This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Spot The Labor Force Collapse Culprit

Tyler Durden's picture


A few days ago we disproved, in what we hoped would be the last time, any insinuation that the collapse in the labor force is due to demographics (a topic we had covered before) when we showed that it was just 10 short years ago that the Bureau of Labor Statistics itself was forecasting an increase in the overall participation rate - here we assume logically that America's demographic profile was known to its labor market experts in 2004 - only to slowly at first, then very fast, revise it ever lower... and still it was unable to catch up to the unfolding gruesome reality.

Yet somehow, so called finance experts, econ PhDs, central planners and other ivory tower dwellers still refuse to let this topic go, and continue to reference the participation rate and demographics in the same sentence. So to truly end any speculation that the plunge in the labor force is due to "old people", defined as workers 55 and over, retiring, here is a chart (which in an update of a post we did first in October 2012 and it took the rest of the media world only 14 months to catch up) of the cumulative job gains broken down by "young", or those 16-54, vs "old", those 55 and over.

Spot something wierd?

It seems that the "old" age worker group - that which is supposed to be bleeding workers to retirement - has had zero job losses since the start of the Depression in December 2007, while it was the "younger" workers who according to the BLS' Household Survey, have hit the labor cliff and seen their number collapse, dropping as much a 6 million, and only slowly rising, with another 3.5 million jobs left to catch up before pre-recession levels are met.

In fact drilling down in the "young" worker category reveals that the most impacted group of workers is those in their prime working years: Americans aged 25-54.

And just to put the final nail in the coffin of this silly debate, first here is the Labor Force Participation rate by "old" workers, or those most prone to retirement, and where the Fed is now desperate to scapegoat the collapse in the Labor Force, compared to all other age groups. The chart, which shows that the "55 and over" worker group has now normalized its participation rate to pre-crisis levels while that of younger workers has tumbled to levels not seen since the 1970s, speaks for itself.

... and second: the employment to (civilian non-institutional) population ratio. The only recovery, if one may call it that, is for old workers.

So enough with all this "they are retiring" bullshit, and call it for what it is: millions of Americans of all ages, but mostly of prime working age, bailing out of the labor force by the millions because of equal or better opportunities elsewhere, opportunities which almost without exception are increasingly reliant on the ever more unsustainable and insolvent US welfare state.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:09 | 4347902 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I'll take Obamacare for a thousand Alex.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:12 | 4347910 BandGap
BandGap's picture

A couple more years and I'll get to participate in the recovery!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:31 | 4347954 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The reason oldies are around is because they are the only ones that hold the keys to the kingdom with respect to business process, accountability, continuity, work ethic, dedication, etc... I could go on, but you get the idea. The younger generations have grown up flitting from one job to another as job-security is a thing of the past and there is little to no loyalty to an employer, whereas the old goats have a sense of loyalty and dedication not found in the younger generations. I can't count the number of people I have hired and fired over the last decade. Not because they weren't competent, but basically over work ethic. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:41 | 4347976 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Thanks ZH, the charts basically say it all.

The labor market is hurting, no recovery

Layoff List:


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:50 | 4348013 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture


The Battle of the Bongs

This game will be smokin

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:54 | 4348030 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Pacific NW favoured by 17 in that one

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:32 | 4348810 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

The problem is that retirees saving pots are practically worthless to the money markets, as long as markets can gorge on QE... 401K's are surplus to requirement.

Until annuity rates increase significantly no amount of pension savings is enough to retire comfortably.

QE has created a much bigger problem in the pipeline which is the huge skills vacuum in the 18 - 30 demographic. These people are already indebted to the hilt with crushing student loans that they cannot even default on.

There is now a productivity cliff baked into the pie. This millenial cohort is never gonna generate the tax revenue the government needs when they reach their 50's.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 16:19 | 4348954 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It's a good thing Obama didn't go with his original idea for his Campaign Slogan in 2011;

"Welcome to the goodie room!"

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:25 | 4349134 czardas
czardas's picture

I have a hard time understanding this.  If even the casual investor had bought the safest and easiest market product (an index) their portfolio would have exploded these last three years. Maybe that is the problem I've run into frequently - ideological investing, assuming that because one thinks the market shouldn't be doing well is won't be doing well.  If the Fed manipulation has taught us anything it is that "certain" trends do not emerge as we think they should.  Our debt is as much a cultural phenomenon as a financial or political one - the idea that because our government and its citizens can live beyond their means for a while, it's now OK for everyone to do so regardless of savings or income. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 19:37 | 4349632 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'I have a hard time understanding this.'


What's to understand? This is only confusing if you think this is an actual market. It is not. The Fed controls this 'market'.The question and answer has always been the same . . . if you thought the Fed was gonna pump the market, simply go buy some stawks and let them pump you up. The reason why no one (or at least most traders/investors) has done this are two-fold:


1) Too risky. How do you know when to get out? Did anyone think the Fed would monetize like they have the past 3-4 years? I would say 99% would answer no. And even if you did, again, when do you get out? Because once the Fed stops pumping, those hawt stawks turn to ash overnight. Remember, you are front running the House. If you don't know know when to get out, they will carry you out on a stretcher. Fool me once, Mr Greenspan . . .


2) You have to have money to begin with. The retail investor still hasn't recovered from the Lehman Event and real estate implosion. How do you expect anyone to take advantage of the dubious rise in equities in the first place?

So it is all a moot point. Just don't be confused by it. This is why people are angry at the Fed . . . they have tried to corral people into a highly risky equities 'market' which they (the Fed) control. The Fed can pull the plug on this whenever they want. And the only people who will gain by it are the ones who have already booked their winnings, or the ones the Fed protect.

