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Guest Post: Europe’s Future: Inflation And Wealth Taxes

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by David Howden via the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

Tax burdens are so high that it might not be possible to pay off the high levels of indebtedness in most of the Western world. At least, that is the conclusion of a new IMF paper from Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff.

Reinhart and Rogoff gained recent fame for their book “This Time It’s Different”, in which they argued that high levels of public debt have historically been associated with reduced growth opportunities.

As they now note, “The size of the problem suggests that restructurings will be needed, for example, in the periphery of Europe, far beyond anything discussed in public to this point.” Up to this point in the Eurocrisis the primary tools used to rescue profligate countries have included increased taxes, EU and IMF bailouts, and haircuts on government debt.

These bailouts have largely exacerbated the debt problems that existed five short years ago. Indeed, as Reinhart and Rogoff well note, the once fiscally sound North of Europe is now increasingly unable to continue shouldering the debts of its Southern neighbours.

 

General government debt (% GDP) Source: Eurostat (2012)

General government debt (% GDP)
Source: Eurostat (2012)

Six European countries currently have a government debt to GDP ratio – a metric popularlised by Reinhart and Rogoff to signal reduced growth prospects – of over 90%. Countries that were relatively debt-free just five short years ago are now encumbered by the debt repayments necessitated by bailouts. Ireland is a case in point – as recently as 2007 its government debt to GDP ratio was below 25%. Six years later that figure stands north of 120%! “Fiscally secure” Scandinavia should keep in mind that fortunes can change quickly, as happened to the luck of the Irish.

The debt crisis to date has been mitigated in large part by tax increases and transfers from the wealthy “core” of Europe to the periphery. The problem with tax increases is that they cannot continue unabated.

Total government tax revenue (% GDP) Source: Eurostat (2012)

Total government tax revenue (% GDP)
Source: Eurostat (2012)

Already in Europe there are seven countries where tax revenues are greater than 48% of GDP. There once was a time when only Scandinavia was chided for its high tax regimes and large public sectors. Today both Austria and France have more than half of their economies involved in the public sector and financed through taxes. (Note also that as they both run government budget deficits the actual size of their governments is greater yet.)

With high unemployment in Europe (and especially in its periphery), governments cannot raise much revenue by raising taxes – who would pay it? With already high levels of debt it is questionable how much revenue can be raised by further debt issuances, at least without increasing interest rates and imperiling already fragile government finances with higher interest charges.

Instead, Reinhart and Rogoff see two facts of life for Europe’s future: financial repression through higher inflation rates and taxes levied on savings and wealth. This time is no different than other cases of highly indebted countries in Europe’s history – just look to the post-War examples as similar cases in point. Don’t say you haven’t been warned.

 

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Tue, 01/14/2014 - 15:57 | 4331412 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

It must be another day at ZH to help prop up the USD and GBP by jawboning down the EUR. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Dollar_Index

    Euro (EUR), 57.6% weight
    Japanese yen (JPY) 13.6% weight
    Pound sterling (GBP), 11.9% weight
    Canadian dollar (CAD), 9.1% weight
    Swedish krona (SEK), 4.2% weight and
    Swiss franc (CHF) 3.6% weight

I just love watching synchronized diving.

Germany, like Japan, are post-war pawns. Their currencies are DESIGNED to be debased, as and when needed, to achieve synchronized diving with the pound and dollar.
If Germany wasn't in the Euro, its prior experience with
hyper-inflation would prevent it from debasing when instructed to do so
(obviously not a problem with the Nips).  Both countries go along as
willing pawns simply because they have been re-created post-war as
export nations totally reliant on weak currencies.

 

The PIIGS profligate spending has ALWAYS been there, like a fat
store, and can be used by the brain when needed to feed the body.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-21-24/will-grexit-be-euro-posi...

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:01 | 4331441 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

but if the EUR is 57% of the dollar, what happens when it's 100%?  Sounds like I need to buy some more swiss francs... or something.

