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The MyRA Propaganda Begins: "A Start To A Secure Retirement" Promises Treasury Secretary

Tyler Durden's picture


You didn't think the US could at first slowly, and then all of a sudden, expropriate retirement accounts and invest them in the "no risk, guaranteed return" MyRA Ponzi scheme introduced by Obama during the State of the Union address without lots of behavior-modifying indoctrination in the "friendly press" first now did you? Sure enough, here is the first major propaganda salvo, coming from none other than the US Treasury Secretary, Jack Lew, which will be published tomorrow across the McClatchy media empire.

* * *

Just out from the US Treasury Department, "In an op-ed to be published in the January 31, 2014 editions of McClatchy Newspapers, Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew discusses myRA -  a simple, safe and affordable starter savings account to help low and moderate-income Americans begin building towards a more secure financial future."

myRA: A start to a secure retirement

Over the past five years, our country has accomplished a number of big things.  The economy has grown stronger after being shaken to the core by the worst recession in our lifetimes.  Our businesses have created more than 8 million jobs.  The financial system is more resilient, with better protections for consumers and investors.  And investments in domestic energy production have helped put the promise of American energy independence in sight. 

In the meantime, health care costs have grown at their slowest rates in years while millions of families now have access to affordable health care coverage so they are not one hospital visit away from falling into financial ruin.  Our auto industry is surging even as home values are rebounding.  And the federal deficit has been cut by more than half.

So we have made clear progress.  But we all understand that we are not where we want to be yet.  Too many Americans cannot find a job.  Too many Americans who do have a job are not getting paid enough to support their families and make ends meet.  And too many Americans do not have the skills they need to succeed in today’s economy. 

As President Barack Obama made clear in his State of the Union address, it is time to focus on restoring opportunity for all.  That means helping to make sure more Americans can take part in our growing economy and build some economic security for the long term.  To get that done, we are putting forward real, concrete solutions to our most pressing problems—from college affordability and job training to fair wages and a stable retirement. 

Now, when it comes to retirement, you would think that the vast majority of working Americans would be putting some money away for their future.  But the truth is, many are not.  For millions of working men and women, it is not easy to save for the long haul.  Many employers do not offer a retirement plan.  And setting up a retirement account and maintaining it can often be too difficult, expensive and time-consuming. 

The statistics paint a stark picture.  Only about half of all workers have access to an employer-based retirement plan, such as a 401(k).  And left on their own, few workers save.  It is estimated that fewer than one out of 10 eligible workers actually contribute to an IRA.

Still, every American deserves the chance to build a secure retirement.  That is why the Obama administration has designed a new way for working Americans to start saving for the future.  This program, which will begin later this year, is called myRA or My Retirement Account. 

This account is designed to help low- and middle-income workers, who are too often overlooked or ignored, begin saving for retirement.  We are talking about the waitress who is holding down two part-time jobs to support her kids; the recent graduate who landed a job but is grappling with student loans; the janitor who has never been given the chance to invest in a retirement account.

Here is how myRA, which is simple, safe and affordable, will work.

You will be able to start saving with an initial deposit of as little as $25 and contribute as little as $5 each payday.  If an employer chooses to participate, contributions are made through automatic payroll deductions, making them hassle-free. 

There are no fees—100% of any contribution goes into the account and is invested in a Treasury securityThat means it will be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, will earn the same interest rate that is available to federal employees for their retirement savings, and the balance will never go down.

Finally, myRA is not tied to any one employer—it belongs to the worker, not the workplace.  In other words, the account is portable and can be easily rolled into a Roth IRA.  And if myRA savers ever need to, they can withdraw their contributions tax-free, at any time.

MyRA is a specific way in which we can help hardworking Americans save for the future.  But there are other things we can do.  In particular, the President has consistently called on Congress to help tens of millions of middle class Americans save for the future by opening up access to automatic IRAs in the workplace. 

