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Guest Post: Should Ukraine Be Split In Two?
With Russia offering $10 billion in funds to the troubled nation this morning, and Ukrainian capital markets in disarray over the anti-anti-Europe protests and ongoing riots, Stefan Karlsson offers an alternative take on the "people vs dictator" meme - especially in light of the fact that Yanuckovich is supported by a large part of the population (specifically in the eastern and southern parts of the country).
Submitted by Stefan Karlsson of Stefan Karlsson's blog,
Ukraine, particularly the capital Kiev, continues to be tormented with clashes between protesters and the police.
These protests started after Ukraine's government decided to reject an agreement with the EU and instead seek closer ties with Russia.
In most Western media outlets, this is portrayed as a struggle between the people and a dictator allied with Vladimir Putin. However, what they forget is that while, President Yanukovich somewhat authoritarian, he is supported by a large part of the population.
More specifically, Yanukovich is very popular in the eastern and southern parts of the country, but very unpopular in the western and north central parts of Ukraine. This geographic divide is illustrated by this map showing his support in different parts of Ukraine (for a larger version of the image click on it) in the latest presidential election.
Yanukovich is supported by a majority in blue areas, and the darker the blue color is the larger the majority is while his opponent was supported by a majority in yellow and red areas, with the strongest majority being in the dark red areas.
The pro-Yanukovich areas are essentially the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine. Here the Russian language is largely prevalent with a significant part of the population considered to be "ethnic Russian". These regions also have strong trade ties with Russia.
The anti-Yanukovich areas are thus more or less anti-Russian. They speak only the Ukrainan language and have little or no ties with Russia-and wants to keep it that way,
If Yanukovich prevails, the pro-Russian parts of Ukraine will be pleased and the anti-Russian will feel oppressed. If the protesters wins, the anti-Russian parts will be pleased and the pro-Russian parts will feel oppressed.
The only sensible solution for this dilemma is to divide Ukraine. The western and north central parts will then be able to create a Western oriented state which is linguistically entirely Ukrainian while the southern and eastern parts can either merge with Russia or create a linguistically Russian state allied with Russia.
This solution isn't entirely unproblematic as there are areas which are themselves divided between anti- and pro-Russian supporters and as many Ukrainian nationalists insists that the country shouldn't be divided. But the current structure which will leave one half of the country feeling oppressed by the other half will continue to be a disaster.
....
Of course, the real question is... where are the natural resources?
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Splitting up countries they can't control or destroying them is what the Western demonic alliance of assholes loves more than anything. So no.
Let's give the good land and all of the political power to the Jewish minority. That always works well.
What about giving the Anti-Russian area a ton of weapons and then plant chemical weapons in the Pro-Russian area?
Kind of petered out in Syria
Are you serious? The UN is talking about regime change, and pretty much everyone is on board other than Syria.
Well the "velvet divorce" of the former Czechoslovakia worked out well.
Of course that was more of a case of the hillbilly Slovaks trying to shake down the Czecks for more money. The Czecks called their bluff. Something similar happened in Canada when Quebec kept agitating for independence and the other provinces told them good riddance. One look at the third world hell that Quebec would become and they lost all interest in indepenence.
Quebec is very rich in natural resources but lives off of Alberta and Saskatchewan. The sooner they become independent the sooner they will cease to be a drag on the rest of Canada and really get to try out Socialism on their own franc. If any other Province wants to go with them good riddance. Smaller government is always better. The last Independence Referendum was corrupted by the actions of the Federal Government. My suggestion is to let each Provincial Riding vote on Sovereignty individually and then redraw the maps of Canada and Quebec to reflect this outcome otherwise there will be a large Canadian minority governed by Quebec.
Ukraine's natural resource is the Crimean peninsula
I thought it was 19yr trophy wives..
To be fair Quebec is definitely a taker however it's not so easy to let them go and they know it.
If Quebec were to be given full nation status (they are technically a nation in Canada now). What would happen with Labrador and Newfoundland? Both also want out and it would set a precedent. There is also the problem that Quebec is a huge net exporter of hydro power to the eastern provinces.