Try to mark that top in yer trading belt. I dare ya.

Tue, 01/21/2014 - 00:58 | 4350634 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

In the interest of "equality" and "social justice" I'm willing to take my FULL Soc. Sec retirement now, at 60, and step down from my job.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:54 | 4348035 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Lol, better have a shitload of dingdongs and milk for the crowd.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:01 | 4348056 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Imagine if the players took part in their legislation

No one would tackle

I'm not paying $500 for flag football

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:08 | 4348087 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture



Aren't a lot of people leaving the under 55 cohort and joining the over 55 cohort?


Via that process called "aging".

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:23 | 4348310 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

About the same amount of those dying in the over 55 cohort?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:34 | 4348335 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

Not in the labor force does not mean they are not working. They are underground, so to speak.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:30 | 4348455 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Old Farts rule

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:37 | 4348471 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

Lets just say that the younger generation has had an uphill climb to come to terms with hard work when raised by liberal media and government schools due to both parents working full time.  #WomensLibFTW

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:14 | 4348732 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

I'm over 55.... and I RETIRE every night.

Then I wake and go to work.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:40 | 4348841 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

However, the Little People seem contant with their 0.01% yields, global competition, flood of immigrants competing for jobs, stagnat wages, sinking benefits, and so on.

So nothing will change.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 19:45 | 4349668 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'So nothing will change.'

What do you mean 'content'? You think they have a say in this? You think Babyboomers had a say in whether or not they paid into Social Security and Medicare? You think the entire nation had a say in Obamacare? The libs wanted singleplayer, not this worst of both worlds crapfest we have now.

No one does anything while merely being threatened. Words mean nothing to our politicians. Nothing changes because it will take blood, YOUR BLOOD (and the blood of your kids) to correct these problems. So nothing will change until the pain actually becomes worse than dying, or worse than being forced to kill your own kids with your bare hands.

THEN (and only then) will things change.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:44 | 4348485 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"The Battle of the Bongs"

lol...yeah...Doritos and Dominoes couldn't be happier!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:55 | 4348039 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

If you like your job, you can keep your job.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:57 | 4348537 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Those charts don't tell the entire story.

Retiring workers do indeed account for about a third of the decline in labor force, but only a third.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:43 | 4348646 OceanX
OceanX's picture

How long do you think until the newly retired need to go back to work?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:43 | 4348647 OceanX
OceanX's picture

How long do you think until the newly retired need to go back to work?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:53 | 4348886 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

What is this "retiring" of which you speak?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:18 | 4348754 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Waaahhhh, NOT SFUZZI!!!

I see the Oral of Omaha is canning some FOL & DQ workers.

Fricken parasites.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:43 | 4347981 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Why should anyone have loyalty to a faceless corporation that has no loyalty to them? I made a concerted decision in my life not to have loyalty to my employers because I know they would fuck me the first chance they got.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:50 | 4348012 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Keyser:  I agree with you and just look at the above post for proof!

I'm in that 60 something age now and I busted my ass for every employer that hired me and worked every single hour I could (there's no time like over time!) and I stayed on while many others were laid off when things got bad.

And I know the difficulty employers have hiring competent people  from a shooting buddy of mine who owns a local hardware and lumber store who has begged me to work for him cause "it looks like these kids are writing with their feet filling out a job application!"



Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:05 | 4348075 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Maybe your friend hasn't heard of the axiom "You get what you pay for."  Perhaps he should look at his offer if he isn't getting qualified applicants.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:38 | 4348172 kralizec
kralizec's picture

New to the real business world I see...

Paying someone more wages isn't going to draw better applicants, it will only draw in more applicants...the pool being what it is I would hire the 40-50 something former manager with a work ethic and a need to care for his family over the 20 something smart-ass know it all that loafs around IMing his Emo girlfriend and Twittering with his slacker buddies on his iPhone all damn day and acts mortally hurt if you ask him to do something!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:46 | 4348194 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Pay is only part of it. Maybe it's not always the employee, but the manager and the way he manages that's the reason for the work he gets out of people. Or maybe the culture of the company.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:00 | 4348229 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Cannot discount the dick factor, can be worse in family run enterprises sometimes, but the job market being what it is firing a dick and finding a replacement shouldn't be that hard.  Been with outfits with bad reps/culture...word gets out, only the stupid, insane and desperate work those places...and then they usually go under.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:56 | 4348586 Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

That might be a thoery in the boomers' flawed model for the business world.

Welcome to the real world.

Its been demonstrated that workers that are underpaid work less than the equitably paid (who work less than the overpaid).  When youre hiring kids out of college paying less than a year of university, of course they arent going to work hard. But youd rather blame the kids you just hired than the managers (including yourself) who continue to make poor and uneducated decisions.

Tue, 01/21/2014 - 01:05 | 4350646 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

The underpaid are historically undereducated (both at home and at school).

They don't understand "delayed gratification".

Their vision only extends to their next paycheck, at best. Many can only see to their next beer at shift end.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:19 | 4349118 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Nope, not a newbie here.  I also said offer rather then pay on purpose.  Perhaps the friend is an asshole - turned down plenty of lucrative offers in my day because the employer had a history of being a shithead to their employees.  Maybe it's part time, maybe there are odd hours, maybe there is just no qualified people because he does business in da hood.  No idea, could be none or all of these factors because this list is far from exhaustive.  However if their views are anything like yours, good help will catch on to that pretty quick and stay far away.  All I know is:

1) The friend gets nothing but mouth breathers applying

2) The friend needs to look at WHY they are attracting nothing but sub-par and fix it, rather then blame the applicants for their lack of attracting poor candidates.  (Honestly, it's like calling a girl bad names because they don't want to get with you rather than making yourself more likable.)