Probably won't matter as all paper promises will go to zero.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:05 | 4331459 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

USA not in top 10 anymore

 

2014 Index of Economic Freedom
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:13 | 4331494 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

But... but... we're number 1?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:21 | 4331503 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

You are like youthful Amerikan soldier in Vietnam tempt by young prostitute, "you are number #1 Joe!"

You are just keep tell self that... end of day are still cripple by festering canker and open sore.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 08:00 | 4333558 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

Boris, it was sarcasm.  I know better.  I try to take the lessons of history to heart, discover truth and differentiate between truth and reality.  Sometimes I think truth is more scarce than rhodium.  It also isn't always pleasant knowledge to get.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:38 | 4331603 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

And exceptional!

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:15 | 4331499 max2205
max2205's picture

War IS the answer to govt debt problems....don't people do anything the govt says when there is a war

 

Oppps forgot we've been at war with terorists for over 14 years.....used that chance up federalies

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:20 | 4331514 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

"Crisis is rally cry of tyrant, creed of serf" - William Pitt the Younger

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:35 | 4331594 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  used that chance up federalies

Naaa,   just need another "style" of enemy.   The dumbasses always love a good war as long as the slow-motion eagles and flags are invited to come along. 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:20 | 4331518 NOZZLE
NOZZLE's picture

Yeah, its now in the top ten regarding debt to GDP, that's an accomplishment aint it.  Next time don't go around bombing tiny countries like Serbia which led to further adverturisms in places like Shitcanistan.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:39 | 4331608 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

It is our moral duty to spread freedom to those unfortunate nations that are unable to spread freedom for themselves.  And, with our infinite "Keynesian" debt capacity we can easily afford to do so.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:37 | 4331844 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Re: Top ten 

Lets see:

Swissyland: Socialist Nanny State

Canada: Pretty socialist, high taxes

Denmark: Socialist Democracy

Mauritius: Who cares, it will be under water shortly

Ireland: Socialist democracy...

ANZAC: Socialist Democracies with single payer universal health care

Singapore: Repressive Nanny State

Which leaves Hong Kong: Place most likely to the breakout of the next Avian flu pandemic and

Chile: Former fascist state with nationalized production of copper (most important export)... 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:05 | 4331462 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Swiss Franc is also debase by intention. Great fallacy is Swiss is neutral in war without pick side. Swiss is just smart to position for quick switch to winning side. Swiss game is up with AmericKa destruction of secret banking guild.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:18 | 4331510 max2205
max2205's picture

Start with taking a nice 20% off those 7,000 bazilonares assets. ..not savings...assets

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:26 | 4331540 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Uh-oh, Boris is offend national Switzerland, is receive down arrow. Boris is apologize. Swiss is bastion of freedom and neutrality, is never collaborate with Nazi, is never expose depositor information to US Government (collection arm of Federal Reserve), is never debase currency or re-hypothecate gold holding.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:29 | 4331559 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Swiss is

very clean, too.  Don't forget that.    That's gotta count for allot.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:31 | 4331568 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Appearance of cleanliness, like photoshop of aging glamour model.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:06 | 4331463 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Can we please stop calling it "tax revenue"??? Revenue is EARNED, not appropriated.

"Tax confiscations" is the correct terminology.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:15 | 4331498 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Sound is about right...

IRS (USA) = Internal Confiscation Services

CRA (Canadia) = Custom and Confiscation Agency

FTS (Russia) = Federal Confiscation Service

At least Italy "Tax Collection Service" is not to lie about confiscatory nature of money is steal from citizenry.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:25 | 4331542 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  steal from citizenry

Somebody has to pay for all the cool stuff the government makes (plus the management fee of course.  You can't expect the big idea people to work for free).

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:30 | 4331560 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is define "Theft"

- to take not yours and keep or give to other person*

There, you are welcome.

