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Bill Ryerson: The Challenges Presented By Global Population Growth

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Adam Taggart via Adam Taggart via Peak Prosperity,

As we embark on a new year, it's important to keep the really big elements of our global predicament squarely in mind. To that end, we're surfacing this excellent discussion on population growth that Chris recorded in 2012 with Bill Ryerson of the Population Institute

At the heart of the resource depletion story that we track here at PeakProsperity.com is the number of people on earth competing for those resources.

The global population is more than 7 billion now and headed to 9 billion by 2050. If world population continues its exponential growth, when we will hit planetary carrying capacity limits with our key resources (or are we already exceeding them)? What are the just, humane, and rights-respecting options that are on the table for balancing the world’s population with the ability of the earth to sustain it?

Population management is an inflammatory issue. It's nearly impossible to discuss without triggering heated emotions, and rare is the leader who's willing to raise it. And by going unaddressed globally, the risk of problems created by overpopluation grow unchecked. War, poverty, starvation, disease, inequality...the list goes on.

Which is why we feel we need to have the courage to address this very important topic directly. And to have an adult-sized conversation about these risks and what can done about them.

In this podcast, Chris talks with Bill Ryerson, founder and president of the Population Media Center as well as the president of the Population Institute. They explore the current forecasts for world population growth, the expected future demand on world resources, and the range of options available for bringing them into balance sustainably.

We are adding about 225,000 people to the dinner table every night who were not there last night. So that is net growth of the world’s population on an annual basis of a new Egypt every year. In other words, 83 million additional people net growth annually. And that, from a climate change perspective alone, is a huge increment. Most of this growth is occurring in poor countries, so on a per-capita level, the people being added to the population have much lower impact than, say, if Europe were growing at that rate. But nevertheless, just from a climate perspective, with most of that 83 million additional people in low per capita greenhouse-gas output countries – this is between now and 2050 – at this rate of growth, it is the climate equivalent of adding two United States to the planet.

 

Clearly resources like oil, coal, and gas are non-renewable and will eventually run out or become more and more expensive and therefore not reliable as a source of energy. But what is the renewable long-term sustainability or the carrying capacity of the environment in each geographic territory, and globally? What is the current and projected future human demand for those resources, and do we have sufficient natural resources to meet our needs?

 

Doing this kind of accounting is not difficult. There are very good robust scientific designs for measuring resource capacity and human demand, and projecting out what do we need to do in some time in the next few decades in order to get from what is clearly population overshoot to achieving something that is in balance. Because as long as we are in overshoot – and the global footprint network’s calculation is we are now at 50% overshoot –  that means we are digging into the savings account of our ecological systems, as you mentioned: the fisheries being one, forests being another. We are eating into the capital to sustain the growing population.

They also explore why population management is such a uniquely controversial topic. Not only are moral, civil, and religious beliefs in play, but the debate is also heavily influenced by large corporate and governmental organizations protecting their interests. So it's no wonder that a calm, respectful, and reasonable conversation on population remains so elusive.

But we're going to try to have one here.

Needless to say, our moderators are on high alert and will step in if they are needed. Thanks in advance for your conscientious, levelheaded, and respectful comments. We have the chance to do substantial thinking on some really meaty questions here. Let's make good use of it. 

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Bill Ryerson (46m:26s):

 

 


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Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:53 | Link to Comment quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

One can't help but think with the obesity problem we face in the US that we will soon see numbers drop off.

otherswise, ,more twinkies and sugary sweets for aunt Jemima

#walmart "snack aisle"

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I think it's going to be a much worse reduction of population from a pandemic of drug resistant pathogens along with a rapid cooling of Earth cause the solar activity is dropping fast now.

Society and all technology will collapse leaving millions of ravaging barbaric suburbanites who slaughter each other by the millions before billions starve and freeze to death  from the cold climate.

Several very large asteroids then pummel the Earth causing massive tsunamis, fire storms and clouds of dust and smoke blocking what's left of sun light.

The Earth becomes a frozen ice ball lasting millions of years.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:08 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Yellowstone is getting flat assed scary. That mudderfvker is getting ready to blow and all the other volcanoes going off.. KerrrrrBlammmm bitchez!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I just wrote that very scenario into my above comment but was denied posting it.

That along with the New Madrid Fault letting go and causing a massive 11 Richter scale earthquake that drops millions of square miles  of land to drop below sea level causing  the ocean to flood all the way up to the Great Lakes before freezing solid.

Did I leave anything out?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:22 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

 

"but was denied posting it."

How were you denied?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:09 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

i'm long asteroids

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:57 | Link to Comment 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Seems the biggest problem facing Japan and the Euro countries is DECLINING population.    At least declining working age population.   And the same coming soon for the USSA and China.   Russia is also facing a  demographic apocalypse.

Otherwise this is just another rant from a wealthy westerner complaining that there are somehow too many poor people eating food when the land should all be used to grow ethanol for his hybrid car.

I find the whole "too many people" argument distasteful. If Bill Reyerson were sincere he would kill himself.

Sincere by the way is  derived from an Italian word meaning "without wax".    Damaged statues were once touched up with a mixture of wax and ground stone to hide damage.   Good statues were advertised as being "sincere" or without wax.

There are very few sincere people.   There is an endless supply of people who are full of shit however.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:51 | Link to Comment El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

After Israel became a nation the UN sent a team of 'experts' there to estimate how many people the area could support agriculturally.  It is old data but at one time they supported 5 times the UN estimate.  They export Tulips to Holland.  They are called the fruit basket for Europe.  I've heard this too many people argument my whole life and I am an old dude.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:44 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

The world allegedly produces enough food to feed 12 billion people, but like with capital distribution across the population, the distribution of food is inequitable and poorly designed resulting in tremendous waste and starvation.  (I am not espousing a statist 'solution' to what is obviously a problem but rather just making a point about global food production capacity.)

That said, even if waste and starvation could be alleviated, and/or production further increased, who wants to live in a world with 12 billion people?  Anyone who thinks the world isn't already over-populated hasn't traveled much, especially Asia.  It's true that here in Taiwan people have among the highest standards of living in the world, by several metrics--and this despite the world's 2nd highest urban population density, but people here are packed on top of each other, and 'quality exposure to nature' is not one of the metrics by which this society can be said to enjoy the highest standards; and according to my observations, it horribly retards aspects of their intelligence, individually and collectively.

Population growth has enabled amazing things like labor forces and tax bases large enough to construct space programs and enough geniuses to design them.  I have no doubt that the acceleration of technological development has been related to increased population--whether those people were the inventors or the tools.  I don't know what the ideal number of people might be, but I do believe that the great urban and suburban sprawls are divorcing people from nature and resulting in lower quality people; it's irrelevant to discuss how many or few would be ideal if those who would comprise society are cancer cells in it.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:01 | Link to Comment vie
vie's picture

Too many people argument is how they get everyone to accept killing off large swaths of the population.  TPTB seem to think this is necessary to keep humanity from devolving as all our technological advancement enables a sort general de-evolution of human-kind back into beasts.  Not that I agree.  But as long as people percieve everyone else to be a threat to their own survival though they're willing to look the other way, and it seems TPTB get away with it.  The irony is that as long as they get away with it, you could say it proves them right since for them to get away with it requires the majority of people to be too focused on themselves and driven by fear rather than logic.

