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Bitcoin ATMs Are Coming To New York City

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With over 1,000 new merchants adopting Bitcoin every week, it is perhaps not surprising that, as NY Post reports, the first Bitcoin ATM is about to debut in New York City. Following success in Canada and Europe, Brooklyn native Willard Ling, 30, is set to introduce the first bitcoin ATM to New York City at the East Village bubble tea shop 'Just Sweet'. State regulators with the Department of Financial Services are expected to hold hearings later this month to discuss how the digital currency should be regulated; and until then, Ling’s bitcoin ATM will sit in his apartment.

 

Via NY Post,

Josh Harvey, co-founder of Lamassu, showed off the first bitcoin dispenser at last week’s Consumer Electronics Show and has found quite a bit of interest for the $5,000 machines.

How does the ATM work?

The machine, designed and manufactured in Portugal, looks like a typical deli ATM — but functions more like a vending machine. You put in US dollars and receive bitcoins back on your phone.

 

 

Users first download a bitcoin wallet mobile app — such as BlockChain or Mycelium — and set a password. A black-and-white QR code appears. They press the phone against the ATM’s glass window so it can scan the code, then feed in cash.

 

Presto, the machine sends bitcoins to the phone.

Coming To New York...

Brooklyn native Willard Ling, 30, is set to introduce the first bitcoin ATM to New York City.

 

After scouting locations, he has chosen the East Village bubble tea shop Just Sweet, on 3rd Avenue and 12th Street. He is now in talks with the owners on a rent deal.

But there are still hurdles...

State regulators with the Department of Financial Services are expected to hold hearings later this month to discuss bitcoin and how it should be regulated.

 

Until rules are drawn up, Ling’s bitcoin ATM will sit in his apartment.

 

He thinks New York should get on with it if it wants to still be considered a center of finance.

We would tend to agree since, as Mike Krieger at Liberty Blitzkrieg notes, over 1,000 new merchants are accepting Bitcoin per week (via BitPay alone)...

Earlier today, the Bitcoin news website Coindesk reported that BitPay is adding 1,000 new merchants per week, within an article highlighting the fact that private jet company PrivateFly had just teamed up with the payment processor to accept BTC for its charter flights.

Just to put this into perspective and understand just how staggering this growth it, BitPay only first surpassed 1,000 total merchants in September 2012 and a total of 10,000 in September 2013. At its current growth rate, the company is set to double the milestone of 10,000 merchants every two and a half months. Incredible.

From Coindesk:

“We believe that merchants are starting to see the value that accepting bitcoin can bring to their business,” said BitPay’s Jan Jahosky. “We’re adding merchants at a pace of 1,000 new merchants per week.”

 

“We expect exponential growth in the popularity of bitcoin around the world with both merchants and consumers, and anticipate seeing the biggest growth in China, India, Russia and South America.”

Full article here.

 

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Sun, 01/12/2014 - 13:59 | 4324861 cdude
cdude's picture

The Shoeshine boys are demanding them!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:18 | 4324897 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I think it's more the white shoe boys. Something really stinks about BTC.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:19 | 4324901 CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin, bitchez!!!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:32 | 4324920 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Man, I love Bitcoin.  Everyone should buy Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:40 | 4324942 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"Man, I love Bitcoin.  Everyone should buy Bitcoin."

We know already.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:44 | 4324959 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well if you have heard it enough why are you not out there buying Bitcoin until your hands hurt?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:54 | 4324983 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

this things a mal-ware killer. the ulitmate in "hacker holocaust." an open source protocol involving money...and making sure it is "redeemable" (in the sense that it can be withdrawn in equal amount with the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM in transaction and storage fee.) go ahead..."make it illegal." is the money itself worth anything? I would argue "no" actually. Hence "bitcoin" cannot be "regulated" or deemed "illegal" because it is a paradox...as in "why bitcoin?" not "bitcoin per se." not a buyer of the currency...but certainly find the technology very intriguing. basically "a dirt cheap ATM simply providing all that is needed to know" namely...I am who I say I am...when dealing with cash transactions. In theory for those willing to allow its deployment this could provide ENORMOUS confidence in "banking systems." In other words if the Banker himself tries to abscond with the savings "i've have a picture of you" and that picture will not only follow you around the world...but because of the i-phone "will make you a target of surveillance."

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:08 | 4325124 synergize
synergize's picture

hmmmm a currency with no physical form, no gov't backing, that can be regulated out of existence any day now, with no limits on creation, with no proven history, and that can be stolen from my computer by a pimple-faced 16 year old hacker...

I think i'll keep my gold and silver for now - wake me up when Goldman starts pushing it.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:59 | 4325240 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Physical form, your physical computer can read the physical harddrive, where the physical state of electrons is used to create a physical representation of bitoin.

Govt backing, you are correct on this, thank god!

that can be regulated out of existence,  jus tlike file sharing was regulated out of existance,  or alcohol during prohibition

with no limits on creation, you obviously dont know what youre talking about here,

with no proven history, but is being proven every day

and that can be stolen by a hacker,   bacsed on everything you wrote above, I sense you are lazy and not willing to educate yourself. I also assume this is why a hacker can steal your coins. You are too lazy to learn how to create a strong password or secure your money.

Keep your gold and silver. I woul dnever suggest you sell them. However I would encourage you to stop being intellectually lazy and learn about bitcoin, rather than dismiss it for bogus, un-educated, and just plain wrong reasons.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:51 | 4325222 Barking Seal Troll
Barking Seal Troll's picture

 

 

"ABSOLUTE MINIMUM in transaction and storage fee"

Lower than some others?  Yes.  Offering less services than others?  Absolutely.

btw, my cash transactions conducted yesterday had no upcharge.  In fact the petrol station gave me a cash discount.

"a dirt cheap ATM"

How much are the ATM owners charging you to deposit cash (and spending your time) in exchange for Btc that you can then spend...at the same places as you can already spend the cash? 

Oh boy, there's a value proposition for the masses!  If you'd counter that you can spend the Btc online whereas you cannot do the same with cash, would you have us believe that the person who owns a smart phone to use at the ATM has no credit card??  Their credit card might even offer a 1 to 5% cashback bonus or _______ (insert your reward here)

Or are these ATM owners investing their cash with the expectation of no return from you?  Perhaps they are relying on fees from business owners who will all clamor to install one to cater to the teems of trendy jerkwads demanding one? 

