German Gold Manipulation Blowback Escalates: Deutsche Bank Exits Gold Price Fixing

Tyler Durden's picture

Germany's blowback against gold manipulation is accelerating. Following yesterday's report that Bafin took a hard line against precious metals manipulation, after its president Eike Koenig said possible manipulation of precious metals "is worse than the Libor-rigging scandal", today the response has trickled down to Germany and Europe's largest bank, Deutsche Bank, which announced that it would withdraw from the appropriately named gold and silver price "fixing", as European regulators investigate suspected manipulation of precious metals prices by banks. As a reminder, Deutsche is one of five banks involved in the twice-daily gold fix for global price setting and said it was quitting the process after withdrawing from the bulk of its commodities business. The scramble away from gold fixing was certainly assisted by the recent first (of many) manipulation expose in the legacy media, when Bloomberg revealed "How Gold Price Is Manipulated During The "London Fix." And sure enough, with Germany already very sensitive to the topic of its gold repatriation, and specifically why it is taking so long, it was only a matter of time before any German involvement in gold manipulation escalated to the very top.

Reuters has more:

"Deutsche Bank is withdrawing its participation in the gold and silver benchmark setting process following the significant scaling back of our commodities business. We remain fully committed to our precious metals business," it said in a statement.

 

In mid-December, German banking regulator Bafin demanded documents from Deutsche Bank under an inquiry into suspected manipulation of benchmark gold and silver prices by banks, the Financial Times reported, citing sources.

 

Bafin declined to comment on Friday, but its President Elke Koenig said the previous day that it was understandable that the topic was attracting widespread concern.

 

"These allegations (about currencies and precious metals) are particularly serious, because such reference values are based - unlike LIBOR and Euribor - typically on real transactions in liquid markets and not on estimates of the banks," she said in a speech

Needless to say, manipulation of the gold market would not be exactly novel to a bank which has also been named in cases related to the sub-prime crisis, credit default swaps, mortgages, tax evasion and a decade-old lawsuit suit brought by the heirs of late media mogul Leo Kirch, who accuse the bank of undermining the business.

Reuters also reports that Deutsche is now actively marketing its gold and silver fixing seats to another LBMA member, however now that the cat is out of the bag on the gold fixing manipulation scheme (the first of many), it is likely that others will seek to follow in Deutsche's footsteps and seek to put as much distance between themselves and the wood-paneled room once located in the Rothschild office on St. Swithin's Lane in London.

We wonder which of these five gentlemen is from Deutsche?

So if everyone exits the London fixing market, what happens then?

"It wouldn't surprise me if the other banks were looking at pulling out as well. Why would they want the aggravation?" said the source, who declined to be named.

 

"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the fixing, what do you have? There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."

Well considering that the fixing process over the years was manipulation pure and simple, those who will lose out are the... manipulators? it would seem rather logical. And speaking of manipulation, if indeed Germany is so keen on breaking the manipulators' back, perhaps it can demand that the pace of its gold returns from the NY Fed and Paris accelerates. It may be surprised at what it finds.

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yrad's picture

Gold Bitchez!!

Master_Blaster's picture

Drive by wire, die by wire......

kliguy38's picture

Too little too late for the Germans...........your gold is GONE..........as is most of the Western sovereigns........including Fort Knox.........IF YOU DON'T HOLD IT.......YOU DON'T OWN IT

BaBaBouy's picture

High HUNDREDS Of Junior GOLD Companies In Canada Alone Have Been DESTROYED By This GOLD MANIP!
I Hope This Finally Escalates Into Daylight, And Payback Is Delivered To These White-Shirts.

insanelysane's picture

I believe what D-Bank is doing is commonly referred to as; Fleeing the scene of the crime.

NotApplicable's picture

The rats may scatter, but they'll never stop being rats. They'll just find a dark alley where they can feast in peace.

NoDebt's picture

Love that room.  Looks like something straight out of 'Trading Places'.  Which one is Mortimer?

nope-1004's picture

Y'all are CRAZY if you think there is gold and silver manipulation.  Bunch of uneducated libertarian freaks.  Just because the big banks rigged LIBOR, manipulate oil futures, hoard aluminum in warehouses, and were a part of the Enron debacle, doesn't mean they rig the only thing that can totally wipe them out:  Gold.