Some of the most left leaning empathetic people I know seem to be onboard with the idea that humans are destroying the planet. Ofcourse it has nothing to do with governments or debt based currencies that inevitably lead to the whole world living beyond our means.  They wouldn't say it outloud, but you can tell if there were much fewer people on the planet tomorrow that would be just fine by them.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 10:20 | Link to Comment BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

The ideas of Thomas Malthus are older than any living human being, Neo-Malthusian catastrophe is essentially the same idea of demographics outpacing carrying capacity of Earth only with oil and energy in general this time around. Not to say there are no ecological problems caused by rapid economic growth, but they are not a function of population growth per se, but rather insanely wasteful allocation of resources. In that regard, 3rd World countries are not the ones contributing most of it, because their lifestyle restricted to only a fraction of standard in the developed world, both monetarily and resource-wise.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:36 | Link to Comment bilejones
bilejones's picture

Not to mention the hemmoroids

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

If the Tyler's denied every wacko spouting bullshit, the comments section would be really sparse.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:25 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Chemtrails and the HAARP is going to fry us with the return of the Nephliem who is going to feed us to their reptilian gods that are riding on the backside of Nibiru.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:51 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

O Qua Tanzin Wan!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:54 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

FYI...you can't edit a comment after somebody replies to it.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:56 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Flase-flags nukes.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:19 | Link to Comment masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

And the worst part is that the intelligent and creative are being replaced demographically by the unintelligent and unskilled.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:15 | Link to Comment jefferson32
jefferson32's picture

This "overpopulation" story is statist/eugenist propaganda. The scarcity meme is a hoax. And the most effective factor to limit natality is free industrial development, not .gov depopulation.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:33 | Link to Comment Nexus789
Nexus789's picture

One simple question. Is the Earth a closed and finite system? If your answer is yes then you might wnat reconsider some aspects of you comments.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:17 | Link to Comment vie
vie's picture

Lets assume it's a closed system and we can't possibly go populate and trade with people on Mars or the Moon for some odd reason.  To his point, the market will self-regulate the number of people on earth.  As efficiency increases more people will survive, and for longer, as resources become scarce we will either be foreced to increase efficiency or come up with alternatives as we have done through-out history.

Finite resources is managable, in fact, I believe that's what markets are best at.  More than having finite resources, the problem is having a debt based monetary system, and not having truely free market competition, one that doesn't let companies run to the government to regulate out the competition and create artificial dependencies in order to maintain control (ie. oil).  So, yes over-population is a made-up problem. 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:33 | Link to Comment X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

"problems created by overpopluation grow unchecked. War, poverty, starvation, disease, inequality"

 

ARE YOU SPEAKING OF AN OVERPOPULATION OF CB'ING BELIEVERS? OR HUMAN LIFE?

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:54 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

The ugly truth is we are way overshot. Billions are going to starve as cheap oil runs out. Not to mention the Pacific is dying which in of itself is going to starve more billions. I think we might peak @ 8 billion and then the wheels fall off.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

In my opinion, seven billion can easily be sustained, with an acre for every family. The problem isn't that there are too many people; the problem is that there are too many mooches.

Kill the mooches - fix homo sapiens.

Messiah - Final Warning, 1984 (Christian Metal done right without biblical references).

"People we've gotta change, but who's to blame?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZBRqAXvyvo

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:41 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that an acre for every family would be fine. Sure - there's plenty of land available, but unless these families stop having children, there's going to be an ever increasing need for more arable acres. That means a number of things - mainly, removal of forests and grassland to allot these acres, which leads to soil erosion, which then means a loss of nutrient and water storage capacity etc.

An acre for every person only considers the food consumption aspect of the problem, and doesn't cover the transportation portion, or even the most crucial part - water and its storage. If everyone was knowlegeable enough to use methods of farming that weren't water intensive and didn't require any pesticides, an acre for each family MIGHT work.

Moving forward from there though, can you imagine enacting that? It WOULD require MASSIVE population redistribution - can you imagine trying to provide an acre for each (successive) family in China or India? Millions of Africans would have to relocate as well because of the large swathes of desert throughout the continent. Siberia would be colonized, and people there would have to use animal husbandry to make sure there's enough wildlife reproducing each year to support their killing for food (because unless there's a major change in weather patterns, they'd be eating like the Inuits in Northern Canada/Alaska).

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:04 | Link to Comment bilejones
bilejones's picture

Don't worry. eventually they'll get the avian flue thingy right. End of problem.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:57 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Where we going to get the water for all the crops that have to be raised on that acre?  What is going to happen when the locust eats half of those acres. Remember the dustbowl? That was supposed to be able to support the people also. You are too simplistic with your "acre for everyone" theory.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

The water is under New Jersey. Monster pipeline to all points of the world. More lucrative than the internet! 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Over 3000 feet under the surface of the ocean, but more than 1000 feet above the ocean floor, there is supposedly unlimited fresh water due to hydraulic pressure and being at 4 celsius. If you remove water from that layer, the pressure from above will just result in it getting replaced.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Andre
Andre's picture

I would say we really don't know how many people are alive today. When you check out the gov census site and look at the references, a lot of those are from the 1950's and 1960's. When you consider Club of Rome's "Limits to Growth" came out in 1973 and was based on computer modeling from that era, I really have to wonder.

HAVE they updated the actuarial tables? Has the population decline in many areas of the world been factored in?

Another question, are we over-populated or over-developed? It costs less to cover farmland with concrete than it takes to tear down old factories and warehouses in inner city or former industrial areas and re-develop.

What about the fact we are using land for GMO corn for biofuel instead of corn for feed or food? Or the pollution of the water table by fracking?

This whole thing seems like a way to blame people instead of governments or corporations.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I don't think so. People are tough creatures.

Did you know that in the developped world, even poor people are getting fat?

I don't think that's because of a lack of food.

Shortages means money to be made for a sollution. And when people get hit in the face they come up with sollutions.

But why come up with a sollution right now when there's no need? There's no reason to do so.

In Azia, they eat bugs.

We'll keep growing like the US deficit. The only thing that will lower the numbers will be wars. And damn... the more we are the bigger the war. It will be epic! :)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:40 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Bugs my ass, they live on fish and the fish are soon going to be a thing of history books and the fvkin  ants are not going to feed 4 billion asians.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:39 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Poor people get fat from all carb diets. Carbs are cheap, but do not offer satiety in the bargain.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:41 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Yes, widespread obesity is more a sign of malnutrition, stress, endocrine disruptors, lack of excercise than a sign of prosperity. 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:50 | Link to Comment HaveBallsWillJuggle
HaveBallsWillJuggle's picture

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-end-of-population-growth

Jus need to hang on until 2050's then mathematics takes it's course.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

This problem of course will be resolved by the age old solution when populations collide and compete over resources:

WAR.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:58 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

War, this day and age is NOT the answer. Might have worked b/4 weapons of dead earth. Not any longer.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

There is a large difference between the answer and the result of a problem.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"And by going unaddressed globally, the risk of problems created by overpopluation grow unchecked. War, poverty, starvation, disease, inequality...the list goes on."

