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Guest Post: The Next Obamacare Crisis
Submitted by Alyene Senger via The National Interest,
After a botched rollout that was universally panned, it may seem like things are finally moving more smoothly for Obamacare. But 2014 and beyond promise more turbulence for consumers, with premium tax credits likely to be another crisis.
On January 1, Obamacare’s subsidized exchange coverage began. The Congressional Budget Office projects that exchange subsidies, both the premium tax credits and cost-sharing subsidies, will cost more than $1 trillion over 10 years, with up to 19 million people receiving federal subsidies to offset the cost of their exchange coverage in 2023.
Those who earn anywhere between 100 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty level ($11,490 to $45,960 for individuals and $23,550 to $94,200 for a family of four in 2013) and are not offered affordable and adequate coverage elsewhere will be eligible for Obamacare’s premium subsidies. These subsidies are applied on a sliding scale, with Americans in the lowest income level receiving the highest premium subsidy.
The credit can be claimed when filing the year’s taxes but it will more likely be used in advance as a way for consumers to lower their monthly premiums. But therein is the problem: The tax credits are tied to the enrollee’s monthly income. Thus, if a person’s income fluctuates, which happens more frequently than many realize, the subsidy amount will change from month to month. Thus, when it comes time to file taxes in April, the amount of subsidy received over the past year must be reconciled with the final calculation of the total subsidy for which the individual was eligible—based on actual income for the entire tax year.
So if you qualify for more subsidy help than you receive during the year, you’ll get a tax refund. But if you were given more subsidy than your income qualifies you for, you will be required to repay the excess subsidy.
However, repayment of the excess subsidy is capped for all those earning less than 400 percent of the federal poverty level (FPL). For those who earn less than 200 percent of the FPL, an individual’s repayment is capped at $300 and family’s capped at $600. For those between 200 percent and 300 percent of the federal poverty level, an individual is capped at $750 and a family repayment is capped at $1,500. And for those who earn at least 300 percent of FPL but less than 400 percent, repayments are capped at $1,250 for an individual and $2,500 for a family.
Only Americans making more than 400 percent of the federal poverty level would be forced to repay all of an incorrectly calculated Obamacare subsidy.
And if subsidized Obamacare exchange enrollees don’t report any changes in their income throughout the year, they could be on the hook for potentially expensive repayments come tax time.
To that end, an analysis published in Health Affairs estimated the number of enrollees who might be subject to repayment and how much repayment would cost. Researchers found “that family income fluctuated greatly from one year to the next” for the American families eligible for Obamacare subsidies, with an expected “37.8 percent having large income increases, while 35.5 percent facing large decreases. Thirty percent of recipients were in families whose income increased more than 20 percent, and 18.9 percent had income increases of more than 40 percent.”
In addition, the authors found the median Obamacare repayment—if no income changes were reported and no adjustments were made to subsidy amounts over a year— would be $857.
Subsidy repayments are just one more headache that Americans don’t need when it comes to their health care. The issue is symptomatic of many problems that will plague the law in coming years. The Obamacare crisis is multifaceted and far from over.
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Why would I sign up and pay monthly premiums when I can wait until I am sick? If I never get sick, then I will have saved an assload of money.
wait until sick
give fake name
pay only bare minimum to keep Healthcare on.....
Many ways will be found to ride this thing.
What a complicated clusterfuck! More reasons for MOAR .gov. We create the problems you have, so you need us to try and fix them.
Please just BUTT OUT of my life!!
"Please just BUTT OUT of my life!!"
No.
- The entire US government
Dear Gubmint,
Enjoy the massive heart attack.
- Free America
3 2 1 ..... to bailout time! This crap won't support itself. Who are we kidding. Taxpayers, bend over and get ready to take it up the ass!
It gets progressively (more cancellations, higher prices, added taxes) worse until 2018.
They are going for the "we have too much invested to go back now" plan.
$1TRILLION. So, JUST obamacare will double the budget. What ELSE will the Dems want us to pay for between now and then?
I don't see how you can support the claim that "Things are going more smoothly now"?:
It is clear that "Enrollment" is equivalent to putting all your personal data into a (Not very secure) database, selecting a plan and putting it into the cart. In general. the experience in online commerce has been that up to 70% of those place an item into the cart, never actually convert that to a real purchase by making payment. Of course, the MSM is not addressing this very basic distinction.
