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The FT Goes There: "Demand Physical Gold" As One Day Paper Price Manipulation Will End "Catastrophically"

Tyler Durden's picture


What have we done: after a series of reports in late 2012 in which we showed, with no ambiguity, that not only might the Bundesbank's offshore held gold be severely "diluted" (follow our 2012 exposes on German gold here, here, here, and here), but that on at least one occassion, the Fed and the Bank of England conspired against the Buba in returning subpar quality gold, the Bundesbank shocked everyone in early January 2013 when it announced it would repatriate 300 tons of gold helt in New York and all of its 374 tons of gold held in Paris. But convincing the Bundebsbank to demand delivery was peanuts compared to changing the tune of the Financial Times - that bastion of fiat "money", and where the word gold is mocked and ridiculed, and those who see the daily improprieties in the gold market as nothing but "conspiracy theorists" - to say the magic words: "Learn from Buba and demand delivery for true price of gold", adding that "one day the ties that bind this pixelated gold may break, with potentially catastrophic results."

In other words, precisely what we have been saying since the beginning.

Welcome to the 'conspiracy theorist' club, boys.

From the FT's Neil Collins: "Learn from Buba and demand delivery for true price of gold: One day the ties that bind the actual and the traded commodity will snap:

A year ago the Bundesbank announced that it intended to repatriate 700 tons of Germany’s gold from Paris and New York. Although a couple of jumbo jets could have managed the transatlantic removal, it made security sense to ship the load in smaller consignments. Just how small, and over how long, has only just become apparent.


Last month Jens Weidmann, Bundesbank president, admitted that just 37 tons had arrived in Frankfurt. The original timescale, to complete the transfer by 2020, was leisurely enough, but at this rate it would take 20 years for a simple operation. Well, perhaps not so simple. While he awaits delivery, Herr Weidmann is welcome to come and look through the bars in the Federal Reserve’s vaults, but the question is: whose bars are they?


In the “armchair farmer” fraud you are told: “Look, this is your pig, in the sty.” It works until everyone wants physical delivery of their pig, which is why Buba’s move last year caused such a stir. After all nobody knows whether there are really 260m ounces of gold in Fort Knox, because the US government won’t let auditors inside.


The delivery problem for the Fed is a different breed of pig. The gold market is far more than exchanging paper money for precious metal. Indeed the metal seems something of a sideshow. In June last year the average volume of gold cleared in London hit 29m ounces per day. The world’s mines are producing 90m ounces per year. The traded volume was many times the cleared volume.


The paper gold in the London Bullion Market takes the familiar forms that bankers have turned into profit machines: futures, options, leveraged trades, collateralised obligations, ETFs . . . a storm of exotic instruments, each of which is carefully logged, cross-checked and audited.


Or perhaps not. High-flying traders find such backroom work tedious, and prefer to let some drone do it, just as they did with those money-market instruments that fuelled the banking crisis. The drones will have full control of the paper trail, won’t they? There’s surely no chance that the Fed’s little delivery difficulty has anything to do with the cat’s-cradle of pledges based on the gold in its vaults?


John Hathaway suspects there is. He worries about all the paper (and pixels) linked to gold. He runs the Tocqueville gold fund (the clue is in the name) and doesn’t share the near-universal gloom of London’s gold analysts, who a year ago forecast an average $1700 for 2013. It is currently $1,260.


As has been remarked here before, forecasting the price is for mugs and bugs. But one day the ties that bind this pixelated gold may break, with potentially catastrophic results. So if you fancy gold at today’s depressed price, learn from Buba and demand delivery.



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Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:56 | 4366558 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Catastrophically for those not holding the phyzz. My shiny is excited about true price discovery. It'll feel like the prettiest girl at the dance.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:57 | 4366562 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

It is perfectly legal to sell things that you don't have.   cough...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:59 | 4366566 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Germany has big guns.....and they can't even get their gold back.


Apparently it's been......ummm.......misplaced.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:18 | 4366604 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Germany is toast and has been for 60 years.......the masters of the universe stole their gold and it AINT COMIN get over're OWNED....wait let me rephrase that......WE'RE all owned in the West..........we just don't want to admit Warren Buffoon said......when the tide goes out you'll see who's wearin a swim suit....

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:32 | 4366645 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Deutche GOLD Go "Bye Bye Mister"

""Fed 'almost assuredly' no longer has Bundesbank's gold, Gold Newsletter's Lundin says""

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:02 | 4366727 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

I see the Serial Junker is back...