I'm calling bullshit on this. None of these problems are "caused" by overpopulation. We had plenty of all these things back when the population was 1/100th of what it is today.

Our planet is huge and could support a gigantic number of people if we could only start behaving ourselves properly. It's not rocket science and the answers on how to do so have been around for literally thousands of years.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:03 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Behaving ourselves, now thats a hoot. Maybe we should have told the Military that b/4 they used depleted uranium?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:09 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

I wish all these people bitching about overpopulation would lead by example and off themselves. Of course, they don't mean themselves, they mean darker skinned people breeding while sitting on a pile of resources that lighter skinned concerned world citizens could get rich exploiting.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:14 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

and b/c  the darkies are so backward they can only do tribal hacking and fvking chicken dances while most of the sorry bastards starve.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:40 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

Got any masonic mates in the west?  I'm sure they're doing similar things.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:46 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

All the masons in these parts farm millions of acres.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

"I wish all these people bitching about overpopulation would lead by example and off themselves."

What I wish is that they'd offer a solution or two. 

Me personally, I'd have to say that using what rare resources we have left to explore space is our only hope. And not through bureaucratic government bullshit like NASA but actual for-profit entreprenuers. I'm firm believer that when populations get too large or even precieve themselves as too large a "release valve" is nessary to offer an alternative to those that no longer wish to find themselves surrounded.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:02 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Space isn't the answer. It WAS the answer in 1969 (the peak of human intelligence and ingenuity - not just because of the (alleged) Lunar missions). If NASA had capitalised on the gains it had made and pushed forward towards even long-term missions to the Moon, we might have had a chance then of coming up with, and enacting, solutions to live somewhere else. Alas, we dropped the ball on that one.

That all pales in comparison with the major problem of living in space - access to water. There's only so many times you can recycle water through a filter before the filter needs to be replaced (and the water becomes undrinkable), and you'll need a constant supply of filters (either made where you are, or transported to you) or water (start trying to land a large ball of ice with a heavy line and large hook).

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

"That all pales in comparison with the major problem of living in space - access to water."

Right...because there is no water in space...

You know like on say, Europa:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_%28moon%29#Subsurface_ocean

or Mars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_on_Mars

or the freaking Moon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_water

or on extrasolar planets:
http://www.space.com/3673-water-extrasolar-planet-atmosphere.html

Yep, definitely no water out there.  Just like the early explorers couldn't find fresh water after sailing across the oceans.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:45 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

You must have missed the end of the second paragraph where I joked about catching a large ball of ice with a line and a big hook - insinuating that there IS water available in space. At no point did I say there was no water in space, so it's probably better you stick to what I actually wrote.

So, there's water on Europa - how much time and fuel are you going to have to spend building equipment, going there, extracting the water (considering it can reach as low as -200 degrees Centigrade, it's going to be hard to get any people or equipment to function properly), and bringing it back to somewhere that's at least in a near Earth orbit? Nevermind that we can't successfully drill much past 15km on Earth, and your Wiki link suggests the liquid water may be between 10km and 30km beneath the ice. If we simply try for cutting out the ice below the surface, it would only be beneficial to bring back multiple tons of ice. Those tons of ice though require LOTS of storage space and fuel to move it, depending on the gravity of Europa.

Or, even more energy intensive: living on a moon like Europa. Humans have trouble functioning for short periods of time at -50 degrees Centigrade - how are they going to survive constantly in much lower temperatures while building even basic shelter?

It's great that there's the possibility of water in other places, but the only one even remotely practical with our current technological capabilities is the Moon. Lets try and get there first, establish some sort of presence, use that water, and then we can consider moving on to other places.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:46 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"What I wish is that they'd offer a solution or two."

I have one, but not many people seem to like discussing it: euthanasia clinics.  Let the religious zealots shout themselves hoarse in protest; they're irrelevant.  Society should de-stigmatize death and euthanasia.  It is the selfishness of the survivors (and the greed of the sick-care industry) that necessitates the maximum lifespan for all, even the unwilling.

Instead, have clinics in every town, open to all--any of the miserables, regardless of age, health, or economic status; no appointments necessary, walk-ins welcome; optional counseling; in-clinic attorney for handling last-minute legal wills; post-mortem services available..  As you approach the door of the clinic, it is opened from inside by a beautiful and serene nurse who smiles as she gestures and greets you saying, "Come in, you're welcome here.  We'll take care of you."  She leads you through a beautiful atrium in the lobby, past a fountain, and you hear soft classical music playing as you are taken to sit in a comfortable reclining chair.  As you sign the few documents she hands you, another nurse gently administers an IV to your arm, and you begin a peaceful, dignified voyage back to the eternal nothingness from whence you came.

Billboards can be put in highly visible places with supportive messages, perhaps for example:

"Euthanasia: The Noble Choice"

"Actuality, Boldness, Courage, Dignity: Euthanasia"

Furthermore, if government is to be involved, then school teachers can ask children as they grow up to be mindful of not procreating poor genetics into the future: if they feel that their own genetics may be inferior, they could consider tax-credit-incentivized sterilization.  For pensioners or other dependents opting not to burden family or society further, single end-of-life pay-outs to next of kin may be offered.  The CBO might finally be able to confront the issue of unfunded liabilities: "Within three to five years of implementation, we forecast a 3-5% reduction in total population, with similar decreases occuring annually thereafter..."  Put the clinics in shopping malls, office towers, apartment complexes, factory compounds, next to elementary schools with a big blue, happy Doraemon on the door, next to high schools with a poster of Derek Jeter doing an Uncle Sam "I want you!" pose, and next to universities where they can have photos of Freud, Hemingway, and Hunter Thompson.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Exactly what population groups/countries/continents are growing in population? No one I personally know is even replacing themselves much less growing the population. Europe and Japan have been declining in population for years. So yes, I guess it is the dark skinned people who are breeding like rabbits, eh? As it apparently is not our responsibility to be the world's policemen, is it not a fair assumption that we are not their grocery store either? It seems a bit of madness that we are hell bent on doing everything we can to bring these forth-world backwater countries into the 21st century while at the same time bemoaning the fact that they will be burning oil and eating more western type diets. We are also struggling to get our mortality rates to the lowest in the world while complaining that all us old farts are going to bankrupt America. Am I the only one seeing some serious conflicts going on here?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:37 | Link to Comment X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

THIS DOESNT DESERVE A REPLY, HOWEVER THERE ARE WAY MORE WHITE-CRACKER-ASS PEOPLE ON THE DOLE. UR PATHETIC.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:41 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

THAT IS A VERY BOLD STATEMENT!