I predict that this will end in disaster with more Americans uninsured than before Obamacare but with one important difference. The FSA will all be covered one way or another and it will be the dwindling middle class which will suffer. But, fear not, a new single payer system will come to the rescue, at which point the US Government will control about 65% of the economy, slightly higher than that other well known capitalist bastion; France.
Perhaps you meant to say that other than the above data points, all of which could very easily result in a "Death spiral", everything ELSE is now running more smoothly?
One thing is not clear. How does the government/IRS even know if you have insurance? Are they looking through company records or forcing folks to mark "yes" on their income tax preparations or what? That part - like most of the stuff being worked out hourly - is a tad fuzzy. LIke everything else, it's a complete OBamanation.
Have you ever bought insurance ? hen you'll likely remember that every insurance you buy requires *drumroll maestro* your ssn. Guaranteed it gets sent on to the IRS.
Everything government touches turns to crap.
-Ringo Starr
I've heard of something called "income fitting" - meaning those who ask for a cut in pay in order to qualify for subsidy for insurance. The WSJ had a "tale of two families" where $2,000 more income meant they were out an extra $8,000 due to the wackiness of subsidies. This must be the hallmarm of sustainable progress - asking for a pay cut to buy insurance your goverment forces you to purchase. A couple of decades this would have been dismissed as utter delusional fantasy and now it's accepted as the norm.
Bullish for CPA's. Is their a CPA following fund or ETF ?
Turd counters to teh rescyoo!!
Until the law changes the IRS cannot go after someone owing more taxes because of ACA. If you understate income on application and receive higher subsidy the IRS can only recalculate tax and withold refund if any. According to the ACA law, as passed, you can lie and sit tight.
Further, if you don't overpay income tax witholding the IRS can go fish. I believe like most any GOV programs the scammers will be out in force.
Next - Insurance companies will ask for taxpayer bailouts for bad risk pools that have too many sick and old people in them.
Obamacare... or how can we grab more of your money?
The IRS is not allowed to target people due to their political affiliations either. /sarc
"Article 3, section 3 and guillotines are connected."
Janet YELLEN .... could be our first Bea Headed.
Dup
'There,' Stackers, 'there.'
If only Deloitte & Touche would IPO, right?
Got my fake name picked out, Pancho Salsa Rameriaze; bought a goofy sombrero and will work on my tan as soon as the Artic Vortexes die down.
Love it love it love it!
Even just getting a little sick won't hurt you. Unless you require a hospital stay or develop a need for an ongoing expensive drug treatment program, asking for cash rates and paying out of pocket for medical services will still come in WAY below the cost of maintaining insurance...even with the penalty tax baked in. At the end of the day, this turd won't float.
What if you ask for cash rates and (after a quick credit check, revealing that you have liquid assets to steal) they say no? American healthcare is a profit-making business. If you have plenty of time to shop around, maybe you can negotiate good cash rates. But if you need emergency care, they will take everything you have. Business is business.
Cash rates essentially get you into the neighborhood of average negotiated discount rates that are billed to insured patients/carriers, which is what a provider's profitability model is based on anyway. The provider gets cash at the time of service without having to file claims and wait for payment and everybody walks away happy. You really don't need much time to shop around, as most front desks will do this in person or over the phone. You are right about emergency care though, which could fall under the hospitalization category I originally described. Still, one trip to the ER without requiring admittance, while expensive, will still fall short of insurance premiums, and you will likely be able to negotiate some sort of discount after the fact (reduced payment trumps no payment in the eyes of the provider). Believe me, if my employer ever dropped its subsidized coverage (which is still fucking expensive for me), I would go this route in a heartbeat, and I have a family of five. I would have an insurance agent on speed dial though, in the event something catastrophic happened.
They cannot say no.
Read the article...
In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.
http://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.htm...
They can't say no to providing emergency services, but they can say no to cash rates. For emergency services or any other services, they can charge you anything they please, and if you don't pay, sell the bill to collectors who will go to court and take all your savings. Of course, if you are the typical American who has no savings and lives week to week, they can't get much, and might accept a discounted payment. In no state (I think) can they take your primary residence, and probably your IRA and 401k are off limits, though in many states they can hook your car.