Not saying it can't be good riddance but the calculus is a bit more complex than many make out.
Pis ouais j'ai habite au Quebec mais pas maintenant.
Should the USA be split in two?
Is a trillion greater than two?
Logical fallacies are often sneakily used by politicians and the media to fool people. (e.g. George Washington considered himself as "ethnic English," his ancestors were from England, and he spoke English; therefore, he was pro-England)
Stefan Karlsson uses a map of political support for two presidential candidates to justify splitting the country.
How about those people who are NOT pro-Russia, but they supported Yahukovich simply because they were disgusted with Tymoshenko's ethics and her questionable gas dealings? How about those Ukrainians who are NOT pro-Russia, but they speak Russian because it was the language of their parents?
According to Stefan Karlsson, if you do not like Tymoshenko then you are pro-Russia. If you speak Russian, then you are pro-Russia. (If you speak Spanish, then you are pro-Spain?)
In addition, Yanukovich is NOT pro-Russia. He is pretending to be a friend of Putin/Russia because he needs Russian bailouts and cheap gas. EU did not offer any bailouts and/or gas subsidies. It was the main reason for not signing the deal with the EU. Yanukovich was asking for 50 billion euros from the EU, but he didn't get it, so he went to Putin.
also, to provide some background, it should be noted that the western half is much poorer than the eastern half
Actually, it is the other way around. Eastern Ukrainians are poorer, mostly poor factory workers, steel workers, and coal miners (think Pittsburgh).
However, there are more oligarchs in the eastern half because they own factories (the east is more industrialized, legacy from the Soviet Union).
No
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukrainian_salary_map.png
Your map is misleading. It does NOT represent overall wealth per capita or unemployment rate by the region, but only salary averages of people that have jobs.
As I said, eastern part is more industrialized, so an average salary for those factory workers that have jobs can be higher, but the region itself is poorer with higher unemployment rates (think average salary of Detroit auto workers and Detroit area poverty).
I could not find a map of wealth distribution for Ukraine, but here is a map of HIV prevalence (according to multiple studies, HIV is more prevalent in impoverished areas).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Registered_HIV_preval...
Three would be better; but two would be a good start. Washington, DC can run itself; but no one else.
Lets call the new one the CSoA...
At this point, from your keyboard to God's ears.
They should dispatch NGOs run by western governments and satanic warlocks like Mr. Soros first to cause shit. Wait what?
If they'd split up Mexifornia, I'd probably consider moving to Jefferson State.
Time to split up the Lone Star State into Texas and Tejano.
If you take a look at Britain's colonial legacy, you will see that drawing national boundaries in this way, that polarizes the population, is the norm rather than exception.
Divide and conquer.
Talk about a worthless post.
It's truly sad how statists can be so blind to the reality of the impossibility of the existence of ANY political solution.
How can people believe that a "violent state" can be cured by even more violence?
I read something the other day that has been ringing in my head since: "Jews throughout history, one way or another, often come to dominate the power and money structures of the countries they reside in. Which makes it all the more remarkable that they never see the pogroms set against them coming."
"You get a rope, and I'll get a bankster, and we'll go down to hang the shyster."
My paternal grandparents were born in Ukraine and got out in 1913 around the time of the Russion Revolution. They were "Fiddler on The Roof" kind of Jews but without all the singing and dancing since they were landless peasants just trying eke out a living. Made it to Canada where my dad was born before immigrating to Los Angeles in the '40s. Struggled all their lives to provide a home for my dad and his brother. Funny, but I don't recall Jews dominating power and money structures in Russia. Or Poland. Or other parts of Eastern Europe. But I'm no historian.
Read Mark Twain's Letter to the Jews if you want to get an insightful observation about the Jews and their persecution throughout history.
I think you need to spend some time reading about how the Russian Revolution was financed...
