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China Building Second Aircraft Carrier, Two More In The Pipeline

Tyler Durden's picture




 

For months, rumors have been floating that China is building a second aircrafit carrier. It is not a fact. Reuters cites Chinese and Hong Kong media reports that China is building its second aircraft carrier, which is expected to take six years. While it is constructing this one, China plans to build at least two more, as it aims to have four aircraft carriers in the near future.

As a reminder, the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning - a Soviet-era ship bought from Ukraine in 1998 and re-fitted in a Chinese shipyard - has long been a symbol of China's naval build-up, and recently saw its maiden voyage in the South China Sea when in a clear demonstration of naval force, it crossed through the Taiwan straits. The Liaoning successfully executed more than 100 tests, including those of its combat systems, during drills in the disputed South China Sea last month. The exercises off the coast of Hainan Island marked not only the first time China had sent a carrier into the South China Sea but the first time it had maneuvered with the kind of strike group of escort ships U.S. carriers deploy, according to regional military officers and analysts.

However, since the Lioning was a retrofit and not China's own creation, the country's navy has been scrambling to get beyond the ridicule it can only "reverse engineer" its crowning ship. Hence the push for a second one.

From Reuters:

After two decades of double-digit increases in the military budget, China's admirals plan to develop a full blue-water navy capable of defending growing economic interests as well as disputed territory in the South and East China Seas.

 

Successfully operating the 60,000-tonne Liaoning is the first step in what state media and some military experts believe will be the deployment of locally built carriers by 2020.

 

In comments carried on Chinese news websites, Wang Min, the Communist Party boss of the northeastern province of Liaoning, where the first carrier is based, said the second carrier was being built in the port city of Dalian.

 

Its construction would take about six years, and in future China would have a fleet of at least four carriers, Wang told members of the province's legislature on Saturday, the reports added.

 

Dalian is the port where the existing carrier was re-fitted for use by the Chinese navy.

Of course, the parallels to the cold war build up of nuclear weapons between the US and the USSR are quite obvious making one wonder if the same strategy is in play once more, especially when one considers that the US itself is also building three Ford-class supercarriers, the CVN-78, 79 and 80.

Finally, as we showed before, here are leaked photos of the second aircraft carrier in construction from China Defense.

 

Finally for those curious about more than just China's nascent aircraft carrier fleet, here are some additional maps from the most recent Congressional report on Chinese military developments:

 

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Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:47 | 4345724 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

To add to the reading list links:

Ominous warning: Admiral concedes U.S. losing dominance to China

Commander of Obama’s Asia pivot eyes military posturing by China

"Our historic dominance that most of us in this room have enjoyed is diminishing, no question,” Adm. Locklear, chief of U.S. Pacific Command, said Wednesday at a naval conference in Virginia."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/16/us-military-dominance-pa...

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:03 | 4345755 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Anything that is big, visible, and slow in a battle circa 2020,

  will have a half life of about 30 seconds.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:16 | 4345778 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

Exactly - isn't it just a big target?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:26 | 4345798 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

No, it is not just a big target - it is, at least, quite an ample distraction. From what would be a question that could turn out to be worthwhile ...

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:41 | 4345824 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Then there is India about to arm itself to counter China and the weapons race is back on in a big way!

And we are the ones who gave them the technology and money to build up their military!

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:09 | 4345867 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Ghost carrier to go with its Ghost cities.  China will go belly up before it is finished.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:59 | 4346127 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

If they are building another carrier, it's the wrong design to be of very good value.

 

The carriers that you see with "ramps" to launch the planes are more defensive in nature as they can only launch one aircraft at a time, even the russians told the chinese that the carrier they were buying was for "fleet defense" purposes. Not to wage a first strike war.

 

Compare to the US carriers with the ability to launch 4 planes simultaneously with the catapult system and the difference is even moar apparent.

 

Plus the chinese carriers are non-nuke, which puts them in the "local" range.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:38 | 4346238 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

It's kind of funny they say China doesn't want to be seen as only "reverse engineering" its carriers.  The first one wasn't reverse engineered - It was purchased from somebody else and retrofitted.  The ones they are builing now are reverse engineered.  How much original thought could be going into these things with their Russion carrier operational for such a short period of time with no actual combat experience?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 23:45 | 4347381 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Are you saying that the Chinese are currently building catamaran carriers now, or just threatening to?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:45 | 4346790 css1971
css1971's picture

One of the cultural differences between the Chinese and Americans is Americans think about the next quarter. The Chinese think about the next decades.

China is building power. This means they are building the infrastructures and experience necessary to build and operate these systems successfully. Hasn't the last 20 years shown anything? There will be 2nd generation and a third, and they will try them out and alter strategies around them.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:21 | 4346749 Stuck on Zero
Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:50 | 4345838 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

oh come on...so they have one more boat.....if anyone in dc was really they would limit the hundreds of thousands of asians flooding in from abroad..but they aren't concered so my guess is no one in dc cares and they don't consider 'them' a threat.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:12 | 4345872 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The career politicians and elite of Washington consider the Chinese a real threat.  That is why they have purchased hundreds of thousands of acres in Uruguay. 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:39 | 4345908 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

The career politicians and elite of Washington consider Fukishima a real threat.  That is why they have purchased hundreds of thousands of acres in Uruguay. - Fixed that for you

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:15 | 4346092 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

The career politicians and elite of Washington consider the American people to be a real threat. That is why they are arming city police with military-grade weapons and printing money for Homeland Security.

 

 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 21:37 | 4347147 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

kick ass comment

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:26 | 4346199 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

For use against a first world nation it is indeed a big target.