* Give to other person some time is call "Fraudulent disposition of asset", for example, big bank is give bonus to junior bankster, or Bernie Madoff is give diamond tennis bracelet to daughter.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:22 | 4331798 Overfed
Overfed's picture

It's not theft. It's robbery at gunpoint. Big difference.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 11:10 | 4333920 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

AKA Armed Robbery

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:07 | 4331742 AngelEyes00
AngelEyes00's picture

So all that debt may need restructuring?  WTF does that mean?  Does it mean redefining debt as non-debt?  The amazing fiscal follies we are now seeing in a desperate effort to just keep on going are stunning!

Are we as individuals allowed to restructure our debt?  Maybe if we go bankrupt, but we presume govt's will not go bankrupt but instead 'restructure' their debt. 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 20:56 | 4332538 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

buy some shiny euros, you win either way. Just like shiny mexican pesos

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:03 | 4331451 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Inflation is cause by deflation of currency, not economic growth. This is expose great fallacy of bankster class which is profit by inflation (monetization of debt) as skim illegitimate profit from velocity of money. Velocity of money is occur by economic growth and by inflation, so is easy for fancy pant economist to use inflation fallacy to obfuscate theft of citizenry.

... but what is Boris know?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:05 | 4331456 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

why not just write in Cyrillic?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:11 | 4331475 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

You and other ZHer is read Cyrillic?

Beside, ZH is not support for Unicode or Windows 1251 (IBM Code Page 866). You are show Boris Cyrillic? Here is Cyrillic

??????? ????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????.

See, cyrillic is not work.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:36 | 4331596 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

Yes, I can read Cyrillic, and you are right, ZH will not code it. More is the pity. Cyrillic script unfortunately looks ridiculous when transliterated into Latin letters. Cyrillic has the advantage compared to other Slavic alphabets in that there are no diacritic marks that one has no idea how to pronounce (Croatian, Czech, Slovak, etc).

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:04 | 4331731 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Croatia, Czech, Slovak, Pole is unduly influence first by Latin (Italy) and then is germanic (Austri - Hapsberg), and is lose Cyrillic writing system. Yes, is pity.

Maybe Tyler is add Unicode support (UTF-8) for ZH! Boris is like Chinese Character (cannot read, but is enjoy for tattoo!).

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:18 | 4331781 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

When learning to read & write Russian, I had to practice 2 Russian alphabets, the printed and the handwritten. I was not told that here is a third - the italic printed alphabet - which is a sort of bastardized mix of the first two and drives me to distraction when trying to read it, for example in newspaper subheadings.
Chinese I am saving for the next incarnation. At least there are no cases and verbal aspects!

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:45 | 4331880 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Chinese is speak like primitive language, but when is hear, is sound like music, up and down, up and down, like sing.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:52 | 4331906 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Cyrillic looks like a lot of work to me.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 21:54 | 4332685 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

No, no, is much easy than English (using roman script) because one phonetic character is only to make one sound.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:17 | 4331505 JimS
JimS's picture

Well spoken, "Boris".

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:11 | 4331476 BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

Wouldn't it just be a kick if at some top level, ZH was occasionally used as a propaganda tool and for market influence by some member of TPTB?   Just choosing which articles and commentary gets published could have market effects/consequences.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:34 | 4331584 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

at these readership levels?  math is not on your side...

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 13:58 | 4334463 BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

Math may not be on my side on the reader count, but I'm guessing a lot of these readers have serious coinage, a lot more so than average.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 15:59 | 4331430 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Thank God R&R made that math error in their seminal work on debt and growth.  Having been thoroughly discredited, we can now ignore everything else they say from here forward and keep going on the current path without fear of every paying any consequences.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:27 | 4331550 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

You have to ask - who pays their salaries and grant funding?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 15:58 | 4331431 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The uber-rich will be given a choice, either pay wealth taxes for redistribution or have their throats slit by a mob...

After ~250 years, the social contract rooted in the Enlightenment is unraveling as real economic growth is grinding to a halt and the "peasants" will not return to the days of lese majeste with a mere whimper... 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:14 | 4331473 optimator
optimator's picture

Tenth, haven't you noticed the Uber-rich have been preparing for the mob that's slowing finding out they're being had?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:13 | 4331482 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Well.... if history is a guide... that will not happen.

