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Mexican Citizens Topple Cartels And Are Rewarded With Government Retaliation

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market blog,

There is one rule to citizen defiance that, in my opinion, surpasses all others in strategic importance; and it is a rule that I have tried to drive home for many years. I would call it the “non-participation principle” and would summarize it as follows:

When facing a corrupt system, provide for yourself and your community those necessities that the system cannot or will not. Become independent from establishment-controlled paradigms. If you and your community do this, the system will have one of two choices:

1)  Admit that you do not need them anymore and fade into the fog of history, OR...

2)  Reveal its tyrannical nature in full and attempt to force you back into dependence.

In either case, the citizenry gains the upper hand. Even in the event of government retaliation or a full-blown shooting war, dissenting movements maintain the moral high ground, which is absolutely vital to legitimate victory. No revolutionary movement for freedom can succeed without honoring this rule. All independent solutions to social destabilization and despotism rely on it. Any solutions that ignore it are destined for failure.

I am hard-pressed to think of a better recent example of the non-participation principle in action than the rise of Mexican citizen militias in the Western state of Michoacan.

Michoacan, like most of Mexico, has long been overrun with violent drug cartels that terrorized private citizens while Mexican authorities did little to nothing in response. I could easily cite the abject corruption of the Mexican government as the primary culprit in the continued dominance of cartel culture. I could also point out the longtime involvement of the CIA in drug trafficking in Mexico and its negative effects on the overall social development of the nation. This is not conspiracy theory, but openly recognized fact.

The Mexican people have nowhere to turn; and this, in my view, has always been by design. Disarmed and suppressed while government-aided cartels bleed the public dry, it is no wonder that many Mexicans have turned to illegal immigration as a means of escape. The Mexican government, in turn, has always fought for a more porous border with the U.S. exactly because it WANTS dissenting and dissatisfied citizens to run to the United States instead of staying and fighting back. My personal distaste for illegal immigration has always been predicated on the fact that it allows the criminal oligarchy within Mexico to continue unabated without opposition. Unhappy Mexicans can simply run away from their problems to America and feed off our wide-open welfare system. They are not forced to confront the tyranny within their own country. Under this paradigm, Mexico would never change for the better.

Some in the Mexican public, however, have been courageous enough to stay and fight back against rampant theft, kidnapping and murder.

The people of Michoacan, fed up with the fear and subjugation of the cartels and the inaction of the government, have taken a page from the American Revolution, organizing citizen militias that have now driven cartels from the region almost entirely. These militias have decided to no longer rely upon government intervention and have taken independent action outside of the forced authoritarian structure.

The fantastic measure of this accomplishment is not appreciated by many people in America. Though many cartels are populated by well-trained former Mexican military special ops and even covert operations agents, the citizens of Michoacan have proven that the cartels are a paper tiger. They can be defeated through guerrilla tactics and force of will, which many nihilists often deny is even possible.

NPR reported:

Joel Gutierrez, a militia member of the Michoacan region, says residents were “sick of the cartel kidnapping, murdering and stealing.”

“That’s why we took up arms,” says Gutierrez, 19. “The local and state police did nothing to protect us.”

 

The militia men have been patrolling their towns and inspecting cars at checkpoints like this one for nearly a year. All that time, federal police did little to stop them, and at times seemed to encourage the movement.

 

But that tacit approval appeared to end last weekend, when the number of the militias mushroomed and surrounded Apatzingan, a town of 100,000 people and the Knights Templar’s stronghold. A major battle between the militias and the cartel seemed imminent.

 

The federal government sent in thousands of police and troops to disarm the civilian patrols. A deadly confrontation ensued. Federal soldiers fired into a crowd of civilian militia supporters, killing two.

 

Militia leader Estanislao Beltran says the government should have gone after the real criminals, the Knights Templar, and not those defending themselves. He vehemently denies rumors that he takes funds from a rival group.

 

“The cartels have been terrorizing us for more than a decade,” Beltran says. “Why would we side with any of them?”

Initially, local authorities encouraged the militias, or stayed out of their way. The citizens armed themselves with semi-automatic weapons, risking government reprisal, in order to defend their homes; and so far, they have been victorious. One would think that the federal government of Mexico would be enthusiastic about such victories against the cartels they claim to have been fighting against for decades; but when common citizens take control of their own destinies, this often incurs the wrath of the establishment as well.

The Mexican government has decided to reward the brave people of Michoacan with the threat of military invasion and disarmament.

In some cases, government forces have indeed fired upon militia supporters, killing innocents while exposing the true intentions of the Mexican political structure.

Mainstream media coverage of the situation in the western states of Mexico has been minimal at best; and I find the more I learn about the movement in the region, the more I find a kinship with them. Whether we realize it or not, we are fighting the same fight. We are working toward the same goal of liberty, though we speak different languages and herald from different cultures. Recent government propaganda accusing Michoacan militias of “working with rival cartels” should ring familiar with those of us in the American liberty movement. We are the new “terrorists,” the new bogeymen of the faltering American epoch. We are painted as the villains; and in this, strangely, I find a considerable amount of solace.

If the liberty movement were not effective in its activism, if we did not present a legitimate threat to the criminal establishment, they would simply ignore us rather than seek to vilify us.

