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Guest Post: How I Renounced My US Citizenship And Why (Part 1)

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Doug Casey's International Man,

(Editor's note: The following is a firsthand story of how and why a former US citizen—who kindly shared this information on condition of anonymity—decided to renounce his US citizenship. It's packed with practical advice and priceless insights into this momentous decision. Whether or not you take the ultimate step of renunciation, I believe you will find value from the author's experiences.)

By Citizen of the World

Having evolved philosophically in my adulthood to a fairly hardcore libertarian worldview, I had read the writings of people like Doug Casey, which encouraged people even some decades ago to take concrete steps to internationalize themselves. Not just "talk the talk," but to actually "walk the walk."

My professional career offered me the chance to travel abroad quite a bit, so it was not too difficult for me to begin taking baby steps to internationalize.

I rented an apartment in one of the Asian cities that I frequently visited. A few years later, I made my first overseas real estate purchase of a small apartment in another Asian city, followed by several more in the next few years.

By this time, I was managing to spend about 2/3 of each year outside the US—you could say that I waded into the pool, rather than just diving in.

The passage of the first of the three recent "exit tax" laws by Congress in 1996 had alerted me to how high-stakes the US government regarded full expatriation to be—and inclined me toward doing so.

I reasoned that if they were that anxious to discourage people from leaving, it might well be time to seriously consider doing so.

Still, for about another decade, I wasn't in a good position financially or logistically to do so, although I did begin seriously collecting more information about residency abroad, second passports, etc.

Shortly after my financial and logistical impediments cleared up, Ron Paul began achieving astounding success in the early phases of the 2008 presidential campaign. Encouraged once more at the prospect of there perhaps being a chance to turn things around after all, I put my international plans on hold and devoted nearly the entire first three quarters of the year to his campaign.

But the unremitting ferocity with which mainstream Republicans opposed our every effort led me to renew my efforts to abandon the sinking ship.

Another imperative for me has been the maxim "silence implies consent"—that is, by not acting (especially now that I was in a reasonably good position to do so) to separate myself from the manifest evils of the regime in DC, I would continue granting it my consent.

So, believing at that time (incorrectly, as it turns out) that you had to have another passport before you could give up US citizenship, I settled on the economic citizenship of the Commonwealth of Dominica, which is the quickest legitimate and least-expensive way to clear that hurdle.

I engaged a US-based consultant/agent to undertake the process of applying for Dominica's program—something I definitely recommend.

Even though the agent may not want to hold your hand the whole time or answer every last question you may have, he or she can be quite helpful in navigating any significant rough spots or ambiguities. But be careful: the fees can mount up quickly. Keep in mind that obtaining a second citizenship (so you won't be "stateless" and unable to travel after giving up your US citizenship) and the actual Relinquishment/Renunciation are two distinct phases (there's a third expatriation phase, if you will be a "Covered Expatriate" and have to deal with the "mark to market" exit tax). You'll likely be expected to pay fees to an advisor/agent for each phase, unless you spring for a (much more expensive) "package deal."

Do be careful to choose only a legitimate agency—there are any number of dubious ones offering their "services" on the Internet. If in doubt about one you're considering, you should inquire directly to the government officials of your chosen country whether that agency is in good standing with the officials there.

Initially, it was expected to take about three months to receive the Dominica passport, after all the required documents and preliminaries had been done.

But even as I got those things ready to submit (the required FBI criminal check was routinely quoted as taking up to 12 weeks at that time), the expected approval and completion dates were being pushed out at least several more months.

I had originally considered doing the St. Kitts program, which offered a considerably more useful passport—visa-free entry to all of the EU, as well as to Canada, which is about two dozen more countries than the Dominica passport allows.

So faced with a possibly quite extended delay in getting the Dominica passport and by now having a fair amount of experience in making such an application, I decided to apply for the St. Kitts one as well—and without the additional expense of a consultant/agent.

Since most of the documents and preliminaries I had done for Dominica were also needed for the St. Kitts application, I got the St. Kitts one done much sooner and had everything for it filed about a month after filing for the Dominica one. In the end, the St. Kitts passport was issued about three months before the Dominica one.

With the passport hurdle soon to be cleared, I had to make financial preparations. Not so much on account of the exit tax itself, but much more because of the very punitive, but much less known Section 2801 gift/inheritance tax imposed on all post-expatriation gifts and/or bequests to "US persons" by a "covered" expatriate (which I have the dubious pleasure of being).

[Editor's Note: The term "covered expatriate" refers to the former US citizens who qualify to be stung with the exit tax. See this IRS article for more details.]

Because most of my low-to-mid seven-figure wealth had already been taxed at least once (and also having considerable loss carry-forwards ensuing from the aftermath of the 2008 panic), I was not facing much of an exit tax liability itself.

Once I had the passports in hand, but well before I had finished financial preparations, I made the first of the two visits to a US embassy or consular office abroad required for the actual renunciation process.

On the first visit, you must allow the consular staff to inform (lecture?) you about the "grave" consequences and irrevocability of what you seek to do; and you must assert to them that you understand what you are doing, that you really do intend to do so, and do not expect to retain any rights or privileges of US citizenship.

However, you are not allowed to complete the renunciation process at that first visit. You must go away for at least a short while and then come back on a second appointment, "to be sure you really want to do this."

In my case, the consular official whom I met with on that first visit did not try very much to dissuade me, nor did I have any difficulty convincing her that I had thought about it extensively and knew what I was seeking to do.

Another half-year elapsed before I finished all the required property transfers into irrevocable trusts (to avoid Section 2801 gift/inheritance tax), after which I was finally ready for my actual expatriation appointment.

There are actually two somewhat distinct procedures by which you can give up US citizenship: relinquishment or renunciation. The State Department forms and consular staff procedures are similar, but not identical, for both ways.

Renunciation is the more affirmative way, and may be preferable for that reason alone.

Professional and informal advisors have differing opinions on which is better—and even whether there's any substantive difference at all—apart from the $450 fee now required for a Renunciation filing (no fee at all is currently required for filing a Relinquishment—if one is in a position to choose that route).

There are no differences in IRS/tax consequences, and it's said that the State Department makes no distinction between those who relinquish versus those who renounce.

But the fact remains that there are the two different procedures, and some knowledgeable people do recommend relinquishment (if one's situation permits using that method) instead of renunciation.