Having said that, most people are TERRIBLE at hiring good people.  I've hired old and young, experienced and newbies and never had an issue.  Not only do I spend a lot of time with them up front to determine if they are a fit but I also communicate with them regularly after the hire and get to know them as people.  Then again I want loyal opposition and don't feel threatened by subordinates that possess more knowledge which is far from the norm.  Most people want ass kissers and people they don't feel threatened by when all is said and done, and no one age demographic has the corner market on being a bad employee or playing the "hiring game" by false advertising.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:43 | 4348182 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Gee exi1edOne you can't go around throwing the responsibility for these problems back on the poor business owners. It's always the wage slaves who are at fault. The slaves should ALWAYS appreciate what the Man offers without complaint. Obedience, loyalty and a willingness to sacrifice health, happiness and any kind of life outside of work are expected of the slave so that profits may be maximized. After all, profit is the ONLY reason a business exists (according to the propaganda that so many here seem to buy).

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:31 | 4348325 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Its everyone's fault. Until at least recently there has not been a huge barrier for anyone to become self employed. It has been a choice for most to either be employed or an employer. If you not not want the responsibility of the employer that is fine, just don't bitch about being a fucking dependent. Modern society is breeding dependency and when you can't find enough of it with a job, you can always fall back on the government. I have been a small time employer for the last 35 years, never employing more than ten at a time. Nice and up close and personal. You get to see it all and no big bad corporate bogyman to push it off on. It is getting worse and you can try to take that to the bank.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:36 | 4348469 11b40
11b40's picture

Same here.  In business since 1976 & I maxed out at 16 people about 12 years ago, but changing business conditions have reduced us to 4.  For me, however, there was not a lot of turnover...but, I offered solid commissions to the independent reps, and a great benefit package to the office employees that included medical and pension and profit sharing.  I had to let people go in 2008 that had been with me for over 20 years.  I can't even start to describe here how much our industry has changed, mostly for the worse.  

How much I despise the corporate world would be hard to describe, too.  If I were starting again, I would do 2 years at a tech school, then maybe transfer & do 2 more at a regular college just for the benefit of gerneral education, and immediatley start working toward starting my own business with the skill set I had learned.  It might take a few years and some sacrifice, but long term I believe it's the way to go.  Own your job & love your work.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:56 | 4348532 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

It's a local hardware and lumber store!  How much do you think the rocket scientists working there should get paid?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect minimum wage labor (never mind more expensive labor) to have a basic command of whatever the functional language is in the area, be able to stitch together a semi-coherent written sentence and actually work (sober) when expected.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 16:03 | 4348916 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Hell you must not have been around in the 70's. NOONE was sober and we built skyscrapers and passenger jets.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:09 | 4348084 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

A lot of working class people now aged late 50s and 60s were laid off the last few years and were given a pension buyout rather than the pension they thought they'd been working for.  Companies all the time are reneging on their promises to their loyal employees most of whom are the older people you describe, furthermore they have real issues finding new employment after having been laid off.  I've not found many businesses worthy of me giving my life and being loyal to in this environment (where older loyal workers are lied to and let go with a pension payout when they were working partly towards the promise of a pension).

I have faith things may change and dream of finding a job/business I could by loyal to, until then, loyalty isn't worth it, I've been laid off too many times due to lack of work after having been early for every shift and quietly going about and completing the work I was asked to do and trying to get on well with everybody else (ie not because of my work ethic), all for jobs not very much higher than minimum wage.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:58 | 4348051 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Same line of thinking I've followed in my life. I didn't steal from them or do anything malicious while working for them. But I never had any loyalty at all. When I had office jobs I never had pictures of my family or wife on my desk, maybe a nice scenery picture for day dreaming, but nothing personal. And most all of them still fucked me first chance they got.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:47 | 4348492 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

I call BS.  I can remember a number of times that colleagues told me that the way to get ahead is to job hop and move every three to four years.  Then when they can their asses canned at fifty something they come bo-hooing about the mean corporation.  Everytime you quit a job and move to another outfit for "more money" you are firing the company!  So you can do it to them but they can't do it to you.  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:18 | 4348750 ImpotentRage
ImpotentRage's picture

Agreed. I have exactly as much loyalty to them as they have to me. Which is to say, keep them around as long as they are beneficial, drop them as soon as they are not.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 20:22 | 4349804 TheSkipper1967
TheSkipper1967's picture

I know what you mean.  I still remember the analysis I did for Sr. Mgmt after the company laid off 20% of the workforce and payroll expense only dropped by 13%.  Well when you lay off people that only averaged 30K then you dont get the same bang for your buck.  Those same Sr. Mgmt (President, CFO, VP Sales, VP HR, VP Marketing) were all eventually let go for someone else when they couldn't turn the company around.  The company was eventully sold to private equity and that is when I left.  Almost to a person that private equity firm has replaced the old employees that came with the sale.  The only thing the President and CFO carried about ( I reported to the CFO at the time) was the BONUS they would get at hitting the profit numbers after laying off a lot of people.  That experience changed me a great deal.  I worked with many of those people and kept the list of names who were to be let go.  I am ready to go back to Log Cabins and hunting for my food. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:50 | 4347989 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You old farts caused the problem also at the same time. While you were so busy working you forgot to be parents and let the state raise your children.....

And this is why we have what we have now.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:07 | 4348074 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I do enjoy how people bitch about "younger generations" yet conveniently seem to forget that they raised them.


"All they do is stare at their phones/computers!"