Junk away ya chicken shit.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:06 | 4366740 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

GOLD Is Being Siphoned Out Of The GLD ETF.
Another Five Tonnes GONE At Weeks End From The Vaults.


Value US$32,189,109,567.02

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:28 | 4366803 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

You didn't repatriate that !

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:01 | 4366867 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It costs five dollars to dig it out of the ground.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:28 | 4366931 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"If you like your gold, I unfortunately must inform you, due to the biggest Pyramid Scheme in the history of mankind being implemented the world over, known as fractional reserve banking, that creates fiat currency not from gold nor any other tangible thing whatsoever, but conjures it purely from thin air... can not have your gold nor keep it if you were foolish enough to have any fractional reserve central bank act as a custodial Hailee of your gold."

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:08 | 4366995 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Well, that's what they get for ever trusting the Jewish banking system.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:14 | 4367007 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I hate auto spellchecker - it's supposed to read custodial "bailee" and not Hailee above.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:23 | 4367016 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

The FT says that the LBMA trades 29 million oz. per day.

That is the end of day amount after netting between trading houses.  The actual daily trading is 10x times that amount or 290 million oz. per day which is 900x as much as the gold that is mined globally each day.

This exchange was carefully designed to trade paper instead of gold and the FT is a bit late after ignoring this issue for decades while bubbles were blown worldwide and the central bankers said 'wow there is no inflation - see the price of gold is low'.

The gold price rig was carefully coordinated by the BIS.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:35 | 4367136 mister33
mister33's picture

b.i.n.g.o. and bingo was his name-o

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:47 | 4367164 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Interestingly FT published an article the other day about analysts being extremely bearish based on a survey of 28 folks who last year predicted gold would avg 1700$ (in 2013) lol

Explaining their caution this year, analysts cited a possible strengthening of the US dollar, an oversupply of gold and potential further ETF sales. Weak inflationary pressure was another concern, since gold is viewed by investors as an inflation hedge. 

Oversupply of gold? 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:50 | 4367177 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yep, only when you HAVE to double your trouble!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:01 | 4367202 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture
Comex Potential Claims Per Deliverable Ounce are only 112:1  
Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:15 | 4367429 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Gold, bitchez!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 23:24 | 4367764 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

The idea of buying gold but not taking delivery of the physical gold seems insane. You think someone will look after your investment better than yourself?

It's like calling the cops and waiting a half hour for them to arrive during a violent home invasion vs. shooting the perps yourself.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:59 | 4367196 akak
akak's picture


Oversupply of gold?

Why of course!  Didn't you ever read the many "analyses" of Jon Nadler, until recently the official spokesman of Kitco, who almost daily tried to convince us that there are literally mountains of scrap gold just littering the landscape?  And that all the gold bought and held by Asian women in the form of jewelry is all merely "baubles" and frippery, not investment gold at all, and that they can and will sell it at the drop of a hat?

What are you, some kind of "radical goldbug extremist"?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:05 | 4367212 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

It's a questionable analysis. In 2013 gold production was clearly ramping up, in 2014 it's likely to contract. Guys just move the goal posts to whever they want them. 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:23 | 4367235 akak
akak's picture

Please tell me you realize I was only being sarcastic!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:30 | 4367249 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Remember, he's a little thick in the head when it comes to gold akak.  :)


Aloha from Maui pal!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:23 | 4367443 zhandax
zhandax's picture

He's a little thick in the head, period.  Cites a source you have to subscribe to see.  Fuck that, just disregard.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:38 | 4367459 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

I hope they can hold it together for another year or two. I'm not done stacking yet...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:40 | 4367275 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Please tell me you realize I was only being sarcastic!

Yes of course. I was just pointing out that these guys never make any fucking sense. And it's not that they're not smart or knowledgeable or even that I doubt their sincerity. Just don't get it...

Phil at the start of 2013: 

Well we’re pretty bullish still. We think that we’re going to see an average about $1775 in the first half, and for the full year we’re quite a bit above the consensus with our full year average annual price forecast in US dollar terms of $1847.

Phil at the start of 2014:

The metal has enjoyed a decent start to 2014, rising about 3 per cent. But Philip Klapwijk, of Precious Metals Insights, said this was in fact disappointing, given the lead-up to Chinese New Year, when purchases are usually strong.

“I would have thought gold would have gone to $1,350 this month,” Mr Klapwijk said.