And we will continue to look for ways to help increase economic security, strengthen the middle class, and provide more ladders of opportunity into the middle class.  That is how we will help make sure every American can take part in this recovery.  And that is how we will help usher in a stronger, more prosperous future for our country.

Jacob J. Lew is the secretary of the Treasury.


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Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:41 | 4384668 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Scam, nothing more. You die....FED keeps the $

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:41 | 4384678 unplugged
unplugged's picture

yep - its just "voluntary" social security - you don't get to pass that on when you die

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:42 | 4384685 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Until Obama has his retirement in there I don't want to hear a blessed thing.

Rip off artists

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:45 | 4384693 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Please can anyone explain to me how is MyRA different from a Ponzi scheme?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:48 | 4384723 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"Please can anyone explain to me how is MyRA different from a Ponzi scheme?"

Easy- when an individual does this its a ponzi scheme he's arrested and goes to jail. When the govt does it, it's a "retirement account plan" and its all good!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:51 | 4384743 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Actually, the phrase "A Start To A Secure Retirement" holds water. By retirement, they mean your downfall.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:54 | 4384757 CH1
CH1's picture

I bet this is almost as successful as Obamacare!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:58 | 4384791 Steve in Greensboro
Steve in Greensboro's picture

Obamacare: health insurance for the stupid.  MyRA: investment for the stupid.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:05 | 4384796 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



And that is how we will help usher in a stronger, more prosperous future for our country.

What country is that, Jacob?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:10 | 4384848 maskone909
maskone909's picture



Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:21 | 4384896 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

And investments in domestic energy production have helped put the promise of American energy independence in sight.

After all the cock-blocking they've done with env regs and stalled approvals, this is shameless.


Edit (after reading the first 2 paragraphs):  WTF alternate reality do these people live in?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:22 | 4384908 Blano
Blano's picture

Re: the alternate reality, my sentiments exactly below.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:31 | 4384961 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Apparently the Cabinet now meets in the Choom Room.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:00 | 4385108 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

to hh.......let me know how francis is certainly will meet him with this one....

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:19 | 4385199 redpill
redpill's picture

With no withdrawal penalty how is this any different than a savings account apart from the fact they force you to buy Treasuries with it?  Do they issue you a 1099 on any capital gain?  Fuckin feds.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:22 | 4385217 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"And if myRA savers ever need to, they can withdraw their contributions tax-free, at any time."

Wait, wait, are these contributions pre tax or after taxes?  Can I just contribute my whole paycheck, then withdraw it all and owe no taxes?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:42 | 4385324 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Reading this trip is like reading something from the ministry of truth. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:01 | 4385411 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Remember the read the fine print, guys.  

The "withdrawal at any time without paying taxes" sounds like they're saying "... but with penalties".  You can't withdrawal funds from a Roth IRA prior to 59-1/2 without penalties.  Why else would they allow you to roll it into a Roth IRA unless there were penalties for saying "gimme the cash"?

And I'll almost guarantee it will become the property of the US Gov if you die with any assets in the account (and again, hence the ability to roll it into a Roth IRA, which most will forget to do).


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:45 | 4385591 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

how can the gubbermint get voluntary contributions if they dont crash the stock market?  

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:28 | 4385746 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

This is no more dangerous than jumping off a bridge.

Both are completely voluntary.

WHen it becomes compulsary, then you drama queens can start to worry...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:51 | 4385929 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

It is not the role of government to maintain a retirement account for it's citizens, voluntary or compulsory.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:58 | 4385646 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Exactly, physical assets and PMs just keep getting better and better.  Wish I could find some 22LR however.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:55 | 4385391 Mercuryquicksilver
Mercuryquicksilver's picture

It's "like a Roth IRA" so no. Moreover, who's to say the government doesnt change their minds later on about withdrawal without penalty?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:59 | 4385811 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

>>> Moreover, who's to say the government doesnt change their minds later on about withdrawal without penalty?<<<

THIS is why we are stuck in the longest recession ever, the lowest savings rate ever, the worst labor force participation rate ever ...

