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Marc Faber Warns "The Bubble Could Burst Any Day"; Prefers Physical Gold To Bitcoin

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"The Fed's policies have actually led to a lot of problems around the world," Marc Faber begins his discussion with Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan, especially "people in the lower income groups [who] spend say 30% of their income on energy, transportation, and so forth, electricity and gasoline." The Gloom, Boom & Doom Report author goes on to discuss everything from how the Fed is creating a two-class system around the world, the inexorable growth of governments, buying votes, Bitcoin, interest rates, wealth taxes, and overall market valuations. "We are in a gigantic financial asset bubble," Faber explains, "everybody's bullish," but he sees a slowing global economy (as do we e.g. Baltic Dry Index); "[The bubble] could burst any day. I think we are very stretched." Faber is on fire...

 

Take 10 minutes and listen...

 

 

Prepare yourself... "In China, if I say what I am saying about the USA, they would not let me in the country"

 

Faber on the Fed and how far the 'rubber band can be stretched':

"We have to distinguish between the financial economy, the financial sector, and the economy of the well-to-do people that benefit from rising asset prices, from rising prices of wines, and paintings and art, and bonds, and equities, and high-end properties in the Hamptons and West 15 here in New York and so forth -- and the average person, the typical household, the so-called 'median household', or the working class people. And the Fed's policies have actually led to a lot of problems around the world in the sense that they're not only responsible, but partly responsible that energy prices are where they are, they're up from $10 or $12 in 1999 to now around $100 a barrel. Food prices are up and a lot of other prices are up. So on your income, energy prices have very little impact because you at Bloomberg - you, young man - you make so much money. But for the poor people, it has an impact. Some people in the lower income groups, they spend say 30% of their income on energy, transportation, and so forth, electricity and gasoline."

On whether the Fed is creating a two-class system:

"Correct, largely. The problem is then that you have people like Bill de Blasio, they come in and say: 'you know what's the problem? All these rich guys. Because of these rich people, you are poor. They take advantage of you. So, let's go and tax them.' The IMF has come out with a paper in Europe that essentially the well-to-do people should pay a 10% wealth task -- a one-time wealth tax. I can assure you, a one-time wealth tax, 10%, will become an every-year's tax eventually."

On how to help the people on the lower end of the economic spectrum:

"This is the point I'd like to make. All of these professors and academics at the Fed who never really worked in the private sector a single day in their lives, and write papers nobody reads and nobody's is interested in. Why would they want not write about how you structure an economic system that lifts the standard of living of most people? You can't lift everybody."

 

"We had that in the 19th century in the U.S. because we had very small government at the time. The entire government -- local, state federal -- was less than 20% of the economy. Now it is close to 50% of the economy."

On whether the government is spending too much money:

"The larger the government becomes, the less economic growth you have and the more crony capitalism and corruptions you have. Because big corporations -- and especially the money printers, they're the most powerful people in the world, they control the governments. The U.S. Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and the government is one and the same. The Fed, they finance the Treasury, so the government can go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then they finance transfer payments to essentially buy votes so you can get elected."

On bitcoin:

"I prefer physical gold and silver, platinum to bitcoin. Bitcoin can have a lot of competition. Gold, silver, platinum -- they have no competition. How do you value a bitcoin? I can value gold to some extent and compare say gold to the quantity of money that is floating around the world, to the wealth increase, and to the monetary base increase, to the credit increase, and so forth and so on, and to the production costs. So I have an idea of where gold should be. I'm not sure because prices overshoot. How do you value Netflix? Is it overpriced or underpriced? Is Tesla overpriced, underpriced?"

On interest rates:

"But one thing I wanted to show you and talk about because you said that lower interest rates help people. Well, if money trending helps everybody, then why does not everybody in the whole world always have zero interest rates? And everybody would be rich. You keep on printing money and you don't need to work here, you don't need to put on makeup. I could stay in bed the whole day and go drinking in the evenings. So, let's just print money and be all happy. It doesn't add up. One thing about the figures you showed: first of all, you live in New York. Do you really think that your cost-of-living increase is a 1.2% per annum? You really believe that? It doesn't feel like more, it feels like five times more, or even ten times more."

