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Snowden Rules Out Return To US Even As Privacy Watchdog Concludes NSA Spying Was/Is Illegal

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As if the fact that the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board found the NSA's bulk telephone collection "has shown minimal value in safeguarding the nation from terrorism," the 238-page report concluded it was illegal in several ways and violates privacy. Coincidentally, on the day of the release of the 9/11 Commission-prompted report, Edward Snowden (in an online chat) stated, "It's not good for our country, it's not good for the world, and I wasn't going to stand by and watch it happen, no matter how much it cost me." Indeed, one wonders if this would have ever come to light; but now following these findings that the program is not authorized by the Patriot Act the panel may give ammunition to critics in Congress and fuel legal challenges presenting a problem for President Obama who said last week (instead of waiting for the report) that he would allow the program to continue.

 

The report's findings are damning (via Yahoo)...

A report released by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board concluded the NSA's huge phone metadata program is illegal in several ways, and provides little or no value to the fight against terrorism.

 

The 238-page report said the program "has shown minimal value in safeguarding the nation from terrorism."

 

And the panel said the program is not authorized by the Patriot Act, the law passed following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

 

It said it violates constitutional guarantees of free speech and protection against unreasonable searches, and also fails to comply with a federal privacy law.

 

Moreover, it said the program threatens to have "debilitating consequences for journalism" because "sources in a position to offer crucial information about newsworthy topics may remain silent out of fear that their telephone records could be used to trace their contacts."

 

The report also said the NSA stretches the interpretation of what may be "relevant" to a terrorism investigation.

 

The board, which was set up to create safeguards for privacy and civil liberties for stepped-up anti-terrorism efforts, rejected the notion the NSA program could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

 

But the politicians and their lackeys are defending it (via Bloomberg)...

Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat and chairman of the intelligence committee, has defended the collection of bulk phone records as necessary to stop terrorism and vowed to fight efforts to end it.

 

Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican and chairman of the House intelligence committee, who has been supportive of the surveillance tools, seized on lack of unanimity on the board in an e-mailed statement today.

 

In 38 times over the past seven years, 17 federal judges have examined this issue and found the telephone metadata program to be legal, concluding this program complies with both the statutory text and with the U.S. Constitution,” Rogers said. “I don’t believe the Board should go outside its expertise to opine on the effectiveness of counterterrorism programs.”

 

Stewart Baker, a former NSA general counsel, downplayed the legal impact of the report.

“I think you can fairly describe it as an amicus brief written by three people,” said Baker, now with Steptoe & Johnson LLP in Washington. “This is free advice to the court from a board that doesn’t have any particular expertise on the legal issues.”

 

Edward Snowden praised the report's findings in an online chat today via Free Snowden webste:

"it's time to end "bulk collection" which is a euphemism for mass surveillance. There is no simple justification for continuing an unconstitutional policy with a 0% success rate. In light of another independent confirmation of this fact, i think Americans should look to the White House and Congress to close the book entirely on the 215BR provision."

 

Via Yahoo:

"The hundred-year old law under which I've been charged... forbids a public interest defense," he said in a question-and-answer session.

 

"This is especially frustrating, because it means there's no chance to have a fair trial, and no way I can come home and make my case to a jury."

 

Snowden, who has been granted temporary asylum in Russia, said the report supports his contention that the NSA programs violate US laws and the constitution.

 

He added that the NSA is "setting a precedent that immunizes the government of every two-bit dictator to perform the same kind of indiscriminate, dragnet surveillance of entire populations that the NSA is doing."

 

"It's not good for our country, it's not good for the world, and I wasn't going to stand by and watch it happen, no matter how much it cost me."

 

...

 

"The reactions of those I told about the scale of the constitutional violations ranged from deeply concerned to appalled, but no one was willing to risk their jobs, families, and possibly even freedom."

 

But the finds of the report could still be a problem for the President (via Bloomberg)...

In December, U.S. District Judge Richard Leon, in Washington, ruled that the program probably violates privacy rights...

 

The report “lends enormous weight” to Leon’s ruling

 

In line with the conclusion of the panel’s majority, Leon, who allowed a lawsuit against the NSA to proceed, said he wasn’t convinced at this point that “the NSA’s database has ever truly served the purpose of rapidly identifying terrorists in time-sensitive investigations.”

 

“It’s clear that momentum is building and more and more people are coming to appreciate how truly threatening and intrusive some of these bulk collection programs can be,” Black said in an interview.

 

The bombshell of the report’s central conclusion may explain why Obama decided to announce his proposals on Jan. 17, before the panel’s report was made public. Obama defended U.S. electronic spying as a bulwark against terrorism.

