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Overstock's First Day Of Bitcoin: $130,000 Sales, 840 Transactions, CEO "Stunned"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Upon the conclusion of the Senate hearing on Bitcoin this past November, I tweeted that I thought we had entered Phase 2 of the Bitcoin story. A month later, following news that Andreessen Horowitz had led an venture capital investment of $25 million in Coinbase, I wrote:

As I tweeted at the time, I think Bitcoin began phase two of its growth and adoption cycle upon the conclusion of the Senate hearings last month (I suggest reading: My Thoughts on the Bitcoin Hearing).

 

I think phase two will be primarily characterized by two things. More mainstream adoption and ease of use, as well as increasingly large investments by venture capitalists. In the past 24 hours, we have seen evidence of both.

Phase 2 so far is going even more positively than I had expected. Overstock.com accelerated its plans to accept BTC by many months, and the early rollout has been a massive success. The company’s CEO just tweeted:

 

 

This is absolutely huge news and any retail CEO worth their salt will immediately begin to look into Bitcoin adoption.

I hope financial publications that missed the biggest financial story of 2013 continue to mock it with covers of unicorns and waterfalls. It’s the most bullish thing I can imagine.

Furthermore, the purchased items are varied...

The apparent ease of acceptance and use has spurred demand for Bitcoin itself which has pushed back above $1000...

 

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Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:00 | 4323322 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Crtitical mass, bitchez.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:02 | 4323328 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Rumors floating around that NewEgg is next.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:15 | 4323367 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

The question is how lasting will this be?  Early buyers of bitcoins are probably hoping to cash them in without having to pay a capital gains tax.  That can only go on for so long.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:22 | 4323376 One And Only
One And Only's picture

As more and more merchants adopt it...why convert to fiat at all?

You can already buy:

homes

cars

planes

(anything on overstock)

websites on wordpress

groceries

gold

an island (yes an island) just check out this site if you want your mind blown http://www.bitpremier.com/

and literally tens of thousands of other things

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:23 | 4323388 john39
john39's picture

ever so methodically, the hidden hand draws the masses to supernational digital fiat currency...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:26 | 4323396 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

And that hidden hand will tax it, too.  It will tax paychecks if they are ever made in bitcoin, and it will tax capital gains where the basis will be reported by those that are allowed to exchange fiat for bitcoin.  A virtual currency is indeed the game, and control of it is the aim.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:36 | 4323419 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

maybe i'm thinking like a luddite...but i see currency and commercial collapse with this bitcoin concept

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:31 | 4323567 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Who knows the rate that bitcoins are increasing and the increase of overall supply?  Do they keep track of circulation?  Can someone counterfeit bitcoins?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:16 | 4323678 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin follows a Controlled Supply that is coded into each version of the Bitcoin client. The public ledger uses a lot of resources and can leak privacy information... The whole purpose of it is to protect ourselves from counterfeits.  

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:50 | 4323751 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Watch in near real time:

blockchain.info

Prices of BTC, gold, silver, platinum and palladium:

https://ounce.me/

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:35 | 4323858 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Slowly, people will catch on that government fiat is no longer in their best interest to own.  I still say that at $1,000 BTC you will be considered a very, very early adopter.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 13:40 | 4324815 TruthHammer
TruthHammer's picture

very quickly, any time people are given a legit way to exit BTC for a profit, people will happily get out.  This is good news, the more average people are able to reap their profits and exit the trap, the better.

 

hopefully only shills and 20%ers will be left as final bag holders.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:02 | 4323917 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I just signed up at Overstock.com and placed an order for a new CRKT M16 folding knife (I have lots of fixed blades, not many folders).  Apparently, Bitcoin is not a payment option for Canadians at this time but I still wanted to show my support for a company that is going to bat for us.  This is a beautiful moment in history when people are standing up and demanding control of their own lives and their own money.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:06 | 4323925 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Aye, I'm in the same boat.  Their payment processor that handles international customers IS working on implementing bitcoin, roll out maybe in 2 months.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:18 | 4323946 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I will be contacting eBay and letting them know that Overstock.com will be getting my business until they too accept Bitcoin.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:24 | 4323953 akak
akak's picture

I will be contacting Overstock.com and letting them know that I will not be doing any business with them because they are now accepting Bitcoin.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:49 | 4324000 fonestar
fonestar's picture

....because you are another fake f*cking libertarian who is trying to force people into dollars.  The dollar was an abusive relationship and it is coming to and end.  Too bad for you loser.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:37 | 4324069 akak
akak's picture

Oh yes, I just LOVE my fiat dollars!  Every post I have ever made here on ZH supports that sentiment and hypothesis.  Akak the statist!

 

(/sarc)

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:41 | 4324076 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So how many businesses have you contacted about accepting your silver coins?  Oh right, none.

Besides six and seven digit BTC, here's another prediction for you guys...  Twenty years from now it's the crypto-anarchists, the Julian Assanges, the Aaron Swartzes who are remembered as the real heroes of this generation.  Not the do-nothing, lame "stackers" on Zerohedge.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:54 | 4324090 akak
akak's picture

Phoneystar, you're funny when you're bitcoinpumping.