IN FACT, IT IS A CAPITAL OBSERVATION!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:02 | Link to Comment shepherd
shepherd's picture

 "that, from a climate change perspective alone, is a huge increment"

 What an imbecile.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:02 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

We can always promise the unwashed masses of the world amnesty and reduced college tuition if they come to the USA, because, you know, we are a rich couuntry with unlimited resources.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:06 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

We could build a number of huge Mega Liners, each holding 25,000 people and start up a new colony, perhaps in some tropical land like Brazil; tickets could be sold and people actually paid to take berths on these ships, reduce population troubles at home and start a brand new life in a far off land.

Then, when the ship is loaded and about 500 miles from shore it can be scuttled. Problem. Solved.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:50 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

My understanding is that's essentially the plot of the book on which "Idiocracy" was based, except they were being transported to a lunar colony but instead blasted into the sun.  :-)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Herdee
Herdee's picture

It's always been demographics.Try this one on for size:In China it is estimated now that by 2050 there will be over one billion people living a middleclass lifestyle.Even by 2020 the figures are astonishing.We're talking hundreds of millions.Resources,all kinds of commodities are the wave of the future.Sprott Inc. up here in Canada has excellent funds and Rick Rule does a great job in the U.S.The demographics of India and China are what will be the determining factors for world trade going forward.The demand will be there,no question.If your going to do a super long trade on any of the commodities,in my opinion you're going in at close to lows right now in this time period.Manipulation in Chicago and New York and London will not prevail against physical exchanges going forward.The shear physical delivery demand will outweigh corruption in those derivative-paper markets.It's already taking place,with gold as the leader.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:11 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Fvk gold, oil is king and always will be until we are back to clubing our women.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:55 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

I'm seeing these around all over the place:

http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/electric-vehicles/twizy/twizy/

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Muppetrage
Muppetrage's picture

If technology is truly on an exponential curve we will have systems that can provide basic needs to everyone. Once human labor and intelligence can't compete with technology ,which is already happening, everything changes. Nanotechnology gone wrong will be the end of life on earth.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Oh, and where does the electricity come from? Where does the energy come from to mine the materials, refine those materials, and manufacture the electric car come from?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:11 | Link to Comment MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

So, this guy is a pro-Georgia Guidestones kind of guy? Kind of a 'pro-kill useless eaters for sustainability' kind of article, I see.

'Clearly, resources like oil, coal, and natural gas are non-renewable and will eventually run out'...

How deep was the well in the Gulf of Mexico, anyway? The reported depth was 30,260 feet below the surface of the bottom of the Gulf (which itself is about 5,000 feet deep). Lots of oil down THERE, I see. STILL seeping out, by the way...

http://www.wnd.com/2008/02/45838/

HMMM. Dinosaurs and trees and stuff, all buried about 6 miles BELOW the surface of the crust.

Tree roots, you know...tree roots can bury themselves 6 miles deep. EVERYONE knows it!

We are not the only ones...

On 28 January 2011, Exxon Neftegas Ltd., operator of the Sakhalin-I project, drilled the world's longest extended-reach well offshore on the Russian island of Sakhalin. It has surpassed the length of both the Al Shaheen well and the Kola borehole. The Odoptu OP-11 well reached a measured total depth of 12,345 m (40,502 ft) and a horizontal displacement of 11,475 m (37,648 ft). Exxon Neftegas completed the well in 60 days.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole

Here is an 'in-depth' article with some information on the subject:

http://rense.com/general75/zoil.htm

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:14 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Right you are, Monty

Lots of precambrian forests down there 40,000 feet down, right? What a load of bunk.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:33 | Link to Comment MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

@ Mars,

The shame of it is, is that when presented with the facts, people still blindly obey the rote that has been 'taught' to them by their masters.

Global warming (A.G.W., now called 'Climate Change') was GLOBAL COOLING, in the 1970's. The Communist Menace became the Poverty Menace, the Drug Menace, and NOW the Al-CIA-DUH Menace. The difference between being taught WHAT to think versus HOW to think is quite a large one, it seems. Independent thought and logical processes have been replaced with 'groupthink', where one's importance is designated by one's popularity. If one doesn't agree, one is automatically 'shunned', and of course, led away for 're-education'.

Try reading the so-called 'debunked' 'Report From Iron Mountain'. THEN, read 'Earth In The Balance'. COMPARE the statements, and look for historical truths in both. Sadly, most can't be bothered to actually do so...

They rail against the Central Banks, and sometimes Obama, Bush, Gore, et.al., but fail when it comes to the agendas and actions of these.

Oh, yeah. FUCK YELLEN.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:50 | Link to Comment zaphod42
zaphod42's picture

I am not sure what you meant by your comment. 

Actually oil is created more from the sediment from rivers being deposited, and then covered by millions of years of addtional sediment.  Ask any oil geologist how it is formed.  We are talking about hundreds of millions of years of small marine shellfish dying and falling to the bottom of the sea, until when there is sufficient pressure and heat from that, it converts into crude oil.  In some locations (Wyoming for instance) there has not been enough time or pressure and it is not completely converted.  There, the "shale oil" is actually kerogen, and does not flow.  It has to be cooked.

There are other circumstances needed to make oil as well; something to prevent the oil (which creates pressure as it is formed) from just perking out of the ground as fast as it is formed.  A layer of salt or a dense rock formation overlying the oil holds it in.

It is because the way it is formed is so well known that geologists are able to know where to look for oil, and from the tell-tale geology how much could be there.  Also, since the amount of time/heat/pressure involved is known, the total possible amount of oil & gas present is also knowable. 

Some facts, such as the finite nature of our fossil fuel deposits, are not comfortable to contemplate.  I no longer worry about it since we are likely too late to do much about it, and if not too late now there is absolutely no indication that we are intelligent enough to change and do something in the future.  At least not when we can make a buck today by not doing anything. 

Anyway, not a load of bunk, except your statement about precambrian forests.  The Cambrian era took place before there were any trees, flowers, ferns or for that matter any plant life on land.  No oil came from anything before then...

Craig

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:22 | Link to Comment bilejones
bilejones's picture

Hence the Methane rains on Titan, Saturn's largest moon.

The evil Oil companies conspired to ship bottled cow fart up there.

 

What a bufoon you are.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:50 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

In agreement with the other post above, it's amazing how people resist facts and data.

The preposterousness of ancient forests "becoming oil" starts to sink in on people, so now it's, um, riverbed silt? Tell me how to make crude oil out of riverbed silt. (By the way, you know that you're dealing with bullshit science when the impossibility of an explanation is met with "but it took billions of years" comeback.)

Anyways, a few oil wells that refill themselves, and a few oil wells that are 40,000 feet deep, and a moon of a different planet with hydrocarbons, and you start to go..."hmmm."

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Bull crap.

Every single person on Earth can fit into Alaska comfortably.

The problem is not population. The problem is that prices are not allowed to correctly account for scarcity. It's been well established that humans are perfectly capable of regulating our own reproduction rates.

