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Guest Post: How I Renounced My US Citizenship And Why (Part 1)
Submitted by Doug Casey's International Man,
(Editor's note: The following is a firsthand story of how and why a former US citizen—who kindly shared this information on condition of anonymity—decided to renounce his US citizenship. It's packed with practical advice and priceless insights into this momentous decision. Whether or not you take the ultimate step of renunciation, I believe you will find value from the author's experiences.)
By Citizen of the World
Having evolved philosophically in my adulthood to a fairly hardcore libertarian worldview, I had read the writings of people like Doug Casey, which encouraged people even some decades ago to take concrete steps to internationalize themselves. Not just "talk the talk," but to actually "walk the walk."
My professional career offered me the chance to travel abroad quite a bit, so it was not too difficult for me to begin taking baby steps to internationalize.
I rented an apartment in one of the Asian cities that I frequently visited. A few years later, I made my first overseas real estate purchase of a small apartment in another Asian city, followed by several more in the next few years.
By this time, I was managing to spend about 2/3 of each year outside the US—you could say that I waded into the pool, rather than just diving in.
The passage of the first of the three recent "exit tax" laws by Congress in 1996 had alerted me to how high-stakes the US government regarded full expatriation to be—and inclined me toward doing so.
I reasoned that if they were that anxious to discourage people from leaving, it might well be time to seriously consider doing so.
Still, for about another decade, I wasn't in a good position financially or logistically to do so, although I did begin seriously collecting more information about residency abroad, second passports, etc.
Shortly after my financial and logistical impediments cleared up, Ron Paul began achieving astounding success in the early phases of the 2008 presidential campaign. Encouraged once more at the prospect of there perhaps being a chance to turn things around after all, I put my international plans on hold and devoted nearly the entire first three quarters of the year to his campaign.
But the unremitting ferocity with which mainstream Republicans opposed our every effort led me to renew my efforts to abandon the sinking ship.
Another imperative for me has been the maxim "silence implies consent"—that is, by not acting (especially now that I was in a reasonably good position to do so) to separate myself from the manifest evils of the regime in DC, I would continue granting it my consent.
So, believing at that time (incorrectly, as it turns out) that you had to have another passport before you could give up US citizenship, I settled on the economic citizenship of the Commonwealth of Dominica, which is the quickest legitimate and least-expensive way to clear that hurdle.
I engaged a US-based consultant/agent to undertake the process of applying for Dominica's program—something I definitely recommend.
Even though the agent may not want to hold your hand the whole time or answer every last question you may have, he or she can be quite helpful in navigating any significant rough spots or ambiguities. But be careful: the fees can mount up quickly. Keep in mind that obtaining a second citizenship (so you won't be "stateless" and unable to travel after giving up your US citizenship) and the actual Relinquishment/Renunciation are two distinct phases (there's a third expatriation phase, if you will be a "Covered Expatriate" and have to deal with the "mark to market" exit tax). You'll likely be expected to pay fees to an advisor/agent for each phase, unless you spring for a (much more expensive) "package deal."
Do be careful to choose only a legitimate agency—there are any number of dubious ones offering their "services" on the Internet. If in doubt about one you're considering, you should inquire directly to the government officials of your chosen country whether that agency is in good standing with the officials there.
Initially, it was expected to take about three months to receive the Dominica passport, after all the required documents and preliminaries had been done.
But even as I got those things ready to submit (the required FBI criminal check was routinely quoted as taking up to 12 weeks at that time), the expected approval and completion dates were being pushed out at least several more months.
I had originally considered doing the St. Kitts program, which offered a considerably more useful passport—visa-free entry to all of the EU, as well as to Canada, which is about two dozen more countries than the Dominica passport allows.
So faced with a possibly quite extended delay in getting the Dominica passport and by now having a fair amount of experience in making such an application, I decided to apply for the St. Kitts one as well—and without the additional expense of a consultant/agent.
Since most of the documents and preliminaries I had done for Dominica were also needed for the St. Kitts application, I got the St. Kitts one done much sooner and had everything for it filed about a month after filing for the Dominica one. In the end, the St. Kitts passport was issued about three months before the Dominica one.
With the passport hurdle soon to be cleared, I had to make financial preparations. Not so much on account of the exit tax itself, but much more because of the very punitive, but much less known Section 2801 gift/inheritance tax imposed on all post-expatriation gifts and/or bequests to "US persons" by a "covered" expatriate (which I have the dubious pleasure of being).
[Editor's Note: The term "covered expatriate" refers to the former US citizens who qualify to be stung with the exit tax. See this IRS article for more details.]
Because most of my low-to-mid seven-figure wealth had already been taxed at least once (and also having considerable loss carry-forwards ensuing from the aftermath of the 2008 panic), I was not facing much of an exit tax liability itself.
Once I had the passports in hand, but well before I had finished financial preparations, I made the first of the two visits to a US embassy or consular office abroad required for the actual renunciation process.
On the first visit, you must allow the consular staff to inform (lecture?) you about the "grave" consequences and irrevocability of what you seek to do; and you must assert to them that you understand what you are doing, that you really do intend to do so, and do not expect to retain any rights or privileges of US citizenship.
However, you are not allowed to complete the renunciation process at that first visit. You must go away for at least a short while and then come back on a second appointment, "to be sure you really want to do this."
In my case, the consular official whom I met with on that first visit did not try very much to dissuade me, nor did I have any difficulty convincing her that I had thought about it extensively and knew what I was seeking to do.
Another half-year elapsed before I finished all the required property transfers into irrevocable trusts (to avoid Section 2801 gift/inheritance tax), after which I was finally ready for my actual expatriation appointment.
There are actually two somewhat distinct procedures by which you can give up US citizenship: relinquishment or renunciation. The State Department forms and consular staff procedures are similar, but not identical, for both ways.
Renunciation is the more affirmative way, and may be preferable for that reason alone.
Professional and informal advisors have differing opinions on which is better—and even whether there's any substantive difference at all—apart from the $450 fee now required for a Renunciation filing (no fee at all is currently required for filing a Relinquishment—if one is in a position to choose that route).
There are no differences in IRS/tax consequences, and it's said that the State Department makes no distinction between those who relinquish versus those who renounce.
But the fact remains that there are the two different procedures, and some knowledgeable people do recommend relinquishment (if one's situation permits using that method) instead of renunciation.
Be aware though that pursuing a relinquishment requires the applicant to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the State Department people involved (both in the embassy/consular office and the application reviewers in Washington), that the applicant's "potentially expatriating act" (which is usually the act of obtaining citizenship in another country) was truly done "with the intent to give up US citizenship" at the time of "performing the potentially expatriating act."
In contrast, making a renunciation filing, which involves performing an Oath of Renunciation before a consular officer, provides convincing prima facie evidence of intent to give up US citizenship.
The State Department may reject a renunciation filing only if there's clear evidence that the applicant was under some sort of duress to take the oath, or that the would-be renunciant intends to retain any prerogatives of US citizenship (such as continuing to reside in the US without obtaining any residency visa/permission as an "alien").
Because so much time had elapsed since my first visit, I had to re-do it. Mercifully, the consular staff allowed me to return quite soon for the actual renunciation process.
There are numerous reports of delays of weeks to months in getting appointments (for either or both of the two required visits) at many of the busier embassies. I have personal knowledge of an embassy in a major Asian city requiring a two-week interval between an applicant's first and second renunciation visit regardless of how full or slack its appointment calendar was.
A note about embassy/consular office practices: The expatriation requirements and procedures are stated in fairly thorough detail in in Volume 7, chapter 12 of the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM).
In practice though, each embassy/consular office seems to operate with a fair amount of discretion.
As just one example, FAM explicitly states that an embassy or consular office must allow any US citizen to expatriate who applies there to do so. Yet I was told by consular staff in one major Asian embassy that it refuses to let anyone who is not a legal resident of that country expatriate at that embassy.
Though they're primarily focused on the plight of the many Americans who permanently moved to Canada, the Isaac Brock Society maintains an excellent website. It keeps an extensive—if anecdotally based—log of people's expatriation experiences at various embassies/consular offices around the globe.
The actual process of formally doing the renunciation was straightforward and was conducted without any further hassle or delay at my next appointment.