Should Nato, the UN, and the EU be split up? Yes. As soon as possible. Should the Ukraine be split up, no. It's just fine the way it is; just shoot the foreign paid political activists and bury them in mass graves in the forest; the Ukrainians already know how to do this, they won't need any help.
UKRAINE controls over 70% of the world's BITCOIN mining pools, one man controls over 50%,
UKRAINE controls BITCOIN MINING, why dont' they just become Switzerland?
Bitcoins & Bitches bitchez
Another Holodomor ought to sort em out.
And perpetrated by the same tribe responsible for numero uno. The more things change....
You ought not joked on that*
(eternal dietary regime follows)
whatever the neo-zio-cons want, do the opposite
TPTB love the D&C (Divide & Conquer) game.
The West has been encouraging these riots which are tearing Ukraine apart:
The deaths are the first fatalities since protests began against the Ukrainian government just over two months ago. They came just one day after a warning by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov that the intervention by European governments had aggravated tensions in Ukraine, and that the situation was “spinning out of control.”
Lavrov said, “We have information that much of this is being stimulated from abroad,” adding that “members of several European governments rushed to the Maidan without any invitation and took part in anti-government demonstrations.” Such behaviour, Lavrov said, was “simply indecent.”
Lavrov was referring to the interventions in December by EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and then-German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle who openly expressed their solidarity with demonstrators. EU incursions on behalf of the opposition were supported by Washington. US Senator John McCain addressed a mass rally in Independence Square and dined with leaders of the opposition parties, including Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of the ultra-right and anti-Semitic Svoboda party.
Washington and Berlin have mobilized the most right-wing, reactionary forces in their campaign to overthrow Yanukovych and replace him with a regime who would break the country’s longstanding ties with Russia and implement austerity through the EU.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/01/23/ukra-j23.html
McCain has always excelled at indecent behavior. Must be the lifetime of practice.
After McStain came back from the Hanoi Hilton, he dumped his wife (who had a car accident and was in a wheel chair, and put on some weight) for a blonde bombshell who was an heiress to tens of millions.
The dirty stains that McStain and his PR corps doesn't want you to know. He's so dirty, I wouldn't let him wash my feet.
His first wife's medical bills were paid by Ross Perot:
But Ross Perot, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel – even by the standards of modern politics.
‘McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,’ he said.
‘After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-c...
The good thing is McCain will soon be left drooling in a bed somewhere and kicking the bucket. He's not going to make it much longer in terms of political discipline and reason.
"Sociopath is, sociopath does."
Ukraine, yet another victim of multiculturalism.
Or is this a question of the poor love a dictator who will take from the 'rich' and give to them?
The Mfg plants and their cheap Ukrainian labor are in the West (close to EU border), and I think the Resources are in the East.
If you divide, the East can then offer cheap labor + cheap resources, for you to covet. You then need unrest there also, and continue the Divide & Conquer process.
It is much easier to divide a country into ethnic or geographical regions, than it is to divide the debt and assets of that country. A bit like a divorce without a judge or lawyers....
Ah, only the "strong hand" wins.
Long Janukovich, Short Tymo
Divide Spain in 17 regions please.
Verbot.exe...load geopolitic.dll
And we thought syria would be the end of the matter....
And who caresif Ukrainian folks split..geez see the map?
Wake me up when silver hits $ 40 an oz or if somebody nukes something.. til then the verbot abides...
And Mark Haines would have some cool observation if he was still with us..
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=up
Ukraine was the seventh-largest energy CONSUMER in Europe and Eurasia in 2010. More than half of the country's primary energy supply comes from its uranium and coal resources, although natural gas also plays an important role in its energy mix.
...
its geographic position and proximity to Russia explain Ukraine's importance as a natural gas transit country, through which volumes flow to Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Turkey. In the past, disputes between Russia and Ukraine over natural gas supplies, prices, and debts have resulted in interruptions to Russia's natural gas exports through Ukraine, with the latest one occurring in 2009.
...