Thank you for your service (but one must wonder why you feel the need to self-identify as such, and whether the eponym is supposed to sway us)

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:19 | 4326048 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

If New Yorkers want bitcoin, where should they go to get them?  Access to Bitcoin in the United States is quite restricted, are you aware of this?  Yes, New Yorkers can acquire BTC from the ATM and immediately turn around and spend them, even if just for novelty purposes.  But they don't have to.  They can save them on their phone and spend them later or transfer them to more secure long term storage.

When will entreprenuers get off their asses and set up Gold ATMs in the big apple?  No profit potential?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:46 | 4324960 wretch
wretch's picture

I shouldn't need to say this on ZeroHedge, but it's a bad idea to virtualize your assets.  The Tylers jumped the shark when they started pimping Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:58 | 4324997 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

this is true. what is really need is some type of Star Trek like device that can shrink all physical assets to an incredibly small size (a "zip file" for say...your furniture...) thus being able to put it on your debt card or something and walk around all day without worrying about storage costs.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:14 | 4326055 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Nah, I like to get some excersise when I go pay my rent with silver bullion.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:38 | 4325075 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"I shouldn't need to say this on ZeroHedge, but it's a bad idea to virtualize your assets.  The Tylers jumped the shark when they started pimping Bitcoin."

 

Bitcoin just won't die.  I don't see it being that Tyler is pimping it.  Tyler is reporting on a monetary phenomenon that continues to grow in importance, despite multiple expectations of its demise after various setbacks.

I think people need to stay tuned and see what developes.  Tyler is doing us a service to keep us informed.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:48 | 4325093 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Some protocols on the internet have fallen out of favour over the years whether it be IPX, rlogin, etc, etc but none have ever been forcefully killed off.  If such a thing were even possible it would beg the question of why the best funded people on planet Earth have not been able to kill the .torrent?  Part of Bitcoin's beauty is that it exists simultaneously as a currency and an internet protocol.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:07 | 4325533 Fíréan
Fíréan's picture

"Bitcoin just won't die.  I don't see it being that Tyler is pimping it.  Tyler is reporting on a monetary phenomenon that continues to grow in importance, despite multiple expectations of its demise after various setbacks.

I think people need to stay tuned and see what developes.  Tyler is doing us a service to keep us informed."

Your "Tyler" is a collective of anonymous contributors to a website. How do you know the intentions of the particular writer (or collective of writers) of any individual article. You can only trust the editorial staff's intentions , i guess.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:44 | 4325086 shepherd
shepherd's picture

1 month ago zerohedge was still badmouthing bitcoin.

Zerohedge is actually behind the curve on bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:47 | 4325487 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@wretch

Yeah, ZeroHedge is no place for financial news about new currencies. What is Tyler thinking!!? </sarc>

I guess someone would rather sit in his bunker counting gold coins waiting for the air raid sirens.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:10 | 4325874 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Drat, those are our only two choices?  Buy Btc or sit in a bunker counting gold? 

btw, what of those who don't now own gold?  Do they have to either buy gold or Btc?

Your generalizations and strawmen are pathetic and do little but discredit your brethren who try to advance their argument with reasoning and facts. 

Cue the ad hominems and nonsequiturs.........

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:49 | 4324967 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So bitcoin will now officially become a complete & total USD currency, to be taxed, traced and in all manner tracked as the USD?

"You put dollars into the bitcoin machine and bitcoin are magically & digitally sent to you NSA/FBI/IRS/CIA/LEO monitored smart phone."

How conveeeeenient....

More importantly, what's the point of bitcoin now, exactly?

How long until the IRS accepts payment in BTC? Cerealously.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:49 | 4324973 fonestar
fonestar's picture

This has been addressed a million times.  If you're still asking these "questions" you're either willfully ignorant, a shill or someone only intent on spreading FUD.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:05 | 4325009 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Are you the kettle, or the pot?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:00 | 4325246 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

[cue song]  "If I can make it there, I can make it anywhere, so come on New York, New York..."

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:49 | 4325489 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@TruthInSunshine

Given your moniker, I'd expect a little less of this kind of logic.

Its obvious Bitcoin has to interface with the legacy financial system for a while. This is a natural extension of that happening. Just like with the exchanges, they will serve their purpose until sovereign funny-money is usurped.

ATMs, Face-to-Face Trades, Exchanges - they are all the economic shunt that allows bad money to be changed into good. We won't be needing them after we've succeeded. Well, maybe for the old fossils that can't understand the world has changed around them yet again.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:54 | 4324982 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

It's Ling-sanity!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:24 | 4324903 CH1
CH1's picture

Something really stinks about BTC.

Basing the charge on something more solid than your imagination might be a good idea.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:35 | 4324927 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Yeah. The rabid response from the "advocates" of bitcoin brings to mind the the virulence shown by the 9/11 deniers. An eerie similarity. 

 

Common sense should surely tell you that bitcoin wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell being accepted by major merchants, all owned by the very people who create "money," unless it was backed by those very people. Bitcoin ATMs? Please! Give me a break.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:38 | 4324934 CH1
CH1's picture

Have evidence?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:57 | 4324993 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Evidence that I have common sense? Dude, let it rest.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:41 | 4325204 john39
john39's picture

essentially the same treatment given to "climage change deniers"...

bitcoin is a NSA/central banker experiment.  they are going to roll out a digital fiat currency.   It will result in increased misery and tyranny for the average person.  wake up people.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:51 | 4325654 CH1
CH1's picture

Yeah, I thought so. You have nothing but dark and dear imaginings.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:48 | 4324969 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I believe many conspiracies are perfectly valid because there is causation and motive.  In the case of Bitcoin conspiracies there simply is none.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:52 | 4324978 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Are you Satoshi ?

What color is the boathouse at Hereford?

Have you ever had a grasshopper?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:52 | 4325101 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

You talk about a fuckin ambush?

 

I ambushed you with a cup of coffee!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:57 | 4325672 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

No, but he cleans Satoshi's virtual pool.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:53 | 4325230 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Fonestar do not waste your time!

I learned a long time ago not to argue with close minded idiots.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:06 | 4325259 Barking Seal Troll
Barking Seal Troll's picture

He's not arguing.  Rather, he's making statements that lack foundation.  Then sprinkle in ad hominems, straw men, and nonsequiturs.

"Buy Bitcoin!  I do!  Everyone cool does!"

Insert question here:____________.   Fonestar reply: "That's been settled a million times.  You're an idiot.  Shut up.  Go away.  But don't forget to buy Bitcoins on your way out."

Now, THAT'S a prospectus that passes every sniff test.  Where do I signup?

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:54 | 4325498 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Barking Seal Troll

How neat! Your admiration for my coined phrase is flattering.