For showing the flag, beating the snot out of third world countries, and protecting your subjugated resource colonies, they work well.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 20:29 | 4346992 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Any carrier - it's just a big target and nothing more.
The next to each such a big target, always have swim two silent submarines-killers.
With love from Russia, Ivan.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:46 | 4347472 akak
akak's picture

.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:23 | 4345797 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

You are correct except for the year 2020. That event occurred in 1982 during the Falklands War. The British lost several ships to cruse missiles. They would have lost more if the Argentinians had more delivery Aircraft. The Chinese Aircraft Carriers don't stand a chance while we have Submarines that can launch Cruse Missiles while still submerged. When the current contracts to build American Aircraft Carriers expire that will be the end of those classes of ships. There have been epic battles in the Pentagon to cancel the Carrier currently being built and the last one listed to be built in the current contract. 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:59 | 4345955 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Aircraft carrier = future habitat for creatures living in the benthic zone.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:02 | 4345969 msamour
msamour's picture

I would have to disagree with you. the missiles the Argentinians used were French Exocet missiles. The high success rate of the missiles surprised the British. After a couple of weeks the British threatened the Frech with economic sanctions if they did not gave the British with all the technical specs for the missiles. The French obliged, and then they were only able to develop defense techniques after that.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/28/thatcher-exocet-missiles-falkl...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9767736/Thatchers-blister...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZu8bvxJs4

 

There are numerous accounts of exocets being fired at the British.

 

Regards.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:20 | 4346019 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Exocet Cruse Missiles are ancient technology. Even the current Tomahawk Cruse missiles are obsolete. If they can build a huge B-2 Stealth Bomber that can't be seen by Radar and so is immune to detection by antiaircraft weapons how hard it is going to be to build a much smaller Stealth Cruse Missile? A Deck Watch 'might' spot it a couple of hundred meters out but by that time it's too late. Before the Deck Watch can even report it that missile will have already penetrated the hull or entered the main exhaust stack to explode and rip the guts out of the ship.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:08 | 4346156 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

The "stealth" technology as applied to aircraft is only to lower the radar profile with respect to modern radars and is easily defeated with old-school long waver radar system. A US F117 was shot down years ago with an old-school russian radar system in 1999. The old long wave russian radars easily defeat the F22 and B2. The stealth programs are simply to fund large US companies that have jobs programs in every state. No practicle military application, just money transfers.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:12 | 4346346 msamour
msamour's picture

Earlier you erroneously stated the Argentinians used cruise missiles against the British. I was simply correcting your statement. Not arguing on the efficiency of Exocet missiles.

It helps to know your history a little if you are going to make arguments. Argentinians never had cruise missiles...

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:37 | 4346233 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Very important message to China - DO NOT use this carrier to transport your growing golden hoard - boats and gold are a deadly mixture.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:41 | 4346676 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

Something the Spaniards know something about!

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:15 | 4346351 dtwn
dtwn's picture

Yup, especially when the current crop of anti-ship missiles are pretty effective (theoretically).  The Russian P-800 Yakhonts will only become more advanced in the next decade.  To say nothing of the Iskander.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:43 | 4346430 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Exactly, and nobody knows that better than the Americans who have fought 41 wars since 1950 and won just 16 of them.

It's actually an appalling track record for a country that makes up 45% of all the military spending in the world.

Losing outright to countries such as French Indochina, Czechoslovakia, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, Cambodia and Somalia.

China doesn't need aircraft carriers. A few AK47's is usually enough to best the efforts of the Fifth Fleet (or it has been in the past).

The single biggest advantage anyone can have in a war is not technology, or manpower, or hardware. It's fighting in your homeland.

No amount of blood and treasure and hi-tech wizardry can best an ingenious population who don't want you there. It's practically impossible.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is delusional.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:20 | 4346645 spinone
spinone's picture

Depends on how you define winning.  Did corporations protect their interests and make profits?  Did the owners of those corporations enrich their own sons while sending other's to their deaths?

The who are we really fighting against, who is fighting against us, and who is really winning?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:06 | 4346728 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Yeah, that may have been the case until IR sweeping drones that can strike from 20000 feet came along.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 19:45 | 4346917 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

So what, depopulate the entire country?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 06:27 | 4347678 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

 

Drones have not been on the winning side of any war, ever.

 

Look at Al Qaeda (guys with AK47's), the US killed their incompetent leadership with drones in 2011 and they were replaced with Abu Bakr Al-Baghdaddi (making Al Qaeda stronger) and now Al Qaeda is holding more territory than ever before. Even before 2001.

 

Aircraft Carriers? Drones? Satellites? Cruise missiles? Spy Planes? Warplanes? All worthless.

History will tell you that you cannot win a war unless you are prepared to occupy the land you conquer.

 

If you don't occupy the land afterwards you surrender it. Thus rendering all of your efforts utterly futile.

 

The US has spent trillions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of men and women, warping it's own society in the process and even resorting to spying on their own people. And what has it all achieved? The enemy has actually grown in strength.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:10 | 4346626 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

A nuclear attack submarine or even a good silent conventional boat eats big carriers for lunch. In wartime they are must haves if you are fighting weak powers, against any modern force, they are big slow targets. The faster they steam, the louder they are and the easier to find and sink. A sub does not enen need to close to topredo range. Stand off anti ship missiles can pop up out of the water giving only a short lead time till target. IN the USN, our Submarines made attack after attack against USN Carriers in all forms of naval exercises. Every submarine sailor looked at the Carrier's ASW defenses as weak and vulnerable. China may be pssing money away, but for minor wars, the Carrier would be a real asset to power projection, and that is why they are being built, and why the USN keeps so many. In a real Naval war, against modern enemies with real submaine fleets, the Carriers would be used with great caution. If at all!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:22 | 4347433 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The USA and USN is a joke now.  Keep carrying the water for Obama's Pentagon and MIC who put him in power - see Lester Crown aka General Dynamics. A big Obama, McCain and AIPAC supporter.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:30 | 4345804 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

China will need something else to go along with those things.