 

I do not think we should just accept bulk collection as a given,” Jim Dempsey, speaking for the panel’s majority, said today at a meeting where the report was adopted. “We have to go back to the fundamental question: should we be collecting bulk data and under what standards?”

 

The board’s conclusions present a challenge for President Barack Obama, who is being pressed by phone and Internet companies, foreign governments, civil libertarians and some members of Congress to restructure the NSA’s surveillance activities following disclosure of the programs by former government contractor Edward Snowden.

 

The privacy panel has no authority to change the programs and Obama last week presented his own plan without waiting for the board’s report. The president said he would continue to allow government use of bulk phone records yet would prevent NSA from storing the data and require the agency get court approval to use it.

 

 

We leave it to Mr. Snowden to sum up the future:

Do you think it is possible for our democracy to recover from the damage NSA spying has done to our liberties? #AskSnowden

 

Yes. What makes our country strong is our system of values, not a snapshot of the structure of our agencies or the framework of our laws. We can correct the laws, restrain the overreach of agencies, and hold the senior officials responsible for abusive programs to account.

 

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Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:08 | 4361393 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"......the 238-page report concluded it was illegal in several ways and violates privacy......"

"Make me stop spying on you. Go ahead........make me." - NSA to the world at large and the American people in particular.

<And what exactly will you and I do if that is precisely what the NSA and the President says?>

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:10 | 4361406 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Fuck you Eric Holder.   

 

Spying on our private communications is the final nail in the coffin of liberty.

 

CC NSA

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:13 | 4361428 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Snowden knows America is no longer home of the free!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:27 | 4361476 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Jimmy Carter long ago said

"The USA is no longer a democracy"

The frog was boiled dead long ago, but  ZH'ers just keep commenting on like change is going come, ...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:58 | 4361538 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The US is not and never was a democracy.  That's so painfully basic I shouldn't have to tell you, Carter never was too bright.

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:12 | 4361596 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

It's time to end "bulk collection" which is a euphemism for mass surveillance. There is no simple justification for continuing an unconstitutional policy with a 0% success rate

 

Zing!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:47 | 4361675 Four chan
Four chan's picture

president snowden has a nice ring to it.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:09 | 4361713 Gen. Keith Alexander
Gen. Keith Alexander's picture

Mr. Snowden obviously knows that the penalty for treason against the State is death.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 05:40 | 4361948 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I'd wager the ridiculous hotness of Russian chicks might be a more substantial factor in his decision-making.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:49 | 4362158 insect0man
insect0man's picture

Metrosexual Useful Idiots like Snowden have no clue what to do with hot chicks, Russian or otherwise.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 09:06 | 4362194 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Ask him and then tell us what he said?

https://twitter.com/AskSnowden

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 09:28 | 4362238 insect0man
insect0man's picture

No need to ask him, given how Comrade Snowden left his "hot chick" American girlfriend/prop swinging without a clue.

Quack, waddle, metrosexual Useful Idiot pussy Snowdenduck.

F Him, You, and the Afro you rode in on.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 11:24 | 4362643 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

That RT lady looks pretty good to me.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 16:00 | 4363899 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I am still waiting on Eddy and his buddy Glenn to actually release some information regarding the really bad stuff the NSA is doing.

I mean we kind of already knew about 90% of the programs that Eddy disclosed. I want to know about the really, really, juicy stuff that will make the people of this planet get off the couch and restore the fucking Republic already.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:53 | 4362171 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Yes, hot Slavic women vs Prison and fugly dudes...gosh, what a difficult choice, eh?  Well, if you're not into fugly dudes that is...

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 14:43 | 4363554 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Slavic chicks are hot, but I've never met one that didn't have ice water for blood. 

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 11:53 | 4362733 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

 

Just build that quantum computer. Ask for help at IBM http://www.cnbc.com/id/45285237 . I bet you've got a lot of "dirt" on everybody, especially Mr Albert Einstein‎ (RIP).


F all the stupid people, who's historical memory does not extend beyond last five years! Maybe some day they will all end up in concentration camps like they did in Europe last century! History does not repeat but it rhymes. Memory is short, even shorter thanks to modern chemistry applied on mass scale! Ms E 2nd and Co. is right. Hoard all the gold while creating pavlovian economy for the rest of the 99%, which at some point in time will become self feeding, based on fuzzy math aka mark-to-myth accounting monster like in 2005-2012. Pizza will become a vegetable and the slogan of the day will be "I BUILT THAT! And always... always look around for useful idiots, who will dismantle State institutions. Next time there will be no Mr Snowden, because he won't give a .... about Mr I nsect0man and others. Instead he'll become Darth Vader on STEROIDS backed by Legion of pure EVIL! If you think two terms of this guy were bad (THE guy) think again! The future face of GOP! - Whatever people say about Bush family I really like seniors.