Bitcoin is just Tulipmania for geeks.

And MY prediction is that twenty years from now, bitcoins will be just a footnote in the history of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:05 | 4324103 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Those that grew up with their eye on the screen,

twerking the button,

don't realize that virtual is fake.

 

Stack On

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:18 | 4324124 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So the operating system on the computer you are typing on is "fake"?

Fucking morons.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:33 | 4324142 wintermute
wintermute's picture

They really must think their own comments on ZH are fake, the last email they sent was fake, the last iTunes track they bought was fake, the balance in their internet current account is fake. Omigod the whole world is going FAKE!

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:54 | 4324156 Haole
Haole's picture

It's utterly astounding at this stage of the game isn't it..?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:13 | 4324182 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

It surely is.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 13:44 | 4324828 TruthHammer
TruthHammer's picture

straw man on brave bafoons, cause really, operating systems and e-mails, which are actually abstract contructions, are good examples of why BTC is as real as true anti-fiat currencies....

 

Bitcoin is 50% commodity (virtual at that), 50% penny stock, and 50% payment system, 100% Super Cereal though :D

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:13 | 4324180 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"the last email they sent was fake..."

It is fake. just ask the NSA.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:47 | 4324209 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Omigod the whole world is going FAKE!"

Don't worry, according to these geniuses we will be going back to steam power, snail mail, Wells Fargo wagon payments and six guns any day now!  You just wait for it and us Bitcoiners are gonna be sorry we ever doubted them!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:05 | 4324223 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I know I have the skills to live and raise my family if those type of days come to pass.

I'm suggesting that watching a screen and twerking buttons gives no skills at all.

Or wisdom for that matter.

 

Stack On

Bitchez

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:23 | 4324244 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah, I'm sure the "skills" involved in wiping your kid's ass is easily comparable to developing a global crypto-currency.

Are you raising your kids to be ignoramuses as well?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:43 | 4324253 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Yes I am, they are not 'gamers'. They know what real work is.

They also have the wisdom to know that there are zero quick rich schemes that work.

Your worship of the virtual is astonishing.

 

Stack On fonestar.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 02:10 | 4324276 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am not a "gamer" but Bitcoiners are playing the new great game.  I doubt someone like you could ever understand the meaning of "real work".  Working in software, computing and project management requires a lot more education and skill than someone changing oil or tires or pouring concrete.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 02:58 | 4324300 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I said my children weren't 'gamers', but now I know fonestar. And I have poured the concrete, changed the oil, and trained my teenage daughter how to change the tire. She knows how to do it fonestar, do you?

And since I've been managing a couple of different projects, concurrently, over the last couple of decades, that include the use of software and computing, and labour, and procurement of services, and operating rotating equipment, on the ranch and in the field I would suggest that I know the meaning of 'real work'.

Need a real job fonestar? I've got the power to give you a career. Go west fonestar, just like ian tyson sang.

 

Four Strong Winds...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:47 | 4324208 tmosley
tmosley's picture

akak, you posess an irrational hatred of bitcoin.  One would think you were molested as a child by Satoshi or some such nonesense.

Seriously, what the living fuck is wrong with you?  Where are the letter writing campains against retailers taking central bank issued confetti?  You think that isn't just a little bit hypocritical?  You think you aren't a tool of the oppressor?

Honestly, this post actually makes me wish deadly harm on you.  Stop that shit.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:51 | 4324212 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It's not "irrational" if you're playing for the enemy.  

This place is probably just as infected as GLP or ATS.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:56 | 4324263 akak
akak's picture

Lighten up, tmosley; not every utterance, here or elsewhere, need be taken at face value (even when that value is expressed in bitcoins).

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 10:27 | 4324516 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So what, you're just trolling now?  Do I need to label you under the "troll" heading and ignore everything you say in the future?

That would be a shame.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 11:30 | 4324600 Chump
Chump's picture

C'mon dude.  You 'wish deadly harm' on someone for expressing a tongue-in-cheek opinion?  And he's the troll?

I enjoy both your and akak's posts, but you need to get a grip and relax a little.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:22 | 4325042 akak
akak's picture

I'll be happy to have everyone on ZH consider me a troll when I make even a quarter as many anti-bitcoin posts as Fonestar makes pro-bitcoin-pumping posts.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:08 | 4325378 walküre
walküre's picture

Why is the location or nationality of the purchaser from overstock.com and pays in BTC an issue? BTC transactions are tracked and recorded and made available to authorities upon request. No other reason why they'd refuse to take Canadian BTC for your purchase and ship you the package unless they're waiting for the ink to dry between Overstock and Canadian IRS. Something like that. By the way you can buy in the US online and use a third party shipping address, then drive across your border and pick it up in the closest US bordertown.

But Overstock.com is scrutinizing Canadian BTC purchases (for now). Weird. Anyway, why is BTC any different than Canada's or US Fiat? Once the price settles somewhere around $1000 it's just like any other fiat but with less banking issues.