Stay tuned for the second (and final) part of this story. It has specific details about the renunciation process as well as the author's personal experiences dealing with US officials during and after the process.
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"...but who in the HELL wants to go to USA? Nigerians, ... that's about it..."
That comment insults a couple of families we know who "won the Green Card Lotto". They are very happy here, their young adult children are hard at work...
"only cause criminals love the USA." <--- What kind of crap is that?
You're partly off the mark this time, Satoshi. The value in getting a passport like Dominican is more than just having an alternative in case war or fascism comes to the land of your first. A Dominican passport can be easily and cheaply attained, and re-attained. The additional value there is that, if you are then going to acquire citizenship in a country like Japan or Taiwan, which requires the surrendering of a passport to acquire, then the Dominican passport may be used and then re-acquired via the same original (simple) process.
Casey migrates, but remains a US citizen. Think about it....
Doesn't the utility suit him better to have more baskets in which to keep his eggs?
"fairly hardcore libertarian worldview"
And from that point forth, I continued to read with a smirk and a grain of salt.
$100,000 investment for Dominican citizenship? Screw that.
Anybody paying that much is a sucker who probably deserves to be chumped, unless he's got so much cash it really doesn't matter. It's like hiring a lawyer for an insurance claim that you could technically make by yourself. Arrive to the Dominican, speak to a local lawyer, and lop a zero or more off the price tag. Doing it the normal way will take three years (buying three consecutive business-resident visas), annual visits to renew the visas, and an interview when you apply for the passport. Habla some español, bitchez.
1. Go to Logos, Nigeria
2. Get legit new papers for a rub and a couple brown envelopes.
3. Fill your boat with your AU and go sailing for a weekend
4. Pass away in a tragic boating accident. Gold is never recovered.
5. Go to St. Kitts and apply for a second passport under Nigerian name.
6. Never pay a dime in exit tax to the IRS
7. Start your new life as a FreeMan
Along those lines, there are specialized companies in several countries (Mexico and Brazil come to mind), where you can "die", they make sure to put notices in the local newspapers, send condolence letters to the USA, etc. You are, essentially, "legally dead".
Those outfits, though, do not kill you! You pay, they have the burial, etc. all publicized, and, voila! You're gone!
>>>...there are specialized companies in several countries..., where you can "die".
Any links.... or at least hints? Or do I just turn up in Rio and look for a shady advogato in the Yellow Pages?
Its mostly all balls and posturing. if you look like a dumb American you'll find yourself in a sticky situation real quick. Things work differently in the rest of the world. If your serious expect to spend some serious coin. I've never been to Rio but basically you buy a ticket and figure the rest when you get there. If you think you can buy services online your asking to get ripped off.
Jeff Berwick is affiliated with several immigration consultants if you want to go digging that's a good start. I personally can't vouch for these guys so do your due diligence. If you decide to go wing it start by looking for a western educated local lawyer in whichever country.
"Get legit new papers for a rub and a couple brown envelopes."
Any better description of the transaction?
No. You're talking about the Presi - dent, stooopid !
Exchanging one citizenship for another is kinda redundant and backwards. We live in a virtual age and the future belongs to a virtual membership to any community you'd like to associate yourselves with and support with donations.
The sentiment is mutual.
"Another imperative for me has been the maxim "silence implies consent"—that is, by not acting (especially now that I was in a reasonably good position to do so) to separate myself from the manifest evils of the regime in DC, I would continue granting it my consent.'"...
Another perspective perhaps? Throwing the burden in the direction of everyone else that has to carry the load in changing "it" -especially when that passport of the home you wish to discard is also the same one that is the "root" or should I say rot of so much evil in the World. Being American always had so many advantages but still carries with it so much baggage in the guilt of it's indiscretions for those that choose to stay or go.
Just imagine where this Country would be if the likes of MLK and JFK or Ron Paul for that matter decided to take their talents elsewhere (which they easily could have done) to flee the Country that was at that time the biggest manufacturer in the World and also the most malevolent (and still is) superpower! They saw the problems and the direction the Country was headed in all those years ago and chose to sacrafice so much to be the force of change for the better. I think Tom Paine would have been proud of the two I just mentioned?
Several ways to look at this statement but it's still a polite way of saying I'm a cop out.
All these "down arrows"...
Wouldn't have it any other way!
Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Gives Up U.S. Citizenship
Being very, very rich gives you two incentives: you have more to protect in a place like Singapore, and life is easier there with $$$...
He's Brazilian. Born in Sao Paulo.
Sao Paulo is the INTL play ground for gay men.
Just sayin.
More along the lines of some countries don't feel the need to tax your capital gains which have already been taxed several times when building a business. US Capital Gains taxes are some of the highest in the world, why should he keep the US Passport if it is only to get screwed out of 1/3rd of his income?
"But the unremitting ferocity with which mainstream Republicans opposed our every effort led me to renew my efforts to abandon the sinking ship."
If everyone who thought this renewed their efforts against said Republicans we could take control of the whole damned party and then destroy the statism from within the same way the statists destroyed America.
There are always going to be pockets of intelligent people around, you just have to look for them and work with them. Bailing to a banana republic and playing the Revo is a fools act.
If you are a white man you are making a major, life-altering mistake renouncing U.S. citizenship for a brown country. It is not your place and you are throwing away one of the few advantages fate is giving to the common man while the world turns into an electronic cage -- you are throwing away your birthright and the familiarity of your own tribe.
Look to the much older races and civilizations. No right-thinking far east asian, for example, would consider doing something so stupid. The Anonymous writer here is high on his own supply, thinking he is a pilgrim and footloose. If you are from a failed state, like say India, you probably should renounce but the U.S. is still far from that. You want to see a failed state look no further than our Southern brethren; or the P.I. or any of the dozen paradises these badasses are trying to flog in their newsletters.
You step just a few blocks off the edge of your DR or Mexican or Thai gated community and you have people living above their chickens and shitting in the pond. Right now he is still enjoying the cheap beer and senoritas; been there done that and it will get old, Senor.
Foolish, foolish thing to do. But thanks for acting as a poster child for the rest of us.
Excellent and wise comments.
Particular those involving race and culture.
Learn the language.
Assimilate with the locals, become one of them
Marry a local gal, and make a few critters, locals love the 1/2&1/2 baby's.
Drink with the local guys ..
Learn the fucking language,
Do NOT live in another place where there is another asshole ex-pat in 100KM radius, nothing is worse than EX-PATS the locals hate them, they're rude, they fondle the women, make crude remarks to the children, everybody fucking hates them, if there is an ex-pat coming to your place and the locals see him come to your house, that makes you an asshole.
I cannot stress enough, if you live abroad stay away from EX-PATS 99% of the time they are ex-MIL angry fucking assholes, that just want to fight, fuck, and drag you into jail with them.
***
Hell yes if you go to a 3rd world country and live/build in a gated-community, you best go back to ASPEN and eat dog shit.
If you want to survive and prosper abroad you must display no more wealth than the poorest man in your village, make them pity you, not envy you. ENVY always leads to an early death.
Become involved the local religion, I teach at the the temples, and this makes them love you even more.
***
There is a lot of good stuff you can do and have a great fucking life, ... I mean just sleeping with a beautiful woman 1/2 your age that wants to fuck will make you 50 years younger :)
Eating local food will prevent all kinds of health problems, in the USA I always have constipation and Hemorrhoids, eating rice and fresh veggies everyday and fresh fish, I never have a fucking problem.
[ Most like this is because white-flour is bad, and the Beef & LAMB, is bad, ... In asia they eat fish, pig, and chicken. Most food eaten in the west causes terrible COLON problems. ]
Walk and ride a bicycle like locals, fuck the car or motorcycle bullshit.
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99% can't do it, ... and again, don't give up your citizenship, because that Social-Security check means you can be a member of the FSA in paradise.
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The problem with 'gated community' abroad They're just seen as A PRISON for assholes by those on the outside, and they're seen as a shopping mall by criminals.
Ergo all these 'galt gulches' being sold so ex-pats can circle jerk each other are a fraud, go where no ex-pat goes and make your own galt's gulch.
Amen, the average expat can manage to live for years in a foreign country without ever learning the language. These expat "communities" are also crawling with LE looking for on the run convicts and locals looked for White Suckers to rip off. STAY away from the English speaking areas.
