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Gun Sales Surge To Record High In 2013; Expect Ammo To Spike In 2014

Tyler Durden's picture


A record 21 million applications were run through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) last year - an 8% increase over 2012 and, as The Washington Times reports, the 11th straight year that the number has risen. Background checks serve as a proxy for the number of gun sales, which soared in the months immediately after Sandy Hook (but notably fell in the last 2 months of 2013 as the Newtown and 'fear of Obama' effect wore off). "2013 was the best year for firearm sales (commercial, domestic) in history — period!" notes the president of the independent firearm owners association, adding that "Ammunition will still be very strong in 2014 as it hasn’t caught up nationally with the demand." This could become a problem since, in what many believe was an attempt to 'crowd out' private buyers, the Homeland Security Department bought 1.6 billion rounds alone.





Via The Washington Times,

Gun records checks, fueled by a post-Newtown boom of gun sales, hit a new high in 2013, and industry analysts expect ammunition to be the big seller this year as consumers catch up to all of those firearms purchases.


More than 21 million applications were run through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System last year, marking nearly an 8 percent increase and the 11th straight year that the number has risen.




2013 was the best year for firearm sales (commercial, domestic) in history — period! That’s true for NH to Hawaii,” said Richard Feldman, president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association in Rindge, N.H. “Ruger alone sold well over one million guns this year.”


Mr. Feldman said to expect the next surge to be in bullets.


Ammunition will still be very strong in 2014 as it hasn’t caught up nationally with the demand,” he said.




“I think there are a few downward pressures acting on the NICS checks,” he said. “Not just the Newtown effect wearing off, but the ‘fear of Obama’ effect wearing off.”


If ammunition does become the focus for gun owners, that could become another hot-button topic.


Last year, the Homeland Security Department had to explain to Congress its contracts to buy up to 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition.


Some gun owners believed the department was trying to crowd out private consumers in the ammunition market, but federal officials said their purchases amounted to a tiny fraction of the ammunition produced every year.




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Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:53 | 4310056 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Got Potassium Iodide? 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:03 | 4310067 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I know hellish scenarios like Syria and the Draft Riots of New York City are unlikely to happen, again, in America.  However, I would rather have and not need, then need and not have.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:08 | 4310102 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is prefer AK-47. Best quality lower receiver is manufacture in Bulgaria, but simple metal bending and drill press can build.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:21 | 4310128 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



For defense of The Motherland, faithful comrade h_h prefers bomb-proof, magazine-fed, gas piston, Made in America, .308 battle rifle with effective range up to and beyond 800 meters.

Hadji will drop his tink-tink AK for a boom-boom FAL, especially with an optic, every time.

The difference between guns and women is that guns don't mind it if you get another one.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:25 | 4310151 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Top ten I stole from some unsuspecting hinky website:

#10. You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

#9. You can keep one gun at home and have another for when you're on the road.

#8. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he will probably let you try it out a few times.

#7. Your primary gun doesn't mind if you keep another gun for a backup.

#6. Your gun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

#5. A gun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

#4. Guns function normally every day of the month.

#3. A gun doesn't ask , "Do these new grips make me look fat?"

#2. A gun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a gun is favored over a woman....



Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:48 | 4310209 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

All true! Guns also never say you use too much of the closet for gun storage.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:31 | 4310710 Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

The "gun scare" of 2013 made the one back in '08/'09 look like a joke.

I would be very, very surprised if the number of NICS checks in 2014 is higher than 2013...unless of course there is another "scare" of some sort.  I just think "most" of the people who were going to buy have already done so...

Re assault rifles and parts - now is a very good time to buy IMHO.  A lot of dealers/distributors are hurting for sales...and there are a bunch of good quality spare parts floating around now...but there is also a TON of crap - be careful and stick to quality manufacturers.

If you pick and choose properly, you can put together a quality AR for like $600 right now (if you can build it yourself or know someone who can).

Re ammo - it's pretty amazing.

Yeah, some stuff has come down in price and is readily available (like 7.62x39)...but decent brass-cased .223/5.56 and 9 mm, for example, are still pretty pricey...

...and .22LR is still through the roof and hard to get.  I'm still seeing 500 round boxes of it (basic plinking stuff) going for over 10 cents per round.  Before this last scare, I was buying Blazer .22LR (which is pretty darn good for bulk stuff) for under 3 cents per round.

I know I went nuts a few years ago, but I still say my guns/ammo are the only things I own that I know will always be worth something - you just gotta try NOT to buy at the absolute worst time.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:53 | 4310736 Manthong
Manthong's picture

1 minute.. not likely, but great theatrics.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:36 | 4310950 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I was going to buy healthcare.....but then I got a flyer from Cabelas in the mail.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 06:05 | 4310816 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Don't if this has been said here before....

Hillary and all the other anti gun politicos have shot themselves in the foot [pun intended and if only it were true!]  by trying to ban and confiscate firearms and thus greatly increasing the number of gun owners in this country


I seriously doubt it!   There's probably more than half the households in this country that own firearms now because of these libtards trying to ban guns. So it looks like Hitlery dorsn't have a chance.

