This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Housing Bubble 2.0: "More Flipping, Bigger Profits, In Less Time" With 156,862 Homes Flipped In 2013

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Late 2013 pending home sales may have been horrible, and were blamed on the weather (though as even Goldman notes "The broad-based declines by region suggest that colder-than-average weather was likely not the primary driver, given slightly warmer-than-average temperatures on the Pacific coast in December") , but it appears the weather had zero adverse impact on that other, most pernicious home "selling" activity: flipping.

The topic of home flipping is not new here ("Flip That House" In These Bubbling Cities, Housing Bubble 2.0 Edition: "25 Markets Where Flipping Homes Is Most Profitable", etc) - indeed that best-known flashback of the last housing bubble is easily one of the best indications just how fragile the current housing bubble truly is as investors gobble up real estate not with the intention of keeping it but merely to sell to the next greater fool, in the process setting marginal prices based purely on the availability of cheap money, money which has now been tapered by $20 billion in the past two months. However, to get the full picture on just how pervasive "house flipping" has become, we go to the source, RealtyTrac, which has just released its 2013 summary of this troubling trend.

In summary:

  • 156,862 single family home flips — where a home is purchased and subsequently sold again within six months — in 2013, up 16 percent from 2012 and up 114 percent from 2011.
  • Homes flipped in 2013 accounted for 4.6 percent of all U.S. single family home sales during the year, up from 4.2 percent in 2012 and up from 2.6 percent in 2011

Why are flippers flipping? Simple: they make a killing:

The average gross profit for a home flip — the difference between the flipped price and the price the flipper purchased the property for — was $58,081 for all U.S. homes flipped in 2013, up from an average gross profit of $45,759 in 2012. The average gross profit for homes flipped in the fourth quarter was $62,761, up from $52,746 in the fourth quarter of 2012.

Who is doing the flipping? Why the uber-rich of course, selling hot potatoes to each other, and betting the momentum continues:

  • The biggest increases in flipping nationwide occurred on homes with a flipped price of $400,000 or more. Although flipping increased across all price ranges, flips on homes with a flipped sale price above $400,000 increased 36 percent from 2012, while flips on homes with a flipped sale price at or below $400,000 increased 17 percent from 2012.

However, now that the bubble has likely burst, flipping is dlowing down:

  • Flips accounted for 3.8 percent of all sales in the fourth quarter, down slightly from 3.9 percent of all sales in the third quarter and down from 7.1 percent of all sales in the fourth quarter of 2012 — the highest percentage of sales represented by flips in a single quarter since RealtyTrac began tracking flipping data in the first quarter of 2011

And visually:

More from the full flipper report by RealtyTrac:

The average time to complete a flip nationwide was 84 days in 2013, down from 86 days in 2012 and down from 100 days in 2011.

“Strong home price appreciation in many markets boosted profits for flippers in 2013 despite a shrinking inventory of lower-priced foreclosure homes to purchase,” said Daren Blomquist, vice president of RealtyTrac. “For the year 21 percent of all properties flipped were purchased out of foreclosure, but that is down from 27 percent in 2012 and 32 percent in 2011. Meanwhile flipped homes were still purchased at an average discount of 13 percent below market value in 2013, the same average discount as 2012, indicating that investors are finding discounted buying opportunities outside of the public foreclosure process — particularly in those markets with the biggest increases in flipping for the year.”

Major metro areas with big increases in home flipping in 2013 compared to 2012 included Virginia Beach (up 141 percent), Jacksonville, Fla., (up 92 percent), Baltimore, Md. (up 88 percent), Atlanta (up 79 percent), Richmond, Va., (up 57 percent), Washington, D.C. (up 52 percent) and Detroit (up 51 percent).

Major markets with big decreases in home flipping in 2013 compared to 2012 included Philadelphia (down 43 percent), Phoenix (down 32 percent), Tampa (down 17 percent), Houston (down 17 percent), Denver (down 15 percent), Minneapolis (down 9 percent), and Sacramento (down 5 percent).