 

"Number two, by keeping interest rates at zero percent on the Fed fund rate -- i want to emphasize that this is now going on in March of 2014 for five years. It is not something new. For five years this has happened. You penalize the income earners, the savers who save, your parents, why should your parents be forced to speculate in stocks and in real estate and everything under the sun?"

On his view of overvalued stocks, including Facebook:

"I think it is to a large extent a fad. People they go on Facebook - what they do is they put pictures on and the only people that watch these pictures are themselves. They all want to be stars. It is a very distractive kind of occupation. I can't imagine that this would have a lot of value. I would rather own - I don't own it because I think it is very highly priced - I would rather own a company like Alibaba or Amazon or Google, than Facebook, personally. This is my view. Other people have different views. That's what makes the market. Some people are buying it and some people are selling it.”

On overall market valuation concerns:

"I think we are in a gigantic financial asset bubble. But it is interesting that that despite of all the money printing, bond yields didn't go down. They bottomed out on July 25, 2012 at 1.43% on the 10-years. We went to over 3.0%. We're now at 2.85% or something thereabout. But we're up substantially. Now, this hasn't had an impact on stocks yet. In fact, it pushed money into the stock market out of the bond market. But if the 10-years goes to say 3.5% to 4.0%, then the 30-year goes to close to 5.0%, the mortgage rates go to 6.0%. That will hit the economy very hard."

 

"[The bubble] could burst before. It could burst any day. I think we are very stretched. Sentiment figures are very, very bullish. Everybody's bullish. The reality is they're very bullish because they think the economy will accelerate on the upside. But my view is very different. The global economy is slowing down, because the global economy's largely emerging economies nowadays, and there's no growth in exports in emerging economies, there's no growth, in the local economies. So, I feel that the valuations are high, the corporate profits have been boosted largely because of the falling interest rates."

 

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Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:50 | 4332875 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture
View the profile of Exponere Mendaces - Bitcoin Forum oh my child, you have so much to learn from this old man of whiskey, Thai stick, and bangkok whores. there are worlds where the NSA funny money will never penetrate. or be known.
Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:24 | 4333154 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 get your cardboard box ready , when btc=0, you'll be living in it

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:00 | 4333400 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

"I prefer physical gold and silver, platinum to bitcoin. Bitcoin can have a lot of competition. Gold, silver, platinum -- they have no competition. How do you value a bitcoin?
***
Where is the confusion, given that GOLD exists, he prefers GOLD over BITCOIN.

Now the bit-tards are telling us if you don't favor BTC over GOLD then you bad?

Then Faber goes on to say that 'GOLD' has no competition, no a guy can't just pull GOLD out of his computer-ass,

Then Faber goes on to say "How do you value BTC?", We all know how its valued, any fucking number the BTC exchanges chooses to POST.

***

So there are two reasons.

1.) BTC has infinite competition, anybody can copy the software and compete with BTC, ...

2.) There is no one to place value on something intangible, for ages folks have argued "How many angles can dance on a needle", and ONLY fonestar can answer that question. For what is the value of "BITCOIN", ... its a philosophers question, not a question of tangible, but the intangible.

These two reasons are not hatred of BTC, they're are just rational reasons, to run away from the bit-coin bitch and hide until the bit-tards die from starvation or self abuse.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:16 | 4332759 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Faber's concern for "lower income groups" is touching. /s

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:52 | 4332884 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

they're all talking this line now. Druckenmueller, Rickards, Farber, and Grant. has quite a nice ring to it don't you think?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:16 | 4333134 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

well, that's what we're up against.

People still argue our hearts in the wrong place, when the fact is that planning doesn't WORK as promised.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 15:41 | 4334908 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It is also why the legalization of lighter drugs like marijuana are being explored, and tried.