PS Bernanke is right. Gold isn't money. It is really hard to define what it is nowadays. Poor guy didn't even know why his monetary policy was failing in 2010-11. Well now he knows, it was the LIE-bor stupid but that was just on factor! Just remember to LIE a lot everybody and everything's going to be fine! Just fine!

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 12:01 | 4362771 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Ohh. I forgot to mention TARP. When you want to F somebody really hard always apply TARP. Don't worry Insect0man. Your children will pay for everything ! Money for nothing and chicks for free!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:34 | 4361649 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Carter vouched for all of Chavez stolen elections.  Before Chavez - Venezuela had a smaller middle class.  Today they do not.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:52 | 4361683 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Carter vouched for all of Chavez stolen elections.  Before Chavez - Venezuela had a smaller middle class.  Today they do not.


Yeah too true, before Chavez Venezuela was a bastion of democracy, the rivers flowed of chocolate and there were trees made of gumdrops. It was a wonderful... peaceful time. AND THEN GAWDDAMN CHAVEZ!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_banking_crisis_of_1994

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 14:45 | 4363565 Keyser
Keyser's picture

It's ironic that Colombia used to be dangerous as hell and Venezuela was a safe haven. Now the roles have reversed in the course of 2 decades. 

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:00 | 4361698 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

I was hoping somebody would catch me, but you didn't so I'll correct the Carter quote.

"The USA no longer has a FUNCTIONAL democracy" - Carter

I would agree that the USA was NEVER a democracy, its HAMILTONIAN FEDERALISM, a clever way to say "RULED BY THE RICH".

We don't really know what Carter meant when he said USA Democracy was no longer functioning, perhaps they're no longer giving out free peanuts at the WASH-DC canteen?

Perhaps the Secret Service, no longer provide whores to ex-presidents, we really don't know what Carter meant by "FUNCTIONAL".

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:15 | 4361728 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You're making it very hard for me to take you seriously.  You obviously have no idea that the US is not a democracy and never was.  That's too funny, I 1st thought your were joking.  Please take 5 minutes to learn about US system of Gov before continuing with the insightful comments..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEEL57AcZs

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:35 | 4361749 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Lol John Birch society, now there's some dumb motherfuckers. The good news is you don't need to take my word for it, they've conveniently produced a hilariously goofy 13m48s video demonstrating their stupidity beyond a shadow of a doubt!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 14:53 | 4363602 Keyser
Keyser's picture

There are always those that attack the messenger and ignore the message. So what was it about the video that you find objectionable? 

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:36 | 4361506 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The Headline should be:

"Obama Admnistration" rejects review board finding that NSA data sweep is illegal.

That's the bigger News.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:48 | 4361677 Andre
Andre's picture

"Promises to heretics are not binding."

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:16 | 4361435 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." - Eric "The Red" Holder

Seriously folks, what happens when a governmental agency, constitutional branch of government or the President himself decides they/he will no longer follow the Constitution?

I'm talking about in-your-face overt actions that no one can deny is out of bounds and beyond excuse. Do we call the Justice Department and request Holder put the collar on the Prez?

<Thank you for calling the office of Eric Holder at the Justice Department. Your wait time is presently 2 years, 11 months and counting.>

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:26 | 4361471 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

"People have at all time the right to Abolish their government" - USA CONSTITUTION

Get with it people, abolish your government, because it hasn't been yours for 50+ years

*

CD you have the power, its written in the law of the land, that if the government becomes useless, the people can abolish that government.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:45 | 4361529 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The law of the land is just words on paper if there is no will of the people to enforce it when those actually entrusted to enforce it fail to do so. Never underestimate the capacity of the average Joe to pass the buck to someone else.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:56 | 4361691 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

When NAZI's are asked "WHY DID NOBODY STOP HITLER?"

Because everybody was on the PAYROLL

Today in the USA, 70% of the PEOPLE are on the NAZI USA payroll, anybody that speaks up, is one of the 30% un-employed.

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:49 | 4361848 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Read "Obedience to Authority" by Dr. Stanley Milgram

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 19:31 | 4364824 tweedle dee
tweedle dee's picture

With the storm troopers now available courtesy of Homeland Security this may be an impossible dream

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:07 | 4361712 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

HOLDER is only guilty cuz SNOWDEN was on his watch, but this shit was going down before HOLDER was born.

*

the narrative on ZH about the NSA is fucking priceless

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:12 | 4361425 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The douchiest (is that even a word?) thing .gov critters & Obama ever said was "Come back and have a "fair trial".

