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Bundesbank's Stunner To Broke Eurozone Nations: First "Bail In" Your Rich Citizens
In what is sure to be met with cries of derision across the European Union, in line with what the IMF had previously recommended (and we had previously warned as inevitable), the Bundesbank said on Monday that countries about to go bankrupt should draw on the private wealth of their citizens through a one-off capital levy before asking other states for help. As Reuters reports, the Bundesbank states, "(A capital levy) corresponds to the principle of national responsibility, according to which tax payers are responsible for their government's obligations before solidarity of other states is required." However, they note that they will not support an implementation of a recurrent wealth tax in Germany, saying it would harm growth. We await the refutation (or Draghi's jawbone solution to this line in the sand.)
Germany's Bundesbank said on Monday that countries about to go bankrupt should draw on the private wealth of their citizens through a one-off capital levy before asking other states for help.
The Bundesbank's tough stance comes after years of euro zone crisis that saw five government bailouts. There have also bond market interventions by the European Central Bank in, for example, Italy where households' average net wealth is higher than in Germany.
"(A capital levy) corresponds to the principle of national responsibility, according to which tax payers are responsible for their government's obligations before solidarity of other states is required," the Bundesbank said in its monthly report.
It warned that such a levy carried significant risks and its implementation would not be easy, adding it should only be considered in absolute exceptional cases, for example to avert a looming sovereign insolvency.
...
The German Institute for Economic Research calculated in 2012 that in Germany a 10-percent levy on a tax base derived from a personal allowance of 250,000 euros would add up to around 230 billion euros. It did not give a figure for crisis countries due to lack of sufficient data.
Greece has been granted bailout funds of 240 billion euros from the euro area, its national central banks and IMF to protect it from a chaotic default and possible exit from the euro zone. Not all funds have been paid out yet.
In Germany, however, the Bundesbank said it would not support an implementation of a recurrent wealth tax, saying it would harm growth.
...
"It is not the purpose of European monetary policy to ensure solvency of national banking systems or governments and it cannot replace necessary economic adjustments or bank balance sheet clean ups," the Bundesbank said.
In considering some of the potential measures likely to be required, the reader may be struck by the essential problem facing politicians: there may be only painful ways out of the crisis.
...
There is one thing we would like to bring to our readers' attention because we are confident, that one way or another, sooner or later, it will be implemented. Namely a one-time wealth tax: in other words, instead of stealth inflation, the government will be forced to proceed with over transfer of wealth. According to BCG, the amount of developed world debt between household, corporate and government that needs to be eliminated is just over $21 trillion. Which unfortunately means that there is an equity shortfall that will have to be funded with incremental cash which will have to come from somewhere. That somewhere is tax of the middle and upper classes, which are in possession of $74 trillion in financial assets, which in turn will have to be taxed at a blended rate of 28.7%.
The programs BCG (and the Bundesbank) described would be drastic. They would not be popular, and they would require broad political coordinate and leadership – something that politicians have replaced up til now with playing for time, in spite of a deteriorating outlook. Acknowledgment of the facts may be the biggest hurdle. Politicians and central bankers still do not agree on the full scale of the crisis and are therefore placing too much hope on easy solutions. We need to understand that balance sheet recessions are very different from normal recessions. The longer the politicians and bankers wait, the more necessary will be the response outlined in this paper. Unfortunately, reaching consensus on such tough action might requiring an environment last seen in the 1930s
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I'm sorry I din't quite get your point. Are you implying there will be a bank run?
when bankruns start, i'll go deposit few hundreds on my account just to withdraw it couple of times at the most public places while making a scene. have to set an example to get things rolling. and i fucking love panic.
B..b..b..ba...ba...ba...BANKROBBERY!
There FIFY
And here I thought this was a whole page of interesting comments...BANKRUN indeed, bitches.
Sometimes I just sit here and watch the Matrix code as it flashes by. Blonde, brunette, redhead.
Oh wait, there goes Warren Buffett swimming naked again.
i have some yoga excercises you can do
And I thought that I was the only person to see that code in the matrix...
Toga, Toga, Toga, Toga....
Over $100k in a bank account is rich? Those are just the average prudent savers. I propose if you attended Davos you are subject to an immediate 50% wealth tax.
As part of the initiation fee for Davos, you got a forever poor card. This removes you from any Bail-in list for the rest of your life.
No, but confiscating 25k from 1 million citizens can make YOU rich.
Homer, do math much? 25,000x1,000,000 = 25B, chump change. Try 1B from from 25,000. Now you are talking real change 25T.....
The money will be remitted to the TBTF banks immediately after it is collected. Odious debt.
... 'cos everyone knows that the way to stimulate an economy is to steal all the money from the consumers and producers and give it to the banksters and make everyone else borrow it back again ...
it's almost as if...they're evil
I guess this means that someone doesn't think the current allocation of money is consistent with the most productive way to distribute resources. (It was difficult to type that sentence and keep a straight face.)