And who bought those for them so they didn't hve to be bothered?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:50 | 4348096 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

They didn't raise them is the problem and the 'youngins' are severely at a disadvantage once they have to leave the nest because of this.

Morgan's canon in action bitchez.

How do predators hunt in the wild. They try to isolate the young, sickly and old from the herd. What does the herd do to protect them, they circle the wagons around them so the predators can't pick them off. Human ingenuity has figured out how to isolate them even when the wagons are circled and have you willingly give them to the predators at the same time.

Don't blame the computers either they are only tools like fire. It is the actions of the individual using them that is the problem and those actions are taught or in this case lack of teaching/parenting. Fire warms and gives life but at the same time will burn you to death if used wrong.

Disclosure statement I am not a baby boomer or a 'youngin' just someone in the middle of both worlds making an observation.


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:44 | 4348186 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

oh yea, tell me about it, JohnnyBriefcase!  how everyone loved me 25 years ago when i raised my 3 kids, purchasing everything under the sun for them:  dental&medical needs, school fees, property taxes, houses, cars, clothing, paying more social security taxes cause good ol' Greenspan said that we had to double the social security taxes (SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM ACT of 1983) in order to fund both our parents & our own retirement needs..... & let's not forget all the cars i helped them buy & the auto insurances i helped fund cause the kids couldn't find jobs that paid enough to support their needs...... the rental deposits i paid, the electric bills i helped out paying cause the kids were broke, the food bills........ BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH ......... how they loved me when i was young, paying into the system & buying things for a growing family.

Now ?   Now i'm old & everyone hates.  i'm only good for one thing to these people, stealing more if they can figure it out.   Everyone hates me, the doctors, the government, the younger generation & even my own ingrate kids.   ...... i gave my all & they just want me gone early. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:02 | 4348278 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

10 mderfvkin million upthumbs lynn

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:32 | 4348332 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Welcome to a culture in which everything has been turned into a commodity, even people. Hence the reason it will die soon from its own parasitic characteristics.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:04 | 4348393 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Its always been a world where you are either eating or being eaten. The trick is to know the difference. How is it that so many are being abused by so few without implicitly being involved? Being fucked by every fucking single employer yet return you did for even more?

If people are a commodity, we chose to become that. If we are willing to steal for an Ipad but refuse to spend anything on our own healthcare, that says a lot, don't you think? About who and what we are?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 16:51 | 4349061 pauhana
pauhana's picture

Cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon, little boy blue and the man in the moon.

"When you comin' home, son?"

"I don't know when but we'll get together then, dad, we're gonna have a good time then."

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:02 | 4349086 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Whacha tryin to do, make me cry?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:49 | 4348497 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Thanks for that lynnybee.

Generation bashing is just one tool in the Statist's tool bag; along with gender and sexual preference.

"Divide and Conquer" as the saying goes; and the biggest tool the false left/right, Republicrat/Demican shell game.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:29 | 4348615 cassotto
cassotto's picture

"All they do is stare at their phones/computers!"

>>that's personal freedom

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:38 | 4349183 DontGive
DontGive's picture

Right on the money - the "younger generation" is the spawn of the... you know the rest.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:41 | 4348177 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Not every parent is like that...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:49 | 4348185 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Correct but too many aren't because things wouldn't be this far fucking gone in the first place if enough did. Don't take it personally that question is a personal question everyone has to deal with on their own terms.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:56 | 4348529 NIHILIST CIPHER

I have grown children and several almost grown grandchildren. My grandson is 18, he works 28 hours a week and goes to school. He has the "old school" work ethic as does his mother (my daughter). After two weeks at his job with Walmart the HR rep told him they had been hearing good things about him and asked if he thought he could handle tasks (usually done by employees with one years experience). There are opportunities out there for young folks that show good qualities.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:37 | 4348624 Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

Your grandson is making 7.50 an hour. That might pay his rent OR a small portion of his education.

Old people like to talk about the "old school" work ethic referring to the people they personally know but assume no one else works the same way.  Guess what, top grades at university take more time and energy than ever before and they dont get you as far. In addition, everyone in school who isnt a trust funder is working 20-40 hrs a week. People arent putting in less time than they were when you were young. You choose to only judge by the results as if they took an equal effort to what they required forty years ago.

You can choose to blame a lazy youth if youd like but you are being lazy by refusing to perceive the reality of the world you helped create.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:33 | 4349150 NIHILIST CIPHER

Ballin D       My grandson is ia senior in high school, so the $7.85 per hour is fine for him. My comment was in responce to the others who were saying young people don't make good employees and have little to look forward to. I believe any young person with spunk and who is willing to work will be a success.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:56 | 4348042 tvdog
tvdog's picture

If you're loyal to a business that regards you as a "human resource," you're a fool.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:21 | 4348118 DOT
DOT's picture

I regard myself as a "human resource".

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:58 | 4348049 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The oldies are the only ones who know how to work things manually, when all this friggin' automation breaks. Plus, who can afford to retire?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:55 | 4348215 RKDS
RKDS's picture

And it _will_ break if the enterperisey solution scam run by consultants is as widespread and pervasive as I think it is.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:52 | 4348259 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And aren't they supposed to pass that knowledge on down through teaching/on the job hands on training before they die for the next generation......... The state doesn't teach real world in their fantasy land re-education centers. The businesses need to take responsibility here also for their own reasons.

By not doing that you are essentially plaque clogging an artery at this point. We know what happens when too much plaque clogs up a small space....