I hate the system because I don't want to live week to week. I want to have some savings in the bank.
lol
i have been uninsured for 20 years-paygo/savings. need a hernia op. negotiated everything up front cash. would have been around 10,500 cash cost=6500. there you have it. i worked them hard.
plus one to the comment above.
also, we use zero meds(essential oils will ail all-dottera is the best), all coop food, zero gmo growth(tit) hormones, juice, garden and can and most of all do shit and don't fill our head with news and tb(shit).
take contol and say no with your feet...
I say fuckem with a barb wire wrapped 2x2 right up the ass...
imo get a sound body and soul and read ZH reguarily...
I have my savings in the Bank of Tempurpedic
Cash rates is not the issue. Last week I walked into lenscrafters for a new pair of glasses and needed the eye exam as well. The doc takes me into his room and starts the examination. Then he pushes back his stool and starts the interrogation.
What is your height?
What is your ....?
I asked what is the extent of this interview? What does my weight have to do with getting a new pair of glasses?
The doc says Now with Obamacare I'm required to get all this information, and they will come for an audit.
The doc slammed his folder closed and said Thank you. He threw me out of the office.
The problem is: If you disclose your personal information, you are agreeing to be governed under Obamacare, and they will hunt you down and fine you for anything (ie. overweight, high blood pressure, too many hours in the sun, driving too much which promotes eye strain, etc., etc.). And I prefer not to sign up.
I'd rather fly to Costa Rica and get a new pair of glasses after I go snorkeling at the beach.
And even if you do get sick with insurance, it'll be, what? A $5k deductible and 40% co-pay? If a couple paying $11k/yr for insurance has one come down with something serious, say cancer, and racks up $100k in medical costs, They will have already paid $11k, then another $5k, plus 40% of the remaining $95k, for a grand total of $54k. Hell, under that system, the break even point, i.e. the point where $11k of benefits are paid out is going to be ~$23k in medical bills. On top of that, the "tax" is going to be less than the premiums for the plans when not taking subsidies into account. That means there's a damned good chance that the "tax" collected will be less than the subsidies paid out. Clusterfuck doesn't even begin to describe Obamacare.
That doesn't sound very affordable to me.
A huge portion of ailments can be easily treated with antibiotics, which are available almost anywhere at very low cost.
A huger portion of ailments can be treated at a cash price lower than the premium+deductible+co-insurance.
A huge portion of ailments can be easily treated with antibiotics, which are available almost anywhere at very low cost.
This is correct.
For example: Non prescription antibiotics can ofter be acquired from veterinarian suppliers for cheaper even though the medication in question are made by the same pharmaceutical companies that provide prescription meds. With some research on side-effects and allergies you're good to go for minor illnesses like chronic bronchitis without the $100 doctor fees.
http://www.preparednesspro.com/fish-antibiotics
Warning: As with any medication there is always a certain level of risk involved with the use of antibiotics. Also, over use of these can help create antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria so please use responsibly.
What really pisses me off however, is that folks are being forced to go to these lengths to aquire what should be an easily avalible, life-saving medication. Of course this falls into the whole "I'm a doctor with a $100,000 degree and only I know how to look up side-effects in a book." Total bullshit.
Not me, friend. If at all possible, I will pay the doctor $100-$300 cash to take my history, do a physical examination, make a diagnosis, and recommend treatment options.
Free or pay-what-you-can community clinics are also a good option.
Selecting the right ABX isn't something to mess around with.
I completely agree with that you Horseman (and by the way big fan!) but we're only now seeing many of the old free/pay what you can clincs being severely hampered or over-run due to the ACA. Free care also may not be avalible based on a person's location or for some other reason. I was merely offering that info for the truly desperate with nowhere else to turn.
If you can see a real doctor you should. Horseman is totally right on that one. Your health is you MOST important asset so don't mess around with it. This ain't the Legend of Zelda you're playing.
The highest out-of-pocket maximums are around 10k. Very expensive considering the 11k premiums but well short of your 54k total.
Obamacare uses open enrollment periods, so you can't just sign up when you are sick. (Just because they said so on Fox doesn't mean it's true. Gasp.) I don't know how long the open enrollment period is, but probably six weeks or so toward the end of the year. Company-sponsored health plans tend to do the same thing. Then once you sign up, possibly the coverage does not start right away -- possibly it does not start until the next January 1 or something. So this whole right-wing thing about you can just sign up when you are sick is flamig bullshit and I am surprised so many apparently smart people fall for it.