Or maybe we are running out of resources and they want us not to notice through inflation. If we're running out of resources then why do we have to work so hard for less? Can't we just work less hours for less?
Oh yeah, I forgot. The banksters still need feeding.
Germany needs to be worried about getting their gold back not not confiscation of constituants wealth.
"Germany needs to be worried [...]" Right! Germans should be. But in fact nobody is. (At least nobody of any importance). Believe me! I live here. ;-)
It isn't the German people's gold anyway. That gold will belong to the central bank in reality. And if it is used in anyway it will be to benefit out benevolent overlords, not the average German serf
Germany is worried that it will have to continue bailing the EU out. That is the concern.
con fidence is all we need your leaders have a plan to stop the boat from sinking we will run it a ground
There has to be a tipping point sooner or later.CJHames: ++++++++++++++++++++++++
That's exactly it. They can steal as much as they like. All it does is buy a few hours. And then they will demand to do it all again.
I like to say, "If you're dumb enough to buy something, then someone else will be dumb enough to sell it to you."
Ignore "money", especially paper or digital, it isn't real and is easily manipulated by men. Life is much simplier than that. Specifically, in order to actually do or create anything of real value, you need energy and resources, period.
That which cannot be sustained, won't be, regardless of how "clever" any monetary or government policies being put in place.
The laws of Nature and physics simply don't give a shit, and at they end of the day, these are the only laws that matter.
The monetary shenanigans is the way to hide the fact there is a lack of energy and resources and a method for the few to get a bigger bite of the pie. If you told people, "No matter what you do, you the world only has x kJ available for you" then they may not work so hard.
It will be a long time before the World reaches zero entropy.
Until then, there is always more wealth for the Banksters to steal.
So the top 1% have already moved their money out now, so time to go public properly then? Thieving bastards
KBC alone already moved over a trillion:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=...
BAILINS FOR BONUSES!!!
SOON TO BE A T-SHIRT SLOGAN!!
Armed robber: "Relax. It's not a hold-up. It's a bail-in."
So... Did we check the source and make sure the translation is correct? Don't want another HSBC incident.
The translation is correct. I checked "Handelsblatt", which states that the monthly report of Bundesbank, made public today in Frankfurt, says so. (And contrary to my english - my german is excellent).
Du schreibst Englisch mehr fliessend als ich schreibe Deutsch.
Well that should help gold some....that sort of talk will have people sewing gold into their clothes.
Everyone is jawboning means shit is about to break again and in a big way between the way everyone is playing shoot the messenger over Gordon Chang's article in Forbes but ignoring the obvious question who told Citibank to put that up in the first place to this. Sounds like the haves are telling the have nots to go kiss off with their hands out bail me out attitude to all monetary shenanigans.
I wonder if this has to do with Greece again for the Germans to be jawboning or does it mean one of the other PIIGS is on the verge.
Bail-ins of anyone with an account containing over E100,000 are a sure thing now in the Eurozone, and wider EU; they trailed it with Cyprus. Increased income tax is next up. Followed by less public spending. Normally, the latter would be a good thing. But not when it's accompanied by the two former measures. These politician scumfucks are getting increasingly desperate to save their own skins, and they will do anything to preserve the status quo. Which means stealing more money from their citizens. And the US will follow. As surely as night follows day. So don't you Americans think you're going to escape this insanity, and be able to watch, amused, from afar, at the primitive socialist idiots of Europe. In fact, it will hit you even harder. The good thing about all this is, it will come to an end - the 'People' will see to it that it does. And sooner, rather than later.
Watch for increased rioting, civil war, cyber war, imprisonments - the lot.
The clown show is even worse here since it is going full retard Soviet Marxism here and there is nowhere to hide. Over there some EU nations will survive the implosion and Marxism infestation.
The implosion has to happen along with the fighting to clean out the last vestiges of the infestation before the healing can begin. It is has gone too far to end any other way if things are going to get better.
Indeed
The next country that bails in will set a ball rolling that willnot be stoped.
Unless they do all countries in Euro at once there will be catastrophic consequences beyond comprehension.
Indeed. It's taking some time, but I feel the EU will not be around - cetainly not in its current form - by the end of this decade/start of next.
The resolve of these assholes in Brussels is astonishing. But let's all remember that an animal is at its most dangerous when cornered. That's what we're ostensibly dealing with here.
The European elections in May will be very interesting...but at what point in the future will the people of Europe decide that elections are a waste of time, and take matters into their own hands, physically?
Don't think it can't happen. The last 65 years of peace are a blip on 2000 years of warfare among Europeans. Expect normal service to be resumed at some point...
People are just plain stupid. They give their money to the banks without being paid , and the banks are gambling away their currency. They are losing buying power as the central banks inflate it away. Now the banks are looking at outright theft, and yet the iSheeple keep their currency in the system. Amazing.