Recent discoveries of shale gas deposits in Ukraine provide the country with a possible means to diversify its gas supplies away from Russia. In January 2013, Shell agreed to explore an area which the government estimates holds about 4 Tcf of shale natural gas in reserves. Current plans include development of shale gas resources for domestic consumption and exports to Western Europe by 2020
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine
...
Ukraine remains a major gas consumer, ranked thirteenth in the world and fifth in Europe. Heavy industry is the largest consumer of natural gas in Ukraine (accounting for 40% of domestic consumption).
...
Ukraine remains the main transit route for Russian natural gas sold to Europe, which earns Ukraine about $3 billion a year in transit fees, making it the country’s most lucrative export service.[4] Following Russia's launch of the Nord Stream pipeline, which bypasses Ukraine, gas transit volumes have been steadily decreasing.[4] In 2004 more than 120 bcm of Russian gas was transported through Ukraine; this figure dropped to just 84 bcm in 2012.[4]
Russia–Ukraine gas disputes left many countries with a significant drop in their supplies when Russia cut off all natural gas supplies passing through Ukraine in 2009 and 2006.[15][20]
...
Ukraine has Europe's third-largest shale gas reserves at 1.2 trillion cubic meters (tcm).[9] There are two potentially large shale gas fields.[9] The Yuzivska field located in Donetsk Oblast (province) and Kharkiv Oblast; and the Olesska field in Lviv Oblast and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast.[
Ukraine signed a shale gas 50-year production sharing agreement with Royal Dutch Shell on 25 January 2013 involving the Yuzivska field.[13][4] The $10 billion deal was the largest foreign direct investment ever for Ukraine.
...
Ukraine expects commercial shale gas extraction in 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipelines_to_europe...
Also as an aside to the bigger picture.
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=TU
Turkey plays an increasingly important role in the transit of oil. It is strategically located at the crossroads between oil-rich Former Soviet Union countries and the Middle East, and the European DEMAND centers. In addition, it is home to one of the world's busiest CHOKEPOINTS through which 2.9 million barrels per day flowed in 2010.
Turkey holds a strategic role in natural gas—between the world's second largest natural gas market, continental Europe, and the substantial gas reserves of the Caspian Basin and the Middle East.
Turkey imports about 90 percent of the hard coal it consumes. Volumes of imported coal may rise in the future as coal's importance for electricity generation increases.
Guess who sells them that coal and guess who gets fucked when the Turks no longer have to price it in USD?
It is all about the energy in general.
Turkey is a very interesting aspect to geopolitics. I know I don't know much about the place. My sister-in-law married a Turk, and we've had some fascinating conversations. Beyond the fact that almost all of what I know of as the roots Western Civilization had at least something to do with what's now Turkey at some point, a little time spent musing at a good atlas makes one think of Turkey in a whole new light. My sister-in-law's husband is a pretty patriotic Turk, though he did become a US citizen officially yesterday, so I discount some of what he says as pride. But I think we'll all learn a bit more about Turkey as the years unfold.
The Asian part of Turkey is known as Anatolia, but was previously known as 'the Kingdom of Rum'. If that sounds similar to Rome, its no accident.
Turkic Mongols (as well as Slavs) played a massive part in medieval European history.
The fall of Constantinople in 1453 was the major catalyst in Portugal launching its voyages of discovery.
Putin should have been a real prick and offered them 10B and 1 cent... I know I would have if I was in his position.
Divide it into millions. Every man should be his own sovereign state. Screw big government.
Still, that would be a start.
What if the people around you do not want you trespassing on their land? Do you just stay trapped on your property until you starve?
You either have your son marry their daughter, or you fight them in a winner-takes-all death match.
Fucking and fighting, this is our history and our future.
Present, too, even though we've temporarily sublimated some of the fucking/fighting through culturally agreed-upon abstractions.
Sneak into the camps and kidnap all their women, marry them, then they will have no choice but to join! Ask the Sabines
Its a chapter that has repeated itself through history. In the days of the Mongols, it was really a "shoot first, ask questions later" sort of environment. Literally, they kidnapped your daughter (be you a king, a khan, etc) and then asked for her hand in marriage. And of course, per the official chronicles, the bride-to-be was always VERY pleased to do her part.