On the other hand, if you are young, with negative net worth, it makes financial sense to free-ride. Just skip the insurance, never buy it, and if you get sick, don't pay your medical bills. You can get a decent amount of care for free that way (though upscale providers will do their best to get rid of you, and provide as little as they legally can.) Some providers would sell your unpaid debts to collectors, who would hound you forever, but who cares; if you have negative net worth they can't take anything from you. Other providers would shunt your unpaid bills to the taxpayer or uncompensated care pools funded by private insurance surcharges (depending on particular state system). Free-riding on society is a great and noble thing, I am sure we all agree. All conservative Republicans and Tea Party would favor that. Let's have an outrageously expensive healthcare system with a lot of free-riding [waving flag].
[12:47:34 pm]: CALLER
So, if I pay the fee, then I can wait until someone gets sick to apply, and I cannot be turned down?
[12:52:24 pm]: CALLER
Are you still there?
[12:53:16 pm]: Diana
yes you can do that if you would like but when you decide to enroll there will be a waiting period to apply
[12:53:35 pm]: CALLER
How long is the waiting period?
[12:54:18 pm]: Diana
I don't know yet you will have to wait until they say that open enrollment then you will be able to apply.
So, apparently smart person, how long is the waiting period?
Are you talking about the banks' franchise to create money out of thin air and then loan it out at interest, or a different type of free-riding on society?
Except for this year, when it extends through the end of March, the open enrollment period in future years is the fourth quarter (Oct 1 - Dec 31).
If you happen to get really sick toward the end of the year, you can sign up and get treated with only a few weeks delay.
But if get a cancer diagnosis in January, you won't get any Obamacare coverage during that calendar year.
Please, provide link to, "only a few weeks," waiting period, and ruling that it is limited to, "the end of the year."
I am not sure in what way you would claim to be refuting my post. We seem to agree, albeit in a not too friendly way -- there is open enrollment and a waiting period. Straight from the ACA website:
"For coverage starting in 2015, the proposed Open Enrollment Period is November 15, 2014–January 15, 2015." So if you are diagnosed with cancer on May 7th, to take a random example, you will need to cover your own medical bills until January 1 of 2015. Meanwhile, you can enroll in Obamacare after November 15, at your leisure. From 2015 onward, everything is covered. Best not to get cancer, or get diagnosed around December 27th.
If you blow out your knee playing BBall on June 7th, it's a while to wait until Obamacare will pay for your surgery. Appendicitis on September 23rd, you will have to free-ride, because you would be dead by the new year. In what way do we disagree? Getting sick in the first two weeks of January is the only scenario that allows you to get instant coverage, apparently.
As for free-riding, I was talking about taking medical care and not paying your bills. That seemed obvious. Not sure how you thought it related to banks.
What is the waiting period? Please provide a hyperlink.
Appendicitis is clealry an emergency and covered under EMTALA.
Did your .gov supervisor tell you this type of fear mongering would be effective on this site?
I don't disagree that you can free-ride for emergency care. Where did I disagree? I recall saying that for the young with negative net worth, free-riding is a smart financial option. Get your emergency care and just don't pay the bill they send. If you are permanent underclass, you have medicaid of course so it's not an issue.
The problem is, If you have $50K in the bank, and $100K in your brokerage account, the hospital will send you a bill for $30K for the appendix operation. If you don't pay it, collectors will sue you, and you have liquid assets to pay (not only the original bill but whatever late fees they please to add.)
The hospital could be nice and let you off for less, and if they know you can't pay the whole amount, they are likely to do so. But if they know you can pay, and they are a for-profit chain like most are nowdays, they won't let you off. Medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy in America, haven't you heard?
This is all so frightening! I better be a good fascist citizen and start transferring my $150,000 savings to United Healthcare at the rate of $940 per month...just to be safe!
Saving that $940 per month to have in case of illness would be unpatriotic, and the IRS will fine me.
Paying your own way is not unpatriotic. No one ever said it was. All I said was, you were wrong with your Fox-meme that Obamacare allows you to sign up when you get sick. You tried to make it sound like going uninsured carries no risk, which is false. Still, you might prefer to take the risk and go uninsured, even if you shed the Fox-goggles and understand the level of risk. I never said otherwise. Arguing with you feels like sixth grade.
My preferred solution is to live expat and pay cash in places where healthcare is not run in the spirit of Somali pirates. I need to come back to the US for a time, and I dread it, because I don't want to pay for Obamacare or lose my savings to a greedy hospital.
Maybe the down arrows are because you come off as a smug twat?