The trick is in your persona, You don't have to get sprung and make babies to fit in but if its a small village don't be the ugly duckling. In a town of 8,000 everyone knows everyone else. Be wary of acquiring a negative reputation.
I will not live in a village with more than 100 people.
Enough said.
The odds of an FBI/IRS 'LE' agent even coming within 500KM is zero.
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I get sick to my stomach listening to ex-pats whine about how lonely they are for drinking buddy's,,
FUCK I would rather get drunk with the locals' any day,
1.) They know how to have a good time on a $1/day budget,
2.) THey always have access to the most beautiful women,
Ex-pats always meet their women at whore-houses or bars, funny that local's don't even care that the ex-pats takes these "UN-WANTED" women.
China is FULL of 40 year old virgins, ... who are beauty's and believe ME a 40 year old virgin is hornier than hell, most these old whores that have been working since 10 years old hate sex by the time they're 30. Just saying.
That is pretty damn remote. Props, I've never gone that far. How do you get online?
satoshi, excellent post!!! After spending 4 years in West Africa, in more or less remote areas, I can't emphasis enough how true your words are!! especially about the locals which I came to love, and the beautiful ladies!!
In Thailand you can be married to a local, have kids, and not even get a visa to stay more than three months. Forget about a work permit. Legal marriage means nothing. Always have to go on a visa run, or be over 50. If you are over 50 you are not going to learn a foreign language. Someone should do a study on that. Over 50 brains have zero capacity to learn to assimilate.
There is so much racism against white people in Asia it's something most can not comprehend. It's best not to learn the local language, sometimes I wish I hadn't. As you say locals love 50/50 kids, FUCK that bs. Why don't you ask the 50/50 kids how they like being stared at constantly and being singled out. Really terrible for the kids, they are treated like ZOO ANIMALS in every respect. I can hardly take my 50/50 kids to Asia because I feel so bad for them. Can't stand the way Asians act around 50/50 kids especially my own.
So you are in the middle of nowhere living among only locals fucking a woman half your age and say all the locals love you for being a white guy with no money. It's doesn't add up every Asian thinks white guys have lots of money. And if you are in their country, you can't stay unless you keep a lot of money in their bank.
You need to have your head examined!
On the other hand, the Russians that left Russia when the Bolsheviks took over, did a lot better than those who stayed; especially if they had some jewelry they could sell off, or gold and silver.
Great Post. Agree with you 100%. Spent years working,sailing and living in other countries. It's not fair or logical sometimes but there are sometimes advantages to your racial makup and sometimes disadvantages. One thing for sure, racism is everywhere and you need all the favors you can get based on your unchosen race.
The bottom line is live where and how you feel comfortable. For me it would be way to much trouble to opt out of my citizenship. Dual citizenship makes more sense.
Pro and Con to every decision in seeking a new life and home somewhere other than Uncle Sam's crib and the debate from either end is too significant to look at from one viewpoint, especially when this Country is hemorrhaging so much talent at such a critical period in it's history. You raise good points.
To your "banana republic" comment -let's be realistic.
We're hated for making that title and those conditions a reality in every place we set foot, and this is always the biggest hurdle to clear given our track record. I think I've said before when you're an American and you want to set up shop in other places outside the homestead -be careful what you wish for given the baggage you carry being "Gringo"... To those that make it a fair, honest and equitable business proposition for the host countries they decide to settle and work in -my hats off to them as you can pretty much count them on one hand!
Someone please help me understand the preponderance of energy given to exit taxes... Once wheels have been set in motion to leave, the only downside I see to transferring all your assets to a foreign jurisdiction without paying any taxes whatsoever includes:
1. You become a criminal in the United States, thereby putting your freedom in jeopardy whenever again setting foot on American soil;
2. If your new bank has branches in the U.S. and / or has exposure to U.S. business, then your assets could be in jeopardy should the IRS really, really, really want to go after you.
But if you opt for a local bank with little or no U.S. footprint and don't intend to visit U.S. territory again, then for the life of me I cannot fathom why you'd want to deal with exit taxes. Or repudiating your U.S. citizenship for that matter. Just fuckin' leave and don't come back. Am I missing something?
nope. I know a lot of americans wno say just leave works if you are not wanted as a person of interest and you don't ever go back or keep your assets there. There is some risk theoretically for them, say when they renew their passports, so most of them are working towards a second passport the poor man's way, by putting in their five years resdency.
They can have my citizenship back when I'm dead. Not enough time in my life screw with it.
I'm thinking.....may be hard to get a Visitor's Visa to the US if you want to visit AND
Exit tax is a bitch - value all your assets as though sold on exit, therefore tax (ordinary income tax?) on appreciated real estate, stocks etc.
Maybe also retirement accounts, IRAs etc must be dissolved and attract income tax.
Any US income (but not worldwide income) continues to be taxed
(Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of these.)
MY TWO CENTS
1.) Don't DO IT, ... the PTB would love nothing more that you leave, and not claim your social security check.
2.) Soverieign Man all these fuckheads are running out of MIAMI selling newsletters and bullshit, they wouldn't know anything about outside of the USA.
***
Last I looked to renounce your US Citizenship it was 10-15 year wait, you could be DEAD. Also TOTAL FUCKING bullshit, this guys is full of it, in all most all cases you have to BUY a new passport, better just to go to ISRAEL and tell them your grandmother was Jewish, 1/2 the judges and politicians in the USA have dual ISRAEL/USA citizenship.
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I know 1,000's of EX-PATS done this shit for 20+ years, live abroad, and I can count the guys the renounced on less than one hand.
Urban fucking MYTH, ... collect what's YOUR's I certainly do, with what I get in Social Security, over $1200/month sent to my USD USA account I can support the entire village where I live. :)
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JUST MORE BULLSHIT BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE US GUBMINT.
Uh....what?....
Maybe. If your Political its better to not be found. Depends how you spend your time. For people who want to play the big game, I recommend disappearing without a trace.
What and give up your free money?
Shit, I'm no fool, anytime I can get $1200 or more deposited in my account every month, that way exceeds my personal allowance,
Stingy old bastard I am,...
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You don't have to tell them your not in the USA, in fact its better if you don't, you just tell them to DEPOSIT our $$$ in the USA account, my gawd I have to be explicit, even though I already mentioned this above.
***
Hell I can do good with this money and give it to Orphans and such where I live.
I paid in a lot of bucks to the US Government, more than I'll ever get back.
Thanks, but I'll take my Social-Security while they still send it out.
I respect that, to be honest right now i take what i can get as well. I'm active at the local level and even here you start pissing people off and the police start following you home, I had to pass up a chance to get into the big game, national players and the like because i couldn't protect myself. Its all big fish eating the little fish. When you start getting a name out two things happen.
People want to know where your from and how to own you. If your not air tight, and i mean spotless, you'll find yourself swallowed by a big fish. They'll stick their hand up your ass and play with you like a chess piece.
If i was living the simple life I would keep taking the cut. I'm not and I can't. If I'm tied together and keep at this path I'll find myself on a no fly list and have bigger things to worry about. Like I say if your political and want to play the big game then you have to walk away from a lot more than money. The value of anonymity is worth a shit ton more than 1,200 a month when the time comes to make a quick exit.
I have to add a thought. Forgive me if I'm being impertinent.
I am a natural-born citizen of the United States (unlike Barry Soetoro). No, I am not a citizen of the Washington, D.C. NWO Zionist establishment known as the United States of America (Incorporated 1876); I am a citizen of the Constitutional Republic.
If you want to run away and hide from what's coming (or rather, from what is already metastisizing), that is your priveledge. HOWEVER, this tyranny is everywhere, on every continent, and in every nation now, whether or not you wish to accept it.
In a long enough timeline, everything eventually equals ZERO (according to this website's creators). You cannot run from death, nor can you run from adversity if you wish to truly be alive. When it comes time for death, I shall not be regretful that I RAN AWAY FROM ADVERSITY in my free exersize of my inalienable rights given to me by my Creator (that I acknowledge, along with the Founders of MY nation).
Many so-called 'brave souls' brag about arms and brass, but none have taken the simple steps of re-reading the Constitution this day. Some talk about the false left-right paradigms of 'political actors', and are therefore enslaved with the false hope of a 'political' solution.