He expects the price to fall below $1,180 – a level where it has previously enjoyed support – in the coming months.


Huh? Where was this brilliant insight last year, or did the Chinese skip new years 2013?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:55 | 4367396 akak
akak's picture

Is this the same Philip Klaptrap who has repeatedly and vehemently attacked GATA and denied that there is even the SLIGHTEST degree of official manipulation in the gold market?  That Philip Klaptrap?

Yeah, I thought so.

(But to his credit, he has not consistently called for gold to fall to approximately $500 LESS than its current price, whatever that current price happened to be, unlike Jon Nadler.)

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:41 | 4367463 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Hey Einstein, did you read the article above, or are you just trolling again? The market is rigged.

Fuck this guy Clapdick, and all the TA "experts". Why can't you connect the dots yet on this bullshit going on in gold?


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:23 | 4367236 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

All Buba has to do is toss a short for 300 tons of gold early one morning, wait for the price to crash and then order 300 tons of gold on the spot market.  It can then pick up the real gold on the spot market and later when the short is due for delivery tell the COMEX to go pick it up from the Fed. 


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:10 | 4367327 bobert
bobert's picture

Now that is funny!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:32 | 4367449 zhandax
zhandax's picture

You would need Dimon's lawyers to get away with it, but I like the way you think.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:05 | 4368260 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I hope that Buba is reading this...

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 05:05 | 4367998 -NaN-
-NaN-'s picture

Ya, oversupply.  Everyone knows that as mines shut down and mining companies lose investment capital (as is the case), you end up with an oversupply of gold.  /s

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:04 | 4368129 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

An OVERSUPPLY OF GOLD !! HA HA HA, HA. LOL, and LULZ CATZ !  That's a good one, alright. Boy it's a lucky thing we have these sober respectable financial newspapers like the Financial Times to keep us up to date on important news, like THE OVERSUPPLY OF GOLD. HA, HA, HA. OMFG, what a joke.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 10:19 | 4368200 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

Whatever the mainstream c*cksuckers recommend - do the opposite.  If they say it's going down it means they are hoping more will sell before price manipulation breaks down and true price discovery comes back.

My co-worker bought $160,000 in phyzz it only cost him about $1650 / ounce PLUS $3000 for delivery.  Call the 10 major banks ask a quote for $100,000 in phyzz delivered.  See what price they put it all at.  The stuff hasn't dropped below $1500.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:18 | 4367015 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:18 | 4367337 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

If you like your gods, you can keep `em. Not the gold, you did not mine that.

If you don`t like our money changers, time and again proofed in the successful dilution of currencies, we cannot keep you alive.

The true babelish is giving everyone the same language,
so no one will ever understand a thing.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:55 | 4367086 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

man, get it right....that is silver...bitchezzz.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:05 | 4366883 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Merkel: "Bernanke, is that my gold bar in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?"

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:53 | 4367181 negative rates
negative rates's picture

No, it's more than the wild wild west.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:31 | 4367451 BanksterSlayer
BanksterSlayer's picture

[and then Merkel proceeds to shove a broken ski pole up his arse]

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:08 | 4368268 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

At this point...


Merkel: "Janet Yellen, is that my Gold bar in your pants or are you wearing your strap on?"

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:05 | 4367413 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

We probably used German gold to pay China interest on the treasuries they hold.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 22:08 | 4367664 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"We probably used German gold to pay China interest on the treasuries they hold."


Give this man a cigar folks.

All the gold has gone to china for decades, and is CONTINUING to go to china. The last thing the criminals do, is to loot the govt just before the crash and attack. Happens to every country in the days leading up to their end. Too bad there is no more learning from the same CYCLES in history. Nazi America is being set up to lose the next world war.



Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:32 | 4366812 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Krugman and Bernyellen seem to have opened ZH accounts.


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:33 | 4367258 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Krugman and Bernyellen seem to have opened ZH accounts.

They can print.  But can they read?

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 01:21 | 4367914 CultiVader
CultiVader's picture

Gold Bitchezzzz...I feel better now

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:57 | 4366863 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

Ha ha, that idiot has only one button on his PC, a down arrow!

Wonder if he is from NSA?



Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:36 | 4367134 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

If he/she was NSA, you would have many more arrows.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:17 | 4366680 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

As I already mentioned, we aren't worried about gold the slightest bit over here. We are the world's favored armory, and you really think we won't get gold? Trust me, no one worried here 'bout that.  ;-)

edit: May I get downvoted because I didn't make myself clear. Let me get it this way to some anonymous idiots: We got a merchandise over here! We build stuff we sell. What do you do all day?!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:58 | 4367080 johny2
johny2's picture

the bargain is about to go out of the stock. and than the fireworks start.


as for the germany, it is a colony. it even has US troops stationed on its land. it may be rulling the smaller european countries for the rotchilds, but it is still going to be without gold when the gold becomes reserve currency again. and the neighbours are without gold to take this time too. 

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 04:11 | 4367979 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Now, that makes sense to me. Seems I did touch a tender point. I did not mean to say that all is well in germany (it is not). What I said (and meant) is that nobody cares! Germany is like living in lala-land, there really is no worry about the gold. I agree that this should be a public concern - but it isn't, and that was my whole point.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 20:27 | 4369552 johny2
johny2's picture

fair enough. and my post is just my opinion about germany and gold these days

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:02 | 4367093 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

If people/investors/nations don't learn from history, they deserve the consequences.


Sun, 01/26/2014 - 04:09 | 4367977 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

But if one learns from history - he's mostly doomed to helplessly stand by while all others repeat it ...

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:11 | 4368133 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Story of my life; it gets maddening sometimes. A very good point.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:01 | 4366726 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

You're right...but you are overusing...the three dot lounge thingie...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:31 | 4366811 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

i agree ...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:52 | 4367394 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



It's a style thing - like ee cummings never using capital letters. His . . . . makes his posts a unique look and immediately identifies the author, while burning it into the minds of readers.


The truth is that it's smart - if standing out from the crowd is your goal.


Why do so many resent creativity and originality?


Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:23 | 4368285 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Beause they are already grammatically challenged enough by the simple rules of writing. Creativity will exceed their ability to process information.


You must understand that they are not even educated enough to understand that "the three dot thingy" is defined as an ELLIPSIS.


(And I studied Physics and Mathematics so that I may teach English Grammar and Creative Writing??? I just love Public Schooling...NOT.)

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:59 | 4368343 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Well TT, I studied business, which included some 'effective writing classes', and took a year of journalism courses because I was writing for our college newspaper. I know 'the three dot lounge thingy' is called an ellipsis (and also called a suspension point) - the reference was a nod to my favorite ever columnist, Herb Caen of the SF Chronicle.

So there ...

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 18:52 | 4369284 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture



I am deficient because I did not study Journalism. You got me.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:23 | 4366922 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

Germany can publically ask the Fed to sell their gold on the open market and remit the proceeds.  Either they remit or they don't. If they do remit, Germany could buy gold on the open market with those funds.  If they don't remit ... why not?  It's not like 747s need to be scheduled along with heavy security. Just a few mouse clicks and it's done.  So there's really no good reason, no good reason at all, to not remit. The value at today's price is about $12 billion, not even a week's worth of QE.  They're 'good' for that kind of money, with the word 'good' used advisedly.  

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:34 | 4366941 markar
markar's picture

So who has 700 tons of gold to sell Germany at these prices? No one, I suspect

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:37 | 4367138 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Buba: "What is dis shit bars you sent us?"

Fed: "It's fine, relax, they're coin bars"

Buba: "What de fück iz coin bars? this is ein outrage"

Fed: "Just melt the fuckers down in a big pot and then freeze them like a Popsicle"

Buba: "This is ein outrage, we want 9999 gold"

Fed: "Too bad fellas, 9999? That's a laugh"

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:05 | 4366945 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

I believe they asked for their gold, not a Fed remittance. If they were OK with a remittance, they would have asked for that.

Getting the physical gold is the whole point of this charade.


Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:37 | 4368310 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

No it is not the point of the charade.


Everybody knows, unless they are a fucking brain dead zombie whom has a Thirty Second Attention Span, that THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT and The Federal Reserve Bank DOES NOT HAVE THE GOLD.


You know that. I know that. Everybody commenting here knows that. You can bet BUBA knows that.


The Brain Dead, Stupified, Zombie, American Public DOES NOT KNOW THAT.


This is an OVERT POLITICAL ATTACK on US Dollar Hegemony and US World Reserve Currency status.


Merkel is really pissed off about the NSA SPYING. Revenge is a bitch and you do not scorn a woman...especially a mean Bull Dyke. She will put on her Strap On and REAM YOUR ASS.


(Of course the problem is that Bathhouse Barry will enjoy that..)

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:24 | 4368386 HamFistedIdiot
HamFistedIdiot's picture

And the point of the crude sexual references is??