All I gotta do is find a "customer" ( or boss as boss = special type of customer ) that will pay me cash. Actually, I'll have to find several of those customers.
I have actually been to a business that did not accept cash. Card only. I didn't know they were allowed to refuse legal tender. I haven't been there since. Thankfully they have better competitors. I have bought from another business that accepts cash but strongly prefers internet banking. I tried to warn both of them. I really did. But what would I know? I don't have a business ...
Its a real problem for businesses.
Most clients want the convenience of plastic or internet banking.
Getting personal money out of the system is much easier than biz monies.
I'm working on it myself, but there are no easy answers.
One longish term contract I'm insisting in payment in gold.
They think they are getting a bargain, we shall see who is right.
I would imagine with that setup, it most likely will be a win-win.
It warned that such a levy carried significant risks and its implementation would not be easy, adding it should only be considered in absolute exceptional cases,
exceptional is that a swipe at the US...........for not getting thier gold back!
the public sector needs to get their step raises and the COLA raises......stop your effin whinning
28.7% blended?
Un-Fucking-Believable.
These insane fuckers want shot, this is 'Odious Debt', it has fuck all to do with us lot.
"I agree with the statement from Germany. Long overdue."
and do people think they will stop at one bite, when that doesn't work they will do another and another bite out of peoples savings.
Once they establish the principle that your money can be taken to pay off other peoples debts directly they will do it for more and more thngs...
To clarify, I think Germany is sick of bailing others out.
European Parliament elections will be held in May, from 22nd to 25th. Local elections in Bavaria on March 16th. CDU/CSU will want to look extremely avaricious with "the taxpayers money" - they need it all for themselves. ;-)
Spread your money between banks, and assets
As if .gov and .fed can't add?
We know their computers have a PRNT key, I'm pretty sure they have an ADD (+) key, also.
Bitcoin, bitchez.
or just cut the size of your bloated fucking goobermint
fucking socialists fight it out until death - bunch of fucking untrained animals
Queue Pornstar coming in and talking about how Bitcoin can save the savers. Too bad for him, he will now see how "secure" Bitcoin truly is when a government needs funds and will openly begin robbing people. Good luck moving that wallet out.
Or just default and avoid the revolution.
Picking societies winners and losers is more fun
+1 because... we have creditors who think these debt levels can actually be serviced with no risk to themselves... a sovereign nation with any spine at all under these debt service loads would simply say 'tough shit', default, and move on... if they're really smart they would use all that debt/credit to arm themselves to the teeth and then tell the bank conglomerates to come and take it if they want any money... oh, right, that's the US model lol... come and collect if you can, bitchez
"Only a madman, or a wilful liar, could think that I, or anyone else, could have the intention to break up what we ourselves have built up over the years!" Adolf Hitler, Reichsparteitag 1934
We intend to break apart the Others.
Hey now, this kind of talk and eventual action will only lead to more 'far-right-ism' in Europe.. People like Nigel Farange or Marine Le Pen are DANGEROUS!!! Will someone think of the poor people! Quick, someone equate these people to Nazi-ism.. and not to our own actions!
/Political Rant
Nazis were national socialists. They have nothing to do with the right. They are the left.
Yes I know this.. I was sarcastically mocking what clueless Europeans and defenders of parasitic socialism/reverse wealth-transfer monetary policy. These corporatists, bought & paid for politicians, and other benefactos would pressure the media to then blame all of Europe's monetary/fiscal problems on people that don't think like them.
WTF people, I was being sarcastic. I guess I forgot to put that up
This is the prefered method for stealing the wealth of the upper class by the .01%. Since they have most of their wealth in foundations (and foundations will be excluded, bet on it) the only ones effected will be the rich whom are not "connected". The poor 70% will support it and cheer them on.
Probably look for a currency change as well, to keep people from hiding in cash. Gold? Confiscated if they can convince you. Asset sales will take huge discounts and allow all those banks and foundations to have a field day.
Or, we can say no and defend our assets with the barrel of a gun. Suggest someone come up with an emp shell and grenades for the robot soldiers.
I'm sure the politicians will not exempt themselves (specifically their ill gotten gains) from the bail in requirements? <sarc>
Responsibility? Are you serious?
Politicians: Cut spending by 90% or more.
Every single article about this issue never mentions the reduction of borrowing and spending. Which means, they presume that all human beings are slaves to the 0.01% who pull the strings. There can be NO other way for these kinds of proposals to be floated, except to assume that a few drunken-sailor predators-that-be in each country can spend unlimited sums, then simply steal from whoever they wish to pay the bills.
That is slavery. Actually, that is worse than slavery.
For human beings to read crap like this without heading for the gun cabinet proves that humans are finished - they are too stupid to survive.
First common sense answer I read in a long time. Cutting spending is such an obvious solution, we all do it when times are tough, but the people who lord it over us do not posess common sense nor do they have the stomach to do what is necessary.
