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Meet "Smart Restaurant": The Minimum-Wage-Crushing, Burger-Flipping Robot

Tyler Durden's picture


With a seemingly endless line of talking-heads willing to ignore essentially every study that has been undertaken with regard the effects of raising the minimum-wage; and propose what is merely populist vote-getting 'benefits' for the ever-increasing not-1% who benefitted from Ben Bernnake's bubbles - we thought the following burger-flipping robot was a perfect example of unintended consequences for the fast food industry's workers. With humans needing to take breaks, have at least 4 weekend days off per month, and demanding ever-increasing minimum-wage for a job that was never meant to provide a 'living-wage', Momentum Machines - a San Francisco-based robotics company has unveiled the 'Smart Restaurants' machine which is capable of making ~360 'customized' gourmet burgers per hour without the aid of a human. First Jamba Juice, then Applebees, next McDonalds...


As Brian Merchant ( @bcmerchant ) explains (via The Burning Platform blog),

Meet the Robot That Makes 360 Gourmet Burgers Per Hour


No human hand touched this hamburger. It was made entirely by robots




One robot, rather—a 24 square foot gourmet-hamburger-flipping behemoth built by Momentum Machines. It looks like this:


The San Francisco-based robotics company debuted its burger-preparing machine last year. It can whip up hundreds of burgers an hour, take custom orders, and it uses top-shelf ingredients for its inputs. Now Momentum is proposing a chain of ‘smart restaurants’ that eschew human cooks altogether.


Food Beast points us to the Momentum’s official release, where the company blares:


“Fast food doesn’t have to have a negative connotation anymore. With our technology, a restaurant can offer gourmet quality burgers at fast food prices. Our alpha machine replaces all of the hamburger line cooks in a restaurant. It does everything employees can do except better.”


And what might this robotic burger cook of the future do better than the slow, inefficient, wage-sucking line cooks of yore?

  • It slices toppings like tomatoes and pickles only immediately before it places the slice onto your burger, giving you the freshest burger possible.
  • …custom meat grinds for every single customer. Want a patty with 1/3 pork and 2/3 bison ground after you place your order? No problem.
  • It’s more consistent, more sanitary, and can produce ~360 hamburgers per hour.

Furthermore, the “labor savings allow a restaurant to spend approximately twice as much on high quality ingredients and the gourmet cooking techniques make the ingredients taste that much better.” Hear that? Without all those cumbersome human workers, your hamburger will be twice as good. For the same cost.


I don’t doubt this is where we’re heading; robots are making inroads in manufacturing, farming, and they’re doing more domestic work around the house, too. Yeah, robots are taking our jobs, and it’s not a question of if, but when and how. Economists often treat the service industry as some last bastion of downsize-proof labor, but, clearly, robots will make sandwiches and take orders, too.


A future where we can get gourmet burgers, cheaply and on the quick, sounds pretty nice. But that future will also have structural unemployment, unless we start taking major strides to rethink and reform how we work in a world where robots are doing much of the heavy lifting. If we can, with robots flipping all the burgers, and the right social policies, maybe at least a semi-techno-utopia is on the way

Of course, in a world of de minimus capital costs (courtesy of an apparently job-creating-mandated Fed), why wouldn't the McDonalds of the world adopt such a strategy. The outcome, as we explained before, is all too obvious...

What happens after that should be clear to everyone: more unemployment, lower wages for the remaining employees, worse worker morale, but even higher profits to holders of capital. And so on. Because in a world in which technology makes the unqualified worker utterely irrelevant, this is what is known as "progress."


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Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:07 | 4326175 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Can I get that with WD-40?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:13 | 4326189 e-man
e-man's picture

WD-40=robot's way of spitting in your burger.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:25 | 4326225 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The problem with PRO-Gress is that it isn't. Like in-gress, e-gress and di-gress, pro-gress is only for the existing direction of movement, NOT and improvement.

Word-play has us.


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:29 | 4326240 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

We can fully expect a line around the building to buy these burgers by the low information types who shop exclusively at Wal Mart for the low prices and then protest about how much Wal Mart pays their employees.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:40 | 4326263 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

I look foarward to this mechanical contraption paying its fair share.




Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:48 | 4326277 Muppet Pimp
Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:16 | 4326343 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

See the embedded video there about how automation is picking up speed ...

Moreover, there are already computers which are programming themselves.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:57 | 4326411 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

“In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighways.”

Bitchez .

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:39 | 4326494 flacon
flacon's picture

Any and all price-savings for the average man will be gobbled up by the central bankers. That's why 'capitalism' has failed -the central bankers redefined the meaning of the word "capital". 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 04:12 | 4326627 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Capitalism does not exist.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 04:23 | 4326632 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Seriously ZH? This shit is Ted Kaczynski incarnate. Not one reference in the thread (at all!)

Robot overlords? Something crazy like that?




Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:44 | 4326711 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Now all I need is a pry bar big enough to get that sucker in my mouth.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 07:50 | 4326734 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




What we really need is AmnestyTM for workers to do the jobs that our robots refuse to......we need to get right on that.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:18 | 4326757 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Can no one esle see the glaring flaw here?  We want fries with that.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:47 | 4326791 kralizec
kralizec's picture

And super-size that, bitchez!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:48 | 4326793 General Decline
General Decline's picture

McDonald's has had the automated fry machine for years. I used to instlaa them back in the 90's. the technology needed to make robot fries appears to be a lot simpler than the burger thing.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:44 | 4326788 PT
PT's picture

Here we go again, "If only those horses weren't so slow and lazy, always wanting rest breaks and hay.  Why, if they would only work harder and faster then they never would have been replaced by the motor car".

Here, let me have a try:  
"If only those minimum wage workers worked for even less.  They could get a job selling chocolates and soft drinks on street corners instead of being replaced by vending machines."

"If only the unemployed didn't want so much money.  They could all be self-employed panning for gold in their own back yards ... after they bought a back yard because they were soooooo rich because they worked for even less money."
"Do you realize how many jobs we could create if we eliminated one haul-pack and replaced it with cheap workers carrying iron ore in their backpacks?  And then if only they would swim to China, we could save on ships and create sooooooooo many jawbs!"

"If only builders weren't so greedy, they could be employed for the next year or two building me a mansion."  
"If only engineers, architects and physics professors didn't charge so much, I'd hire a couple to tutor me and a few dozen more to build some really cool stuff.  We'd already have personal flying machines and free energy 'cos that's what I'd pay them to figure out how to build.  Face it,  no way could I do worse than what we already have.  Everyone else has already proven that all they spend their excess money on is hookers and blow.  Fucking unimaginative stupid heaps of shit!"

How about, "I don't give a fuck about jobs.  I want PRODUCTION!"

And by the way, the robots are already here.  Now where is my four hour working week?


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:40 | 4326884 CH1
CH1's picture

Peaceful technology is to be welcomed.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 07:15 | 4326722 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> This shit is Ted Kaczynski incarnate.

And there's a problem with that?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 07:53 | 4326736 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I don't have a problem with people dropping out and blowing up people....unless it's me of course.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:03 | 4327226 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Only if they blow up the right people. Which never seems to happen.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:39 | 4326495 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

How about they invent a robotic Smart President? Would be a drastic improvement and we'd save salary, secret service, and multi-million dollar vacation expenses to boot.

Then they can move on to a Smart Attorney General.

The possibilities are endless.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:44 | 4326504 darteaus
darteaus's picture

They already got dat! It does what it's told: Destroy the US!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:56 | 4326511 Popo
Popo's picture

Well... first off this isn't a robot.  

Secondly... there are a whole lot of separate integrated automated systems at work here.  And needless to say... a whole lot of moving parts.

When it works, it will no doubt be awesome.   When it doesn't work... not so much.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:22 | 4326536 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

When it doesn't work, I'm sure it qualifies for an EBT card like rest of us.

If you read the fine print, it also must purchase an Obamacare policy.

Even a smart robot won't be able to figure it out...

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:26 | 4326545 Four chan
Four chan's picture

burned bun and upside down, already so far ahead of macdonalds.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 05:57 | 4326686 Lore
Lore's picture

+33D for that outstanding avatar.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 11:07 | 4327077 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Speaking of supersize, that is one avatar I wish that I had that option on.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 05:49 | 4326676 starfcker
starfcker's picture

on three, let's all focus on automation, so we don't focus on outsourcing. sheep

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:53 | 4326800 PT
PT's picture

+1000 to you Mr starfcker.

... and pay no attention to those over-inflated real estate prices.  Can't a bankster make a dishonest living anymore?

Funny thing is, they write the article as if automation is a bad thing.  Fucking idiots.  Like I said above, I want production, not jobs.  What happened to the robots and the four hour working week???

Then I remembered, I hear Obama has got the hours down to 29 ... 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:42 | 4326502 darteaus
darteaus's picture

I see the same thing, but through my Nikon M-223 scope just as I'm about to squeeze off a shot.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:07 | 4326320 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

You didn't build that.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:31 | 4326376 onelight
onelight's picture

I can haz cheezburger?

No, you are the burger..

Wait till someone feeds a cat into that machine..

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:50 | 4326377 onelight
onelight's picture

LolCat: I can haz cheezburger?

Robotvoice: No, you are the burger..

Wait till someone feeds a cat into that machine..

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:57 | 4326513 upWising
upWising's picture

If they pay as much attention to detail in building this contraption as they did in their publicity, there will be a quick case of buyer's remorse as it will quickly go on the fritz:

Look carefully at the top line...."Here is the INFORMATOIN on..."

What the FUCK is is like a Bit COIN?  

And when the machine breaks down because it gets wet, gets hot, or just has "issues" (technology never has "problems," only "issues"), will the minimum wage worker who is left be able to "interface" to "facilitate a resolution of the issue?"  Or will it take three days to get a technician out to repair the "labour saving device"?

I wonder on a daily basis how much labour my "labour-saving device" really saves me.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:11 | 4326827 PT
PT's picture

I love automation.  See my comments above.  But I'm wondering how long it'll be before someone builds an automatic burger flipping robot that also buys SUVs, ipods and 52 inch flatscreen TVs.

I've said before that capitalism is two blokes each with a knife to the other's throat:  "I couldn't possibly bleed!  My knife is on his throat, not mine." 