Tue, 01/21/2014 - 01:43 | 4350700 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Why would anybody need to take responsibility, when corporations and The State are a means of evading reality, and are in charge of critical infrastructure components. More to the point....the state is in charge of one of the most critical critical infrastructure components...water....while its protected monopolies are in charge of the

This simply will NOT end well. Sorry.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:58 | 4348052 duo
duo's picture

Oldies that thought they could live on the interest on their savings are now realizing that they will have to burn through principal instead, which means they needed to save double or more of what they thought was enough before ZIRP.  That is why they are workiing.

The unintended consequences of ZIRP.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:24 | 4348128 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

Are you sure it's unintended?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:10 | 4348407 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It's a feature not a flaw of ZIRP.

Just like the wizard of oz and Dorothy and her silver slippers the answer was always on her feet and all she had to do is click her heels...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:40 | 4348475 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

I admit it, I did't save enough being self employed 40 years. Too busy supplying everyone with the easy life, now I know better and am making a last dash to the finish and saving a boat load. Stay out of my way or I will run you over. Kids can't keep up, never could, we gotz skilz.


This is MY turf and I got nuttin to lose.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 23:26 | 4350452 Forgottenman62
Forgottenman62's picture

This is the Silent Generation.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:22 | 4348121 Franktastic
Franktastic's picture

what hapens when the old farts start to fade into the sunset...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:37 | 4348343 Villageidiot777
Villageidiot777's picture

One word comes to my mind "Renaissance"

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:15 | 4348588 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

We get the 'dark ages' until the lost knowledge is relearned from scratch. This process has happened plenty of times in the past.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:34 | 4348158 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"The reason oldies are around is because..."

Its also because older workers are taking part time jobs to suppliment retirement income (SS, pension, etc). They can afford to accept a lower wage than younger worker that still has a mortgage, raising children, student loans, and is looking for a full time job. The labor participation chart does not really reflect part-time employment and full time employment. It would be interesting to see a chart with part time and full time job participation rates.

"The younger generations have grown up flitting from one job"

Its also because a sense of entitlement as younger workers grew up as being told they are special and entitled, by the older generations oddly enough. To some degree the Boomers were the first generation with a sense of entitlement stemming from the 1960s and later during the Yuppie years of the 1980's



Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:55 | 4348216 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Keyser, I agree in general to what you say but I think recently things have changed. I've worked with 6 baby boomers that for the last 10 years that have been bragging retiring at 62 and living the good life. All of them said their spouses were going to retire with them as well on the same time frame. It's been 4 years out now when all of them should be long gone and none of them are. In fact, they are very quiet on the subject and I can't get them to divulge why. I don't think this is just work ethic. All are still working full time. In fact, they are far less extravagant than before. No going out to eat everyday anymore and all brown bag their lunches. No more 15k yearly vacations to exotic locales. Something is DEFINITELY different.


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:10 | 4348411 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The realization that your saving are not safe from devaluation or outright "bail-in" theft. The realization that abandoning one's career is potentially terminal to life sustaining income and the constant harping about boomers creates a definite sense of vulnerability form virtually every perspective. No SS, no savings, no job and no healthcare. Whats to worry about?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:18 | 4348428 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

They are 'supporting' their kids.....seen it happen alot. Brainwash the children in thinking they are unique and different and better than everyone else. Then they go to school and are expected to work....and these unique/different kids AREN'T. They are like everyone else and they don't like it. So they retreat to their safe place....home and their parents must support them. Haha. The joke is on all of them. I'm in my late 30s. Parents taught me if I want to eat or buy things I must work. And I do and have been successful. Seen many others in my generation and the millenials that do not (because they think most jobs are beneath them)......can't wait til the collapse and these peolpe are on the street begging.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:40 | 4348640 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Jerry, you are so spot on here I hate to admit. The wealthiest one has a 40 year old mortally obese son ( met him, definitely over 400lb and very short) that is living at home for most of his life. He made an attempt 8 years ago renting a room with a few friends. After 5 years and 60k in credit card bills his parents took him back. They paid off his credit card debt as well as the 6 months rent he owed so not to "ruin his credit rating". I was absolutely shocked.

Though it really wasn't any of my business to tell someone how to raise their child I just couldn't help suggesting that some tough love was in order here ( he is not disabled). She explained he was shy and needed their help. I was shy too as a kid and my parents just threw me into social situations until I got over it. The idea I could stream movies, play videos and stuff myself all day would have never crossed my mind.

Ultimately I think they have really hurt their child. There is no way he can live without their support even if they leave him everything free and clear. He can't afford to pay the property taxes. They are proud he has now started working a part time job at Game Stop.

I'm so thankful my parents gave me basically nothing, though at the time I didn't appreciate it much. I, like you, have worked for all I have. Funny, we never gave our kids much either and they are quite resourceful even in this terrible economy.


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 23:19 | 4350419 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"can't wait til the collapse and these peolpe are on the street begging."

I think you meant to say, "can't wait til the collapse and these people are on the street playing Knockout on us and taking our wallets."

For myself, I can wait.  At the rate I'm going downhill, I might just be lucky enough to crap out before the SHTF.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:06 | 4348571 noless
noless's picture

How do you define "work ethic" because i hear that term thrown around a lot, but for some reason it never seems to have any sort of reciprocity in the definition.

You get what you pay for.

If an employer wants to set me up in a job which basically offers only enough for food and lodging, and no opportunity to better my position or have any kind of social life, what kind of worker do you expect to get?

Serious question here.

I've worked for enough people who have questioned my "work ethic" to know it's pretty much a bullshit cop out at this point. Every time I've offered more than is expected my only reward is that now being the new benchmark without more pay, what the fuck is a "raise" by the way? Let alone a "bonus" or "vacation" "sick leave" "health insurance"...