Well, you have to understand the level of entitlement spending and what it buys the elite. They can no longer pretend they have a functioning economy so they are not concerning themselves with any policies that are directed towards the real economy and if they cut entitlement spending they immediately have civil unrest. There is no avoiding what is coming because as entitlements get larger and the printing gets larger, the money becomes worth less and eventually the funds paid out in entitlements don't do the job of keeping the peace. This is what DHS, et al, are preparing for, widespread civil unrest due to paper currency going bad. The resources running low is just icing on the cake when this whole thing blows. I'd say we are looking at tens of millions of deaths in the U.S. alone unless they have a plan B which no one has considered, which works. I've been reading pretty smart folks spit ballling this scenario for years now and haven't read any work around that seems plausible. Perhaps if there really is alien technology that can be rolled out quickly like zero point energy, that may work. I wouldn't be placing any bets on alien technology though, just a for instance. The best one can hope for is that they can hunker down long enough for the wave to roll over them without running out of resources or being robbed. People are pretty resilient and there will be pockets of folks doing OK provided they can defend what is theirs and they are willing to work hard as a group.
I would be interested to learn who you are reading re: scenarios.
re For human beings to read crap like this without heading for the gun cabinet...
Or, at the very least, the drinks cabinet...
The sooner we act the more effective we will be. If we wait any longer we'll be restricted from traveling. And if you need to transport your assets or preps from state to state, you'll run the risk of detection and confiscation at the future DHS inspection stations.
I'm LOL'in!
Bitcoin , Bit-chez
Todays ‘WTF!!! moment’ as far as I am concerned because ‘The bullet finaly has been shot through the church’ as we say here in Brinker boyz low lands or ‘The die is cast’
Fa-fa-fa-fire!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn15BUFBvu8
Also see: BIS lays out plan for how to handle bank failures - Bail-in Plan Included!!! http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=246677.0
"According to BCG, the amount of developed world debt between household, corporate and government that needs to be eliminated is just over $21 trillion"
Strangely enough this corresponds to the estimated $20 to $30 trillion in tax havens.
Problem solved or are those accounts exempt?
So can the smart ass who down voted my comment please explain how $21 trillion will otherwise be eliminated?
Tell the banksters to go pound salt and have a debt jubilee, you have no claim to your fellows labor or wealth. In the times coming ahead you will do well to remember that as much more will be asked of you for the benefit of others who do nothing at all. You won't like it much...
Please explain how over $20 trillion in tax havens constitutes my fellow's labour.
The money there does, money is capital as well as the labor that produced it. A one off will do nothing but let the game of insolvency proceed a little while longer. You serve your masters well sowing envy and hatred the way you do.
I am typing on an Ipad and sometimes my finger slips and I misspell a word, but your syntax/grammar makes it hard for me to reply fully but here goes....
The labour that produced a lot of that capital is so remote to the owners of that capital today that it makes your argument refundant. In other words do you honestly believe that it is the labour of the 1% rather than the labour of the bottom 80% that builds up that capital?
Did you ever ask yourself why that money is in tax havens to begin with? I doubt it.
Did you ever ask yourself how much of that money has been siphoned out of China and other places using transfer pricing schemes to drain the profit generated by workers working 80 hour weeks?
There is no envy or hatred being sown. Just an observation that the world is over indebted and there is no way out while the overwhelming percentage of income and income gains continue to accrue to a very small percentage.
So uh you want to just "take" it all? For the greater good and all that crap I suppose. Just wondering how far up your posterior you've managed to get your head, in ANY "ism" an elite oligarchy RULES at the expense of the general population, even socialism. It is a LIE just like HOPE.
Wake up dear man(woman). We are talking about a one off reset which presumably will also allow interest rates to return to market levels and thus give value to deposits. At the current rate of sub 1% in the USA for some ten years they have already fleeced the mddle and lower classes by at least 50%. it was a haurcut by stealth. By allowing interest rates to rise it will also bring property values down to earth and allow younger people to buy more easily and pensioners to be able to survive off their interest. It will also stop malinvestment.
In the end there will be some pain for all, but when it is a fact that the top 1% have been reaping at least 90% of all income increases in the economy don't you think the pendulum has swung too far?
Hey Winston are you still there or are you hibernating again somewhere up your posterior. LOL.
The mentality of hoarding amongst the 1% dwells in everyone. I got involved in a charitable trust some time ago where the other directors were hell bent on making minimal donations so that they could grow the trust's funds. It took many arguments, much convincing and a few threats of shaming them in order to get them to give a decent percentage each year. The funny thing is they now look forward to the annual distribution.
Comrades! Be strong! And give up your money for common good!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100185609/you-thought-the...
http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2013/38/9b57dcb29547a8be91453...
This is some scary shit. It's like Cyprus was a test and everyone failed.