If prices were allowed to account for resource scarcity, the we would see adequate allocation of resources. The track we're on now is one of centrally planned resource allocaion, which always leads to mass murder. Every time.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:18 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

No, if oil was 1000 a barrel it is still not going to make any more oil over all. If wheat is 300 a bushel more wont magically appear. It is all about energy, not money. When the return of producing energy becomes a sink, we r fvked because money at that point is meaningless.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Right. If oil were at $1,000 it would mean you would be sending your capital into projects that avoid oil as an expense. See? It's easy. Just type in http://www.mises.org/ and start learning. It's exciting and you will start to see things a little more clearly.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:29 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

O I see now, Bitcoin will save us. We can all eat cyber carrots.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

No, freedom will save us. Freedom to trade for goods in amounts that we agree on. Freedom to trade always allocates resources correctly.

We don't need central planning. Stop it.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:17 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Does history back that freedom theory up? Or did they start regulating monoplies for a reason?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:35 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture
  1. Or did they start regulating those monopolies for kickbacks ?
  2. Duh!
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:44 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Oh yes we should still be paying 25 cents a minute for phone service through Ma Bell. Idiot

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

A monopoly can't exist without the coercion power of the state.

Stop the state, stop the poverty.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Really? The monopoly cannot simply use coercion on its own to protect itself? Without the power of the state, the business monopoly would also monopolize force.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

That's exactly what your fascist government is. Wake up!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:57 | Link to Comment BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

Centrally planned events and allocations often end up in the weeds for a variety of reasons.  Take the recently centrally planned traffic jam.  Unbelievable!  I guess too many people are so full of themselves they can't even see what the correct and honorable thing to do is from a big picture perspective.  I wonder if those involved with traffic jam had any religious affiliation or religious training in their background.  Their value judgement on right or wrong, good or bad seems to not be processing correctly.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:10 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

No they couldn't. 7,000,000,000 people divided by 1,717,854 square kilometers gives you 4,074 people per square kilometer. That's equivalent to the population density of the city of Auckland, New Zealand. That wouldn't be a particularly comfortable existence, and the stench would be amazing.

If prices were allowed to factor in scarcity, then there'd be a much lower population, because there would be fewer people with the money to purchase food, and a much smaller amount (if any at all) of food aid provided to countries where farming has become impractical (desertification and massive reductions in rainfall and water storage).

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Obamananke
Obamananke's picture

I believe TPTB already have a plan for this. Some form of population reduction.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:57 | Link to Comment The Shape
The Shape's picture

Unlikely, the laziest way to increase wealth is to increase the population you can sell to.

Sell moar shit, clip moar tickets, take a cut on the way through.

 

They'll stuff us into increasingly cramped hell scapes, keep up the divide and conquer routine and pull up the draw bridge on their castles.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

everybody who thinks there's to many people should commit suicide!

NOW!

And all he beautifull woman who feel there's not enough people can contact me by sending 20 nude pictures.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

How would a person killing themself slow down population growth? The marginal reduction in consumption of resources would simply enable someone else to have more children, and could, in fact, result in faster population growth.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:17 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Well folks, it is almost certain now that the babylonian govt of the banksters, or ZOG, is definitely going to try and pull off another false flag attack using the power grid take down as the precursor to do this. Martial law will ensue after many people are reported to be freezing. Talk about easy to read set-ups.

You can now see why all the chemtrials and geo-engineering is being used to hype the man made storms on the eastern part of the USA. The drive has been ongoing for a few weeks now to rally the lying dying lame stream media into hyping this created storm. It has been foretold here several times about what may be coming, and now this possibility is picking up traction. Those in the know, are letting the world know they know. Give thanks to the real Truthbearers who ware no panty lace and actually DO THE RIGHT-UP THING.

There are more and more every day that are finding themselves just completely fed up with the corruption and criminality of a totalitarian govt. The anger at babylon is building to a crescendo that will wipe out all the criminals soon. They will fire the first shot, the russian and chinese will attack, and then it is on like donkey-kong. It will be 300-million heavily armed Americans, against the communist/socialists forces dressed and looking like American soldiers. THAT, is part of the plan. To disguise these invaders as our own troops so no one knows the difference, resulting in many innocents being killed, or as the babylonians put it, "let them kill each other off, then we will take over the country using foreign forces under the UN/IMF/bankster flag..."

Here is just one fine comment from a page that is linked below that speaks to the unreality of the situation.

Quillian

"Dear Dave, Another excellent Post. Praise the Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost. The 80 page contract sent to every State Governor was a false flag as it was only reported by MSM to down play the RIGHT WING TERRORIST. In my reading of history, I have seen the words RIGHT WING TERRORIST/Conspiracy, But have only observed LEFT WING Communists do killing, terrorists strikes, bombings, and evil. Fascism, Communism, is left wing policy. Corporatism is left wing. True Capitalism is 100 employees or less, that is true capitalism. For with massive small business, there is no limit to what can be achieved. As soon as big corporations get in, the move LEFT, the push planned obsolescence, and quality goes to mediocracy. The MSM is pushing communism. Any one that says they are socialists, need to read Lenin’s statement, “Socialists are useful idiots for communism.”

"THE US has been taken over from within by treasonous communists, the Military took an oath to up hold the constitution, they are not doing their job. When Mike Zullo presented the evidence that obama is a fraud and NOT ONE Senator or Congressman did anything, they all committed TREASON. They will not give up easily, it will be difficult. Do as the French did in WW2, they threw wrenches in the gears of the nazis, the left facist, communist nazis. Sand in govt gas tanks, popped wheels, fences cut, slow in all work, that is what the individual can do."

From this excellent post by good ol Dave who is on later today on RBN. It should be a good show to catch.

http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/01/10/the-mother-of-all-false-flag-at...

 

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:21 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

O FFS P L E A S E spare us... where is that tinfoil hat?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:41 | Link to Comment Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

Chemtrails? Jesus...what a crock of shit. 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It's a Zero Sum game:  Competition for Space and Resources.  More hominids means less biodiversity and fewer other animals.

It does not matter which type of germ or yeast wins out over other germs/yeast in my Petrie dish, at some point their "lifestyle" ends when they run low on or out of nutrients in the dish.

Applied to the human scale and projected decades, centuries or millenia into the future, you just know that the "Petrie dish" that is planet Earth will define the "lifestyle" of its inhabitants.  Good luck in explaining that to the selfish and brainless "here-and-now" Bubbas though, who behave EXACTLY like germs/yeast cells.

In the final analysis, when you've felled the last tree, caught the last fish, shot the last wild animal, and met the EROEI limit, you will learn that you cannot eat money.  What god(s) will you worship then?  Besides the sun.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Is the earth an enclosed system, like a petrie dish?

Most of the things the human body requires to survive, come either directly, or indirectly from the sun.

I think your analogy needs some work.

Didn't junk you btw, I responded to your comment, because I usually tend to agree with you.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:08 | Link to Comment BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

By the time the next batch of oil has been cooked up by the Earth and Sun, cycling plant and animal materials from the surface down to depth to cook and being lucky enough to trap and cap it under a dome, I'm wondering who or what will be around to exploit it to thrive and survive?  That indirect cycle is quite a few years from what I've reasoned.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:33 | Link to Comment Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

I wasn't actually referring to the retarded dead end that are fossil fuels, and the life cycle of the western suburbanite.