As to the reason Fonestar just flipped the script and went nuts on you guys is you treat every Bitcoin proponent in the same way.

The same attacks, the same straw men, the same name-calling, etc...

What's wrong, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

How amusing.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:28 | 4325933 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Do you speak for fonestar or are you channeling him?

"Well, maybe for the old fossils that can't understand the world has changed around them yet again"

Straw men, ad hominems, and nonsequiturs is that accusing gauntlet that I slapped you with.  Thanks for using it.  Incidentally, is being an 'old fossil' a term of endearment?  Changing your name to "pot" or "kettle" anytime soon?  In consideration of 'truth in advertising' at least.

As to a tally of which side calls the most names when their dogma is challenged, I'd gladly wager my lungs that your side would have the most. 

As you apparently can speak for fonestar, would you please answer the question that I've posed to him FIVE times?  (Re his selling Btc at around 200USD/Btc "to pay some bills", and then buying back in a few months later at 800per.  He stated that multiple times mid Dec, and it does appear to refute his professed unfailing idolatry for BUY BUY BUY Btc, and it more than gives the appearance that he doesnt believe his own bullshit and that we should not take investment advice from such a "savy" investor)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:05 | 4326022 fonestar
fonestar's picture

This has been explained several times.  I was forced to sell some BTC at that time.  What is so difficult for you to understand?  Five years from now, whether you bought at $200 or $500 will not matter at all.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:59 | 4325242 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

There is way too much positive press out on Bitcoin.  Everytime I've seen something like this have a meteoric rise usually means its being pumped and manipulated by a very powerful hand behind the curtains.  It's like the 1990's NASDAQ bubble on super steroids. 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:37 | 4325470 Gold Eyed Cat
Gold Eyed Cat's picture

Al Gore said Bitcoin is super duper.  Thats when I deleted my MtGox link, stopped updating, and called it done.  But you guys feel free to play and I'll watch a while!

Right now I have no use for it.  I'm going low low tech and focusing on building trade relationships with local producers.  My untraceable p2p transactions are person 2  person.  Here I can trade silver dimes for boxes of PDX-1 .380 ACP, beautiful handmade sundresses and quilts, wood, or amazing vintage china.  I have not met anyone yet that is interested in what I have in my digital wallet.

Maybe if I traveled the world like DoChen, it would be useful to carry a couple grand US in bitcoin.  I couldn't say.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:22 | 4326071 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Excellent.  PMs and Bitcoin complement each other.  Fuck FRNs.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:27 | 4326859 runningman18
runningman18's picture

The banksters are playing this one close to the vest.  The marketing on bitcoin is slick, though.  Hey, if it has an ATM on every corner, it must be real, right?  Bitcoin is just a soft sell on a global digital currency controlled by the cartel.  If it actually represented an attack on the bank controlled paradigm, they would be trying to smash it, and they definitely wouldn't be giving it so much attention in the media.  I don't see much smashing going on, at least not like the Chinese are implementing, and the U.S. government is just as socialist as they are.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:28 | 4324908 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Doesn't this pave he way for one world currency?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:33 | 4324923 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Not really, Bitcoin is a one-world currency.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:55 | 4324986 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"Not really, bitcoin is a NWO currency."

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:03 | 4325004 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Again, I'm asking for evidence FraudInSunshine?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:10 | 4325020 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

It just struck me, the difference between 9/11 deniers and bitcoin advocates. Bitcoin advocates demand evidence, knowing that none exists. 9/11 deniers ignore evidence, knowing that a plethora of it exists. Other than that, pretty much the same. Same lousy arguments. Perhaps the same hired hands.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:04 | 4325125 shepherd
shepherd's picture

You believe a Boeing hit the Pentagon and then vaporated?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:14 | 4325142 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I believe 9/11 was a false-flag and the whole Pentagon, missile issue is a bullshit red herring.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:59 | 4325243 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Thank you for at least showing some common sense. BTC on the other hand.............

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:11 | 4325022 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

One always knows when an arrow finds its mark when the Ad Hominems start flying.

Fonestar is wounded.

He asks the doubters to refute the scam that is BTC more resolutely even as BTC is more tracked/administered/regulated by the governments of fiat money themselves.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:29 | 4325058 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is a distributed ledger system, so it doesn't need to be "tracked".  So you're either someone who has done absolutely no investigation into Bitcoin or else a pathetic shill

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:49 | 4325068 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So you're claiming, here and now, that you can prove that bitcoin ATM transactions won't be monitored, tracked & audited by units of government?

If so, this would mean that local, state and federal (i.e. IRS) authorities are going to willingly allow commerce that can't be taxed to take place, openly and widely.

Do tell. Please. Everyone here would benefit from your wisdom as to how they can escape taxes legally and without fear of penalty.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:51 | 4325100 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Since your obviously hard of hearing, hard or reading or stupid let me say it agian for the millionth time... addresses are not people.  Or as someone artfully put it on another forum, "on the blockchain, nobody knows you're a fridge."

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:01 | 4325113 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Right, so New York and other cities, as well as the Feds, are going to let Bitcoin ATMs be set up all over the place, and leave them unmolested forever, never wanting to delve into their transaction taper.

OH, OKAY!

Why not just hang a sign around them reading "Laundry Machine?"

What about signs more to the point - "Tax Free Onshore Havens?"

OH, OK FONESTAR.

lmfao!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:06 | 4325127 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

What these suckas is forgetting is that all ATMs have at least one camera on 'em.

Smile, mothafucka!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:11 | 4325135 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Fonestar could be right, though.

Maybe the government will soon pass legislation titled The Unicorn ShartingSkittles Tax Exempt Act, barring local, state, or federal tax or other authorities from examining cash registers or 2nd sets of books in places of business, too.

Back to reality, bitcoin ATMs are just one of the ways government will track, measure and tax (and penalize) bitcoin commerce. Same as it ever was, and no panacea.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:16 | 4325145 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"What these suckas is forgetting is that all ATMs have at least one camera on 'em."

I would personally not use any BTC ATM that wants personal information.  There are safer ways to acquire Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:20 | 4325152 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

How will you know if it does or not? Decoder ring?

What about the super resolution CCTV cameras everywhere?

Let the caveats begin. Keep adding/piling those caveats on, higher and higher.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:26 | 4325167 CH1
CH1's picture

TiS: You should not treate TPTB as if they were omnipotent. They are not.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:30 | 4325176 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Be that as it may, there's literally only 1 reason I can think of as to why GOVERNMENT WILL ALLOW/LICENSE bitcoin ATMs.