A Chinese IRS.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:04 | 4345973 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

And a Chinese Greenspan please.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:43 | 4346249 AngelEyes00
AngelEyes00's picture

While the US pisses it's massive defense funds away on being in a billion places at once just in case someone stubs their toe (in a location of monetary value to the US), China is building a massive war machine and quickly driving towards the number one economic power in the world.  Give them another 10 years and we'll be the weaker ants.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:48 | 4345730 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Obama will protect us.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:43 | 4346681 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

with his golf clubs

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:50 | 4345736 Vet4RonPaul
Vet4RonPaul's picture

China is smart to build a blue-water navy because anyone that doesn't have one (and only the USA has had one since WWII) is at the mercy of those that do.  The ones with a blue-water navy can shut down the sea lanes and with it about 80% of international commerce.  Now, it will take Chine many decades and a few small wars to change a collection of ships into a blue-water navy.  Don't be surprised if the USA doesn't allow this to happen without a significant price.  Finally, the USD should continue to be the world reserve currency as long as it contols the sea lanes (and thus commerce).  True story.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:00 | 4345749 reload
reload's picture

So what you are saying is: If a nation has no love of the USD it needs a credible blue water fleet.

I dont dissagree.

A busy decade ahead for Naval shipyards in China and Russia then.

Should be good news for lovers of the US MIC also.

Just what the world needs - more destructive / power projecting toys for the military.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:03 | 4345757 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Do you really need to shut down shipping lanes if your country is the originating location of all shipping?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:52 | 4345842 Solarman
Solarman's picture

Um, yeah.  You only get paid if your stuff arrives safely to its customers.  Plus China needs imported oil, material, and food.

 

Plus America already has Mach 5 stealth unmanned jets.  This carrier and any other ship is toast. Anywhere in the world in 4 hours or less.

 

Plus that spy Shuttle is up in space doing who knows what to the Chinese and Russian satelites.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:18 | 4346016 frenzic
frenzic's picture

upvoted the spy shuttle

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 21:18 | 4347111 silvermail
silvermail's picture

If you are talking about the war with Russia, then forget about satellites. In case of war with Russia, a minute after it began, in orbit there is nothing left except rubble and debris.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:24 | 4347439 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wow.  ZH is filled with Obama-Pentagon and Obama-MIC stooges.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:18 | 4345784 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Very bullish for the financial markets. As this is something that is to occur in the future then I assume the big banks have figured a way to securitize them and will be selling CCBS's (Chinese Carrier backed Securities) soon. The derivatives that these produce should be simply awesome! And the fact that these war machines will only increase the chance that we blow ourselves to hell should only enhance their desirability, as that is ultimately the financial industry's goal.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:32 | 4345812 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

China's apparent answer to global overpopulation.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:59 | 4345853 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

That is the old way.

It will come down to who is willing to sink who's ship.

After that the nukes come out.  Think the Chinese won't nuke Hawaii?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:15 | 4345873 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Do we have any proof that the Chinese nukes actually work?  Or that they can put a ballistic mi.ssle on target (with or without GPS?)

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:50 | 4346030 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Common shipping containers would seem an easier form of delivery.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:51 | 4345738 giggler321
giggler321's picture

Great floating deck for sun beds but since it has no air craft capable of using it; it's just a large target.  When they actually get around to designing a tow line system to stop planes rolling off the end during landing - then you can call it an aircraft carrier - ofcourse by then it's probably to late.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:04 | 4345760 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

It'll make a great reef when it sinks upon its launch. Think of all the aquatic species it will help!

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:34 | 4345814 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Given how China pollutes their cities, I can only imagine the amount of trash those floating rigs will pump into the South China Sea and Pacific.

Don't worry China, knowing your record, the pollution those things produce in their wake will make anyone surrender, tuna fish included.

 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:48 | 4347476 akak
akak's picture

Funny how the blueprints for this aircraft carrier don't include any latrines.

Alas, alas, three thousand times two squatting Chinese navymen alas, I guess when you're afloat on the open ocean, the world is your roadside.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:26 | 4345801 MopWater
MopWater's picture

I guess you didnt know the F35 JSF has vertical takeoff capabilities.  Means catapaults and tow lines are becoming old technology.  Id give it 2 years before they gave VTF capable aircraft, if they dont have them already.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:43 | 4345916 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

The problem with using VTO is that your ordinance and fuel loads are dramatically reduced.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:30 | 4346216 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

They're more for short takeoff/verticle or arrested landing.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:52 | 4345740 The Black Bishop
The Black Bishop's picture

Not sure why they bother with the carriers. Probably mostly for show.

 

What they -should- be focusing on is superfast, low profile rocketplatforms for SA and SS purposes. What can be more anoying than a relatively inexpensive (in military terms) ship with extreme damage capability in the form of Sunburn antiship missiles or anti aircraft systems.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:01 | 4345751 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

"China confirms hypersonic missile carrier test"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/us-china-missile-idUSBREA0F03R...

 

"The statement confirmed a report by the online Washington Free Beacon newspaper that the hypersonic glide vehicle (HGV) was detected flying at 10 times the speed of sound over China last week."

 

"The Free Beacon said the test made China the second country after the United States to have successfully tested a hypersonic delivery vehicle able to carry nuclear warheads at a speed above Mach 10 - or 12,359 kilometers per hour (7,675 mph)."

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:02 | 4345754 reload
reload's picture

Russia seems to be concentrating on very stealthy submarines & next generation missiles.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:22 | 4345794 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Very stealthy second strike capability ...

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 10:58 | 4345747 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

If aircraft carriers are so effective, why do we have 900+ military bases around the world? 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:32 | 4345810 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Because we can (until the money to pay for them runs out). Foreign Military bases are like that huge bag of plastic green army men we played with when we were kids. Were we ever satisfied with a single huge bag of green army men? Hell NO! Every time we went to the grocery store with Mom we would grab another huge bag of green army men and stuff it in the buggy.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:17 | 4346011 max2205
max2205's picture

A Jobs class I Carrier?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:13 | 4346347 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I wonder if in China they have bags of red army men?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:41 | 4345822 Matt
Matt's picture

For the spaces in-between.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:02 | 4345748 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

"America has special responsibilities as the world's only superpower" Obama, Jan 17, 2014

It is strange that China should be investing in aircraft carriers as they are increasingly vulnerable to the new hypersonic missiles.  In any case, China and Russia will be joining forces together to defend against the world's only superpower.  Joint exercises in the Mediterranean  seems to be a message to NATO.