SOME, however, RUN AWAY, and to those, I say THIS:
Summer soldiers are those that see a side start to win, and therefore join the cause BECAUSE they don't want to be on the losing side; but WINTER soldiers are those like the ones who joined Washington, freezing to death crossing the Delaware River; lo those two and a half centuries ago; who sacrificed everything to insure the promise and the realization of the Free States for their proginy. I choose to live up to their sacrifice, and not become a COWARD.
Yeah, I can see the 'downvotes' already....
If you want to run away and hide from what's coming (or rather, from what is already metastisizing), that is your priveledge. HOWEVER, this tyranny is everywhere, on every continent, and in every nation now, whether or not you wish to accept it.
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NOT FUCKING true, just because the USA has gone FULL NAZI RETARD don't fucking assume everyone else has, get off your ass and travel.
Fuck ITALY is still paradise, if you have the money, and so is GREECE&SPAIN, and PORTUGAL,
MARC FABER is fond of saying "NO MAN SURVIVES A CIVIL WAR"
A civil war is coming to the USA, get far away, this is not about anything else than intelligence, ...me thinks MScott is US GUBMINT BOT.
The USA has gone FULL NOTSEE RETARD?
Last I checked we had not issued a labor backed currency and booted out the banksters...cue the WW2 dogma holohoax stories and "Hitler was a Rothschild agent" disinfo.
"History is the propaganda of the victors." -Ernst Toller
Here, watch my 6 minute video (pun intended), you may learn something! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5QlWJUk4-o
I setup a bugout deal in Sweden. Planning business there now, purely because I wanted to have an out if necessary, and it's turned into more than I ever expected.
Swedes are very kind and fair, and they are good at business but welcome any competition so it's a fair playing field.
Are taxes high? Of course but not as high as people want you to believe, and you are getting a great deal of safe secure peaceful living. Great place to raise a famiy. I thank you Sweden for being there. Any Swedes reading this, thank you.
What kind of xenophobic asshole downvotes a gracious comment like that?
I'm a Swedish citicen and I appreciate very much the opportunities Sweden gave me.
I left Sweden purely because of the miserable climate that made me sick 8 months of the year.
The Swedish passport is something I will never give up, zero problems with taxman or any other authority.
Renew passport every 5 years, driving license every 10 years without problems(if you live in EU country you need to apply for local driving license).
Since my job involves travel half the year, I just get the turist visa on arrival to my new "home country", valid 6 months, and they don't bother me at all.
For 40 years I have been listening the americans talking down the socialist Scandinavia contra the free USA, who's free now?
But I have to add, the course the governments in Sweden have taken last 15 years is slowly breaking up the country.
Too many immigrants that don't want to be Swedish, tax money wasted and frauded in private elderly care and schools, all for the 1% assholes.
The school system that I have so much to thank for is in decay for political purity and greed reasons.
The international ranking free fall tells the true story.
Still 100 times better then the country I live in but I don't have to freeze my ass off and since I don't pay taxes or inflated house prices, I can afford private schools.
You can thanks this cunt, Barbara Spectre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Vq_e2Z1ug
@satoshi,
No, twerp, I'm not from 'that' government.
ITALY? REALLY? SERIOUSLY?
The home of Mussolini, and the Vatican? THAT italy?
what is cowardice but the body's awareness of its own weakness?
AMERICA! We'll kill you in your sleep on Christmas.
Jealous!
This entire article is a fabrication and I am writing Casey off my list for the duration.
If our Homme du Monde has the savoire faire to maintain "apartments" in "Asia" then why in the world, literally, would he settle on a wetback shit-hole like the D.R. when presumably he has Singapore, H.K. or even Thailand in play?
"Having evolved philosophically in my adulthood ... " Spare me this crock of utter shit. And to my earlier rant let me add this; I spoke only of covering your ass; to say nothing of the fact that may occur to you that you owe something more to your land and your people and your birthright, then to pull out and brag about it.
I'm telling that to all my buddy's who are ready to bail, all my friends in the USA are scared as shit, and asking me where is best PERU, LIMA, CHILE, or PANAMA,
I tell them FUCK that shit, ... those LATIN country's will blow back when the USA goes civil-war, get as far as you can from the USA, think NZ, or AUSTRALIA,
China only works if you love the culture and can speak the language, ... given most guys are too lazy to learn a language then by all means go to NZ or AUST, if you got the $500K USD, ... most my friends do.
Dumb comment. The guy indicates that he has maybe 3 million in assets and an income. How much does it cost to maintain an "apartment in Asia?" And BTW, Dominica is not the DR (Dominican Republic). Very diferent place. And it is quite a beautiful smaillish island and the people there are cool and most of them speak English.........sort of. Very strong dialect. Makes Bob Marley sound like an Oxford don. I see no reason to think the article was fabricated.
Most 'apartments' in ASIA cost me about $15/month,... what's the big point here?
I used to maintain apartments is few city's but I found that I hate the city's so much I quit doing so, but 'maintaining' a fucking ROOM, is cheap, ... so cheap its meaningless.
It's nice when you go to the CITY to have a coffee maker waiting for you, and not fuck with a hotel, or to know if you have woman, that you have a choice, take her to a hotel first and then decide later if you want to take her to your 'real place'.
But still if a guy travels a lot, keeping an apartment in a city,.. at most might cost you $200/year or less, so fucking what?
THis way your clothes are waiting for you in the box, see when asians travels they just carry small hand-bags, not this fucking western 100LB shit,... so its quite nice to live such that you can just walk out your door head to the big city and have it all waiting for you,.e.g. your village clothes at the village, and your city clothes waiting in the city.
For a lot of guys a SOLO run to the city without the WIFE, is sweet :)
Satoshi, you are raving this evening. We are talking about white boys here chum ... where are you talking about, renting for $15 ? $200 a year? Where? Under a staircase somewhere?
The women are babes in Sing or say HK. What are you talking about.
I won't argue you can set yourself up well some places in the PRC if you are a Chinese; I am just saying that most here cannot do that, don't have the language skillset. There is more English spoken in Sing or HK and the remnant of British custom make them easier for a cracker to deal with.
If you're out there in Yunnan riding up & down the hills, that would be most excellent indeed.
Shit in HK even the police women are babes :) RIght? :)
But I can't stand the place, crowds make me fucking unsettled.
Happier than shit on a mountain like 'king kong' watching the sunset in paradise.
FUCK URBAN HELL, USA, SINGAPORE, OR HK, or ANYWHERE man covers the earth with concrete.
***
Dude, village women are PURE in beauty, they don't smoke, they don't drink, they don't breath bad air, their hair doesn't smell like exhaust, PURE 100% beauty
City women always have smelly cunts, and talk about money.
I don't fuck city girls, ... been there did that.
The way you describe women, I'm not so sure you're totally into them dude.
Yeah I read it too fast, missed the Dominica ref.
I think this is armchair nonsense and Casey or someone is flogging a package deal for which this article is serving as an infomercial.
Another POINT missed here is when you go to a NEW country they will fuck you too.
SO that's why you have to TRIANGULATE
1.) That means you bail the USA
2.) Your ass say goes to CHINA
3.) You stash your money in SINGAPORE, out of the hands of the chinese and the USA nazi's.
Anything else is fucking stupid,
I see a lot of comments here that pre-suppose you move your loot from the USA to your destination, here's problem, shit changes, tomorrow CHINA could tell the ex-pats to go, and they'll make you go, and keep your money.
Keep your money in INTL easy places like SINGAPORE or SWISS, but these places are too expensive to live, and the 1/2 your age GAL is not available, ... unless your stupid rich.
Satoshi, I would say stash (a good chunk of) the money in the PRC and go to Singapore; if you have the wherewithal. I personally do not but neither am I hunting around. I am staying here.
China is too toxic. Where would you suggest living in the PRC ? You will remove years from your life expectancy in many places in the mainland.
The advantage though is that the PRC is NOT playing ball with the FATCA regs and that makes its banks attractive. You can maintain an account at the PBOC with a US passport in USD or Yuan; and probably a few others.
Switzerland sings to the US tune, so I hear.
The mistresses in SING are not that expensive. There is fine royal jelly to be had, to speak frankly. You can't get it easily in the West because of the Taliban restrictions.