Gotta keep the peons docile.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:53 | 4333396 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

The same thought,.. .about once a month I email Marc and I say, so Marc how much is Doom & Gloom? You got a price for a poor student living in remote China?

Marc always answers the same "Doom&Gloom" starts at $1,000/year, ... then goes up, ... I suspect that if you pay $10,000 USD / year, Marc tosses in a coupon for his Thai restaurant in HK.

Surely this guy is working because he has too, no other possible explanation.

He is CASH POOR.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:17 | 4332760 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

Note the comments on the impact of high energy prices - high energy prices = less consumption = layoffs = deflation = government social programmes stressed = more layoffs = a DEATH SPIRAL

Have a look at this http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/01/02/why-a-finite-world-is-a-problem/#mo...

THE PROBLEM WE ARE FACING IS THE END OF CHEAP ENERGY.  AND THERE IS NO SOLUTION (well if there is we better have the miracle cure now...)

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:35 | 4332822 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Might be we are nearing an end to cheap credit. That would buy some more time before the "World Made by Hand" scenario manifests.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:20 | 4332771 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

"I prefer physical gold and silver, platinum to bitcoin. Bitcoin can have a lot of competition. Gold, silver, platinum -- they have no competition. How do you value a bitcoin?

***

it's called LOGIC, ... but it defy's all here on ZH,

What would you rather have a real women you can touch and hold, or a virtual women you can beat-off in the virtual game-boy world?

Most BTC ZH ho's will tell you the virtual woman is better, ... problem is most of the BTC guy's have never been with a woman, and have never had any GOLD, thus its a shallow fucking argument to tell that something REAL is better than FAKE(virtual).

Pet-Rocks, beanie-baby's, cabbage-patch-dolls, ... problem is  the USA hasn't had a good SCAM for 15+ years, so the kids these days at 25, have never in their life seen a normal cycle scam.

But keep up the good work and leave the real women for us older guys and you can have the virtual women.

 

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:29 | 4332799 akak
akak's picture

 

Pet-Rocks, beanie-baby's, cabbage-patch-dolls, ... problem is  the USA hasn't had a good SCAM for 15+ years, so the kids these days at 25, have never in their life seen a normal cycle scam.

I think you're forgetting about the stock market, and housing, and bonds, and the War on Terra, and ....

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:51 | 4332877 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

akak: You forgot about McHugepenis Bonds backed by Greenspittle smashed asholes.

It's a mattering of the crustiest bits of investwhoring strategies.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:55 | 4332893 akak
akak's picture

Alas, alas, three percent fictional inflation rate alas, just have to bear with the negative yield of it.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 22:54 | 4332890 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Gotta agree with you on that one akak. Imagine that.

The funny thing is stocks, houses, bonds, war on terror, etc... are all given some degree of legitimacy by the mainstream corporate whores called media.  It'll be interesting to see what this country looks like if those things end up in the dust bins of history like beanie-babies and cabbage patch dolls. I hope people are mature enough to make it a smooth transition, but I know that's just dreaming.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:13 | 4333128 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

What's missed is that cabbage-patch dolls and beanie-babys was 'usa house wives' trying to get rich quick.

BTC is nerds who have never had a girlfriend trying to get rich,

 

I think most men are just trying to get by, get laid, and get drunk.

***

I think if the easy NSA spy money and social media money had not been here when it was that BTC would have never gained traction, you  can thank the NSA spy facebook winkelvoss fuckheads for investing in BTC.

I hope these assholes lose all their money.

***

Had the FED not engineered permenant housing bubbles since the 1970's the USA would have died years ago, ... so they kept the bitch alive and politicians in office for +30 years, and now the FINAL SOLUTION is at hand.

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:09 | 4333116 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

I will not diss you on the stock-market,

for all paper ( bond or stock ) is toilet paper.

but a home, is still a thing and so is land, food, and gold.