 

China and Russia may hold joint naval drill in the Mediterranean

Russia and China have agreed to conduct a joint naval drill in the Mediterranean Sea, a Russian media report cites the Defense Ministry. The countries’ fleets are currently involved in an intl operation to escort the Syrian chemical weapons stockpile.

The Defense Ministry said on Sunday that group of Russian naval officers deployed onboard a heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Peter the Great" visited Chinese frigate Yancheng. 

“On board the Chinese patrol ship, Russian sailors discussed with their foreign counterparts the possibility of joint tactical exercises in the Mediterranean Sea. Under the agreement, such exercises can be carried out in the near future in an effort to improve the level of operational compatibility between Russian and Chinese warships during joint operations in the eastern Mediterranean,”
 the statement from the Ministry of Defense said. 

The main aim of the joint naval exercise would be to increase the level of operational cooperation between the two navies designed to tackle terrorist threats and improve joint rescue operations at sea, the Ministry explained. 

http://rt.com/news/russia-china-naval-drills-838/

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:43 | 4345829 Matt
Matt's picture

Can a Mach 10 missle dodge a light speed pulse LASER? I suspect improved Skyguard with pulse LASERs could bring the advantage back to defense for a while.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:55 | 4345847 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Depends on the reflective/ablative capabilities you build into the missile.  

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:57 | 4345851 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Yes it can, if it's raining.

I think laser defenses are easy to defeat.

Aerosol dispenser, ablative armor, superconductive armor, or simply ... decoys.

A carrier is like a floating castle, and is just as releevant to modern warmaking as castles are.

But what if these carriers are intended for enemies that are not very modern?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:15 | 4346005 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

A retroreflector would be interesting.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:30 | 4347445 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Obama's Pentagon and Obama's USSA military become a joke like Obama's USSA.  Save us the Obama-Pentagon propaganda.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:06 | 4345765 Smuckers
Smuckers's picture

Time to send in Jack Ryan.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:08 | 4345766 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

If it's like all the other crap they build it's a reef waiting to happen.  Fuck the US Navy, Fuck the Chinese Navy.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:10 | 4345769 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Of the 200,000 tons of steel used in the construction of the WTC towers, approximately 185,000 tons was 'recovered', and the majority of that was sold to China.

I think I see the second sky lobby from WTC1 in the pictures (but I can't be sure).

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/EricChen.shtml

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

Armies across the world always plan for the NEXT war using the weapons from the PREVIOUS one. It has been, and always will be, a fact.

The Chinese government is obviously 'creating jobs' in the public sector (which, if I were an Obama supporter, I would applaud). I mean, look at the number of workers the government has hired to build these! I wonder if they are incorporating defenses from hypersonic missiles...

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:22 | 4345793 Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

Broken window fallacy- unproductive investment that has no use unless it's at war.  For what else could you use an aircraft carrier?

On the other hand, this carrier will probably be used against China's own people when they attempt to sail away.  So I guess that could be consider another "productive use".

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:46 | 4345831 Matt
Matt's picture

The aircraft carrier provides deterence, and enables enforcement of soveriegnty claims. You could also use it to assist in humanitarian aid missions after a disaster.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 20:39 | 4347013 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Carriers are great against weaker foes, but they also serve as great first-strike weapons (although the striking aircraft may not have a ship to return to...)

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:31 | 4347448 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wouldn't the Thermite have compromised that steel?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:13 | 4345772 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

This reminds me of this other vessels, called "dreadnoughts", everyone was so excited about not so long ago ...

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:49 | 4345836 Matt
Matt's picture

If the Bismarck had jet drive instead of a rudder, things might have gone pretty differently. Besides, an aircraft carrier is a fair bit more flexible. 6 years to construct seems a bit much, though.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:19 | 4345780 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Aircraft Carriers are great for intimidating countries that have no air power of technology.  They worked great for the USA as a tactic in WWII, and later as a platform that could not be touched offshore, including Korea, Vietnam and so on.  So they should work well, short term, for China in Asia and maybe along the African coast.

But they are sitting ducks, and if the USA is smart they will see them as obsolete technology, and build missiles like Russia does to blow them out of the water if they wish.  \

China wants aircraft carriers like they wanted US treasuries twenty years ago.  Keep them China, they are yours.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:22 | 4345792 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> like they wanted US treasuries twenty years ago.

I think their carriers will have some residual scrap value, unlike their treasuries.

 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:19 | 4345789 Marley
Marley's picture

Forget China as a threat.  We've the "free market" that is killing the western society.  Examples, your poor financials that have no social life, take drugs to cope with their stress or creating financial weapons to destroy peoples lives for profit?  

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/w-virginia-co-tied-to-spill-files-chapt...

This company (person) gets to restructure so that it can endanger more people for profit.  

If some idiot software writer hacks government files and releases them to the press, he's hunted down as a threat to national security and labelled a terorist.  If a idiout banker writes htf code for profit, that's OK

if some individual places a bomb in Times Square they're hunted down as a national spectical as terriorists but if a company ignores safety practices that ends up killing people, their hailed as good business role models for Texas.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/texas-explosion/

Something is wrong here.  Oh, and it is good that we haven't had rain all year, because god wanted it.

 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:21 | 4345791 RiverDrifter
RiverDrifter's picture

it is not a fact or it is now a fact?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:22 | 4345796 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

yes

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:25 | 4345799 Phillycheesesteak
Phillycheesesteak's picture

How do they "build" a second one when they haven't built their first one?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:35 | 4346232 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

They have one carrier, right? They are building their second carrier, right? The word play is absolutely crazy, huh.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:30 | 4345807 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Long Yuan.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:43 | 4345825 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Long yuan silver. Avast yee scallywag

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:37 | 4345817 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Intel Brief USSA...

If you can't see them on radar, just look for a floating line of instant noodle bowls and chopsticks on the open sea.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:41 | 4345819 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Time for a rousing chorus from the Gilbert&Sullivan satirical operetta "HMS Pinafore"

http://www.letssingit.com/cgi-exe/am.cgi?a=www_player&special_id=qhk7x3g

"When I was A Lad"

Sir Joseph.
When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door.