We cannot trust the government. Not to be wise, not to be insightful, and especially not to keep any one plan going the way it started for more than five minutes. How do you plan for the future when the rules change on the hour?

SS was supposed to be a minimum level of support to prevent poverty among the elderly. It was only going to take a tiny percent of anyone's income, only open to those who contributed, only this and only that. Then when they wanted to buy votes later, it was expanded to include disability (for those who never contributed), the rate went up (and up and up), the wage cap went up (and up and up), the trust fund was raided to pay government bills, and so on. This will be no different.

Why would any thinking individual get anywhere near this, voluntary or not? It's time to roll the guillotines .

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:02 | 4385953 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

THIS is why we are stuck in the longest recession ever, the lowest savings rate ever, the worst labor force participation rate ever ...

Hell, you're penalized for SAVING.   Gov robs you twice - no real interest is paid on your savings because gov is giving trillions in free money to banks so they have no incentive to compete for YOUR measely savings AND the official Fed policy of inflation (Vastly underreported) means your money is worht less and less the longer you let it sit.   You'd have to be a fool NOT to convert any 'savings' into tangible assets that at least HOLD their value (It's what China is doing with their dollars) As for workforce participation....  Gov could change that IMMEDIATELY by putting restirictions on TARP  - require any recipient to repatriate JOBS they sent overseas (hell corporations have no problem with repatriating profits if they get a tax break... we've given them TRILLIONS so how about a quid pro quo?)   Wall Street and Banking sent all their data processing and call centers overseas a few decades ago.  They SHOULD have been required to bring those jobs back.  Instead they're now sending their accounting functions to India and elsewhere.    How about limiting 'FREE TRADE'?  No more shipping whole factories overseas.   Instead BOTH parties aer pushing for even worse job losses with TPP.  No sane nation willingly kills its own manufacturing base.  Insead of measuring PRODUSTION of goods made in the US we now measure our economy by CONSUMPTION of goods made elsewhere - and that consumption is declingin because without jobs people cannot afford to consume anything - even food.   Meanwhile the little the US DOES export - grain and such - is subsidized by US taxpayers - and worse.  With every bushel of grain sent overseas we send irreplaceable water drawn from US aquifers and all the oil used to run the equipment and produce the fertilizer and pesticides needed to grow it.  We are sentding oil and water overseas with every form of agricultural export. Government serves a very few - the wealthiest and most powerful - and will continue to do so until money is taken out of political campaigns and politicians are held accountable.  We now live in a form of crony capitalism where profits are not earned through better products or honest competition but by manipulating the playing field and using government to help you while squashing competition.
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 21:15 | 4386183 Georgia_Boy
Georgia_Boy's picture

If you can withdraw contributions at will, who seriously thinks these hard-working, working class working workers will NOT blow up the accounts long before their retirement? No IRA can fix your retirement if you won't save.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:24 | 4385227 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

unctuous reprobates.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:31 | 4385232 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

@smlbizman; you're right w/ this:

to hh.......let me know how francis is certainly will meet him with this one....

they/we all'll do.  eventually.  for pointing out the obvious. dont you criticize (or bite the hand of)  those that rule here. so much for the premise of fight club.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:05 | 4385132 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

But SSI has been such a huge success.....what could possibly go wrong?


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:28 | 4385241 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Haven't seen you here for a while.  How is the greenhouse working out for you this winter?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 21:47 | 4386284 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

Good to hear from you HH.  We needed to focus on soil regeneration this Winter in our greenhouse; theres so much to learn.  We've some hot-beds going outside w/some leafy greens and roots's been a fine year for produce!

How are things in your neck of the woods?  Have you and Mrs HH picked up any new farming skills of late?




Fri, 01/31/2014 - 09:04 | 4387319 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Well, you see: Social Security is full of I.O.U.s in the form of US Treasuries that must be paid off by the same taxpayer (and his kids and Grandkids) who "contributed" to SS, effectively paying twice for one retirement.