>>My preferred solution is to live expat and pay cash in places where healthcare is not run in the spirit of Somali pirates. I need to come back to the US for a time, and I dread it, because I don't want to pay for Obamacare or lose my savings to a greedy hospital.
Fret not. With 330 documented complete days per year absent from the USA (each day being a full 24 hours, beginning at midnight) , you too can be exempt from the ACA. Keep records.
Now, all you have to worry about is emergency evacuation back to whereever it is you call home, and paying for your "Cuidado de Salud" once your'e there.
https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/open-enrollment-period/
The "waiting period" is loose language, not formally defined anywhere related to ACA, but maybe it refers to the period between when you sign up, and when coverage takes effect on January 1. You can only sign up November 15 to January 15, and coverage takes effect January 1 at the earliest. If you sign up January 3, 2015, it seems there is no"waiting period" but if you sign up on December 1, you gotta wait 30 days.
Holy dark-colored-cookware, Batman!!!! This is the funniest thing I've read all day/week/year.
Is it fair to assume you are a liberal/democrat from your chastising of right wing/Republicans/Tea Partyers? If so, the hypocrisy is beyond comprehension. With 49%+ of the country getting some sort of handout, and the vast majority of those voting democrat, it is amazing that you would find it offensive that someone wanted to avoid the ridiculous wealth transfer/gov't takeover that is Obamacare.
I mean.....never mind.....it's not worth the effort engagin one so obtuse.....keep up the good work and I really do hope you find a successful career in comedy. You get my vote.
BWAHAHAHAHA....I can't stop laughing.
True story, guy I know. Family man, three kids, house in the suburbs, not white but one of the less-bad minorities. Worked for a small business that did not provide health insurance. Had a hemorragic stroke in early 40s, rare but it happens. Two months in the best hospital in Dallas. No one even knows what the bill would have been; of course he couldn't pay it. Probably a half million to the taxpayers of Texas. I am not sure what part you think is so funny and all.
I agree that Obamacare is over-priced, because the whole health care and insurance racket in America is over-priced. But the individual mandate was invented by the Heritage Foundation and put in place in Marxachussetts by no less than Mitt Romney precisely to deal with the situation I just described. A large population of free riders will in aggregate put a lot of medical costs on the taxpayers or other private individuals, which y'all tea partiers are supposed to not like. What part is funny? It's a legitimate issue of public policy, and I might not be the obtuse one.
LMS, you appear to be trying to have a civil discussion, so I'll apologize for the obtuse comment, unless proven otherwise.
What is funny, to me, is that you are chastising people for trying to find a way to avoid paying MORE for Obamacare than they already are. These are people who are already not eligible for subsidies, therefore they are making over 400% of the poverty level. This means that they are already over-taxed everywhere they look (including paying for Obamacare subsidies, current and future) and those tax dollars go to a great degree to handouts for the same people who are getting more subsidies. To call these overtaxed individuals "freeloaders" is just a bit hypocritical.
Moreso, your argument leads one to think that this is a red/blue dem/repub issue. It most certainly is NOT. Both parties are part of the same bought-and-sold corrupt system that pays lip service to certain ideals, all the while they combine to further the interests of big corporations, special interest groups, and lobbyists. This really started to take affect in the early 60's.....right about the exact same time that the healthcare system in the US started becoming the most expensive in the world while giving subpar service. And their answer to too much gov't intervention in what was a well-functioning semi-free market? More gov't.
Oh, and it really is a waste of time to discuss the economics of Obamacare unless you address the fact that, even with the assumptions that have proven to be vastly incorrect, Obamacare was designed from the beginning to implode within 10 years. Any plan that you pay for for 10 years, so that you can get 6 years of benefits, is going to implode in year 11, again even IF the assumptions weren't a complete farce. Because someone told the CBO that the world operates in 10-year snapshots, they were able to lie about the actual long-term true costs. Hopefully, you can do the math.
By free riding I meant taking free medical care and not paying the bill, which then gets passed on to the rest of society. People who buy insurance out of pocket are not free-riders and I never said so. I was trying to chastise people for encouraging free-riding when it should be against their principles.
Obamacare raises a lot of people's health insurance costs for some identifiable reasons:
-- probably the biggest reason is that it bans lifetime limits. Most medical bankruptcy hits people who were insured, but went over their lifetime limit with a serious diagnosis (which is almost guaranteed to happen). By banning lifetime limits, Obamacare forces you to buy more generous and more expensive coverage, which of course you don't need. Unless you need it.