Chorus.
He polished up the handle of the big front door.

Sir Joseph.
I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
He polished up that handle so carefullee,
That now he is the ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Sir Joseph.
As office boy I made such a mark
That they gave me the post of a junior clerk.
I served the writs with a smile so bland,
And I copied all the letters in a big round hand.
Chorus.
He copied all the letters in a big round hand.

Sir Joseph.
I copied all the letters in a hand so free,
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
He copied all the letters in a hand so free,
That now he is the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Sir Joseph.
In serving writs I made such a name
That an articled clerk I soon became;
I wore clean collars and a brand-new suit
For the pass examination at the Institute.

Chorus.
For the pass examination at the Institute.

Sir Joseph.
That pass examination did so well for me,
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
That pass examination did so well for he,
That now he is the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Sir Joseph.
Of legal knowledge I acquired such a grip
That they took me into the partnership.
And that junior partnership, I ween,
Was the only ship that I ever had seen.

Chorus.
Was the only ship that he ever had seen.

Sir Joseph.
But that kind of ship so suited me,
That now I am the ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
But that kind of ship so suited he,
That now he is the ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Sir Joseph.
I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament.
I always voted at my party's call,
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.

Chorus.
He never thought of thinking for himself at all.

Sir Joseph.
I thought so little, they rewarded me
By making me the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
He thought so little, they rewarded he
By making him the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

Sir Joseph.
Now landsmen all, whoever you may be,
If you want to rise to the top of the tree,
If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool,
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.

Chorus.
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.

Sir Joseph.
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!

Chorus.
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!

http://www.letssingit.com/cgi-exe/am.cgi?a=www_player&special_id=qhk7x3g

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:47 | 4345832 Space Animatoltipap
Space Animatoltipap's picture

While building this carrier the Chinese take control of the islands they claim and the US will do nothing about it. 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:46 | 4345833 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

It's not all about the US.

In a post-US-hedgemony world, these carriers would be extremely useful for projecting power in east Asia, Australia, and India.

An area that contains more than half the human race.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:49 | 4346282 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bingo!

A super-power needs to protect its supply chain lanes from all enemies -- conventional and asymmetric, other super-power(s) and regional powers. 

And let's not overlook the likelihood of countries being used to run interference (proxy wars) between super-powers.  E.g., Japan, Korea, KSA.  In which case it comes back to an economic war (in its heart).

No resources, no economy, no reserve currency.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:56 | 4346710 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

They've done pretty good up till now without the aircraft carriers or the drag on their economy of bloated "defense" spending.

Looks like they've been suckered in by their own defense complex to provide new military liabilites..... carriers need airplanes and a whole flotilla of support ships to protect and maintain them. They have also provided more fodder for their counterparts in the west to push the fear button and up the ante.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:25 | 4346753 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

They've done pretty good up till now, because Americans are not Romans.

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:52 | 4345841 yogibear
yogibear's picture

China is like Japan im the 1930s, except smarter.

Unlike the 1930s, the US didn't import the majority of it's goods and technology.

If China is smart enough it will Help DC and the Federal Reserve banksters destroy it's economy. With the US in financial ruin it will no longer be able to afford it's military. The US has become the old Soviet Union.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:35 | 4347453 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I said this back in 2008.  Obama is Mugabe and the USSA will end up like the USSR.  The recovery will be slower than Russia's receovery because many Russians are literate.   What percentage of people in the USSA can read at a 4th grade reading level? 60%?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:52 | 4345843 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

How did the Global Financial Crisis misalign East Asian currencies?

http://www.voxeu.org/article/global-crisis-and-east-asian-currency-misalignment

 

Wang Chung - Everybody Have Fun Tonight

 

:p

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:52 | 4345844 sampo
sampo's picture

"China Building Second Aircraft Carrier, Two More In The Pipeline"

Yeah, like they have officially only a thousand tonnes of gold, also..

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 11:55 | 4345846 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Nah they're just going to use those to store US bonds and treasury notes and then show up in San Francisco harbor and unload them on us.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:03 | 4345858 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Sitting ducks they be, grasshopper.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:13 | 4346002 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Please don't cross Master Po with Yoda.  Oh, please.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:03 | 4345859 yogibear
yogibear's picture

US companies built a monster with China when they gave away all of it's manufacturing and technology.

The latest US nuclear weapons technology to them in the 90's. China has also been building on the latest US aviation technology.

China will eventually take bolder steps in space surpassing the US. The US is pursuing the social sciences and Ponzi financial engineering for it's future.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:16 | 4345877 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

The other real component of all this heavy military industry build-up is the fact or idea that America has outsourced too much industry overseas.

When you cannot build or supply even simple defense systems domestically because the machines are gone, or more importantly the technicians, engineers and scientists are retired or cast to the wind you have a serious problem.

For all the big brains in the think tanks that speak of engaging China or globalization, all that goes at the window One Second After (good book) an EMP strike on a major US region.

China is not stupid. A modern war with China will entail a direct strike on domestic power and C4I. Too many computers, too much networking, too much centralization and exotic parts obtainable from some far-away land are a critical weakness in any strategy.

The US (its privileged elites and corporate class) want a China deep blue navy and formidable sub fleet.  The Japanese?  Not so much.

They still sing about invading Japan in Nanjing.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:18 | 4345879 loonyleft
loonyleft's picture

tldr summary:

Chinese build crap....as announced by many using....the Chinese crap they bought

Chinese are stupid to build aricraft carriers....US is not

US has existing 'superweapons' that make this aircraft carrier obsolete....chinese do not.

US is planning/building new 'superweapons' to counter any Chinese made item......Chinese are not.

Chinese are building aircraft carriers to fight next war, and are too stupid to think new technology or different weapons are better.

Chinese are building aircraft carriers to imitate/fight the US.....just as the US has used their aircraft carriers on other first world superpower and emerging superpower countries, and not used it against local powers/governments where an aircraft carrier provides a huge military advantage. 

many people here drink way too much kool aid. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:38 | 4347458 Freddie
Freddie's picture

You drink Obama-Pentagon kool aide.   The Obama-Pentagon and Obama-US Miltary is a joke now.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:27 | 4345888 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I don't understand why you won't sell Canada a couple of nuclear submarines.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:16 | 4346008 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

We don't have time to translate all the documentation into French.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:31 | 4345891 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

 

 

 

Dear China,

Can we borrow a few billion more.