The militias of Michoacan have taken a stand. They have drawn their line in the sand, and I wish I could fight alongside them. Of course, we have our own fight and our own enemies to contend with here in the United States. As this fight develops, we have much to learn from the events in Western Mexico. Government retaliation has been met with widespread anger from coast to coast. And despite the general mainstream media mitigation of coverage, the American public is beginning to rally around the people of Michoacan as well. The non-participation principle prevails yet again.

The liberty movement in the U.S. must begin providing mutual aid and self-defense measures in a localized fashion if we have any hope of supplanting the effects of globalization and centralized Federal totalitarianism. We must begin constructing our own neighborhood watches, our own emergency response teams, our own food and medical supply stores, and our own alternative economies and trade markets that do not rely on controlled networks. We must break from the system and, in the process, break the system entirely.

Even now, we are beginning to understand the subversive transformation of our own law enforcement structure, and find a system designed to protect the criminal establishment, not the people.  The FBI, for example, has recently changed the language of its primary mission statement, claiming that their goal is "national security", not law enforcement.

Police department across the U.S. are also changing how they interpret their mandate.  U.S. courts have ruled that police departments do not have a constitutional duty to protect citizens from harm, rather, they simply exist to enforce legal code after a crime has already been perpetrated.  This means that local police are no longer considered "peace officers", but agents of bureaucracy who are not necessarily required to defend the citizenry from violent action.  The terrors Mexican citizens face in Michoacan are coming to America, and if disarmament proponents have their way, we will have no means to stop it.

I am growing increasingly exhausted with the incessant rationalizations of frightened activists posing as non-aggression proponents; the same kinds of people who refuse to even entertain the probability that physical self defense will be needed against corrupt government. The pungent smog of cowardice that follows them curls the nostrils, and the obvious transparency of their fear is a bit sickening. I wish I could convey how refreshing it is to witness a group of common people, regardless of nationality, with a set of brass ball bearings large enough to face off against government supported drug cartels notorious for mass murder and decapitation.

If you want see into the future, into the destiny of America, I suggest you examine carefully the developments of the Michoacan region. It is no mistake that good men and women are being disarmed around the world, and America is certainly not exempt. Look at what happens when we are not helpless! We can crush cold and calculating drug cartels as easily as we can crush psychopathic government entities. We are capable of superhuman feats. We are capable of globalist overthrow. We are capable of unthinkable greatness, as long as we are not distracted by false solutions and false leaders who lure us away from localized action towards centralized non-events.

The rise of Mexican non-participation groups gives me much hope for the future. For if the most corrupt and criminally saturated of societies can find it within themselves to fight, to truly fight, regardless of the obstacles and regardless of the supposed consequences, then there is a chance for us all. We must look beyond the odds of success and become men — real men — once again. We must face down evil, without reservation and without apprehension first by separating from the system, and then by standing our ground. We must be willing to risk everything; otherwise, there is absolutely nothing to gain.

 

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Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:24 | 4357045 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Coming soon to a U.S. area near you.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:34 | 4357072 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

It is very dangerous messing with any organized criminal gangs, including (especially) the ones who rule us.

Don't do it.  Keep your heads down, make, save and hide your money.  

Raise your kids well.

Do not fight the "Big Rhino", play tai chi with it...

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:43 | 4357099 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Author doesn't know anything about Mexico apparently. You think the Mexican military fights against the cartels? 

http://www.amazon.com/Murder-City-Ciudad-Economys-Killing/dp/1568586450/...

^ might be informative

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:49 | 4357115 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

The author did make this point: "The Mexican government has decided to reward the brave people of Michoacan with the threat of military invasion and disarmament."

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:53 | 4357128 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Pobre México, tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos.

Poor Mexico.  So far from god, and so close to the United States.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:58 | 4357138 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Poor Mexico.  So far from god, and so close to the United States.

Too close. 

http://www.seattlepi.com/technology/businessinsider/article/CONFIRMED-Th...

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:10 | 4357167 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

It's nice to see this story finally get some attention.  The US corporate media complex seems to have completely missed it (shocking, I know).

This is going to piss-off a whole bunch of Mexicans.  It's also the kind of thing that will probably result in the beginnings of a serious anti-government resistance.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:23 | 4357222 logicalman
logicalman's picture

They mostly miss what they are told to miss and accidentally miss a whole bunch of interesting stuff.

Never miss a Kardashian though.

Funny, that.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:30 | 4357243 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I'm very curious to see how many Mexicans miss the military firing on citizen/self-defense groups and leaving them defenseless though. . .  

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:37 | 4357269 logicalman
logicalman's picture

The one's that miss it will be the one's it's hidden from by controlled MSM, just like everywhere else.