The only thing meaningful about such personal red bait items is their use as "control files", that is, making someone do something they don't want to do under threat of exposure. That is why you don't want politicos subject to blackmail. Either bring it all out into the open, or cast them out of office because they can no longer be trusted to serve the public interest.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 18:57 | 4369305 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I have no clue about just what the NSA has uncovered about Merkel. But I am certain that she is pretty damned pissed off.


If you trust ANY political figure to serve the public interest then you are naiive.


As for Bathhouse Barry's exploits they are as PUBLIC as they will get. It is all over the Internet and YouTube.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:25 | 4367033 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Exactly!!! That is the value now! What will be when it is discovered the gold is gone, pledged or stolen? $12 billion wouldn't touch it.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:49 | 4368324 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Well currently Gold is trading for $1260 per Troy Ounce.


We have known that the Gold is gone for about a year now. Due to the manipulation of the paper Markets Gold was at $1750 when the story broke and has steeply declined since.


300 Tons is just a small fraction of the 179,000 Tons of Gold in existence.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:12 | 4367111 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Germany can publically ask the Fed to sell their gold

You miss the point, we already have.

Love and kisses,


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:30 | 4367252 jaxville
jaxville's picture

This article (and a few ZH's) is missing a very important point. That is that Germany made swap arrngements with the Fed/ESF back in the 90s which resulted in Bundesbank gold being leased into the market. It can only be returned as fast as the loans come due and respective bullion banks repay the gold loans. The Bundesbank did not tell the German people about that nor do they want them to find out about it. The only reason they are repatriating some gold is because of public pressure. The Bundesbank is complicit is suppressing gold prices at the expense of the German peoples gold savings. They may have lost the majority of German gold as it is becoming increasingly untenable for the bullion banks to repay those gold loans.

  The Bundesbank is every bit as much as a "scum run" organization as the Fed.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 20:37 | 4367540 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Very interesting and I believe you. These things always end with all the bad guys blaming each other right before it collapses.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 22:09 | 4367665 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Very true. I suspect the Germans trust us. We're their friends,remember we have that treaty with them that says we won't spy on each other.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 10:03 | 4368182 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I'm waiting for the announcement that the Fed is going to settle the German gold problem by cash settlement for the entire amount.
Bild should have a field day with that.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:13 | 4368136 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:43 | 4367282 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

I would say that there is a common understanding between the big boys that any gold buying by a central bank is considered an act of war against US. There will be a time when the US army will be all around the world bringing democracy and freedom, for a paltry contribution in resources - but it will be pretty thin and many others will start balking back.


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:02 | 4367404 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



Think it over - the purpose of holding physical gold is to hedge against the inevitable day when the fiat ponzi falls apart.


Why would anyone in their right mind take fiat at fire-sale manipulated prices when you know that when the ponzi collapses the gold is going to skyrocket?


In fact, that "give them fiat if you can't produce the gold" is the biggest scam out there. Who wants fiat to hedge against fiat???


That's why they don't want a remittence. The fiat will be inflated into non-value, and you can't relace what they owe you in gold with the fiat they give you.


And that's why I don't a remittence either. You keep the paper; give me my gold.


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 22:57 | 4367726 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

I understand.  I also said that "with the proceeds Germany can buy gold on the open market," whose price might even have been suppressed as a result of the "sales" (real or paper).  So Germany gets at least the same quantity of gold back, and the Fed has to cough up the funds if not the gold (to actually sell).  But, I guess if the Bundesbank is actually complicit, they wouldn't seek such a deal for the same reason the Fed wouldn't.  My point is only that if "logistical difficulties" hamper the gold transfer, there is another way Germany could get it's owned quantity of gold back in a hurry, without such logistical concerns.  Germany could force the Fed's hand by doing this.  (If it wanted to.)  

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:39 | 4366663 midtowng
midtowng's picture

They are digging up gold all the time. If Germany can wait long enough the Fed can replace the gold.

The problem is that Asia is buying up all that damn gold before it even gets to market!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:01 | 4366724 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

and...China is buying the mines, properties, and mining companies.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:56 | 4366860 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

National security?

I guess the question becomes ... who's national security comes first?

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 10:15 | 4368193 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

The reality is phyzz is really about $1600 a ounce.  If anyone does not believe so call your local bank and get a quote for $100,000 of it.  My coworker bought $160,000 in gold and he had to pay about $1600 / ounce AND the bank insisted on a $3000 / delivery charge.