How can everyone with their wealth tied up in assets suddenly come up with 30% of their asset's value in cash in order to pay this hypothetical tax? Are 100 million Americans going to put 30% of their assets up for sale on the same day? When everyone is trying to sell assets, who would be the buyers? Will untold millions rush to the banks for a 30% equity loans on whatever equity is available? What happens to valuations and disposable income and money velocity?
Did Tooth Fairy loving children come up with this idea?
Well it does say financial assets which presumably does not include real estate. Only bonds, bank deposits and stocks which can be transferred.
Alright, financial assets only so we don't necessarily get a real estate stampede. Also, one might assume that these financial assets will be instantly hard frozen to prevent other stampedes and ensure availability for transfer.
But it still seems to me that it creates an environment where the government owns too many assets and the same time too many people want to avoid financial assets. I mean, it seems like a default would result in less chaos.
Unless I am mistaken, I would not expect governments to accumulate assets but to use thise assets to retire debt either by handing those assets to lenders or by selling those assets to raise the cash in order to pay down the debt.
Understand there is no way to avoid this. If everyone panics, this will become a self fulfilling prophecy. A system wide bank run, crashing market will all lead to martial law because there is absolutely no other choice. We have no more options except a system reset. But even before martial law, the government will freeze all assets. The more we try to hide, the more intrusive the government will become. There will be nothing orderly about it. Consider not where we are, that's pointless, but where you want to be and how to emerge on the other side. Stacks and ammo, Investment of choice.
Definition of foreign aid: Money taken from the poor in a rich nation to give to the rich in a poor nation.
One solution
http://thinkingaboot.blogspot.ca/2014/01/canadas-foreign-aid-container.html
I think you are on to something there S-o-0........
I guess all those snooty Eurozone do gooders are finding out why Americans love thier evil guns so much. Good luck talking this out over there.
I admire your defiance but while you have been oiling, polishing and loading your gun, the FED in cahoots with the government have been paying you under 1% per annum on your deposits which means that your savings over the last decade or so have been gutted.
True. They also have bought off, treatened and killed our political leaders. They stole our gold and our birthright. They social engineer our families and lives and steal our children at our own expense. This country has missed a few revolutions in the last 100 years or so.
hahahahaaa....
The penny has dropped. This has been the signal since Cyprus and Mutti said it to the world right then.
And ZH says : Bundesbank's STUNNER!
That is something some of us saw as the logical path which is not the one the Anglo oligarchy SINGS since 1981; aka the path and the song of those who initiated this mass neo liberal ideology and imposed its runaway consequences that hold the world to ransom: REagan-Thatcher's new catholic kings legacy of 1% er despotism.
ZH has always been a site that sits with its butt between TWO STOOLS, playing the Libertarian bugle; aka the song of invisible hand all sprinkled with saintly, anointed virtuous Gold dust; Midas's dream resuscitated, in some John Galt's utopian world.
All the while foulmouthing the LOGICal and very concrete path of Pax Americana's Big Business Mantra since Reaganomics unfurled, continuation of the 1929 exuberance, reenacted once the welfare state had been dismantled.
The reality is POWER runs those markets; always has always will; and invisible hands are just Houdini acts; Maddofian scams.
You can't be for the free market, the way its now defined by US unilateral hegemonical ACTS; by those WHO MADE PAX AMERICANA OVER THE 20 TH CENTURY; and at the same time play at being capitalism's Luther nailing his 95 articles in his Edit, all the while treating the new church of DC Rome as the Antichrist.
ZH is very much part of that mindset as it believes in capitalism in those simple terms of being the ONLY yardstick to measure human well being. We stay dogmatists of "free market" belief, whereas the timeline of 20 th century has proven its a chimera like the immaculate conception.
TOday's Jerusalem of capital is WS/DC and its ruling Oligarchy, now spouting a universal monetary religion of the RICH at Davos, to defend its catechism tooth and nail, all the while acknowledging it has been debased by these current sons of the Borgias and Medicis. "We believe in reform and reset not in revolution"...
In a mad, sad, manipulated, dystopian world, where the choice is between Charybdis and Scylla, Bundesbank IMO, is the true Luther of this age, trying to be 11th hour reformist; not the libertarians whom ZH extolls.
They, the Germans, want the rich to pay and the market to reform from top down. Not saying that their brand of Lutherism will cure the disease disseminatd by the new catholic kings of NWO.
If I push the analogy with christian religion's convolutions of the Renaissance age, it was separation of state and religion and the Enlightenment that cured the West of its dogmatic obscurantism and blind faith in Saint Augustine's Judgement Day type metaphysics.
We need a paradigm reset of similar magnitude to current corrupted capitalistic mantra.
As for the libertarians they are just false noses of Pax Americana, living off Kochadoodle swaths of money now inundating the climate skeptic and anti-Internationalist sectors of world capitalism. All the while promoting a xenophobic brand of evangelical and mutant capitalism.