TPTB hate cash and cash transactions. That's the real story. Cash is not printed and banks are stingy handing out actual cash because it leaves their system and the lose the opportunity to create leverage.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:38 | 4325773 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Because they use a different Payment Processor for international shipments.  For in-country purchases they use their own in-house system but figuring out shipping, foreign exchange rates, and language support for international customers they use a different system.  Probably cheaper to work with a system that specializes in these situations rather than roll their own software.  This other system is working to implement Bitcoin also, just not available yet.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:08 | 4323791 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Everyone.  Yes.  No.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:31 | 4323852 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Holy crap the zealous believers are now issuing down arrows for asking questions.  If that's not a sign that we should just up and convert all holdings to Btc, then wtf is? 

Sounds rather statist.  Perhaps they went to the Nancy Pelosi School of Economics and demand that we need to buy before we get to see what's in it.

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:36 | 4323861 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Right, if you don't like something just accuse if of being "statist" or "socialist".  Anyone with a brain knows that Bitcoin is the polar opposite of statism.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:24 | 4323955 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Bitcoin?! LOL!

Bankers finally found a way to rob people via "market way" and to stay away. I mean, is good way for banksters, to rob people and do not stay after guilty.
Only the market, only the market, nothing personal. LOL

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:42 | 4323420 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

The NSA wrote Bitcoin mining hashing algorithms (SHA256) and wrote half the private key generation. For the other half of the private key gen bitcoin uses RIPEMD160 which is hackable for NSA exploit.

http://blog.skullsecurity.org/2012/everything-you-need-to-know-about-has...

and Bitcoin uses elliptic curves

"Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can." (Bitcoin uses the latter)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-su...

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:47 | 4323441 One And Only
One And Only's picture

secp256k1 is not compromised; secp256r1 is.

And bitcoin is double hashed.

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7781/satoshis-genius-unexpected-ways-in-which...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:34 | 4323473 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

"nearly impossible to invert"

Before Snowden secp256r1 was thought secure by many. 

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:41 | 4323594 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

bitcoin has one advantage at the time being, unbeatable, added value to serpentine array… it's a swarm crowded and metastatic… kill it, bam, another one better appears… in fact there's so many honestly backed currencies these days by math, o glory days…

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:22 | 4324127 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

In other words, the state is now engaged in a global game of Whack-A-Mole, with a predictable result:

http://i1-win.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Whack-A-Mole_1.png

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:26 | 4324134 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Perfect analogy that points to the inherit beauty and power of p2p networking and communications.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:41 | 4324204 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Anyone using Mega's browser encryption?  Kim.com makes good points here why companies will get away from using Silicon Valley companies liek Google, Apple, Microshaft, et al.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1401/S00017/vice-news-kim-dotcom-the-ma...

12 minutes in he talks about Mega's browser based p2p encryption.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:57 | 4324217 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Thanks for the link Freddie I will check it out.  Enjoy listening to all of Kim's interviews and thoughts, he is a real force against the copyright-globalist cartel.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:59 | 4323626 digi
digi's picture

Yea excluding the guys who made bitcoin. It never used that algorithm. Imagine that, individuals being smarter than govt hacks.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:53 | 4324093 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Who did make bitcoin?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:27 | 4324135 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It does not matter who made Bitcoin.  

We are interested in technical facts, not personalities.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:19 | 4324189 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Why doesn't it matter who made bitcoin?
If it WAS a working group under DARPA/NSA/Jekyll Island using the pseudonym "Satoshi" to seed something they've had Saurons eyeball on from day 1 - does it still not matter or does it matter a whole lot?

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:33 | 4324199 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's the stupidest assertion ever.  These orgs have spent the past century, countless lives lost and wars waged to establish global dollar hegemony.  To think they would willingly destroy that for the off-chance they could control a dollar collapse scenario is downright retarded.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:49 | 4324210 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

It only may seem retarded because you're not part of their inner-circle. You haven't actuated the next 100 years of play from the perspective of their high-chairs on top of Mount Doom to be able to see why this is a perfect step to bleed a new generation into a new fiscal control grid where technology finally gives them the Saurons Eyeball they've talked about for decades.

I would suggest it's downright retarded to assume they have no plan since everything that has led to this point was written out and run pretty close to those writings upon reflection.
"You didn't build that" wasn't so much a lie as much as he was telling you it's all been designed from the start so just bend over and take it so it doesn't hurt as much.

Before any major transition into a 'new order', they rob and steal as much as they can before the tanks start rolling. Well, they are certainly at the thieving stage and it looks like the tanks aren't far away. It's safe to assume there's a playbook for the post-war stage too. It would only be retarded to think they have no plan and simply continue to fund DARPA, NSA and all the other black-projects just to make life easier for you 30 years after the fact with iPocket toys.

So who created bitcoin?
It's a simple question. Hopefully it's not the same people that have been flying the black triangles for the last 30 years and instead is just some lonely genius trying to make the world a better place - but it would be great to know for sure wouldn't it?