 

Broker perspectives

“Investors have not lost interest in purchasing and flipping homes. In fact, now that we are seeing home price appreciation they are more interested than ever,” said Sheldon Detrick, CEO of Prudential Detrick/Alliance Realty, covering the Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Okla., markets.  “The challenge for many would-be flippers in our markets is a shortage of available inventory to flip, as evidenced by the decrease in the number of homes flipped in both Tulsa and Oklahoma City in 2013 compared to 2012.”

“New Hampshire home prices did not depreciate as much as other sections of the country, so we never experienced a tremendous amount of distressed inventory, which makes it difficult for people to find inexpensive properties they can flip. So it follows that gross flipping profits have fallen in our market compared to a year ago,” said Steve McGuire, vice president of business development at Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Verani Realty, covering the Manchester, N.H., market.  “When considering whether or not to flip a home it’s also important to note that house flipping is not for the faint of heart, because there are so many variables that could affect the sales transaction, price and profit.”

“The Denver housing market is still experiencing record-low inventory levels, which causes the best potential flip properties to be few and far between,” said Chad Ochsner, owner of RE/MAX Alliance covering the Denver and Boulder, Colo., markets.  “We have seen a resurgence of opportunities for fix-and-flips in the Boulder market due to a strong increase in home price appreciation, but the distressed home market has dropped by about half making it a challenge to find the right property.”

“February and March can be a great time to buy a fix and flip home to realize the spike in homes values that usually occurs during the spring and early summer buying season,” he added.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:44 | Link to Comment unrulian
unrulian's picture

people never learn

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:57 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

The race to squeeze as much as you can before the BOOM is what this is all about.

There are at least 3 TV programs (my wife loves them) that deal with this shit. They make it seem like "fun".  Until the music stops.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:13 | Link to Comment qqqqtrader
qqqqtrader's picture

great, while more rich people are flipping houses

more soon to be poor people are flipping burgers

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:31 | Link to Comment WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

Maybe, but they'll have to compete with the illegal aliens...

http://americandictators.blogspot.com/2014/01/economic-studies-even-you-...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:46 | Link to Comment TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

And the illegals will have to compete with robots.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-12/meet-smart-restaurant-minimum-w...

 

I think the real question is once we surfs become totally obsolete and redundant to TPTB will they keep us around just for their amusement or what? 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:30 | Link to Comment Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

Just a preview for the Hunger Games.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:16 | Link to Comment maxmad
maxmad's picture

all I know is that my rent has virtually double over the last 8 years, so whats the right way to go??

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:45 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Rents have dropped for the most part in my area. They popped up for awhile two years ago, then stagnated and are about 10% lower now off their highs.  Builders added over 4,000 new houses and apartment complexes flood the former cow pastures. Those massive complexes give 1-3 months free rent so isolated house rentals have a tough time competing.

Who knows where they will go from here?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:16 | Link to Comment The Vineyard
The Vineyard's picture

Hey, squeeze out every nickel possible.  Why?  When interest rates get raised, this house of cards is going down.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

At the last crash funds rate was 5%. Now it is zero. Do the math.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:03 | Link to Comment johnconnor
johnconnor's picture

True story: last weekend I met up with an old friend (mid 30's, well educated, nice guy) that is a school teacher. Anyway and making the story short: He has inherited some money from the family and is going to leave teaching and start being a "full time flipper". He was absolutely conviced that with he will flip 4-5 houses a year and after repairs and expenses it will be a super easy to net over $25,000 per house and through this he will make a lot more money with less work and no risk, being fulish to actually work for wages. This is in Dallas where a median house is $130-200K.Of course I tried to warm him on the risks and that by quitting teaching he will miss the sweet pension he will be getting in a few years down the line, but he won't listen. Articles like this, and seeing "Joe next door" becoming professional flippers are telling me that the mege crash of real state is months away, maybe just weeks...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:45 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

 'There's a sucker born every minute...'

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

8 more now...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:18 | Link to Comment maxmad
maxmad's picture

Trying to fiqure out who the suckers is???  The guy who is down 20% since he purchased is home is 2008 or the guy who rents, like me, and has nothing to show for it and rent has doubled over the last 8 years.....