BTW,  That's a H&K 93 .556 in the top photo.  It has the "roller delayed bow back" breach so there's no gas tube just like the H&K MP-5   They get really filthy cause the chambers are fluted to allow more gas against the breach but they're super easy to take down (one pin) and clean.  They're heavier than an AR and I'd say the above rifle with the scope is well over nine pounds.  No.. make that more like over 10 pounds with that stupid big scope!

Then again that could be a H&K 91 in 7.62x51 so it's even heavier!

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:56 | 4310990 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

I wouldn't count on that line of logic, HB.

The problem with gun sales is that too many of them are to gun owners instead of non-gun owners.  Most of those gun sales over the past year were to panicked gun owners, not newbees.  I forget what the stats are (they're not very accurate anyway), but the average gun owner owns more guns than just one.  The average is, IIRC, somewhere around four with many gun owners owning many more than that.  Gun owners are the most insecure, easily panicked people on Earth when it comes to their 2nd A rights.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:38 | 4311292 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

I feel like you just described me personally.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:58 | 4311366 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I know at least one neighbor who stepped-up last year.  This year he's getting #2 and a CCW.  

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 09:45 | 4311123 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I'm very particular with powders I used for loading long range and, the two I use for my big boomers still can't be found anywhere.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:55 | 4310226 chubbar
chubbar's picture


In about 60 days, Daemon Defense, LLC will be in production for .22 cal suppressors. Followed quite rapidly with .223 and .308 suppressors. These are going to be relatively low priced because they are not going to be designed for 20K rounds but for 5K rounds. You'll still need the NFA 3 tax stamp though. These will have all the functionality of the 1K priced suppressors but will sell for about $300ish.

We also make specialty rifles as indicated on the website. If you are in the Chatham, NH area you can also attend a tactical weapons training class or two in order to brush up on your shooting skills (run by spec ops guys)! We are a "freedom friendly" facility with multiple types of automatic weapons to fire as well as handgun sales and accessories. Mention you are a ZH'er when you come!

End of Public service and self service message!

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:33 | 4310352 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

.308 is nice imo compared to the .223. Most Vietnam Vets I know cursed the .223 as being too light in the jungle...bullets easily deflected by twigs. The  only drawback to the 308s is the ammo is much heavier if you need to carry alot of it for some reason.

I'd be interested to hear other opinions.


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:01 | 4310438 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Depends on what you are using it for, as you listed the ups and downs of both. The 308 will punch through barriers and retain its energy a lot further and better than a 5.56. However, the guns, especially an FAL are a lot for expensive, plus you are going to pay a good bit more to the ammo, mags, etc. it comes down to budget and what you are going to use it for. You can pick up a decent, but bare bones AR for 700 or so. Spend another 300, and you can have half a dozen good mags and 500 rounds of ammo for around 1k.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:52 | 4310735 Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture


...but I still say if someone wants to pick up a rifle just to have/just in case/for SHTF/etc., etc., the best place to start is with something that shoots 7.62x39 - e.g., a "quality" (i.e., a real) AKM/AK-47 or a SKS.

You can pick up one of those Yugo O-PAPs that CAI imports right now for like $500 bucks...and they are legit Yugo AKs (in fact, I may grab one or two in the near future)...and you can probably find a lightly used SKS for like $300-$350.

Don't get me wrong, I've got my share of .223/5.56 ARs...

Re .308 - I still don't think there is a good, reasonably lightweight semi-auto out there...UNLESS you want to pony up for a SCAR 17 (with a dealer price of $2500)...

...and even then, you still have the problem with the price of the ammo...and any spare parts (IF you can find them).

Yeah, there are other quality semi-auto .308s out there (e.g., some "AR-type," FALs, PTR-91s, FN ARs, etc.), but damn - they are all beefy as hell.

...and the .308 AR-type rifle thing is still a big cluster&@(& with respect to parts interchangeability.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 03:48 | 4310761 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

There's always 6.8 SPC...although ammo remains expensive.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:03 | 4311385 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I'm seriously thinking about a 5.45 upper for my AR (a "real" round for close to the current price of .22LR and no conversion/crap in the receiver issues) and a .300 Blackout upper for a new "pistol" build.  (WA CCWs only apply to pistols - I thinking I'd keep an AR "pistol" w/standard long buffer tube in the car/truck).

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:09 | 4311407 g speed
g speed's picture

unless your in a suppressing fire type situation you don't need an sar-- IMHO find a good to fair Rem 700 long action at the gun show and put a glass stock and a barrel from a gun catalog on it chambered for 30-06 --get a good variable 9 power scope--and a match trigger.  spend the rest of your Christmas money on a "O" press and some redding dies, some cartrige prep supplies, 500 cases and 3000 168gr serria match bullets, a couple of pounds of H 1000 and 3000 large rifle primers. and learn the rifle, the ammo and how it shoots under differing conditions-- just saying.       

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 12:49 | 4311807 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Just don't try to clear any buildings with the bolt action.


Versus the FAL:


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:17 | 4311046 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

The .308 retains more energy, no doubt, but that doesn't always translate into superior penetration ability.  The 5.56mm M855 with the steel penetrator core actually penetrated the standard military helmet (Warsaw Pact, sheet steel) better at 500 yards than the .308 ball (lead core) in NATO tests.  That's why NATO developed it, to defeat the standard Warsaw Pact infantry body armour.