This, on the other hand, is going to be backed by U.S. Treasuries.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:36 | 4385286 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Jack Lew and the Two Learned Elders busy with preparing the bright tomorrows for American retirees...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:53 | 4385801 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

This propaganda  from Jack Lew sounds more like an excerpt from the Onion

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:25 | 4384920 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture


25 to start, plus 5 a week for 30 years is, wait for it, 7825 plus interest, but since this wont exactly keep up with inflation, just call it even at 7800 in purchasing power when i'm retired


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:28 | 4384937 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Does anyone believe anything this poser says now? 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:40 | 4384996 Levadiakos
Levadiakos's picture

And it's amazing how much he looks like a young Bob Dylan

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:47 | 4385030 superflex
Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:00 | 4385137 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



And how about the resemblance of Michelle with Jackie O 



Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:28 | 4384945 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Don't spend it all in one place.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:35 | 4384978 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



In 30 years, $7800 might get you 1/2 an ounce of gold.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:24 | 4385223 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You're nuts if you think it will buy you more than a packet of complimentary ketchup in 30 years.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 17:59 | 4394170 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

holy shit, I can get dividends paid in Ketchup? Sign me the fuck up!!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:17 | 4385487 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"In 30 years, $7800 might get you 1/2 an ounce of gold."

I think you meant in 30 Months, $7800 might get you half an ounce of gold.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:15 | 4386000 Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

So clearly what you're telling me is, "you'll more than likely to get a better return on your investments, or at minimum preserve your labor if you purchase gold rather than treasuries through MyRA"?

Time for some objective, deductive reasoning:

If Obama really wanted what's best for the poor and middle class' interests, wouldn't he recommend buying gold?  And for a cherry on top, how's about he take it upon himself to remove the capital gains tax from the appreciation of gold thereof (since he's ready to do things without congress' approval).  At least he would provide an alternative to investing in this MyRA.  People like choices.  I realize the investment value could go down as gold's value relative to the dollar could drop, but at least there is no counter-party risk. With treasuries, one has the risk of default, the risk of true inflation exceeding the rate of return, taxable moments, non-transferrable for inheritance; and risk of "bail-ins" (ala cyprus and poland).

I am convinced that the risks of possessing a MyRA exceeds those of owning gold.  Either Obama "just doesn't get it" or he's being disengenious.  I believe he is being disengeious.

In light of my findings, I will not be signing up for this "MyRA".



Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:25 | 4386027 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Me thinks the best approach would be a self directed MyGold IRA.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:56 | 4385088 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

>>>After all the cock-blocking they've done with env regs

Considering all this fracking is exempt from the clean water act, all other env regs are nothing but distraction & a deliberate hamstring of the little guy . 

We all need clean water. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:21 | 4385508 toady
toady's picture

I know, right?

This one got me ;

"And the federal deficit has been cut by more than half."

Must be the new math...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:11 | 4384854 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Too bad his hat wasnt' actually on fire. THAT would have been funnyt right there.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:16 | 4384883 maskone909
maskone909's picture

just a thought,

since retirement accounts are for the most part protected against bankruptcy,  why not take out huge loans and put them into the MyRA and file chapter 7?  you could just withdraw all the funds after your case is processed, correct?  tax free no penalties will cause alot of fraud and money laundering problems. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:24 | 4384916 Alethian
Alethian's picture

Well that's my retirement organized.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:36 | 4384965 maskone909
maskone909's picture


i anticipate that this will cause a major problem for conventional retirements once you consider the tax free penalty free aspect.  in the last 20 years we have seen several major crashes in the market.  when you factor in the losses from market corrections and add in the 30+/- tax and penalties, i see alot more people favoring Myras over traditional 401k's and ira's

this opens up a whole new can of worms


a bulk of the marketshare of s&p and DOW participants consist of folks retirement plans.  if folks favor mYra;s over traditional retirements we will lose a huge chunk of the stock market.  the onlything favorable as it stands are the lackluster employment numbers(whatever they really are)

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:38 | 4385300 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Is MyRA going to be managed by Jaimie and his Chase lackies?  If not then a double whammey, Stockmarket crash and WS crash.....