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:19 | Link to Comment maxmad
maxmad's picture

Either way I am idiot...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:50 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Is it February yet? Because it sure feels like groundhog day.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:19 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Imbolc - a cross-quarter day, halfway between the solstice and the equinox. Crossing points are scary in European folklore. Criminals were often gibbeted at crossroads.

Also:

St. Bridgit's Day

Candlemass

Presentation of the Lord

And it's my birthday!

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:41 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

thanks for the reminder, perfect day to winter sow some seeds.

also it's the last day of the Year of the Snake (in the West at least).

auspicious day for a birthday, cheers!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:31 | Link to Comment greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> And it's my birthday!

That makes it easy to remember.  My sister's birthday is Summer Solstice.  We always exchange humorous emails about it.  I'll have to send her a happy Imbolc day email.

 

Thanks for the new, to me, word.  Me likes words.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well happy birthday Rex. I wish you all the best in this upcoming year.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:51 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

What if there isn't a tomorrow?! There wasn't one today!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Why do people buy it from these houseflippers and don't look for themselves?

I mean... if you can find it 50K cheaper if you look for them... paint the grass green... kill the neighbours dog...

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Three houses I looked at back in August were flippers(listings were incorrect).

trying to sell.

They are still on the market after several price reductions.

That bibble (tm)didn't last long.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:59 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

from bubbles to bibbles to bobbles to babbles

(tm)'s optional ;~)

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:00 | Link to Comment object_orient
object_orient's picture

Regular buyers with FHA financing and little money down can't compete with all-cash offers from investors on discounted fixer properties.

You need an inside deal, all cash, or will pay a large premium. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:55 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

It is a sign that things are broken beyond repair tht durable, physical assets has become a "trade." 

Take out the spec churn, and what you've got left is nothing but a rag doll1 of a housing market.

1Wilkes, Uncommon Valor

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:57 | Link to Comment starman
starman's picture

bought in 09 at 750K sold in may 2013 all cash ...........1.250K

TAX free! when the stock and real estate market corrects Ill be back shopping :] 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Sounds great. But no young kids, I guess. And where do you live since May 2013.... nicer area. More expensive. Worse area. More dangerous ???

Selling for a Profit is great, but we/you still need a roof over your head. No ?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

To heck with the flippers and the banks. The wife and I sold our house, are renting now, and when we get tired of that we might buy a travel trailer and park it in a wal-mart parking lot, that way we will be within walking distance of all that chinese crap...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Obama_4_Dictator
Obama_4_Dictator's picture

My Wife loves all those flipper show, me, personally I could puke.  Bunch of lynatic freaks that really offer nothing to society.  I could not belive that they were back on TV again.  We are getting very, very close to the top agian!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:35 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the flipper reality shows help educate the public about what flippers are really doing (if you're informed you can discount the flippers work and flipping is no longer profitable), it also proves how corrupt television is, i watched a young family buy a home at auction (after paying more than they had planned) only to find out the place had been sabotaged, cement poured into the toilets. etc..  so the buyer called his insurance company, and they made good on the damages??!! well not for you and me i think, but in the interest of happy endings on TV they were bailed out by insurance on something that was damaged before they bought it... and if an insurance company has a large portion of MBS maybe they are inclined to help out the flipping business in any way they can, while you and i pay the premiums

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Gromit
Gromit's picture

Correct - this article is bullshit.

Flipping worked well (San Diego)  in 11 and 12 but since the hedgies piled on I couldn't compete.

Profit margin at best  11% pre interest for a five month turnaroud.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:26 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

I live just north in Temecula.  When I looked to buy a house in 2013, the houses that were listed were done as a formality. The banks had already done deals for cash with the flippers, that I would have had to take a loan out for (at the listed price, I would have).  The houses were back on the market in less than 60 days, with an average bump of 68-75K!  No joke. 

Fuck flippers.  They keep a working family man like me from owning a home.  

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:07 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

yeah and who benefits from reinflating the housing bubble, not you and me

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

I only pass them by, still that dude in Vegas is the worst.  He needs to be bitch slapped, especially the way he treats his wife.  She'd kind of a bitch too, but at least she's somewhat smokin' hot.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

No no no this time is different. We have Facebook, Twitter & Netflix which wasn't around then. Right?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Looks like that gay guy Jeff Lewis will be back in business. Good for him !