Ditto for the 7.62x39 as used in the AK.  The standard ball round for the AK47 is of very poor construction and has been demostrated on many occasions to disintigrate completely upon impact with almost any barrier, including window glass!

The important thing is to make sure you have plenty of M855 for your AR, or the ability to handload it yourself.


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 14:21 | 4312176 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

If you can make a head-shot at 500 yards - you can surely make a center-of-mass shot.  At 500+ yards - you're going to have more wind drift with the lighter bullet too (making hits harder unless you've got a spotter).  Regardless of steel helmet penitration - the .308 carries much more energy at longer ranges.  That's why Army and Marine snipers all carry .308s or larger.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:34 | 4310539 gwar5
gwar5's picture

A .308 often turns cover into mere concealment for the bad guy.  


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:40 | 4310551 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

You ain't in the jungle here, boy! And you ain't on offense with your squad. Don't sweat light calibers.


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:11 | 4310472 Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

"You'll still need the NFA 3 tax stamp though."

Fuck the NFA.

The phrase '..shall not be infringed.' says all that needs to be said.


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:55 | 4310739 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Build what you want, don't show it around (hard part), don't take it to a public range, and don't store it in your home with your other guns.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 01:52 | 4310671 Rentier
Rentier's picture

oil filters work nice too. :)

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:50 | 4311551 El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

How does one who lives in an unfriendly gun state like California go about getting a .223 colt barrel threaded to match said suppressor, hypothetically speaking of course?

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 14:22 | 4312181 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 20:33 | 4313613 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Slide good strong flat screwdriver into slots of flash suppressor. Unscrew. Notice threads on barrel.

Bring supressor to good car parts place and buy matching tap and die. Also get there good drill bits for that size tap. Watch YouTubes of how to tap threads.

Anyways, if its really quiet, even a subsonic with a fresh suppressor sounds like the end of the world, and travels quite a distance. Common backround noise like a radio, jet, generator, heavy traffic is nice

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:42 | 4310383 Overfed
Overfed's picture

FALs are good rifles, but for the cost of a decent one with ammo, a guy could outfit an entire platoon with AKs or a squad with ARs.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:06 | 4311393 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Learn to build yourself.  Texas Brigade lists M21/M25 clones for $3500.00.  I've got maybe $1500.00 into mine w/all USGI parts.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4310265 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

You never answered my question.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:20 | 4310445 CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

Yes my goto gun is a SGL-21 with 75 rnd drums and is named Boris. My Saiga 12 is named Natasha with 20 rnd drum. Strange I never named any other guns I own except Boris and Natasha.

Night time defense carbine is Sig 556R with Trijicon ACOG 13a and night vision with infrared laser. Must add suppressor.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:34 | 4310947 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Distance is great (.308), but the vast majority of engagements take place well within 100 yards (60, really), and an AK will hit whatever you need hit at those distances all day long.


As an aside, a close friend of mine took 2 AK rounds to the gut in Vietnam and would not be without an AK. 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 09:19 | 4311050 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Quite a bit cheaper as well, this one is Romanian tho-,-7.62x39,-wood-sto...

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 14:13 | 4312149 dow jones 20000
dow jones 20000's picture


Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:02 | 4310077 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Hope to see you all at GIGANTIC Harrisburg PA show  February 1-9 2014!!

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:23 | 4310138 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Clueless Economist: 

I'm about 30 minutes west of "Linda Thompson's Socialist Paradise", now known as "Papenfuse's Playhouse". I'll probably make it up to the show, and I'm usually at the MAAC gun shows at the Farm show complex; Are you on PAFOA at all?  

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:57 | 4310425 Pinworm
Pinworm's picture
must be streaker69
Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:09 | 4310689 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  I would love to see the real Paul Krugman there.  I would probably beat his ass and test out one of the knives at the show.  Send him back to Princeton in a bag.


Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:06 | 4310096 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It's too late to disarm US citizens.  When TSHTF, criminals will quickly learn to get in line for fear the cops won't save them. God bless America and long live the Republic.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:27 | 4310160 john39
john39's picture

I'm not so certain that they actually want us disarmed...  look at Syria, Iraq and similar countries.  The idea is to create chaos...  pit one group against another...  destroy countries through civil war  (ie, urban black vs. rural white).   the sociopaths in control lack numbers.  the rule through cunning and evil.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:53 | 4310222 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

They have been working that angle for a long time. Black vs white, men vs women, old vs young and lately straight vs gay. They rule not simply through being cunning and evil but only (ONLY) becuase they control the money. If we can put a stop to their control of money we can beat them.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4310253 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You're right. Just replace "they" with "progressives" and you'll be spot on.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:31 | 4310283 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Actually I would replace "they" not with Progressives but with the Jesuits and their associated groups of influence of Freemasons and Knights of Columbus, B'nai B'rith, Shriners, etc. The progressives (and their ideological counterparts in the Repub party) are wings of the same bird. And they are just clerks sent to collect a grocery bill.