YUNAN is one of the remotest places on earth and mountain country here rivals anything in the TETON's,
That's why I'm always saying that the world is full of PARADISE.
Study the "HUMP" the story about how the US-MIL air-lifted it's supply's to the KUN-MING-TANG nazi's that we're fighting MAO, those rugged mountains between INDIA and CHINA are known as "SHANGRI-LA"
The world is full of beautiful places, most the villges near me the old women openly sell 'smoke' at the market. That's how easy life is, ...
What's on your mind BEIJING? Smog?
Essentially the CHINESE haven't invested a DIME in YUNAN forever, its still like the 16th century in Southern China.
***
I'm not advocating this life style for anyone, I'm just saying that there are many places in CHINA more clean that the cleanest place in the USA.
Thanks Satoshi, I appreciate that. I have been to Kunming once; I like the Golden Triangle area and would consider it if I feel I have to.
Check out Xi-Shang-Banna, its the THAILAND of CHINA, and the people are DAI, and everyone accepts that they're still living like Thai's did 50 years ago ... SWEET and the food is great,
South of xi-shang-banna is villges by the 1,000's all famous because the custom is the girls have to fuck every man in the village, in order to decide who they want to marry, by their choice :")
A great custom if you ask me the girls never cheat after they get married, cuz they already know they chose the best fuck in town.
***
I don't care for KUNMING these days I mean its ok they banned GAS motorcycles, ... but its too big I never go there, stay in the fucking villages, ... even for me it takes 3-4 days of travel to get to KUNMING.
About 250 miles west of KUNMING its starts getting real beautiful and stays beautiful for a 1,000 miles.
NOW I will diss you bitch :)
Fuck SINGAPORE, banking is ok, the women SUCK, the city sucks, .... Expensive as all HELL. Fuck I can live for a year where I live, for what one day sits me back in Singapore.
Sure if your a rich guy who likes to shove FOIE-GRAS up his ass and finger bang little girls,... more power to you, go live with Jimmy Rogers in a Singapore,
For me I want to live like a man, ride horses in the mountains and sleep outside every night with a warm woman. Drink with the locals guys at night and make music and dance under the stars.
FUCK THE GOD-DAMN URBAN JUNGLE and POLLUTION.
“Do not sleep under a roof. Carry no money or food. Go alone to places frightening to the common brand of men. Become a criminal of purpose. Be put in jail, and extricate yourself by your own wisdom.”
- Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings
I too am a Samurai in spirit, this is what brought me to Remote China in the first place, after my first 5 years in CHINA I realized that all CITY martial arts where bullshit.
In remote villages they train 12 hours a day, 200 miles south of Beijing
Where I live now in mountains they train 18 hours a day.
In the city's they go to the 'park' and train maybe an hour a day, ... but mostly drink tea and talk about training.
Musashi had it right,...
***
Why Train? So that an 80 year old can beat up a 20 year old and then fuck his girlfriend. "The purpose of martial arts is live a long and healthy life"
Enough Said. The art its purest form never changes, just that in ancient samurai, everyone was gay, and they only fucked women to make baby's,... IMHO most Chinese Masters I have ever known like Pussy.
Never fell much for Jap martial art's did em all for years, but I get bored of being on my knees. Too much like catholic church,...
My master swore to the warriors code, Bushido. He belonged to the last generation of real men in this world. That being said all "western martial arts" disciplines are weak shit. These days I'll walk into a Dojo in America with a challange or to spar with the advanced class and all of a sudden the insurance doesn't cover it and everyone has the flu. Mas Oyama was the last real fighter in the public eye. As far as "going galt" No profession has disappeared from the public the same way the martial artists have. Look what happened to Anderson Silva. Muy Thai practitioners train for years hitting their shins against trees and with rocks so that it don't break. A friend of mine went to compete in a full contact tournament in Japan and he received a compound-fracture blocking a chest level side kick.
I used to train so hard I would cough up blood and break down in massive fevers. Respect to all the real martial artists keeping the torch lit. I personally have dedicated my life to "the way" but I'm up to my neck in things i need to do first. i dream of going back to that life... To wake up at 4:30 every morning and practice katas till 9 at night... There is this spiritual peace that settles in after you get into the routine... Its not something i can describe...
There's nothing to describe. I don't practice martial arts, but I think I know the place from whence you came. I usually go for the throat/solar plexis. In that order. If that doesn't work, I go for the gonads.
I never had to fight a female, though. I have met a few that that could kick my ass.
FATCA hates MALAYSIA, if your worried by the IRS or FATCA do Malaysia,
There are more IRS/FBI field-agents now in CHINA/RUSSIA/INDIA offices than in the USA.
The MOST important thing is to stay off the RADAR, keep a low profile.
Yep, you go live in BEIJING/SHANGHAI or any big city on earth flash the cash and talk the shit, ... remember the ex-pat bars world over are now FULL of IRS/FBI agents looking for MONEY to send back to the USA>
***
Swiss can be done, go there and meet face to face, shop until you find a friendly banker.
***
Your money must be LIQUID, banking in CHINA is like a lock-box in my mind, ... this is why these people are buying BTC's so they can diversify into HKD, or CHF, or SGD.
Best banking is SWISS, SINGAPORE, or HK; because they sweet electronic xfer with no hassle, anywhere in the world.
***
USA is the most polluted place in the world, with the most criminals and killers, fuck this notion that CHINA ain't beautiful.
***
SINGAPORE women only want money,... village women want children and love and a man that will sleep with them every night and not wander off.
Musachi & Satoshi 101.. Thank you for your discussion here. You are both very interesting, and I enjoyed reading your entries much more than I cared for the main article. Thank you again for your insights.
Movin’ On 2014
We speak advisedly, standing at the intersection CARREFOURS,
In the city, in the country, wherever cross purposes collide
Sometimes violently.
Here in the West, perhaps too in the East – who really knows?! –
We consider “fight” or “flight” as two main avenues,
Exits, if you will, one way or other, dead or alive,
Dichotomies that survive us, right or wrong, then or now,
Or WHENEVER, as some of our children say,
Blowing us off and away, sometimes forever.
I have discovered, I think, other routes at this kind of juncture,
Which I shall attempt to share here, some day travel myself,
When I have finally chosen for good my own way,
As have others from whom we hear, occasionally,
Anonymously.
For example, we might, and often, feign blithe ignorance,
Actively do nothing, stick heads in sand or worse, the same.
Resignation, self-immolation, meditation, accommodation,
Those ways to stay put, kaput, at best a sacrificial lamb.
Consequences tell it all, no difference in means,
When one assesses their predictable, inevitable ends.
Extrapolation, transcendence, enlightened transference,
Pragmatic transitions, call North American Van Lines!
Now we speak a different language all together!
Tell me, what is your word for water?
What is your word for bread?
For deliverance?
May I have a pillow when I go to bed
In your country?
I feel so grateful, I’ll wash your floors
For freedom.
ACD 10Jan2014 (just a draft of fresh air wafting through)
Thanks to the author of the posting of Part One, I look forward very much to Part Two,
where no doubt the real rubber meets the road!!
Y'all go ahead if you want to. As for me.......
To the people of Texas & all Americans in the world--Fellow citizens & compatriots--
I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna -- I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man -- The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken -- I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls -- I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch -- The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country -- VICTORY OR DEATH.
William Barret TravisLt. Col. comdt.
I'm with you, Wisehiney. I think there's something here worth fighting for, at least in Texas. As for Doug Casey's little land deal in Salta Province, Argentina, I'll pass. I've looked at his stuff and I've read Ferfal's interpretation as well. Ferfal is believeable. Casey is a wealthy shmuck who's subdividing land with questionable water on the backside of hell in a country with a dictator who will expropriate at some point. Nice web site, though, Doug. Keep pumping. I've seen this movie one too many times. Enjoy the cheap meals. I'll be on the Riverwalk in the Alamo City. Viva la Republica.
You are living delusionally.
Read Howard Zinn's, A People's History of the United States. The Mexican War was the result of one of the first US false flag operations.
Atticus Finch, you are absolutely correct. It is nice to see that someone actually knows some of his country's history and has read Howard Zinn. Yes, it was a massive false flag operation.