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:40 | 4357673 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

-Samuel Adams

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:37 | 4357483 Vet4RonPaul
Vet4RonPaul's picture

Never doubt that a nation's military will fire on its citizens when ordered to do so.  I served 4 years active in the US machine and I have no doubt that they would not spend two seconds pondering if they should obey the order to fire on US citizens (or anyone else for that matter).  Following orders is much more than a duty or way of working; it becomes instinctive.  My dog spends more time weighing right or wrong when processing a command than those in the military.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 00:17 | 4357934 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

As a veteran who was a one enlistment, 6 years, civilian soldier, I agree. I never saw anything to make me believe that the senior officers and senior enlisted ranks would not both order and carry out the widescale shooting of American citizens IF those citizens were carrying out activites that could threaten the wealth and happiness of the 1% elite corporate class. Now a days that is even more likely, as military is all volunteer, professional and beholding in no way to the civilian citizen. IN FACT, todays troops are told they are a special person, with special status. In my day we were citizens doing a tour of duty, loal to our families and friends at home. Today, loyalty is to the warrior class, meaning the particular branch of service you are in. Once we stopped calling our troops, troops and soldiers, and started giving them warrior status, we headed in a direction where the military is dangerously detached from civilian life. WE, after all, pay for everything they have, WE support them and their families, and many of us are veterans. Sadly, our cops serve the elite 1% and I believe our military now does to. They would shoot us all in an eye blink if ordered to. But then, if they shoot us, who in the fuck is going to pay them every month, and pay for their families medical care and all those benefits after seperation from service?

America is fascist, we need to accept that, because the fascist rot is now so deeply set into government, the military and our professional spy apparatus that we may never go back to a free country. Any man in America claiming to be free, is either blind or a fool. The NSA, by proven fact, is recording this post, putting it into their "read file" due to key word usage. It WILL be read, and my name will get one more red mark against the "Shoot to kill when the time comes" list.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 01:18 | 4358015 DoubleTap
DoubleTap's picture

I agree.

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers–normally good Americans, but Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free – Americans who have been lulled away into a false security.

-Ezra Taft Benson

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 07:24 | 4358251 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

there would be a simple, and politically very, very painful solution to that: bring back the citizen soldier. it's called the draft

(meanwhile I continue to shake my head about the use of the word fascist in the American political discourse. it's a good word to describe it superficially, but it has nothing to do with the goals, methods and reasonings of the fascists on the european continent. it starts with the fact that a true fascist is proud of this label, and very critical of liberal financialist & capitalistic setups like the one the US has. it goes even further with the fact that fascists advocate a certain degree of autarchy, i.e. are against free trade. further, they would shoot anyone that would even suggest to shift jobs overseas. the list is endless. what imho ails the US is not fascism, it's a corruption of liberalism and capitalism by extreme financialism, powered by further corruption in the nexus between banks and financial/monetary policy and the military/security/prison industries)

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 12:07 | 4359036 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The draft is equivalent to involuntary servitude.  How exactly does enslaving people, even temporarily, solve anything at all?  It was always a stupid idea.  What you statists can't get through your heads is that both options are wrong--we simply don't need big government at all, or its gigantic army.  Idiot!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 08:35 | 4358294 Spanky
Spanky's picture

-1

Because...

No reference to Oathkeepers.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 12:44 | 4359169 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Bullshit.  Oathkeepers violate the constitution every day.  That have to violate it to keep their jobs.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 00:50 | 4357984 Freddie
Freddie's picture

These folks in Mexico have my total respect.  The govts, including the USSA, are in business with all the global drug cartels.  The policticians and govt get their cut. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 12:08 | 4359039 aerojet
aerojet's picture

They have your respect for now, but then that movement will get corrupted and it will all circle right back around.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:18 | 4357614 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Armed private citizens are clearly a threat to a heavy handed government, regardless of being north or south of the Rio Grande.  I suspect TPTB in DC are getting a rude wake up call as to what they might face here in the US.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 02:51 | 4358095 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Televisa, which has deep ties to Peña Nieto, aired an interview with the head of one of the auto-defensas in Michoacan, in the interview he stated that they were ready to lay down their arms as soon as the government arrested the heads of the Caballeros Templadosn cartel, Televisa cut 6 seconds out of the interview to make it sound like he just said that they were ready to lay down their arms. This is the same Televisa whose vans were caught smuggling 9 million dollars in cash into Nicaragua 2 years ago. Mexico's no more corrupt than the US, they're just a little less organized about it.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:49 | 4357119 max2205
max2205's picture

If Barry gets the idea, Mexico will be the lower lower 48

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 03:12 | 4358115 DontGive
Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:45 | 4357304 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

So yeah, I'm pretty sure he said the militias are fighting the cartels and that the state (police/military) have intervened or threatened to intervene, seemingling on the side of the cartels.  What did you read?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:05 | 4357374 AL_SWEARENGEN
AL_SWEARENGEN's picture

What a riot. I can just imagine it.  All three groups face off.  Drop your weapons!  No you drop YOUR weapons!  No YOU drop YOUR weapons!  Around and around until some cocksucker (government worker) starts firing.  Is that what they call getting results?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:09 | 4357389 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

A 'Mexican standoff'' !!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 03:07 | 4358112 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

I recall three such standoffs depicted in movies. Two had Harvey Keitel, I think (Reservoir Dogs and another set in a kitchen, I think), and one in The Rock (Sean Connery, Nicolas Cage, and another actor I like). All were chilling, especially the last.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:44 | 4357105 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

A well armed society is a polite society.

   Bayard Taylor ( early sci fi )

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:53 | 4357126 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

Robert Heinlein

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:27 | 4357235 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Best defense is good offense.

Mel, cook on Alice

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 03:35 | 4358137 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Teacher: Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep. Approach me that you might see.

Ed Gruberman: All right! Finally some action!