Bonus cut - Aaron Russo. Jesuits not implicated but they are the assholes behind the trouble.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:46 | 4310376 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I like Karen Hughes, but progressivism is a socialist ideology of slow growing statism that was decided upon 100+ years ago during the progressive era.  It's outcome is here now, whether you admit it or not.  I already know that there is no difference between the modern Repub and Democrat establishment parties.  But don't get stuck on group labels, the new Pope for example leans towards being a social justice/liberation theology progressive.  That's why the left suddenly loves him(for now anyway), even though he's "opposed" to abortion and gay marriage.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:00 | 4310241 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Law abiding citizens in those countries you mentioned DO NOT have the right to own weapons, they are at the mercy of gov protection or at the mercy of organized gangs.  The sociopaths in the US tried very hard but couldn't fully take away our right to self defense.  These socipaths may be cunning and evil but they're just a handful of cowards and will be exposed for who they are.  

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:21 | 4310305 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Those sociaopaths that surprisingly make up the majority of Congress & Senate will be the FIRST ones targeted when the shit hits the fan. Regretably since they are cowards the first battles will most likely be against their paid 'Blackwater' escort services.

Now WE can say if you're not with us, you're part of the problem. And mean it.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:44 | 4310390 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"These socipaths may be cunning and evil but they're just a handful of cowards and will be exposed for who they are."

Hey, good 'on target' discussion tonight.

Every tree is known by it's fruit. Vee haf records in zee NSA zat vill tell us all vee needs to know abouts all zee traitors to za Republic.

Da! They are leaving Wash, Dc now jumping ship fast.

There are a lot of mraps preparing in bases on the Colorado/NewMexico border for the big city warfare.

Something wicked comes this way.


Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:48 | 4310399 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

John 39

100% right, when they want total devistation they will come after the food! That my friend is when the real SHTF. All the guns will simply hurry things along :-)

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:24 | 4310314 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

bubba's bang bang beer and brat brigade... you loot, we shoot

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:53 | 4310417 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Don't underestimate Bubba boy!

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:10 | 4310104 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Nice weapon.

I went totally low-buck on my last purchase.  I bought a Hi-Point 4595 Carbine.  A WHAT??  WHAT THE HELL IS THAT??

It's the most cheap-ass .45 ACP Carbine money can buy (shoots 45 cal pistol ammo).  A total pile of shit that happens to shoot just fine and costs..... $335 brand spanking new!  They can't keep them in stock and I can see why.  It could be the best $300 gun I've ever bought.  The 9mm version is the most common and certainly the cheapest to buy ammo for (using .45ACP you can spend more on ammo than you did for the gun over a weekend!).  I'm just more of a 45 cal kinda guy, so shoot me (metaphorically speaking).  

Just ditch the factory sights (they're junk) and put a sub-$100 red-dot on it.  If you can't figure out how to have boat-loads of fun with this little cheapie, you may have a brain disorder.

Sorry, but I ain't worth shit past 100 Yds. since the old eyeballs started going downhill.  A 100 Yd. Gun for a 100 yd. shooter.  For cheap.  That was the idea, anyway.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:50 | 4310213 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Got the 9mm version for $165 three years ago. Got a cheap laser sight and a couple extra 15 round mags to boot. Wouldn't trust the thing past 25 yards but it has zero recoil and gets lead downrange.  Have a wide assortment of rifles, shotguns and handguns. Plenty of ammo.

I'm set to go, have to join forces down the line. The strife will start internally, the US will not be able to quell everything.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4310252 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Thinking about producing a .45 cal suppressor for this baby. Do you think buyers would be interested?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:33 | 4310350 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

If it's decent quality and priced right, hell yes!

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:00 | 4310432 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Would be inline with my other suppressors. I don't make the high quality ones because the metal is hard to work with (and pricey) and while they last a lot longer, I don't feel they fit the niche I'm trying to fill.

Look, if I put out a suppressor that works well for around 5K rounds, and costs around $300ish to buy (not including NFA Tax), You can become proficient at using it and have plenty of rounds left over to use it tactically. You don't just bring it to the range and run box after box of ammo through it for drill. You use it sparingly to become proficient and then put it in your bag of tricks for use when you need it. Hell, buy two, you'd still be ahead of the game.

It's a cheap date that can become useful under the right circumstances. But if you want something to run 20K rounds through, this isn't the product.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:00 | 4310431 Osmium
Osmium's picture

I have one as well in 45.  I have an old Marlin camp 9 that I really like and wanted something in 45. 


And you are correct, the Hi point is tons of fun.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 05:38 | 4310811 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture  has lots of Hi-Points for under $200.  There are plenty of other dealers, too.  Where can you get a reliable .45 for that??  Hi-Point fills a wide open niche.  Anyone can afford some home defense hardware for that price.


Get one, find a range [they're everywhere], get familiar with what you're shooting.  Bulk .45 ammo costs only about 40¢ a round, and will stop any intruder.  You don't need hollow points with a .45.


Best of all: having your '2nd Amendment right' in your hand will radicalize you. Suddenly the Constitution will mean something; other parts of it will become real, too — like the only currency being gold or silver, etc.