**

War on Terror don't have a fucking thing to do with pyramid scams.

**

Don't mix shit when you don't understand them, BB,Cab-dools, Btc's are all pyramid scams, where early folk get the $$, its old very old.

War on Terror, 200 years ago it was war on INJUNS, ... permenant war is just that permanent. I have seen war on poverty, war on drugs, ... all my life the USA has been at 'war' with something.

Stock-Market, aka paper-ownership of a company, didn't exist for the masses more than 120 years ago, largely a new ponzi scam, ... move along.

all of wall street is perpetual ponzi, even madoff has said that

bonds, are just another wall-st clusterfuck, paper ponzi

**
At subject here is pyramid scams beanie-babys, cabbage patch dolls, bitcoins, where morons are lured in by the promise of a bitcoin going to a million dollars, these are called pyramid scams.

Housing, is american as apple pie and since Nixon went off GOLD in 1972 the USA has been in permanent BUBBLE, and most of it HOUSING, cuz it creates the most jobs.

FUCK WALL STREET, ... nothing worth talkiing about bonds or stocks, .. just bullshit for circle jerkers.

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 08:21 | 4333571 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

There is a SCAM by some unknown, say a NSA researcher who call's himself 'satoshi', and then there is the FED and orchestrated NAZI SLAVERY,

But when I talk about SCAM, I'm talking about little people being fleeced, when you talk about the 'war on terra', your talking about 10's of millions being murdered by the government, and that's not scam, its GENOCIDE.

I always ask, but never get an answer here, how many people have been murdered to date, to make BTC what it is?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 23:04 | 4332921 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

IMHO Bitcoin is actually a bait thrown up by the same Wall Street cabal to fleece more money.

They will soon loose hold over both the Gold & Silver manipulations.

Faber is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT in prefering Gold

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:19 | 4333142 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Satoshi is not one person, its obviously a cover, for a team of at least three that worked together to create Bitcoin.  And do you think they worked for free, and obscured their identity for no reason?

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 23:04 | 4332922 JailBanksters
JailBanksters's picture

Bitcoin or Gold, who in their right mind is going to exchange 1oz of Gold or a Bitcoin for $20,000 USD. All you should do is by another asset. At that point what is that asset worth.

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 23:26 | 4332991 ak_khanna
ak_khanna's picture

Countries around the world are taking on more debt without any fruitful attempts to curb their expenditures. This has resulted in a much more fragile and artificially held up financial system which is on a much shaky ground than it was in 2008. In 2008 companies failed due to excessive leverage and debt and now countries are likely to default because they took on the same bad debt on themselves. 

There is no economic recovery because all the efforts of politicians, government, central banks etc are focused on saving banks instead of targeting job creation which is the only way economy can recover. 

The weakness in the democratic process ensures the victory of the Wall Street over the Real Economy for the foreseeable future. Things are definitely going to get much much worse before they get better for the real economy i.e. for more than 90% of the population.

www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html

Thu, 01/16/2014 - 13:04 | 4338132 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

@ak_khanna

 

you're right, but not only countries, the banks are also crazily shoving all kinds of consumer credits to the masses

it freaks out the sensible mind... the final outcome won't be good!

Tue, 01/14/2014 - 23:31 | 4333006 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Look at Drudge. Count 5 links down from link below 

http://cryptome.org/

Links 10 & 11 contribute to the dish in the air. 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:22 | 4333150 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 Isn't Faber Jim Rogers illegitimate son?

 

Or maybe its the other way around.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:24 | 4333155 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Marc Faber spot dead fucking on once again.

Trish Regan showing some leg; Trish - you are a Tigress, I am a Lord Tiger - let us rule the jungle together.  Email me.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:16 | 4333349 Conax
Conax's picture

Nice line!  Lolz.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:46 | 4333201 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Since the MSM, Fed,  and many mainstrean financial talking heads are getting on the bitcoin bandwagon ...........I'm thinking I like it less and less.