Fucking really!?!?...lol.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:18 | 4361442 Midas
Midas's picture

I would like to see a fair trial........for Eric Holder.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:27 | 4361474 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Wouldn't that be sumpin ;-)

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:20 | 4361806 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Snowden should pack up one of his turds in a bag and send it to the whitehouse with a note to the prez stating,

I'm here for my fair trial.

Love,

Eddie's Turd

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:16 | 4361727 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The douchiest (is that even a word?)"

Yes.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:13 | 4361426 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Great question, CD.  We may just be on that thin razor edge of revolution in this country if the NSA doesn't cease this.  I can tell you, the people I talk with are getting fed up with this, and a lot else.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:19 | 4361447 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Cross this line and we revolt.

<Line crossed.>

Cross this new line and we revolt.

<New line crossed.>

I really mean it this time. Cross this newest line and we revolt.

<Newest line crossed.>

Can we start again please? Cross this line and.................

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:27 | 4361472 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

I think it comes down to threshold. Not "line".

"Boston Strong" was a good indicator of the "threshold" for most, unfortunately.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:35 | 4361502 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Remember to cross their lines and stab their eyes out  - mom to baby tyrant

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:22 | 4361623 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I think the 60's counter culture revolution may have been the last revolution in the US.  Most are now too high on prescription meds to even see any lines.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:04 | 4361703 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

I was talking to an old man about that time. He said some people were VERY "into" the politics of it all, but most showed up to the rallies because it was a party.

Mark my words, in 50 years history will claim that a Counter Culture was happening right now. Instead of rallies, though, we had Facebook, ZH, YouTube, etc. as are new meeting places. Some people are VERY "into" the politics of it all, but most are just here for the party.

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 04:58 | 4361922 new game
new game's picture

bingo, also to stupid. i mean that sincerely. people really think they are smart because they, watched the news and can remember what was said to them, 2, internet brains-research, recite.

what we have is a breakdown, of rational processing of thoughts to coherant dot connected discourse.

the average brain drops off after sentence three and can't correlate thoughts to a thesis and to a conclusion.

and/or if the dialog goes to a rational discussion, the knowledge base is so spoon fed and lacks any artistic value. out of boxers are dead/ dying humans. must be the the food, electronic devices, mainly tb, and human nature of laziness(which is actually a survival mechanism-conserve energy)...

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:59 | 4361695 Manthong
Manthong's picture

um... can we say that again?

maybe we are not resolute???

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 03:23 | 4361866 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

 

"Make me stop spying on you. Go ahead........make me." - NSA to the world at large and the American people in particular.

As was stated in another article, it seems as though another civil war is going to be forced upon us whether we want it or not.  There is too much tension, too much division, too much corruption and too many paranoid freaks unwilling to give up some of their "authority," and all of this in the face of physical resource constraints and a system not set up to deal with those constraints.  I have an idea of what kinds of things would break down in the event of a real, bona fide uprising, and it's not pretty what we'll be facing.  I don't want a war, but I see one coming.  People will be in denial right up until it starts, and a many still even after it has started. 

 

Since the NSA obviously scans this shit, let me give you NSA guys some questions to ponder:  What are you going to do if just 1% or 2% are willing to pick up arms?  You know that just 1% of the US population is a huge fucking army, right?  You know that you might as well have big targets painted on you if that were to happen, right?  You know that control is an illusion, right?  What are you going to do if the people do say, "OK, we're going to go ahead and fucking make you stop?"  Are you going to have DOD bomb our own cities and cut off your own supply lines?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:07 | 4361397 suteibu
suteibu's picture

"hold the senior officials responsible for abusive programs to account."

Riiiiight.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:13 | 4361400 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Most would agree with the "dumbing down" effect...

very few are applying this effect to those who finally influence opinion and achieve places of control.

Shame on us all.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:50 | 4361548 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Speaking if dumb, someone needs to clue Mr. Rogers in that 38 minus 17 = 21,  The last time I checked, 21 is greater than 17,  meaning more judges have found the programs to be illegal than not.

 

Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican and chairman of the House intelligence committee, said 

In 38 times over the past seven years, 17 federal judges have examined this issue and found the telephone metadata program to be legal.

 

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:07 | 4361783 Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican and chairman of the House intelligence committee, said 

“In 38 times over the past seven years, 17 federal judges have examined this issue and found the telephone metadata program to be legal."