Teacher: Observe closely, class. Boot to the Head! (SH-ZOOMP!)

Ed Gruberman (drunkenly): Owww! You booted me in the head!

Teacher: You are lucky, Ed Gruberman. Few novices experience so much of Ti Kwan Leep so soon.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 06:57 | 4358227 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Doctor, you are dementing!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 04:16 | 4358164 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.

 

-Barack Hussein Obama

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 11:22 | 4358825 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

That was Clint in the "The Good The Bad and the Ugly"

Mon, 01/27/2014 - 15:04 | 4372013 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Denis Lery in The Ref?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 05:18 | 4358191 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

you're quoting Feldmarschall Rommel

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:02 | 4357143 Overfed
Overfed's picture

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his actions with his life. --Robert Heinlein, "Beyond this Horizon"

 

--edit--Ya' hit the post button quicker than I could. :-)  ^^

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:14 | 4357188 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

You guys are good.   Here's a fun one.

"Isn't it pretty to think so."

Used almost simultaneously by Steinbeck and Hemingway,

who probably cribbed it from Kipling (in the Boar Wars)

who clearly stole it from Shakespeare;)

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:25 | 4357227 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I only know the easy ones. :-)

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:12 | 4357175 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Wow!  A Bayard Taylor reference!  You could knock me over with a feather right now.  I didn't think ANYONE read any of his stuff any more.

I used to live near his old estate just north of Kennett Square, PA.  Worked on his property when I was kid, mowing the lawn and raking leaves.  He was 100 years in the grave at that point, but his estate, called 'Cedarcroft', is still there, as is the gatehouse and the road connecting them.  The neighborhood built on his old lands around it bears the same name, as you can imagine.  And that's where I lived when I was a kid.  That estate was one my first customers when I started my old landscaping business.  Across the street was one of the distant heirs of the Hess family fortune, who I also did work for (and she would sometimes take me for a spin in her old 58 Caddy when the weather was nice).

The Wiki on him, if you're interested in learning more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Taylor

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:26 | 4357233 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

That is quite a bio. What a time to live, and what a life he lived. Will add to reading wish list.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:33 | 4357257 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I've found many of my favorite authors through quotations.

Get a Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, 70s or earlier before they became PC and full of the usual political crap, and you will find some great stuff.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:57 | 4357349 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Kaiserhof   - another great source of excellent reading is archive.org - just about every out-of-copyight book ever published in English (quite literally), and many in German, Spanish and French, most available as PDF downloads. Plus a whole lot of other great materials - songs, films, etc. Have fun!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:36 | 4357266 Misean
Misean's picture

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:52 | 4357711 logically possible
logically possible's picture

Conceal Carry? We don't need no Conceal Carry. I have a constitution that says so.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 05:21 | 4358193 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

at this point does it really matter? ;)

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 00:36 | 4357965 European American
European American's picture

Armed Citizens and a Fascist Police State cannot coexist.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:48 | 4357111 ACP
ACP's picture

Obama to Mexican president: You learn quickly, grasshopper.

 

This, as well as the news that no charges will be filed against the shit cops who shot an innocent driver while the cops were looking for Dorner, is just maddening. They didn't even try to identify the target and didn't even get the color of his truck right. So, if you're ever in LA and driving the same make and model car, but not necessarily color, as a wanted criminal, they can now shoot you without even checking to see who's driving the vehicle.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:04 | 4357151 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Hell, it wasn't even the same make and model.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:25 | 4357228 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Didn't the LAPD pay $6mil to settle the pending civil suit though?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:40 | 4357284 mumcard
mumcard's picture

If you and I shot up a cop's car with his family inside would 6 million settle it up for us?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:26 | 4357451 ACP
ACP's picture

Exactly. Those fuckers won't even be charged with negligent discharge of a firearm.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 07:00 | 4358229 Zadok
Zadok's picture

6 mil and two hides...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 05:27 | 4358196 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Cost of doing business, paid for with a printed grant from Uncle Sugar Daddy.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 02:07 | 4358060 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Dorner ended up committing "suicide" by "self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the head" after they "accidentally" blew up his cabin with "tear-gas". - http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/15/us/california-dorner-death/index.html?...

At around 5 a.m., the mother and daughter’s blue Toyota rolled slowly down Redbeam Avenue. Carranza was at the wheel, her window rolled down as she tossed newspapers toward front doors. Her mother was seated behind her, rolling the newspapers up. The mayhem began when police stationed on the block somehow mistook the Toyota for a gray Nissan Titan, the vehicle Dorner was said to be driving.

...Hernandez was shot twice in the back, and Carranza was injured by broken glass... Beck called the shooting "a tragic misinterpretation" by officers working under "incredible tension" hours after Dorner allegedly shot police officers. He promised to provide a truck from a donor regardless of potential litigation by the women....Jonas has described his clients as receiving “no commands, no instructions and no opportunity for surrender” as they went down the street. He has also said their vehicle's headlights were on. When police opened fire, he said, the truck’s cabin became a storm of bullets, shattered glass and plastic.
“Margie is screaming ‘we are being shot at, we are being shot at!’ Jonas said. “Then she screamed out, ‘I am just the newspaper woman, I am the newspaper woman!’” - http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/11/local/la-me-dorner-truck-20130312

What happened to the police that shot this innocent 71 year old lady in the back, Twice?...