Hang on, forget all that, I'm wrong.  The  "SUV, ipod and 52 inch flatscreen TV" - buying robot is already here and it goes by the official name of "HFT algo".  The advantages of this particular automated customer is that you save an absolute shitload of money on capital expenditure - no factories, no production, no deliveries, no refunds, no revenue to tax ... it just goes straight to the heart of the matter and pumps up your capital gains.

Something like that. 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:29 | 4326372 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I don't know why anyone goes out to buy a fast food burger anyway. With just a little bit of effort anyone can make a stellar burger than no machine could match. Americans are just lazy and their taste buds are less discriminating than in the past. You'd think with all this unemployment people would be rediscovering the beauty of the home cooked meal. Sometimes I think we're living in the movie Wall-e.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:33 | 4326604 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Amen to that!  People don't realize how quick and easy it is to prepare food (including burgers) at home for minimal cost and better nutrition.  And you begin to notice that natural flavor has returned to your food, like it used to be.  I go so far as to grind the beef myself.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:13 | 4327253 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I buy chuck or siroin roasts when they are on sale and have the butcher grind them for me. The meat from large primals is so much better than the ground beef in a tube.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:04 | 4326438 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

If the opposite of "pro" is "con", then the opposite of Progress, is...

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:16 | 4326839 PT
PT's picture

... and the opposite of constitution is ...

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:27 | 4326232 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

For the love of gawd Tyler needs to stop this inane raising minimum wage / more automation argument.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:36 | 4326253 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Do you have a problem with reality?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:05 | 4326310 TDoS
TDoS's picture

You're right, people should be thankful to their corporate overlords for shit fifty an hour. 

This just in, a San Francisco robotics company just invented a robot that sits in your mom's basement posting zerohedge comments all day.

"Gold bitchez!" "Ron Paul 20--" "Climate Change is a hoax!" "Gold bitchez!" "Obummer is a communist!" "The poor should toil endlessly for whatever the controllers of capital demand!" 

You're all fired.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:20 | 4326359 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

You can't fire me - I quit six years ago.

But I'm happy to come back and build these machines after your plan implodes.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:21 | 4326853 PT
PT's picture

They crap on about automation as if it is a bad thing.  Do you have a car?  A bicycle?  Or would you prefer to pay someone to give you a piggyback?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:29 | 4326861 PT
PT's picture

How about a big headline, "MINIMUM WAGE INCREASES SPUR AUTOMATION R&D!!!!!"





Did I? 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:05 | 4326312 The Capitalist ...
The Capitalist Review's picture

If you like scooping fries all day, you can keep scooping fries all day.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:13 | 4326336 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

People seem to have misunderstood my comment, I'm all for automation.

All through history automation has been a constant and makes things better for everyone.

What I have issue with is the very specific argument being puhed these days that a higher minimum wage is forcing automation, totally idiotic.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:41 | 4326400 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

You are right, it's not minimum wage.

It's minimum wage, Oblundercare, and dozens of other costs imposed by government.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:45 | 4326410 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I guess those were the same ingredients at work during the industrial revolution?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:52 | 4326426 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Progress is about producing more at a lower cost.

Government is about producing less at a higher cost.

Government is not needed, only wanted.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:11 | 4326449 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Progress is about producing more at a lower cost."

You'd need to define 'cost' for this statement to have any meaning.

I know you're a one note poster totally fixated with .gov so not much point in attempting a rational discussion, but I'd like to underline my point that automation is inevitable and welcome.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:50 | 4326509 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Look fool, governments of the world killed 400 million people in the 20th century. That why I think it should not exist.

What I think of you as one of the dumbasses that want government is that you are either insane, incredibly stupid, or you are not human.

Which do you plead?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:17 | 4326597 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Your comments have nothing to do with what I was talking about, but rant on.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:21 | 4326598 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:22 | 4326599 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:42 | 4326608 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Incorrect, try again!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:49 | 4326419 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Automation is extremely expensive, at least in a clinical lab. R&D costs are high as well as having to pass FDA and other regulatory requirements. Fully automated labs have become a reality now and 10 years ago I would have claimed it an impossibility. I am not sure if I won't be fully replaced before my retirement. Rising wages definitely influence this because the cost per sample over time will decrease with instrumentation. There is a possibility for employment for technical services keeping the instrument functioning but this will require fewer people.

What troubles me is the great push for training microbiologists and assistants when technology will eliminate the need for these people. Considering it costs an individual a 4 year degree plus an internship that costs 20k to become a clinical microbiologist where I live, this is a terrible fraud.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:18 | 4326460 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

A friend of mine is a microbiologist switching fields partially for this reason.

It's a reality that is totally separate to the wage argument though - more comfortable for people to look at it through the prism of labour costs because the truth is at odds with the supposed fundamentals of western society.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 04:25 | 4326637 2¢Wurth
2¢Wurth's picture

Relax.  They will build a microbiologist into the burger flipping machine.  Make sure it discriminates between cat and beef, flesh-eating bacteria and the kind that makes you lose your lunch when you eat a human prepared hamburger.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:25 | 4326764 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Mass spectrometry will be applied at the burger level in version II of the burgermatic.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:44 | 4326610 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Don't worry. Robots work like shit when it has to work with non uniform products.