Be aware though that pursuing a relinquishment requires the applicant to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the State Department people involved (both in the embassy/consular office and the application reviewers in Washington), that the applicant's "potentially expatriating act" (which is usually the act of obtaining citizenship in another country) was truly done "with the intent to give up US citizenship" at the time of "performing the potentially expatriating act."

In contrast, making a renunciation filing, which involves performing an Oath of Renunciation before a consular officer, provides convincing prima facie evidence of intent to give up US citizenship.

The State Department may reject a renunciation filing only if there's clear evidence that the applicant was under some sort of duress to take the oath, or that the would-be renunciant intends to retain any prerogatives of US citizenship (such as continuing to reside in the US without obtaining any residency visa/permission as an "alien").

Because so much time had elapsed since my first visit, I had to re-do it. Mercifully, the consular staff allowed me to return quite soon for the actual renunciation process.

There are numerous reports of delays of weeks to months in getting appointments (for either or both of the two required visits) at many of the busier embassies. I have personal knowledge of an embassy in a major Asian city requiring a two-week interval between an applicant's first and second renunciation visit regardless of how full or slack its appointment calendar was.

A note about embassy/consular office practices: The expatriation requirements and procedures are stated in fairly thorough detail in in Volume 7, chapter 12 of the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM).

In practice though, each embassy/consular office seems to operate with a fair amount of discretion.

As just one example, FAM explicitly states that an embassy or consular office must allow any US citizen to expatriate who applies there to do so. Yet I was told by consular staff in one major Asian embassy that it refuses to let anyone who is not a legal resident of that country expatriate at that embassy.

Though they're primarily focused on the plight of the many Americans who permanently moved to Canada, the Isaac Brock Society maintains an excellent website. It keeps an extensive—if anecdotally based—log of people's expatriation experiences at various embassies/consular offices around the globe.

The actual process of formally doing the renunciation was straightforward and was conducted without any further hassle or delay at my next appointment.

Stay tuned for the second (and final) part of this story. It has specific details about the renunciation process as well as the author's personal experiences dealing with US officials during and after the process.


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Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:16 | 4321514 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Leave the plantation while you can!

May soon be illegal!

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:32 | 4321526 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

You can just shred all  your id, and claim to be born here without a certificate.


It doesn't make sense to me why you need things like....

-Marriage License (a paper from the government telling you "its ok, you have permission to marry that person")

-Birth Certificate, a paper saying that the government knows who you are and will assign you a social security number endebting you to pay half your working life income to the previous generation (debt slavery certificate)

-Passport, to enter your land-area of birth, the Federal Government acts like it "owns" all the states, meanwhile the only place the Federal Govt actually exists is in some trivial non-important district (D.C.) over-run by prostitutes and banksters , D.C. could slide off into the Ocean and almost no one in the continent would give a rats ass.


The only way you are "free" is if you are "free" from bureaucracy intended to rob you for your entire life-time.


If we are going to have any country at all , any government at all, it should be on the STATE level only!, this way you have a choice of where you can live, under what laws you want to live under.

If you want to live in a state where MarryJ is legal, move to that state, if you want to live in a state where you don't need any paper work to own a gun, move to that state.

And let each state fail or prosper under its own experiment.

Don't force the same failing experiment on all states and deprive Americans of the opportunity to live under the rules and society of their choosing! The entire point of America was supposed to be

-No Laws

-No govt theft

-No High Taxes

-No  B.S.

-A land where you can make it with a little luck and hard-work 

-A land with no stupid shit like patents, trademarks, barriers to entry in markets (free market)....

-No Monopolies

-No Banksters

-No Taxes on property

-No foreign entanglements.


every "point" of being an "american" the entire set of reasons to want to be an "american" have been stripped and eroded away.

The only difference between America and Greece is that America has a stockpile of Nuclear Arms to bully the world with, both societies are failing, because Direct Democracy does not work, only orderly top down Democratic non-intrusive Republics work.


Representative Democracy based on mob rule is a sure-fire way to destroy a society in short-order, you need a very small , limited Republic or society falls apart.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:38 | 4321548 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



Leaving the USA is serious business, and is only for a very few:

1)  Able to speak the language, like the food, etc.

2)  Have sufficient resources already "there" for a comfortable landing

3)  Prepared to STAY there (ie, having had spent AT LEAST three months "there")

4), 5), 6)...


However, if it turns out that you do NOT like your new home, you can just sneak back into the USA over the border and become an illegal alien.  I would THEN choose California or any other "welfare state"!

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:45 | 4321576 malikai
malikai's picture

Leave states, relinquish citizenship.

Return to states under false ID.

Claim Free shit en masse.


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:07 | 4321633 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Anyway to renounce citizenship and REMAIN in the US?

Best of both worlds.   In Soviet America illegals are treated better than citizens.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:02 | 4321931 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Perhaps some day we'll be enlightened like North Korea where life is great and only crazy people want to leave, but even so it is against the law and punishable by death to say anything negative about the country, the system and the leader and likewise to attemtp to leave the wonderful country.  Pelosi, Reid Obummer and Holder look to North Korea as the model for the USA.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:48 | 4322126 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Who do you think has bigger penis? Kim Jong Un or Nancy Pelosi? I think Pelosi. Hillary Clinton plays the submissive role in that relationship, therefore Nancy must be hung like a moose. They use her foreskin as a tarp at Yankee stadium when it rains.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:35 | 4322184 Doña K
Doña K's picture

As long as you have dual citizenship or get a passport without informing anyone you don't need to renounce your citizenship. I know several people with three passports. The US accepts dual citizens.

Example 1. An Israeli or a Dane immigrates to the US and becomes a US citizen. Then he/she marries a South American. By virtue of that marriage he/she has the rights to residency in that country and the path to citizenship. The US does not know of the third.

Example 2. real case: A Brit married to a Japanese visiting the US for a 3 month business trip and had a baby in the US. The baby got a birth certificate from Nebraska. The mom took that to the Japanese consular and received a passport. The dad took the certificate to the UK consular and got a passport and they also got a US passport. The twist here is that the Japanese force you to pick either the Japanese or the US one (when you become 18) since they know your place of birth. The UK passport is still under the radar 


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 03:50 | 4322241 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

But the fact remains that there are the two different procedures, and some knowledgeable people do recommend relinquishment (if one's situation permits using that method) instead of renunciation.