We need to build more carriers to thwart your military build up.

We promise to pay you back.

Sincerely,

The Criminals of the Doomed US Government

P.S. Pretty please.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:32 | 4345897 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Multi-billion Yuan "sitting ducks"....

Didn't the Chinese learn anything from U.S. Navy Sea power over the last 50 years? 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:31 | 4346394 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

And the last aircraft carrier sunk in combat was ?

The last aircraft carrier sunk in an asymmetrical  (Gen 4 warfare) engagement was ?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:36 | 4345901 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

China won't use the carriers against us. That's for their southern expansion all the way down to Oz and NZ, taking everyone and everything in their path.

Westward expansion will mean using nukes to disable our carrier groups, then take a stab at occupying Hawaii. They have 300 million men with godamn nothing to lose. They don't give a fuck. Soon as they have the blue water navy capable of making their move, they'llprobably goddamn try it, maybe in some alliance with th Russians, until one of them turns on the other.

Our ace? Whatever the Shuttle program did for all those years. We have some fuckin' gnarly weaponized shit up there in orbit, I'd reckon, and I would suspect a secret drone network of some Skynet tech that can seriously fuck up your decade.

Wouldn't be the worst idea to bail out of the target areas by 2020-2025

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:41 | 4347464 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I hope China takes Obama's Hawaii.  The shithole is becoming more radiactive by the day.  F Hawaii.  They covered up for Obama from day one.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:34 | 4345902 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

The Chinese are preparing for war, and this war machine will not sit idle.  It will be put to use.  These carriers may be slow big targets, but the problem is you still have to actually deal with them.  You have to track them at all times.  You have to assign attack subs to them.  It takes money to send them to Davy Jones locker. 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:46 | 4345922 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Unless its a nuclear air craft carrier, then it's range is severely limited. It couldn't make it to Hawaii and back. China doesn't have forward refueling bases. Without them, even if the carrier were nuclear, it would have no battle group with it for support in true blue water operations or while transiting between theatres. This is just more Keynesian wet dreams. It poses no threat to the US whatsoever.

The only thing I could see them using this for is West Indian Ocean operations for their colonization of east and central Africa. Or as a show of force in the Persian Gulf.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:49 | 4346099 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Unless its a nuclear air craft carrier, then it's range is severely limited. It couldn't make it to Hawaii and back."

 

Underway replenishment.   It's been working well for the last hundred yrs or so. 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:32 | 4346395 Catullus
Catullus's picture

For whom? The US and British navies? The ones with forward supply depots?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 16:08 | 4346445 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

The underway replenishment ship takes the place of the 'depot'.   It's used where there is no depot.   Hence the 'underway' in  'underway replenishment'.

That or the IJN fielded nuclear powered carriers against Pearl Harbor at the start of WWII.   One of those.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:55 | 4345944 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

These new carriers look a lot more serious than the one they bought on Ebay from East Kraplakistan.

Still, they won't be much of a threat since they will be surrounded by smog wherever they go.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:01 | 4345965 gwar5
gwar5's picture

And without the EPA slowing them down the Chinesse can build them bigger, stronger, and faster than anybody else. They win.

The EPA, et.al., would make sure they are mandated to use military biofuels  @$60 per gallon, built with 10% homosexual labor, and force the shipbuilder to pay a carbon tax assessed to the US taxpayers, to be given to the IMF. And then they will only be used to ferry illegal aliens into the Southwestern USA.

 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:08 | 4345984 onceinalifetime
onceinalifetime's picture

It seems they buy the required raw materials with their U.S. bonds.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:33 | 4346057 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

They can not only buy the raw materials, they can buy or hack the designs and plans.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:13 | 4345998 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

A war with the US and China could only be won with nukes(although I don't really see a winner just saying) so things like aircraft carriers are really a waste of time and money.  There would be no sense attacking China in the traditional way the US would get its ass kicked and navy battles would just end in the loser launching it's big guns.

Overall......the world is fucking crazy.  Always has been and always will be until we aren't here anymore and we now have the technology to make that possible and it's all controlled by crazy assholes that make such comments as "well you know we didn't build nukes not to use them".

Who needs tv when your living a real disaster in r/t.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:34 | 4346634 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J1wLUJQ3EM

...The consequences of a Nuclear War ???

"Overall ...... the world is fucking crazy.

... technology to make that possible ...

controlled by crazy assholes. ..."

Indeed, rsnoble, the history of warfare has driven civilization to become criminally insane, due to the paradoxical ways that success in war depended upon deceits, which therefore enabled the entire social system to become based upon triumphant frauds, which were able to operate through maintaining attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance towards the longer term consequences. Chinese crazy assholes are adapting to international crazy assholes, so that all those crazy assholes together get more fucking crazy! Every "practical" decision made by one of the groups of crazy assholes, in order to cope with other groups of crazy assholes, drives the overall situation that the world is fucking crazy.

I regard intelligence as resulting from the internalization of natural selection. The ability of the evolving human minds to make more effective models of the world, including models of themselves within their models of the world, have resulted in the operation of natural selection pressures being reflected in those models. Therefore, human beings have more and more created artificial environments, within the natural environment, within which artificial selection takes place. The history of warfare, or the history of the murder system, has created militarism, as a model of the world, where the models of those models, within themselves, have created almost infinite tunnels of deceits. Those almost infinite tunnels of deceits, with their relevant abilities to maintain attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance, were internalized more and more through generation after generation of human beings, to become military intelligence. Military intelligence DOES internalize the selection pressures, however, it has done so in ways which overall have more and more become oxymoronic!