Let it run for 1 hour and the machine will be burning, jammed up with food and the heat it produces will be a perfect germ factory.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:01 | 4326688 starfcker
starfcker's picture

when i was a twenty something bartender, we had enormous (and seriously expensive) Taylor machines that made frozen drinks. we never used them because they were so hard to keep clean. that burger gizmo is a joke. nightmare to keep clean with that many functions. how long do you think it will work before something jams or breaks down. tomatos aren't exactly uniform in all seasons. technology is happening. it will continue. but it's no match for millions of chinese slave laborers.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:19 | 4327278 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Dear Miffed - I always smile when I see that you've commented, knowing that I am in for a treat. Today is no exception. I think you can extend your concern to any job/profession that requires collecting and analyzing data. Those jobs will disappear faster than a fat New Jersey governor in a shit storm.

However, may I suggest that your skills have a wide range of applications. How about designing a food additive that causes instant severe cramps when anger flares. Or an aerosolized compound that causes people to say exactly what is on their minds. Maybe something that can be added to wines costing more than $50 that causes the drinker to immediately give all thair money to the first homeless person they see. Or maybe something that could be distributed through food banks that causes instant homicidal rage against anyone wearing a suit or driving a Mercedes.

Creative destruction can be our friend.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:06 | 4333104 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

American spirit, you've got me thinking and that can be a dangerous thing. I'm sure Mr miffed must feel a shudder about now. I've always been tempted to use my inquisitive mind in more creative ways then it is currently engaged.

Just recently I turned down an absolutely perfect job for me being a field/ technical sales person for a lab instrumentation company we use and I
highly respect. They were trying to recruit me because of my vast experience and affability. Five years ago I would have taken it in a heart beat. However, with Obamacare now threatening equipment manufacturers I just can't risk it. I'm not sure if I'd have a job to return to if I got laid off. At least not one with benefits.

Your suggestions certainly trump any of my musings for my future. My husband calls me a natural disrupter, someone that refuses to stay within the lines and takes advantage of holes in the system. He considers the quality a great asset and has a few in his projects claiming they strengthen products ( too many cause the project to slip deadlines though). My employer doesn't find it useful at all and I am constantly upbraided for pushing rules. May be some day I will be free to pursue my true calling and will give you credit for your inspirations.

Thank you for your kind words


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:16 | 4326834 The Capitalist ...
The Capitalist Review's picture


Can I call you Jimbo?

This is a complete misunderstanding of the structure of production. Automation becomes more viable in a switch from labor intensive to capital intensive work when the discounted marginal revenue product of one outpaces the other.

Again, this doesn't happen over night, as Walter Block has pointed out time and time again, the manual elevator operator did not disappear 2 days after raising the minimum wage, but over time automation became more productive despite its higher upfront cost due to discounted MRP.

Finally, structural unemployment occurs in all industries where technological advances supplant the previous manual technology. However, those that are willing to learn new skills can adjust as new opportunities open in the higher order goods sector of creating parts and operating the new mechanized mode of production.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 08:25 | 4330191 o2sd
o2sd's picture

Higher wages period, are spurring automation. However, there are still ways for some people to move further up the value chain by improving their skills in areas that robots are very poor at, and will be for some time to come. That is, thinking and problem solving. If your job consists of repetitive tasks, no matter how highly skilled those tasks are, it will be replaced by a robot. But if your job involves solving one problem after another, then you will continue to be employed, but you will need to compete with a global supply of people who can also solve problems.

The problem with people who work in minimum wage jobs is twofold then. 1. Their job will be replaced by a robot and 2. They don't have the education or training to move higher up the value chain. Therefore, since they are doubly screwed, the only way they can compete with a robot for their existing job is on PRICE, hence the connection between minimum wage and automation. The transition to automation for minimum wage jobs is much more price sensitive if it is easier to program the robot to do their job.

However the Randiots that post here think it is ideological.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 15:54 | 4331418 jukin
jukin's picture

One of the biggest costs for business is labor. Clearly you have not run a business. There are tens of other costs that go up by percentage when wages are increased. These are FICA, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, Workers Compensation,... That adds up to 17-117% dependent on what the employee does. So yeah it hurts the bottom line. Eventually a business hits the equivelent of the Laffer curve on the it can charge for product or service and the business fails.

Also the biggest hassle in business is employees. SO automation does two great htings for emplooyers; it cost them less to deliver a higher quality and more consistent product along with lowering costs. PLUS it adds hours to their productive time by taking the employee hassles and associated HR costs.

The only question is when the capital costs justify the investment. Higher minimum wage puses that proce point to automation. Cheap money from the Obama Regime pushes that point to automation. It is pretty simple.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:11 | 4326331 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

The reality is this robot will not take pics of itself sticking its dick on a hamburger bun before serving it, and then posting it to instagram.  And it always washes its hands after it takes a pee.

Robots FTW, anyday, before you average disgusting human.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:44 | 4326406 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If it charred my buns like that, I wouldn't be very pleased with it.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:05 | 4326439 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

Hell, now I'm confused. So is the clam chowder safe again or isn't it?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:48 | 4326795 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Lobster Bisque AND Clam Chowder are no-no's still.