Dr. Bernanke has this under control.  If you would put your faith behind Dr. Bernanke and Dr. Krugman, along with Mr. Timothy Geithner, the mastermind behind fixing the sliding UST sales, you will be set free.

Signed,

MDB

 

Manthong's picture

Some egghead idiot once said about gold:

“Well it’s tradition. Long term tradition”

Well Germany, you better get modern and become progressive fiat fools because your tradition has been sold off to the east and it ain’t coming back.

Chuck Norris's picture

I'm not that mad gold has been artificially suppressed. It allowed me to accumulate it at better prices.  I hope it stays low longer, actually.  I'm just gonna buy more!! 

fonestar's picture

It's great to see that this has gone from "conspiracy theory" back in 2008 to slowly and then quickly escalating into conspiracy fact in the public's conciousness.  The logical conclusion will be that if our money is fake, then everything that has been built around that for the past four decades is also fake.

Chuck Norris's picture

Huh?

Our money is FAKE!?

Oh SHIT!!

Pladizow's picture

Why is Germany now kicking up a stink, while they await the repatriation of their gold?

jimmytorpedo's picture

--Tylers, please make 4Chan's avatar bigger.

--Don't care, I'm gay.

Scarlett's picture

This is getting spread all accros the MSM propaganda machine!  

 

Realtime Coverage   Deutsche Bank Calls for 'Moral Compass' as Probes Deepen Bloomberg  - ‎55 minutes ago‎ Deutsche Bank AG (DBK), Europe's largest investment bank by revenue, said employees who don't put clients first aren't welcome at the company. “If you don't have the necessary moral compass, you can't work for us,” Stephan Leithner, management board ...

Resource Investor


euronews


Economic Times


AFP

GOLD WEBCAST – Gold tests at $1250, Deutsche Bank to retreat from fixings FastMarkets Metal News  - ‎31 minutes ago‎ Gold Price Recovers 1% Weekly Loss as Deutsche Bank Quits London Fix BullionVault  - ‎1 hour ago‎ Deutsche Bank Withdraws From Gold Fixing in Commodities Cuts San Francisco Chronicle  - ‎1 hour ago‎ Deutsche Bank Withdraws From Gold Fixing in Commodities Cuts (1) Businessweek  - ‎2 hours ago‎ Deutsche Bank exits from gold, silver price-fixing Channel News Asia  - ‎2 hours ago‎ Show recently hidden articles In Depth Deutsche Bank Withdraws From Gold Fixing in Commodities Cuts (1) Businessweek  - ‎2 hours ago‎ Deutsche Bank AG will put up for sale its gold and silver fixing membership and stop submitting gold forward offered rates, according to a person familiar with the decision, who asked not be identified because the information isn't public. Photographer: Chris ... Deutsche Bank Withdraws From Gold Fixing in Commodities Cuts San Francisco Chronicle  - ‎1 hour ago‎ (Updates with analyst comment in fourth paragraph.) Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Bank AG will withdraw from participating in setting gold and silver benchmarks in London after Europe's top investment bank joined JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Morgan ... UPDATE 2-Deutsche quits gold price-setting as regulators investigate fix Reuters  - ‎2 hours ago‎ ... Stocks. * German regulator has been investigating gold-fixing process. * Deutsche move comes after scaling back commodity business. * Others may follow Deutsche's lead - source. * Deutsche, rivals embroiled in probes of FX, interest rates. By Eric Onstad. Deutsche quits gold price-setting as regulators investigate fix euronews  - ‎3 hours ago‎ LONDON (Reuters) – Deutsche Bank <DBKGn.DE> will withdraw from gold and silver benchmark price setting, it said on Friday, as European regulators investigate suspected manipulation of precious metals prices by banks. Germany's largest bank and ...
BoNeSxxx's picture

Smells like a limited hangout to me.

If they are feeding this little truth 'nugget' to the masses, there is an iceberg below the surface that has them all shitting Twinkies.

Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

David Cameron has some explaining to do about the rig the LBMA has been running:

http://www.safehaven.com/article/32394/for-prime-minister-cameron-re-lbm...

Gief Gold Plox's picture

And so, it begins. I wonder if we'll look upon today as the begining of the end, one day...

BellyBrain's picture

Remember folks, ALL money is fake.  It is a fiction that men invented to enslave everyone else. Doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, fiat paper, bitcoins or seashells. 

Aside from some small intrinsic value of (some) of the above, these things are only worth what we all THINK they are worth. 

Only when we understand that money is inherently WORTHLESS will we begin to see the first dawning rays of freedom.

Supernova Born's picture

"ALL money is fake"???

BULLSHIT.

Propaganda for the weak-minded.

Gold, bitchez.

 

StillSilence's picture

Remember folks, ALL money is fake.

 

I'm not sure about that. The concepts of ownership and trading time/energy/goods are very real to me. Becuase those exist, the idea of money makes a great deal of sense.

The problems come in when money is selected for and forced upon people through taxation, particularly when it is not based on any real item of production and worse yet when it is pure debt. Obligating people into a system of loss is the real or bigger issue. 

All people should be allowed to transact however they wish. Currencies could be issued in anything and anyone could participate or not. If it isn't fully redeemable then it's a scam, and even if it is, it's a risk. I think naturally precious metals would be the most used.

Let people keep what they earn and allow truly free markets to do what they can in every area. The only need for any gov and taxation should be to service very basic general needs of the public and has to be fully transparent.

PEOPLE are supposed to make up the government/taxing entity and therefore see all of it's secrets, not the other way around.

new game's picture

looks real to me. just handed a fine young lady a franklin and walked out with a bunch of supplies.

hmmm. haven't done that latly with an eagle...

tmosley's picture

"ALL money is fake"

This is why we can't have nice things.

KickIce's picture

Good point, even if you have PMs and the other party refuses to sell, say food, you are screwed.

Gief Gold Plox's picture

And so, it begins. I wonder if we'll look upon today as the begining of the end, one day...

Again Friday, why do they always do this shit on Friday, when all the coin shops around here close already at 1P.M.? Oh, wait...

Colonel Klink's picture

Did anyone catch the little phrase "benchmark setting process"?  Sounds like a fancier wording for price fixing and manipulation.  Kind of like disinflation or many of the other bullshit phases used to cover up the real meaning.

secretargentman's picture

Shitting Twinkies?  I see a business opportunity!

jomama's picture

just drag it into google images, duh.

HoofHearted's picture

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Is somebody going to send ships over here just like the French did when Jacques Rueff oustmarted the Americans in the 60s and early 1970s? Tricky Dick did what he could, but old Rueff was sure pissed and got de Gaulle to offer to help in the acquisition of "their" gold that they had been trading dollars for...but this is a different situation. No gold window is closing. This is just outright theft. People have gone to war over less. I'm just saying...

CheapBastard's picture

Bankers shouldn't try to fix what ain't broke. Let the markets decide what gold, cars, houses, etc are worth for a change. Lets try something new...give markets a chance.

ejmoosa's picture

But if we do that, then we may not value things the way the experts do.  That's gonna wreak havoc upon their long term models....

FreedomGuy's picture

That is the essence of central planning and even communism.

The obvious conundrum ignored by the "experts" is that the true market price is needed as a reference point. Once you begin to destroy the markets you actually lose the ability to establish any price connected to the real world.

Almost Solvent's picture

Hence the need to keep their fat fingers on PMs.

 

 

new game's picture

news flash to all optimists-still a fucking charade!!!

so somehow the bankers all got morality-fucken delusion bigtime on this site.

aminorex's picture

"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the fixing, what do you have? There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."

 

Allow me to rephrase:

 

"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the gold, what do you have?  There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."


aminorex's picture

"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the fixing, what do you have? There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."

 

Allow me to rephrase:

 

"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the gold, what do you have?  There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."


pFXTim's picture

A very cogent observation -- something I'd like to know as well.

boogerbently's picture

I first thought our manipulation of gold was to pay back China for buying our debt (then diluting the value of the USD).