I'm laughing! I'm crying! I'm dying!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 05:02 | 4361926 new game
new game's picture

those are the one that holder should remove from the bench and bring treason charges against.

bring snowden home to a ticker tape parade and elect him for the pulitzer prize, nobel peace, and director of oversight of the constitution which upsurps the supremecourt...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:09 | 4361401 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

Considering all the 1% Elite are slowly departing the USSA....Smart man is our Mr. Edwards to stay away.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:10 | 4361414 DOT
DOT's picture

The concept of legality no longer has any meaning in the US.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:23 | 4361460 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

The LAW was always

SELECTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT

If you didn't know that, then your weren't paying attention.

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 06:59 | 4362002 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Oh, we are practicing SELECTIVE insanity now, sweet!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 12:04 | 4362780 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Yes you are right. was it legal for Snowden to steal from his employer ?

For all the good that has come from the Snowden revalations, lets not forget that he stole !

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:15 | 4361420 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

If this NSA crap doesn't show that the whole red team vs blue team game is just one big illusion, or delusion, I don't know what does.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:41 | 4361522 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

And the banking crap, and the 911 crap, and the budget crap, and the Monsanto crap and ....

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:46 | 4361537 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

all true

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:06 | 4361789 Ranger_Will
Ranger_Will's picture

I was actually very encouraged at the public outrage and outcry over this. Even if it amounts to no real action, at least it shows that when the truth is dragged out into the light the people can spot the vampire that is federal tyranny. 

It has been so refreshing to stand up and say "Fuck the NSA!" in a bar of people and not have the response be "Why do you hate professional basketball?" but instead a cheer and raised glasses.  If you can get a bar of pissed people in motion over political over-reach, a true revolt can't be far around the corner.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:17 | 4361439 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This bulk collection stuff is well and good and I admire Snowden but he is going to have to go all in with something jaw dropping at some point to snap the zombie retards awake. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:22 | 4361454 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

SNOWDEN blew the real, on the PTB, but 911, or PATRIOT-ACT don't have shit to do with it, any student of this shit, knows that the NSA was collecting all back to the 1960's and earlier.

Talking about the 'patriot act' and legality is just more fucking NARRATIVE.

The real fucking issue is that somebody here should come out and say that the CIA/NSA has been doing this shit for 50+ years, and that its instituational,

Also add to the fact that in HIGH-TECH the money is made in SPYING,

Just like in LAW-ENFORCEMENT the  money is made in PRISONS

*
Such a disconnect with reality and narrative, how in the fuck can anyone ever assume fucking change?

This stuff is ONLY new to SNOWDEN, cuz he's a kid, ... but make no mistake all this shit has existed forever, ...

Larry Ellison of ORACLE was selling software to the NSA to create database's on your privacy 30+ years ago.

*

The real issue is that the NSA/CIA are all operating OFF THE RESERVATION, they do what they wish off-budget with no accountability.

Law doesn't exist, and the USA congress and all voting is for show.

HILLARY-2016 is just a bitch-lesbian so they can disarm the red-necks and steal their land.

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:02 | 4361571 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

stastohiumiyomo, have you noticed? You get up-voted when your post drunk and down-voted when you post hungover? 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:55 | 4361689 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Satoshi doesn't start drinking for another 6 hours, .. and then post drinking satoshi rarely play's internet.

Prefer a good movie in the evening, blade-runner, 12-monkeys, brazil, LOTR; I think last night it was TED, you know the foul mouthed teddy bear.

Satoshi doesn't give a fuck about green/red on ZH, Satoshi only cares about "IDEAS"

Oh, yea and my favorite movie is V or Vendetta, and 'the road', and the 'the book of eli', and 'max max'....

Green means circle jerk, and red means your telling the truth,... so fucking what?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 05:17 | 4361941 stock trout
stock trout's picture

I downed arrow you for telling the truth. 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 05:10 | 4361931 new game
new game's picture

it is the club, the fucking elite money fucks, power fucks rolled into an eleite bunch that are evil mother fucks...line em up and take a long serious look.  wtf do you see? nice people?

the enemy is and always was right in front of you (quite cowering down).

davos, like roundup herbicide...

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:24 | 4361464 JR
JR's picture

Smart move by Snowden - he knows DC like the back of his hand. Columnist Stephen Lendman, who labels America a super-bully nation, describes Snowden’s plight – even though “Snowden committed no crime. He acted under the provisions of the 1989 Whistleblower Protection Act.” Wrote Lendman two days ago:

___________________

Some in Washington want more than charges pressed. Snowden is public enemy number one.

An unnamed NSA analyst said:

“In a world where I would not be restricted from killing an American, I personally would go and kill him myself. A lot of people share this sentiment.”

An unnamed defense contractor official said Snowden’s “name is cursed every day over here. Most everyone I talk to says he needs to be tried and hung. Forget the trial. Just hang him.”

An unnamed Army intelligence officer said:

“I think if we had the chance, we would end it very quickly. Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow, coming back from buying his groceries.”

