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US Pacific Commander Warns "Risks Are Growing" Between China & Japan

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While it is becoming increasingly clear that tensions between Japan and China (and in fact most of the Asian nations) are escalating; the fact that Admiral Samuel Locklear - commander of US forces in the Pacific - believes "risk calculations are growing," as the two large powers have a disagreement but are not willing to talk to each other, shows this is more than just talk. As The AP reports, Washington's treat obligations to its ally Japan mean it could be sucked into a conflict.


Via AP,

The commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific says the tensions between China and Japan are likely to grow unless they talk to each other.

 

The two Asian powers are at loggerheads over remote islands that are administered by Japan but also claimed by China.

 

Adm. Samuel Locklear told reporters Thursday that "the risk calculation can grow" when two large powers have a disagreement but are not talking to each other.

 

Locklear said the U.S. has to continue to encourage restraint and professionalism by the two nations' maritime security forces as they operate around the contested islands, and also hope for a diplomatic dialogue.

 

Washington's treaty obligations to its ally Japan mean it could be sucked into a conflict.

 

...

 

"In many cases, those are young naval officers or young civilian mariners who are out there" making decisions, Locklear said.

 

...

 

The Dec. 5 incident involving USS Cowpens and a Chinese naval ship was "unnecessary," Locklear said, attributing it to "unprofessional" Chinese conduct or a "lack of experience."

 

China's defense ministry has given few details about the confrontation — the most serious incident between the two navies since 2009 — but said its ship handled it according to operating procedures. Chinese media reports blamed the U.S. ship for getting too close to vessels escorting China's new aircraft carrier Liaoning.

 

"This just highlights to both of us, to both the PLA and to the U.S. military, that we have to do better at being able to communicate with each other in a way that allows us to not lead to miscalculation," Locklear said, referring to the People's Liberation Army, as China's military is formally known.

 


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Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:55 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey everyone, look over there!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:11 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Let's you and him have a fight.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:11 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Is "sucked into" new-speak for "provoked"?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:17 | Link to Comment zaphod
zaphod's picture

The US only gets sucked into major conflict for oil.

Neither Japan or China have oil.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:25 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

If Gavrio Princip lived today he would hijavk a Japanese fishing vessel, hoist the flag, sail it close to a Chinese frigate, and open fire.  The Chinese would sink it in response and off we go.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:27 | Link to Comment zaphod
zaphod's picture

Please stop giving our betters ideas, they take these "suggestions" seriously.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:42 | Link to Comment johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Anyone care to wager if the Fed's primary shareholders (JPMGSCBACWFCetc) will all suddenly have massive SPX puts in the 120 range 2 hours before the first shot is fired?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:44 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

china v japan...anyone know the over under?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:21 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Well, China is also aggitating with India, The Phillipinnes, Taiwan, and (I think) South Korea. Could get pretty interesting.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:46 | Link to Comment kralizec
kralizec's picture

Yes.  Explains why India and Japan are looking for deeper cooperation, if one wants to survive in the Asian playground one better have allies to fend off the biggest bully on the block.  And unless something escalates into ICBMs the US is likely going to sit it out...I mean what is Obama gonna do?  Attack China?  It is why this talk about the need for "talk" is happening...it's because it is all the US can do at this point.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:45 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

About 5' 2" I'd say.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:37 | Link to Comment rbg81
rbg81's picture

Why is China doing this now?  They probably view it as a golden opportunity because Obama is CINC.  Treaty obligations or not, Obama will not come to the aid of Japan--he will throw them under the bus.  He simply does not have the balls to stand up to China, period.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:39 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What part of bread and circus didn't you get?  Oh, right. You're a NeoCon.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"What part of bread and circus didn't you get?"

I think it was the frrrrreeeee! healthcare after getting droned part.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:43 | Link to Comment rbg81
rbg81's picture

What's your point?  Are you implying that we want China and Japan to go to war?  Or, if it happens, do you think we should just pass the popcorn and watch?  I don't necessarily disagree with the latter course of action.  I just don't think Obama will do jack.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think you're at the wrong site. Here you go:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 10:27 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

rbg81

Maybe not just "implying".

  The dispute is not simply about some small islands.

1) The dispute is about the US-promoted remilitarization of Japan.
2) The dispute is about globalist US plans to control resources, manipulate finances, 
and aggressively "contain" China economically and militarily.
3) The dispute is about Obama's so-called Asian Pivot.

The islands dispute could be settled if the US and Japan were willing to submit the matter to the ICJ (International Court of Justice).
The other matters behind the dispute cannot be resolved so easily.

"International Court of Justice (ICJ) is the world court that handles international boundary disputes at The Hague. The ICJ requires sovereign parties involved in the dispute to accept the court’s jurisdiction and abide by its ruling. Japan’s rejection of an ICJ case therefore indicates serious weaknesses in its territorial claims under existing international law."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-japanese-militarism-and-chinas-air-defen...