Get radicalized!  It will make you a better American.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:26 | 4310931 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Those are their pistols.  These are the carbines for sale (from the same site):

You'll notice a lot of "out of stock" next to them.  This is pretty much everywhere in the retail outlets.  They can't build them fast enough.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:21 | 4310137 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

A little late Horseman.  You have been recommending the little brother for years now.  Glad you now like the FAL, but they are now unavailable except for the uber-wealthy who can order from DS Arms.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:30 | 4310166 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



FN PS90 is still my choice for GBH Bag.  To save money, anyone can build a FAL from imported parts. 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:19 | 4310698 Freddie
Freddie's picture

A while ago - you could get the Austrian STG 58 parts and DSA was building STG 58s for a bit less than their current FALs. You can only find em used now.


These PTR 91 based on the German G3's are pretty good and reasonable.

There is a YouTube guy named Maine Prepper or something who is ex-military and he said he was going to switch away from AR platform to I think these PTRs.  

Lewis Machine LMT is the bomb but expensive:

The supply of all sorts of rifles has caught up to demand. Ammo is better now too.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:40 | 4310188 seek
seek's picture

From personal experience, they're hell on scopes/scope mounts, tough as both the ACOG and the DSA mount are, the damn thing breaks the locktite loose every time I shoot it.

Irons are fine. It's pretty clear when originally designed the FN-FAL really didn't have optics in mind.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:58 | 4310232 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I have had zero trouble.  Blue loc-tite 242 on screws.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:08 | 4310268 seek
seek's picture

Do you know what your torqued the screws at?

I'm using DSA's integral mount (they machine in a well for the ACOG into the rail mount cover that replaces the original FAL sheetmetal one) and seriously it's a running joke with my shooting friends that I only bring the FAL to test locktite applications.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:36 | 4310361 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



IDK.  Maybe you are running too much gas for the ammo? 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:41 | 4311516 Overfed
Overfed's picture

+1 on dialing in the gas system. Sounds like it's beating itself up.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:31 | 4310345 Magnix
Magnix's picture

Im selling my IMBEL FAL rifle on


Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:39 | 4310373 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture


You living in  your high rise condo ever shot any of this shit? Outside of xbox!

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:09 | 4310470 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Love the item in question, hate hate hate DSArms. They have NO customer service; I could tell you the story but maybe in person some time. Avoid dealing with those shitheads at ALL costs believe me.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:16 | 4310489 Bernanke'sDaddy
Bernanke'sDaddy's picture

Who are the 3 DHS shills who downvoted this post?

Awesome rifle, too bad it won't fly in CA. If you're looking for good ammo deals, I'd suggest

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:22 | 4311237 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

i was under the impression that all you needed was a bullet button, for the magazine, to make them legal in cali.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:19 | 4310500 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Love the Tritium scope. Looking to get one.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 06:53 | 4310846 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

FN makes exceptional tactical rifles. When the SCAR first came out I said to myself "overpriced fad".... until I shot one at the range.

Shot a 5.56 NATO, and thought I was plinking out of a pellet gun. And accurate as hell too.

To this day the battle rifle version (7.62x51) is still on my wish list. Problem is that a lot of nice guns are on my wish list so it will be a while.

Next up is a Beretta Silver Pigeon 12 GA over/under. Because Joe Biden says its more effective at home defense (with just two lousy round capacity) than an FN SCAR!/sarcasm off.


Seriously, I need a two-barrel birding gun and the Pigeon is highest on the list. If anyone can recommend a good over/under for under 2 large, then please let me know.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:46 | 4310971 double 007
double 007's picture

sweet rig i'm jealous

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:49 | 4310041 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

Fuck you Andrew Cuomo.  Fuck you Dannel Malloy.  Fuck you Gov Moonbeam.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:58 | 4310073 USA USA
USA USA's picture

I could not believe that CA's Gov. Brown actually vetoed several anti gun bills bassed by the anti gun legislature.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:24 | 4310147 JR
JR's picture

Gun rights groups had threatened to sue if the California legislature's semi-automatic weapons ban became law. There’s a limit to the indulgence of the National Rifle Association. And Brown knows when he’s wandered close to the fence.

As Clint Montfort, attorney with Michel and Associates, West Coast counsel for the National Rifle Association, said:  "That was, without a doubt, the most egregious piece of anti-gun legislation ever brought to a governor for his signature.”

When it’s necessary, Brown dons his politician hat and takes off his tyrant cap.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:45 | 4310200 seek
seek's picture

I think Brown realized if it was challenged, not only would it go down in flames in court, but it'd probably drag other legislation along for the ride.

That those bills passed the legislature shows just how far CA has gone. I know of several people that relocated to my state (AZ) solely due to these POS bills passing.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:39 | 4310957 devo
devo's picture

regarding california


Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:50 | 4310042 Canada01
Canada01's picture

Almost done building my M1 Garand with my RGR profits.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:25 | 4310149 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Then you will be perfectly prepared to take on the Japanese or Germans circa 1942.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:24 | 4310315 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

For calling yourself a helluva engineer, you seem to know dick about rifle rounds.