Bring it on

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 23:11 | 4386546 scrappy
scrappy's picture


Never heard of it, drinking again.

I am beginning to understand the vodka drinkers Boris.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 16:45 | 4394004 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

is cold of communism, not cold of Russia, is vodka help warm up from.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:58 | 4385408 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



So your saying a takeover of the private pension industry brilliant observation! And of course since this program has the full faith and credit of the U.S. government which most people don't realize is already technically insolvent (Trillions in the hole) a lot of people will fall for it.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:14 | 4385471 maskone909
maskone909's picture


it will be viewed as Tax, penalties, and risk VS no risk, no tax, no panalties (which of course is BS).

we are looking at a situation that could possibly render professionaly managed conventional retirement accounts obsolete.  this of course, will cause ripple effects in stock markets and god knows what else.  eventually as they take over marketshare, folks will probably have no choice but to put the money in GOV hands because 401K's will have to raise fee's to compete. but by then the stock market will have probably lost a ton of "value", causing people to run right into MyRA's.  TPTB wont have to force people into treasuries rather its more of a "there isnt any other choice" type of situation(e.g. having to shop at walmart becasue your broke)

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:12 | 4385835 DosZap
DosZap's picture

My question is how do you pay into a MyRA when you have no frikken J_O_B?.

Which cometh first chicken or egg.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 16:35 | 4393990 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Funny you should mention that. You ever hear that in the USSR unemployment was illegal?
Know how you handle that? Grab people at the door at gun point and ORDER them to work.
They don't get to pick, the police-state does.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:12 | 4385836 Dugald
Dugald's picture does it, ah yes,

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what can your country do for you!

yeah, that looks right. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:16 | 4385844 maskone909
maskone909's picture

and lets not confuse government for country

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 16:31 | 4393981 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

as if no assets can be forced into bankruptcy court? How's that work?

I've never done it but I'm pretty sure a part of arguing how little you pay, if anything in bankruptcy, comes as part of showing your assets to show you don't have any. That MyRA thing isn't something you can hide from the court/government so again, how's that work? And a 15k limit on top before it's rolled into something else? How much you plan on borrowing?

Don't get me wrong, I see the concept you're getting at, I'm just having a hard time figuring it as better than taking cash, buying silver & gold, pretending you went to the casino & lost all the cash, while actually just returning from a very clumsy boat ride.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:00 | 4385109 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Is he lighting that guy's hat on fire??

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:10 | 4385154 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture




Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:35 | 4385276 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

Jack Lew the Fucktard Jew.  `Gentlemen, please remove your clothes and proceed into this room ... please don't trip over the empty Zyklon-B cannisters over there.`

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:17 | 4385707 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Remember The U.S.S. Liberty.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 15:48 | 4393886 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

holy, don't think you're taking that too far? And +11 with only -2?

What on earth is ZH becoming. Let emotions take you over & you won't be a good trader either.

At least Francis had the sense to write 'cheesepope'

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:44 | 4386075 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

I once went with a girl named Myra, she really stole me blind. I'll never trust another one named Myra again, as long as I live.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:57 | 4384784 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

MyRA - fully backed by a skilled welfare recipient workforce and a fiatastic soon to be former reserve currency dollar.

I'm in.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:29 | 4384944 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Can I put my gold stack in my MyRA?

On second thoughts, screw MyRA & keep on stackin'...