FUCK THE PIGS

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 14:41 | 4359675 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

if anything I would interpret this not just as a mistake shooting the wrong person.
This was a large-scale retaliation to show anyone who stands up to the corrupt cops who murder & rape will in fact have brought MORE shooting upon random people, intentionally, by those murderers with badges in Los Angeles.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 14:39 | 4359670 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a recipe to make another Dorner.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:52 | 4357125 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

Except autodefensas only reacted when 1. cartels 'borrowed' women and children, i.e. you get a call 'make sure your daughter is bathed tonight, because i am coming for her in the morning, hehehehe." and 2. 'taxes' extracted by cartels are onerous--avocado orchard owners are forced to deed over their highly productive land to the knights. etc. etc. 

head in sand leaves your ass up for the taking.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:55 | 4357132 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

We don't go looking for trouble, but what do we do when trouble comes looking for us?

Cower in fear? You are free to try that yourself, but you will find that that approach will not work.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:24 | 4357225 seek
seek's picture

“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!”

- Dr. Suess

A lesson so basic it's in children's books.

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 23:46 | 4357880 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I try to stay out of trouble's way.  But, Dr. Suess has that right, that's why I have my guns.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:58 | 4357136 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

The citizen defense groups that are retaking their towns in Michoacan and elsewhere tolerated a myriad of abuses up until the cartel gangsters started raping their wives and daughters. THEN they said enough. Too late if you ask me. But better late than never.

My neighborhood's idea of playing tai chi with the rhino is getting our picture taken while we stand next to the rhino carcass hanging off the tailgate of my truck.

These guys do a great job of reporting on the bad guys down south.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:21 | 4357216 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Thanks for the source.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:57 | 4357347 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Especially dangerous when it's the Cartel/Bundler supported by our Potus. Fast and Furious was only one aspect of the tie-in.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:22 | 4357439 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Yes, and understand that because it's all about money, taking it away from the powers that be, in a way that they can ultimately do nothing about, is the surest way to victory:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/why-bitcoin-matters

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 14:33 | 4359657 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

that's just giving them power - they control bitcoin.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:22 | 4357628 CoonT
CoonT's picture

Those militia men and women are in danger of having...a near-life experience!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:34 | 4357075 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

doubt it.  americans are cowards

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:44 | 4357104 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

"Even in the event of government retaliation or a full-blown shooting war, dissenting movements maintain the moral high ground, which is absolutely vital to legitimate victory. No revolutionary movement for freedom can succeed without honoring this rule."

 

So this means the dissenting movements against Chavez' communism had the moral low ground, since they lost.  Then there was all that Turkish confiscation of Greek citizen houses on Cyprus.  Those families must have had the moral low ground.

 

God fights on the side of the biggest artillery.  There is no other lesson to learn.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 01:14 | 4358012 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

The last scene was interesting from the point of view of a professional logician because it contained a number of logical fallacies; that is, invalid propositional constructions and syllogistic forms, of the type so often committed by my wife. "All wood burns," states Sir Bedevere. "Therefore," he concludes, "all that burns is wood." This is, of course, pure bullshit. Universal affirmatives can only be partially converted: all of Alma Cogan is dead, but only some of the class of dead people are Alma Cogan. "Oh yes," one would think.

He said all dissenting movements must maintain the moral high ground in order to win. He did NOT SAY that maintaining the high ground was sufficient to win, NOR did he say the winners in any battle had held the high ground.

Please return to logic class, until you can understand at least a simple, cloth-eared syllogism.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 07:05 | 4358233 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Perfect!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 09:55 | 4358528 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Hitler had the moral high ground against the bolshevik jews and zionist controlled British and Americans. It didn't do him any good and led to the slaughter of millions of German women and children, as well as whole cities filled with priceless architectual treasures. Now, that communism has spread over the entire world, enslaving all in a debt fueled orgy and transfer of wealth. 

Law and money are jewish weapons of choice. Pretty stupid to maintain societies contolled with these two weapons.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 14:32 | 4359653 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

gassing people, torturing them & executing them for not being Aryan is NOT A MORAL HIGH GROUND.

You're pretty fucked in the head.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 15:59 | 4359700 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Which doesn't begin to compare with what the allies did to the Germans. Stop reading the zionist history and start reading the history that has been hidden from you. Start with "Hitler's War" by David Irving. Hitler's actions were predicated on Bolshevik jew and British atrocities. Further, he didn't kill them for not being Aryan, what a rube. The World Jewish Congress declared war on Germany in 1933, which included assassinations and economic sabotage, what we would classify today as terrorists. I guess you know nothing of the german and polish women and children that were raped, tortured, crucified on barn doors and then shot?  The execution of german prisoners? 

The Jews are responsible for the worst holocaust in history: the killing of between 25 and 40 million Russians. 