Bouncing from job to job is the only option, because employers don't offer anything to be loyal to, if i can't make rent because you don't have enough work for me and barely pay me, then i need to take another job, there is no option. I never lived in a time when there was.

It's hilarious to me that you might set the blame to the younger worker, when there is literally no other option for them to survive.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:21 | 4348760 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I've worked on both sides and there is no ultimate position. I think our government gives us the best lesson for survival...dependency. They see their survival pinned upon having as many people as possible dependent upon them. Some employers see it the same way. As a small employer, I see it exactly from the opposite perspective. I am dependent upon my employees. I put up with a lot from them because I think I need them and see them as not easily replaceable. Now that does not always make me feel really good about my circumstances, sometimes it makes me physically ill knowing that my business's future depends on a few people showing up and doing what is needed. As an employee your goal should be to foster that dependence, to make your employer realize that you are needed and required for him to succeed. This does not happen all at once or even over a few months. Many times it takes years. Its an investment and with all investments it should be done carefully and wisely. The absolutely best circumstance is one where everyone NEEDS everyone else. Where no one is redundant or easily replaceable, for if you are, you will be and now days most likely with technology. Opportunities still exist, just fewer and less obvious. And as always it is damn hard work.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:32 | 4347956 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

“Here, have a crappy job with no benefits, no vacation, no sick pay and no retirement. We’ll pay you so little that you’ll be falling behind with every week that you work from just trying to pay the rent and buy food, and you can look forward to being used up and eventually discarded like a burned-out light bulb.” Gosh, can’t imagine why people aren’t just flocking to jump in and enjoy such a great “opportunity.”

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:57 | 4348535 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I AM 'participating', but it damned well doesn't feel like it...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:10 | 4347905 slotmouth
slotmouth's picture

Brad Pitt is 50 years old.  

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:33 | 4347957 Keyser
Keyser's picture

We all get old and then die. No way around it. Even Brad. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:52 | 4348021 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, but for now, Brad is still working.  As to the younger "Brads", not so much.  That's the point.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:58 | 4348048 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Hollywood is being outsourced. 12,000 layoffs recently in Tinseltown. Not Brad Pitt, of course.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:54 | 4348342 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Whisper Rumor of Chinese Actor who looks EXACTLY like Brad Pitt who Sony Entertainment is sending to the Center for the Arts at Pace University's New York City campus (under James Lipton's tutelage), and then on to Oxford University's English Studies Program...

His stage name is Prad Bitt, he's only 24 & they claim he's already 95% the actor Brad Pitt is and will only charge 50,000 HK$ per full length film.

Remember the name Prad Bitt.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:53 | 4348027 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

No -- only the luck ones get old and die. The others never arrived at old age...




Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:07 | 4348082 B2u
B2u's picture

Who is Brad Pitt?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 23:37 | 4350486 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Brad Pitt is the name Tyler Durden uses when he travels incognito, or with that Marla hussy.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:14 | 4347912 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

Boomers never, ever, EVER willingly give up control/power. Some of this has to do with the fact they have spent most of what they made in life. (And then some). The rest is a belief they are the greatest human beings to ever walk the planet. Uh, reality check please?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:24 | 4347941 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Well ac eye, we built damn near everything you live in and drive on today. Other than looking into a vid screen. wtf can you do?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:32 | 4347955 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

No you didn't.  Perhaps you missed the President's remark that "you didn't build that."


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:48 | 4348002 foodisgood
foodisgood's picture

So boomers were not responsible for how cash has turned to plastic and 15 flavors of spagetti sauce in the grocere? I am one and just because we know what work is does not mean we are not a bunch of naggers due to the idea were are owed some sort of social security.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:58 | 4348050 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

food, not like we asked for the gov to steal that money from us, along with the illegal income tax now is it? I dont want any SS from these bastards but I would sure like all the $ back these slimy fvks stole from me, and my wife and my children and my grandchildren. See where I am going with this?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:11 | 4348089 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Consent is a request. We all consented to the theft. Until consent is withdrawn, we are going to get exactly that to which we are entitled. It will be zilch, if we are lucky.

TPTB thanks you for your consent, and for arguing amongs each other. It makes their job easier.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:01 | 4348060 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

well played.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:41 | 4347975 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Yes, you all did a bang up job. Everything in america is awesome and is in fine shape. Kudos!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:47 | 4347999 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Maintainence is lacking. The powers are not doing their job of infrastructure care and it is crumbling. The only thing I can figure is they want it to. Nothing last forever without maintainence. I believe the enemy is inside the gates and everything youa re seeing falling apart is all by design. As soon as America falls the real tyranny comes into play and we are fvked.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:55 | 4348037 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Just as with all boomers, I'm sure you've convinced yourself you've done nothing wrong and it is someone else's fault.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 23:56 | 4350527 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"All boomers"..........get real.  There is no such thing.  Take Vietnam. Some us went to Hamburger Hill and Hue, some went to Canada, some like me just stayed here and protested and got kicked out of school.

Some boomers are arrogant and irresponsible. Most of those went into politics or the corporate world. Some like me just worked a job and took care of a wife and kids as best we could.  We made a lot of mistakes, one of which was to believe the government, but for the most part we showed up.  Some boomers just never took responsibility for themselves, others faced the day and got over it.

This "all boomers" stuff is as dumb as a paper placemat in a Chinese restaurant, the kind that says "If you were born in 1990, you are a Horse, and probably a Horse's Ass."  As if eveyone born in the same years has the same personal characteristics.

Now eat your moo goo gai pan and face it: The world was screwed up when you came in, and it will be screwed up when you go out.  Try to make it a little less screwy.