"Greatest battle implement ever devised"

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:14 | 4310482 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


I will take the Garand when the shit gets thick any time. Fast, accurate, easy to maintain, tough as hell.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 09:23 | 4311061 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

There are still Springfield service grades available from the CMP for 625 bucks-

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:50 | 4310581 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Then you will be perfectly prepared to take on the Japanese or Germans circa 1942.

Haven't met anyone who wants to be shot with one yet...

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 01:07 | 4310610 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Most people will quit talking shit about lever actions and even rolling blocks when one is leveled at them, and they're older than M-1s.  Those older rifles may not be as good as an M-4 for up close high speed shit, but they'll still ruin your day in a hurry.  Besides, for long range, I'll take an M-1 over an M-4, and I while I would prefer to avoid any shoot out, if I do have to get into one, I'd prefer to be a long damn way away from the other guy. 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 14:55 | 4312253 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Deuce Stevens kicking ass with tow SAA revolvers, a lever-action rifle, and a double bbl shotgun.

Another good shooter where you can see what he's doing better.

Nice tutorial

PS  I would never feel sorry for myself with a .30-30 lever-action Winchester in my hand (or even a Marlin in .357).

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:27 | 4310329 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

M1s are mighty fine rifles.  I have two myself.  I did shoot the barrel out on one though. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:50 | 4310044 PubliusTacitus
Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:25 | 4310524 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

The last lead smelting factory in the US is closing down. The EPAs unelected apparatchiks came up with some new environmental regs that, due to the cost of modifying their factory, priced them out of business, so aside from battery recycled, we are pretty much reliant on imports now. That's gonna cause another squeeze or jump in price eventually.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:19 | 4311444 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Then where's the new wave of lead-free alternative ammo?  I'd love to stock-up on piles of that shit for practice shooting at my farm - but not at today's prices.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 01:06 | 4310607 NOTfromSanFrancisco
NOTfromSanFrancisco's picture



Good article. Thank you...

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:55 | 4310053 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"in what many believe was an attempt to 'crowd out' private buyers, the Homeland Security Department bought 1.6 billion rounds alone."

That's what I thought at first.  I have come to believe it was more of a warning: "We'll shoot your ass dead if you oppose us, no matter how many of you there are, even if it's millions.  DON'T EVEN THINK OF RISING UP AGAINST YOUR GOVERNMENT.  YOU'LL LOSE.  YOU'LL DIE.  DON'T EVEN TRY IT."

Which, if I'm right, is pretty damned weak.  Smells of fear.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:30 | 4310336 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Sounds plausable.  As for the ammo shortages, there's also a lot of "greater fool" shit going on.  People will go into one of the local stores here and purchas everything that they can, then sell it online at 2x-4x the price. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:43 | 4310385 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Which, if I'm right, is pretty damned weak.  Smells of fear

Damn rights. I got dibs on Feinstein & her hubby. I've always wanted to visit CA again.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:11 | 4310477 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Psyops. FBI did the same type things to the anti-war protesters to try and fuck with them and scare them out of showing up for protests. They'd go to homes of student leaders to "interview" them just to shake them up and unnerve them, knowing they'd spread the word like wildfire to other students. 




Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:53 | 4310054 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture


Phishing is the act of attempting to acquire information such as usernames, passwords, and credit card details (and sometimes, indirectly, money) by masquerading as a trustworthy entity in an electronic communication.[1][2] Communications purporting to be from popular social web sites, auction sites, banks, online payment processors or IT administrators are commonly used to lure unsuspecting public. Phishing emails may contain links to websites that are infected with malware.[3] Phishing is typically carried out by email spoofing[4] or instant messaging,[5] and it often directs users to enter details at a fake website whose look and feel are almost identical to the legitimate one. Phishing is an example of social engineering techniques used to deceive users,[6] and exploits the poor usability of current web security technologies.[7] Attempts to deal with the growing number of reported phishing incidents include legislation, user training, public awareness, and technical security measures.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:53 | 4310218 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Right.  As if there are not already thousands of firearm blogs and discussion boards with millions of people posting and commenting on gun porn. 

FAL files?

Who was the Nazi official that said that the fear of keeping lists is more powerful than actually keeping lists? 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:15 | 4310289 seek
seek's picture

Not to mention given the revelations there's little doubt the NSA has parked a monitor on the NICS for probably years. That's going to be way better than anything derived from even gun forums.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:36 | 4310364 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

any recommendations for a defense shotgun? Prferably an semi-auto one that is reliable?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:50 | 4310409 seek
seek's picture

I'm not a fan of semi-auto shotguns myself, since you can get such great deals on pumps like the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500.