Screw it, I am going off-topic and writing about some history.
The whole Texas story is a sordid mess that has been spun into glorious myths that do not address the ugliness of "manifest destiny".
Polk was a narrow-minded bigot who was intent on capturing as much territory in the Southwest as possible. His expansionist designs were based on spurious claims that guided his actions as he pursued his policy. War against Mexico was a foregone conclusion even before he was sworn in as President.
Polk maneuvered American forces in between the Nueces and the Rio Grande and deployed the US Navy off the coast of Mexico, establishing blockades and making excursions into Mexico proper to force the weak and disorganized Mexican government to defend the Mexican territory. Of course, there were battles, and now that he had a cassus belli, he claimed a Mexican attack (the Thornton affair) and presented Congress with a fait accompli.
"The cup of forbearance had been exhausted even before the recent information from the frontier of the Del Norte [Rio Grande]. But now, after reiterated menaces, Mexico has passed the boundary of the United States, has invaded our territory and shed American blood upon the American soil. She has proclaimed that hostilities have commenced, and that the two nations are now at war.".
Anyone remotely interested in this false flag should look up Abraham Lincoln's "show me the spot" insistence, and John Quincy Adam's, Henry Clay's, John C. Calhoun's and Daniel Webster's thoughts and writings on the matter.
As far as the "Texans" go, by 1829, as a result of the large influx of U.S. immigrants, sponsored by the Mexican government, Anglos actually outnumbered the native Spanish speakers in the Mexican province of Texas. The Mexican government decided to reinstate the property tax, increase tariffs on U.S. shipped goods, and prohibit slavery.
Of course, the settlers and squatters rejected the demands, and Mexico closed Texas to additional immigration. However, immigration into the Texas territory continued illegally from the United States.
On March 2, 1836, they decided to carve out Texas from Mexico for themselves and declared independence.
They overwhelmingly wanted immediate admission to the Union, but their overtures were rebuffed, because the Union could not work out a compromise for admittance.
Texas was not a "republic" out of principle, they became a republic out of necessity, with one of the major sticking points in Congress being that Texas would alter the balance of slave states vs free states, among other things. The compromise of 1850 resolved many of these matters for a few years, until the American Civil War exploded.
Davey Crockett and Jim Bowie, among many others, did not give their lives to defend slavery. If that's your view of Texas history, you don't get it. People were coming to Texas to build lives and communities from all over the world. A lot of them were German, Czech, and French/Swiss, and many more from Tennesee,, Kentucky and elsewhere in America. All of them were pioneers taking on the huge challenge of starting from nothing. Enter the Mexican dictator who brutally attacked Texas garrisons and yes, the people rose up in revolt to defend their freedom.
Just because people lived under Mexican rule didn't mean they couldn't throw off that rule in defense of liberty. Someday it may happen again, against an unjust U.S. federal government.
I did not say or imply that they "gave their lives to defend slavery"; You are merely reading what you want into it.
Yet, since you bring it up, it is worth mentioning that they were all good 'ol boys that were perfectly cool with enslaving other humans. Bowie and many others personally owned slaves and trafficked in the flesh.
And? and? You believe we're so ignorant to view history through your convenient 21st Century eyes?
What the fuck are you talking about with the "21st century eyes" horse-shit? William Lloyd Garrison was a fucking contemporary of Crockett and his slaver buddies... in fact he (Garrison) founded "The Liberator" 4 years BEFORE the Battle of the Alamo.
Fuck-knucklles who think that everyone was OK with slavery until Lincoln made his bullshit speech (which only freed slaves in "states in rebellion") really need to fucking read a book (or a webpage). France and England had outlawed ther slave trade (but not slavery itself) by 1807, and abolished slavery itself in 1833... three years before Crockett and his slaver pals tried to steal some of Mexico's land.
France actually abolished both in 1792 - a generation and a half before the Alamo, and almost 3 generations beforethe US Civil War - but it was reinstated by Napoleon in 1802 and was eventually re-outlawed in 1848.
Abolitionism is not a 21st century notion - it was a late-18th-century notion (for people who weren't fucktards) that took hold in the 19th century (with the US the LAST among the major nations to outlaw it - fucking PERSIA outlawed slavery before the US did).
So looking back "with 18th century non-fucktard eyes" suffices.
The Mexican govt wanted the Americans there to buffer between Mexico and the Commanche, Apache and Navajo, from whom they could not defend the territory. The Spanish descendants were retreating from the whole southwest at the time.
You started out with "sordid mess, glorious myths, ugliness". But I did not see any of that in the factuals that you laid out thereafter. Thanks.
wisehiney, I am deeply sorry for not laying the entire record of easily verifiable facts in simple, bite-sized, wikipedia-hyperlinked, digestible pieces, but I really do not feel an overwhelming desire to educate you.
If you do not know or understand the ugliness carried out in the name of manifest destiny; If you do not know or understand that the political and military process in Texas was a sordid mess; If you do not know or understand the gross myth-making and romanticizing of the Alamo, Davy Crockett, and many other tales; I will not explain them to you.
Research it if you are interested and suffer your own reason.
You are welcome.
Yeah, our founders were without fault, and the indigenous people were a peaceful lot who never encroached on each other's territory.
But, Davy Crockett was the one who stood up and said "It's not yours to give". He and Thomas Paine should be on Mt. Rushmore, instead of the fuckheads Borglum was (well paid) to put there.
Sorry to see you go. Best of luck!
The US, to my knowledge is the only country that requires, even if you expatriate, that you pay income taxes to the US.
If it ain't true, somebody disabuse me of this notion.
There are a few others, North Korea, Cuba, etc. But yes, in principal and in the OECD, you're correct, the USA is the only one.
You have a deduction on gross income of roughly $90k.
Say you're earning Euros or CHF, and your salary is generally quoted net due to the insane taxes in Europe.
In Belgium for example, if you take home 3,000 euros a month net, your 'US gross' according to the IRS, with the BS exchange rate due to the low value of the dollar and the local taxes, is $140,000. Congratulations, you are now liable for Alternative Minimum Tax, and you no longer get to claim the 60,000 or so euros you just paid in tax to the Belgian government as a deduction.
3000 euros a month take home is not rich by any stroke of the imagination.
The US, to my knowledge is the only country that requires, even if you expatriate, that you pay income taxes to the US.
If it ain't true, somebody disabuse me of this notion.
This was true for a certain time period.
Under the current expatriation regime, though, once you pay the "exit tax" on all unrealized capital gains, your relationship with the USA and its IRS is done and dusted.
Until your in the wrong place at the wrong time and a US Drone "mistakenly" eliminates everyone in a __ meter blast radius.
Huh, I didn't intend to post that twice, sorry!
I am not satisfied with what is happenning to my country but i have traveled around the world and like other countries even less. I will be 75 in a few weeks and close to the ultimate escape from lifes problems. I will not die in some democrat controlled cesspool so i will not be voting after my death.
Thank you for serving our country. Please put together a memoir of your life & experiences. Many progressives will not like your life story. Fuck them! Carry the baton to help others understand the past. Cheers..
your handle suits you. still falling for the stupid puppet show.
Give this above person a break. Can only regret not jotting down what my grandparents told me in my adolescent years. Wish I had it in writing. The banks are insolvent is what they emphasized. Both retired and handed down a fortune of money. Both experienced the rise and fall of stock market during depression. What always struck me as a kid, they told me about house deed burning parties after owner no longer owed the bank. Buying on credit was a taboo. Everything was cash or short term loan extensions back then.
For minute, I thought you were gonn asay you were from Detroit.
When I was young, I always wondered qhy the Jews stayed in Germany; know that I have gotten older I underdstand.
Remember, as it stands now, US is a nation run from DC. "American" is a country of the people that reside in the same territory claimed by the US nation.
I am an American citizen, not a US subject. DC be damned.
"American, not US!"
I don't wanna know why, I wanna know HOW you renounce your American citizenship.
I don't want to be behind the last one to get out before they open the death camps. I also understand that you are still liable for 10 years of US taxes after said renounciation anywhere in the world you may be. "They will punish you severely for leaving the plantation," Kunta Kinta.
Don't "need" to give up your USC just because you get your second citizenship and passport.