Warfare is about death controls. However, after the weapons have been made trillions of times more powerful and capable, by a series of breakthrough paradigm shifts in sciences enabling breakthrough technologies to be developed, what we "should" do is go through a series of breakthrough paradigm shifts in the ways that we think about death controls. We "need" a series of quantum leaps in the ways that we comprehend and operate our murder systems, which are consistent with understand natural selection, and evolutionary ecologies in more scientific ways as energy systems. However, obviously, instead, what we actually have are systems of runaway criminal insanity, with different groups of crazy assholes acting collectively to make an overall fucking crazy world.

In theory, we "should" internalize more understanding about natural selection, in order to be able to operate better death controls, through radically revolutionized militarism, operating murder systems which are not so fucking crazy. However, since the real world is actually being dominated by the most crazy assholes possible, there are no reasonable prospects for that to happen in any better ways. Therefore, one expects that the American debt slavery system will continue to pay for the Chinese to build more aircraft carriers, in a classic example of the ways that crazy assholes work to make the real world overall become more fucking crazy.

The basic forces of natural selection have driven human civilization to create systems of artificial selection whereby those human systems operate through the maximum possible deceits and frauds about themselves. Thus, the real combined money/murder systems exist as hyper-complicated and entangled sets of almost infinite tunnels of deceits, traveling through generation after generation, to enable the world to operate a militarism that supervises a murder system, which is run by crazy assholes in fucking crazy ways. Furthermore, those who are most publicly recognized as opposing that tend to also be just as much crazy assholes, behaving in fucking crazy ways, because they tend to promote the impossible ideal that there ought not be any murder systems. I.e., there ought not be a mental model of the way that natural selection operates upon human beings, in order to enable there to be an artificial selection system.

My basic recommendation is that we need to go through a profound series of paradigm shifts in the philosophy of science, which then applies to politics, and especially to militarism, in order that we can operate new kinds of murder systems, which achieve their artificial selection death controls in superior ways. However, since the real world is actually dominated by the short-term interests of crazy assholes, in the context of an overall fucking crazy world, recommending that we "should" understand natural selection better, in order to operate our artificial selection systems better, is practically useless to bother to do. Instead, we are looking at old-fashioned, obsolete ideas, like building aircraft carriers, illustrating the ways that the only thing that the crazy assholes think about is to respond in the short-term to other crazy assholes, no matter that that results in an overall more fucking crazy world.

Progress in science and technology has made weapons become trillions of times more powerful and capable, (and headed towards becoming quadrillions of times more so). However, nothing like that kind of progress is allowed to operate in the realm of military intelligence itself, since that kind of artificial selection has been selected for itself to operate through the maximum possible deceits about itself, including even to itself, while there are controlled opposition groups against that which are just as deceitful, in the sense that they too maintain attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance towards the imperatives of energy systems as the evolutionary ecologies, operating through natural selection, which have gradually been internalized as artificial selection, which tragically were selected to be operated through the maximum possible deceits and frauds about themselves to themselves, as well as to be publicly criticized by the same sort of utterly absurd bullshit as that system itself manifests, due to history selecting more military success to be based on backing up deceits with destruction, so that deceitful models of the world are the central feature of contemporary civilization, as a globalized system of crazy assholes running an overall fucking crazy world.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:55 | 4346705 BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

A better murder system

 

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

 

 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 00:41 | 4347000 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

An interesting idea, BobRocket!

There is no doubt that the single most important form of murder has been the assassination of politicians that could not be bribed or intimidated. That is, the secret societies' secret "police" or hitmen, have done more to change history, when ordered and paid to, than anyone else. Particularly in the history of American hardball politics, the ability of the best organized gangsters, the banksters, to take over the American government could not have been done unless, at crucial times in history, successful politicians, that were not possible to bribe or intimidate, had not been assassinated in order to eliminate their influence.

At the present time, there is almost nothing that works in the other direction. Therefore, the link you provided raised an interesting possibility regarding how a countervailing kind of assassination method MIGHT restore some balance to the past pattern of assassinations. Typically, only the better politicians got assassinated, while the bad ones rarely were. Indeed, one of the most interesting episodes in American history was due to the almost miraculous survival of President Andrew Jackson, despite assassination attempts, so that he was able "Kill the Bank," instead of the banksters being able to kill him.

Of course, our bogus, bullshit mass media tend to promote notions about the crazy "lone gunman" as the assassinators. However, the more one looks into those scenarios, the less probable they become. In fact, the real world is controlled by the application of the principles and methods of organized crime, on level after level, in a fractal pattern. Thus, governments are always the biggest form organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals.

Along the lines that the Internet is theoretically a kind of neural network emerging in a globalized civilization, as in the material manifestation of the noosphere, or the sphere of all interrelating human consciousness, it IS an extremely intriguing question to speculate how the Internet may play some role in the historical murder systems. It surely has the capacity to add even more magnitudes of dark depths to the infinite tunnels of deceits, backed by destruction.

On the other hand, I would prefer to seen the Internet enable more democratization of the death controls, by bringing them more into the light, as systematically recognized social facts, whose overall realities are more scientifically studied and amended. However, given the degree to which the ALREADY ESTABLISHED money/murder systems have become legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which are runaway, out of control systems, since the only successful surviving politicians are bankster puppets, whose job it is to fool the masses of muppets, and that system is currently so out of control that there is almost nothing left within it, that can actually operate to ameliorate its runaway social insanities, due to such "successful" force backed frauds dominating almost everything, so overwhelmingly, it does seem like collapse into crazy chaos is the only plausible future to predict, in which case death insanities will result from the debt slavery systems driving their numbers to become death insanities as a consequence.

Therefore, although I tend to regard what the article you linked as more an example of death insanity, rather than saner democratization of the death controls, which expressed a genuine greater use of information, and higher consciousness, given the degree to which the ruling classes are engaged in a deliberate war against consciousness in almost every way, and appear to be "winning" that war against consciousness, even against themselves, some kind of wild card death insanities are surely worth considering as possibilities.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:29 | 4346041 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Aircraft carriers have only two purposes - one is to project air power into some place where you do not have land bases, and two is to protect a fleet of various types of ships from someone else's land or carrier based aircraft. We have to assume that this is in China's future plans as there is no defensive purpose for them, considering existing Chinese territory.