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:17 | Link to Comment Obama_4_Dictator
Obama_4_Dictator's picture

I jsut love gays and real estate agents - 2 of my favorite things!! The world could use more!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:47 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

If so, there is a TV show on Bravo, 'Million Dollar Listing Los Angeles', that you might like.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:10 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Many of these houses need a Flipper...they have been stripped and will need to be fixed up before some end user will buy them....appliances need replacing..maybe even the plumbing and wiring as it might have been stripped of everything...Flippers serve a purpose I think...the Bankers will not do it...they do not know how to do it..they probably dont even know what they own......

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Or maybe the buyer could pay a lot less for the house and hire a contractor of his choice to fix the problems, instead of paying some unskilled twit a ridiculous amount of profit.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

After seeing how flippers work, I would never buy a flipped house. Fresh paint, stainless appliances and granite counter tops on rotten wood you actually had to scrap - what a waste of money. Most houses need at minimum wiring, plumbing, insulation, windows, heating completely replaced. Instead they mount a so-much-energy-saving Nest on a 20 year old furnance, while most heat gets lost through windows and walls anyway. People judge assets by their wrapping and believe it was a good investment. Great economy were people can be fleeced easily.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:11 | Link to Comment the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

 Going to need a bigger spatula

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:22 | Link to Comment RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

Not sure I understand all the hate for flipping....

 

If a house can be bought and fixed up to be sold what's the big deal?

 

I suppose we shouldn't fix up cars to sell either?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:23 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

I change my underwear when I go to the Doctor....just seems like the right thing to do...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Fiat Burner
Fiat Burner's picture

Its not the flipping itself we hate, but the cheap money central planning that encourages it excessively.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:36 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

Fuck you. Why should I line your middleman pockets? Flippers don't really add value, just cost.  I could put my own counter top on. I can take bids from different roofing contractors just as easily as a flipper. I can hire an electrician to pull wire to a junction box with just a phone call.   Most of the time they cover up shit from the potential home owner. 

For the same reason I don’t want to give a dime to a real estate agent, I don’t want to give money to a flipper.  They don’t work for it; the value isn’t there for what they charge.

In the event you are NOT a flipper, I resend the fuck you.

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:34 | Link to Comment conspicio
conspicio's picture

**rescind**  def: take back, cancel <refused to rescind the order>

 

"resend"ing the fuck you would be "to send again" and therefore double the fuck you. Which I do not think that word meant what you think that word meant.

 

Class dismissed. Carry on with the fuck you-ing and meaningless but spirited exchange...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:02 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

You're right. Your spelling is great. I love that new cologne you are wearing. What is it, Pretentious?

I don't care if you correct the spelling; in fact I appreciate the heads up so that I can correct it. I do take personal offensive to your dismissive, pretentious, elitist attitude toward my opinion.

It may not be meaningful to you, but then you haven't been in a fight over housing for the last ten years.  You haven't had to deal with the arguments and hostility about not purchasing a house that I have had to endure.  Walk a mile in my shoes and you will know how much this means to me. Here is your sign, "Fuck YOU". 

Thanks for this link too. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:13 | Link to Comment RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

Fuck you. Why should I line your middleman pockets? Flippers don't really add value, just cost.  I could put my own counter top on. I can take bids from different roofing contractors just as easily as a flipper. I can hire an electrician to pull wire to a junction box with just a phone call.   Most of the time they cover up shit from the potential home owner. 

For the same reason I don’t want to give a dime to a real estate agent, I don’t want to give money to a flipper.  They don’t work for it; the value isn’t there for what they charge.

In the event you are NOT a flipper, I resend the fuck you.

 

If you don't find fair value in the house, don't buy it. Go buy another one....

 

Don't be a tool.....