“Going back to his flat and he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it’s a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower.”

An unnamed Pentagon official/former special forces officer said:

I would love to put a bullet in his head. I do not take pleasure in taking another human life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single-handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”

Others would nominate Pentagon commanders for that “distinction.” It’s a killing machine. It’s responsible for millions of lost lives. It routinely commits other high crimes.

So do many others infesting Washington. No nation causes more harm to more people globally than America. None are more out-of-control.

None are more sanctimonious. None more claim a divine right. None more abusively violate rule of law principles.

None more outrageously call naked aggression humanitarian intervention. None more gravely threaten humanity.

None have more apologists. None have more serial liars. None more disgracefully champion wrong over right.

America is in a class by itself. It’s on a fast track toward full-blown tyranny. Some argue it already arrived.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/beating-up-on-russia/5365643

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:30 | 4361485 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Even these meatheads have to know if Snowden winds up dead his info would be dumped like an avalanche into the press, and Snowden's name would only grow.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:33 | 4361492 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

CD, what say you about the attitudes of these unnamed intelligence agency workers and officials? This is what we are up against here. This is how tyranny begins and what CAN we do? Serious question - I don't really know. Never thought US military would ever fire on protesting US citizens......but not so sure anymore.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:54 | 4361551 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"CD, what say you about the attitudes of these unnamed intelligence agency workers and officials?"

Warning! Ideological drugs can will be addictive if taken as prescribed. Please consult report to your propaganda office before discontinuing your drug regieme.

"Never thought US military would ever fire on protesting US citizens......but not so sure anymore."

I have no doubt what-so-ever that if the circumstances and orders to fire are framed in the 'proper' light that the vast majority in the military will fire on anyone they are directed to do so. Beyond a doubt Boston proved that to me.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:44 | 4361669 nowhereman
nowhereman's picture

Kent State

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:20 | 4361722 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

What's that? Sorry I was just watching some old footage of a building falling            I find it helps to have a desperate economy and an under educated youth with no other employers but the ones who can really fold a shirt

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 10:10 | 4362385 ratpack1968
ratpack1968's picture

I was told by someone who works (at a much despised) .gov agency that he has absolutely no doubt that citizens would be fired upon. He said that certain factions view the citizenry as stupid sheep - below them - and that the line would form to the left for the opportunity to do so. He explained that a large number of military "lifers" are psychopaths. When they retire from active duty they often enter into law enforcement or .gov agencies where they can exercise their psychotic tendencies. He gave an example of a collegue that was reprimanded for making traffic stops - he would witness and infraction, pull them over in his .gov car, flash his .gov badge and proceed to abuse his non-authority in local LEO matters. He said .gov is full of psycho/sociopaths and that the scary thing, for him, is that they tend to move up the ranks quickly and surround themselves with like minded people (birds of a feather flock together) and actively treat as outcasts those who pose a threat to their positions - ie whistleblowers will be discredited or disappeared with extreme prejudice. It was a scary conversation and, for what it's worth, this guy is seemingly preparing for something (he is gunned up, keeps a very low profile, wife and kids taking self defense classes, etc.).

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:34 | 4361494 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

AmeriKKKa went FULL RETARD NAZI a long time ago ..

Yet the majority of you here still defend it, and the TYLERS of course carefully groom this site, so as not to be BIASED against the PTB that drop's  click-nickels like 'cargo'.

Every once in a while for 'bait' the tylers drop something real like this post, and then its back to bash china or europe 24/7

But make no mistake that all the SHIT in the world is driven by the USA

Like today, UKRAINE, and CHINESE banks, both are problems ran by GS/CIA, goldman-sachs wants to create a banking crisis in China, and the NSA want's a COUP in the UKRAINE...

but it all goes back to the biggest assholes on earth,... everytime in  the USA

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:55 | 4361554 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"but it all goes back to the biggest assholes on earth,... everytime in  the USA"

So all the assholes live here?  Did you forget the guys that run China, Isreal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Kuwait, etc?  To which King are you loyal you fuck?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:09 | 4361586 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

You’re going to have your answer very soon. 2014 Davos has been very easy to narrow down the club.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 06:03 | 4361962 new game
new game's picture

plus an amount equel to money creation and counting...

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 12:08 | 4362808 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Yes JR, many seem to have forgotten  that Snowden stole from his employer

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 12:15 | 4362844 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Snowden once said that it would damage the U.S. if something were to happen to him. By saying this he signed his own death warrent. There are only too many islamic fundamentalists waiting to "take him out" if only to damage the U.S.A. Snowden......R.I.P

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:27 | 4361473 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

MLK Jr say "AMEN BROTHER SNOWDEN!"