Thank the robot repair guy, ingredient filler- upper guy & collect-the-money guy.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:44 | 4326609 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Those were poppy seeds, ya ignoramus!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:20 | 4326700 Eurodollar
Eurodollar's picture

Valid points! However, in our consumption driven western world; if we replace the burger flippers, the cleaners, people working in various service positions. What shall we do with the drop in demand? It must be quite considerable.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:38 | 4326880 PT
PT's picture

I posted further up about a robot that buys SUVs and ipods.

You're welcome.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:31 | 4326237 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Replace all government workers (as of now, 1 out of every 5.5 full time employees in the U.S. Workforce is a taxpayer teat suckler of local, state or federal government) with these robots.

Given the inefficiency and non-importance of what those government "workers" do, one of these machines can probably replace entire departments.

Even if 1/3 of government "workers" are replaced - BOOM! - that's a cool 1.3 trillion in annual savings for U.S. Workers not employed by

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:31 | 4326379 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Plus, there is bound to be a multiplier effect once those .gov "workers" no longer hamstring the economy.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:46 | 4326414 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

You wouldn't need a fancy robot like that.

A department store dummy would do.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:46 | 4326611 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So long as we can move papers from the in-basket to the out-basket, we will take over the World! (Say baby, wanna kill all humans?)

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:08 | 4326442 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Replacing humans in government with automatons would produce better results. At least the rules could be coded to apply equally.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 14:40 | 4327829 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Then we could get robocops to enforce them equally, even on our overlords.  Watch how quickly the rules get repealed </sarc>

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:09 | 4326443 NIHILIST CIPHER

Now if they can come up with a robot president and CONgress critter robots that are not anti-merikan, that would be progress.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:46 | 4326612 giggler321
giggler321's picture

Bite my shiny metal arse

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 05:41 | 4326671 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Luddites revolt!!!  Throw your plastic shoes (sabot)  into the machines!  (Thus the word sabotage)

And have you mook-tards also heard of these diabolically evil machines called... COMPUTERS which have replaced millions of human workers for decades!!?

It must be stopped before the MACHINES achieve consciousness and take over the world!

Planes, trains and automobiles will crash themselves to kill their passengers!  Elevators will stop between floors to starve their riders!

Escalators will run backwards!  ATM machines will mug you!  Cellphones will zap you and explode their Li-ion batteries!

And you women don't even want to know what horrible deeds your sex toys will do to you too!

Paranoid??  Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean all your machines and devices aren't out to get you!


BTW..  The polymers used in synthetic motor oils are the primary ingredient  in  "food grade" lubricants used on these machines, NOT WD-40 !



Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:49 | 4326282 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Hate to tell you guys I told so. In the year 5555
Your arms hangin' limp at your sides
Your legs got nothin' to do
Some machine's doin' that for you

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:20 | 4326352 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Even Frito will have a batin' machine.

"Go away! Batin'..."

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 14:48 | 4327856 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

Ain't gonna need to tell no truth, tell no lies.

Everything you think and say is in the pill you took today.

Ain't gonna need no husband, need no wifes; you pick your sons, pick your daughter too from the bottom of long glass tube.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:25 | 4326601 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

What is the lead time on spare parts?

Are spare parts available?

Are the parts user serviceable?

Are service manuals included or available?

How much is tech support, is it US sourced?

What is the track record of up time vs. down time in a real world environment?

Then again, I'll let the genius CEO's / bean counters figure this one out........



Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:41 | 4326887 PT
PT's picture

Burger flippers:  Relax.  As long as these machines run on Windows 8, your jobs are safe.  You might even get paid a bonus to return to work.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:40 | 4326783 barroter
barroter's picture

Back label of WD 40 I've seen in restaurants: "Safe for foor preparation surfaces."  \

It's aids in digestion!


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:51 | 4326794 de3de8
de3de8's picture

Just means the free s$&t train will get longer

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 09:45 | 4326896 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Someday-maybe-the Ivy League whizkid federale types will figure out you can have your NSA/Taxes/Regulation-or you can have JOBS

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:10 | 4326177 H H Henry P P P...
H H Henry P P P Paulson's picture

I don't need a robot to put my meat between two buns... jus need to spit outta lil game iz all.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:13 | 4326188 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Or dinner and a movie.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:23 | 4326365 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yes but will this robot beat your meat?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:40 | 4326396 EastCoast90
EastCoast90's picture

They have that already.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:12 | 4326183 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

It's just a matter of time. I have a long history in restaurants. I'm out now. All of these jobs and many other low skilled ones will be lost to automation. Glad I'm out.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:14 | 4326454 suteibu
suteibu's picture

To be sure, the robotics company is lobbying for a $15.00/h minimum wage.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:51 | 4326571 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I have a long history in restaurants"

How long? Ever hear of the Automat restaurant? It's over 100 yrs old. 

Horn & Hardart Automats

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:12 | 4326184 adeptish
adeptish's picture

Boycott robotics, an idea whose time has come.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:51 | 4326615 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

We should get rid of computers too, those things ruined everything

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:12 | 4326185 Redneck Hippy
Redneck Hippy's picture

Once everybody has been replaced by robots, who can afford to buy the burgers?