"We don't have to refer the matter to a third party for adjudication because the islands indisputably belong to Japan both legally and in actuality," the official said, adding there is no basis for China's claims to the uninhabited islands.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2013/09/246239.html

This is a dispute that both sides should refer to the International Court of Justice, rather than allow to boil over in the streets. That said, when I look at the underlying question of who has the best claim, I’m sympathetic to China’s position. I don’t think it is 100 percent clear, partly because China seemed to acquiesce[*] to Japanese sovereignty between 1945 and 1970, but on balance I find the evidence for Chinese sovereignty quite compelling.
http://www.kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-b...

*["China" acquiesced between 1945 and 1970?  The NY Times must be instead referring to Taiwan, since the US did not officially recognize China until Nixon's visit.]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/americas-military-pivot-to-asia-obama-wants...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/dangerous-crossroads-us-japan-talks-escalat...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

My god Rand, you have just bagged a real live Neo-Con on ZH. Like broken records, they just play the same line over and over again. The corward Obama will hand Japan over to China. Fuck me! Is FOX News off the air for technical problems and the smart conservatives are trolling ZH?

I suggest he switch to RT if FOX is down, it would be fun to see how long it would take for RT's news coverage to make his brain fucking explode like a suitcase nuke that the Chinese are bring into Long Beach on container ships and setting up all across America, for the DAY.

The NeoCon mind is what they meant all those years back on the anti drug commercials "A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Waste". FOX the most watched news channel in America! Now there is a thought to consider when you see the powers that control Washington lie America into invading Iraq for a decade,

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:09 | Link to Comment rbg81
rbg81's picture

Oh, I forgot.  Obama killed bin Laden, so everything is good.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 06:07 | Link to Comment BigJim
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Obama's a puppet, dufus.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed Jim. Obama talks liberal, his policies are the same as Bush. I call him the black Bush. A puppet? Yes.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:32 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste   (full album!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skFa-Qj6ZQE

Thieves 0:00
Burning Inside 5:01
Never Believe 10:21
Cannibal Song 15:20
Breathe 21:31
So What 27:11
Test 35:25
Faith Collapsing 41:29
Dream Song

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:49 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

LOL ... you don't understand the puppet show, er, politics.

  • Japan has been a Jesuit fiefdom (via the Emperor) since 1868.
  • The US has been a Jesuit fiefdom since 1776 (sealed when the "Constitution" replaced the Articles of Confederation in 1789).
  • China has been a Jesuit fiefdom since they trained and financed Mao in 1948.
  • The Philippines has been a Jesuit fiefdom since the US seized it from Spain in the false-flag (remember the Maine?) Spanish-American War of 1898.

One magician holds all the pieces. There's another agenda in play here.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:56 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the Chinese have never been big fans of little things.

http://www.google.com/imgres?newwindow=1&sa=X&rlz=1T4TSNO_enUS457US458&t...

I would be very wary of making such broad generalizations...

Not that i'm not doing the same thing of course.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:06 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

A Buddha diversion? How cute. And transparent. LOL.

So...you have a more cogent analysis that takes into account all of the players? Do tell....

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:19 | Link to Comment Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

You forgot "Silicon Valley is a Jesuit fiefdom". Santa Clara, neh? Anjinsan much!

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 07:10 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Are you by any chance trying to implicate Santa Clara's Leon Panetta - Knight of Malta and Secretary of Defense during the Benghazi stand-down? Or Dame of Malta, and 'Big Sis', Janet Napolitano?

But neither of them are currently involved in this affair in the South China Sea (or in Silicon Valley, as far as I know). Nice diversion, though. Are you also a Jesuit?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 07:51 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog, what's exactly your point? are catholics not citizens? should they have restrictions on what kind of religious orders they are supposed to belong?

for all purposes, you don't deliver any proof or evidence that the Knights of Malta are anything else than a charity org, nowadays

and... it's a voluntary association. with most being knighted because of being catholic and prominent, or for giving money or help for the hospitals. I thought you were a fan of voluntary associations

sure, in the past they were something else. but today? no, I'm not defending Panetta or Napolitano per se. I'm advocating for their religious rights of choosing or keeping their creed and their rights to associate and participate to associations

the logical conclusion to your rants could be that only WASPs should reach the heights of US gov. is this what you are advocating?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:25 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Nice strawman, Ghordius (it's the Order of St.John of Malta, not the Order of Knights of Malta ... knighthoods are the highest grade within the charitable Order ... and you very well know that.

Anyway, this post I made a couple of weeks ago expresses my concern and answers your other logical fallacies:

----------------------------------------------

i-dog Vote up!

13
Vote down!

-2

Interesting question, YHC, and one I'm happy to comment on to [attempt to] clarify my concerns. 

My issue is one of allegiance ... which is not important for doctors (other than to their patients), charity workers, or even businessmen, but it is VERY important to question for political leaders, judges, civil servants, and our 'representatives' on international committees.

The Order of Hospitallers of St.John of Jerusalem began during the Crusades, way back in 1023, in Jerusalem ... so it began, along with the Knights Templar, with the Roman Church's early attempts to wrest control of Jerusalem from the Muslims (after, IMO, losing absolute control over Islam due to the unforeseen split into Sunni and Shi'a). The knights had the same objectives then as do the Zionists today.