In some cases IRS actually beneficial to have both. Just ask the Sovereign Man. :-)
Many of the south and central americans living as dual Citizens in Miami pay no taxes. Their books in the US show overseas income and taxes, and the other books show US income and taxes. In reality taxes are paid in neither place. Apparently, no one checks on these kinds of things.
If they get too uppity, they'll have to show both books. For those of us that live with a single and legitimate accounting record, making objections to the government has no such problem.
I heard of someone with a clever kid in college for engineering. The tuition is outrageously high. He got laid off from work, collecting unempl. On paper he looks extremely poor. I don't know the specifics but I believe tuition fees of $40k per year for the kid, are basically waived because the parents have no money.
Think about it, if he works then his kid has to borrow $40k per year. Instead his kid gets free univ, needs grant for high achiever.
If he had a pile of gold it would be great too--pop down to the buiiion dealer and get cash whenever needs. This is a type of revenge against the rotten machine that works in your favor more than going to all the trouble to get a St Kitts passport and give the finger to uncle sam.
Socialism! Forward!
There is a resourse for americans wanting to relingquish or renounce
http://renunciationguide.com/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/
I do hope you read some of the comments and hope that you understand what I am going to say is not to denigrate you or anything else.
But you are falling into a trap, you are still following thier rules when you do NOT need to.
I left in 2005 to stay permanently in the Philippines after spending almost 5 years in and out of China and finally staying in China almost all of 2004 and 2005.
I applied for and got a Philippine passport after about a year and it was relatively easy to do.
I paid a guy who could "fix it". About $1,500.
My US passport was getting close to expiring at this time so I called the US Embassy in Guangzhou China and told them I was planning to not renew my passport and giving the address I stayed in Guangzhou. That was over a year earlier when I lived there
After listening to a lot of drivel, and then thinking carefully about it, I realised it was easy to effectively just disappear. Absolutely no US govt employee from any place, Embassy or anywhere else is going to try to find anyone somewhere in a city like Guangzhou to ask any questions.
I had by this time sold all assets in the US and deposited in cash into my acount and was then busy withdrawiing the maximum daily limit every single day from every account, Abut $35,000 a week, it took a couple of months to move everything.
I dropped ie,"accidently" dropped my US passport in a bar in Manila well known as a place to meet "fixers"
I am sure they found a use for it.
I have never contacted nor will ever contact the US embassy again anywhere or will I ever visit the US again, particular as long as the criminally corrupt status quo is in place and especially as long as that filth in the Whitehouse draws his stinking breath.
If anyone asks me now I say I was born in the UK. that I'm English but lived for most of the time in the US.
I have no parapehernia of the USA, ie birth cetificate, documents of any kind linking me to the US as I burnt them all.
I am not a US citizen, I refuse to be one and I refuse to comply with any crap aboout how I determine my decision..
The way I see it is this.
I stopped being a US citizen the moment I decided that. NOT the effin US government.
As in my mind, from that second, I have no reason to deal with the US under ny circumstances.
I am in no doubt that as of now the US govt will consider me an escaped convict or worse a terrorist of some kind.
Therefore I have no compunction about lying to them, leaving false trails or false flags. That is why I left my passport to be found.
It shocks me to the core what has happened to the western world, those govermnets especially in the USA and europe are now your enemies, and I see them as such and will take whatever action it takes to protect myself from THEM.
8 years the trail is long cold and dead now. No bureaucracy, no taxes no hassles. Not once.
I have never been happier. Or for that matter feeling freedom so acutely that it still feels like I escaped slavery.
Do not deal with them If you decide to go, just do it. Do not tell them, just go.
No one will look for you, thats just fearmongering bollox. And whatever you do do not pay any bloody taxes on your way out. Just ay you are going on vacation or a business trip.
Great comment. It sounds like the simplest way to do it. Capital controls are coming. If you are going to do this, do it now.
The problem is that you and your assets will be found - should you wish to live at the US standard of life. Enjoy having to live life in the dark, while the rest of us live life in the light with proper papers.
Crap
Either you are willfully stupid or you are a bureaucrat.
Live in the dark, what a plonker you are to make such a statement.
I have a passport, my assets are wide open, I live in the light and do not jump to attention when some arrogant US poncing bureacrat says so..
And I do not answer to US govt any more than a Chinaman would.
Because if you take the trouble to read and understand what I wrote, I am no longer a card carrying US citizen.
Are you beginning to understand what it is I am trying to tell you now.
Cheers to you brotha! Love the attitude. Here in the US people are too goddamn used to asking permission for everything.
Just do it.
Thank you, I appreciate your commet. Unfortunately the western world has been infantilized.
Boys ask permission.
Men make decisions and ask no one.
It is time the should US decide if it is going to stay a nation of little boys or if its going to be a nation of men again.
I may be digressing here, but so be it. I will tie it together in the end.
I decided that I had had enough of fluorescent lights, traffic, no exposure to nature, and the lack of any real choice of "food". Real food that is.
I took the hit in the retirement accounts, closed out the 401k and bought a 40 acre piece of land. It has 5 springs, plenty of woods, great pasture and great hunting. (I had never hunted anything before).
Now we grow our own food, have non-fluoridated water and provide our own heat. We have chickens, goats, donkeys, and a lake stocked with fish.
I had sat long enough wishing things would change in this country. Ghandi's words came to me, "be the change you want to see", and that's what got me off my ass.
If any of you reading this ever wanted to chuck it all and get busy really living, my advice is just do it.
Our neighbors would do anything for us and we the same for them. They all know what a firearm is for and know when to choose how to use it.
This life may not be for everyone, granted. But I dare say, if you have even thought about doing it, it's for you.
Boys ask permission.
Men make decisions and ask no one.
+1 All the best to you brother. Some of the best posts I have read on ZH.
Americans are endlessly brainwashed by TV and Hollywood plus the rest of the media. They are too lazy to rip the plug out. I bet 70% of ZH posters still watch TV. You watch it or pay for it - you support the brainwashing.
+1000. I have considered renouncing and admire the nerve and moral stand taken by the original poster. Godspeed.
I would be honored to know you. Men are far and few anymore.
That's how a free man would do it.
Your slavemaster and his overseers would claim that you're just a runaway slave (maybe you have drapetomania). If they dropped a dime on you, the overseers in your jurisdiction would return you (just like Northern pigs would help return escaped slaves under the Fugitive Slave Act) and if you resisted they would kill you.
Nevertheless, I admire what you did. One day I hope to do a similar thing myself.
Nor do I: nobody ought to feel obliged to deal truthfully with government. In fact, under the old Canon law principle "fragenti fidem fides frangatur eidem" ("Break faith with those who have broken faith"), folks ought to feel obliged to try to hoax the government at every opportunity, because the political class have shown since the Treaty of Westphalia that they are a pack of lying charlatans, megalomaniacal sociopaths, and parasitic subhumans... no surprise there, since they are the heritors of the social position of the mediaeval clerical aristocracy (another bunch of bullshitters who lived in palaces by force and fraud).
Plus, Arrow's 1950 Impossibility Theorem shows clearly that claims of 'representative' government are a sham, since you can't derive a sensible social welfare function by aggregating individual ordinal preferences. So the 'public will', the 'general welfare' and all other Rousseau-ean nonsense are unknowable (arguably Rousseau could not have know this when he wrote, because he was a bullshit-artist more interested in taming strange than developing a genuinely internally-consistent political ethos).
I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!
You're TINA TURNER!!!! (lol)
Errrrr..... the plan is NOT to make the US go bankrupt while letting its citizens flee abroad, no no no!
It'd be like like emptying a boil while letting the pus spread everywhere... YOU HAVE TO STAY AY HOME!
"
Ubi pus, ibi USA"
A friend asked an elderly Jewish man why he did not flee the Nazis earlier. He said first they did not let them take their money and possessions and as some fled despite the restrictions, the Nazis then very quickly denied them the right to leave.
No matter where you go, there you are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWoV4r67h0
I used that same quote on the Ho that is spending all of my cousins money travelling around the world. She did'nt get it, of course.
Cool old classic song.
"property transfers into irrevocable trusts"
Isn't paying for these transfers prohibitively big? My impression is that it's like selling your property to someone else, and paying taxes on the gains?
Have a friend who has a second passport from Ireland.