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:03 | 4324220 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There is no reason to believe that Bitcoin is a globalist conspiracy.  Hackers have been talking p2p money for twenty years now, it only sounds esoteric to the likes of you because it's new to you and not us.  And as for them leading the narrative and society by the nose, yes it has worked out for them so far.  But they were banking on a command-and-control style media and not what the internet has become today.... p2p, social media, bloggers, etc.  It was a simpler world they sought to take over, one with much fewer inputs and more predicatble outputs.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 02:17 | 4324284 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

So since hackers have been talking about p2p money, therefor the unknown origins of this particular design is not worthy of any further understanding?
Does that really make sense?

We can read about Saurons desired technological grid society- under complete surveillance and control- using energy as the basis of a trackable I.D. based token system, decades before anyone uttered the words p2p currency. It's safe to assume they didn't expect paper notes and metals to be the money for ever, in fact they have desired for the longest time to replace that system just as we are starting to witness. First they needed the technology to catchup to their vision and they used the last century to throw millions into the furnace to build the machine to do it. They designed and funded every other component of the technology that has brought us to this point, so are we really to believe that it's gotten ahead of them in the last couple years because of bloggers and social media talking behind their backs? Didn't the NSA revelations show that they have no backs to hide behind because Saurons eyeball sees everything?

Maybe it's true they've been blindsided, let's all hope but lets remove the faith and know for sure.

If p2p currency has been discussed for 20 years, why does it's history currently have a missing-link known only as "Satoshi"?

Why can't that be evidence of Sauron taking over the discussion or at least utilizing the p2p discussion? Generational conditioning is a key component of their methodology which has evolved from the brute force tactics of the past. The Xbox/iPhone generation are ripe for this exact conditioning before the iChip is unveiled. If they tried to just drop this on people today they'd have a fight on their hands. If they wait 10 years people will line up for it.

The question isn't "who has discussed something like bitcoin" because we know who those people are in both Mordor and the various hacker blogs.

The question is: Who created bitcoin?

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:10 | 4324227 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

No it's not fone. I accept bitcoin, I love it, have fun with,even speculate a bit (pun!) -a really little bit- but the jury is still out on who the developer is and I believe that DOES matter. Don't knock those that feel the same way. We're all on the same team, just different approaches.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:20 | 4324239 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There's a good chance that Satoshi would be ex-intel or military as many high level cryptographers are snapped up by these orgs.  It doesn't bother me in the least bit.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 03:20 | 4324312 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Would it bother you if he's not "ex"?

We've gone from "There's no chance" to "It doesn't matter" to "He might be ex-spook"....

What if he's not an ex-intel or ex-military but actually intel or military?

What if 'He' is actually a 'Them'?
Didn't his early conversations on the forums often take a while to come back with answers to people's questions - almost like 'They' had to discuss the proper response before 'Satoshi' replied on the forum?
Then he just vanished once the ball got rolling on it's own?

It's true it doesn't matter from the point of view of bitcoin just being another buy low / sell high trade that's good for taking while it's in hype mode, there's nothing new under the sun for pump & dumps, penny stocks and hype crazes - but it's the most important question from the point of view of is this something we should all adopt with open arms for more and more everyday usage before it's just normalized in the MSM and the next generation ask 'what's a bank note?'.

The consequences are massive depending on which way the question is answered.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:01 | 4324386 digi
digi's picture

I think the problem you are coming up against here is a misunderstanding of the way open source software works. Would you rather use a black box provided by a known individual on a trust system or a totally transparent one provided by an anonymous programmer where all of the inner workings are accessible and easily modified by the end user? You also seem to be strangely worried that the NSA has some type of monopoly on cryptographic intelligence. That's insane. Sure they prolly have a swell team and all but I would be surprised if they had a world majority, and even if they did there is always the guy who isn't in the cabal who's just as sharp as the rest of them. All he has to do is raise his hand and point out the flaw in the open source code that is available to everyone. For you to try and support the claim that the NSA is smarter than the rest of the worlds cryptographers combined you would probably just have to go ahead and put them on the level of gods and in that case you should just submit to them and bow down now right?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:48 | 4323749 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Not really, the seed value was always suspect.  Few people trusted "random" before, fewer now.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:50 | 4324074 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

"Few people trusted "random" before"

Few distrusted compared to how many trusted.  Only after Snowden did the backdoor get widespread attention even though its wide use gave "random" opportunity to be more widely vetted. Both are govt designed.

Then there's the matter of disincentive to publish the discovery of a backdoor for esteem value when, unlike "random," it is a backdoor to the lottery.

The govt has been exploring cryptocurrencies since 1996.  When was Secp256k1 designed? Perhaps it was saved for this purpose, a harder nut to crack to keep suspicion down.  So much at stake when the dollar is doomed and the govt wants a cashless society.

 

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:23 | 4324130 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Not saying it's not possible, just improbable.  It doesn't mean that every encryption scheme in existence is bad.  The Snowden impact was huge and still ongoing.  It made many conspiracy theories fact thereby promoting wild ideas into conspiracy theories.