One footnote: My kids never saw me pay a bill late or buy something without knowing exactly how I was going to pay for it. Notwithstanding, two of them managed to run up ~$40,000 in credit card debt (each) and one of them went bankrupt, the other is "negotiating with creditors".

One thing you can reflect on is that there are other influences at work on kids today than just their parents.  We're just the ones that get the blame--and the bill.

Tue, 01/21/2014 - 13:54 | 4352041 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

True. I should not have said all boomers. I was wrong to do so.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:05 | 4348242 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

I-Call-You-My-Base: Generational dynamics at work. Necessity creates innovation as we saw with the WWIi generation. After that comes excess and apathy (Boomers). The Boomers were fleeced along with Gen X, Y and Millenials. Collectively as a species, we dont learn from history. I saw this coming in 2007 and I love history. While I fared better than many preparing for the depression my business still suffered. And through inflation I get stolen from every day along with all class of our society.

It is a barbell economy, go lean and downsize and work less and simple or try and break gravity. The latter is harder work because competition is most unwelcome (though some states just now are encouraging start ups) and employees are sue happy supported by the state for taxes (fines). There are other issues some may wish to add. Outside of WW3 I believe by 2021 we'll feel more optimistic. But consider it really has been since 911 that we have had massive inflation, recession and depression. 20 years of tough times. May as well be an eternity.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:44 | 4347985 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

And who do you think INVENTED and developed all that shit you mook!?

Oh that's right... To you the world started on January 1, 1970. (and tell me the significance of that date if you can)


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:13 | 4348098 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

It means Y2038 will be a bigger deal than Y2K.

If there are still any computers around by then...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:24 | 4348126 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture's how governments appear solvent that far out.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:14 | 4348102 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

POSIX Epoch.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:37 | 4348164 Shitters_Full
Shitters_Full's picture

Let me guess...that's the day Nixon decided, "In about 18 months I'm REALLY gonna fuck shit up. Mwahahahaha..."

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:48 | 4348000 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

"we built damn near everything you live in and drive on today"


This is some funny shit.

I would like to express my gratitude for SS, Medicare, Medicaid, NSA, CIA, IRS, DOD, DHS, Endless Wars, Spying, Garbage Fiat, the Fed, Fannie & Freddie, EPA, Department of Commerce, Agriculture, Education, Energy, HHS, HUD, Interior, DOJ, Labor, ZIRP, QE1, QE2, QE3, FEMA Camps, SNAP, LIHEAP, Electronic Voting Machines, The Police State, 20% Unemployment, Inflation, Loss of Purchasing Power, Sky High Rent, Blackstone...........

I'm sure there's more.


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:15 | 4348103 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Cry me a river you sniveling little fvk.Look how many people have died trying to dislodge these central bankers throughout history. Maybe you should put up and shut up, instead of "occupying" wall street. Get some balls and die for your cause.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:03 | 4348225 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

That "small dick complex" is coming through loud and clear. 

Dealing with old pricks like you is part of my job. Let me guess you're on Crestor, Plavix and Warfarin because you ate too many cheeseburgers as a child, you take Sildenafil to get your pecker up to satisfy your wife, Eszopiclone or Zolpidem to get to sleep, Quetiapine to keep you sane, Motoprolol to lower your BP and you watch CTE concussed freaks of nature on Sundays to convince yourself that you're still man. There's a Harley in the garage, an F150 in the driveway, and you spend your days convincing yourself that you're not a waste of protoplasmic membrane plasma barreling through the universe at a million miles an hour on a rock (actual speed 420,000MPH give or take). Yes, you my friend are god's gift to humanity. An old sap that has given the world greatness. Now fuck off and go play at Wal-Mart. 


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:20 | 4348303 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Wrong, @ 58 I take no drugs not even asprin, only go to the dr to get my Class A Cdl updated every 2 years and have no blood problems. (first time ever checked was last year and have low lipids) but dont believe that cholestorol shit anyway. Can still get it up even after 38 years being married to the same ole saddle. How many "mates" you been through?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:19 | 4348357 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Plus, I was lumberjack for 15 years, worked construction the rest of my life and I will kick your smarmy limp wristed ass.


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:36 | 4348466 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

You should do a REAL favor to the younger generations....and put that pent up aggression to the use against the tyrannical .gov YOU (your generation) have allowed to take over our country...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:54 | 4348517 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Maybe the gov  has been taken over by the corps that answer to the banks that answer to the fed that answer to the world bank and IMF that answers to the BIS.  Like I said below, that is a hellova lot of blood letting.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:11 | 4349324 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

The problem with assholes such as yourself is eventually you need "smarmy limp wristed ass" individuals such as myself to keep you alive lol. Keep at it, you're off to flying start. 


Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:52 | 4348456 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture

Jlasoon knows all about being a small dick. Like most Democrats, he/she's much happier now living as a tranny since having that little operation. And it was little! Snip snip!

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:15 | 4349339 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

Do I even have to say something here?



Mon, 01/20/2014 - 23:58 | 4350537 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Well, you could say either "I'm going to be part of the problem" or "I'm going to be part of the solution."

Your choice.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:35 | 4347964 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Bullshit pretty much sums up my thoughts on this post. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:52 | 4348017 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

So you are a child of boomers too? Boomers are almost all hated by their children. Quite the legacy. But they built stuff (that is now all crumbling around them) so they got that going for them. Maybe that will bring them comfort when they die alone.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:04 | 4348072 tradebot
tradebot's picture

Dying is something one has to do by oneself...kinda like when you have sex

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:28 | 4348135 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

We're not dying alone. we build the nukes, remember? KerrrrBLLLlaaammmmm you crybaby little bitchez.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:19 | 4348298 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Actually G.O.O.D. ICBM's were already in existance prior to the Summer of Love when your generation was young.