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:55 | 4384762 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

ALL Ponzi schemes (including government sponsored Ponzi schemes) sooner or later fall apart for one of the following reasons:

1. The promoter of a Ponzi vanishes.
2. Once investment flows slow down, the Ponzi scheme collapses.
3. A sharp decline in the economy forces "investors" to withdraw their funds.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:18 | 4384891 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

"When it reaches the debt limit, the Treasury has to find ways to manage its cash and borrowing so that it can continue funding government activities. One of the many ways it can do this is by suspending investments of the G Fund. As a G Fund investor, you should know that if the Treasury takes this action, your investment is always protected, and your G Fund earnings are fully guaranteed by law under the Thrift Savings Plan Investment Act of 1987. Your G Fund account balance would be exactly the same from day- to-day as if it were invested in Treasury securities. It will continue to accrue earnings and be updated each business day, and loans and withdrawals will be unaffected."

This is from TSP G Fund, the most likely vehicle were the funds will be parked.

Option 3. Listed above is probably the way:  if  $1T is put in, the debt ceiling is reached and them $1T is removed.  POOF $.

The Thrift Savings Plan is the federal employee retirement system kind of like an IRA. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:19 | 4384895 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

US government defaults and MyRA Ponzi collapses.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:28 | 4384940 A is A
A is A's picture

Here's an idea to promote savings.... Bring back the savings rate!!!! I'm tired of getting my measly $0.01 every month for interest!!!!! Typical government. Creating a solution to a problem they created to solve a problem they created.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:58 | 4385094 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Doing what you say isn't the sociopath way. They have engineered the system to confiscate whatever assets and wealth you have, either directly, indirectly, or through inflation/dollar collapse. They have no interest in helping you. No sociopath cares about anyone but themself. It's why the world is so fucked.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:01 | 4385421 Mercuryquicksilver
Mercuryquicksilver's picture

The worst parasites are the ones that keep the host just barely alive to suffer forever rather than just killing it off.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:49 | 4392980 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

war is peace

love is hate

saving is spending

Get with the program, Citizen.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:25 | 4385525 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"US government defaults and MyRA Ponzi collapses."

The US gov't has already defaulted. See that the Fed now holds 2.2 Trillion of US treasuries (~12% of all Federal Debt). MyRA is just another side con to keep Ponzi going a bit longer.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:39 | 4384991 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

"investors" to withdraw their funds."


Investors will be in FEMA camp.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:31 | 4392956 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Right. So that's why in this case Gov doesn't plan to vanish, investment flow can be forced by law by government, and a sharp decline requires outright rebellion - could be fighting back, could be suicide, refusing to make more babies who will be debt-slaves, etc.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:05 | 4384822 nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

what do you want to bet that this idea was originally floated to the administration by GS or JPM.  I am sure they have their hands on this somehow.



Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:54 | 4385080 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

absolutley. primary dealers of treasury debt. don't think for 1 second jamie and lloyd wont get their cut

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:04 | 4385434 mccvilb
mccvilb's picture

Doubleplusgood, citizen Debt. You get it. Not everyone can bellyful the beauty of blackwhite economic theory. Am I detecting a lot of crimethink here?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:48 | 4384725 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If anyone wants a truly risk-free savings account look me up and buy with confidence, 100% feedback.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:53 | 4384753 jcaz
jcaz's picture

"100% feedback"-  

That's precious-  dude, are you really THAT delusional?    You're statisically the leading douch on this site,  your numbers went past MDB awhile back......

Sorry, I can't click onto your link-  I have an IQ above 80.....

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:55 | 4384771 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Okay, I think I figured it out. Bitcoin is the new facebook.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:01 | 4384800 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If Facebook would incorporate a BTC trading platform or built-in BTC transfer system it would be a brilliant move on their behalf.  But they're establishment, NSA-friendly lap dogs so I doubt that.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:41 | 4392435 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

bitcoin is EXTRA friendly to the NSA.
The blockchain is public, banking records aren't.
You're doing their work for them.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:58 | 4384782 fonestar
fonestar's picture

How do you like your voluntary currency shoved down your throat?  At $800 or $80,000?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:52 | 4385069 Panem et Circus
Panem et Circus's picture

I don't normally enjoy reading the tireless bitcoin shills; however, I completely agree with your sentence above.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:08 | 4385146 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Nothing voluntary is ever shoved down your throat.