A number of posts have criticized the potential range if they build a non-nuke carrier, but just go back and read about island hopping in WWII. China does not even have to invade countries, they can use their surplus US dollars to 'buy' refueling bases anyplace they want.

A number of posts have commented that these are sitting ducks to America's "super weapons". But remember that China is graduating more than 10 times as many engineers as the United States, and they are not all designing iPhone components. Are American advanced weapon systems superior today? If you believe that, go hop on a Dreamliner.

I am not that worried about the existing Chinese Carrier or even the one they are building, but it will not be much longer before a much improved carrier 3, 4, or 5 come along. That will be the time to worry.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:10 | 4346161 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

" Are American advanced weapon systems superior today? "

Certainly it is true that Imperial America has the most advanced weapon delivery systems today and in the foreseeable future.  The U.S. military is in constant motion, in constant practice of its art. You learn to fight by fighting. 

 

 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:30 | 4346042 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Dup

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 13:55 | 4346119 InanimateCarbonRod
InanimateCarbonRod's picture

And now chinee saila can come to golden mountain los angeles port of call for dim sum week in land of USA with big fake tit blondes and monster truck injected booties to motorboat their way into happiness.

The expertise necessary to run a carrier (and the other logistics) is soooo complex...the Chinese have a 70 year learning curve to overcome.  

Good luck.

Better off changing their birth rate policies and shipping more hotties over here.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 15:43 | 4346431 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

The laws of large numbers says otherwise regarding the learning curve. The wil quickly overcome that just by hiring "experts retired from the field".

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:18 | 4346180 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

i guess the russian varyag was a learning exercise, like they said. 

 

The chinese will build an fleet of carriers faster than the u.s. can do maintainance on their existing fleet. 

 

the corruption of the u.s. military contractors will be the undoing of the u.s. military. 

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:18 | 4346741 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Next movie by Scorcese : The Wolf of the MIC. 

That should be more in the vein of Strangelove orgies of the ballistic fruity nuts MASH brigade on the USS Gerald Ford (the man who said the magic bullet was truly magical but who couldn't chew gum n think at same time). 

Toilet seats for 1000$ a stand up bang your nurse Hotlips. 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:30 | 4346215 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

All very amusing, but assume that the real targets of these things is more like Somali pirates threatening Chinese trade.  Going further, assume China is more or less an (uncomfortable) ally of the US.  They might even depend on US fleet elements to protect their carriers.

Actually, a few more years with Obama at the helm, and Hillary on the horizon, China may not have to build carriers at all, they can just foreclose on the US and take ours, or just issue orders we have to carry out.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:39 | 4346240 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"do I have to pay the workers? Does it have any Sailors?" If the answer to both those questions is no then we're good to go. I am paying my cell phone bill...I expect victory.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 14:58 | 4346311 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

When you go to war, you must pay, period!

LBJ pays for Vietnam raiding the coffers of social security to pay for "The Great Society"...  It worked-- the sheeple bought into it lock, stock, and barrel!   (where is social security's piggy-bank today? In Hum?ty-Dumbty Land!!!)

Bush #43 goes to war lowering taxes for the wealthy... he fires SOT Paul O'Neill and Lawrence Lindsey economic advisor for asking how the fuck do you expect to pay for this ill-gotten war. Lindsey gets toasted!

BTW, Lawrence B. Lindsey is perhaps the most qualified person alive today to run the FRB's... but, he's not an Ashke`nazi' jew?!?   jmo  

China can build out it's military three fold just with the interest on our USSA paper it holds, ~ $1.34 tn., NICE!

u go america

WTF

thankyou Tyler

 

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 16:40 | 4346553 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

When Taiwan, S.Korea, Japan and Phillipines are all vassal states to China, then be worried.

Please look at a map.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 17:39 | 4346669 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M (3:52)

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 19:01 | 4346829 ShakaZulu
ShakaZulu's picture

Even if they don't get this one built before the world goes nuclear, they don't care.  Conventional forces will be needed to enforce "The Peace."

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 20:35 | 4347008 Flatchestynerdette
Flatchestynerdette's picture

I kept wondering why the President and the Senate but more importantly the Republicans in the House were ready to jam through fast track approval of the TPP bill when it would gut employment here in the states worse than NAFTA.

I'm not pro-union but I'm pro-american labor & the TPP bill just gives everything away to make a more synthesized trading block which includes EPA standards, currency trading, banking legislation, food certification, etc. etc.

Now I know its more about lining up "partners" who will be surrogates against China's dominance in the Pacific but let's get real: if China wants Taiwan or Vietnam or anything else - they've got the money & more importantly the people to occupy the territory to make it Chinese. Look at Tibet. Slow and steady its culture is being overruled by Chinese who have moved there, making Tibetans second class citizens.

China can do it - we can't. Its in the numbers: they have a population that is more male and younger. We have a population that is older and more female. They will spend a lot of money but technological improvements will save them what we've spent & are paying off in debt as we had to build the telephone poles where they got the cell towers first. In the end, they leap frog over us and win the right to be the referee. Good luck to them. Nobody ever likes the world superpower.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 22:17 | 4347242 draghithebearslayer
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The United States have 11 carriers. Any one of them could take on the entire Chinese airforce plus all four Chinese "aircraft carriers", the floating Russian scrap metal and those imaginary future ones. So what's with the big scare, you pussies!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 03:44 | 4347587 den_by
den_by's picture

Carriers are too expensive and in most cases useless against enemy who has modern military. Carrier strike group can be easily shutdown even before it can get within operational range. It can only be useful  when fighting stone-age nations in Middle east and Afghanistan, but you can always use it as desalination plant 

Tue, 01/21/2014 - 01:33 | 4350683 Archie1954
Archie1954's picture

The US will not have the control of the seas that it has had in the past. This is a good thing as it will prevent America from  making very foolish mistakes in attempting to prevent nations in various areas of the world from having any influence in the region in which they are located. The US is a spent force, an anachronism of brutal and disgraceful influence that the world is well rid of.

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