He's been there several times and plans to retire there (mid to late 50's with wife). Most likely renounce once wife gets Irish Citizenship. That takes three years.
Good points:
1. Cheap outside Dublin. Very cheap in the small villages.
2. They speak English (sort of).
3. He looks like them.
4. Irish are very friendly and welcoming of Americans.
5. They are not an empire, don't have much military and don't feel the need to tell the rest of the world how to live.
6. No GMO food.
7. Irish are natural rebels (a good thing).
Bad points:
1. It rains allot. Then some more.
2. Except for the southeast, it's cloudy and cool.
3. Not much opportunity for the young (although my friend is older).
4. Still in the Anglo sphere of influence.
Sounds great to escape the tyranny of the USA. I live in FL and am in my shorts with all the windows open. Love Ireland especially occupied Northern Ireland, f'ing Brits. Stay there and enjoy your beans on toast or whatever the hell your cuisine is, and the weather, mate....
Ever wonder why the front cover of an American Passport says United States of America, while the inside talks about being a citizen/national of the United States?
I unvolunteered as a "US citizen" once I understood the four Organic Laws of The Unitied States of America as found in Volume 1 of the United States Code. Funny thing, even the State Department agreed with me and gave me a new passport. FYI, it looks the same but the paperwork behind it tells the story.
Most people, virtually all lawyers included, have no idea how the US is structured, organized and run or for who's benefit. Everyone focuses on the United States Constitution of September 17, 1787, not realizing that it is strictly limited by the three preceeding Organic Laws.
http://uscode.house.gov/browse/frontmatter/organiclaws&edition=prelim
Read the four Organic Laws, in order and very carefully, and recall that the last one was written in secret almost entirely by a bunch of lawyers feeling besieged by debt and events like Shay's Rebellion. Note that all four are still in force, by necessity. Once you do that, you may realize that it is all "just business" dressed up all fancy to fool us rubes. Then, with a little more study, you will be able to find your way to America. It still exists.
Could you elaborate? I'd rather not read the entire law, maybe you could fill me in as to what your conclusion is given what you know about the organic laws?
written and liked by a bunch of bitter old fucks with no family, no kids, no friends, and no pussy.
As if...
Many of us live in countries other than the US, where we have PLENTY of family, friends, kids, and pussy that wouldn't even give you (amurrikins) the time of day read from your gold Rolex.
Under the 14th amendment one is both a Citizen of the United States as well as a Citizen of the State in which one resides. That's a form of duel citizenship, holding allegience to both a singularity and a collective. Why would ~renouncing alliegience to the collective necessarily impart renouncing also to the singular State?
Depending on the state, then the state court system, and finally, the judge, a person who has renounced US citizenship can sometimes retain (or get back) the right to live in the state of their citizenship.
This is nice and all but the average rube is not going to renounce citizenship or have the means to relocate anyways. Limited audience this article is geared towards. Maybe you should be working on setting up an underground railroad to get Patriots and fellow Libertarians out of this shithole when things go south like the Nazi's did after WWII.
Yes but you can't selll subscriptons that way. Better for the rubes, at least the smart ones who can read and understand logic, to read the big law book:
http://uscode.house.gov/browse/frontmatter/organiclaws&edition=prelim
No railroad needed.
Understood on the subscription part. I know a little bit about organic law but still am missing your point, granted I need to read into it some more. If you don't mind I'd like to pick your brain a little bit on the subject. One interesting argument I've seen using organic law is the issue of seperation of church and state via Article III of the Northwest Ordinance.
Article III of the Northwest Ordinance requires:
Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.
Even though it pre-dates the Constitution that idea that Christian morality and religion was to be taught in public schools was still struck down in Engel v. Vitale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale
Even Justice Douglas made note of the Nortwest Ordinance in the ruling but the ruling basically said the ends don't justify the means when it came to public schools even though the Northwest Ordinance spells it out otherwise in relation to public schools being the 'means' and 'religion and morality' being the 'ends'. He also used the idea that the Establishing Clause takes precedence since the Constitution is the top tier in order of organic laws established by date.
I guess the question is which document holds precedence when they are not in agreement. The fallacy of the above ruling was Holy Trinity v. US in 1892 specifically stated otherwise in relation to organic law.
It stated:
There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning. They affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons. They are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.
Pick away but note that it is absolutely necessary for you to read carefully Organic Law and study with a very critical mind. Do not believe anything I say but rather read, think and verify historical facts. The facts are your guide.
What is the nature of the land that the Northwest Ordinance applies to? That is the key to the show. There were a bunch of smart lawyers working in the United States in Congress assembled at that time under a great deal of pressure.
Ever read the Treaty of Paris? Recall the King was kick out by force of arms but there was business to be done and he was pretty damn broke - wars and all. What was done to secure peace, in equity?
If the third Organic Law, the Northwest Ordinance, set up a "temporary government", what might the Fourth Organic Law do?
These cases you mention are "opinions", no? They apply some place, maybe? What is the nature of the place they can apply?
Thanks for the reply and yes absolutely agree on read, think and verify part. I have some reading to do. I'll reply further afterwards once I do or figure out how to message you privately on this thing to continue conversation if you don't mind. You got my curiousity piqued.
You are welcome.
Spend some time here:
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/content.php?flash=true&page=milestone
Order Volume 1 of the United States Code from the GPO:
http://bookstore.gpo.gov/
The House Law Revision Counsel knows the law, Natural, Organic and Statutory as near as I can tell.
Since many people wanting to exit US citizenship and tax consequences are bad people running from actual responsibilities, it raises the question of what the ultimate intent is, I am sure there are some really good reasons to go ex-pat like bad wives, unjust lawsuits, as well as a lack of $$ income for the taxes, etc. paid.
Generally the US military and the system in general bends over backwards to make the world safe for the corporate raiders, people like Kissinger, Bremer, and other war criminal "free traders". I just hope that the world will start pushing back against these a$$holes that ruin life for most of us.
A lot of us are already abroad and have been for decades and are getting tired of being fucked over by the IRS, when Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, Swiss, and Japanese, don't have to deal with tax bullshit back home when they live expat. It is borderline extortion now, and the arrogance of the US government is really nauseating.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021
Yeh it's like Doug Casey touting Argentina as the place to get away from the oppression of the USA. Two (!) Perons; Military junta "Disappears" 30,000++ people in the 1970's, Kirschner nationalizing everything she can lay her hands on, economy crashes twice as often as ours, Terrorists from Iran bombing the AMIA center in 1990's, killing some Jews and hundreds of Catholic Argentines, carlos menem the prez consorting with them. Good grief!
Go to f'ing St. Kitts or wherever shithole you wanna go to, and don't let the door hit you on the way out, Good riddance. You ain't mark Rihh or Jim Rogers....I'll take the People's Republik of Asheville any day.
lengthy comments, who reads them?
i love lamp
so i guess just moving your capital somewhere..keeping your head down, ignoring all officialdom in the states or the new country is out then?
Not necessarily. If you can obtain legal permanent residence in a country and take no further steps, you have substantial expatriation and owe Uncle Sam only a wave of the third finger. But to do this successfully it is necessary to reduce your income below a taxable level. Yes, the price of freedom is poverty!
I won't begrudge anyone who feels it best for themselves and their posterity to leave the United States and do away with their American citizenship. It's a choice to be made individually after all the relevant factors have been dispassionately weighed. For me and mine, I'm simply too stubborn to "get out." I am an American, and I don't want to be anything else. Besides, if tyranny can prevail here, it can and will prevail everywhere else. I believe that this country really is the last stand of freedom on Earth.
So I will remain in the country of my birth and fight tooth and nail for the constitutional republic, and the God-given liberties that are my birthright as a free human being.
To those of you emigrating away from the struggle of freedom vs. tyranny here in America, I ask only this: If, against all odds we champions of freedom and self-determination/self-government prevail in the coming battle, please remain in the overseas territories that you have claimed as your new home. And may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
6 pages and counting of comments?....Very long Page 1 has little to do with the article and I will give up on the rest.
Article did not say much as to the 'WHY he left USA' except if govt making it more difficult, it must be good to do?
We can only guess that he was doing it for tax reasons but then wonder what taxes he is paying in his new official residence...which he doesn't say.