As Wiki points out, the Order of St.John (SMOM) is quite large with "about 13,500 members, 80,000 volunteers, and 25,000 mostly medical employees". Like the Freemasons, it is a large charitable organisation with different "levels" of membership, and membership interests. Maybe your doctor friends are simply doing charitable work and have no idea of what may be known by those at the higher levels. For example, my own godfather was a very high level Freemason, and his father was the most senior 33rd degree Freemason in the country ... yet they were wonderful and charitable people (though highly political and 'connected' at the very highest levels, including hosting British royalty). At the time, I had no idea about the difference between the lowest 3 'degrees' of Freemasonry (which is entirely social/charitable, though serves as the incubator and selection pool for the higher levels) and the objectives of the higher degrees of the "Scottish Rite" (which is a Jesuit concoction introduced just 4 years after Freemasonry was taken over by the Illuminati). We never even discussed Freemasonry. I suspect this was not only because I have been an atheist from a very young age, but also because I was a rebel from a very young age. I'm not good at blindly following orders or at group-think.

I also comment often and negatively about the Jesuits, yet they also feature a split between those who take the basic 3 vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and those who go on to take the 4th vow. At the lower levels, the Jesuits are primarily involved in providing educational and scientific research establishments.

Those whom I rail against are those Jesuits in the political arena, as well as those cloistered and beavering away on political propaganda. It is worth noting that kings, emperors and popes have shared my concern over the centuries and have therefore banned the Jesuits from more than 80 countries from time to time for political meddling. In Japan, their priests and converts were even executed. Nagasaki was payback...pure and simple.

Yale's notorious Skull & Bones secret society is another Jesuit example: Only 15 boys are 'tapped' into the society each year and are sworn to secrecy (under very serious threats for breaching that secrecy), but they are also continually tutored, tested and monitored for the qualities that will see them selected later for key positions in government and the military. I'm sure that many, or even most, fail the tests and have no further involvement with the Jesuits' global agenda, though still remaining absolutely silent about what they learned and were subjected to as initiates.

I do not believe "the Vatican" have always been involved with the Zionists. There have been many battles over the centuries between the Jesuits (and their predecessors) and the Papacy. But I believe the Jesuits (who currently control the Vatican) are the Zionists (also acting through their alter-ego, the Sabbatean-Frankist-Ashkenazi Jews).

Ignatius Loyola himself was a Khazar Marrano (crypto-Jew) and was twice brought before the Dominican-led Spanish Inquisition before founding "The Company" (interestingly, a sobriquet also shared among members of both the CIA and Skull & Bones). Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illuminati, was also a Sabbatean-Frankist Khazar who was Jesuit trained and occupied the Jesuit chair of Canon Law at Ingolstadt University in Bavaria at the time he founded the Illuminati.

Back to the SMOM: Your doctor friends, if they were indeed "knighted" into the Order (ie. swore allegiance to the Black Pope, superceding allegiance to any other sovereign entity), then they share common allegiance to the Black Pope with such illustrious servants of the American people as:

  • Dwight Eisenhower, Nelson Rockefeller, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush, Joe Biden, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.
  • General William Westmoreland, Henry Kissinger, General Alexander Haig, Pat Buchanan, Richard Holbrooke, Robert Gates, Robert Zoellick, and Joseph Schmitz (the inspector general who "lost" $2.3 trillion in the Pentagon on his watch).
  • J.Edgar Hoover, "Wild Bill" Donovan, Allen Dulles, Cardinal Avery Dulles, John McCone, Robert McNamara, William Colby, James Jesus Angleton, William Casey, George Tenet, John C. Gannon, Michael Chertoff and Erik Prince.
  • Michael Bloomberg, Rudy Giuliani, George Pataki, and John Bolton.

...as well as some deceased luminaries, such as: William Randolph Hearst, Amschel Mayer Rothschild (eldest brother of Nathan Mayer Rothschild), Tip O'Neil, William F. Buckley, Joe Kennedy, Ted Kennedy and Larry Patton McDonald.

Some pretty illustrious company in the political and military arena that your friends keep! (though, admittedly, only from my American list).

On Pope Francis, I will only comment that he is the first openly Jesuit Pope. Most of the Popes since the mid-18th century (apart from a couple who were poisoned) were Jesuit-trained and some have even been suspected of being crypto-Jews. Benedict was even SMOM.

I hope that long ramble helps you...and others who may see this before this thread quickly goes dead.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:28 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog... do you have any proof or any evidence except for the fact that catholics and their orders and associations exist? I was wishing for an answer here

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:49 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Do you have any proof or any evidence that anything I stated above is materially incorrect?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 12:33 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog, you state that you believe that "the Jesuits" (a group to which you include "Jesuit-trained" people) are Zionists. based on the fact that a different order, i.e. the Knights, wanted to free Jerusalem from the Muslims (like all Crusaders). can't disprove that you believe that, but isn't tenuos?

you also believe that the bombing of Nagasaki was payback. again, can't prove or disprove anything about that, but how about Hiroshima, then? though I fail to see the logic of bombing the most catholic of all Japanese cities out of revenge against... what? the Japanese removal of Jesuit influence?