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:17 | 4326202 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Literally everyone.

People forget that jobs are not an end in and of themselves.  You work to live, rather than live to work.  It is hard to see in this central banking environment where everyone is pushed to their absolute limit until something or many things break, but that is the way things are.  Money isn't the end-all be-all.  The goods are.  If the goods can be produced at zero marginal cost, their price will rapidly fall to zero.  This is post scarcity, and is the final result of free market capitalism, despite capitalist's endemic short sitghtedness which doesn't allow them to see the ends, and the socialist's far sightedness which allows them to see the ends, but the means are so screwed up they will never acheive them.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:30 | 4326241 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

PRECISELY. Hallelujah. Thank GOD someone gets it. Praise the Lord Jesus, there is indeed some home after all.

Or as some snark might suggest, the socialists are so lazy, they're allowing the capitalists to build it for them.


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:39 | 4326260 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

The going fear in the 70s was that when computers are widely implemented, no one would have a job.  I'm pretty sure things didn't work out that way.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:01 | 4326305 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

When the plow was invented, a lot of farmers lost jobs, but found other ways of being productive. When the mechanized combine was invented, even more farmers lost jobs, but found other ways of being productive.

Losing one's job does not equate to getting fat and lazy. It means, you're free to pursue those shitty curiosities that have been plaguing you since childhood. It means, you have an oppurtinity to increase the world's wisdom.

Anyway, I can't reveal all of my secrets in one post, so I'll go lurk until the next expose is presented... flipping burgers indeed.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:32 | 4326382 Anybody
Anybody's picture

"but found other ways of being productive"


Yes, thay stopped being farmers. Right now with automation and offshoring, the only jobs left will be those that cannot be offshored or automated (for now). Nurse, surgeon, cop, truck driver. All the rest can apply at MacDonalds.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:12 | 4326453 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I hate to tell you this but many of the nurses and Drs ( especially hospitalists) I interact with today are immigrants mostly from India and Africa. Sometimes their accents are so pronounced I have to get the charge nurse to take a critical report ( usually American). I can't understand why this is considering the number of Americans looking for jobs. Unless they are accepting dirt pay. I guess Drs will never worry about being replaced by machines though I've seen a few reel in disgust when forced to follow rigid diagnostic trees supposedly under the guise of cost containment.


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:41 | 4326259 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

There's a great scene in Iron Man 2 (which has some very interesting libertarian themes) where Tony Stark watches a film of his father envisioning a world free of hunger and unnecessary human labors.  He felt his technological and business achievements could bring it about.  The so called "capitalists" we have are in truth Oligarchal Collectivists whose only goal is power.  A world of trancendance and human prosperity doesn't interest them.  They would rather a dystopia that left them with near nothing as long as they choose lord over the fellow man.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:18 | 4326461 NIHILIST CIPHER

Nihilist Z              Nihilist C here,  try to catch a flick called "Sleep Dealer" for a real look into the future of workers on this here planet. This film was funded by the Rockefeller foundation so you know it's gonna be good.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:43 | 4326266 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

You can't be serious...
A couple of years back I was watching an internet documentary on robotics and brain research... Some of the researchers I recognized, others were new to me. On the one hand, there was the typical advertisement for the grand new future... along the line of your fantasy. along with this was the bizarre idea that man would blend with machines to form some kind of hybrid. One fellow suggested he had always wanted to see in the infrared range... Wouldn't anyone? He asked... Thank you, but the visible spectrum is quite sufficient for me... At one point a robotics expert clapped his hands together like a schoolboy, and with a gleeful grin proclaimed that humankind would become irrelevant. Irrelevant to what??

I thought human beings were the point. Seems they are only a means. And when they lose the race to machines, rather, when they lose the race, their time will be done. At least if the master race has anything to say about it.

Do you seriously think you will be welcome in that world?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:01 | 4326306 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Que Dick Cheney, the man who lived for months with out a pulse. Transhumanism is here and it is going to go into the truly bizarro world quickly. 20 years from now. humans wont be, unless something changes drastically.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:26 | 4326476 NIHILIST CIPHER

GOOD       Whoever down arrowed you needs to get a clue. TPTB wants all humans to be 60% robot in the future.............can you say The Borg? You are right on in your comment.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 11:53 | 4327198 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Down arrowed by those that hope, wish and pray I am wrong. Mostly far right republicans that think another Bush will fix things.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:04 | 4326309 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Was your family eradicated when the wheel / hammer / pencil / paper / abacus / printing press / telescope / gear / spring / etc etc etc were invented? On what planet has your family been hiding?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:46 | 4326413 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

Oh my god... You are right! This new playground is being taylor made just for you, by the same altruistic creatures that brought you the Fed... Also served up for your benefit.

Guess all that hiding out must have clouded my thinking.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:44 | 4326501 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

When Texas Instruments unveiled the calculator, it drove my ancestors from the elite to middle class in the stroke of a key.

You see, my forebearers were professional Abacus-ists.

Thankfully, we had the foresight to invest in plastics based on sage advice found in a movie titled "The Graduate."