History shows us in Europe that the rich will pull all the strings and controle the mobs which they'll use at their discression.

The French revolution wasn't a guide. It was a fluke untill Napoleon took over aver the chaos of the revolution.

Useualy when the fabrics break down... scores are settled.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:22 | 4331530 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The Ancien Regime never went away, it just called itself Democracy.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 19:42 | 4332300 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Once again, you smack it out of the park...

Too bad it was a hanging curve that you popped up into section 103 just behind the dugout...

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 19:52 | 4335834 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Section 103 is INSIDE the park.

Wrong as usual.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 15:59 | 4331434 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Get rid of the banks and let people determine what can be done. Replace all governments with open source software.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:05 | 4331461 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Nice concept, but like any current or past ISM you've still got the problem of the sociopaths manipulating dumbasses with bullshit.

Something tells me if somehow "they" did what you suggested "they" would "be" the open source software.

Now, if you could develop some open-source software to detect sociopaths or bullshit...  

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:00 | 4331439 agent default
agent default's picture

So in short the EU is set for a breakup. The moment this crap is underway there will be a revolution.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:04 | 4331450 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

Reinhart can Rogoff. Study funded by ?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:04 | 4331454 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It all comes down to which side of the castle wall you will be on when the fighting occurs.  It always has come down to that.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:11 | 4331471 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

It all comes down to which side of the castle wall you will be on when the fighting occurs.

Yes, but when the fighting occurs, the castle is the very last place you will find me. 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:05 | 4331457 JR
JR's picture

February 16, 2009 Newsweek cover: "We Are All Socialists Now."

Newsweek:

In many ways our economy already resembles a European one. As boomers age and spending grows, we will become even more French.

Newsweek is now…defunct.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2012/07/25/newsweek-magazine-which-mocked-obamas-dumb-critics-cease-publishing-

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:07 | 4331467 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Newsweek is now…defunct.

They are still right tho.    Everybody loves the socialist scam they are personally living off of.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:07 | 4331468 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Belgium wants to nationalize it's private pension funds and do a Polish trick to bring down it's debt to GDP to 60%.

Needles to say... because it all goes as slow as it possibly can, people will massacer their accounts and ship it out of sight.

I'm stopping my pension savings as of this month and will try to liquidate it at a loss if possible.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:12 | 4331488 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Damn them.

He that panics first panics best.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:20 | 4331521 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Sudden Debt, 

Took the hit not so long ago myself. How many other people are slowly coming to the same decision? 

An avalance starting with a few snowflakes. 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:42 | 4331630 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea, i'm down to my last 2 million too.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:40 | 4332104 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I got some extra spare in the sugar pot just in case:)

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:36 | 4333423 frederic
frederic's picture

Could you give a reference where you found this info ?

However, I was thinking about the effect of spreading this rumor : people stop putting funds in the private pension funds but as this is to some degree tax deductible this mean more tax income.

Also for those that really panic and try and liquidate their fund, they first have to pay back all the tax deductions they have enjoyed, so again more tax income for the state.

But another question comes to mind : where would you put the money you either not put in the fund or get out of it ? You can't leave it in the bank, can you ? And do you thurst the stocks to keep going up ?

As my wife says : you can't win. But then I think I'll hold on to the Olymic though : Participating (in resisting) is more important than winning ...

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:14 | 4331492 akak
akak's picture

How are "taxes levied on savings and wealth" not simple governmental confiscation?

Government: "I am become death, the destroyer of savings (and economies)".

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:22 | 4331528 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Didn't Mao say something about the leaders only being able to lead in the direction the peasants are leaning?

(Maybe that was Jesus...   Or Tom Landry.)

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:13 | 4331493 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Debt repudiation will come. It is the only solution. Bright side : the repudiators will be welcomed back to the lending window within 6 months.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:14 | 4331495 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Ever heard of 'Odious Debt'?

That which cant be paid, eventuality wont be paid.