Humanity can (and will) survive those.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:20 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

The Petrie dish is an artificial environment but so representative of life on earth. Everyday I watch bacteria logarithmically grow to the point they exceed their allotted nutrients and space. Then the die off occurs. Some are heartier then others ( perhaps some genetic advantage in an individual) but even when their comrades are long dead they too eventually succumb.
Sometimes they get lucky and I have a request from a dr for more testing. I scoop them up and replant them on a new nutrient rich Petrie dish and the survivors grow frantically once again not remembering their near death experience happy in their ignorance.

It is some what distressing to compare people to this but in many ways it's unfortunately true. The only difference is we can gnash out teeth and hand wring, debate each other's plans and fight each other in war to reduce our numbers. Humans, though sentinent and intelligence, are not immune from realities my bacterial friends experience.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:34 | Link to Comment Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Funny, I thought the earth was part of a larger system, and open to it.

I guess the smartest people in the room see a glass roof somewhere.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:44 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Countless stars out there with planets orbiting them; getting to them might take awhile, due to the distances involved.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

We might only make it to the stars, if we do so while we are still able. Declines in resources and technology may mean we will (or perhaps, already have) missed the opportunity.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:47 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

Yes Miffed, it's a bit of a fucker isn't it ?

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Zynga
Zynga's picture

Malthusian Catastrophe? How many times do we have to listen to this.

Please check if something is a hoax before forwarding the scary email.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Overshoot in a nutshell:

Malthus was an optimist.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

The only reason Malthus was not correct, was the development of the Haber-Bosch process. Basically, to perpetually avoid a Malthusian Catastrophe, we must forever invent new technology that enables more growth.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 23:48 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Malthus WAS correct, for the ancient Mayans, and Easter Islanders, and Norse Greenlanders.

And if he eventually proves correct for us, well, it is likely that nobody will be hashing it out back-and-forth on the internet saying "I told you so!".

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:22 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Well folks, it is almost certain now that the babylonian govt of the banksters, or ZOG, is definitely going to try and pull off another false flag attack using the power grid take down as the precursor to do this. Martial law will ensue after many people are reported to be freezing. Talk about easy to read set-ups.

You can now see why all the chemtrials and geo-engineering is being used to hype the man made storms on the eastern part of the USA. The drive has been ongoing for a few weeks now to rally the lying dying lame stream media into hyping this created storm. It has been foretold here several times about what may be coming, and now this possibility is picking up traction. Those in the know, are letting the world know they know. Give thanks to the real Truthbearers who ware no panty lace and actually DO THE RIGHT-UP THING.

There are more and more every day that are finding themselves just completely fed up with the corruption and criminality of a totalitarian govt. The anger at babylon is building to a crescendo that will wipe out all the criminals soon. They will fire the first shot, the russian and chinese will attack, and then it is on like donkey-kong. It will be 300-million heavily armed Americans, against the communist/socialists forces dressed and looking like American soldiers. THAT, is part of the plan. To disguise these invaders as our own troops so no one knows the difference, resulting in many innocents being killed, or as the babylonians put it, "let them kill each other off, then we will take over the country using foreign forces under the UN/IMF/bankster flag..."

Here is just one fine comment from a page that is linked below that speaks to the unreality of the situation.

Quillian

"Dear Dave, Another excellent Post. Praise the Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost. The 80 page contract sent to every State Governor was a false flag as it was only reported by MSM to down play the RIGHT WING TERRORIST. In my reading of history, I have seen the words RIGHT WING TERRORIST/Conspiracy, But have only observed LEFT WING Communists do killing, terrorists strikes, bombings, and evil. Fascism, Communism, is left wing policy. Corporatism is left wing. True Capitalism is 100 employees or less, that is true capitalism. For with massive small business, there is no limit to what can be achieved. As soon as big corporations get in, the move LEFT, the push planned obsolescence, and quality goes to mediocracy. The MSM is pushing communism. Any one that says they are socialists, need to read Lenin’s statement, “Socialists are useful idiots for communism.”

"THE US has been taken over from within by treasonous communists, the Military took an oath to up hold the constitution, they are not doing their job. When Mike Zullo presented the evidence that obama is a fraud and NOT ONE Senator or Congressman did anything, they all committed TREASON. They will not give up easily, it will be difficult. Do as the French did in WW2, they threw wrenches in the gears of the nazis, the left facist, communist nazis. Sand in govt gas tanks, popped wheels, fences cut, slow in all work, that is what the individual can do."

From this excellent post by good ol Dave who is on later today on RBN. It should be a good show to catch.

http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/01/10/the-mother-of-all-false-flag-at...

 

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Central bank Inflation and nationalized healthcare will fix any population related problems soon enough.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:31 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

I am going long soylent green machines.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:26 | Link to Comment CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture
DON’T PANIC — The Facts About Population (Gapminder)  "The world might not be as bad as you might believe!"

 

http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:40 | Link to Comment ExploitedCitizen
ExploitedCitizen's picture

Massive oil deposits being produced at 30,000+ ft below ground tell me these fuels are not fossil, unless dinasaurs lived 30,000 ft under ground, which is bullshit.  US gave China a contract for Iraqi oil, at $2/barrel, hardly expensive.

We have lots of oil.  Do we need 7 Billion people?  No!

I'm not for killing people, but for smaller families, and homosexuals who do not reproduce.

In a few generations we could have a sustainable population, and leave room for nature.  How is that a bad thing?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

Interesting point re: homosexuals. Nurture of adopted children notwithstanding, what member of a species could be less viable?  It's interesting how some recent science fiction movies depict the production of children through some kind of state-controlled factory environment outside womb and nuclear family.  What's the source of that alienating meme?  What is the future of conventional mating, gender and the nuclear family?  Shiver.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:16 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"recent science fiction"

You mean Logan's Run, from 1971, is still recent?

"what member of a species could be less viable?"

I know a lesbian couple that run a yoga studio on a Thai beach.  They seem pretty 'viable', economically and socially, and pretty much any other way I can think of.  They're pretty fit, too.  In a heartbeat, I'd say that the lethargic hordes of morbidly obese are far better examples of less viable members of the species.  Hot sweet little hippy lesbians versus revolting bloated arrogant masses?  Perhaps you'll retract your question?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:48 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

By 'viable' I refer narrowly to reproduction. Your example is better than mine.  Evolution appears to stop when sexuality no longer serves the express purpose of recombining fit DNA for another generation.  I think you're right.  Values and priorities appear to change with elimination of scarcity, like other aspects of social organization and acculturation.  Individuals and groups are freed to act in ways that economy would prevent otherwise.

You're right about Sci-Fi, too: gestation chambers were postulated in writing long before 'Logan's Run.' I just happened to think of 'Matrix' and 'Man of Steel' at time of writing.  One could argue that the 70s are still 'recent' in the grand scheme. Rgds

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

"Massive oil deposits being produced at 30,000+ ft below ground tell me these fuels are not fossil, unless dinasaurs lived 30,000 ft under ground, which is bullshit."

Do you believe in continental drift? If no, then really there is no discussion to be had. Your perception of reality is too different from mine.