-- it provides free over-priced contraception and other benefits to the Dems' favorite voting block, women.
-- it requires mental health insurance, which is a backdoor way to refund the mental health care system which has been gutted.
You can criticize all of that, but I wish everyone would at least understand it first. The ZH crowd easily runs off into fantasy and nonsense on this subject. People repeat absurd Fox-memes uncritically, and brag that they only pay cash prices and don't need insurance. That is because they are lucky and never had a serious problem; and of course when they hit 65 they will go on Medicare, which is .gov but mysteriously acceptable. The best approach is definitely to just be lucky until you hit 65 and then go on Medicare. That would be my plan if I lived in the US minus Obamacare.
It's mysterious what Obama's personal motives were, but it always seemed to me that Democrat policy wonks involved with Obamacare intended it to blow up the system and bring in a public option or single payer. That's great by me, but probably not by you. That might be where we disagree the most. I just wish all the critics would say what their solution is other than leave the current ridiculous system in place and just be lucky.
I consider many who have so-called health insurance free riders. They consume way more healthcare than necessary and don't take care of themselves to boot. I have opened up magazines and newspapers to see obese people with their fat hands holding out dozens of meds that their doctor told them they needed. People sitting in the doctors office for every little ache and pain.
If these people truly had health insurance and had to pay for most costs out of their pocket, they probably wouldn't be crowding the waiting rooms. Problem is that most Americans have so little income or savings that they really can't afford to care for themselves or their families with out routine care being paid for. And since we have benevolent companies and the US Government subsidizing all of this, the costs keep ratcheting up.
A couple of quick points:
1. Nobody is free riding on this one except those with low income because they are subsidized. If you are subsized, you'd be an idiot not to sign up, unless you are the rare person who does this for moral reasons. If you are not subsidized, you make a decent living or better, which means you are ALREADY PAYING OUT THE A$$ for this and every other freakin entitlement! Those are the people who are discussing how to dodge or reduce the Obamacare premiums. For you to characterize these people as freeloaders is simply not accurate.
2. We acrtually agree that the whole system needs to implode and this might be the catalyst that does it. Won't matter to me as I'll be ex-pat by then, but I will hope the best for friends and family who still buy the "American Dream".
3. Contraceptives have no place in any discussion about "insurance". Nor do many of the other "benefits". Insurance is a way of protecting yourself against negative events by pooling your risk. None of the entire Obamacare discussion, nor the entire dysfunctional system in place before it, have anything to do with "insurance". Until our glorious leaders stop using the term insurance, we all know that every word that comes out of their mouth afterwards is a freakin lie. Sorry, but I won't have that conversation. It ain't about insurance, it's about benefits for those who won't take care of themselves.
4. If we did put a fair and sustainable lealthcare insurance plan in place it has to start with personal responsibility. This means that insurance companies could and should raise raies on you if you make lifestyle decisions that make you a higher risk. If you want to live on fast food, go ahead, but don't evern think about asking me to pay for it. You make your choices, you pay the consequences. End of story. Oh, and this would drive the prices down (and some waistlines down) to the point that there would be a lot more money leftover, like their used to be, for charitably minded people to create foundations for those who are born with some poor conditions. Obamacare's system wants to institutionalize these people.
I'll check back for intelligent responses, but I'm probably done on the subject, unless/until we take the word "insurance" out of any discussion about this country's current and recent healthcare wealth confiscation system.
The answer isn't better "insurance", it's stopping the gov-medical complex from raping all of us with their monopolistic practices. What other industry in the world gets away with not posting prices before a service is rendered, or charging you more for being an American and less if you're a Canuck ? Would you get your oil changed this way ? Why do we put up with it in healthcare ?
I had a cyst removed a few years back; the surgen met me once before the op, did the op, and a post-op. A grand total of probably less than one hour, all three encounters. My bill from him ? $34k. Insurance paid 3.5k. Why, again, do we put up with bullshit like this ?
not white but one of the less-bad minorities
LOL fucking awesome!
"Obamacare uses open enrollment periods, so you can't just sign up when you are sick"
Moot Point. Obamacare isn't health insurance, its a tax!
As soon as your expenses exceed the deductible and premium costs, the insurance companies just increase your premiums to match your expenses! You guys are arging over some trivial point that is meaningless! There is no such thing as health insurance in the US anymore.