Can you stack bit'coins'? Are bit'coins' EMP proof?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 00:54 | 4333228 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

"Beware of the Kraken....."...is what Faber is trying to say.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:01 | 4333242 STG5IVE
STG5IVE's picture

This just came across the TOS newsfeed at 23:44

 

FED S FISHER: THE FED SHOULD PARE ITS BOND BUYING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, EVEN IF DOING SO SENDS STOCK PRICES TUMBLING, BECAUSE MORE BOND BUYING RISKS INFLATION AND MAKES AN EVENTUAL EXIT FROM EASY POLICIES MORE DIFFICULT

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:10 | 4333259 Spungo
Spungo's picture

It's really sad that super rich guys like Faber are the only people coming to the defense of poor people. Where the fuck is the media?

Bernanke: This stimulus package is working great. All of my billionaire friends at the country club are doing better than ever.
Faber: What about people who don't own stocks?
Bernanke: ....... who? 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:16 | 4333271 nagan
nagan's picture

Read daily Marc Faber articles at www.marcfabersblog.com

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:42 | 4333297 Spungo
Spungo's picture

"Which is why FABER sells newsletters for $1000/year on ZH." You guys are paying to read ZH?

The newsletter business isn't all scams. Being a good investors involves a lot of reading, keeping up with the news, and arguing with internet people. If you're already doing this for the sake of investing, why not write it down and try to sell your thoughts?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:32 | 4333369 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

If Faber cared about 'little people' he would be giving his newsletter away for free.

The fact that he puts his newsletter out of reach of mortals means that he only gives a fuck about 'corporate clients'.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:43 | 4333301 illadeljim
illadeljim's picture

So, I liquidated all physical gold and silver and put all my money into Bitcoin. Now I pray everynight that hackers don't steal it all.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:45 | 4333305 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Snowden revelation that 'Nazi space aliens' are controlling the US.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 01:47 | 4333308 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Bitcoin? What a scam. You should short gold and buy yen.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:37 | 4333322 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Marc Faber has been correct saying that the bubble could burst any day for quite some time.

"Could" however does not mean IT WILL.

"Could" means we have been warned and must take defensive measures so as to ensure a minimum of damage when the big one hits.

And that is what worries me. The lack of preparedness and the lack of a safety margin at most levels of society.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:05 | 4333334 sandiegoman
sandiegoman's picture

The big problem with China is that when the shit hits the fan, and by this I mean their uber leveraged banks, they will sell gold. Yes, sell gold. Look at what happened during the last Asian financial crisis. People were lining up to sell whatever they could. So don't be so sure that China will always be the lifeboat for gold.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:10 | 4333339 Spungo
Spungo's picture

If the price of gold goes down when there is record high demand, maybe the price of gold will go up when everybody is rushing to sell it. The New Normal.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:10 | 4333340 Conax
Conax's picture

Just as an aside, Kudos to Mr. Faber on this appearance.  I had no trouble understanding his points, he showed good humor, all in all, a great job.

From now on I will try to catch all his interviews.

Thanks to TD for posting it.  ;)

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:29 | 4333365 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Ukraine Control BTC "Kill Switch"

Bitcoin was designed to be a currency free from the corrupting influence of government or any other centralized authority. Now, though, with the value of a single electronic unit hovering around $1,000, the battle to control emission of Bitcoins is on.

The developers of Bitcoin created an ingenious system to regulate the currency's supply: Independent "miners" earn new currency by using their computers' processing power to perform the mathematical operations needed to make transactions in Bitcoin possible. The operations become more difficult as the amount of Bitcoins issued approaches a limit of 21 million.

Initially, a home computer was all one required to become a Bitcoin miner. As the market grew, high-performance graphic cards became the tool of choice. Nowadays, most of the mining is done by dedicated devices called application-specific integrated circuits, and miners form pools that allow them to earn a regular, small profit instead of the occasional and improbable big payoff.