It's not out of benevolence nor lack of power, either.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:01 | 4325513 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@TruthInSunshine

The level at which you've "given up" is pretty dire. We've always expected them to fight it, its assumed. Obviously they'll ram all the KYC rules and anti-laundering regs down our throats as well. That's fine. Its part of the process before fiat becomes usurped.

Thing is, you're convinced that it can't possibly work. How is a new currency/economy supposed to kickstart itself without interfacing with the old system? In what magic utopia do you just declare "Use this please" and everyone jumps on board?

The incentive is there, in the exchange valuations, in the network processing power and the near-zero fee models. (Naturally, everyone concentrates on the Fiat <-> BTC angle, ignoring that it is a temporary phase at best.) This is how something new gains a foothold.

And while they're busy trying to craft their regs and laws to make sure everyone has a piece of the pie just like the "good old days", it will be a poison pill eating up their monopoly money. That's how it will work - provide the greedy bastards incentive to integrate it, then the massive killshot when it takes over the fiat host.

I find your argument unconvincing, because if Bitcoin had very little adoption - you would no doubt be decrying its validity because of it. But when someone actually uses it, then you're saying its part of the big old evil plan all along.

You can't have it both ways, pick one and stick with it, please.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:26 | 4325586 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It's not to "give up" when one recognizes that one alleged substitute for that which ails the system is not only as inferior, in many ways, as that which it seeks to supplant, bit is actually worse in many ways.

I'd have no problem endorsing bitcoin as some sort of pure, sensible & workable replacement for shoddy monopoly fiat currency as issued by central banks, whose monopoly status is enforced by the state apparatus - but it's in no way, shape or form any such thing.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:41 | 4325627 CH1
CH1's picture

I like you, TiS, but you're presuming this:

If TPTB haven't killed BTC, they must be behind it.

You have no evidence for this whatsoever, and you are assuming that TPTB are gods. That's not like you.

And, yes, you are giving up on this fight. Here's a tool that can do an end-run around the cartel, and you wish it to die. Something's wrong with this picture, isn't it?

If you think BTC has some flaw, that pitch in and fix it. Anything that routes around the cartel should be welcomed.

Reboot, please.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:32 | 4326085 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Paraphrased: "bitcoin is no way, shape or form a pure, sensible & workable replacement for fiat currency"

Overstock.com and 1000+ merchants per week seem to disagree.  

But how would you improve on it?  What features is Bitcoin lacking?  What features does Bitcoin have that should be removed?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:22 | 4325046 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

it's not about the bitcoins themselves. bitcoins are just the marketing means.

The machine costs 5000 bucks, a miner costs thousands, the fees that they slap arround your ears mount up pretty damn high.

I recently bought 1 bitcoin just in case I'm wrong about this crap and I paid 6% in feed. I'll pay another 6 to convert them back to euro's. Anybody who says otherwise hasn't bought them, point.
And that also shows how many liars there are here on Zerohedge about their bitcoins by claiming there are no such fees.

So it's all about the fees and the hardware. Bitcoins are and will be one of the most expensive to trade unless you stay in bitcoin. So it's kind of a rattrap.

There's plenty of people who profit from it and the early adopters won the cream of the pie. But let's not and nver forget that 75% of all bitcoins is owned by the owners and crooks behind bitcoin, not by the adopters.

And by te amount of money floating in bitcoin and the fact that it's a marketing concept I'm pretty sure there's plenty of paid pumpers on all the blogs and for sure there will be over here also. A penny a post to sell crap.

So why did I buy one?
Because of my faith in the common people.
Most of them are retards and there will be enough who will put in a thousand and blow the bubble. So if it's a bubble I might as well own a piece and make some profits on the lambs.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:01 | 4325369 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

"So why did I buy one?"

I think it is worthwhile to set up the software and obtain a small amount, just to learn about the system. Now that I have done so, I have seen immediate problems with the system. I don't have to worry about the constant attacks and harassment from the Bitcoin promoters here, who cannot see the obvious weaknesses in the protocol.

I would not consider any personal attracks from anyone here who does not give a full accounting of their own participation in crypto currencies: Were they an early adopter? Are they a miner? If they mine, do they use a home computer set-up or are they a large commercial operator or run a mining pool? Have they ever actually spent Bitcoin on any real-world purchase? Do they intend to pay taxes on their capital gains or profits? Do they intend to evade currency controls or ant-money-laundering laws? etc.

Without answering these questions, their credibility is highly suspect, especially when accompanied by harassing, insulting, bullying, ad hominem attacks.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:59 | 4326275 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Hey Sudden Debt,

I assume you went through localbitcoins.com or something similar and didn't want to jump through the hoops to get market price at Bitstamp? 6% premium is what I charge for the service of buying BTC on an exchange and holding it until I meet the end-buyer in a coffee shop, assuming maybe 1 in 15 such meetings falls through.  I assume these ATMs will charge somewhat less fees and I'll have to start buying my own coffee  ;)

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:48 | 4325217 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@BandGap: "Doesn't this pave he way for one world currency?"

What's your point?  PMs, H2O and O2 are also a "one-world currency".  Universal acceptance is not the same as central control, if that is your implication.

The difference between, say, BTC and SDR is that the value and acceptance of the former determined by the free will of people everywhere, whereas the value and acceptance of the latter is determined by a small group of CBs and their bosses.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:22 | 4325431 North Sea Cowboy
North Sea Cowboy's picture

Like Gold used to be?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:38 | 4324940 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Sure, let's see how long that lasts with De Blasion in office. They'll go the way of the 64 oz. soda.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:22 | 4325048 dow2000
dow2000's picture

Did anyone actually think the NWO was going to announce their new ONE world currency?  Bitcoin has CIA written all over it.  What better way to get people to adopt single world currency than to cloak it defiance and anarchy. 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:04 | 4325519 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@dow2000

Actually, the NEW WORLD ORDER is already here. Its the chains of debt, enslaving entire generations across the globe. You're worried about Bitcoin? Dude, you're already a slave. Arguing about whether Bitcoin is the guilded cage is terribly misplaced.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:55 | 4325837 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Dow2000, I posted this comment yesterday it's a point I can't seem to overcome in the BC debate:

"...The entire system of BC depends on the Internet. Who invented that? How many 3letter agencies intercept/read/copy/file/store every single f'ing thing on that Internet?

The evil we are not to speak of wants to steer all commerce to a single, global, cash-less system. They MIGHT want BC to flourish (said might because my crystal ball is in the repair shop), to get people use to having a digital-only form of transaction.

Once that system is in place, total control is just a keyboard click away.