The true price of physical should be the aggregate result of calling the 10 major banks asking for $100,000 of it DELIVERED, and the average of the quotes. 

People should file a lawsuit against the fed for price fixing.  Of course what difference does it make.  They'll only pay with fiat digits it wouldn't matter if you sued for a Trillion.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:07 | 4368353 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

People should file a lawsuit against the fed for price fixing.  Of course what difference does it make.  They'll only pay with fiat digits it wouldn't matter if you sued for a Trillion.


Well a lawsuit was filed back in 1999 for Anti Trust Price Fixing against the FED by GATA.


It was actually set to go to trial. All of the evidence was stored at World Trade Center Building #7 And then on 9/11/2001 Building #7 collapsed and it was not even struck by an aircraft...Imagine that...


No. They won't pay. They will just kill a few thousand people here, and then use it as an excuse to bomb brown people in the Middle this time.


There is, after all, a lot of Al Qaeda presence in Syria. That is an undisputed fact.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:26 | 4366630 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

In Illinois it may become illegal to sell something you legally DO own.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:34 | 4366653 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Speaking of blue states with ridiculous laws, due to California's new requirement that gun manufacturers put a mechanism in the gun that stamps a serial number on the bullets it fires, Smith & Wesson will no longer sell here. 

What's funny about this is if you ask any ballistics expert, he will tell you that each and every firearm leaves its own unique "fingerprint" on the bullet, so the stamping mechanism isn't even necessary, and this is just blatant government abuse.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:41 | 4366666 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

How does this work anyway? You fire a bullet but first it's stamped very VERY quickly? ;-)

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:50 | 4366696 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I believe the way it works is when a round is chambered it's stamped.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:36 | 4366821 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

stamp this bitchez !

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:12 | 4367002 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Gonna put the serial number on baseball bats too? I mean, so when you whack the pols it leaves the number on their forehead? 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 20:15 | 4367505 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

well, when you transfer money to GS, they have a transaction number so they can trace the theft.
Doesn't seem to stop the theft, though, does it?

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 02:47 | 4367959 perchprism
perchprism's picture



No, no--it leaves a nice embossed imprint:  " No. 9 Louisville Slugger".

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:16 | 4368138 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Oh. you're cracking me up. Guns don't kill people ! Politicians do !.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:32 | 4367370 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Nay!  The firing pin has micro engraving on it, aint no way to stamp the actual bullet.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 21:17 | 4367600 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I believe the way it works is when a round is chambered it's stamped.


No. From what I understand, when the round is fired, the brass is hammered back into a stamp by the firing pin and thus is marked.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:18 | 4368142 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yes, that's right. it's hard to believe tho. How the fuck can anybody be that stupid? Can these fuckers even tie their own shoes.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:55 | 4366706 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Firing pin imprints a micro stamp on the casing, ejected at scene of crime can be traced back to you.  Like every stupid government program easy way around that, use a  revolver or easier yet 750 grit paper meet mr. firing pin..

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:58 | 4366720 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

first, paper patch your bullets before you seat them so their is no rifling for identification.

second. never ever ever never leave your brass anywhere, including the range.



Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:08 | 4366747 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Always have an extra barrel and firing pin for your favored weapon. Pay cash. Always have a few bullets that are not even close to the case lot numbers and brands you always store.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:25 | 4366791 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

i have three of my favorite handguns, mix and match bitchez.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:16 | 4367116 sandblaster
sandblaster's picture

Blackpowder revolver my Negro's, no ffuss and no muss

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 21:19 | 4367602 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

My very first pistol was a cap and ball Colt
Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow
Loads a mite slow and i soon found out
It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:54 | 4366708 new game
new game's picture

side door sale stopping bullshit. next up retna eye read when looking down the sights.

or chipped gun or finger print security on grip to allow shooting. endless bullshit to basicallydiscontinue firearm sales.

sad the law forced ruger and smith to abort cali, or maybe that is good...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:00 | 4366869 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

You just need the serial number imprinted on the firing bolt/pin(?)

Nothing a file can't take care of.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 15:40 | 4367066 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

At a micro-level, it could be anywhere in the chamber, as well, and you'd never be able to see it.


What a great way to establish a registry.

Trip to the local range, pick up some scattered brass.....