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:33 | 4361487 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

No amount of declaring NSA programs illegal will actually stop the programs, because the US is not governed by the Rule of Law, but rather by deception - and where deception fails, by violence.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:38 | 4361510 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

The USA is ruled by SECRECY and DENIAL

SNOWDEN makes it hard to deny, before SNOWDEN those of us who taked of spying were called 'nuts' and it was suggested there was a medical defect.

THe NSA/CIA are off budget and print their OWN FIAT,...

In no time in history was a weapon or tool ever developed by a GUBMINT that didn't get used, for its intended purpose.

***

Fuck all this talk, what are you going to do to take your GUBMINT BACK?

The US Constitution is CLEAR "The people have the right at all time, to abolish their government".

If the USA were a free country, somebody would have already delivered 100's of homemade mortars rain down on the NSA center in UTAH.

**

Anyways at issue is 70% of the USA public belong to the FSA, your all fucking NAZIS, and 'shocked' shocked that your country robs and rapes and murders the world, so it can feed you...

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:44 | 4361526 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

This is America! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwzOZP1l-A COME HOME! GET ARRESTED! BECOME THE MAN!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:46 | 4361535 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Let’s be clear, we need to protect the interests of American’s. As I posted about the KFC drum stick leader earlier, he is skating on thin ice. Uncle Tom is instructed to follow protocol or he ends up like blowjob Bill debacle.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:47 | 4361536 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

The NSA wasn't designed to protect citizens from outide threats. It was designed to protect the criminal ruling class from it's citizens. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:48 | 4361542 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

bingo

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:56 | 4361558 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The question to ask. Will electric and water get cut off from NSA?

http://rt.com/usa/nsa-water-supply-bill-265/

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:10 | 4361570 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

 

 

Do you think it is possible for our democracy to recover from the damage NSA spying has done to our liberties? #AskSnowden 

Yes. What makes our country strong is our system of values, not a snapshot of the structure of our agencies or the framework of our laws. We can correct the laws, restrain the overreach of agencies, and hold the senior officials responsible for abusive programs to account. ...

Our Values?... 

Just ask everyone throughout it's long sordid history how committed "the people" have been to it's "values", when it applies to the Government's strategic self-interest?!!! 

As far as fixing it...

Ed.  Are you prepared to pull a Solzhenitsyn and come home to fight the good fight with the other whistleblowers who never left?

          Just sayin

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:19 | 4361617 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Dear Mr. Snowden,

We promise not to kill you, cross our heart and hope to have our drones taken away.*

Sincerely,

US Ministry of Love

 

 

 

 

*Offer excludes previous offers and discounts and we assume no liability for the condition or function of your breaks.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:40 | 4361665 Morla
Morla's picture

So is Eric Holder ready to arrest himself yet? Might want to call dibs on top bunk before Bush or Obama grab it :P

In all seriousness though, there will probably be two bunks and we know Cheney will be on top of at least one of them. I honestly feel bad for Bush, he seems like a nice guy who was born into / fell into a bad crowd.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:53 | 4361687 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Hmmm..prolly not in RUSSIA anymore

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:05 | 4361706 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Yep, PUTIN only gave him ONE YEAR.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:00 | 4361700 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

I wonder how many defense attorneys are going to challenge probable cause or demand full NSA disclosure based on the recent news that the NSA was giving the FBI and DEA hints based on their illegal snooping and the agencies that received the tip lied about their sources.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:44 | 4361759 Morla
Morla's picture

Probable Cause is a "barbarous relic", don'tcha know.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:09 | 4361708 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Not until the military stands up for the United States of America will we get our country back.

But that is possible once the military realizes there is more money and benefits in a nation with a middle class and a vibrant economy. And, they will especially understand the right choice when the bankster's money becomes worthless..

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:01 | 4361786 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Snowden will never get a fair shake in the U.S.S.A.

Edward, stay away, you are a marked man for challenging the Kleptoligarchy.

Never make a deal because they will stab you in the back, just as they have every individual and familly in the Nation.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 02:23 | 4361810 Morla
Morla's picture

The Man will do ya like he did Bradley/Chelsea Manning. On the other hand, "No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by his assassin's bullet"..

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 09:39 | 4362271 insect0man
insect0man's picture

>>challenging the Kleptoligarchy.

LOL.  The American  Kleptoligarchy - as opposed to the Russian Oprichniki Kleptoligarchy that Comrade Colonel Putin { as short as he is } is a front man for.  Riiiight. 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 03:53 | 4361893 GoldenDonuts
GoldenDonuts's picture

Barry is a constitutional community activist so his view must be correct.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 04:13 | 4361903 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people." Theodore Roosevelt

*

How many years again? Has the US government been non-accountable to the people?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 09:58 | 4362322 insect0man
insect0man's picture

>>How many years again? Has the US government been non-accountable to the people?