But what would I know, I'm not sold on this concept nor do I see any form of cyber-savior. I only see the opposite... Cyber Hell."

I have read pro/con statements from some of the brightest minds on this forum, but this comment just brought the sound of crickets.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:24 | 4326357 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

<<"...The entire system of BC depends on the Internet. Who invented that? ">>

 

LEARN TO USE A GODDAMN SEARCH.  http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventednet.html

<<"How many 3letter agencies intercept/read/copy/file/store every single f'ing thing on that Internet?">>

Nobody knows the answer at this point in time.  How many bears are shitting in the woods?  We know they do it, we don't know how many are doing it.

 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:26 | 4326546 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Wow, excellent input about the search. That was a rhetorical question. Did I really need to add a sarc tag too?

The point was we don't have a clue how secure the backbone is, you know, the very means of making BC viable long term. However what we do know as fact is that every part of these transaction are monitored and saved indefinetly. That alleged privacy was a selling point of BC right?

The intention of a singular digital currency, if eventually forced upon us will eliminate transaction privacy forever. That is slavery, and your ability to transact could be eliminated.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:45 | 4326572 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin doesn't solve everything.  It does however make it possible for me to send value to anybody anytime anywhere with internet connection quickly and cheaply, while bypassing banks.  Bitcoin is psuedo-anonymous, not completely anonymous.  A completely anonymous decentralized monetary system without counterfeits has not been invented yet.  The BTC addresses  (that can be created on-the-fly and recommended for single-use-only) are used in combination with the public ledger to protect against counterfeits. It is up to the end user to take steps to protect anonymity -- distancing oneself from those random addresses.  As far as privacy goes, Black Markets and such are popping up all the time.  Various projects are in development to make it easier for normal users to protect their privacy.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:40 | 4326606 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Alright TH, let me start by saying thanks for at least some attempt to address my points. However you, or anyone else, have not done that yet.

I never said anything about BC solving everything, however you are right it does not.

Sending value anywhere via the net is only as viable as the backbone, or the desire of our agencies to allow it. That is real, and you know that.

BC being pseudo-anonymous is part of my problem, it is NOT anonymous. There are traceable ISP's behind every credit/debit. Before you or anyone else tells me there are ways round that, I already know. However, for this to turn viral/global enough to make the BC price say 10K, there will be MANY users, they will not, on average, know how to be private eliminating another alleged benefit to them.

My new issue, is this alleged bypassing of the banks you mentioned. In reality, the banks controll everything like the governments, agencies, politicians. I do not believe for an instant the banks have nothing to gain here. On the contrary, I believe this to be a giant trial-balloon to see how it (pseudo-anonymous digital-currency) goes, who wants it, how fast will it be accepted, how can people be trapped by it (if desired) and half a dozen other results I don't feel like typing out. Sure you get my point right?

There are some large issues here that don't add up, smell right, or seem viable to genuine long term, private, secure transactions. Block chain length is also becoming an issue to itself, but I digress.

An anonymous system does in fact exist, it is P2P; that system can use any medium it chooses. This changes when ALL transactions legally/lawfully become digital-only. This is a major part of my point, namely that BC is the introduction to a single, digital, world medium of exchange. That is Hell.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:41 | 4326116 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

So the CIA wants a currency with a hard quantity limit?  So the CIA wants most of that currency to be created in China, Russia and Eastern Europe then exported to the west in exchange for USD?  So the CIA wants these discussions about what is money, what is fiat, what is Bitcoin, what is Gold, what roles do they all serve?  So the CIA wants people to start learning and using encryption because a world of plain-text doesn't bring in enough tax revenue?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:51 | 4325099 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

cdude   The Shoeshine boys are demanding them!

Comment:

Then they better get them before the CEX corner the market.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/01/ghash/

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:38 | 4325195 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

there's a link in the comments section that goes into much further detail about how a selfish miner can corrupt the blockchain:

http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/

excerpt: We're the first to discover that the Bitcoin protocol is not incentive-compatible. The protocol can be gamed by people with selfish interests. And once the system veers away from the happy mode where everyone is honest, there is no force that opposes the growth of really large pools that command control of the currency.

before anyone responds with any rebuttal, would advise them to read the authors' responses to the criticisms already forwarded to them.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:13 | 4325549 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

CEX about to corner the market? Why the hell do people claim that Bitcoin is  decentralized? If some group CAN corner the market, it WILL happen. What a joke.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:03 | 4324867 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Honey, or money, trap ?

"Gold is money, everything else is credit",sic.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:14 | 4324881 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Yesterday: "cash 4 gold dawg! Trade in your worthless gold for cash today!"

Today: "bitcoin 4 cash dawg! Trade in your worthless cash for bitcoins today!"

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:15 | 4324887 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The fleecings will continue until morale improves.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:17 | 4324895 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I almost forgot...

Tomorrow: "____ 4 bitcoin dawg! Trade in your worthless bitcoins for ____ today!"

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:18 | 4324896 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Edible iPads ?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:59 | 4324999 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I lost my digital BTC wallet in a tragic boating accident.

Good thing there is a fully documented, traced, recorded e-file of my BTC stash. I just need to contact my friendly government apparatchiks to obtain proof of this now.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:12 | 4325025 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

No, you just have a copy of your e-Wallet somewhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd-GbG2WmW0

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:25 | 4325054 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I love the concept of edible iPoops, but the movement away from physical to digital has been promoted by the gubs and already embraced by dumbass masses. I think we're all trying to figure out what the name of the next gub-sponsored/enforced digital fantasybux currency is. It could be "eCash," or "digiBux," or "Imperial Credits," or anything, really. I don't want to use it - just want to know what it will be called is all (so I can make fun of it).

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 04:18 | 4326630 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

I really think you have a good angle here Skateboarder.

Get away from P2P trades using metal or whatever as a medium, exchange that concept for a complicated (to be private) medium that keeps P2P out of the loop to be conducted via a completely controlled/monitored/recorded exchange.

The banks and their bitches, would love this to be a springboard for global digital exchange. Then just outlaw P2P w/o digital, and you have Hell on Earth. Perfect environment for a budding evil control freak to take over to a level never before obtainable.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:29 | 4325313 Barking Seal Troll
Barking Seal Troll's picture

interesting perspective.  by analogy i'll refer to the script/scrip used by 20th C military occupiers in Viet Nam and Japan.  "Red script is no good.  Now you need green script." 

The intent of the color changing was to prevent a black market but that failed miserably.  The black market surrounding that made some people rich.  Left in the lurch were the hoi polloi left holding the wrong colored script/scrip. 