But why bother, the NSA knows everything you buy on credit card anyway.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:57 | 4366713 The Wisp
The Wisp's picture

The way i read it it stamps the casing the brass. since autos chuck them out  and the bad guys  don't stop to pick it up

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:02 | 4366725 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

That is pretty boneheaded. You are right about ballistics. Don't the gun manufacturers fire the weapon to test it? Why don't they just keep a record of that pattern to go with the gun registration? I know, I know, stop giving them ideas.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:11 | 4366755 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Buy extra barrels and firing pins while you can.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 18:01 | 4367310 August
August's picture

FWIW the marks left on a fired bullet by Glock, or other, "polygonal" rifling cannot be reliably matched (personal communication from Seattle's Chief Medical Examiner); this assumes that the defendant has hired a sharp defense attorney who knows his rules of evidence, and just a bit about firearms.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:35 | 4366820 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

for your long range rifles, you should buy the custom barrel 34 inch fluted and broach cut.  it makes a difference. 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:05 | 4366734 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I haven't read about the Cali law, but the unique markings left by the lands and grooves change over time if enough rounds are fired.  You can speed up the process with a file or by simply recrowning the firearm.  Or you can use a barrel with polygonal rifling, which doesn't leave all that many unique markings. 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:28 | 4366802 new game
new game's picture

ruger and smith will still sell non semi-auto guns.

that in itself tells how bs it is.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:36 | 4366823 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

el vaque,  i'm to old to be much of a shooter anymore, but i'll spot for you anytime.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 20:56 | 4367569 August
August's picture

Please tell the court, Mr.Defendant, just how regularly you file the barrels of your pistols.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 02:52 | 4367961 perchprism
perchprism's picture


How about a .38 Special fired from a .357?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:53 | 4366854 Ass. Manager
Ass. Manager's picture

Glad I moved out of California!

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 19:00 | 4367401 tradebot
tradebot's picture

Good point.  That's the question isn't it, since so few actually own'll be a cinch to take yours. No mass histeria, just jealous have nots laughing away. 

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 22:57 | 4367721 Cookie
Cookie's picture

4 years ago ZH would have been first to this story, these days it is 24 hours behind the bloggers pack

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 01:08 | 4367891 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"It is perfectly legal to sell things that you don't have.   cough..."

It's perfectly legal to sell a bet on the future price of gold.  That's what  Comex is now.  A casino where people bet on the future price of gold.

It stopped being a commodity exchange when the commodity doesn't have to be delivered.

And it's a unique type of casino where dealers make a commision on each bet placed.  The "vig" in bookie language.

And the "spot price" is simply the "odds" following the trend of betting, just like a bookie tells you what the "odds" are.  It has nothing to do with the price of real gold.

People put too much faith in tradition.  Comex USED TO BE a commodity exchange, and people still think it is.

But contract fine print gets changed quietly, nobody noticing, and it's no longer a commodity exchange, it's a casino now. 

Just like banks are no longer banks. They're investment houses now, thanks to subtle changes in fine print on a deposit account application. 

When you deposit money, it becomes their money to invest however they want.  You are an unsecured investor, and you have a limited right to "cash out" some or all of your investment.

Is it illegal? Can regulators stop it?  No and no, because you agreed to it when you signed the account application.

You just thought it was a checking account because it used to be checking account before.  

See, relying on tradition, what things used to be.  It still looks like a bank, it still has the same bank name. The account application still says checking account.

But it's not a bank anymore, and it's not a checking account anymore. It's an investment house now, and the account is an investor account with limited right of cashing out.


Sun, 01/26/2014 - 03:47 | 4367972 MEAN BUSINESS


millivanilli said It is perfectly legal to sell things that you don't have.   cough...

you DO have arrows so you can sell them. Disruptive down arrow problem solved! Give users some greenies and junkers/day free. 

1 satoshi/ greeny? 2 satoshis/ junked ya?


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:05 | 4366577 takeaction
takeaction's picture

Precious Metals on Sale here too. Delivered FREE only $185?  Wow.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:30 | 4366808 superflex
superflex's picture

Than Wolf steel cased stuff has feed issues in some AR's, and their prices suck.  Hence, your post getting junked.

Try Palmetto State Armory.

420 rounds of Federal 55 grain is only $170.  150 rounds of Federal 62 grain are $60.

The Prvi Partizan 556 is also excellent cheap ammo

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:35 | 4366655 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Interest rates are manipulated. Muni bonds are manipulated. Pretty much everything is manipulated EXCEPT for precious metals. At least according to the agencies who've investigated.