Take a look at the formula difference between the two algorithms and you'll see what I mean about the strange random number versus the parameters used by k1.  I'm not 100% convinced that someone doesn't have a backdoor or that one won't be found in the future.  But I find it to be incredibly improbable.  I'm quite happy dealing with this particular shade of grey.

This article a great read.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:25 | 4324230 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Saw it. Not real impressed. I take it there hasn't been much analysis compared to "random."  Another question is how many cryptographers are out there who don't work for the NSA but are of the caliber that do?  We can't even compare the secret resources of the NSA.

When every other part of bitcoin cryptography is designed by the NSA or has already been hacked, that's sloppy, and then everything then hinges on k1 which is still an elliptic curve and govt designed.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 05:05 | 4324360 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Simple test:  send the NSA a bitcoin amount that's encrypted with the same algorithm.  If they're able to debit your bitcoin address, then they can decrypt bitcoins as well.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:35 | 4323581 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

@fonestar has a boner. A foner.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:37 | 4323865 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I always have a foner when Bitcoin is mentioned.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:41 | 4323877 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Popped a foner? Lulz!

It must be virtually turgid.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:07 | 4324107 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Just remember that guy thinks Satoshi is a real person.  Trusting chap isn't he?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:51 | 4323753 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@ One World Echo-chamber

Like I've said before - You can clear your cut-n-paste buffer. But until you do - here's the TRUTH:

Bitcoin uses a different elliptic-curve implementation - namely secp256k1. This is not the curve that was supposedly compromised by NSA, which is called sec256r1.

Bitcoin uses TWO operations using SHA256, which makes it irreversible. Of course, in your haste to cut-and-paste the same goddamned thing in every Bitcoin thread, you tend to leave that out.

So shut your fucking gob and get on to the other issues, you moron.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:38 | 4323870 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Forget about him.  If all the dunces jumped on Bitcoin right away it would be priced at infinity right now.  Be glad for the useful idiots and their FUD.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:27 | 4323706 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You don't know what a fiat currency is, so you are totally unqualified to speak on monetary issues.

So shut the fuck up until you can answer this question: "What backs gold?"

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:52 | 4323758 Selah
Selah's picture

Gold backs Gold, bitch.

 

Gold is money by definition.

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:16 | 4323795 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

im not dead feel fine

 

theoretically speaking gold lacks one property to bitcoin as honest money, and that is sterility... a property of one which makes it only usable for being money... gold has more appliances as jewelry, in the industry, in the vaults fiat backing etc…so bitcoin is the ultimate sterile money and is partialy backed by gold as well...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:41 | 4323878 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gold is money because people make it money.  Bitcoin can be money too because it is intangible and born of Satoshi conciousness.

This may sound strange to physical, pre-internet people but there is actually very little difference between 5 and 5,000 years.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:08 | 4323931 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

bitcoin is already money to many

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:30 | 4323961 silvermail
silvermail's picture

And Vodka is already money to many

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:27 | 4324136 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"bitcoin is already money to many"

"And vodka is already money to many"

I'll drink to both, savoring the precipitous decline of government fiat and of government itself.


Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:33 | 4323854 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Gold is backed by the same thing that bitcoin is backed by--its usefullness as a trade token.

Sorry, but you failed the test, and as a result, get no say in monetary matters.  Don't feel bad, pretty much all the bitcoin bashers who are also goldbugs are in the same boat.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that bitcoin complements gold perfectly, and makes freegold inevitable, much to the chagrin of the FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOAers who really Really REALLY wanted their transactional currency to be a self destructing government imposed construct.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:19 | 4325037 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Gold, in addition to faith, based on the 5,000 years of cultural and religious traditions, including the Bible and the U.S. Constitution.
Bitokin relies only on 5 minutes blah blah blah about anything.
Feel the difference.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:54 | 4323759 runningman18
runningman18's picture

Rarity, physicality, malleability, 5000 years of history of usage, etc.  What backs bitcoin besides egomania, techno-elitism, and cultism?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:22 | 4323826 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

hardware industry

math

100 exaflops

dedicated 10k miners

electricity

10 billion market cap

_______

time - as main component

 

more ingredients than gold is backed by, more complex criterias, sofisticated yet fair...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:58 | 4324096 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

So a complex house of cards VS a shovel & pan

You want as few ingredients as possible. The longer the chain, the more fragile the links.

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:07 | 4324389 digi
digi's picture

In bitcoin the longer the chain the more secure the transaction, lol.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:23 | 4323827 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

"What backs bitcoin besides egomania, techno-elitism, and cultism?"

Mathematics.  Additionally bitcoin vaults cannot be confiscated nearly as easily as gold vaults, a significant advantage of btc over gold.  Does that mean btc cannot be stolen?  No.  In fact nothing that has value is theft proof.  But having to rely on a vault (and the government to no disturb that vault) is a implicit concern of anything bigger than some guy with a handful of gold coins.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:39 | 4323869 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Rarity--bitcoin is rarer than gold.