You're pretty brainwashed.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 19:48 | 4360735 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Compares as about a billion times worse than what happened to the Germans, and the Germans struck first.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:18 | 4360806 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Wow, you really are ignorant. Read some history my boy and get your mouth off that zionist cock. It will do you a world of good.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:10 | 4357168 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

We ain't cowards, we just still have too much stuff to lose. Once that's all gone we will be some mean mofo's. At least we know whats worth fighting for and it ain't a flat screen TV.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:29 | 4357240 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

They may just set themselves up perfectly for us. Soon I hope. Getting bored.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:01 | 4357366 F.A. Hayek
F.A. Hayek's picture

+1 for being a masshole

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:42 | 4357291 Drifter
Drifter's picture

So you're admitting "patriots" won't revolt till they've lost everything.  I agree, they won't.   I doubt they'll revolt even then.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:16 | 4357204 F.A. Hayek
F.A. Hayek's picture

Ask the Europeans if they're still enjoying their Normandy Invasion.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:35 | 4357259 seek
seek's picture

Many years ago I worked with a very euro-centric uber-left pacifist that believed the 2nd should be repealed, socialism was perfect, yadda yadda. You know the type.

He obviously didn't own a gun. The day after his daughter was raped, he actually ran across the rapist in his neighborhood. He told me with a certainty I've never heard in anyone else's voice before or since that had he been armed, the man would be dead. When this shit gets personal, there will be retaliation.

I have no doubt that if anything like cartel rape gangs surfaces in the US, that not only will retaliation like what's happening in Mexico occur, it'll be on a scale that will be unmanagable by any law enforcement entity, and they'll just let it play out like the LA riots. As my ex frequently would say about her kids, "don't mess with mama bear." Or papa bear.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:42 | 4357294 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I've seen that too (not a rape thankfully) after a physical crime. The transformation is a glory to behold. It is like watching Pajama Boy turn into the love child of BJ Penn and Georges St-Pierre on fight night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksXmo-xrfmQ

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:05 | 4357379 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Not sure I'd care if I had a firearm with me should I run across the rapist of my daughter, just sayin.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:13 | 4357407 seek
seek's picture

As you might imagine from my description, the fellow was ill-prepared for a fight with someone half his age and twice his weight with violent tendancies.

This happened before cell phones were very common. The saddest thing about the mess to me was that he relied on the police, and they did absolutely nothing -- even after being notified of the current exact location of the rapist, they took more than a hour to respond. It was a huge wake up call for the guy.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:22 | 4357438 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Which is why I always love the police defenders "But but but!  What are you going to do when you need their help?" 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 07:10 | 4358239 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Defenders of the perps, victimizers of the victims. Yes, whats not to love?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:02 | 4357565 dirtscratcher
dirtscratcher's picture

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:16 | 4357608 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Several dozen minutes, in my neighborhood.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 23:02 | 4357749 seek
seek's picture

They prioritize by severity. In my neighborhood I was able to look up response times -- something on the level of "murder in progress" was 12-15 minutes. Burglaries in progress were a couple tiers down in priority, and have a response time of just under one hour.

Virtually everyone on my street (hell, my town) is armed and the bad guys know it. Crime is low.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:41 | 4357492 gwar5
gwar5's picture

If white people were conscious enough to rise up and threaten riots every time an OJ got off for murder, or a random white person was flash mobbed and knocked out by a black gang, then maybe our public servants would be more responsive all the way around. Seems only the social justice crowd is allowed to riot uninterrruped for days over the slightest provocation. 

 

 

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:52 | 4357713 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Well, it's easy for most of them to riot uninterrupted for days when they don't have jobs and they don't work.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 23:11 | 4357770 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Fuck you only 97% of Americans are cowards.  We only need III% bitch!

If you told the world 400 years ago that a small group of Patriots in a distant land would defeat the "greatest" countryin the world people would laugh.  That spirit in in our hearts and for some of us in our veins.  This republic shall NOT fall!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:38 | 4357087 Spinelli
Spinelli's picture

Its already here, why you think they want your guns?

Also our government is also part of the drug cartel soo......

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:09 | 4357123 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Right.  And this article is written without mentioning the fact that for over 100 years the US has had an unacknowledged policy of destabilising Mexico.  Otherwise, believe that the CIA operates everywhere in the world yet somehow overlooked our next door neighbor Mexico.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 07:18 | 4358245 Zadok
Zadok's picture

It IS the drug cartel, and the money master, and the child sex slavery cartel, and the extortion cartel, and the violence cartel, and..., and...it ends when peoples hearts get lined up to liberty and justice for all. Really just 3-5% is required, give or take 20% will get on board when victory has largely been won, and the rest that live will hope their cowardess is not remembered as they enjoy the benefits earned by better men.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:40 | 4357092 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

The war on drugs has failed... The US government is the worlds biggest drug runner. The people suffer while they take the profit and lock up kids for smoking joints, disgusting.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:12 | 4357178 purplefrog
purplefrog's picture

Umm.  Failed from whose perspective?  Seems to me the the gobmit is getting what it wants.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:58 | 4357546 KickIce
KickIce's picture

No kidding, that's like reading another article on why QE has failed.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:49 | 4357522 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

What the goverment says & the government does are two different things.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:36 | 4357671 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You can thank the 'Arbusto' family/cartel.  The old man ran the DEA in Miami, before he ran the CIA.

Coincidence?  I think not!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:01 | 4357098 Rider
Rider's picture

Being there, and in the state of Guerrero.

I recall this local story of a victim of kidnapping by a famous cartel members, succesfully escaping the security house where he was retained, just to reach the town police HQ and being TURNED BACK TO THE CRIMINALS BY THE CROOCKED STATE POLICEMEN! 