They just be regressionary expressions of the perversity that has become the Pax Americana ethic. No change to hegemonical geopolitcal plays, predatory dominance or to mindset : our elitist wealth stays in Caymans 'cos we be the "Saymen" of american exceptionalism. That is not the prevalent issue facing western society : trying to make the richer richer so that innovation of myopic and dystopian capitalism keeps the wheel spinning in "destructive creation"...haha, destructive for the majority and creative for the uber wealthy.
No dice. The Oligarchs will start running like mice if the financial Titanic quivers like the Costa Concordia did. And the Bundesbank will then be proven right. Cyprus is better than TARP or QE forever. The choices are those.
THE FIRST PRIORITY IS TO SAVE THE NATION STATES AND BRING THEM OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE FINANCIAL OLIGARCHY AND THEIR WEAPONS OF MASS DERIVATIVES TOXIC DESTRUCTION.
Guess whom I'm pointing at!
I guess with three fingers you point at yourself ... ;-)
I wish it were true !
and I be playing golf at Dubai after having skied at Davos!
The trouble really started in the 1700s when the Dutch invented national debt, and put the wealth of individuals into the hands of private interests. We don't need a debt jubilee, we need a paradigm shift.
A big mouthfull but makes a lot of sense. Maybe NSA could do something useful for a change and report on communications between the Wall Street thieves and the tax havens.
The government is more likely to target 401k and other self administered pension funds rather than checking or savings accounts. You are fucked regardless of what you do. In the USA, if you clean out your pension accounts before the age of 55, you have to pay a 10% penalty, and the balance is added to your income and taxed at the marginal rate. If the "wealth tax" is 10% it is more cost effective to just pay the tax. I am sure other countries have similar tax rules.
The "principle of national responsibility" ?
Must be like a Social Contract ... political fantasy.
I'm amazed how people can use this term and not even notice that what it tries to mean contradicts the very words that composes said expression.
"Contract"... right.
Prepare to be DIESELBOOMED in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Nationalize all the global too big to fail banks. All this debt is circulated between them anyway. The debt cancels itself out. The Fed gets to get rid of all that useless crap it's been buying. Then end the Fed and make banks Utilities.
Et voila, the problem she is solved.
So what happens to the deposits in the bank?
What you need to understand is that a few years ago banks lent $90k on a $100,000 house using your savings. That house is now worth $70 which means you will no longer get $100,000 back. You will only get $80k at best.
So I hate to disappoint you but no Nobel Prize for you or me for any so called painless solutions.
you cancel all old debt held by the TBTF nationalised banks.
You reprint new money to honour the small depositor accounts and hard assets get marked to market in the new paradigm.
Debts can be written off and then NEW money only feeds new debt, not servicing old debt written off.
Keynesian priming of economy will work if we grind down old private debt to minimal amounts as thats the poison in the system.
Then make banks into utilities and keep risky investment banking separate and well policed.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=227991
Excerpt:
"(A capital levy) corresponds to the principle of national responsibility, according to which tax payers are responsible for their government's obligations before solidarity of other states is required," the Bundesbank said in its monthly report."
Not at all, since the tax payers cannot, under the law of most nations (including the US) sue to stop the profligacy of the government or even sue when there is outright fraud, waste and abuse, as the courts continually rule they have no standing to do so.
The person who has no ability to stop something cannot be ethically held accountable for it. On the other side the entities that voluntarily go along with such a policy, advocate for it and enable it are the ones who should be held to account.
That would be the banks, both central banks and commercial banks.
Therefore, by the Bundesbank's logic, it's quite simple: First, when the government spends beyond its means and gets in trouble, the people should BBQ and eat the bankers.
you cannot bail in oligarch money because it's mostly hidden and locked up in various trusts and safeharbored property.
the oligarchs own the mechanisms and chokepoints within the financial system by which any assets can be confisacated---the banks, bank accounts, and saftey deposit boxes, and pension funds, and the judges who will be used to approve of public pension reductions ( not that i wouldn't be ok with that last part ) .
you cannot sieze physical property without open rebellion.
anyone supporting confiscation of middle/upper middle class savings---because they think the oligarchs will lose power ---is wrong. confiscations will only strengthen them.
"In considering some of the potential measures likely to be required, the reader may be struck by the essential problem facing politicians: there may be only painful ways out of the crisis"
May is not an option.
"Unfortunately, reaching consensus on such tough action might requiring an environment last seen in the 1930s"
Might is not an optioin.
"In Germany, however, the Bundesbank said it would not support an implementation of a recurrent wealth tax, saying it would harm growth."
Telll us why a wealth tax would need to be reurrent. Just how deep is the problem?
You'd have to be iron clad stupid to be stunned by that.
1- why not default? You do not need to invest in this ugly italian bonds at 1% ( 2yrs) or do you?
2 - as 70% of the "wealth" is in real estate, can I pay you with some bricks dear buba?