Physicality--so a pebble is worth more than a multimillion dollar peice of software?

Malleability--by no measure is that a quality of money (you fucking idiot)

5000 years of usage--yes, the primary value that gold has that bitcoin doesn't.

What backs bitcoin?  The same thing that backs gold.  It's usefullness as a token for trade.  Bitcoin has different properties than gold, properties that allow it to move across borders in an instant.  Gold has to be shoved up your ass to evade currency controls.  Bitcoin simply exists everywhere there is a computer.

Gold and bitcoin are not enemies.  They are ALLIES against central banks.  Foolishly attacking other alternative currencies is just that--foolish.  There is a reason Ron Paul was not for a gold standard but rather for competing currencies.  Bitcoin shows the breadth of his uncanny forethought.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:03 | 4324024 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Isn't it strange how people whose heads are filled with concrete and only trust things they can touch have a hard time with abstract concepts?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 23:07 | 4324106 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Why do you on one hand think the entire world will use bitcoins making it's value skyrocket, then on the other hand say how everyone is too dense to understand how to use it?

If bitcoin is too advanced for Shaqwanda to understand and use at Wall-Mart then it's destiny is already written.

Eventually the early adopters will run out of steam passing their coins back and forth to create the illusion of a market and the hot potato will fall to the ground.

You better pray it becomes so easy to use all the concrete heads can understand it because Confucius Say: All circle-jerks end in a flaccid mess.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:14 | 4324391 digi
digi's picture

Shaqwanda couldn't use the internet in 1990 either but she is on facebook today on her smartphone at the said walmart isn't she?

Here, let's play some mad libs with your comment

"Eventually the early internet adopters will run out of steam passing their emails back and forth with each other to create the illusion of an information network and the whole thing will fall to the ground."

Lot's of people were saying that back in the day, many of them won't admit to it now but the quotes are on the books. I'm not staying up at night worried about whether or not bitcoins ease of use will increase because like with all technologies, it will.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:19 | 4323818 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Excellent question.  One can anticipate that mining asteroids will flood the market with too much gold in 100 years, undermining its perception as money par excellence.  

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/21/us-space-mining-asteroids-idUS...

Perhaps a more limited element would become the item that stays in vaults at that point.  Gold is money because it has always been very limited, among other reasons.  If gold was as plentiful as, say, silver is today that could very well change.  Would money end up being a nuclear fuel, like Helium 3?  Iridium or another very rare element?  Raw electrical energy?  It would depend on what people *believe* is the best money.

 

 

 

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:34 | 4323967 silvermail
silvermail's picture

12 major myths about Bitcoin :

1. The creator or creators of Bitcoin (which nobody knows anything) certainly crystal honest, absolutely unselfish and very decent people. These people never think about anything else, except for the happiness of all the other people around the world.
2. Crystal honest people who created Bitcoin, have no relation to the bankers and the power, that serves the interests of the bankers. Conversely, people who created Bitcoin, of course, are opposed to bankers, fiat money and selling power. How could it be otherwise?
3. Bitcoin is decentralized system! It is not necessary to prove this you just have to believe like in God.
4. Bitcoin system is absolutely safe! It is not necessary to prove this you just have to believe like in God.
5. Bitcoin system has no back doors! It is not necessary to prove this you just have to believe like in God.
6. System Visa, Master card and PayPal - it's business for the creators of these systems. Therefore, they take money for their services in the form of commission from the amount of each transaction. But Bitcoin system - it's just a hobby for its creators . Therefore, they do not take money for their services. They are unselfish, they good, white and fluffy.
7. Bankers, governments and intelligence agencies do not know who is the creator of Bitcoin. Therefore, they can not influence them.
8. People who created Bitcoin, do not need the money and they do not fear death. Therefore, they can not be bought or intimidated in order to provide access to system management Bitcoin.
9. Bitcoin PR company, which runs on all countries of the world and is worth billions of dollars, is only a free coincidence.
10. Plans of Bankers and government to rob the people savings, through the beautiful "market mechanism," are just paranoid fiction only.
11. Everyone who owns a Bitcoin becomes a fighter against fiat money system, which is also like Bitcoin , made ??out of nothing. Therefore, each owner Bitcoin has the right to be proud and consider myself a very clever.
12. Among those people who do not believe in Bitcoin and laugh at this Bitcoin flock, none of them are smart people. All of them are only enemies and fools. But among those people who holy believers in Bitcoin, none fool's, it is only very smart people.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:57 | 4323767 Banjo
Banjo's picture

@john39 +1000

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:27 | 4323399 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

$130 grand is fine for a local Mom and Pop, but it's pocket change for Overstock, or anyone working on a regional or national scale.  Early days, ladies and gentleman.  More to the point, where do they lay this stuff off.  Their vendors won't take it, so how do they cash out.  Local currencies usually fail in exactly this way.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:35 | 4323417 One And Only
One And Only's picture

huh?

$130,000 annualized is $47 million. Yea, that sure would be fine for a local mom and pop.