but again, I'd prefer if you would answer my other questions. meanwhile this: do we agree that all those groups - Jesuits, Knights of Malta, the College of Cardinals, the Catholic Priesthood, etc. - are formed by mostly good people who voluntarily join to give their best to improve the world?

do we agree that those are voluntary organizations, the very thing you advocate as superior vs non-voluntary orgs like states?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 06:35 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Dear Ghordius, I hope you don't mind if I don't get sucked into your disingenuous sophistry. Your combined posts are a spaghetti soup of conflations and other fallacies. Kind regards.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 06:46 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Dear i-dog, I am, after all, "Jesuit-trained" (went to a Jesuit school). and they do advocate the alternance of curiosity and logic

so you don't like my questions above. ok, I'll try with a new approach to find the lowest common denominator between us

Holy Lands/Israel: what importance has this territory to you? if you had five minutes before a seriously powerful audience willing to listen and act, what would you advocate?

I think this is the most sophistry-devoid question I can pose

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 06:54 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

I'd prefer that you address my only serious concern - that of allegiance, and specifically for politicians, judges, bureaucrats and representatives.

I have no advocacy at all for the "holy lands". As a voluntarist and atheist, those lands are of abslolutely no importance to me whatsoever (apart from contributing to their economy by way of tourism). I believe that is a question solely for the inhabitants for the time being of those lands to determine.

Are you advocating for uninvited interference in their internal affairs ... and seeking my approval?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 08:03 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ah. ok. I was still under the spell of this guy's allegation you'd be a Christian Zionist or something (he hinted at the websites you quote). then let's put away the Holy Land discussion, or your "the Jesuits are setting the Jews up to take the blame [as usual]" comment, then I don't know how seriously you meant that

allegiance. it's a heavy word. like duty, honour, faith. they speaks loudly to my conservative soul, instead of my liberal mind or my heart

two extremes, imho:

- the British still ban Catholics from certain offices. Blair had to wait until his Prime Ministership ended to convert

- on the other side, the liberal practice of considering personal privacy, religion and association a sacrosanct right of everybody, even when officials of a state

personally, I prefer the last. but that's a personal preference, and a very unhelpful one in regard to your concerns, I realize. further, I understand that you see the British Royals as part of this network anyway.

the only thing that might help there is, imho the ancient Roman practice of having a "good conduct" process of all politicians, judges and bureaucrats after their spell. they can be dangerously overpoliticized, but it was the "best practice" for a long while. note that you can't make one for elected representatives, but that's another story

just an idea. cheers

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:56 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

You again side-stepped the critical question of a politician (or one of the other categories I listed) swearing allegiance to a sovereign country, its flag, its constitution and its people ... then (or prior) swearing an oath of allegiance to another sovereign and military order with competing interests. By all accounts, the oath sworn by a knight to the Jesuit Superior General supercedes all prior or subsequent oaths, on pain of onerous penalty.

By the way, the lifetime oath sworn to the Jesuit Superior General by initiates into Yale's Skull & Bones secret society is of a similar nature ... which is entirely inappropriate for someone who later becomes a Supreme Court Justice, a Director of Central Intelligence, or a President of the United States. Don't you agree?

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 07:45 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I fully agree that a Jesuit priest, by his public oath of obedience to the Pope (a sovereign) could be seen as having two "masters". And this was immediately persecuted, for example in England with the Jesuits Act of 1584, requesting that all Jesuits have to either swear an oath to obey the Queen or leave the country. The Swiss had a civil war about that 1848, and personally I understand who wants to ban Jesuit priests from public office. Currently, out of 22'000 Jesuit priests, there aren't any I know of that have been elected or appointed to office. this does not cover talking or writing about politics, or setting up schools, or advising politicians

But a Knight of the Sovereign Order of Malta? Completely different legal setup and precedent history. As a Knight, you don't swear political allegiance to the Order or the Pope. Yes, any Knight joining the banners during war would be expected to be under military discipline, particularly on warships. But otherwise? No way. A multiple citizen of modern sovereigns has way more conflicts than a Citizen & Knight - particularly because the Order is not at war since 1798

of course, dual or multiple citizenship can be an issue. yes. yet where is the difference between voting for someone that is both Athenian and Spartan or for someone that is only Athenian but gives his son the name "Spartan"? the issue is old, my example is a historic reference

I'm sorry, but some of your assuptions are based on strong associations between Jesuit priest = Knight of Malta = Yale's Skull & Bones "secret" society

I'm no expert on the Bonesmen, but I happen to know that for most of it's existence, the Skull & Bones society at Yale was reserved to White, Anglo-Saxon & Protestant members of rich and politically influential US East Coast families. Are you sure you are reading from websites that have any interest in facts? A Jesuit Superior General being involved in the secret initiation, besides being preposterous, would be a quite recent change to a club where Catholics used to be barred from joining at all

if true, this would mean that the "Black Pope" has recently infiltrated a previously already influential organization, previously known for it's Anti-Catholicism

sorry, i-dog, but methinks you are reading websites that are not much interested in facts. remember that writing conspiracy theories against the Catholic Church has a tradition that goes back to The Jesuit Plot of 1605, also known as The Gunpowder Plot

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:10 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Though I find your persistent resort to ad hominem insulting in the extreme, I will address a couple of your other fallacies just to set you straight:

1. Though Jesuit priests (which I did not mention...you have brought them into the conversation to deliberately confuse the issue) do not hold public office, they have been driven out of more than 80 countries over recent centuries specifically for devoting themselves to meddling in the political affairs of those countries.