Why would they "find" PM's be the ONLY thing on the planet not being manipulated? Could it be because the manipulation is so bad that they have to continue playing the game?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:37 | 4366662 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

This is a lot of Ass covering, which may mean the paper manipulation game is over.

Knowing how shallow FT is, they may be thinking it is coming monday morning.

Throw it out, just in case, then back to business as usual.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:04 | 4366735 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Is FT owned by the Roth's? There may be a rouse there! But maybe you are right they did the math and the writing is on the wall.   

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:07 | 4366738 unununium
unununium's picture

You oughta have a newsletter.  One of these days you're gonna be right


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:39 | 4366668 sandiegoman
sandiegoman's picture

The question is how much phyzz to hold and if you don't hold it in the banking system there is theft risk. No easy answers. Picking up more silver on Monday. This looks like a corner has been turned and the world is waking up to what Tyler(s) have been pointing out for years.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:03 | 4366729 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You need to back your gold and silver with brass and lead.  Back the brass and lead with edged steel.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:55 | 4366859 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

Yep. Edged 6150 steel sword. Everyone should have at least one of these weapons:

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 06:35 | 4368043 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

That is 50 CrV 4, not the best material for swords. I'd rather use something like 56 Si 7 or a cementation steel like 16 CrMo 5 or 21 CrMo 5. You could also use simple E-360 construction steel and gas nitride the blade edge. But if that all fails - 50 CrV 4 will do reasonably.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:03 | 4367097 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Where in the hell is Boris?? Did he go to the Ukraine and get caught up in the protesting?

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 21:13 | 4367591 mt paul
mt paul's picture

saw him down the club last night

a couple of the naughty girls were working him over

must have got his Chernobyl disability check

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:46 | 4367290 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

The large amount of gold is needed to build a time machine.  I thought everyone knew this. 

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 12:57 | 4368441 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Once she gets a gander at my BitCoin you're gonna be out a luck bud.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:57 | 4366559 Tinky
Tinky's picture

On behalf of LawsofPhysics...

Tick-tock motherfuckers.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:37 | 4366659 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Classic. :-)

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:21 | 4366921 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

I was waiting for that...

This time it really feels like it could be the time.  They have run out of rabbits.  ZIRP was the last bunny in their bag o' tricks IMHO.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 16:26 | 4367123 AL_SWEARENGEN

I agree.  Especially that 'this' time its gone mainstream.  Think about that.  Even the cftc hearings on position limits in pm's was nothing compared to now.  Germany PUBLICLY can't get their Gold back?? BaFin!!  Glen friggin Beck talking about Rehypothecation, now the FT reporting on it??  Something crazy's about to happen.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 17:53 | 4367304 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Just when I think things are about to change, all that changes is my timeframe.  The manipulators have a great deal of talent on their side, as well as a great deal of "non-real" money that for the time being, acts just like real money.


Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:28 | 4368147 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It's a bit shocking, really, the goiod old FT blathering on like that. In merry old whatsit they call that "telling tales out of school". Loose lips sink ships you know.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 14:33 | 4366942 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Might I add...


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 11:57 | 4366565 VD
VD's picture

and when gold breakz out 'catastrophically' (for Fed, CB's, banks et al.), the inverse will happen to BTC...and i am big fan of BTC but...

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:10 | 4366592 CH1
CH1's picture

More happy imaginings of Bitcoin being hurt.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:42 | 4366676 VD
VD's picture

unhappy fundamentalz based view: china is greatest fast bubble making market and what % of BTC takes place there¿¿¿ anyhow, will be exceedingly happy when gold crosses 2k/oz-->5k/oz

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:07 | 4366741 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I think most people here who see bitcoin in an unfavorable light don't wish it to be bad but if it is then the sooner the better.  Really, we want the system to fail just as much as the bitcoiners do but we have some very sneaking suspicions about bitcoin and tech in general.  We don't want you hurt but we do think you are going to get hurt.  If it is going to burn you we'd all be better off if it happens before you can bet the farm on it.


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 13:18 | 4366776 CH1
CH1's picture

Well, a reasonable statement. Appreciated.

Both BTC and gold are good, IMO.

If you have a "sneaking suspicion" on BTC, I'd suggest that you learn more about it. But, that's just my sugestion. Honest disagreements don't particularly bother me.


Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:18 | 4366611 jomama
jomama's picture

i have a confession to make.

i don't give a single fuck about bitcoin.

Sat, 01/25/2014 - 12:29 | 4366637 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

You heretic you!

You'll be burned at the stake!!!!!


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