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:13 | Link to Comment RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

oh, and I am not a flipper. Just a person with a free market mentality asking questions.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:39 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

It's not a question, it's a fallacy. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/weak-analogy/  Then after making such an incredibly uninformed comment, you then try and play it off like you are just asking what is on everybody elses mind - just the messenger.  People see through that shit.  I didn't down vote you, people who see through your fallacy did.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Erudite Redneck
Erudite Redneck's picture

Thanks for stating the obvious, when you can change monetary policy so the price of shelter is not so easily driven up by manipulated under market interest rates feel free to report back to all of us economic illiterates here on ZH.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Free markets don't include the government bailing out bad investments:

 

1)Banks who made bad loans

2)Speculators who bought homes/land

3)Buyers who willingly signed up for big loans on homes they couldn't afford

4)Home builders who overbuilt and bought land at outrageous prices

5)Buyers of MBS and CDOs

 

or the government and Fed propping up marktets by:

 

1)QE 1-3

2)the twist

3)ZIRP

4)HAMP

5)Fannie/Freddie high loan limits, too large debt-to-income ratios - backed by the taxpayer 

6)FHA acting like a subprime lender, high loan limits, high income limits - backed by the taxpayer

 

to name a few

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:32 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

Every time I see a house listed on sites like, http://www.zillow.com/ , or http://www.redfin.com/ , or http://www.trulia.com/ I can put an offer in, and a flipper already has a sale pending.

When you say something as lame as,

 Not sure I understand all the hate for flipping....

If a house can be bought and fixed up to be sold what's the big deal?

I suppose we shouldn't fix up cars to sell either?

then you have dismissed that someone like me has been looking for a fair value, and that there is always another one....(there is never another one, just a carrot on a stick)  It's a bullshit game. The only way in or out in the city I live in is to be a sucker and pay the flip.  I can't make a direct deal with the bank, only the flippers paying cash can.  I have to use a real estate agent.   

Speaking of tools.......  Comparing houses to cars is a logical fallacy of a "weak analogy" if ever there was one.  http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/weak-analogy/

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Putting paint for $500 on rotten wood and sell the house for $50,000 more - that's the American business model in a nutshell.  And then they hate us for our productivity.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

and using a taxpayer backed loan

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:37 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

My flips are all cash purchases.  You don't have to bat 1.000 to make money, but you do need more winners than losers.  I had some homes that were upside down (worth less than I paid cash for) from 2009, but I just turned them into rentals until it made sense to sell them.  The only people who get wiped out are the people borrowing money and are too leveraged.  Having said that, I think we are peering over the edge of a cliff.  When you go and get a haircut and your stylist is talking about flipping houses, you better be unloading everything you own!

Rotate into gold and silver imo, and wait to buy back real estate at a significant discount after the current bubble pops.

 

Best wishes for everyone.  It's a bumpy ride ahead.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:18 | Link to Comment Erudite Redneck
Erudite Redneck's picture

So you are no different than Goldman just looking for some muppets to run over. How in good faith can you sell something to someone that you know in the near future they are going to lose money on?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:44 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

Flippers,  may they get gental cancer.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 16:43 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

I buy a distressed property, and put my time, money and sweat equity into it.  The purchase is based upon my entrepreneurial evaluation of the opportunity.  The people I sell to are happy to buy; otherwise, they wouldn't purchase the house.  It's very basic logic Einstein.

"How in good faith can you sell something to someone that you know in the near future they are going to lose money on?"

There's no guarantee of that, but I'll play along.  Ever heard of the auto industry?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Housing Bubble 2.0"

 

How is mortgage fraud 2.0 doing?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Just great.

Thats why Jamie is richer than us.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:41 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Mortgage fraud is a straw man imo.  I don't think it was as bad as it was made out to be in 2008, and it's even less prevalent now.  Banksters and politicians ALWAYS blame the people with the least amount of money and influence - i.e. mortgage brokers, realtors, and appraisers.  Somehow, they never look in the mirror at the people who lowered the guidelines to where one only needed a pulse to purchase a home.

Underwriting guidelines are like specifications for widgets.  I match widgets with customers based upon need and somehow it's the broker's fault.  Critical thinking FTL.