The metrosexualized pink shirt on Thursday people?  Those people?

================
"It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages.   The first stage being "demoralization".

It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of [their] enemy. In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generation of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American patriotism." --KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov, circa 1984 --Soviet Subversion of the Free Press (Ideological subversion, Destabilization, CRISIS - and the KGB)

What's LOL in Russian?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 05:43 | 4361949 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

This report will not deter the Regime. Stasi-State tactics will increase. The Chicago Communists behind TOTUS will continue to press for a totalitarian socialist state. Then a civil war will break out again beteween the fascist and communist factions.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 07:44 | 4362030 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

The Truth is  a High Crime... Pass the Apple pie.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:08 | 4362054 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

stay where you are snowden, allot of powerful people were exposed and lost money.  when the us goverment checks start bouncing maybe come back then

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:11 | 4362059 smacker
smacker's picture

The debates that continue about Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning are framed in the context of demanding that both of them are granted clemency, or even the opportunity of a fair hearing by returning to US soil, in the case of Edward Snowden.

In my view this is wrong.

How is it that a criminal government has the authority to grant clemency to someone who exposes its criminality?? Negotiating with criminals is never a good idea.

Such debates assume there is even a case to answer. There is not. The overwhelming evidence is there for all to see. The USG and its criminal NSA organisation violate the law and the Constitution.

End of.

Instead of debating clemency etc, the pressure should be on for those responsible to be arrested and charged with a range of criminal offences and introduced to the comforts of the slammer.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 10:40 | 4362422 insect0man
insect0man's picture

Instead of debating clemency etc, the pressure should be on for those responsible to be arrested and charged with a range of criminal offences and introduced to the comforts of the slammer.

 GeeOpie, don't Holder your breath.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 09:25 | 4362234 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

I'll laugh my @ss off if he is placed on the election ballot in 2016 in all 50 states as an independent.  I'll then sh!t myself while laughing if he snags 30-40% of the vote and the "two" party candidates are left in the low 30s too.  Of course, he'd be Vince Fostered long before that could be a reality...

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 10:27 | 4362415 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

We are now in a situation where the "Mommy" (Holder) we go to for redress of wrongs is the biggest PERPETRAITOR of all.  Can't wait to hear he is under indictment for treason. Finestain and Rogers along with him.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 10:25 | 4362433 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Hang in there Mr. Snowden. You've got a parade coming.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 11:43 | 4362698 RiverDrifter
RiverDrifter's picture

The thing I find most disheartening is the fact that yesterday I was reading through the Q&A with Snowden, virtually watching him tear Barry Soetoro & Co.'s version of this issue apart.  It was great fun.  

Between questions, I open a tab and go to check my yahoo email & see Justin fucking Bieber's smiling mugshot with his Miley Cyrus hair on their front page....and it's on every 24 hour entertainment news's front page, and it's on every news aggregate site's front page...Justin fucking Bieber being the dumbass that he is once again is what the vast majority of people were talking about yesterday at the exact same time Snowden was once again exposing the powers that be over their trampling of the Constitution.

I almost cried at the realization that no matter how much those of us who are awake care, the vast majority would rather talk about Justin fucking Bieber, Miley fucking Cyrus, Duck fucking Dynasty, Honey fucking Boo Boo or the hot new reality show about White Trash Hillbillies

This country has been successfully dumbed down to the point that I honestly feel all is lost.  Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Please??

 

 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 18:57 | 4364732 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

RiverDrifter, you wrote "I almost cried at the realization that no matter how much those of us who are awake care, the vast majority would rather talk about Justin fucking Bieber, Miley fucking Cyrus, Duck fucking Dynasty, Honey fucking Boo Boo or the hot new reality show about White Trash Hillbillies"

Actually that illusion is one of the last shreds of imagined clothing on the Emperor.  It's the ilusion that the world they present to us is a reflection of what "all those other dummies" out there are actually thinking or paying attention to.  I don't really know anyone who doesn't have a pretty good idea they're being lied to, or that our world is a lot more messed up than the one we see on TV.  Yet almost everyone I know thinks they and their closest friends are the only ones who understand, and the real problem is "all those other dummies" who don't.

Some public event will be so glaring, so outrageous that people start speaking out en masse, without worrying about "all those other dummies" - and suddently we'll discover we all agree about a wide range of issues, principles and fundamental values.  It will be a heady day.

On that day the hold of the corporate media on our minds and land will be broken.

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