"There is no such thing as health insurance in the US anymore."
Sure there is. Both short-term insurance and catastrophic insurance still exist and follow actual real insurance concepts and use real actuarial tables and both are what insurance is supposed to be: a pooling of risk.
I agree with your main point. Obamacare, and the previous healthcare "insurance" that most people had, wasn't insurance. It was assurance and now it is wealth transfer with some serious kickbacks to big corporations.
Off topic, but why did nobody every consider the extra tax on tanning booths to be racist?
I thought the ACA had major restrictions on such affordable plans?
Short-term plans, meaning less than a year, were, by definition, NOT included in the ACA.
Catasttrophic insurance still does exist, but it comes with a very high deductible, although low premiums, and is for those in an unusual risk category. I can promise you that every professional athlete with a million dollar contract has one of these polocies on them, usually purchased by the teram.
I love the daily "Obamacare AssFuck of the Day!". Whats next, killing my againg parents?....
oh wait!
It is called the Liverpool protocol in the NHS.
awesome avatar
take a nightmare tax system and make it even worse. wtg obozo.
Wouldn't a simple flat tax be SO nice?? You should be able to file on a postcard. Of course the tax code is nothing more than a vote buying scheme, so good luck changing it.
There's the direct vote buying, then there's vote buying facilitated by $$'s from the tax code ghost writers on K-street.
You shouldn't have to file at all.
Ahh, the "dream". Remember the days when politicians used to talk about such concepts and the MSM used to do an article or two about it?
When the government passes healthcare reform that requires a new branch to be created within the IRS, you know something ain't right.
what does it mean!
They are winning.
Thank you Obama... I can't wait for your next screw up. Your making the case for all out revolt.
there are many Americans these days that require Enbrel or Humira...($1400-1600 a month is the cost of these drugs)-the health exchanges programs do not cover these......just another "surprise"......
I wonder if medical marijuana would be cheaper and more effective for rheumatoid arthritis?
And lets not even think about the complexity of Medicaid expansion. Eligible up to a 133% of the FPL but if you go over that you aren't. Try telling an employer you can't work overtime because you'll lose your Medicaid eligibility!
And yet, it's the MOST POPULAR option chosen by new enrollees BY FAR.
Don't worry about it too much. We'll all be on Medicaid soon. It was always the real plan, after all.
The Lyin' King and his bosses are just not this stupid. There must be a scenario in the works in which this initial plan fails so that they can "resue" us by forcing totally nationalized healthcare down our throats as a solution. It's just got to be, they can't be this stupid.
Yes, they can be that stupid. But your point is still valid. Shoving nationalized healthcare down our throats was always the plan. They just never dreamed the "interim" solution would fail so quickly, greatly speeding up the timetable. To the point it MIGHT backfire, but I wouldn't count on it. Afterall, Obama could use his "pen and phone" to just raise the Medicaid income eligibility level to $1MM/year and that would be that. Game over.
i think they are
Socialized line up and die healthcare that costs a fortune, doesn't deliver, but will create hundreds of thousands of make work jobs
This means you can get an x-ray every week, but if you require surgery, the government will tell you whether you get to live or die.
Fuck you Barry
Here is another facet: I am a 56 year old surgeon and I am bailing out now, so that some other "Goverment-certified health care provider" can take my job and the associated BS with it.
+1
all of the acreditation fees, licensure, malpractice insurance, not to mention stress, where is the incentive? insurance now costs more and pays less to providers. they will probably phase out MD's and have janitors perform their duties.
you canT overcharge any more
so you are quiting...
bye!
lets see you dedicate 15 years of your life to specialize in a field that now decides on a whim who, when, where, and why you can treat patients. oh, and by the way, we are going to pay you less for it too.
don't matter to me what it pay .... dipping claws into human body fluids every day is just plain nasty.
+100 maskone.
Many of my friends are indeed your age and calling it quits. This had nothing to do with how much one makes. But TPTB above does not understand how the medical profession works anyways. He probably does not know about the 250 grand that goes to the malpractice insurance company before a doctor can even open his doors. Of course we could also talk about the lawsuits as well. The above poster forgets a doctor does not even have to take medicare or medicaid. He just has money envy but fails to think about how he or she could indeed go through all the education and residency requirements to become an MD, not to mention all the time required to become a specialist along with even more loans to learn them.