 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Can I use my MyRA as downpayment?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:01 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

yes, but we must insist on 10% down

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Yes, but you have to get permission from the ChiComs.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:00 | Link to Comment syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Flipping is the foundation of the economy. Buying and selling each other "homes" is all that's left. If that's outsourced to China too, then what?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:05 | Link to Comment thorgodofthunder
thorgodofthunder's picture

I've been invested with a group that buys, renovates and sells all within 90 days.  All cash buys.  Doing great!  Basically gotten all my initial investment out in 4 years.  Not huge downside due to volume and diversification. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:12 | Link to Comment I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

That's not flipping, buy and fix and sell is legitimate.  Well, I guess it means the ultimate owner was prevented from buying at a lower price and fixing things themselves, but there's just very little of that around these days.

"Flipping" to me means no cash, no money at all - you sign for the property NMD and resell it with NO improvements and without ever having made the first mortgage payment.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:17 | Link to Comment RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

That's not flipping, buy and fix and sell is legitimate.  Well, I guess it means the ultimate owner was prevented from buying at a lower price and fixing things themselves, but there's just very little of that around these days.

"Flipping" to me means no cash, no money at all - you sign for the property NMD and resell it with NO improvements and without ever having made the first mortgage payment.

 

And this is bad, why? 

 

Enlighten please.....

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:10 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

That's what I wanted to do, but being the little guy I'm not allowed to buy directly from the wholesaler (and they ain't sellin'....to me/us).

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

I believe this definition of flipping - sold within 6 months - results in underestimating extent of flipping, as a lot of serial flippers live in the homes for 2 years to make the first quarter million in gain tax free. Sort of slow motion flipping.

Flipping is a perfectly legitimate way to make a good living

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

You dance until the music stops.....

The fed pays the band.....

And you resume dancing......

Any questions?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:08 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Profit does not equal the price you sold it for minus the price you bought it for.  There are repair costs, title/settlement costs, and taxes and insurance, etc. to be paid in the meantime.

If Wal-Mart sells item Y at $20 but bought it for $10 is their profit also $10?  No, because they have transportion costs, electricity, taxes, wages, insurance, credit card processing, etc.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:07 | Link to Comment boeing747
boeing747's picture

Last time I checked my gardner Jose, he still lives in section 8.

To qualify a full scale balloon,

a: most of 'no brainer' must participate.

b: credit must be widely available.

c: hyper inflation for a year.

d. time magazine front cover 'home, sweet home'.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:52 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

"Daddy, I don't want to be a Brain Surgeon when I grow up.  Can I please be a Flipper?....Please Daddy, please....."

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

Actual flippers, i.e. the types that get a line of credit from some 'hard money guy', go to an auction and buy a dump, and then hire a bunch of inexperienced and/or unlicensed workers and play 'polish the turd', and then turn around and sell it to some unsuspecting buyer, IMO that practice is undefensible. Sure, they can make a lot of money if they do it right, but they are not really producing anything of real value, they are just opportunists taking advantage of the housing situation, the buyer (and eventually the rest of us) end up picking up the tab, all because the flippers are not smart enough to have a real job and instead make a quick buck by palooking their fellow man?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:15 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i know a guy who has been flipping treasury bonds for several years, only every time he flips them they're worth a bit less

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

Remember back in the day when a house used to be shelter and not an 'asset class'? Whats next? Maybe farmers should rise up against the system where they hedge crops via the futures market (because like all paper markets, they are basically corrupt) and instead go onto a sort of collective website where they sell their bushels of wheat to, you guessed it, flippers, who in turn sell it it to the end users/producers, and then we can all pay $500.00 for a loaf of bread...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:51 | Link to Comment idontcare
idontcare's picture

Dec 2012, my best friend purchased a 1950's POS in the ghetto of Ft. Lauderdale next to an industrial park & underneath high voltage electrical lines & 2 transformers.  He painted it, upgraded the countertops as I landscaped, put in low voltage landscape lighting, and a paver driveway and paver walkways to a back paver area we created and placed Target faux chaise lounges on.... Dec 2013 the house resold for 3.8x what was paid for it plus the minor amount put into renovating it..... But no - we aren't in a housing bubble at all (cough, cough, wink, nod, stumble, choke).  ;-)

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!