2. The Knights of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta are acting in a state of war ... on two counts. Firstly, they are at war against all other religions. Secondly, the western countries are in a declared state of war against terrorism, drugs, poverty and a dozen other contrived nonsenses. The US has been in a State of Emergency not only since 9-11, but much earlier (can't be bothered looking back through my notes right now).

3. The Jesuit Skull & Bones society has been a crypto-Jesuit society from its very inception - financed from the spoils of Samuel Russell's Jesuit 'black ships' of the China opium trade and conducting its rituals around the actual skull and the bones of Torquemada himself.

Your willful ignorance on these matters is quite disturbing, Ghordius. You need to branch away from apologist websites and read some properly researched books.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ad homs? where? in the fantasy world of all the websites that spring up whenever someone googles jesuit+conspiracy?

yes, they have been driven out. are they the same people that were driven out? in some cases over 100 years passed

the SMOM at war? how? a secret war? "at war against all other religions"? then where are the warships? where are the troops?

how do you set up a crypto-Jesuit society (at it's inception) in a pure WASP environment like Yale in past times?

which are those properly researched books?

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 21:39 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Attempting to refute historical facts by means of semantics and negative inferences is truly pitiful, Ghordius. It's pure sophistry.

I think we're done.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 08:14 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

a second, different question to the issue of divided or multiple allegiances of officials

you wrote "As a voluntarist and atheist, those lands are of abslolutely no importance to me whatsoever (apart from contributing to their economy by way of tourism). I believe that is a question solely for the inhabitants for the time being of those lands to determine"

all inhabitants? or only the citizens? meaning the proper citizens, with the proper religion, affiliations, allegiances and so on?

I get the impression that you wish for fair treatment of all inhabitants of all territories in general, yet balk at it in specific cases

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 08:27 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

a third answer. to a specific point "By all accounts, the oath sworn by a knight to the Jesuit Superior General supercedes all prior or subsequent oaths, on pain of onerous penalty."

By no account. A Knight of Malta does not swear any oaths to a Jesuit, even if the "Jesuit Superior General". In fact, a Knight of Malta makes a chivalrous oath of defending the faith, not to obedience to anything

which of course can provoke serious issues. let's say I'm French and a Knight Hospitallier. France declares war on the Catholic Church, starts to expropriate convents, bans the rites, closes the churches, persecutes the priests. then of course the oath has some weight. it happened during the French Revolution, for example

I have no clue what the Knights of Columbus do. but again, they are something completely different. which leads again to the thing that you mix all them together

and what onerous penalty would that be, anyway?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 07:54 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog, a completely different angle for you to ponder upon: if the world would shift to voluntarysm, the Knights of Malta would play an even bigger role

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:19 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"The two Asian powers are at Roggerheads..."

fify

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Brilliant! Roggerheads! +100

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:20 | Link to Comment dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Earlier there was a post on a CNN website stating China has dumped US treasuries. People are claiming it was a hack job but nobody knows for sure. TYLER PLEASE FIND OUT WHAT YOU CAN ABOUT THIS!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Ness.
Ness.'s picture

It was a hack job.  Absolutely no movement in bonds.  

 

ZBH4

Open:  132-09

High: 132-10

Low:  132-05

Last:  132-06

 

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:58 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
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Must be time for annual Budget Reviews again.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:06 | Link to Comment tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

no look

over here

no this way

and that way

just keep spinning suckers..

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Translation:  keep buying gold and we'll have our proxy start a war.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:56 | Link to Comment shiftless
shiftless's picture

Y'all ready for WW3?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:58 | Link to Comment El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Tora! Tora! Tora! ...  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgX1WBf2SjE

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:00 | Link to Comment DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Careful what you wish for there shiftless.

I think this next war will come ashore, hence it will prove nasty for us plebes...

DaddyO

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:12 | Link to Comment tawse57
tawse57's picture

Yep, a war with China will threaten the US mainland in ways unseen since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Aw, shit.  Although we played the game as kids, I never thought I'd actually be drinking deer blood, Red Dawn style up in the hills.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:25 | Link to Comment LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

LOL is that part of the I'd rather be dead than red game?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:33 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

IT'S NASTY FOR US PLEBES ANYWAY.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:44 | Link to Comment shiftless
shiftless's picture

-- I think this next war will come ashore, hence it will prove nasty for us plebes...

You are right about one thing. WW3 will be fought on American soil. It won't be nasty for me though....cause my ass is getting prepared for the inevitable. I'm dropping off the grid John Galt style. Everybody better get right with Jesus asap.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:06 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

let's get'er done....... It's where this shit show winds up anyway....

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:57 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

international incident -> DJIA drops -> Gold drops -> flight to quality -> dollar up -> Chinese buy low price gold with high value dollars

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:17 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It's all about cover for the Central Banks. "Everything was going great and our policies were vindicated but then [fill in international incident 'beyond CB control'] happened."