...and that's just the U.S,  Overstock isn't accepting bitcoin for international orders yet.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:33 | 4323574 pipes
pipes's picture

Although...I don't think any of us coiners realistically think the 130k will be maintained 365...this was the holeshot.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:37 | 4323425 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

They cash out right away. They are using Coinbase as an exchange. How many times must we go over this?!

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:11 | 4323661 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

so much chingy waiting in line to have a piece of btc... imagine that, coinbase sold $130k worth od digies that day and the price still went up... silly... i had to buy more gold with profit to please myself...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:14 | 4323674 dasein211
dasein211's picture

No shit people are fucking retards! Just goes to show how many people DON'T understand bitcoin!

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:43 | 4323991 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Once upon a time people would ask their friends: "You have already bought a ticket on the Titanic?"
Today, they ask: "You have already bought a Bitcoin?".

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:26 | 4323835 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Most stackers are a dumb as bricks, sadly.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:05 | 4324028 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Not "right away" there could be as much as a 30 minute delay therefore price conversion risk.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 03:04 | 4323665 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Interview about Bitcoin opening day with Overstock CEO on CNN

http://youtu.be/a0-S0ErCohA

Wherin he extolls the virtues of Austrian Economics, says Amazon.com will eventually follow in his footsteps, and that Governments will come to hate Bitcoin but there isn't much they can do.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 22:19 | 4324045 Spigot
Spigot's picture

If $130k was taperd to zero over a year they would transact $24,000,000 using BTC. Not bad for unicorn shit.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:19 | 4323377 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

ABG baby!

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:33 | 4323413 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

I think Coinbase as payment processor for Overstock is quite compatible to US financial laws. If somebody wants to evade taxes, this is a bad idea.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 13:06 | 4324747 presk_eel_pundit
presk_eel_pundit's picture

Got to spend them while they're still worth something.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 17:03 | 4323331 css1971
css1971's picture

Just another bubble entering the public consciousness stage.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:29 | 4323559 pipes
pipes's picture

Then it's NOT a bubble...is it?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:17 | 4323681 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

technically speaking, it's 12th bubble in the last 2 years or so...

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:29 | 4323840 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

How is bitcoin a bubble if it consistently recovers its meteoric rises every 6 months?  People dismiss things they don't undestand with words like "bubble"

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:32 | 4324399 digi
digi's picture

It's not his fault, most people can't tell the difference between the birth of an asset and a traditional bubble ever since government across the world started taking steps to "protect" also known as "disallow" average joes access to the ground floor of anything; with controls really ramping up about 80 years ago with the birth of the SEC and its international clones of various other govs. Of course they need to check first if it is "safe" also known as "massively profitable" for them first and then maybe a little bit for you much later on after they have already milked the cow for the majority of it's worth.

Here's a video related to this idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:52 | 4323757 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@css1929

Just another herp-derper stuck in the "NEW WORLD ORDER" tinfoil zone.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:11 | 4323938 akak
akak's picture

Just another zit-faced cybergeekpunk without any wisdom or historical perspecitve who nevertheless thinks he knows it all.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:44 | 4323888 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Just another bubble entering the public consciousness stage."

 

How can Bitcoin be a bubble if it is a global currency that nobody uses or owns?  Dollars are not in a bubble either, it's just the inferior product that will be phased out by Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 10:42 | 4324531 Caggge
Caggge's picture

It would be interesting if the other countries of the world used the Bitcoin model when purchasing oil. Call it Petrocoin. The petro-dollar would be lost to the US and probably would further bankrupt the US.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:37 | 4325073 silvermail
silvermail's picture

1. Bitcoin - it is not a currency. Bitcoin - it's just technology.
2. In the world no nothing  "global", "common world" or "world global". Everything, what have these words in the title, is owned the U.S. government or controlled the U.S. government.
3. "Global bitcoin" - in is product of the U.S. government, via which, they want to replace their old Ponzi scheme called "U.S. dollar".
4. First Ponzi scheme, changing to another Ponzi scheme. Smart people laugh. Idiots delighted and standing ovation.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:50 | 4323902 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Our entire universe is a bubble.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 04:33 | 4324343 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I Lol'd

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:23 | 4324396 digi
digi's picture

Hence why most ZH'rs want nothing to do with it, lol.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:43 | 4325081 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"Our entire universe is a bubble".


For this reason, everyone should feel free and to invest their money in any scam like shit-bit-coin!

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 06:46 | 4330103 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Yes I would agree with you. If somebody was trying to sell me a shit-bit-coin I would tell them to fuck off. Best to stick with bitcoin .

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:46 | 4323994 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Bitcoin system has a limit of coins. But Bitcoin system has no limit fragmentation of these coins.
Crushing coins Bitcoin to infinity - it's the same exact Monetary Emission, like printing FRN.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:52 | 4324261 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

No it is not like printing FRN's.  Each new FRN is the same value as all the other prior FRN's. This dilutes the asset value of the owners of the prior FRN's. That dilution of asset value is transfered (aka stolen) by the printing process, to the players given the new FRN's.