If yes, look at the Himalayas. If plates pushing against each other can lift mountains tens of thousands of feet into the air, why is it so hard to believe that those same actions cannot push decaying organic matter from the surface, down tens of thousands of feet?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:49 | Link to Comment G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

 How is that a bad thing?

 

 you want to work all day and fvk all night so you can feed the kids to the aligators?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:07 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

'If world population continues its exponential growth'

 

I can see this prick yelling the same thing as a bacteria in a petrie dish.

 

The growth you see is Log S

 

At any point on the upward curve it appears exponential, until it doesn't, and then it isn't.

 

How hard can this be (given the easy access to spreadsheats)

 

Child mortality falls, old people live longer, TFR falls, average age rises, overall mortality rises.

 

Remind me again what this sites strapline is.

 

We are all destined to die (get over it)

 

 

 

 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 13:57 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

We do not have enough oil and coal for all the Africans and Asians to have Western lifestyles.

How do we get them to have the same life expectancy and infant mortality rates, and then fertility rates and demographic curves as us, while remaining much poorer?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:16 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

If you didn't need the King's money to pay the King's rent on your land, IE your property taxes, you'd be able to have your property paid off, grow enough to feed yourself and trade and not need to burn oil getting to "work."

Work would be in your garden, right outside. No need even for a car, really. You could rent one or borrow.

Your need for resources, such as oil, and cash income would drop to next to nothing.

But as you can see, a Nation of Freemen is more difficult to control, enslave, and rob. As your owners do not want that, it will not occur.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Though I agree with you that strong property rights are integral to the health of a country ( one reason this country is going rapidly into the crapper) I disagree about the complete sustainability of an individual. Crops do fail in bad seasons. Resources would be needed to transfer food/supplies from one area to another or famines would occur sporadically throughout. I do believe in rugged individualism but I know I cannot fully go it alone and at some point must rely on others even in the best scenario.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:08 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Indeed; Family, Clan, Co-Ops, Granges, neighbors and neighborhoods would flourish.

Multi-Generational housing would come back ... And if such a life is not for you, nothing prevents you from a more modern lifestyle.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:16 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

Bill Ryerson could do us all a favour by reducing the population by one (every little helps!)

 

'We are adding about 225,000 people to the dinner table every night who were not there last night'

 

Yes Bill what are we to do,

and more importantly Bill, what are we to do when 225,000 die every night, Bill,

Bill,

what are we to do when the mortality rate reaches 1000,000 per day ?

 

What happens to infinite debt growth then Bill ?

 

Bill ?


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:20 | Link to Comment A Cruel Accountant
A Cruel Accountant's picture

http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/03/feasting-on-locusts-a-recipe-from-mo...

 

You can eat them very tasty. Guess what you can also eat asian carp.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:22 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

The Butcher of Benghazi, Hillary Clinton, gets elected and we will have no problem with population growth of any species or breathing thing that walketh or crawleth upon the earth..

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:27 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

In the UK, the ONS (the Office for Nat Stats) claim that 1 in 12 of the population will be over 80 by 2030 (nearly 6 mn people)

What they don't say is that by 2050 5.8mn of those people will be dead

 

That's 5 mn properties released onto the market over 20 years

 

That's 250,000 properties per year of old stock plus what house builders want to throw ot there.##

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:29 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Want to counter over population?  Raise the level of education and the standard of living moves with it.  Might take 15 years, but guess what?  The bed has been made, sleep in it.  Even with thousands of studies indicating how education directly relates to options understood.  Not saying go teach people how to put a rubber on a banana either.

I mean education.  Math, Sciences, Art, Sports, all of it.  Currently the school systems of he world follow the half wit beat of the programs set forth as 'economically viable' by the UN as directed standards.  Well guess what happened?  People followed it for decades and this is the outcome of the resultant LAZY central (ivory tower with a twist of nepotism) attitudes put forward by people that obviously don't know what they are doing to begin with.

Want less kids on the planet in the short term.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/birth-contr...

Fix the problem of cost on an oooooold and well known technology that has been effective for 60 years, and getting better/cheaper/safer each year.  The problem is access to it if the average salary per month of women working all over the world is less than $2 a day.  Start there...

Otherwise want to find the root cause of over population and the landscape being striped to the studs?  Go look in the mirror, say your shit don't stink  then reflect on what you've pissed away your resources on over 100 years.  Don't bother imagining what could have been either because all that matters is what you do today.  So whinging doesn't fix a problem, nor does bombing it.  Thinking around the problem helps fix a problem.  If the solution doesn't work, dog pile ideas again and start reviewing options again.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:06 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

Ob1knob,

you speak many wise words.

I'm sure that Bill is sincere and were he to visit Manchester, no doubt he would contribribute to depopulation and he would no doubt contribute to a Keynsian redistribution of inherited wealth.

 

I am F'in sick of W'kers like this being given media space.

 

I Am NOT Interested In What People Like Bill Sumthinorother Has To Say

 

He is neither articulate or literate.

 

His readers are dupes or idiots

 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:32 | Link to Comment BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

ForTheWorld,

 

A lower population means reduced wealth, jetskis are chaep because a lot of people want them, ICBM's are expensive because the market is only a few.

 

Artificial Scaricity is the driver of modern capitalism.

 

Take water (that stuff that falls distilled from the skies)

 

Only licensed water distributers are allowed to distribute that stuff that falles freely from the skies.

 

I understand the socios playing the game, those are the rules your group made, but you ?

 

You understand that the only way to win is not to play, and yet you still make a move in the vain hope you are brighter than the socio nect door (you aren't)

 

 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:20 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

I'm not quite sure what post of mine you're replying to - I'm assuming the one where I mentioned the increased cost of food leading to a lower population because people would starve because less food could be purchased and less aid would be supplied (I'm not saying that as in that SHOULD happen, but I'm saying it in that it COULD happen). I'm not advocating any sort of population reducation.

What group am I a part of? What move did I make? I'm a little puzzled.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:40 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

What happens here in North America when we fuck the topsoil up by continuing to use harsh chemical fertilizers? We'll have a growing population facing ruined land, no longer suitable to grow crops.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:19 | Link to Comment pipes
pipes's picture

I think the plan is to let the Chinese deal with that problem...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:01 | Link to Comment kareninca
kareninca's picture

The ancient Mesopotamians faced this, and had religious explanations and solutions:

"Mere tiresomeness on the part of human beings could bring down merciless punishment.  A myth embodied in an Akkadian poem from the mid-second millennium (BC) shows the gods behaving towards mankind in the same way as Apsu had behaved towards the gods.  After human beings were created to relieve the gods of their chores, they multiplied so rapidly that within 1200 years their clamour had become intolerable, "the land was bellowing like a bull."  Enlil (one of the gods), unable to sleep, persuaded the gods to send plague  -  which effectively reduced the population and so the noise.  However, after a further 1200 years the population and noise were back where they had been.  This time rain was withheld, to some effect.  But still the problem recurred and Enlil was kept sleepless.  Outraged, the gods combined to withhold both rain and the yearly flood for six successive years, with horrifying results:  neighbors fell upon one another, parents killed and devoured their own children.  Only the intervention of the benevolent Ea saved mankind:  ostensibly by accident he let quantities of fish through to feed the starving. . . . . In the end Enlil assented to the survival of mankind  -  but only on condition that the numbers were kept down.  So the gods invented the types of the barren woman and the virgin priestess, and created a demon who specialized in killing children."  from Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come, the chapter on Mesopotamia.