RENUNCIATION.  The act by which a person abandons a right acquired without transferring it to another.


RELINQUISHMENT.  A forsaking, abandoning, renouncing, or giving over a right.


- Black's Law Dictionary, 4th Edition

Looks like they get something with one but not the other, hence, the tax.  But basically it implies your U.S. soul is worth $450.

The State Department may reject a renunciation filing only if there's clear evidence that the applicant was under some sort of duress to take the oath, or that the would-be renunciant intends to retain any prerogatives of US citizenship (such as continuing to reside in the US without obtaining any residency visa/permission as an "alien").

Bullshit.  I can renunciate my United States citizenship and revert back to my state citizenship by birth.  I'm a native Californian, without the United States (the corporate).

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 06:53 | 4322349 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Gift taxes are for those who don't have enough balls to go to the casino! Enjoy your trip fellow.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:47 | 4322729 PT
PT's picture

What happens if you just "lose" all your ID and claim refugee status in a different country?  How does that work?

Is it hard to get a second passport / citizenship as an Israeli?  Would it be worth it? 

What?  Nothing.  I didn't say anything ... 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:56 | 4322359 piliage
piliage's picture

But, the problem is that FACTA, the new international banking regulation, gives the IRS international audit power over sovereign banks. If you kept all of your money abroad in a coffee can and lived in a tent, perhaps this will work. The IRS is specifically targeting duel nationals who are 'hiding' their nationality, and the penalties being enforced internationally are HUGE. A simple internet search will yield dozens of horror stories from Canadians, etc. who have gotten nasty letters with big penalties attached from the IRS due to their "American' nationality.

10 years ago, your solution worked. Now, many of us abroad are faced with being double taxed as the current deductions are not indexed to currency devaluations. Uncle Ben's strategy of devaluing the dollar 'increases' your income abroad and moves you quickly out of the deduction threshold into AMT-land. Also, once you go into AMT land, you loose your local tax paid as a deduction, 55-60% marginal rate in Belgium. I guess I don't pay enough tax once, so the IRS thinks I can pay again...

I've lived abroad and ran a business in Europe for 15 years. My partners in my firm now need to have THEIR bank accounts declared to the IRS, even though they AREN'T American, as the new IRS banking regulations require disclosure of all business accounts where I have a share of ownership. If I don't, they can confiscate 50% of the account or $100,000, whichever is GREATER.

Of course, these regulations and audits required only of Americans abroad are in direct violation of the equal protection clause of the 4th amendment. Hell, we fought a revolution over this shit in 1776. We living abroad are seen as piggy banks with legs as we don't get to vote for congress as we don't have a local address - the congress can screw us with little political fall out.

Of the OECD countries, the USA is the ONLY one that taxes by nationality. Not even the French stoop so low. Someday, someone will try to file a lawsuit in federal court, but until then, telling the US to take their passport and shove it is a viable option for many of us living outside the USA.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:27 | 4322580 Doña K
Doña K's picture

When it comes to banking it's very messy indeed. There are still several countries however that do not cooperate with the US FACTA.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 11:27 | 4324596 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

Dona, FACTA is the reason these expats are looking into renouncing U.S. citizenship. The feds want moar money!!!

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:35 | 4322114 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"REMAIN in the US?"

It's still a Soviet gulag either way.  No, thank you.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:50 | 4322130 August
August's picture

Return to one of the Holy and Enlightened Sanctuary Cities of the USA, where even making enquiries as to one's citizenship is forbidden.

Life is good, eh?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:07 | 4322643 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture


Return to states under false ID.

Claim Free shit en masse.

What about those finger prints you gave them from your iPhone?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 15:40 | 4323171 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

If you have an iphone then they are to dumb to be thinking of leaving Amerika , so dont worry about the finger print 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:29 | 4323404 4 wheel drift
4 wheel drift's picture

Leave states, relinquish citizenship.

Return to states under false ID.

Claim Free shit en masse.





get rid of all jobs/wealth....  (buy RV/nice motorhome -diesel pusher, or similar)

go to CA.  buy piece of land in warm weather.   (hopefully low taxes, and part of the get rid of wealth scheme)

work for walmart or similar for a year then convince employer to let you go.... (so you can)  claim unemployment/disability/beg on corner

put on the list for whatever other free shit is available....

make sure it is warm outside live happily ever after....   -g


all of the above is MUCH better than having to deal with any and all of the bureaucrats the process implies.....

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:24 | 4321828 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Tylers, you need to do an article about building a time machine and then beating LBJ about the head with an axe handle in 1963; this and expatriation are equal possibilities for 99% of the readership.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:07 | 4321939 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

LBJ launched progressive reforms like the War on poverty and created what he called the "Great Society" for all Americans.   Before my time, but I'm sure he must have been very popular with all the "smart" people back then, same as Barry now.  You can't go back in time, we just suffer the consequences.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:59 | 4322051 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

LBJ single handedly killed America and made it a very hostile place for the core population.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:17 | 4322162 Keyser
Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:41 | 4322191 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Yeah, that pesky Civil Rights Act really made it a "very hostile place for the core population" didn't it?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 03:11 | 4322216 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

I'll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 05:46 | 4322312 verum quod lies
verum quod lies's picture

One act did it: the Immigration Reform Act of 1965. Importing 3rd world Marxists results in 3rd world Marxism. 'Demographics is destiny.'

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:39 | 4322187 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Many of the anti-intellectual rugged individualists here consider the Great Society as some pussified, communist, (add your adjective here) program, but they are too stupid to realize that they probably benefitted in some way from its social, educational, and civil rights measures, and America became a better place because of it.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 04:52 | 4322274 All_Your_Base
All_Your_Base's picture

appropriate airhead avatar

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:38 | 4322590 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

 probably benefitted in some way



Yes.  But at the expense of a thousand generations.  It's something very special when you have an entire generation taking from it's children's children in order to drive an obese car and have plastic trinkets galore.  American exceptionalism  indeed. 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 08:48 | 4322400 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

You make it sound like the experiment is over and it was a resounding success. Except you conveniently forget that the tab is coming due, and is anywhere from 70-200 trillion dollars.