"It's not you. It's me." -George Costanza
"It's not about Russia. It's about Ukraine." - US, EU
Putin: Fat Chanski.
Next question pozhaluysta.
$10 billion, hell, nowadays that's not even enough to bother bending over to pick up!
I can't decide about Ukraine, but I'd definitely like to split some of those Venezuelan's.
Actually, I do favor splitting. But not for Ukraine, but for the United States so that the cultural divide between the people who want socialism and debt slavery and the people who want freedom and free enterprise can be realized.
In fact, it’s a lot more germane to talk about a solution for America’s problem than to jump into Ukraine and help the European Union chalk up another coup.
Here’s Antiwar’s Justin Raimondo’s take on Ukraine:
“Why should Yanukovich sign the EU treaty – aside, that is, from the bromides about "joining Europe"? If he had signed, then why did the Ukrainians, alongside their Russian compatriots, bother fighting the Germans during World War II, finally succeeding in driving them out of the country after unthinkable losses? Why did they throw off the Russian yoke after the USSR disappeared – only to surrender their hard won sovereignty to yet another amalgam of socialist states?
“The Eurocrats have their Ukrainian fifth column out in the streets of Kiev, attacking government buildings, engaging in hand-to-hand fighting with the police, and deploying the aggressive tactics we have come to know so well from the "color revolutions" of the past. Yet this Orange movement is dried up and rotten to the core, a juice-less phenomenon which holds up as a political ideal the faceless bureaucracy of Brussels, which is rightly hated from Greece to Spain to what used to be the free country of England. Good luck with that!
“The pro-EU hooligans in the streets of Kiev are pawns in a larger game: the new cold war with Russia. This battle is being waged with the Europeans in the front lines and the Americans finagling and maneuvering behind the scenes, eager for vengeance against the one man who has successfully defied and outsmarted them at every turn: Vladimir Putin. …
Read more:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/12/01/ukraine-defends-its-sovereignty/
Its been my view for some time that the US ends up Balkanized at some point. Decentralization and smaller gov't FTW!
That's why they made DHS, and the FUSION-CENTERS, they're rapid response centers all over the USA, and anytime a secession movement is credible, 500 agents can descend to an area in 24 hours,
Last year that guy in CALIF kidnapped the girl and took her to IDAHO, rural and they activated this, and they had 500 agents in 24 hours, so it was GO.
500 agents is enough to contain trouble just about anywhere and there are dozens of FUSION-CENTERS all over ameriKKKa.
**
Sure it would be great to balkanize the USA, but WASH-DC has other plans.
That's why MOST likely if you want to BALKANIZE the USA, you have to take WASH-DC out, and that would be best done with bio-warfare.
Once WASH-DC command&control is GONE, then all the FED's payroll is kaput, and the USA is once again a free country.
Did anyone immediately think of Falco and his awesome dancing skillz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Xulsjo5I
Russia has near monopoly for supplying natural gas to Europe--West of Russia.
Saudis, Qatar and Israelis want to break that monopoly, but Syria is in the way. Russia blocks Israel's use of their attack dog, the US military, in Syria. Saudis threaten Russia.
Bombs and such now going boom in Russia--really boom, not Boston boom.
Now, supposedly out of the blue, there is political strife in the country that Russia's pipelines just happen to transit, the Ukraine.
LOL
Right, Western NGOs and agents trying to do a repeat of what they did in Serbia. They can't bomb Ukraine like Libya so we'll see if they are willing to push it much farther.
+100 for really boom, not Boston boom. Cracked my shit up.
"not Boston boom"
You just said it. Real bombs without the fake blood and the actors.
"Bombs and such now going boom in Russia--really boom, not Boston boom."...
Just give it time. Prepare for the 2nd Act if we have another event during the games in Sochi...