Anyways, I was having a conversation with a colleague how there really hasnt been any breakthrough inventions since the 1950's. Almost all tech we're using today were breakthroughs from WWII.

Looks like we're on the cusp of some new breakthroughs on medical science and quantum physics which will be amazing but such needs far more funding and I dont see that happening for several more years, then another several to see such inventions created and mass produced. It is just going to be dull for the next decade or so. Boredom can be a fate worse than death...

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:27 | 4348320 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Raging, we have many breakthroughs not allowed by the players in power. Free energy is a huge necessity but big corps and rockefeller types wont allow it, so instead we are forced to frac and destroy the planet so they dont loose control. It is sad. Take a look at just the magnetic generators that have been invented that could be used to bring energy to everyone, clean and damn near free, but it  wont happen until these parasites are destroyed and that is going to take a river of blood.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:27 | 4348445 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

G.O.O.D. - Greed may delay invention but does not stop it. Rockerfellers and Morgan types may buy up the invention early but release it and fund it when the market is right. Innovation is delayed by capital during fascist times and funded when all the megacorps can no longer grow. That is why some states are now encouraging innovation. The tax revenue has got to come from somewhere... Long way to go as said, several years to a more virtuous capital cycle and I say more because certainly capitalism isnt perfect, just a better system than any of the others. Capitalism will improve when banking becomes a utility. That will take time, perhaps we will see it in our lifetime, perhaps not.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:53 | 4348512 11b40
11b40's picture

Plus 1,000.

"Capitalism will improve when banking becomes a utility."

That is it in a nutshell.  General banking is no more complicated than delivering the mail, and it should be de-centralized to the local level.  Only local banks should qualify for any type of government insurance or protection.  Big commercial projects should be funded by a consortium of local bankers, or money raised by risk-takers from Wall St. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:08 | 4348573 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Raging, i see Capitalism as just another failed ism. I dont know the answers but the Native Americans seemed to live faily well until disease and lead poisoning showed up. AFAIAC capitalism destroys more than it builds if the health of the planet is any example. We have destroyed our nest for pieces of paper and digits in a data base.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 15:57 | 4348896 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Over industrialization? Diminishing returns on inventions?

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 17:16 | 4349085 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Well G.O.O.D. : Capitalism fails or decentralizes after a period of wealth concentration. That is inevitable and what should happen then is FAILURE and reorganization.

Our country needs to restore the rule of law, we are a Republic not a Democracy. What happened in 2008 was Fascism not Capitalism. And it happened by government capture, mainly by the banking system. It is decentralizing regardless, but boy did the bank led leadership pork the public before and after 2008!

As for the Indians you are going to tell me they lived peacefully? The Indians never raided one another? History could have easily been different with the Indians first developing large sailing vessels and gunpowder. I find human nature is consistent, always struggling between competition (conquest) and collaboration.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:12 | 4349200 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Rage, agree totally on the Republic not Demo, but the rule of law is based on the justus system and always seems to get perverted as such. No the Indians were not without violence, but their biggie was stealing horses, wives and counting coup which was whacking each other with a stick to acknowledge they could have killed. But the fact they were intune to nature and not trying to take more than the earth will give is what separates us from them. The over reaching of natural resources is fueling the obese epidemic because our food is void of minerals from shocking the soils which leaves people consuming more calories in search of mineral uptake. Now we are eating GMO, breathing chemtrails, fighting wars and drinking toxic water all for more digits in some corps data base. If we would have lived in some kind of balance with nature, I dont think we would be poisoning the planet and having 1 out of 3 people with cancer, which is a true measurement of  success imo.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 14:52 | 4348666 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Tarsubil, I think the hatred you see is really lack of respect. When you give too much to children and spoil them so they have a "happy" life , this is the result. Perhaps there is a bit of fear here too. Realizing you are incapable of making it on your own. Boomer children are unprecedented amount of medication as well. I feel sorry for them in many ways.


Tue, 01/21/2014 - 13:55 | 4352047 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

LOL. Boomers gave too much? Oh dear. Not my experience.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:53 | 4348033 trader1
trader1's picture

future generations will say the same about us.

ad infinitum.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:06 | 4348085 spiral galaxy
spiral galaxy's picture

Nothing to do with control/power .......but a lot to do with being a stable source of income for kids & relatives.   They continue to vote on the charisma and rhetoric and pay for it with confiscation of their income but don't connect the dots.   Concurrently, this is also happening to companies they work for.....confiscation of revenue/profits.     And given that they are the quintessential marking target, the media will do its best to keep them uninformed.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:14 | 4347913 Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades's picture

This is unfair.  You are not counting the jobs Obama has "saved"!



Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:16 | 4347920 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



How he got overlooked for another Nobel Prize this year is beyond me.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:42 | 4347978 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

If you like your job, you can keep your job.

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:44 | 4348363 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

According to Gallup Polling, The current unemployment rate is at 8.0%..... Personally of course, I think it's higher

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:16 | 4347919 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

if you make your living in the black market you at least know what the rules are

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:16 | 4347921 ms8172
ms8172's picture

All I need is $15.00 an hour (min wage) and free healthcare.  What a great Country!  lol

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 10:18 | 4347929 Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades's picture

Don't forget legalized (and taxed) weed. . .

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 11:29 | 4348141 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"....and this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp. And that's all I need!"

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 13:04 | 4348388 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

".....and a car, not an economy car, I really need a V8 Mustang with a stick shift...."

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!