Now, I am still alive and myself, my children, and my grandchildren are stuck with the bill, with no effective means to pay it, and no benefit from past laviousness.

How is that a success?

The experiment is still in play, with the whirlwinds whipping up for Part II of the outcome, which are the consequences of idiotic and impractical idealism. 

Are you a bona fide idiot, or are you being intentionally obtuse to jerk chains and elicit a response?

Second question. Are you a boomer, and hence one of those folks that has mopped up the gravy and hopes to hit "gov't funded payola" into your sunset years?

Sorry you didn't prepare for your own future. Cat food by the case is cheap at Cosco. You'll get by. And if you don't that's Darwinian selection at play and mother nature just doing her thing.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:36 | 4322458 thriftymost
thriftymost's picture


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:24 | 4323385 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

"Please don't be a spelling nazi sir". Besides, this is a new era of slovenliness of the grammar of our once sacrosant mother tongue, where any millenial generation imbecile (apologies for the redundancy) can can use any word in any context ("don't hate on me bro"), invent any word they desire as long as other imbeciles adopt same ("hey, look at that dude's bling!"), or misspell words without the expectation of being called to task for the error ("dude, don't be a spelling nazi!").

Sarcasm aside, I thank you for calling me on my indolence with respect to honoring the appropriate rules of grammar. We as a society are much too tolerant of shit that our parents and grandparents would have been called out for.

Apathy and sloth. The world around us is a mess for a reason.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:27 | 4323011 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Carbone, of course, you are correct to say that the "experiment" is not a one-time event. It is ongoing and changes over time. I would also submit for your consideration that the great society legislation is not the only (or perhaps even the largest) cause for our fiscal deficit.

I am assuming that you asked your questions in good faith, so, I will try to answer your questions-

Neat and pat "answers" to difficult issues are often the mark of ignorance. Yes, I am often dissappointed at the level of discussion here, and I sometimes play devil's advocate and start some shit.

I am not captive to faction or party, and yes, I sometimes deliberately trigger reactions from the knee-jerk crowd to expose flawed-thinking fallacies. Sometimes it is a pre-requisite to clear out the clown car for a good dialectic to take place. I try to do my part in that, and I do not hold anybody's hand by adding an explanatory /sarc tag to any comment either.

No, I am not a boomer, and I doubt that cat food is in my future, but thanks for your concern. However, I must caution you to be careful expressing any concern for a fellow man, woman, or child though. You might (gasp!) get branded or pigeon-holed as a "socialist" ;)

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:42 | 4323415 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

You are correct in your assertion that black and white answers are the hallmark of an idiot. But I did not respond to you with a black and white answer. I observed, and replied that the inference that you made - that somehow the Great Society is a success - is a valid conclusion is incorrect, and then provided a premise that contradicted your implied conclusion, thus negating your argument.

Most Americans wouldn't know a socialist if Trotsky himself rose from the grave, gave them a swift kick in the ass, and said "Hi, I'm Leon and I'm a socialist".

For example, Barry Obama is NOT a socialist by any means of the imagination. He's is closer to a coporatist-fascist (redundancy again? LOL) who is wise enough to know that the plebes can be bought off with swag purchased with money borrowed from their grandchildren's pockets.

With respect to the aforementioned, boomers are among the most selfish douchebags this nation has ever produced, and most of them will vehemently defend their "right" to have me provide for them into their retirement. 

I too have the desire to flog sheep of different hybrids, and by your statement assumed that you were a hopium addicted two-party groupie sheep. My apologies.

I ate a can of cat food in a college bet once (Friskie's Buffet chicken I believe) and puked it up as about a gallon of Bud Lite was already residing in the space it was meant to occupy. It taught me two lessons in life. First, funnelling beer leads to stupid bets, and second, prepare for one's retirement.



Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:45 | 4322466 piliage
piliage's picture

Hey Gallistic, why don't you go take a walk through Camden NJ or Detroit MI and tell us how your social utopia government handout programmes are working? For that matter, as you are a fan of Belgian surrealism, why don't you go hang out in Brussels for a couple days with the 22% unemployed and see how well that city is doing under the management of a string of socialist mayors who have used unchecked immigration as a voter recruitment tool?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 13:35 | 4322895 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Now that's more like it! I am Glad to see I started a shit-storm and brought on a hail of down arrows.

Yes, I have taken a walk through Camden, but not through Detroit. The damage there was caused by many reasons.

Reducing those problems to "social utopia government handout programmes" is overly simplistic and betrays the fact that the person saying it has their ideological blinders on.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:33 | 4323034 piliage
piliage's picture

"The Black Family Is Worse Off Today Than In the 1960?s, Report Shows"

"In 1950, 17 percent of African-American children lived in a home with their mother but not their father. By 2010 that had increased to 50 percent. In 1965, only eight percent of childbirths in the Black community occurred out-of-wedlock. In 2010 that figure was 41 percent; and today, the out-of-wedlock childbirth in the Black community sits at an astonishing 72 percent. The number of African-American women married and living with their spouse was recorded as 53 percent in 1950. By 2010, it had dropped to 25 percent."

Why don't you tell me more about the wonderful value added by the great society programmes of LBJ, you genius.

And according to you I'm the ideologue...too funny.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 16:28 | 4323262 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Ok, I'll bite.

Is that weak-ass article supposed to prove that the great society programs are the reason for this?

To say that this "worse off" condition was caused by the "great society programmes of LBJ" is simply an enormous leap of reason.

Is that really what you contend?



Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:59 | 4322627 dougngen
dougngen's picture

Hey galistic...go back to think progress you mental midget

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:26 | 4323015 gallistic
gallistic's picture

think who?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:32 | 4323410 4 wheel drift
4 wheel drift's picture

b u l l s h i t

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:55 | 4322545 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Hard to keep track of LBJ's deeds.  He signed off on a lot of those 1960 riots before they happened.  LBJ coordinated with Gov Romney to riot and burn down Detroit and then bring in the National Guard.  You don't want to be anywhere these nut jobs know about.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:41 | 4322119 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

So you're too rich to expatriate?  I know poorness isn't a factor because I was poor-as-shit when I left for good over a decade ago.  As it turns out, a prosperous life is much more easily attainable outside and away from the prison-bubble of that country and its inducements of the trapped-in-the-USA mentality.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:19 | 4322671 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

"Poor as shit". You mean financially or morally? Where do you keep your I-did-it-all-by-myself wealth merzio...wrapped up in your white flag?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:49 | 4322752 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"financially or morally?"