Cutting up the existing BTC's into smaller parts increases the number of (now smaller) tokens available to be used, BUT the holders of the existing BTC's are proportionally rewarded by holding more of the new smaller tokens. No extra player gets anything for free... unlike when new FRN's are printed.

This does not diulte the asset value of the existing owners of BTC's.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 05:55 | 4324383 silvermail
silvermail's picture

In Bitcoin against FRN, changed only the recipients, but the principle of infinite print money remains unchanged.
That is, changing only pig, trough remains the same.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 02:47 | 4324295 Mike Hunt III
Mike Hunt III's picture

10 dimes have the same value as one dollar. 10 tenths of a bitcoin has the same value as one bitcoin. Is this concept really that difficult? Divisibility is not a negative for Bitcoin. Case closed.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:53 | 4325103 silvermail
silvermail's picture

The divisibility, creates more parts, against a limited number of real products. Thus, divisibility, reduces the purchasing power of one Bitcoin without any limit.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:41 | 4325787 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You chop 1 kg of gold into 1000 parts and gold's purchasing power is reduced?  Durrrrrrrrrr!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 03:01 | 4324301 void_ptr
void_ptr's picture

Divisibility and homogeneity are among the attributes of money. It shares those qualities with gold.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:01 | 4325118 silvermail
silvermail's picture

You are confused between the two concepts - "divisibility" and "divisibility without any limit."
You can not practically be divided for a real use 1 gram of gold, at 1,000,000 units. And one dollar, you  can not divided for practical use at 1000000 units also.
But one Bitcoin, you can divide for practical use on any number of pieces - such as the 100 billion pieces.
Biktoin - a utopia.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:45 | 4325804 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Because dividing gold into sub-gram units is impractical is somehow an argument against Bitcoin?  You need to review some of your math skills.  If 1 BTC is worth $1000, the act of dividing it into 1 million parts does not affect the value of the parts in sum or other bitcoins.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:17 | 4323529 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

BTC tries very hard to 'compensate' a certain shortage in the physical pm markets. Divide & conquer.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:47 | 4325813 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

BTC tries very hard to compensate for diffuculties using PMs in exchange of goods and services in the digital age.  Ignorance is bliss.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 18:34 | 4323579 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

Crack Up Bitboom, Bitchez.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 00:41 | 4324205 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Crack Up Bitboom" I'm going to remember that one.  

Blessed art thou who works toward Satoshi conciousness.  The geek shall inherit the Earth.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 19:30 | 4323716 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

Bitcoin is receiving way, way too much news for it to be a competing currency to the dollar.  Some large entity is behind this digital currency.  It has all of the trademarks of someone like the FED or JPM which has perfected the ability to manipulate up or down values based on nothing but thin air.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 20:44 | 4323885 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The US government will do everything in its power to prevent a competing currency to the USD. They consider it terrorism.

Whether they will be successful is a separate matter than if they try so Btc advocates don't get your panties in a wad.

Largest Bitcoin Mining Pool Pledges Not To Execute '51% Attack' What if the NSA decides to start mining?

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:04 | 4323922 aerojet
aerojet's picture

So why hasn't .gov moved to end this scourge against them?  Seriously--Iraq got INVADED, Egypt and Libya got taken down.  I don't know what Syria's mistake was, I think maybe they're just a bunch of dumb hicks.  Saddam was trying to create an exchange for oil that shut out the petro-dollar.  

This Bitcoin thing stinks to high heaven.  It is the scam to end all scams, it will make Madoff look like the original Ponzi.

Sat, 01/11/2014 - 21:52 | 4324003 silvermail
silvermail's picture

1. You can not use any encryption without a license from the NSA.
2. You can obtain a license from the NSA, only if you provide for the NSA a back door for your service encryption.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 03:15 | 4324307 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You can use encryption with pen, paper and dice -- without a license. OMG!  NSA IS EVERYWHERE!  

Anyways nobody is convincing anybody rehashing the same old story.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:02 | 4324387 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"You can use encryption with pen, paper and dice -- without a license".

Only if you sit at home in the closet and write encrypted message to your concubine.

In any other case, for the use of encryption in public and especially for commercial purposes, you must obtain a license from the NSA. Otherwise, all your activities will be illegal.

 


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:37 | 4324403 digi
digi's picture

Heaven forbid we do anything deemed illegal by our valiant self appointed overlords. Fuck a license, no one on the internet cares, especially not open source software.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:07 | 4325131 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Open source does not release you from the obligation to obtain a license for encryption tool, which must conform to the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 06:44 | 4324406 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

THis is bullshit: "you must obtain a license from the NSA. Otherwise, all your activities will be illegal."  Source?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:09 | 4325137 silvermail
silvermail's picture

NSA and Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:53 | 4325830 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Still bullshit. AES was developed by Belgium cryptopraphers and is "the first publicly accessible and open cipher approved by the NSA".  Free libraries exist for many programming languages and none of them come with NSA licenses or threats of legal action if used. wiki it.

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