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Bingo, LTER!  Nailed it.

It's cover AND retarded-rich wealth-generating all in one.  A true win-win.  Bastards.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Looks like debt and inflation are getting out of control. As is domestic production (US at least) is sinking too low. What better way to boost income, provide cover for massive out of thin air currency creation, than war. All you need is an event that galvanizes the sheeple. The people in charge of all these major economies need this. It will boost demand, and provide a nice little distraction. Who is gona worry about the debt or all that NSA stuff when we have a new enemy to fight.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:12 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

Don't forget the massive unemployment rates for the worlds youth. What do you do with an entire generation of non-productive young people?

There will be no recovery great enough to put these young folks to work.

What could they possibly produce, and more importantly who would buy.

We have passed all the exits, a world wide population crash of massive proportions is in order.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 20:59 | Link to Comment Truther
Truther's picture

War BITCHEZ.... Get used to it. Got PHIZZZ?

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Cornholiovanderbilt
Cornholiovanderbilt's picture

====S

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:04 | Link to Comment reader2010
reader2010's picture

That's bullshit. Do you really think the Chinese are preparing a war with the most important US client state while the kids of the chief are parking $4 Trillion in the US backyard?  This is just a decoy,  folks,  plain and simple.  The real motive is to have governments bankroll the MIC for pure profits! 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

No, the US is preparing a war with China through its proxy.  False flag in 3...2...1...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:02 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

I just know that one of these days; somewhere, the can will no longer go down the road. 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:03 | Link to Comment rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

 "risk calculations are growing,"

 

just wtf does that mean? is this dipshit trying to say that the probability of a Chinese-Japanese conflict is increasing? ...risk calculations are growing....wtf is wrong with these people...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:35 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

Oh, you didn't get he cheat sheet? And it hasn't been "war" for awhile, it's a "kinetic engagement".

Mindless bullshit phrases to hide the horrible and disgusting. Like "inappropriate behavior" meaning you stuck your dick in an 18 year old unpaid intern's mouth.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:05 | Link to Comment Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

December 11, 1941 Germany Declares War on the USA

I thought that sentence in the article looked familiar:

Washington's treaty obligations to its ally Japan mean it could be sucked into a conflict.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:08 | Link to Comment tawse57
tawse57's picture

The US began building a Pacific Empire in the 1800s and expanded it rapidly in the 1900s. The US were in China in the 1890s along with other Western powers and effectively made the Philippines, amongst many islands, an American colony.

Americans like to kid themselves that they were not an imperialistic power like the British, French, Spanish, Dutch, Japan or Belgium but the expansion, domination and control of so many Pacific countries by America is a matter of record. Why do you think MacArthur was in Manilla with such a large military force?

I only mention this because America is right up to its eyeballs in any war between China and Japan. Suckered in? What a joke. For 150 years the US has had territorial designs on much of the Pacific.

I hope war will be avoided but I doubt it. In some respects sooner than later might result in less deaths.

 

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft called the rape, pillage, and murder of the Filipinos at the hands of our military "civilizing" them.  If they had only been smart enough to call it "spreading freedom and democracy".

Man, I'd like to put some dynamite in a couple of the faces on Mt. Rushmore.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

And we used to call this economic shitshow a "panic" for hundreds of years, until FDR called it a "depression", now it's a recession/green shoots.

 

Words matter and TPTB are masters in bullshit talk.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:28 | Link to Comment unrulian
unrulian's picture

Wow ...i skipped a beat when i read that...good one

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:29 | Link to Comment 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Truth or dare?

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:10 | Link to Comment JackT
JackT's picture

More like "hint"

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Pink Floyd - (HQ) Money (1973)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qFYmsuC01c (6:34)

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:14 | Link to Comment 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Yeah... just like Pearl Harbor was a "surprise attack".

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:22 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Supwise attack.  Of extwaordinary magnitude.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Like 9/11, our Government prayed for a Pearl Harbor. Imagine if you will any good reason why the US Government would have stopped Pearl Harbor attack or the 9/11 Saudia Arabian Terror attack. Both provided The Powers That Be with the pretext they needed, wanted and prayed for to trash the constitution and do whatever they pleased on the grounds of defending America from what they probably knew was coming.

The US Navy had broken the Jap merchant and naval codes before Pearl Harbor, YET, the entire fucking IJN fleet sailed from it's home ports in the south to a port in the north, and then sailed the whole fucking fleet to Pearl Harbor, and the USN didn't know? The IJN practiced the attack for months on a harbor on mainland Japan, the locals all discussed the constant naval aircraft zooming over the harbor. Yet US naval intelligence with many agetns in Japan didn't know what the IJN 6 aircraft carriers were doing. That stretches the mind too far to believe. Do not get me going on 9/11. The FBI had one of the plane highjackers in jail, they had his computer, they had reports of arabs learning to fly jumbo jets at flying schools. Asked afterward the FBI said "Nobody could have guessed" Holy FUCK, people believe that?????