Now, I think it was to pay everyone back who thought their gold was being "safely stored" here.

Rubbish's picture

Ok but when is the next smackdown?

 

My trigger finger is loaded now and she looks to EXPLODE at any minute.

 

Fuck it, on my way to the LCS, better to have had, than never fucked the bastards.

Manthong's picture

William Kaye on KWN said he would not be surprised if the paper was pushed down to the 10 handle.

In that same "tremendous" interview he mentioned China added over 2,400 tons last year..  and that is more than mine production.

Rock On Roger's picture

Is bitcoin fake also?

 

Stack On

fonestar's picture

Of course Bitcoin is not fake.  And if Bitcoin continues to act like a fiat fear index it can help regulate governments and banks from further market manipulation.

Jack Napier's picture

Define fake. Let's use substantive terms.

Is BitCoin tangible? Yes and No. Technically no, most aren't, and those that are lose whatever intrinsic properties BTC has for real-time global transactions by leaving cyberspace.

Does BitCoin have an underlying asset backing it? No.

Do BitCoins have intrinsic value? Yes and no. The inherent properties have value for the services they provide, but on the goods side of the house there is no intrinsic value. The difference between this situation and precious metals is that the intrinsic value only exists as long as there is infrastructure to support it where as the intrinsic value of metals is non-negatable.

Was BitCoin created from nothing like fiat currency? Yes.

Can BitCoin clones be reproduced by anyone with the know how? Yes.

Does the lack of central planning in BitCoin protect it from market manipulation? No. As the only truly free market it is at the mercy of whoever has the biggest wallet.

I would add the the only reason BTC has taken over the role of the fiat fear index is because people at large are ignorant about precious metals which have always fulfilled that role until recent history.

The powers that be are likely very pleased that BitCoin is around to steer people away from their achilles heel, metals, real money, the only thing that can truly bring them down, and that people are instead focused on something that requires their dependency on the system instead of being free from it with untraceable metals. BitCoins are traceable. All network traffic is traceable, even TOR. There are pesky things known as router logs.

fonestar's picture

I would add the the only reason BTC has taken over the role of the fiat fear index is because people at large are ignorant about precious metals which have always fulfilled that role until recent history.

 

What a load.  Try and smuggle a few thousand ounces of gold or silver accross the US/Canada border and then tell me how "ignorant" Bitcoiners are.  Obviously, Bitcoin has thousands of advantages over physical bullion.  And if you think that TPTB created Bitcoin that just goes to expemplify your own ignorance.  

superflex's picture

If I had 1,000 ounces I obtained legally, there's no need to smuggle it.  Just declare it and move on.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5052-eng.html

You are one shady troll.

fonestar's picture

In an economic collapse scenario, that 1,000 ounces you obtained legally can become illegal from the time you leave your house to the time you make it to your destination.  And the whole concept of "smuggling" and "money laundering" rests upon the morally reprehensible idea that government somehow has the right to tell you what you can do with your money!

Yet another Zerohead poster who cannot think like a crypto-anarchist or criminal.

tvdog's picture

And the whole concept of "smuggling" and "money laundering" rests upon the morally reprehensible idea that government somehow has the right to tell you what you can do with your money!

Hear, hear!

Jack Napier's picture

I never said BitCoiners were ignorant. I said people at large. You assume that BitCoin is rising in price because of "BitCoiners", which is not the case. As I stated the biggest wallets are responsible for price action. The rest of us are along for the ride. If people at large were not ignorant then the metals would be the fiat fear index, and that doesn't imply that their ignorance has caused BitCoin to rise to prominence. So then I think we can actually say BitCoin is not a fiat fear index, but rather a speculator's paradise. It is your wishful thinking that it has supplanted the role of metals, and I must say the shill arguments against you are gaining traction in my mind. Also, anyone trying to cross a border isn't staying off the grid, so you missed the point there as well. As far as collapse scenario, do you really thinking anyone will be enforcing the laws outside major hubs? It will be every man for himself, and your BitCoins will be unretrievable unless you want to be escorted by the gestapo to a sanctioned Internet access point.