Financially; I had a couple hundred bucks to my name.  Morally, I felt mostly alright--I spent a couple years doing some Kerouac-ian road trips after I'd put in some effort to medical marijuana and congressional term limits campaigns, among others, but I couldn't accept paying taxes anymore, to the Bush gov or any.  So I went back to Asia to live.  Twice, it's the best decision I've made.

"wrapped up in your white flag?"

The only 'flag' I would wave is that of my own sovereignty, and I will act in the best interests of my own 'national security'--laws, governments, and others' opinions be damned.  You are perfectly welcome to ride the USs Titanic to its inevitable demise.  I won't be accompanying.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:39 | 4321549 SunburnMoskit
SunburnMoskit's picture

delusional idiocy

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:41 | 4321564 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture



You are right

Wow I have learned a lot from reading ZH articles - and the comments too

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:15 | 4322080 fonestar
fonestar's picture


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:57 | 4321760 Moe Hamhead
Moe Hamhead's picture

Yeah, even the President doesn't have a birth certificate !!

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:52 | 4321902 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

We have proof of Lab fees paid and circumstantial evidence that in 1961, he was hatched in the Columbia Univesity Laboratory for Social Sciences.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:16 | 4322085 fonestar
fonestar's picture

His father was a petri dish organizer.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:36 | 4323422 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

Not hatched. Decanted.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 06:06 | 4322320 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture
VIDEO Released Of Plane Crash Where Official Who Verified Obama’s Birth Certificate Died

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:09 | 4323503 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture



Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:07 | 4321626 AngelEyes00
AngelEyes00's picture

Why leave when you have front row seats to the impending collapse?  Get  a gun, ammo, some freeze dried food, water, flashlights, batteries, first aid kit, bulletproof vest, seeds, hand tools, how to books on butchering porcine and bovine, smoker, security cameras, dehydrater, fruit and nut trees, solar with back up batteries (off grid), liquor, swimsuit,  hat, chocolate, aspirin, toiletries, memorabilia, gold, silver coins, etc.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:12 | 4321806 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

We will have good sport hunting bad guys. I hate being bored. 

P.S. Not much to add to your list, but you could have listed liqour twice, or added an 's for plural or something.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:19 | 4322025 SunburnMoskit
SunburnMoskit's picture

all you need is 4 items, but you must have them in large supply and be able to protect your inventory:

1. booze. 2000 cases (roughly 2000 liters); 1000 vodka, 1000 whiskey. This is your highest value item, you trade this only for water or ammo (you never trade ammo away), 2-1 if you can.

2. shoes. 1500 pairs; various types and sizes.

3. cigarettes. 2500 boxes of malboro reds.

4. toilet paper. 10,000 rolls.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:34 | 4322112 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

You're off by a count of three, Sunburn. All you really need is a warehouse full of sanitary napkins. The world will beat a path to your door. Every month 'til you run out of stock.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:47 | 4322131 SunburnMoskit
SunburnMoskit's picture

i'm not a prepper, i defer to experts ; ) but maybe add 300 pounds of coffee and 300 boxes tylenol too.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:25 | 4322170 Keyser
Keyser's picture

No thanks, I prefer to watch the impending melee from the safe comfines of an Asian country 8000 miles away... 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 13:21 | 4322845 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

I specifically recommend shooters or fifths for the liquor storage.  Smaller denominations = higher profit.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 16:25 | 4323257 ebear
ebear's picture

What, no helicopter?  No submarine?  No underground base with a doomsday device?

Some prepper you are! 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:41 | 4322020 JackWills
JackWills's picture

Goodbye and goodriddance the dirty rats always leave the sinking ship, Id rather stay to keep it afloat

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:02 | 4322145 August
August's picture

You, sir, are the winner of the Doenitz Award for Cultural Loyalty, and are not really complicit in anything at all.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:46 | 4322151 SunburnMoskit
SunburnMoskit's picture

cultural loyalty, lol

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 06:50 | 4322348 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

That strategy worked well on the Titanic.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 07:23 | 4322361 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Those in FSA salute you!

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:09 | 4322486 piliage
piliage's picture

Just out of curiosity JackWills, do you have a big yellow foam rubber 'We're Number 1' finger glove too?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:48 | 4322125 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

If I were actually serious about 'leaving' the US. I would just setup some numbered accounts or extract everything into cash, 'die' in some foreign country and buy another ID there.   

Why the hell should we have to pay an EXIT tax to leave?   That's no different than the Soviet Union in the 60's & 70's




Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:47 | 4322530 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

That fake death idea is an interesting one. Wouldn't US authorities want some proof other than a few potentially fraudulent documents?

As for leaving the Soviet Union, most people weren't allowed to even travel anywhere, and if they did manage to smuggle themselves out, the "tax" was around 100% of remaining property and relatives, if you know what I mean (also character assassination or outright disappearance). If you don't, just wait and, the way things are going, you will see it right there where you live now.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:46 | 4323064 midtowng
midtowng's picture

They'll never stop you from leaving, especially if you are poor.

The question is: how much of your wealth will they take in the process.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:02 | 4324022 robertsgt40
robertsgt40's picture

This fellow may be going from the frying pan onto the fire. As a Vietnam vet, I'll make my stand here.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:27 | 4321516 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Peace Out!

I hear alot of people talking about it..some are already selling their dollars for real money.


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:23 | 4321523 buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

Texas is my country, I'm not leaving my roots (I guess I'm just too simple to get this relocating idea to avoid tyranny without finally facing it head-on). 

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:39 | 4321558 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1, hard to critique that.

Texas: It's like a whole 'nother country.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:28 | 4322177 Keyser
Keyser's picture

And it will be again one day... 


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:50 | 4321578 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

Texas is the only single sane state, large enough to lead the charge against Communist FedGov; whether that be by secession, or some other means.

However, the demographic trends in the the Lonestar State are against you, so you ought to act quickly.

Rest assured, there are other states chomping at the bit to join whatever movement might originate in Texas.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:53 | 4321599 walküre
walküre's picture

Houston has a major challenge being Texan since Katrina. Houston is the Texan FSA HQ.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:44 | 4322122 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I've noticed that in the last few business trips down there.   (Before this year the last time I was there was 1999) 

It's definitely more cafe au lait skin tones all around.  