Guarantee you will not want to be anywhere near Langley Virginia or for that matter Washington D.C. as the "shit" will escalate and go Kinetic on the other end this time and rightfully so.
Washington and Saudi Arabia will wish they had another fake Boston to deal with!
With over 70% of BITCOIN being mined by UKRAINE, and controlled there, it had to be no fucking accident.
My personal pet theory is that the NSA/CIA setup UKRAINE indepence as PLAN-B if the SAUDI/ISRAEL->SYRIAN fuck failed and it did.
The BITCOIN monopoly gives the UKRAINIAN kids just enough 'guts' to fight russia and go West.
Putin should really clap down on BITCOIN and put an end to the NSA/CIA influence.
***
Funny how GAZPROM has a monopoly of GAS going into EUROPE and its driving AIPAC/JDL/ADL nuts.
Putin beat the USA/ISRAEL(CIA/MOSSAD) at their own game, and they just don't like it.
Where is EUROPE on all this? My guess is that prices from GAZPROM are still their best deal, shit if the fuel came through ISRAEL, you know it would be DEAR.
I understand the desire to not go back to the bad old days of the Soviet Union but rushing into the arms of the Euro and the European experiment?
Methinks some in the Western Ukraine are a tad idealistic and do not know the phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire".
"Who say Ukraine weak?"
BAM!!!
First, split the USA into Obamaland and Jesusland: http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-US-President... Jesusland has some cultural and economic cohesion, but Obamaland falls apart into 500 warring statelets when it can't print enough money to appease its myriad ethnic and grievance groups.
All rump states have serious problems maintaining legitimacy, as no one wants to stay in a country that stinks of failure and weakness. If Russia hadn't fought and won a brutal civil war in Chechnya, it would have eventually shrunk to a few hundred kilometers around Moscow and St. Petersburg.
Calling Prime Minister Harper and the French members of Parliament?!!!... If anyone should know how to live in harmony for the past 200 years while hating each others guts it's the English speaking and French speaking parts of the government.
Actually it's not funny and rather dangerous considering U.S. involvement and the timing of the terrorists acts in Volgograd following Bandar "Bush" pep talk with Putin at the end of last year.
The one thing I'm beginning to suspect is Putin's biggest weakness is that he is not a very charismatic leader when it comes to "pressing the flesh" with the old Soviet State counterpart(s) and writing prolific speeches about there mutual shared history and cultural past.
I haven't seen him deliver that big speech following Yanukovych's victory about "righting the wrongs" of political history by what the Western banks did to both of them (Russia and Ukraine) before, during and after the Bolshevik revolution and that both Nation(s) have a vested interest to come together finally after more than a century of outside meddling from England and France.
I think the hard assets, what the EU/Germans are after are in the East, the EU isn't interested in the Ukraine people except to lower their own people's wages and consumer debt growth, the Ukraine industrial & agricultural assets, and encumbering them with EU state debt, that is the real goal, to renationalize everything in Ukraine under an EU debt umbrella all under Brussels management, that is the goal of the Fascist EU mob demanding to enter the "debtors prison for life" known as the EU.
So what happens when Yanukovich buses in a whole bunch of miners from the east into Kiev, to neutralise the mass protest (by busting heads).
I recall a similar tactic a few years ago, but am ashamed to admit I can't remember where it was (in Eastern bloc countries) -could even have been Russia
That was in Romania friend.
Is this a 'Russia Today' Vladimir Putin board or what? To all the brilliant conspiracy theorists here (yes, I do believe Jon Corzine should be energetically prosecuted criminally for using his cleint accounts, etc.),
do some historical research (it is probably all at Wikipedia):
But 'haters' gotta hate right? I sure hope someone doesn't view any of you the way you are tarring the protesters in Ukraine ... not everyone is a tool of the Joos or the CIA or the bankers or name your designated target of despise.....
No wonder coptic christains are getting slaughtered in the middle east considering all the disdain here..... oh I forgot, they too are tools of the Joos ......l
The "Russian" revolution was funded by New York jew Jacob Schiff and executed entirely by foreigners led by Lev Davidovich Bronshtein a.k.a Leon Trotsky.