One mining pool, known as GHash.io and run by an outfit called CEX.io, went a step further by selling something akin to shares in a high-tech operation with lots of specialized hardware. Would-be miners simply pay for their piece of the computing power, then sit back and collect income.

Last week, some independent miners noticed that GHash.io had grown so large that it controlled 45 percent of the Bitcoin network's processing power -- in other words, one organization was on the verge of dominating the emission of Bitcoins. Commentators on Bitcoin forums began to worry that if GHash.io gained a 51 percent share, it would be able to reverse transactions and make it possible to pay twice with the same Bitcoins. Such centralized power could render the currency useless.

GHash.io quickly declared that it had no intention of executing a "51 percent attack." It stopped accepting independent miners and said its users would be allowed to mine for other pools. By Monday, GHash.io's share of the network's processing power was down to 34 percent, according to the website Blockchain.info. Bitcoin miners are no fools: Allowing one pool to dominate would devalue their holdings. That said, a large farm controlling a lot of equipment, even if it is used to mine for different pools, could still quietly accumulate and abuse a majority without killing the entire market.

CEX.io is a secretive company whose spokesman and chief information officer calls himself Jeffrey Smith. His LinkedIn profile lists him as a graduate of the International Christian University in Kiev, Ukraine, and a Ukrainian resident. Far from the center of the financial universe, Ukraine is a lawless place where world-class programmers often earn U.S. poverty level salaries and are therefore willing to take risks. Entrepreneurs in Hong Kong and China, among Bitcoin's biggest markets, are also building mining farms that could present a centralization threat. Theoretically, competition among such operations should make it difficult for any one to control Bitcoin emission, yet there is always a potential for collusion within an oligopoly, or a successful hacking attack on a few large organizations.

So far, about 12.2 million Bitcoins have been mined. The more the currency grows, the stronger becomes the big farms' grip on emission. With billions of dollars at stake, the virtual currency no longer works in ways envisaged by its founders. They did not mean for it be a commodity for Chinese speculators, nor as a product to be turned out by industrial-sized specialized operations. Bitcoin is now less a currency than a kind of risky bond for which the issuers bear no responsibility. Investors should be aware that the situation is ripe for abuse.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:46 | 4333388 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Bitcoin is now less a currency than a kind of risky bond for which the issuers bear no responsibility. Investors should be aware that the situation is ripe for abuse.
***
What part of this do bit-tards not understand?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 04:55 | 4333452 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

they're printing ATM machines now. that's also known as "a bank." at some point a 3 d printer will LITERALLY print the ATM "for $1500 bucks"...what can't be replicated is the wireless network security system....but it's not for lack of trying. the idea that all Americans might soon get ATM cards that are impregnable scares a lot of people. one reason for the euro rally is that they already have that over there. obviously the data breach this Christmas was epic. At least a billion plus looted. "not for much longer." My guess is Valentine's Day will be the last chance to "loot again." then we're back to an all cash economy. commodity prices...and a big chunk of the mining space...will have long since collapsed by then.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 04:56 | 4333453 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

"a kind of risky bond"

Bitcoin behaves as a speculative "penny stock" in the overall Bitcoin enterprise including all the Bitcoin hardware, software, and human resources, as if it were a legal corporation, although it is not, and therefore does not have to provide any real information for investors.

Bitcoin does not behave like a bond because investors put money into it but are not promised the money to be paid back at some specific time, nor do they get regular interest or dividend payments. Instead, they hope to profit from capital appreciation like buying a speculative stock.

Now that the initial bid-up is finished, the people profiting from Bitcoin will be the expert traders with experience in these sorts of markets. Mining is no longer profitable for anyone except possibly the largest operators, so participants are left with speculation on price.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:32 | 4333371 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Trish Regan is just smokin' hot...and a pretty bright gal too. I like her style.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 05:02 | 4333455 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

The standard cast of characters: a pretty girl, a gruff old man, and a bland young man for contrast. What's not to like?