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 04:45 | 4322268 -.-
-.-'s picture

An autonomous Texas must convince these military bodies:


1. Fort Hood 

2. Fort Bliss

3. Fort Sam Houston

4. Red River Army Depot

5. Laughflin Air Force Base

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4321662 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I'm sick of hearing that Texas is some kind of libertarian utopia in the US where freedom still exists. In order for that to be remotely true, stop electing authoritarian douchetards like Rick perry as your governor, who force vaccinated hundreds of thousands of young girls without their parents knowledge with a harmful and ineffective vaccine for his good buddies who just happen to run the companies that make them, and cant even name three useless departments of the govt he would shut down. stop going along with all these constitution free zones 50 miles from the border where Gestapo agents violate the rights of everyone, and actually do one thing truly different that stands out against the other 49 states. The only good freedom oriented thing Texas has provided is with since I've been alive has been ron Paul. We could do with less bush, lbj, Rick Perry's etc, since those are the main types of politicians that come out of there

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:09 | 4321794 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Don't forget the road & bridge contracts Perry gave to a Spanish contractor worth billions.

Nothing more than the rest of the common predators.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:09 | 4321795 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Yawn. Old campaign rhetoric. The election is over. They both lost. 


From a Carolina/Virginia brother. 

Of course I did have ancestors who left here and went to Texas. A signer of the Texas Declaration of Independence. (Independent Country for 10 years)

An Alamo defender. The doctor who delivered the first baby born in Texas, during the Battle of San Jacinto. A legendary Texas Ranger, and more.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:08 | 4322067 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Love how all you guys drive by down vote without refuting a single thing me or the other guy said. What you are saying is exactly my point. DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS. "You don't know what the fuck you are taking about". you guys elect authoritarians that are IDENTICAL to the rest of them, your police force conducts just as many horrible violations of people person rights by your Texas police, and allow these random immigration check points, throwing the constitution out the window, just like the rest of the country, then shout remember the Alamo and shit like that. I have nothing against Texas, and if it was any different or in some way this special land of freedom as you all like to claim, I'd love to live there. But it isn't. And little remember the Alamo and don't mess with Texas doesn't change a thing. Rather than down voting me, why don't you list some ways Texas is any more libertarian than the rest of the country. The people from Texas aside from RP that the people of Texas elect every time prove it

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:33 | 4322445 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

The people that had the guts to settle this country, beginning at Jamestown, VA and then beyond have been the freedom lovers escaping from the tyrants around the world. America and Texas was a glorious place for us for many years. But the rest of you followed and enjoyed the benefits of our sacrifices. And then ruined it. No where left to go. But I will enjoy watching you reap what you statist have sown.

P.S. Sorry to hear that you are sick. But don't blame it on us.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:09 | 4322487 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

Yeah but, what have ya done for us lately?



Boast an bluster don't count.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:22 | 4322494 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Be a man, do it for yourself.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 15:19 | 4323128 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Hana listen to yourself. You speak as if you did any of that. You didn't do one fucking bit of it, that shit was done over a century ago. And as for the whole escaping tyrants bullshit, you still haven't said ONE FUCKING THING to refute any of what I said. Tell me again how Texas is less statist than the rest of the country. You guys have produced some of the most statist politicians ever foisted upon this country, and you citizens of Texas keep electing them. Don't get much more statist than Rick perry. You guys talk a big game, but continue to vote for the same type of statist scum bags as the rest of the country you claim to be better than. And GTF outta here with that whole 'our sacrifice' shit, as if you somehow contributed to something centuries ago

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 16:07 | 4323224 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

You don't even know your great grandfathers name do you?

Too bad I'll not see you lame ass response. I gotta to. You just keep listening to your biased professor. See where that gets you.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:37 | 4323729 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I believe you will log in and look at this, so I will ask, 1 more time, to quit being a pussy and respond to 1 single thing I've said. Don't know where you are getting the whole professor thing from, haven't been in college for quite a while. Just tell me all the ways Texas is less authoritarian and statist than the rest of the US. Name some ways you are 'the last bastion of freedom' as many of you like to say. Oh wait, you can't, because it isn't and you are full of shit. Ill keep waiting for a reply that actually addresses what I've said rather than more nonsense.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:47 | 4323745 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Arguing with you is like arguing with a liberal. When you can respond to something because you are wrong, you avoid responding directly, because you can't, and instead bring up irrelevant things like if I know my great grandfathers name(I do, see how I answered your question without any dodging?), and then act like you have won something or made some good point, when you haven't, because you can't.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:23 | 4323006 Trucker Glock
Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:50 | 4322132 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"the first baby born in Texas"

Wow, I didn't realize the natives had lived there all those years without ever giving birth.  Were your ancestors also the "discoverers" of the Americas?  You're apparently the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, (so eat a dick).

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:20 | 4322439 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

It was'nt Texas then dumb fuck.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 13:59 | 4322947 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"was'nt" [sic]

Perhaps a little more language education for you, then?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 16:37 | 4323281 ebear
ebear's picture

This guy ain't from Texas on account of he didn't say warn't.

Dead giveaway.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:31 | 4323029 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Uh, actually, no.

Texas was a Mexican province long before becoming a US state.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 15:18 | 4323126 11b40
11b40's picture

As it will become again in reality if not formally.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 03:08 | 4322213 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Another delusional loser who claims he has fantasy Texas ancestors who were great.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 10:24 | 4322495 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Don't you know envy is one of the seven deadly sins?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:52 | 4322199 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Well said, Carl.

You can add me to the list of people that are tired of the insanely imbecilic "South will rise again", "Lone Star Republic of Texas" and all the other fantasy excrement that is spewed from the mouth of ignoramuses.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 14:49 | 4323071 midtowng
midtowng's picture

At least we now know where the most right-wing jerks on ZH are from.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:06 | 4321938 Blano
Blano's picture

Texas is my country now too (former Michigander).  This is where I'll make my last stand, if necessary.

The demographics are troubling though.  At least Wendy Davis has a nice rack.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:13 | 4321957 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



+ 1

I lived eight very happy years in Texas.