So the rich get taxed to pay back the debt owned by the ...er... rich.
There's logic there somewhere.
I'm guessing "rich" really means combined household income of $75-250k....
@teslaberry
Thanks for taking the time to write that very insightful reply to my question last week. I got busy at work and didn't have a chance to thank you then.
I am very pro bail ins, I don't see anything else that will motivate the masses to stand up to the tyrany of the TPTB than theft of their money in plain sight.
Oh, well what do you expect it a central bank after all. They are all defrauders and the only way they can think is in terms of stealing. No Bundesbank the money on the bank accounts does not belong to the state, unfortunatly it does belong to the bank. That's the big problem, but of course the Bundesbank is blind on that eye also.
Bundesbank needs to go bankrupt. They made the bad loans with free money, so let them take the loss, not the citizens. It's ok if governments and banks go bankrupt. Put a few of them in jail and move on.
"Stay still little sheep, once we fleece you you'll feel alot better."
The meme presented several places last week was that less than 1 hundred people own more wealth than half the worlds population.
So, taxing the rich or haircutting, whatever it's called this week, the meme of which has been around for years, instead of us poor, would that then add less than a hundred to the poor half of the worlds population?
Or would the rich just buy CDS's, hypothecate them to the other half of the world's population, thus maintaining the status quo.
Maths are tough.
No worries here.
When they bail in those with .75¢ to 2.50¢,
I'm gonna sweat it.
I don't agree with this, but at the same time why should Germany keep giving Greece more money? Maybe these countries should nut-up and leave the euro.
Jubilee and a wealth haircut.
Sounds like a great party. We should have one every 50 years or so. Maybe there is a neokeynesian solution here.
I think they ought to target the bankers first.
Politicians 2nd.
After that they won't need to ding anyone else.
Let open source software determine how much of a percentage of money any person may have over another.
Oh shit. Here come the down arrows.
Doesn't solve the problem of a shitty, self interested coder(s) getting involved as much as your regular democracy doesn't deal with shitty, self interested "citizens" getting involved...
"tax payers are responsible for their government's obligations before solidarity of other states is required," "
NO NO NO NO, wrong way round. The government are responsible to their tax payers who are already PAYING for the idiocy of their government mishandling of the many crises to date!
withdraw 100%
Despicable, but this may tilt Europe in favor of smaller govt if they have to really pay for it in the future...
Generally wealth gets vaporized and redistributed during revolutions, civilization collapses, etc.
Why not try a jubilee or a one percenter haircut? Maybe it is the more civilized way to deal with these situations.
I can produce friends and relatives who can attest to me predicting an inevitable "asset tax" as soon as Ross Perot lost in 1992.
wow, your timing was way off!
This article contradicts ZH post http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-22/top-1-has-65-times-more-wealth-bottom-half-and-global-elite-it-way , which claims that 1% is 65 times richer than bottom half. According to this post, the bottom 90% have $40T in wealth; but the top 10% $180T, or about 80%.
A bail-in on the rich is not a tax on middle class, which has no wealth. A bail-in on the rich is a tax on the top 10%. To achieve the desired effect that is suggested in this article requires a tax of 11% on the top 10%.
Would love to see those countries tell the Bundesbank "f*ck that - we're just declaring bankruptcy and calling it a day. Explain THAT to the German banks, you lousy slack-jawed rats."
And they should declare it Michael Scott-style.
Nice to see that in Europe we are all "Brüders" as in the 'national' hyme of the EU. Except that zee Germans are more Brüders than everybody else.
Dare I say it?.... bitcoin! The boom of spring 2013 coincided with Cyprus depositors getting screwed, and Spaniards thinking they're the next in line.
If elected and appointed government officials face a 100% tax for each year of past public service, then we'll talk about raising taxes on citizens.
"there may be only painful ways out of the crisis."
I agree. Let them fail. No bail-in or out. Painful, I know, but this whole mess needs a reset.
'capital levy' = government sanctioned thievery
BuBa to NSA: Hey guys, we need your help. We heard you have all data collected to answer our most urgent question: Who owns or controls what in this world.??? Is this correct?
NSA: Hey, ole partners in crime in Frankfort, Old City of Money. Long time passed since we had business together. How are the things going on in Frankfurt? ha, ha. That was a joke since we know it anyhow. Ha,Ha Yeah, Could be we could help you out. Till now we havent got an order from our masters to check on this matter, hmm.?? When we think about it, yeah, should be not a big problem. Wait a moment. Yeah, that was an easy one. According to our data appx 70% of the multinational corporations are owned or controlled by lesser than 100 persons or entities.Here some data which are anyhow public so that you have something to read my dear Krauts in Frankfort. Wait a moment you will get it soon.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf
http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/intl-commentary/26287-the-one-bank
BuBa: Great, Thanks for your help. Thats good news. You know we have a problem with the debt in Euiroland and we think you have this problem too.