Nice try, hasbara.
Bull's eye
Russia historically forces populations of Russians into bordering areas, then later claims the areas need to be ceded to Russia due to the presence of all the Russians there. It's an intentional strategy. The reason all of Eastern Ukraine is pro-Russia is because most of them are Russians. Splitting half of Ukraine off is exactly what Russians want, they've repeated the strategy in many areas around their original country.
Thank God places like Britain and Spain never tried to pull shit like that!
Or America. "Hi there, settler! Newly freed from your indentured servitude, I see, and ready to go out and take the world by the horns, huh? Well, friend, I hate to say it, but it seems the British found a supply of these "negros" who are very affordable by today's prices and willing to come work for us free of charge. Well, it seems that with the current supply of these "negros," we don't really have any work for you right now. Would you be a lamb and move out to the frontier and keep the Indians away from us for a few years? It's only until we can push some cities out your way and force you off your land for more affordable spaces further West. Tha-anks! Oh, and don't forget-even though you're poor as dirt and we won't let you have any good land or income, you're still white and better than everyone else around here. Cheers!
Most of the people writting their comments under this article don't know anything about current situation in Ukraine.
Ukraine is quite new country, most of the time in history not having their own identity. It was redefined after independency proclamation in 1991.
The true is - there was never such thing like "ukrainian" identity before. Areas of current Ukraine were always ruled by Moskvia Empire, Golden Orde, Polish Commonwealth. In fact from genetic point of view western ukrainians have more common with Polish and Bielarussians than with Russians.
They fought for separate country after Khmielnitzki's uprising, which opened the way for Russia tu overtake all their territory. Long being part of Russian Tsars' Empire. Then they collatorate with Soviets in 1920, then after short episode of having their own semi-country, were completelly taken over by Russia again (with small parts in Polish borders).
Russians killed millions of Ukrainians in 1933 because of hunger, while exporting plenty of tons of food to western Europe.
During WW2 - they collaborated with Germans (western part) while eastern Ukrainians were fighting with them. Western ukrainians killed more than 100.000 polish innocent polish children, women and men (see Volhynian slaugter).
Stalin or Khrushtchow dediced to include Crimea into Ukrainian SRR, and to move Tatar's from Crimea to Siberia (to change ethnicity mix in Russia)
After 1991 they have to decide if to stay as a part of Russia or to be independent. With no idea what new country should look like. It was the matter of time to happen that thing as now we can see in TV. Part of Ukraine is russian speaking, part ukrainian, and even small part next to polish bordrer is polish speaking. If they split, then these countries won't survive as an independent state (no industry in western part), no political independency possible in eastern one - will be in fact part of Russia.
Who is doing such mess currently at Ukraine? Russian and Germans. They decided again to do something with Ukraine creating quite big problems (North stream pipeline was built because of Ukraine - now former german president is woking in the russian-german joint-venture company buildind this pipeline). Russia will be biggest winner on this split. German will take cheap labour of western part.
Who will be biggest loosers? Ukrainians themselves... This is not win-win game. This is for minimalization of losts...
I thought the Ukraine was sort of like Europe's Mexico? I heard from my spouse, who is Polish, that EU businesses had relocated to the Ukraine to save on high EU wages and prices. For instance, they told me about their friend who was working for a sugar company that had moved to the Ukraine to turn sugar beets into sugar, since operating in the EU was too expensive. Won't integrating the Ukraine into the EU both threaten Russia and ruin that flow of business? Once the Ukraine is integrated into the EU, and everyone's unemployed and in debt, I guess all the business will have to flow East to Georgia.
should the USSA be split in two
or three
http://advocat-cons.info/index.php?newsid=20302
If the Euro-Hooligans get early elections and the Ukranians do not vote for Europe - surely the riots will continue?
Perhaps neither the EU nor Russia want a strong independent and intact Ukraine?