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:52 | 4326616 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yes, "Computer" used to be a job description.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:27 | 4326369 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Of course.  We'll either be welcome, or dead.  There is no in between where the intelligence explosion is concerned.  You are made of atoms, and if it doesn't specifically go against the master AI's value function, your atoms will be harvested and put to more efficient use.

Of course, if the AI is designed to fulfill human values, then boy are you in for a treat.  A lifetime that extends at least a million times longer than the lifespan of the universe (thanks to the speedup effect of light based simulated neurons vs electrochemical biological ones) in a heaven tailored to your own values.  The Matrix would have been great if the people knew they were in a simulation and thus were allowed to do anything they wanted.  Transitioning to become programs would have helped too, since those were implicitly immortal.

Meanwhile, outside the "matrix", stars are lifted to form optimized fusion cells to extend the heat death of the universe out as far as possible while a method for evading near-infinite entropy is devised.

"Let there be light!"

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:49 | 4326420 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Fuck you mutherfocker Tmos, that is some cool techno-philosophical writing. 

Does your pacemaker's MTBF extend to infinity and beyond? ;-)


Sun, 01/12/2014 - 23:51 | 4326284 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Production costs will fall to zero? Really?


What's next? Perpetual motion?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:05 | 4326314 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

You have any idea how much food is produced daily by machinery and what little it costs in comparison if someone had to touch each and every piece of the process?


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 11:29 | 4327121 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

I own a farm, so I would hope to have some idea... retired from teaching chemistry, so I must profess to have had a love for the sciences. But you must wake up my friend and see where this is taking us, and who has grabbed control of the reigns...

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:16 | 4326342 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"Free" energy is a component of post scarcity, yes.  Thorium is a suitable source for such energy.  There will likely be others, but thorium is enough for a long while.

Note your shortsightedness which I talked about above.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:43 | 4326568 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

repeal gravity and pigs can fly.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:08 | 4326322 TDoS
TDoS's picture

Post scarcity...except for the cattle in burger, or the corn that fed them, or the fuel that grew the corn, or the energy that runs the robot.

Let them eat burgers. 

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:18 | 4326351 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You don't quite get it, do you?  With ALL human labor replaced by machines, the price of every component in the supply chain falls to zero.

Thorium is so cheap it's practically free.  Nevermind other game changing energy technologies.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:24 | 4326363 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Beef will grow in gigantic test tubes attached to electrolyte-fed plants.

A sausage tree in every yard!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:36 | 4326390 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Beef and all components will be 3d printed on site for the absolute freshness.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:39 | 4326395 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

We finally have a winner: BRAWNDO!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:37 | 4326493 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Won't they just substitute Soylent Green?

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:54 | 4326620 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Mmm, Brawndo®!

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:57 | 4326623 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Naw... Not in our system.

In our system "product sustainability is INVERSE to economic growth."

Say that again class.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:22 | 4326465 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Like harvesting electrons from photosynthesis?

Nature has given us lots of presents we have yet to open.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:36 | 4326489 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Unobtanium is still expensive though.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 00:10 | 4326326 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"If the goods can be produced at zero marginal cost, their price will rapidly fall to zero."

Not sure how you could, but you forgot Control.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:36 | 4326487 darteaus
darteaus's picture

"Approach" zero.  Price will not "rapidly fall to zero" because costs won't be zero.  Only the government ever sets the "price" of something at zero, because they have taxpayers and QE covering the costs.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 01:17 | 4326459 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Exactly Tmos. If a machine can plant, pick, and julienne my zuchinni, how much money would I really need?

Not only that, somebody has to biuld and maintain the machines. Somebody has to build the devices, and networks, which will manage the machines. Somebody has to program the machines. Finally, machines are infinitely more easily replaced, than human life/limb, if they happen to step into harm's way.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 04:24 | 4326636 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Still need someone to cook the fries.  

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:32 | 4326771 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Sort of. Far fewer people hours are needed to design/ manufacture systems... but would you rather not be involved in a society which was technologically replacing meaningless labor with technical labor? I mean, would you rather a world of burger flippers or scientists / mathematicians / machinists? Not only does it take much less people hours to create the system, but we've already created the machines that create the machines, so we would engineer the robots / assembly lines to create the mechanized future.

There is a huge difference between making machines that enhance our ability to efficiently extract more productive capacity from the world, vs machines that enhance our ability to efficiently extract more productive value from the world. One produces goods, the other destroys civilizations. We have the latter, some of us are trying to get us to recognize the problem so we can shift gears and work on the former.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 02:30 | 4326552 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Marginal cost may trend asymptotically towards zero, but never reach it and that is given variable costs (energy is most of all) do not rise dramatically through production cycle. Having said that, cost per unit can be achieved sufficient to outprice biggest labour pool out there - the one in Asia.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 10:36 | 4326994 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It doesn't have to reach zero, it just has to get close enough that it isn't worth it to collect the money.  If a burger costs 1/1000 of a cent, why bother collecting money for them?  Put out a tip jar for the humans involved in keeping it running instead.  Or display some human-made crafts for sale.  Or advertise for premium or rare goods.

Post scarcity already exists on the internet.  Look to the business models there to get an idea of where we will turn when it reaches the physical world.