This is not a movie, its reality,  a reality you will do everything and anything to change. 

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:25 | 4357631 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@wisehiney: "Coming soon to a U.S. area near you."

Is there an iRevolt App for that?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:44 | 4357684 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Flash Mob App

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:34 | 4357664 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Mexico is shit hole because of the Mexican Government!  Much like the path that our current administartion is taking us down.  After reading this I am almost thinking of moving to Mexico and helping the freedom fighters down there and let Amerika fall under the monkey in chief.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:26 | 4357054 Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

A system can only take so much abuse before a serious correction takes place. Local patriots with weapons seems to be that corrective action.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:41 | 4357091 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

What do 'patriots/patritoism' have to do with it?

'Locals' will suffice.

Fuck the patriotism, it's the CIA in the first place who are behind these cartels.

Patriots = statists.

Time to leave that paradigm behind.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:07 | 4357159 Overfed
Overfed's picture

The CIA AND the DEA/DOJ/State Dept.. Cocksuckers should die in a fire.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:44 | 4357305 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I talked to a retired American marine who said he guarded drug transport planes in Honduras, and when he was stationed in Panama he guarded a warehouse with pallets of cocaine. He said Noriega got nicked because he got uppity and was stealing too much from the US operations.

 

This was about the same time Clinton was governor of Arkansas and the little town of Mena, Arkansas was used as an isolated landing strip for Federal drug running. Clinton dutifully covered up what was going on in his state by any means neccessary.

http://etherzone.com/1998/reich3.html

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:01 | 4357363 Overfed
Overfed's picture

There is a lot of truth in that article/blog, but it is incredibly sloppy, and has a couple of incorrect points. Search around, there are much better, very  much more accurate treatises written on that subject.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:29 | 4357433 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Sorry, I already knew the stories from when Clinton was president so I pretty much grabbed a random supportive link near the top of the list after just googling:   Mena, Arkansas, drugs

 

From just those key words one can take their pick of many. Lots and lots of same for anyone who doesn't know the fascinating story -- CIA, black ops, trail of dead bodies, local corruption, it's got is all.   


Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:19 | 4357621 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

we did way more than guard and transport for Noriega!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 01:04 | 4358001 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yup.  And who is in love with Bill Clinton and loves him as a son?  Ma and Pa Bush. Pa Bush was involved in Mena.

The Bushes, Clintons and Obama are the same skull and bones - alphabet spy agency NWO Iluminati gang.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:42 | 4357677 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@jimmytorpedo: "'Locals' will suffice."  I agree with that, and with whoever once said "A 100 patriot is a 100% idiot".

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:29 | 4357059 chump666
chump666's picture

I have so much respect for the vigilante and militia groups of Mexico protecting their liberty against the disgusting cronies and drug fiends that have destroyed that country.

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:32 | 4357068 Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

I wonder how many of their guns came courtesy of the Fast and Furious program?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:12 | 4357179 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Just the expensive ones. We sold them the good stuff.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:14 | 4357193 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I highly doubt F&F was implemented to arm the "resistance."  

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:40 | 4357285 seek
seek's picture

None. Those guns were given to the cartels, not those fighting them.

So... the US Federal government is supplying rifles used for putting bullets into peasants defending themselves against the US-supported drug cartels raping their families.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 00:00 | 4357910 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

It's really sick.  Arming the bad guys.  About as low as one can go.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:31 | 4357066 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I will not participate in any "non violence" protests. No way I going to be a sitting duck for some armed thugs in a costume.
When everyone is ready to fight back , I will be there. Probably more dangerous but the results will be much better.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:47 | 4357108 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Oh come on now ... surely standing in the designated "protest cage" during the designated time period waiving an "acceptable" sign will achieve much better results  /sarc

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:47 | 4357309 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Just because someone protests in a 'designated area' doesn't mean they don't protest elsewhere and in different ways.

Simplistic to think otherwise.

It may be a waste of time, but at least they are trying, which is more than most do.

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:39 | 4357085 Spinelli
Spinelli's picture

PLEASE GET ONE FACT STRAIGHT!!

PLEASE!!!

Ive worked with mexicans my whole life, ive been there, have freinds from their, and even had refugees staying in my own home.

do NOT say the "mexican government" wont help against the "drug cartels"

THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT IS OR IS OWNED BY THE DRUG CARTEL!!!!

solution? Legalize drugs in america? Pretty sure WE are their market....

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:43 | 4357096 Four chan
Four chan's picture

this has always been the solution.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 22:57 | 4357692 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yeah, for those with balls and brains to implement it: 

A.  Instant Justice for Dealers  --> [Boom!]

B.  Instant ticket to Camp FEMA for Users.  6 month stay for first offense.  2 Year labor camp for each additional offense.

C. Furlough a veritable army of LEA, Judiciary, Penitentiary, Medical and other personnel, whose careers are based on a parasitic relationship to drug Dealers and Users.