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 23:19 | Link to Comment edotabin
edotabin's picture

In addition, the Australian navy had seen the Japanese fleet and provided a warning.  After the attack, they removed the decryption device by moving off the island IIRC. I saw this stuff years ago in documentaries on History/Learning Channel ....one of those.... I remember thinking it was so odd because the whole LIE was exposed in 2-3 small sentences right on TV for everyone to see.

I love it when you hear the "cooked up/remix" version. "That day, just by luck, all the carriers were out to sea"

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Yes "edotabin" you hit the nail on the head. All Carriers at sea on the Day? They were all put in safe places before hand. All that was left were old World War I battleships of no military value in 1941. The codes were broken, and the USN's intelligence had one main job, Keep Track of IJN Carriers. All six could sail north and then sail out to sea with the USN knowing nothing. That is impossible!!

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Paracelsus
Paracelsus's picture

From what I have seen of the mutual defense treaties,they have loopholes you could drive a Nimitz class carrier thru.Course if you want to go to war there's always the Tonkin gulf type thing "authorizing all necessary measures".

Most Americans aren't aware that there was a large potential for dispute in the First world war,between America and the UK,over the British confiscation of cargos destined for Europe.The British legal position of "continuous voyage" attempting to quarantine Europe from all products.This is interesting in light of later purchases of Austrian made binoculars by the British thru third party neutrals.The UK went to war with no optics industry.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:18 | Link to Comment tawse57
tawse57's picture

Yes, America will soon be forced to buy all its iphones and ipads by the third party island of Tonga.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

 

 

Daddy-O "I think this next war will come ashore, hence it will prove nasty for us plebes..."

Tawse57: "Yep, a war with China will threaten the US mainland in ways unseen since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. "

 

 

I'm not seeing and heavy lift capabilites, did I miss something?  If they hammer CONUS with nukes.... well all bets are off and everyone dies, here and there.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:22 | Link to Comment tawse57
tawse57's picture

Chinese subs can surface off the West Coast and cruise missile US cities. They have been recorded on the surface a few times in recent years except that the mainstream US media does not report it.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:03 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Why would they nuke US cities?  Payback would be a bitch, so it's more prudent to let us continue destroying ourselves.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:18 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Bankers stole everyone's money, Rothchilds want control of the China Sea oil reserves.

Its fightin time. Good bye Japan. OBama goin to keep me safe. Bankers paid for blimps over I-95

Let the controlled nuclear exchange with China begin.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bread an circuses. Everybody needs a distraction and a boogie man, but when you peel back the curtain they are all sipping champaign together and having their way with little boys. Fuck them all.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Dr. You are correct. And I always wonder why the elites all seem to want to fuck little boys up the ass. Is it a power thing?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:31 | Link to Comment matinee55
matinee55's picture

this does not fit the narative either delete this immediately or blame the video

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:36 | Link to Comment matinee55
matinee55's picture

perhaps we could pay Iran $$$$ to nuk China?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:46 | Link to Comment teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

germany south korea phillipines and japan---that's almost 150,000 troops. permanent. US TROOPS . there's years long talk of american nukes stationed in the pacific theatre, possibly okinawa or on japan itself. 

 

the carry trade is the way in which the u.s. financial oligarchs suck value persistently out the japanese system. it is THE financial tax they pay in return for being part of the western oligarchic system. 

the military tax they pay is that they cannot have their own military and are required to depend on our military. how would a vassal government of any kind threaten a counter-super power. that's like the tribes of gaul threatening the persians while under roman control. 

 

the u.s. is instigating conflict and baiting china into a conflict same as they use georgia and ukraine to bait russia into conflict. it's not going to happen. the chinese are too smart. they will win before engaging in a real fight. 

 

the japense are like a ventriloquist puppet with nato's hand up their ass. 

when you think about the inertia and incompetence of the war machine---it is feasible they think they can set up a winning military strategy for enervating china. given that our FINANCIAL strategy managed by the oligarchs has set china up for financial dominance, i do think ti is reasonable to conclude that not all oligarchs have all the same goals. military minded oligarchs win by the full breakdown of trade resulting in domestic anger giving them political fuel for a potential war. the financial oligarchs want contiuous unbroken lines of debasement. 

 

the financial oligarchs want to turn the u.s. into the u.k. and china into the u.s. ---to them what difference should it make so long as they get paid . 

the military oligarchs understand that in a full scale war there will opportunities for major domestic looting ( 'nationalization')  and that financial oligarchs will be forced to fund all sides or choose sides. full scale war gives the generals extraodinary power, now they are just prostituted  weapons contractor  and trade negotiation tools. in a real war----they become much more, gaining the power to seize domestic assets in the name of naitonal security. 

 

japan---japan is totally fucked. venezual style but with a big angry superpower still harboring grudges against them for raping their country in world war 2. i could see the chinese tibetifying japan after american hands over the japanese subsequent to a bond market crash. 

 

anythings possible....

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:55 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

Well thought out comment. Thanks for your time, effort, and perspective.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:47 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

If risks are growing between them, then just stay the fuck out from between them.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:52 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

That's like saying don't take on unpayable national debts, is it not?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 21:51 | Link to Comment ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Old Bla Bla is heading up our efforts. What could possibly go wrong?