But most importantly he forgets he too could have become a medical professional, and he chose not too, and anyone making money these days is considered a criminal anyway unless your a government worker, union employeee, or a banker. Typical uninformed commenter that has money envy without putting forth the effort to achieve what you have achieved.
Salute!
Maybe he is also confusing the cost of the healthcare "pie" with the size of the slice the doctor gets.
TWAT
TBTB
Maybe the good doc is quitting to become a nurse so he can make more money. (After expenses, he well might make less than a nurse.)
The losses keep piling up. Here's another facet: I kind of wanted my son to become a surgeon. He's got great hands, he's very smart and he's a very caring person. Now, I don't know what to think. So, here we are...losing at both ends (experienced doctors/new doctors) and in the middle (patients). Sad.
Maybe he should get a mortician's license instead.
It's a growth field, especially if 'single-payer' gives us hospital staffs that resemble the teachers unions.
Morticians ! .....everyone a customer and a happy one !
Happy? At least they don't complain.
You can trace the roots of this law (and everything else Obama has done) to slavery. Without that, America is 95% white and we never vote with a guilty conscience.
Perhaps he could become a drone pilot?
"I am a 56 year old surgeon and I am bailing out now..."
Assuming you want to continue working, can you switch to a medical concierge and bypass this crap?
Canada: Healthcare is paid through general tax revenue. You never see the bill, you don't need an accountant or a tax lawyer.
USA: Fucking crazy complicated mess of bullshit. It's unknown where the money for the subsidies will come from because the government is already insolvent. You're never really sure what things cost until the bill comes, the bill is negotiable, you're not sure which items will be covered by insurance, and you're not sure how much insurance will pay for those items.
Are you implying that Canada is solvent? If so, how do you figure?
Hate. Obama. Care.
Obama's talking to the Senate dem caucus tonight. Going for demand action on expropriation?
Nothing to worry about, in a year zerocare will crash and they'll go to single payer.
Another Extra SCUMMY thing about obamacare is those back room negotiations that mean all taxpayers will all end up paying through the nose not only for the program and increased costs on your private insurance - but also to bail out his buddies who helped him craft this piece of crap program. It's written into the law!
Bailing Out Health Insurers and Helping Obamacaresnip...
"Robert Laszewski—a prominent consultant to health insurance companies—recently wrote in a remarkably candid blog post that, while Obamacare is almost certain to cause insurance costs to skyrocket even higher than it already has, “insurers won’t be losing a lot of sleep over it.” How can this be? Because insurance companies won’t bear the cost of their own losses—at least not more than about a quarter of them. The other three-quarters will be borne by American taxpayers."
MN Health Care Program for Low-Income Workers Faces Deep Deficitsnips...
"An email from the Minnesota Council of Health Plans indicates what 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has been told, that MinnCare could be in the red "around 500 to around 600" million dollars
Dave Feinwachs, former lead attorney at the Minnesota Hospital Association, says "taxpayers will be asked to close a gap that big."
Oh NO, another Obama Care "Maybe" crisis.
911 ! 911 ! 911 !
You could reduce the number of these by simply finding at least 2 individuals who enrolled in ObamaCare which resulted in 2 thing- They kept their doctor and they are now paying less without subisidies than before they enrolled.
I do not think they exists, for if they did, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and the rest of ObamaCare's advocates whould already be doing it for dear leader.
I believe the confusion you are having has more to do with the lies that were told which have now been proven to be lies is the reason that informed individuals no longer trust those who say everything is okoe dopkie now, just trust us and do not watch any media that does not fund the DNC.
So, if I do NOT have an Obamacare policy, I have some other individual policy, and I have sufficient savings to pay the rent and buy groceries and even pay my insurance, BUT my income drops to zero for six months or a year [as has happened several times over the last decade], then to get the subsidy I have to drop my old policy and pick up a new one?
Oy, what a country, sometimes you get the policy, sometimes the policy get you!
Obama care should be a dead horse. If you find you are riding a dead horse, a cowboy knows to get off.
A democrat though will
1-hire contractors to lift the horse and move its leggs, or
2-try different riders, 3-get a bgger horse whip, 4-reclassify the horse as living impaired, 5-rewrite the expected speed standards for dead horses,
6-declare that being a dead horse is good because they have lower overhead and eat less,
or 7-elect the dead horse as president.
The movie 'Idiotocracy' shows the final evolution of obama care medical decline. Hint: do not confuse which probes go where.