Supposedly some Viet Namese businesses mistakenly accepted Monopoly money from soldiers.  The businesses were aware that a scrip was coming but they had no idea what it looked like.  Unscrupulous solderiers passed it off.  Hmm, not a bad analogy.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:05 | 4325525 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Barking Seal Troll

You're sure living up to that nickname, I can tell you that.

You already have monopoly money, its in your wallet now.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:03 | 4325006 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

"Zerohedge is a pro-Bitcoin website"       fonestar                                                                                            This is a seriously lame article, call us when something verifiable happens in the bitcoin world. Right up there with the story that someone bought a Tesla with bitcoin- never happened. 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:17 | 4325030 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

No, some guy has a $5,000 USD (paid for with dollars/FRNs) BTC ATM in his apartment in Manhattan and is just waiting for government apparatchiks to finalize the monitoring, tracking, administration, recording & taxing of bitcoin transactions before he can install it at his bubble tea shop.

Don't you see how BTC is so superior to fiat currency & the many advantages its users will enjoy?

Even ZH repeats that thousands of bubble tea shops are waiting to get in in the action.

Look to Overstock.com. They're in the Fortune 500,000.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:30 | 4325034 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I can't give you enough upvotes or thanks for likening BTC to bubble tea shops (it's an inevitabilitea!). You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:07 | 4325532 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@TruthInSunshine

Read my other comments before inserting both feet in your mouth, it may save you some embarrassment.

Or just join in with the other barking seals - thinking differently is hard for some, I suppose.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:29 | 4324910 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

From 1637 to 1661 cowrie shells "the white and the blueu" legal tender in Massachusetts.  Gold is an excellent store of wealth, as currency it leaves a bit to be desired, it is actually better off not circulating.  Currency is often the most useful expedient which also allows the most friction free economic activity and has the highest confidence.  Bitcoin is excellent currency (aka "circulating medium").  Money can take a number of forms, one of the most common being bank loans of course.  Currency, money, wealth... these are all different things and served best by different mediums.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:46 | 4324962 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

You can't print Cowrie shells...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:10 | 4325019 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Exactly.  What is more you can't rumble them in a barrel, collect the cowrie shell dust, and melt that down into new cowrie shell ingots.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:04 | 4325860 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

Seems then that the most practical application of technology might be to have digitized accounting of PM at banks and allow transfer globally. Would be very simple and as long as it remains 100% redeemable, it would be the best way to serve those who wanted to use banks and those who didn't. Paper notes could be issued as well.

it's fair and easy.

Then people need to stop being taxed and let free markets determine money flow.....transparent small simple govt to serve anything the free market doesn't meet and competing banking with real money.

It's a start anyway

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:09 | 4324872 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Ok.  Time for a bitcoin to gold atm.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:13 | 4324882 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Sorry.  Not willing to sign in to read that.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:22 | 4324884 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   You don't have to sign in? I pulled it off a google search.   The link is directly to the information page. Upvote yourself much? You've been floating around in that dinghy too long .

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:35 | 4325069 qqqqtrader
qqqqtrader's picture
The link takes me to... "You must sign in to read past the first answer."

You're right, you don't have to sign in... I didn't!

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:45 | 4325087 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I appologise if you guys can't get into the link. Here's a screenshot of the link when I click on it. http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/13/udij.png

  I am not a member of quora, or signed in to anything. Here's the google query I used. It has other good links about the topic.

  what is the difference between coinbase and bitpay - Google Search

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:11 | 4324877 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

I love this:

State regulators with the Department of Financial Services are expected to hold hearings later this month to discuss how the digital currency should be regulated

Screw those arrogant aholes.  Bitcoin transactions are inter-state and they have no authority to regulate them.


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:19 | 4324899 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Here's a shot of a government trying to regulate Bitcoin:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hQdX6IFjbys/T_cRRKl44QI/AAAAAAAACQI/LswHQjKHJw...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:30 | 4324914 CH1
CH1's picture

Shhhh.... let them think they can win.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:46 | 4325088 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

They no doubt can with ATMs, for the reason that Jeff Berwick pointed out after a Canadian BTC/ATM project he was working on fell apart:

"After a day or two of pondering, I have realized that this may truly be a blessing in disguise. The biggest issue with Bitcoin ATM, and one that I have stated in the past many times, is that it is hardware. Any government, anywhere, can just come and take it away. It was always the Achilles heel of this product."

http://bitcoinexaminer.org/the-many-problems-behind-the-bitcoinatm-partn...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:29 | 4324911 CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin transactions are inter-state and they have no authority to regulate them.

First: Fuck authority.

Secondly: These guys don't take any rules seriously. BTC upsets their game, so they want to kill it. They'll hire judges make them look clean, and TV heads to keep the suckers believing.

Your initial comment, however, was great: Screw those arrogant aholes. 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:35 | 4324928 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

surely they are doing it For The Children! /sarc.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:54 | 4325105 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

CH1 - Bitcoin transactions have nothing to do with the Commerce Clause in terms of the ability of local or state governments to assess taxes/fees on the medium of use, itself.

If this were the case, specific states wouldn't be able to charge a deposit fee for soda or beer bottles or cans, especially since the soda/beer being sold is made out of state, as is the container it comes in.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:30 | 4325175 CH1
CH1's picture

have nothing to do with the Commerce Clause in terms...

I agreee, TiS, but I don't care, and I don't for a moment believe that US "officials" give the first damn.

This is anarchy now, and Washington DC is the big, evil gang that the horror stories warned of.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:44 | 4325084 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Bankers tend to do that: pretend to not like something, like a bill or proposed legislation, yet behind the scenes, through lobbists and strawmen, doing everything to ensure its passage/acceptance. Diabolical, really.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:55 | 4325107 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

They can regulate anything that comes in their state. Yes, I know that the Fed Government has jurisdiction on commerce crossing state borders or international borders. But once something is in the state, the state will regulate. For example: Sales tax on internet sales. More and more states are pushing for this and businesses like Amazon have already made agreements with many states.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:13 | 4324883 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I didn't feel very comfortable exchanging cash for bitcoins on Internet. But I did it.
I didn't feel very comfortable meeting someone I never met before and exchanging cash for bitcoins. But I did it.
I will never be comfortable using Bitcoin ATM on a city street corner.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:30 | 4325059 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

I didn't feel very comfortable exchanging cash for [crack] on Internet. But I did it.
I didn't feel very comfortable meeting someone I never met before and exchanging cash for [crack]. But I did it.
I will never be comfortable using [Crack] ATM on a city street corner.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:15 | 4324889 ACjourneyman
ACjourneyman's picture