'We', dont owe it, the 'Government' does.

Its about time we started hanging these cunts, and I mean that in the nicest, most fucking vicious brutal way.

Fucking rat bastard, nation destroying, immoral, in it for themselves, care fuck all about us 'Peons', rat bastard cunts.

Its not 'Ours', you hateful fucking shit fucks, its all 'Yours'.  Cunts.

;-(

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:25 | 4331544 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

succinctly put !

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:33 | 4331831 superflex
superflex's picture

I always enjoy reading your posts.  

A day without you calling TPTB cunts is like a day without sunshine.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:55 | 4331920 smacker
smacker's picture

" 'We', dont owe it, the 'Government' does. "

 

Very well put my friend.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:17 | 4331508 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Guest Post: Europe’s Future: Inflation And Wealth Taxes

Guest Post: World's Future: Inflation And Wealth Taxes

Guest Post: World's Future & Past: Inflation And Wealth Taxes

Guest Post: Eternal recurrence of the same

Guest Post: Are we there yet?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:28 | 4331558 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

My Post: America's Future: Inflation and wealth taxes.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:29 | 4331561 sangell
sangell's picture

I think Spain has turned a deeper shade of green than that chart indicates. The rest of Europe ( sans Scandinavia) is probably dark green too if you consider the off budget liabilities of the EFSF and ESM which are going to be on budget in the very near future.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:32 | 4331575 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Looks like the cheap labor national immigration policy blows, debt map immigrant map, same.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 16:54 | 4331683 no more banksters
Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:33 | 4331830 chaartist
chaartist's picture

I believe we should look more up into the sky so we realize it is marginal.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 17:38 | 4331848 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

I am all for eliminating the income tax and taxing wealth instead. By taxing it you are bringing at least some of that wealth back into the economy. Let it grow tax free and this great wealth becomes a money supply black hole. The money goes in but it doesn't come back out. We cannot continue to survive by printing money to replace that which has been taken out of circulation by the wealthy.

The whole problem with a wealth tax is that it will need to be a world wide endeavor. Too much money has been sucked out of individual countries for it to ever work on a single nation basis. At the very least all banks worldwide would need to make full discosure of the value and identity of each account. If the ultimate individual account owner cannot be determined, then the account is seized until such proof is rendered. If you have been avoiding taxes all along this is where you will get caught. Any attempts to avoid this tax will be punished with forfieture of all the assets unreported.

I could see putting this tax in effect under the following scale:

Under $1 million in assets = no tax

$1 Million to $2.5 Million = 1% Annually

$2.5 Million to $5 Million = 2 % Annually

$5 Million to $10 Million = 2.5% Annually

$10 Million to $25 Million = 3% Annually

$25 Million to $100 Million = 4% Annually

$100 Million to $500 Million =5% Annually

$500 Million and Above = 6% Annually

Set the inheritance tax at levels neccesary to fund the balance of Gov. Ops. if this results in a shortfall.

With no income tax SS Tax can be raised to levels neccesary to improve and fully fund the program.

Medicaire will be rolled into a new national healthcare system. Part of what you paid in income tax would fund a basic premium. For better coverage one would need to buy a supplement. If you wanted private insurance instead that option would be available. I would expect the premiums to fund the program in whole.

Without required constant money printing the financial system would be gutted and replaced. The central bank would be eliminated as would fractional reserve banking. if we needed to fund a war or such then one time tax levies would be approved by national referendum.

The benefits to the economy of the above would be astronomical and no one would be made to suffer because of it.  

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:33 | 4332068 ZH11
ZH11's picture

I'm with you, or we could do as EF Schumacher proposed and abolish corporation tax for these large companies and instead take 50% equity. This way the public have direct access to these profits so they can't be hidden away and society starts to benefit from the fruits of business instead of having private prosperity and public impoverishment.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:36 | 4332082 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

The "wealthy" do not hoard "the money". The money that's being hoarded is what the Fed, on its own, decide to print and hand over to the banks which in turn park it at the Fed... because the Fed pays them to do so.