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:39 | 4333382 bdub2
bdub2's picture

This isn't trolling. I've run out of ways to say this market won't ever go down. There aren't words left. 

Yet another in a long list of useless facts of astonishment:

Compare muni funds to the s/p. You'll note that before the historic crashes '00 and '08, the difference in price (returns over 10 years) was most extreme when it was time to get the hell out of s/p, and buy muni's. BUT the extreme has never been to THIS extent. TODAY.  When history mattered, it clearly signaled that you want to buy stawks when returns over time are close to equal between stawks and munis. And when returns are close to 300% plus for s/p and 50% for muni's (look at, for example, 10-99 to 12-13) . It is time to GET OUT!

But here in rainbow unicornville, stocks are in another world, a whole new plateau of greatness. Forever. Thank you Ben. You vomit fuck. 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 02:43 | 4333384 bdub2
bdub2's picture

Let me de-word the above post:

Stocks and muni's have never been this out of wack. '00 and '08 were close. But this is extreme insanity level. Muni's were hated in 99, right before they went up 20%. 

zh=less word, more pith

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 03:30 | 4333422 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

"One thing about the figures you showed: first of all, you live in New York. Do you really think that your cost-of-living increase is a 1.2% per annum? You really believe that? It doesn't feel like more, it feels like five times more, or even ten times more."

 

I lived in Massachusetts for seventeen years and there are two things about that state that Faber's comment confirms.  One, the cost of EVERYTHING is going up and not coming down.  If it is such a great state, where is the productivity gains?  Second, the society and the standard of living is coming apart.  Pretty soon the suburbs of Massachusetts will come apart and start to resemble shanty towns.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 04:31 | 4333443 just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

There is the elephant in the corner of the room

Consumer spending...this drives the economy not the stock market and the peeps are tapping out

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 05:33 | 4333468 Duude
Duude's picture

znmb

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 05:31 | 4333469 Duude
Duude's picture

The government has a policy of continually shaping and changing the manufacture of economic statistics. Consumer product index, producer price index, GDP, employment are all productions dependent upon methodology for their conclusions. While I believe they were initially changed with the intention of producing better, or more accurate economic statistics, the process has morphed into one with the objective of producing a new methodology capable of producing more pleasing results. We can call it the Fed's little helper. It covers for a disappointing reality.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 06:09 | 4333494 sw73dq
sw73dq's picture

Why would you want to listen to this putrified foul-mouthed bag of puss who has made no contribution to humanity apart from betting on assets for a living, shouting down on governments around the world who, esp the USA, have been trying to create jobs and put foods on tables of "working people"?

I couldn't give a fuck what this shit thinks or don't but he's worth no more than a carcass that should not be fed to wild animals but shoved into those mouths of his own parasite family!

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 06:54 | 4333516 Rodders75
Rodders75's picture

 

Ha ha don't worry - we aren't in a bubble actually, says Richard Bernstein

http://e.businessinsider.com/view/4c49e9f07bb8fff1b11970381efuy.7lg/34dc01cf

Here's A Very Compelling Sign That We Are Not In A Stock Market Bubble  

Everyone's jumping into the stock market bubble debate lately. Goldman Sachs and Nuveen's Bob Doll both argue confidently that we're not in a bubble. 

Stock market veteran Rich Bernstein would agree

Among other things, Bernstein noted that high-beta stocks are actually trading below their historical valuations. (Beta measures a stock's sensitivity to the market.  High beta stocks tend to exhibit amplified moves relative to the market.) 

"It seems to us that a necessary condition for an equity bubble is the overvaluation of the stocks most sensitive to the overall stock market’s movement," said Bernstein. "It seems very unrealistic that high beta stocks could be selling at historically conservative valuations if there really was an equity bubble underway." 

Bernstein published this chart of price-earnings ratios for high beta stocks and low beta stocks.