"Well, if you ain't never been there
then I guess you ain't been told
that to live down there in Texas
you gotta have a lot of soul." 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 00:26 | 4321987 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"The demographics are troubling though."

Not to liberals, Texas is being targeted because it's viewed as a last bastion.  Don't worry, liberals are over represented in power everywhere in the US, there's enough patriots in the bluest state to shut down the state if they act in concert.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 03:01 | 4322208 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Onward, Christian soldier- Do your duty and "level out" the demographic problem. Go to the Alamo and make your last stand, you noble patriot.

Do everyone a favor and quickly join Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, and all the other "patriots".

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:15 | 4322155 LawyerScum
LawyerScum's picture

I'm a born and raised Texan and a Texas Aggie as well. My fellow Ags are smart, can grow food, raise livestock, build, engineer and they have lots of guns. When the shit hits the fan go where the Aggies are.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:47 | 4322608 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

Sorry but Texas is not the panacea...

It's overrun with illegals.

It may not have an income tax but it has userous property taxes and high sales taxes.

It has a militant law enforcement community.

It has a massive number of welfare recipients...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:47 | 4322609 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

Sorry but Texas is not the panacea...

It's overrun with illegals.

It may not have an income tax but it has userous property taxes and high sales taxes.

It has a militant law enforcement community.

It has a massive number of welfare recipients...

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:29 | 4321528 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

"How I Renounced My US Citizenship"



Fine. One less whiner...

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:04 | 4321622 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

thats what my US friends always told me back in 1999 when i revoked my US citizenship for a European one. In the mean time some of their parents died, some of them became high six figure income guys. These worldwide taxes on US citizens are a bitch! My friends regret not giving up their US passports back then, paying tens of thousands to support 750 US foreign military basis around the world, which are there to teach these countries democrazy. What a farce!

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:47 | 4321888 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

What goes into military operations goes in other countries into the social systems. That's why they have a much lower crime rate and lower prison population. On the other hand in most other countries there is no right to own a gun.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:36 | 4322185 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Ironic considering that the US has the highest per-capita prison population of any country on the planet... 


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:02 | 4322635 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Not all that ironic Keyser. Our off-the-charts per capita prison rate has nothing to do with the crime rate. The prison business is a big profitable industry. Going to prison is also a really big disincentive in a country that incarcerates you when you don't pay your taxes... and our government really wants you to get that message.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:30 | 4322171 Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

Obviously you don't mean Greece, Italy, Spain, Cyprus, or France...the monkey on their back would still be grabbing cash just as bad. That is IF they even had a job, because realistically things aren't looking so great for the almighty EU right now:

Face it man, it's fucked just about everywhere and no matter where we are: when this thing blows it will hurt almost everyone.  It's all one big happy clusterfuck, and I'd rather be here where my family is and has lived on the same land for 160 years.  I hope that with a bit of ingenuity and some ammo we'll be here another 160.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 15:39 | 4323167 11b40
11b40's picture

All I have to say to those who wish to renounce their American citizenship is good ridance.

I will make my stand here, and be happy to saddle up and ride w/Ranger_Will.

America right or wrong.  When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be made right.  If you don't get that, well, too bad.  I simply don't have any interest in you.  The fight for America may be lost, but I won't give up and slink off.  The Constitution and Bill of Rights are worth a rigerous defense, and running away is not in my DNA.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:50 | 4322614 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Hey, I applaud anyone who walks-the-walk. But all those who just talk-the-talk and then squat-the-squat are just a waste of oxygen.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:28 | 4321531 NOZZLE
NOZZLE's picture

Spit in your passport and mail it back in pieces to that Slash Hillary Ciltoon.  Then become a citisen of your favored country, no more complicated than that, and yes they do arrest tax cheats trying to renter the country.

Ron Paul is worth listening to, too an extent.  Arranging one's plans around whether he would ever become president and get the kind of power needed to reverse decades of insanity is another matter.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 01:57 | 4322141 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

The author said he devoted most of a year to a political cause he believed in; have you ever had so much resolve or made such a contribution?

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:30 | 4321537 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

I never even had it and I renounce it.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:50 | 4321572 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

Well, I renounce the citizenship I never had in clueless,  CondescensionLand, or whatever preaching shithole you're from.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:31 | 4321538 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Despite our shortcomings (How do I love thee, USA, let me count the ways!), the grass is not always greener. Canada has a health care system that is a total disaster, and I am being complimentary. Can't keep my pistol on me there either.  Central America - nice place to visit but not sure I want to live there, right Hugo? And Asia... ever been to Singapore ... humid and hot as hell! Australia - you have to be a gazillionaire just to have someone cut your postage stamp-sized front yard. Which leaves South America and Doug Casey's Argentina real estate play. Hmmmm... do a smell a conflict-of-interest rat here?

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:35 | 4321546 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

About the only freedom we have here in the land of the free that isn't available elsewhere is the right to bear arms to defend pnes self and property. I consider that to be a natural right all people inherently have, but that too is trying to be taken away.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:45 | 4321573 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Maybe better to stay and fight to keep that right, than to take flight to someone else's plight.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:14 | 4322159 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I do chuckle at the endless imagined rationalizings of Americans finding reasons and justifications not to leave.  So you've ruled out life in Tajikistan, huh?  Know much about life there?  I don't.  I'd like to check it out.  A good friend says it's stunningly beautiful, sparsely populated, and so on.  How many countries can you name?  Do you know enough about life in those countries to rule out living, or even visiting, there?  How about the countries that you can't name?  Do you much about life there??  Maybe we should start with the countries you've visited.  You mentioned Singapore and Canada.. are there others?  It seems obvious to me, but it may be a new idea to some, that Singapore is about as representative of the whole of Asia as Hawaii is representative of the whole of North America.  But if 'keeping your pistol on you' is a priority for you, then you may be best off staying where you are.  And as a resident of the outside world, perhaps it's better for us, too, as Americans traveling with firearms have a long, brutal history of killing locals in the countries where they arrive.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:33 | 4322584 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Well you know what they say, "A loud chuckle bespeaks a vacant mind." O.K. so I paraphrased a bit. I have travelled more than most but didn't want my piece to be too wordy. Tajikstan, no. I would like to check it out too. But I would like to live somewhere where I speak the language ( I do speak two) and digest the food. I also don't want to get taken out by some foreign bacteria that my immune system doesn't recognize. And you say Americans travel around the world with their firearms killing other people ... I am not even going to give that stupid comment the courtesy of a rebuttal, unless of course you mean the american military. It is a lot easier to turn and run than it is to stay and fight for what you believe is right. Enlighten us merziobeach, on what you think is right.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 13:10 | 4322816 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I did mean the military, and it was a dry humor but relevant considering that US military operated in 120+ countries last year, and for some reason, 'carrying your firearm on your person' is apparently one of your priority criteria for not living outside the US.