I believe Bitcoin is poised to hit 10K by the end of the year but it will take balls as big as steel to get in. on the flip side, I went to download a FB app on my kids tablet and read the licensing agreement. You have to sign over your rights to privacy and allow FB the use of your camera and images as well as the use of your messages and contacts. WTF, if that doesn't tell you FB and that little prick ZuK are tied into the NSA then I don't know what will. I hope FB goes to zero, there is no more FB accounts here.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:50 | 4324974 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Snowden is Mark Zuckerberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFmfe0uFyyA

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:37 | 4325190 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

RS         This is a area for some who are willing to get out of the box. Zuckerberg went to school with GAGA, This is a scenario repeated over and over with celebs. Actors are put into the mix as high profile persons, but biometrics don't lie. Greenberg actors controled by Rockefellers are out there all the time playing parts in the GREAT PLAY. Disney was far more than a cartoonist. Living outside of the box is a little disappointing, the ZH community are mostly inside dwellers so don't expect much of a responce. I am open for your opinions.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:09 | 4325264 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I was having a similiar thought before you posted.  I watched part of that Zuckerberg is Snowden.  There was footage of an award show by Hollywood for Silicon Valley - gag.  Hollywood and TV are the propaganda arm of the govt while Silicon Valley is the surveilance arm of the govt.   Govt stooges giving each other awards.

Anyone remember Disney and possibly Orson Welles doing a film in the 1930(?) about Latin America and how they were our friends.  It was propaganda to keep LA from going communist.  Who is big in LA?  Rockefellers.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:30 | 4325318 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

Freddie       Gag indeed, nothing more putrid than the glitterati spewing out puke for the created scientist/actor/politician of the moment. Don't remember the film of which you speak, but Cali went pinko a long time ago so I guess it was to no avail.Keep your eyes open and it will all become very clear.     

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:45 | 4325340 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Look up Laurel Canyon California by Dave McGowan... USAF top secret studio called Lookout Mountain.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:06 | 4325380 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

RS   Read Dave's work long ago and have posted many times on how controled the "counter-culture" was back in the 60's and 70's which has eventually ruined this country. Many of the rock stars were children of DOD/MKULTRA/CIA and went to school together. Had to laugh in a thread once that when I posted Frank Zappa was child of MIC/MKULTRA and deplored the hippie culture, posters were miffed and vexed and said that was why he was the rebel. As I said, don't look for much of a responce from folks around here. Just a coincidence that Morrison's father was in charge or assisted in two of biggest false flags in history. Actors , acting.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:56 | 4325361 Barking Seal Troll
Barking Seal Troll's picture

see also: crisis actor

tinfoil hat time or WTF?  I hadn't heard the term until the shootings at the Nairobi shopping mall.  The argument that the same cast members appear at other crises was compelling.  LAX shooting, Sandy Hook, and more.  If even 0.01% of that is true, then we are living in a de facto Matrix.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:11 | 4325397 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

BST       You are living in a de facto matrix under de facto corporate law. Put your sunglasses on and you will see it.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:09 | 4325667 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Tekken is our future. Watch the intro - it's the plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTaTQHrGSbs

p.s. you gotta watch through the first fifteen minutes. Epic shit.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 21:56 | 4326000 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

Amigo      While we wait for sh$tcoin to become the global crypto-currency, haha in the not too distant future we will have the new and improved plastic bucks. Notice in Tekken that Global Blue preferred currency is plastic. Not as in credit cards but thin plastic notes, aka folding money. Act 3 will bring the destruction followed by a new more in your face prison structure, why not the corporate Iron Fist?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:16 | 4324890 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Bitcoin answer will soon be had.  "How it should be regulated..." is the problem.  Why can't it just be seen as a barter system where no government regulation needed?  Like I give my neighbor my extra shovel in exchange for his extra beans.  NO REGULATION NEEDED. 

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:36 | 4324930 Vuke
Vuke's picture

"NO REGULATION NEEDED" ??  That's true of most things but have you ever seen a government that could resist the temptation?   Particularly if they can profit from it.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:57 | 4325110 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

So why do you need bitcoins to give your neighbor an extra shovel in exchange for his extra beans?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:10 | 4325544 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@sessinpo

Beans don't keep so well when you need to send them across the world, also it takes a while. But that should've been blindingly obvious had you bothered to think about it at all.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:43 | 4325335 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Bitcoins will be brought into the fold.... it will be done at the exchange windows.. noone will be able to buy or sell unless he is marked.. they will know you coming and going... theyre going to let shit run wild for now, get everyone comfortable and used to it.. then theyll reign it in.. Bitcoins is nothing like ripping a song off peer to peer/torrent.... bitcoin needs to be settled in cash at some point.. that song you stole doesnt... p2p is one half of the transaction..the other part is the most important one.. getting paid!!.. thats when they slap reality back into the virtual...

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:47 | 4325810 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Fed needed relief valve for inflationary pressures. Stock market is already overloaded liquidity and is in the zone bubble.
Now, such a valve for relieve inflationary pressures will Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 22:51 | 4326138 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

They can legislate human behavior and hope/force compliance at the individual level but they can't force regulation directly into the bitcoin protocol.  The U.S. or any particular gov't can also go and fuck itself while Bitcoin goes on to operate just fine in other countries or strictly in the black/grey markets.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:19 | 4324900 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Why

Numerous individuals within the U.S. Government have been interviewed regarding the Liberty Dollar. The Liberty Dollar organization asserts that one U.S. Secret Service agent has stated "It's not counterfeit money"[11] while remaining "skeptical" of NORFED. Another agent is reported to have warned that the Liberty Dollar "appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 514."[11] The minting of Liberty dollars also appears to be in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486:

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

The promoter of the Liberty Dollar asserts that Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for the U.S. Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, had previously said American Liberty Currency is legitimate. Dickens was quoted as having said "There's nothing illegal about this", after the Treasury Department's legal team reviewed the currency. "As long as it doesn't say 'legal tender' there's nothing wrong with it."[12]

In 2006 the U.S. Mint issued a press release stating that prosecutors at the Justice Department had determined that using Liberty Dollars as circulating money is a federal crime. The press release also stated that the "Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[13] The Justice Department also stated that the Liberty Dollar was confusingly similar to actual U.S. currency, and the language used on NORFED's website was deceptive.[14]

The Liberty Dollar organization responded to the Mint's press release by stating that "[t]he Liberty Dollar never has claimed to be, does not claim to be, is not, and does not purport to be, legal tender."[15] The promoters of the Liberty Dollar have asserted that the Liberty Dollar is not legal tender, and that legal tender and barter are mutually exclusive concepts. The promoter asserts that the Liberty Dollar is a numismatic piece or medallion which may be used voluntarily as barter.