Taxing the "wealthy" does not solve this problem.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:42 | 4332111 ZH11
ZH11's picture

#AAPL?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 19:58 | 4332341 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

This is nothing compared to #M0 and taxing AAPL won't change the fact that government is paying banks to hoard money. (Not that we need any more loans frankly, the currently pinned ZH post shows a bit why)

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:09 | 4331966 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Who cares.  Let the Europeans sort it out.  At least they have a fuck of a lot more political diversity than does the US, where the sheep only "think" they are more free or more brave.

When was the last time we saw the kind of marches or strikes in the US, that we've seen in Europe, Turkey, etc?  "Home of the Brave and Land of the Free", my ass! 

Even with all the Guns & Ammo (G&A), you don't see anyone actually doing something.  In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that the more "Gov oppression" the US sees, the more likely you're to see people directing their anger or fear into buying more G&A, rather than using it, or even marching openly.

The US populace is "all Hat, no Cattle".  No wonder the 1% don't respect us... we haven't EARNED it.  Not lately anyway.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:30 | 4332055 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

The reasons you see strikes and marches in Europe is because people are A) poorer and/or B) greater entitlement culture. Not because they have more "political diversity".

When you'll see the same in the US, you won't like it and won't welcome the "political diversity".

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:54 | 4332130 MagicMoney
MagicMoney's picture

Ha, no they don't have more political diversity. Europe is full of socialist leaning peoples, hence why their future won't change much from that other than more taxes, and inflation. When you have half of the population working for the government, yeah, when you cut government spending, naturally it's going to be painful, so the most expedient way for politicians will be through inflation, and taxes on wealth, and savings. Savings can always be demonized as evil hoarding of money, and of course wealth is demonized too as it's from too much greed. The writing is on the wall for Europe, and it's future. Free enterprise created the wealth, then comes big government to grow on top of it, sapping away from it. When you lever up to provide government  jobs, and services in a large scale, you bet that's a dangerous postition. It's basically a government bubble financed by leverage. That's why I don't have much hope in Europe, because frankly, there isn't much hope in European people as a society.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:27 | 4332036 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

in which they argued that high levels of public debt have historically been associated with reduced growth opportunities.

I can't believe Reinhart and Rogoff got flak for saying that. Of course, the more the government spends, the more people spend time to get a government contract and don't give a fuck about producing things that people would want absent government spending.

The more a government spends, the more it becomes the only game in town.

That is not even debatable.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:28 | 4332794 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

When the non peer reviewed piece is found to be based on an "excel error"....

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:27 | 4332037 ZH11
ZH11's picture

Oh noes so much debt, so bad for business...Reinhart and Rogoff can't use excel but their ideas must be taken as an absolute in how to run a country's finances.


Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:33 | 4332064 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

It's not "bad for business" but it's bad for an economy's output on the aggregate as resources are being used for politically aligned uses rather than what consumers would actually want.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 18:40 | 4332103 ZH11
ZH11's picture

Private business is the economic output of the country, at least that's what I'm always being told on this website.

Debt is brilliant, it's inflationary thus keeps the general public on the treadmill, increases asset values of the rich without work and means lots of people are employed in useless jobs to talk about it or administer it e.g. economists, bankers, politicians, civil servants etc, which in itself is of course good for GDP the sine que non of existence.

 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 20:02 | 4332358 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Debt can be brilliant to the extent that you do something brilliant with it, as a producer, not as a consumer. Obviously, government debt doesn't pass the smell test since the state does not need to come up with a cohesive business plan to acquire capital, like you and I would need to do.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 21:28 | 4332607 dougngen
dougngen's picture

Tyler's and Zerohedge your ads are ruining the website. decreased revenue from fewer visits. You guys sold out!

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:39 | 4345719 skydrake
skydrake's picture

"Reinhart and Rogoff see two facts of life for Europe’s future: financial repression through higher inflation rates and taxes levied on savings and wealth"

 

Which high inflation rate?

 

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