QED

p.s. You'll get more flack from (C) than from (A) or (B).  /sarc

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 03:24 | 4358128 the0ther
the0ther's picture

Try and take my dope I dare you

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 10:11 | 4358579 CJHames
CJHames's picture

Ok, let's be real here.  How many of us clicked on Four chan's photo to see if it got bigger? I clicked on it so many times (hoping it got larger) I ended up on some website selling goat cheese.  Damn, what was I talking about?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:58 | 4357135 chump666
chump666's picture

I agree.  And rather than us setting up a forever war in some sh*thole backwater country.  You had one set up in your backyard.  Appalling situation.  That and they drug cartels are now branching into ion ore mining and exports. 

All drugs should be legalized.  Illegality of narcotics leads to corruption and turmoil.  But I wanna say this much every citizen has a right to protect him/herself against tyranny, corruption and all out crony madness.  We should be able to arm and at times overthrow the 'rulers'

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:30 | 4357242 logicalman
logicalman's picture

We need to reject the concept of leaders.

Take responsibility for our actions and hurt no-one deliberately or negligently.

Be prepared to do something, however small, to fight back against tyranical groups.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 10:07 | 4358564 CJHames
CJHames's picture

Uhhh ... you speak so purdy.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:25 | 4360824 Spinelli
Spinelli's picture

LOL!!!!! it made me teary eyed O.o

*sniff* if everyone could just atleast think like that? no...?

But america too stupid D: parents are... welll retarted? my sister just got back from hospitol D: did u know parents biting their babies severely is common? wtf? sometimes so bad they leave permenant marks O.O.. my sister told me about this because she saw it on this dead boys body? the parents were playing video games and constantly kept dropping the baby on the ground also..

yeah.. and then mad at the brain damage he was accumulating at age 3 the stepdad beat the child to death because he couldnt stand "normal"... he told the cops he "only ment to beat the child an inch of his death" the mother just said "a boy pushed him down the stairs (SERIOUSLY)"

Anyway... if you think im making this up message me it was in minnesota and my sister was the nurse... but aparantly these kind of cases are VERY VERY common... because i was inraged and asked what happened to the parents?

Mother got 4 years.

step dad got 120 months with possibility of bail

dad got 0 years

I think our problem is fucking deap... drugs need to be legal and all this legal bullshit be done with, i did heavy research well.. i talked alot to my sister and we found online blogs from family members and they got so little time because they were on marijuana?!?!?!?!? because they "wernt in their right mind"

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!? MARIJUANA DOES NOT MAKE YOU MURDER YOUR KIDS?

Our inbred politicians give more time out to weed dealers (in some cases) than people who slowly and progressivly torture and murder their child? and because they are a "user"

SIGHHHHHH the tears have been replaced with either rage or depression, i cant tell O.o

http://lightingtheirwayhome.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/devin-drake-was-hor...

I recomend not reading the article.. read the title its enough.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:11 | 4357177 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Not only is the Mexican gov't compromised by the cartels, they do as they are told by the US gov't. Things that make ya' go hmmmm.....

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:13 | 4357186 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Does that mean we will grow more pot and make more meth in the states again, or is this more NAFTA?

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:14 | 4357406 chubbar
chubbar's picture

But you fail to recognize that the U.S. is running the drugs! They don't want legalized drugs in the U.S., just the citizens do (for the reasons you state).

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:41 | 4357095 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

>>I am growing increasingly exhausted with the incessant rationalizations of frightened activists posing as non-aggression proponents; the same kinds of people who refuse to even entertain the probability that physical self defense will be needed against corrupt government. The pungent smog of cowardice that follows them curls the nostrils, and the obvious transparency of their fear is a bit sickening.<<

 

I love Internet tough guy talk.  A populist keyboard commando he is.  

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:05 | 4357154 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

How the hell do you know whether he is merely talking tough or is tough? Let me answer for you -- you don't. 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:14 | 4357184 nickt1y
nickt1y's picture

Got anything to back that claim up with? If you don't ... Then STFU!

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:17 | 4357210 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Small conversations like this are taking place across the globe. Sure they seem like nothing in the grand scheme of things, but each little conversation influences the community as a whole. And now thanks to the power of the internet these conversations are reaching across borders. There is a great battle going on right now between the central planners of the world who want to maintain the current corrupt power structure, and everybody else. Sooner or later it will come to a head.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:30 | 4357238 kito
kito's picture

amen doc

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 21:44 | 4357310 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Holy shit you're still alive!? I thought for sure the matrix sucked you back in.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 20:37 | 4357271 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

I'm betting on sooner. Sooner is better. 

In my estimation, enough has been lost. The criminality and collusion could not be any more omnipresent.

 

 

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 23:04 | 4357760 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

if you don't know how many clicks up to dial in for a 220 gr at 700 yds, then you have no idea.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 02:00 | 4358055 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Well, not 220s, but for 155s with my rifle, it is 33 clicks from zero. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 11:28 | 4358851 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

excellent, i like zh'ers that know how to dial it in.  just in case. mine is a quarter mill per click. drop of 105. at 700 yds. 105/7 is 15x4=60.  but mine gets there with more velocity than a 44 mag at the muzzle.

 

that 155 can do mucho damage, what are you kicking it out of.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:44 | 4357100 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Interesting . Now why would the authorities , the government , turn on the citizens in this way? More to this story than meets the eye at first glance.

Wed, 01/22/2014 - 19:50 | 4357116 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

... because it sets the "bad" example that the people can do a better job on their own - it deligitimizes the government.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!