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

The US still "occupies" Japan so what the fuck is the US Pacific Commander (undoubtedly prompted by "Pacific-Pivot" World-Class-Killer Obama) angling for?  A new trillion-dollar archipelago of Pacific Attack Bases to soak the taxpayer for yet another military build up?  Ah, yeah, the public is tiring of the Iraq/Afghan set of wars, so they need to create a new threat.  These filthy warmongers seem like they are itching to start WW3....or WW2 1/2...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:15 | Link to Comment Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

US still occupies Japan, correct-- that's why this is more us aggression trying to start ww3. Everytime you turn around they are trying to start a war. They want to be attacked. Pissing the world off ( snowden) is part of this. USA will be victim of first strike from Russia. Here's why.

http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/threats.html

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Obama.. chap. You’re so over your head. You have two choices.

 

  • Do a JFK speech and mean what he stated as a Democrat.
  • Become a Pablo Emilio Escobar by hiding from your taxpayers pitchforks.

I really don’t care, you painted yourself into this situation. Whether you claim racism, you have made your own bed. Doesn’t matter if the POTUS is red, yellow, blue or looks like the color of a KFC dark meat drum stick. You have made some bad choices Mr. Obama.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

He sold his soul to be able to sit in the driver's seat and operate all the controls.  Reference Rivera's mural (complete with drones in upper left; mirrors left and right to watch himself; and his spiritual daddy Lenin at his side):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Palacio_de_Bellas_Ar...

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

 

Anyone who thinks Obama is running this show, please raise your hand.

...Anyone?

 

Obama is a shill. I don't know who really is calling the shots, but it certainly isn't him.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Look, if Obama suddenly disappeared, all of this shit would still be happening.  However, he's the current front guy so I move to discredit him first.  He can't be excused for being the Front Man.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:24 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

US getting sucked in? US is prodding Japan to be its suicide bomber, so it can have the cover with the Asians not to look like the imperialistic Tyrant it actually us.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:26 | Link to Comment The Final Straw
The Final Straw's picture

It says "As the Edmonton Journal reports..." on the main page and "As AP reports..." in the article. ???

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:39 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Give Japan some nukes and military hardware  and say China is all yours. All the Japanese companies can relocate in Michigan and problem solved.

China is like Japan of the 1930's. An industrial superpower and an increasing military power.

 

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Reaper
Reaper's picture

The Chinese will cower before the Mighty Obama, slayer of Osama.   Or so, he hopes.

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:44 | Link to Comment f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

In 5 years Japan will cease to be a country. They won't be able to give Japan away. It will be on the market for 80 Million years. (1/2 Life of Plutonium)

Thu, 01/23/2014 - 22:57 | Link to Comment shutdown
shutdown's picture

 

Dear Japan. Please change your flag back to the more colorful, flashy way it was before WWII.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

could Japan to to war against China.?   .. Not in your dreams.

Could China go to war against Japan... well yeah...

But what side is the cosmic muslim and the generals he has not fired yet on???

Don't know at this point. 

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 01:13 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

China knows we have treaty obligations to Japan.

The question is will we honor those treaty obligations against China; which supplies a majority of the goods sold in U.S. Stores.

The other question is, will China push war at the risk of losing all it's U.S. Treasuries.

Of course, if their shadow banking system is failing the loss of U.S Treasuries could be moot as the PLA could declare martial law and the Chinese Central Bank could print 100 Trillion Yuan overnight.

Their ambition for control of the Pacific and global expansion into Africa and South America could far outweigh the value of U.S. Treasuries, exports, and relevance.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 06:10 | Link to Comment vyeung
vyeung's picture

typical US tactics of the barn is burning at home, but hey people look abroad more STHTF and its a bigger problem NOT.

China is a big enough place and attacking Japan a place with next to no natural resources and half the dame island radioactive is not in China's interest. They have enough problems at home.

 

Its only the US hedgemy and the need to prop up the USD and increase arms sales that the US keeps pursuing these pathetic and in-human foreign policy strategies and tactics. All at the cost of innocent American blood and talent. I mean I get defending you country for good and all, but the people in control in the US don't give a rats except to line their pockets with $$$ EVEN WHEN ITS COVERED WITH INNOCENT BLOOD. All the dame senators and president's should go to the front line if they want to fight so much. Send their sons and daughters to the frontline, not the national guard in some bunker. TIRED OF THIS BULLSHIT.

 

My grandfather served in the air-force and discharge with honors to defend this country, but what they have done to the US would make him SICK and DISGUSTED. A once great nation is now controlled by a bunch of thugs who do not conform to the US constitution.

Fri, 01/24/2014 - 08:21 | Link to Comment smacker
smacker's picture

If the USG gets dragged into a conflict between Japan and China, it would meet all the tick-sheet tests necessary, which raises the question of whether it would be "dragged in" or a "willing participant":

 - it's a long way from home, so no damage on US soil.

 - it provides a rise in military weapons exports.

 - it creates an excuse to introduce ever more domestic laws/regulation/surveillance.

 - probably justifies new domestic capital controls.

 

Difficult to see what's taking so long to get started.

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