And Not

U.S. authorities, appearing Monday at the first-ever congressional hearing on virtual currencies, outlined the pitfalls and promises of bitcoin amid concern the anonymity and decentralized nature of some virtual currencies can help facilitate crimes. The hearing provided a financial lift to bitcoin as U.S. officials, who have previously highlighted the currency's role in money laundering and other illicit activities, called it a "legitimate" financial service.

"The Department of Justice recognizes that many virtual currency systems offer legitimate financial services and have the potential to promote more efficient global commerce," Mythili Raman, acting assistant attorney general for the department's criminal division, said in testimony before the SenateHomeland Security and Government Affairs Committee.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, who didn't attend the hearing, said in a letter to senators that virtual currencies "may hold long-term promise, particularly if the innovations promote a faster, more secure, and more efficient payment system."

The price of bitcoin soared early Monday after the officials' statements were widely reported. On one exchange, Tokyo- based Mt. Gox, the price topped $700. Bitcoin traded at about $13 in January.

The congressional hearing is the first of two being held this week, with the Senate Banking Committee expected to hear from a senior Treasury Department official and a Massachusetts banking regulator on Tuesday. Despite interest in bitcoin, Monday's hearing was attended by only one member of the Senate panel, Sen. Tom Carper (D., Del.), who chairs the committee. Other senators were still en route to Washington after spending the weekend in their home states.

Sen. Carper didn't outline any legislative proposals for digital money and said he was focused on gathering information. "Virtual currencies, perhaps most notably bitcoin, have captured the imagination of some, struck fear among others and confused the heck out of the rest of us, including me," Sen. Carper said.

Bitcoin is a 4-year-old virtual currency that isn't backed by a central bank and can be traded on a number of exchanges or swapped privately. Its price has vaulted to records in recent weeks, fueled by investor views that the virtual currency can have a credible future as an alternative to traditional methods of payment. A number of merchants are accepting bitcoin as payment because the transaction costs associated with the currency are generally lower than those with credit or debit cards.

The skyrocketing prices of bitcoin, along with the use of the currency by both online and brick-and-mortar retailers, have caught Washington's attention. Regulators have warned money-transfer businesses they must follow the same rules as established financial institutions, including complying with anti-money-laundering laws. Authorities have begun meeting with other government agencies to follow new developments, including one led by the Federal Bureau of Investigation that is tracking emerging threats related to the technology. Last month, authorities disclosed they took down Silk Road, an online marketplace for illicit goods that used bitcoin as a form of payment.

Ms. Raman said that while the anonymity of virtual currencies appeals to criminals and poses a challenge for law enforcement, U.S. authorities have "been able to keep pace with that, and we've been able to develop protocols and strategies to address it."

At Thursday's hearing, officials from the U.S. Secret Service, which investigates counterfeit currencies, and the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network detailed successful investigations into criminals using bitcoin or other currencies.

Jennifer Shasky Calvery, director of the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, said virtual currency transactions are still relatively small in value compared with global criminal proceeds. She said she didn't believe the virtual currencies had exposed significant gaps in current law. "We feel like we have a pretty good basis to act," she said. Ms. Shasky will attend Tuesday's Senate Banking Committee hearing.

Sen. Carper said he is "encouraged that maybe it's possible to have the benefits of virtual currencies and to actually be able to not facilitate" criminal activity. However, he also expressed concern that virtual currencies are being used for crimes, including "selling weapons, child pornography and even murder-for-hire services."

If you think the government has just changed it view on competing currencies over the past few years you are being naive.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 14:28 | 4324909 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

In a similar fashion the government will also bring in ln new laws to force everybody to move back into mud huts and abandon electricy for steam power.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:03 | 4325005 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Oh heavens, Bitcoin might be used to facilitate criminal activity?  Really, like the dollar is used only for "God's work"?  I assume a bitcoin can't be rolled up tightly and used as a straw.  Well there is one advantage of bitcoin I hadn't considered.  It's not all covered in germs and fecal matter and boogers etc...   Does the adaption of bitcoin further the smartphone?  Now the smartphone would truly become a wallet.  

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:21 | 4325430 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Thank God the NSA doesn't have access to smart phones. /sarc

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:27 | 4325057 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

The only point is that they are treating bitcoin nicely compared to other currencies that they clearly went after because they thought they were a threat to the dollar.  My conclusion is the government, for whatever reasons that are unknown, is not threatened by bitcoin.  Take from that what you will but don't be naive.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 16:31 | 4325177 CH1
CH1's picture

You do err, treating TPTB as if they were omnipotent gods.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:20 | 4325567 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

No I am not.  I do believe they have large resourses, and smart dedicated people, and those that believe bitcoin is the answer may end up very mistaken  

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/what-do-the-latest-nsa-leaks-mean-for-bitcoin#

If you want to believe TPTB, as you call them, are going to give up thier power to bitcoin peacefully, your crazy.  If you think that there is no way they can seriously effect the bitcoin system and market, your crazy.  I think the fact that it is an internet based system makes it more vunrable not less.  If they do find a way to destroy your wealth, if it is held in bitcoin, you will have had no way to defend it.  One day you are a bitcoin millionair and the next day you have no access to it.  If you have you wealth in gold or silver in your basement at least you have a chance to fight for it, or know who took it.  I'm not against bitcoin, I am against the fraud that is fractional reserve banking and the government that supports it among other things, but I am afraid many that are bitcoin supporters whom actually understand what the real problem is are going to get hurt, and I don't want to see that.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 19:46 | 4325637 CH1
CH1's picture

If you want to believe TPTB, as you call them, are going to give up thier power to bitcoin peacefully...

Not at all. I expect them to fight against it... but defeating BTC is gonna be a LOT harder than grabbing a warehouse in Indiana. :) 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:00 | 4326156 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

A fight is coming. It is expected.  Gov't knows they can't use the same tactics as when they took down the easy target Liberty Dollar.  Sending in the goon squads against a worldwide distributed database just isn't going to work.  How does a Gov't make something intangible illegal while at least pretending to still adhere to individual rights? Thought crime: When math is outlawed, only outlaws will perform math.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:56 | 4326293 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Latest Congressional Report on Bitcoin.  What are your thoughts?  

TL;DR  Existing regulation is a poor fit to apply to Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is currently not a threat to the Federal Reserve but has the potential to become one.

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