Note that people already don't bother collecting money for ketchup packets, napkins, grocery bags, etc, even though they all cost money.  They are just so cheap that it isn't worth it, and they simply fold those costs into the costs of what they are selling.  Such a fast food joint might not even wind up being a fast food joint, but a free concession stand at a craft mall.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 03:24 | 4326579 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Been speaking, and arguing, with many of you on this subject for YEARS. Glad to see SCARCITY finally understood... And well explained and examined within this forum.

We are seeing the beginning of the end of MONETARISM... And yes, for those religious bitchez out there that means both CAPITALISM and SOCIALISM and just about every other ism we've been FORCED to choose.

The paradigm shift begins with the conflict, and ultimate end game, between technology and labor.

Scarcity and these now ancient labor/wage/consumption/profit models that enable it are so endangered that technology is being SUPPRESSED on behalf of the wage slave/human labor necessary to "support" the consumption end of the system. How long are we to subsidize the consumption end of the economic equation just to keep this outdated and obsolete labor model intact? Are we ALL to be scientists and technicians? And how many of those will we need anyway? Even now a few humans and smart machines can feed thousands, millions.

The ONLY reason ANY of us has a job, is because it hasn't been automated YET. And what then? Technology will be the integral part of the "economic" equation of the future. Human labor will be the "remember when."

A robot doesn't require incentive. It is not a consumer. It doesn't require laws governing "FAIRNESS." It doesn't require the services, the protection...

It doesn't care about abundance or scarcity, capitalism or socialism.

IT DOESN'T DRIVE AN SUV 60 miles to work.

The Models are broken.

In any "for profit" system, scarcity is the game. And the more scarce, the better. And if its not scarce, it will be manufactured as so. That's why free and abundant energy can never exist, there's no money in a cure, and waste is a constant. Because its profitable. Big pharma, AND TMosely, will tell you why we still fight plaque.

Capitalism, socialism, all the rest of your bullshitisms, will be failed experiments of the past.

Scarcity is a constant in a profit system, its an ALWAYS... No matter the abundance of the product or resource.

Whether Farm subsidies / mandatory crop reduction/destruction, Planned obsolescence of products. Privatization of water. Rare mineral destruction (diamonds). "Peak oil".. a phrase we'd hear regardless of its abundance. Patents alone produce and affect scarcity. The list goes on and on...

Much of the "scarcity" (to include perceived scarcity) we're in competition for within our economic model is manufactured... for profit.

There will be no AFFORD. It will be can we or can't we. It will be "do we have the resources", not do we have the money. Profit systems use technology to GMO seeds to NOT reproduce... Rather than produce hundreds if not thousands of seeds. It's not that we can't do this, it's that it isn't profitable.

Profit systems are inherently INEFFICIENT, not efficient. Even waste is profitable.

Time to move from a scarcity based profit system to one based SOLELY on abundance. We should begin to plan societies ridding ourselves of the need for human labor. These things can be done. We don't need money, banks, accountants, scalpers, trash collectors, union workers... Wage slaves.

Humans may finally begin to realize what TRULY is human nature rather than learned behaviors of the past.

And for those of you insisting on remaining an Easter Islander remember this... Your problem isn't a lack of trees. Your problem is the model that made cutting the last one down "WORTH the BOOST."

It has become so fucking bad that we DISCOURAGE our best and brightest from having kids. We tell her to postpone marriage and pregnancy cuz we have artificial shit for that. You can get a LOAN for it. You may have ONE kid... Cuz your CAREER. She'll do it when she's 40. We INCENTIVIZE the WEAKEST of our species to have many, MANY kids. We welcome this shit. We give birth to subsidized ignorant consumers in mass... Cuz the answer to EVERY FUCKING PROBLEM is GROWTH. Growth has become the remedy for every problem.

Fuck changing the model. Just grOW our way out. The model says, so we do... Like the good little bitchez we are.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 08:58 | 4326811 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

There is a lot to digest in this post, and I mean that in a good way.

This isn't a long post; it's actually short & packed with compressed, thought provoking statements.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 10:39 | 4326857 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Brilliant post! It's time for the human race to evolve from angry teenagers into consenting adults - before we devolve [further] into a mindless idiocracy. It's conversations like this that need to be taken seriously.

I first heard this concept expressed - by a national leader, no less - way back in 1972. However, the fundamental problem to be addressed is WHO will decide "Do we have the resources?". Will it be a global politburo (ie. the NWO), or can it be decided at a personal, local or national level (leaving room for innovation, cultural preferences, and competitiive alternatives)?

However, not all resources can be created, or replaced, by robots.

Mon, 01/13/2014 - 15:04 | 4327911 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Tickhound, It feels like I've met a kindred spirit. Pleased to make your acquaintance. I could not agree more with what you wrote. I've been arguing much the same most of my life.  Thanks for taking the time to post that. I know it can be tiresome to have to keep repeating it, but in the end, the future will hopefully be a better world for it.


Mon, 01/13/2014 - 06:18 | 4326697 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

" If the goods can be produced at zero marginal cost, their price will rapidly fall to zero."

I think you forget about the need to ncrease profits beyond all else. Walmart made $16B in profit last year - I don't see their prices continue to dropbut I do see their profits increase.

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