NSA: Problem with debt ? Why should there be a problem with debt here. Berni the Fed Master prints all the money needed to pay for the debts of all.
BuBa: We know, we know. But you know what: Things do not grow into the heaven! We think Berni did to much of a good thing. He can not print for ever but the debts keep growing and growing!! you know the the interest, the interest!! the damn interest.
NSA: The interest ? Why should there be a problem with the interests here. Berni the Fed Master is also in charge for the interests. The interest rates are low here, very low, they were never lower than nowadays.
BuBA: But this is the problem, this is the problem! Money costs nothing and when something costs nothing its worthless, worthless, worthless!!!!! Do you understand!!!
NSA: Worthless our money is worthless?? Are you crazy ? Ok, the Dollar is not anymore the Dollar it was some years ago, but it still buys all we need, everywhere.
BuBa: Yes now but not much longer if we do not stop Berni or Frau Yellen very soon. If they continue to print Dollars at the same rate then your Dollar buys nothing anymore , nowhere! There is only one solution. And its easy. Just extract the money from the super rich and pay down the debts asap, otherwise we are all bust. Our and yours money becoming worthless, worthless, worthless!!!! Hey, we just checked the material you have sent to us a few minutes ago. Great job guys, its all there. And its so simple just get the money from them and pay down the debt. The super rich will anyhow not feel it. They have so much money and assets they will not go hungry to bed if you take away 50% of their blunder from the past 100 years.
NSA: You think so ? But we can not revolt against our masters. We have all sworn to be their true servant, .............
BuBa: Sworn to them!!! sworn to them!!! Ha, Ha,.Ha Do you believe that your masters do waste a thought about what they have sworn to YOU! !!!! Ha, Ha. Our advice from Frankfurt both BuBa and ECB is: Take away a huge chunck of their blunder and pay down big on the debt. If you dont do it, then we aaaaalllllll !!! become their debt slaves forever!
You want to talk stunner?
How about the gut feelings WE ARE ALL GETTING! Is MARCH is on the March?
Old story from 2012.
MEANS: U.S. economy on schedule to crash March 2014-America’s fall will take global economies with it:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/25/us-economy-on-schedule-t...
STOCK UP AND SUPPLY. EVERY CHAOTIC OR NEGATIVE THING THAT HAPPENS FROM HERE TO THE POSSIBLE CRASH IN MARCH IS JUST DISTRACTIONARY HORSE-PISS. STAY ON TARGET AND PREPARE FOR THE FOREIGN COMMUNIST TROOP TAKEOVER OF THE USA. WARN YOUR FRIENDS, FAMILIES, AND COMMUNITIES NOW!!!
Breath...take it easy one day at a time.
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/01/27/hsbc-and-chase-send-clear-signa...
Dream on, Bundesbank. Why should broke nations force their citizens to opt-in when Germany has already opted-in by loaning them the money in the first place? Germany has no choice but to bail out the southerners because if they default, Germany's banking system will collapse.
I think the Bundesbank is prepared to reliquify the banks with marks or whatever the Germans used to have.
They won't allow Blazing Saddles threats lol
"Give me money or I am gonna shoot this Niggah"
johngerard
The sooner the better.
The Bundesbank just gave the middle finger to Spain and Italy.
http://www.positivelynaperville.com/2014/01/25/naperville-receives-1-mil...
Naperville is a wealthy city in bankrupt Illinois. Somehow the bankrupt federal government through FEMA is giving out massive grants to cities who are already taxing their citizens through the nose for statues, electric car charging stations, green schemes, smart meters, bloated pensions, park districts competeing with private business for exercise, golf, swimming etc. The game played in Naperville is the same as Illinois and Federal level. A one party system, where crony capitalism in bed with political hacks, taxing us to death on every level so there is no longer any choice as to what we can do with our own money. As my husband said, after Fat and Furious wants to feed kids dinner, "Why not just put all the kids in state run orphanages, and give parents visiting rights...if they pay their taxes on time."
They tried this fifty years ago with the Swastika.
"Old" Europe is rearing it's stupid head again. The IMF are swindlers and gangsters funded by American taxpayers. They should be dismantled.
Its the other way around.
The world pays for US consumption as the reserve currency status means that US trade deficits don't count : Our money your problem, remember?
Now the DCs are getting creamed in currency wars as the USD is manipulated at fake weak rates to devalue USD debt and that is causing much pain in all BRIC nations; those who produce for first world consumers.
If the BRICS walk away from USD then you will understand the math more clearly.
Euro is a fight between northern banks who are insolvent and southern sovereigns who are insolvent thanks to the Euro straightjacket. Thats solidarity spelt in German. Insolvency is a first world disease and its the same for USD, Euro, Yen, and £.
They all need to eat humble pie for a decade more and have a another paradigm at wake up call.
The euro is such a failed currency