Look out for those child-killing demons, and if you must reproduce to excess, do so very quietly.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:44 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"What are the just, humane, and rights-respecting options that are on the table for balancing the world’s population with the ability of the earth to sustain it?...And War, poverty, starvation, disease, inequality...the list goes on. "

"The list goes on."  And so do predictions that are later proven to be false.  In the 18th c the oft-cited patron saint of hysteria Thomas Malthus wrote that by the mid-19th century the Earth would be depleted of resources by its growing population.  Yet here we are 160 years later.

In 1968 Paul Ehrlich in The Population Bomb wrote that we'd have global famine in the 70's and 80's yet here we are replete with population having foregone his prediction.  One wonders whether 30 years later he would have warned us of AGW and the dissapearance of the polar ice caps.

Food production has outpaced population growth.  Plenty of arable land still to exploit, and hydroponics hasn't had its surface scratched.

You can fit every human on Earth in the state of Texas and have a population density lower than that of greater NYC.  Getting goods and food and water to all those folks in TX is not insurmountable.  Whether the water will be potable is a question raised by  Fukushima and future "Fukushima's" whether nuclear or other in origin, but those situations can only loosely be connected to population if you choose to hypothesize that population's demand for energy dictated that "Fukushima" be built.  That's a false argument, but it also neglects to consider that even it "it" needs to be built there is no requirement that "it" be built, located, and managed unsafely.

The UN's population bureacracy has estimations for global populaton growth.  Asia?  Nope, their population as a % of the whole reached it's zenith over 200 yrs ago.  US?  Nope.  That zenith occured 60 years ago.  Europe?  No again.  That zenith was reached 100 yrs ago.  That's not to say that those populations will not increase between now and 2100 or 2150.   Well, Europe is actually beginning to decline both absolutely  and as a % of the whole.  North America is flat from here on out.

So where's the growth occuring now and in the future?  Africa is the biggest source by far.  Africa's % of the whole has nearly doubled in the last 60 years.  A decade ago Europe and Africa had nearly equal populations.  The UN projects that by 2150 Africa wil have FIVE TIMES Europe's population.  Currently it's 50% higher.

Can Africa by itself support that increase?  Yes it can.  It's agribusiness has barely scrathced the surface in comparison to the rest of the world.

Chicken Little can be found everywhere.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:44 | Link to Comment deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

We have those demons here already. It is called abortion. The old people are next. Nature is funny though in that what won't be sustained wont be. I remember Earth Day back in early 70's. Mother Earth and all that shit. Wow spell check capitalizes Mother Earth but not god. Well in early 70's we were told standing room only by 2000. Yup. Hey ask the Japanese tsunami victims if Mother Earth was just in a mood that day. Mother Earth my ass. I have one mother and I know right where she lives. Consequences for poor stewardship is what we will reap!! Nothing more and not a damn thing less.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:49 | Link to Comment DaveA
DaveA's picture

Since the first cell divided in two ~3.6 billion years ago, Earth has never been big enough for all the organisms that wished to occupy it.  Every plant must fight for a place in the sun; every animal must fight for food, and to not become food.  After subjugating all other animals and most diseases, humans still have each other to contend with.  No technology can support exponential population growth forever, so humanity must cull itself once in a while.

If you choose not to fight, you lose by forfeit.  More education and contraception for females is not the answer.  Nations that do that are going extinct, their populations replaced by foreigners born of poor, illiterate, fertile women.  Why do you suppose the Taliban burn down girl's schools and behead their teachers?  Because an illiterate woman produces, on average, four more babies in her lifetime than a woman who attended school just long enough to learn to read.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:23 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture
I studied Bill Ryerson's Web site a while ago. I was not too favourably impressed. Anyway, anyone interested in my overview on these questions could read my comments that I posted in another recent article which raised similar themes:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-12/hope-face-disaster-%E2%80%93-cr...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Nassim
Nassim's picture

Funny how they drag something called "climate change" into every sort of end-of-world discussion. Estimating future populations (barring war, meteorite strikes, new flu strain) is an accurate science. Estimating what the climate will be like in 30 years is well neigh impossible.

"Climate Scientist: 73 UN Climate Models Wrong, No Global Warming in 17 Years"

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/climate-scient...

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:15 | Link to Comment pipes
pipes's picture

This is nothing more than the perpetuating of another false dichotomy...and virtually everyone falls for it.

 

On the one hand you get baited with an overpopulation argument, and the other hand baits you with AGW/Agenda 21 controls.

 

"Resources are being squandered! We must enact state controls to protect the global population!" says one. "There are simply TOO MANY people on the planet and population growth is out of control! If there were FEWER PEOPLE, we could ALL have enough and we wouldn't have to worry about resources!" says the other.

 

You - sitting between these two charlatans - are DUPED into believing there is a legitimate battle going on. The evidence of this legitimacy is the vehemence with which these two camps seemingly fight. It is NOT IMPORTANT which side you come down on, as far as these charlatans are concerned...what IS important is that you accept the premise that there ARE sides, as then, you have swallowed the false dichotomy, and can be controlled accordingly.

 

Some "reasonable" or "moderate" thinkers out there will take the luke-warm middle ground, and look for compromise and balance. You have been EQUALLY duped, and you are every bit the mark in this con. In fact, you exemplify the GOAL of the con being run.

 

Thesis + Antithesis = SYNTHESIS

 

Most all of us have seen this rendering of the Hegelian Dialectic before...yet we CONSTANTLY allow ourselves to be caught in it over and over again.

 

Just like the ultimate moral of the story in the movie "Wargames", the only way to win...is to not play.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:29 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

If you know any stats for global consumption per capita (ie. water, energy, etc) ... pull it up and see which countries are at the top and at those at the bottom.  Generally, you'll see a pattern of where the richer countries sit.

 

 

Here's one example Household final consumption expenditure per capita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consum...

 

 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:33 | Link to Comment GCT
GCT's picture

Why get upset about over population anyways.  Most know that governments will simply start another war to cull the population.  I do not think we will ever have to worry about overpopulation.  We will destroy ourselves first.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:22 | Link to Comment Guinny_Ire
Guinny_Ire's picture

Somewhere, a progressive think tank analyst is writing up a thesis justifying the use of war for population control to save the planeet.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 13:30 | Link to Comment pavman
pavman's picture

@ 29:40 he explains what his agenda is.  This guy is so full of crap.  The bigger, and younger the population, the better the economic conditions of the country (e.g. GDP growth and sustainability are better with a larger and younger population).

There's a population timebomb approaching and if we don't get replacement levels back up by 2030s two things will occur: 1. Sharia law will start to invade the west on an unprecedented level and 2. We'll enter the new dark ages.  Fuedalism is coming my friends, stay thirsty.

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