That said the people I know that have a preference for SA shotguns seem to go for the Benelli M4, which is also US military issue. It's really damn pricey.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:48 | 4311329 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

If you are just looking for a home defense weapon, and you're on a budget, i recommend the Mossberg Maverick 88. It's american made, less than $200. After all, if its just for home protection and you don't plan on going out in the field with it why spend more? The quality here is good enough for the task. And finally, the most important reason, if you have to use your weapon against an intruder IT WILL BE SEIZED as part of the investigation. Depending on which state you reside in, it could be held for more than 1 year.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:23 | 4311459 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870.  I love my 870P.  Had an old Viet Nam style under-load/under-eject Savage that was pretty cool way back too.  IMHO, the Remmy is built better than the Mossy FWIW.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:21 | 4310508 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

I don't like semi-auto, as a pump can cycle a misfire quicker. (I can cycle my pump pretty fast...) This is my SHTF gun. Nice, water/saltwaterproof, and pretty simple. Add some tactical items, and your ready to go. It's a beast. and it will survive anything. One tip on shotguns in the field, I put a piece of tape over the end of the barrel to keep debris/water out, and blowing the barrel. If you fire a round, the tape just pops off. 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:35 | 4310713 Freddie
Freddie's picture

One of my biggest fears is we have a populace armed to the teeth.  Most of these gun owners with rifles bought because they fear the police state.  My concern is so many people are armed that nothing with ever be done to try to restore The Constitution.  The elites will just keep pissing on all of us.  

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:55 | 4310061 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

I reload, I'm well stocked and I can cast bullets and make black powder.

What , me worry?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:08 | 4310063 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

of course the closure of the Doe Run Lead Smelter in Herculaneum, Missouri due to ridiculous and transparently political motivations in the guise of "environmental " concerns will send the price of Pb for ammunition soaring with the only available lead now coming from 1)recycled products such as batteries and 2) China! As a result my recent personal preferences for metal have necessarily been focused soley on the acquisition of adequate supplies of various calibers though mostly for varmint control. haha.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:32 | 4310346 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

I debunked this a long time ago... keep researching

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:56 | 4310064 konputa
konputa's picture

Right there has been almost no ammo available for 2+ years. When the fuck is supply going to catch up with demand? I'm surprised some big ammo manufacturer hasn't said "fuck you" to the government contracts and commited to just selling to Americans. I would think there would be a powerful marketing message and profits in that idea.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:36 | 4310349 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

If you reload, get one of the older (#10 or #11, IIRC,) Speer manual and go with the blue dot loads for 357.  I personally like the 140s, but I did load up some 110s for my Blackhawk a while back, and chronographed them at 1950fps.  Those older manuals are not lawyer friendly.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4310257 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I've seen a ton of people buying up old batteries for the lead. The tire balancing guys have a steady stream of offers for their lead weights. The junk yard guys are getting a ton of interest too.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:44 | 4310388 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

I've seen it too. "For casting fishing weights. "


Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:05 | 4310457 gwar5
gwar5's picture

An old boat keel lying around in a marina will give you plenty of lead. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:55 | 4310423 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"I'm surprised some big ammo manufacturer hasn't said "fuck you" to the government contracts and commited to just selling to Americans."

Ask, who owns the ammunition companies mr bush?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:57 | 4310066 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

Yep...another one of those unintended consequences from stellar governing: the world's most successful small arms salesman:


     O             B           A              M               A

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:03 | 4310084 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

just in time for my new avatar.  check out that 6" colt python between my wife's legs.     

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:15 | 4310098 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

dude I'd be a little worried if my wife had a 6 inch cock between her legs...I prefer a vagina personally.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:18 | 4310124 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

it takes more than 6 to satisfy her.  that's why she's with me.  and seriously look at your avatar then look at mine.  i spent new years getting fucked up with my wife at home and taking pictures like that.  then watching some phenomenal Viv Thomas lesbian porn (her request).  whatd you do?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:29 | 4310150 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

my... a wee bit defensive at my silly joke?  Someone seems to be a tad insecure?

I'm very happy you have "more than 6 to satisfy her" and spent new years "getting fucked up" and took pictures and watched "phenomenal lesbian porn(her request)".

I so envy your impressive manhood!

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:30 | 4310163 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

well, not really.  i just like to brag.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:35 | 4310178 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

thats fine, but humility is the best policy for me.   Best of luck to you fellow freedom lover

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:31 | 4310711 kurt
kurt's picture

Hey, dude, I think that guy has a gun.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:09 | 4310271 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

You seem quite humble, Smacky. Be careful mixing vaginas, cocks and guns. Lady might start stroking and fire off a shot, accidentally.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:48 | 4310401 luckylogger
luckylogger's picture

It is cool........

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 09:24 | 4311064 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

i spent new years getting fucked up with my wife at home and taking pictures like that.

It didn't happen unless you post them.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:06 | 4310095 esum
esum's picture

Jesus owned an AK-47.......... but didnt use it 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:06 | 4310099 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The facts are getting scary.  TPTB seem to know what's coming but their scared because they don't know just how it will shake out--no one does--but it won't be nice and they may, finally, be held accountable.  They would rather see millions die than be held accountable.  Armed conflict is a catastrophe but it does happen and people seem to smell it coming.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:21 | 4310306 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I read this is mostly an indication the army of underlings (the monkey fuckers who serve TPTB) getting nervous that they MAY not get the ass cover they expected. So maytbe TPTB are not nervous but the assholes that TPTB depend on ARE getting nervous.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:09 | 4310101 mightybillfuji
mightybillfuji's picture

The ammo shortages are pretty much over anywhere. ..check gunbot and prices are dropping and any popular caliber is available from many places at nearly pre newton prices.