I also only speak a couple languages well, and I see how that is one of our deficiencies.  I'm not going to live my life according to paranoiac fear of bacteria in food and thus not travel; there's no logic in that.  Paying material support to a terrorist government, I don't see anything ethical in that.

A chuckle may also bespeak a mind that has seen enough to know a bit more than can be casually explained.  One joke I did take with me from my time in CT was from a motorcycle enthusiast, and he told me, "when people ask why I drive I Harley, I explain that if you have to ask, you would not understand the answer."

What do I think is right?  Don't compromise to immoral, self-asserted authorities.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 15:49 | 4323189 11b40
11b40's picture

So, "Don't compromise to immoral, self-asserted authorities" is a nice sentiment, high moral principal, or whatever, but exactly where on this earth do you plan to go?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 05:37 | 4324373 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture Govt by Gas Thomas Sheridan (10 min - an analysis)

This is an invisible war.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:13 | 4322154 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Listen up boys.   I posted before that there are about 12 million licensed hunters in the United States - still.  PA alone has about 900,000.  FL, GA and AL have over 2 million CCWs.  Most of these hunters have scoped .308 or .223.  The scary ones use bows.

Things will get probably get ugly but there are a lot more of us versus them.  Using some pretty talented soldiers, they could not hold countries with locals who were less well armed and trained then a lot of American taxpayers.

So the Army and Marines could not hold it.  How do you think 200,000 or more armed bureaucrats are going to do?  They do not have a Green Zone to go to each night because they live in your neighborhood.   And guess what?  Everybody in the neighborhood knows exactly what everybody does because wives talk.  Even if you are not married - the wives know everything.  They make the N*S-A look like pikers.

And guess what - when the shit hits the fan - your local DHS,TSA or whatever alphabet agency goon will:
A: Go to work.

B: Stay home to protect his family

C: (most importantly) Stay home to protect his worthless shit like the big screen HD brainwashing box.

And guess who's house people are gonna go to first looking for some payback when things get real and when food gets scarce?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 13:13 | 4322824 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Great post Freddie.  There really are more of us than there are of them.  As long as we do not let the Hard Left rule over us.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:06 | 4323340 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Agreed, Civil War II (1992), by Thomas W. Chittum, summed it up pretty right. Well worth the read if you can stomach it.

... time will tell.



Sun, 01/12/2014 - 04:42 | 4324347 DEADTIME
DEADTIME's picture


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:31 | 4321540 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

One of my friends is a white guy whose parents lived in Mexico, and this has dual citizenship and two passports. How I envy him. It's a lucky thing. And his wife and child also have Mexican passports. For those of us not that lucky, it requires a substantial amount of money that will probably be out of most people's reach.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 02:19 | 4322165 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"it requires a substantial amount of money"

Actually, it doesn't.  It takes research and diligence.  A friend of mine collects passports, all legally, and he has several.  His daughter, now a year old, has six.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:03 | 4321778 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

That Yankee was one hell of man.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:37 | 4321554 DEADTIME
DEADTIME's picture

I intend to stay and fight it out, they will find my body on a bed of brass.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:43 | 4321570 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

And then books will be written about you...comic books.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:59 | 4321610 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

Not quite sure who I should quote for you.

"Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry

"You know, you come from nothing - You go back to nothing. What have you got to lose? NOTHING! Monty Python


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:27 | 4321680 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

“Patriotism - the virtue of the vicious.” Oscar Wilde

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 11:43 | 4322601 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture

There is a difference between being a patriot and being a myrmidon. I should have had a chat with Oscar about that!

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:59 | 4321606 Robinhood
Robinhood's picture

My patriot brother I'm right there with you. Mine will be atop a bed of steel 7N6.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:35 | 4321692 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." George Bernard Shaw

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 23:04 | 4321785 Robinhood
Robinhood's picture

Do you have an original thought or must you continue to quote others?

The above quotation is absurd. It should be more like "patriotism is your conviction that the country you know and love, as bad as it may seem, is worth fighting for" Robinhood. 

You misjudge and underestimate us by all of the bad deeds of our politicians, elitist plutocrats, wall street and the central banking cartrel.  

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:00 | 4324385 DEADTIME
DEADTIME's picture

Ahhh an AK74 man, my favorite as well. Very underestimated, I love the poison bullet.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:41 | 4321560 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

One wonders how many US citizens of more limited means will opt for wading south across the Rio Grande dodging the flying killer robots?

We'll be easy to spot, gathering in small forlorn groups adjacent to the local El Home Depot hoping for work.

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 21:41 | 4321563 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Written By Doug Casey. Enough said. We then understand the article will be complete BS and utter nonsense before even reading the first sentence. We're glad you got the fuck out Dougie, better watch your back when you see the Gauchos sharpening their knives ...

Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:32 | 4321688 GotNuttin'todo
GotNuttin'todo's picture


Fri, 01/10/2014 - 22:44 | 4321713 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture


When you got casey and simon black telling your to spend $50k USD in good money on a nigeria, or dominican, or panamanian passport just run like hell, you know these bitches are getting cut.

All this renounce is based on having a new passport elsewhere,

In MOST country's if you go live there and your a GOOD man, and take care of your foreign wife, ... they're watching and in general after 10+ years they will come to you and offer YOU a passport.

This entire NOTION that as ASSHOLE can an BUY a passport is BULLSHIT, nobody on earth wants ASSHOLES, not even for money, well except country's ran by assholes.

On that note, how much is the USA charging for PASSPORTS? I mean how much does a Nigerian have to pay for a USA passport? Basically its a lottery deal, they pay big money and if they win the lotto they get a green-card and they're on there way to being a USA citizen, but who in the HELL wants to go to USA? Nigerians, ... that's about it, and only cause criminals loves the USA.

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