Chart 1 shows the relative valuation of the stocks in the S&P 500® with the highest betas (i.e., those stocks with the highest sensitivity to overall market movements) versus that of the stocks with the lowest betas (i.e., those with the lowest sensitivity). Despite claims that the equity market is in a bubble, it is low beta stocks and not high beta stocks that are selling at rich valuations. High beta stocks are actually close to record conservative relative valuations. 

It's pretty compelling. As you can see, the high beta stocks traded at significant premiums during the last to bubbles and crashes. 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 07:14 | 4333524 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

Faber wasn't dsmissing Bitcoin, when he said it had a lot of competition, he meant anyone could start up a Bitcoin rival. He wasn't talking about precious metals as competition.

You watch. Wells Fargo, JPM, will all come up with their own Bitcoin equivalent. They are not going to let the Bitcoin world have a clear run. In the meantime, they are going to flash-crash Bitcoin every month or so to keep people on edge.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 08:06 | 4333561 GFORCE
GFORCE's picture

Marc Faber should rename his report the Doom n Goon...

He's been calling a top since 09.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 08:34 | 4333586 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

On how to help the people on the lower end of the economic spectrum:

"This is the point I'd like to make. All of these professors and academics at the Fed who never really worked in the private sector a single day in their lives, and write papers nobody reads and nobody's is interested in. Why would they want not write about how you structure an economic system that lifts the standard of living of most people? You can't lift everybody."

 "We had that in the 19th century in the U.S. because we had very small government at the time. The entire government -- local, state federal -- was less than 20% of the economy. Now it is close to 50% of the economy."

 

The transfer of wealth and cessation of lending, jobs and a financial system no longer focused on growth at a local level has replaced a perfectly good system.  Add in the tax burden, lost of equity of US housing sector, and you have a garrotte around the neck of the Middle Class of America and the world.  This man would be amiss should he miss the obvious (what would they think) so he must be one of those to stand before the herd, cattle prod and cow bell nearby, the one to say, It's Over.  Americans and their country are done, stick a fork in her.  The rich stay rich by stealing from the poor.

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 09:48 | 4333736 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

RE

"Correct, largely. The problem is then that you have people like Bill de Blasio, they come in and say: 'you know what's the problem? All these rich guys. Because of these rich people, you are poor. They take advantage of you. So, let's go and tax them.' The IMF has come out with a paper in Europe that essentially the well-to-do people should pay a 10% wealth task -- a one-time wealth tax. I can assure you, a one-time wealth tax, 10%, will become an every-year's tax eventually."

de Blasio got elected because the brown folk in NYC are sick of their balls being grabbed for no reason.....not b/c of tax rates (which I guaruntee......won't go up for rich people.  It will go up for poor and middle class people). 

Plus de Blasio is a Clintonista..........Matt Stoller correctly predicted he would surround himself with TBTF (Goldman Sachs) staffers (which he has) for his economic team, and even continue "Stop-n-Frisk" policies (and hiring Wille "I beat my wife" Bratton ensures that). 

Just because he said it in the campaign, doesn't mean he will actually do it.

It's also funny that Faber mentions he can enter the US with no problem, and that if he was as critical of China, they wouldn't let him in the country.

What Faber doesn't understand, that citizens who critize the US....will have problems LEAVING, not coming back in.  The US, when things start to really unwind, will be afraid of a great exodus from the empire state when it starts to jettison its care for its citizens.

There are no liberals, there are no conservatives......just corporatists and non-corporatists.

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 09:50 | 4333741 vincent
vincent's picture

CITIZENS UNITED no longer means what it used to.

 

 

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 10:52 | 4333877 kragsquest
kragsquest's picture

GET READY TO BE RICH!!!  HOLD ON TO YOUR GOLD FOLKS, YOUR SHIP IS ABOUT TO COME IN!!!

Wed, 01/15/2014 - 14:27 | 4334592 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

disagree with one point : energy prices are the tail wagging the dog, and those prices at their core are not measured in any currency.

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