The whole world ships ammo into the US market now. I regularly buy Swiss, Korean , Russian, Australian, Mexican, Israeli, various EU nation suppliers,  the new reman companies poping up all over, etc ammos at normal retailers. Seems to me the whole planet is selling ammo into the US market. There's just no way there can be a shortage with everyone knowing now to keep a big stockpile at all times and the whole capacity of the earth shipping here.

I dont know a single person who couldnt maintain their normal target shooting rates from their personal stocks for months if not never used to be like that.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:26 | 4310152 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Go shop for a few bricks of .22LR for the range.  It isn't everywhere.  It's hardly anywhere.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:57 | 4310235 seek
seek's picture

Yup, almost impossible to come by, and delivery keeps changing. I jumped on Midway when they had some cases of CCI available for backorder with a planned delivery date of January, 2014. That's since been updated to November. I haven't been able to buy case-level quantities of 22LR since O won in 2008, with significant effort made to do so. Fortunately I've been able to grab bricks here and there, but availability is nowhere near what is was 5 years ago.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:24 | 4310316 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

There is a line every Monday at 9am at every store around me. I gave up on 22 plinking to protect my stash and just started buying what is available, Plently of 40 cal and 223.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:05 | 4310903 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

Every Monday morning I join the crowd of 8 to 10 middle-aged whites waiting for the doors at Academy in N. Houston to open to politely and single-file make our way back to the ammo counter to accept our daily ration of .22LR. All other calibers are available. .22LR is the only caliber that still has 100 round or 1 box purchasing limits. .22 short and .22 long do not have limits any more but they are just as hard to find. Academy does not price gouge and have prices better than internet. I used to use CCI Greentag for Appleseed events but it is no longer available except by individuals on online auctions. You can still get Rem Golden Bullet at Academy for $0.04/rd, crappy load but available.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:51 | 4310733 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I saw some pristine and new Danish military .223/5.56.  Gorgeous looking stuff - a bit like Danish women.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:09 | 4310105 JR
JR's picture

The crisis heats up. Funny how gun sales heat up as well…


2014-Crisis in Dollar Will Trigger Inflation – John Williams |USA | Greg Hunger

January 7, 2014 -- Economist John Williams thinks 2014 will mark the beginning of hyperinflation.  Williams contends, “You are going to see, early on, a crisis in the dollar that will start to trigger the inflation . . . as the inflation picks up, that’s going to savage the economy, which is already in a depression.  It never recovered.”  Forget what you have heard about the so-called recovery.  Williams says, “The consumer is in trouble.  There is nothing happening to turn the economy around.”  The weak economy is bad news for the dollar.  According to Williams, “Anything that would suggest deficit deterioration here, and a weak economy would do that, will have a devastating impact on the dollar.”  And if foreigners start selling some of the 12 trillion U.S. dollar based assets, such as bonds and currency, things will turn ugly fast.  Williams says, “We’re dependent on the rest of the world continuing to go along with us and continue to support the dollar.  That’s not going to happen.”  So, the big question everyone is asking is when will the buck take a hit in value?  Williams says the dollar will likely begin selling off before the middle of this year, and he adds, “It’s really going to be a currency panic . . . when the fundamental selling pressure really starts to pick up, when the selling gets heavy . . . in turn, the weakness will be seen in a spike in oil prices and a spike in gasoline prices.”  Williams says there will be a panic out of the dollar and he predicts, “Once you see a massive sell-off here, I see the game as being over.”  Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with John Williams of

QUOTE: Ernest Hemmingway: “The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency ; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.”

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:24 | 4310143 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Overall supply is better than last year, but I still have a tough time finding any .22 L ammo without taking out a second mortgage. Supply may be improving, but I'm not seeing one bit of an overall easing of prices, and I buy a lot of ammo from several different sources.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:03 | 4310236 Mongoose
Mongoose's picture

Appears to be the same regarding 22LR in my area as well. 9mm, .380, etc are easier find now days. Is the 22LR shortage because the heavy duty preppers are still planning on it (.22LR) being the the next currency?                  Nothing against prepping but some folks take it to the twighlight zone dimension.

Back to killin' snakes

Spelling edit

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 08:10 | 4310909 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

.22LR is cheap, effective in the right hands, you can carry 1000 rds on your person

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:24 | 4310146 DrDre
DrDre's picture

That will solve the problem of exessive longevity which has been plaguing our retirement and healthcare systems....

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:34 | 4310175 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

When Sandy Hook happened, I knew the legislature of CT would do their liberal thing and begin going after guns. I began planning my egress in February. It is now illegal to have guns unregistered for the most part there and they  will not stop there. I moved to Southern Ohio this past Fall. I hear the volley of long rifles being readied a few miles away on the weekends and it is the sweet sound of freedom. I will not allow myself to be hindered in the protection of my family. The cops will not save me should someone enter my house illegally. My Winchester will. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 22:49 | 4310212 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Ditto. You would have loved the echoing river valley here at the strike of the New Year.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 23:02 | 4310247 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

It's beautiful there, but I will not live under their foolish rules. 

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 00:40 | 4310554 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Southern east, central, or west? I live in south-west, and Ohio is not a bad place. The weather is fickle....

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