Nothing personal fonestar, but in my opinion (which counts for nothing) you're at best an early adopter trying to make bank, or at worst a contract propagandist. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:28 | 4385239 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Sure it is.  That is the nature of free market regulation.  Good luck finding a personal computer without an Intel processor, for example.  It has been shoved down your throat, because they have dominated the market.

You are just so used to being unter the arbitrary boot of the government that you have forgotten that there are non-arbitrary limits to what you can do even without a boot on your neck.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:51 | 4385598 Spanky
Spanky's picture

I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing.

Except this:

Who's technology does bitcoin depend upon?

Who holds patents that cover bitcoin?

For whom does that person work?

Now I've lived in the real world for a good long while. The people pumping bitcoin here sound more like believers than rationalists to me. Moreover, I know the answers to the three questions I posed, and understand what those answers add up to in the real world.

What bitcoin seeks to do is replace face to face, hand to hand transactions, with computer to computer transactions, whether they are face to face, or not. I realize we use the former on a daily basis, but only if we so choose. If bitcoin is adopted in the fashion its believers desire, there will be no choice.

And that is what makes bitcoin dangerous. Because any computer mediated transaction can be traced, archived and stored, nowithstanding bitcoin believers confused and conflicted denials to the contrary. Indeed, bitcoin technology actively embraces exactly that for every bitcoin -- the block chain. Bitcoin is, prima facia, not an anynomous medium of exchange -- yet that is exactly what its believers most loudly proclaim -- anynomous transactions.

You do whatever you want. My grandfather used to say that to me, usually right after giving me some advice. I found out pretty quick that Poppa's advice was valuable since he believed in suffering the consequences of your actions.

So I guess about the only question you could answer for me, on the topic of bitcoins, is:

Do you put your money where your mouth is?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:27 | 4392950 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

bitcoin is opensource. You can't patent what's open-source first because it's not original. You can't prove original ownership so you can't hold the patent.
As for dependancy: electric grids/power sources & communications grids.
Could be batteries, fuel cells, plug to the wall for nuclear, coal, biogas-burning etc. from turbines.
Comms could be radio, wires, laser-optic, any number of things.
Problem: just about no one who depends on bitcoin controls THOSE underlying technologies, infrastructure, whatsoever.

"Because any computer mediated transaction can be traced, archived and stored"
Not so. Anything encrypted & transfered directly from a wire to another computer / phone next to it is much more secure - unless your device itself has security problems, which many do, which is why I responsibly bring up the caveat.

"Indeed, bitcoin technology actively embraces exactly that for every bitcoin -- the block chain"
Indeed: we don't need a blockchain to validate purchases using dollars, silver coins or barter so why do we need one for digital currency? We don't. It's a huge flaw just for existing. The MANNER in which it exists, getting exponentially bigger to require full validation, is even worse, as that's a giant waste of computation & storage resources plus the communications OF it, always peer to peer downloading it.
I mean, at least if it was rsynch'd or something so differences were transmitted that could reduce the transit-time for the blockchain over time to many peers but that fails to negate the problem of it existing at all, and exponentially growing on top of that.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:55 | 4385802 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Who is still buying computers? While I just bought 3 servers with AMD processors, I don't have to buy any computers at all.

Apple mobile devices have Apple designed processors made by Samsung.

At least to a little reasearch before posting. Only government can create coercive monopolies.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:28 | 4385870 Confused
Confused's picture


Not so easy. Many apple products do actually use Intel. Soooooo. Not trying to be a dick. But a little research and all......

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 00:30 | 4386788 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I am a dick. Soo....trying to be a dick and all....go fucking read my original goddamed comment, and comprehend the explicit nature of "mobile devices"

I own an i-7 MacShit Pro. I am fully aware, thus my qualifier.

Have a nice fucking day. A little fucking goddamed research and all.

Fucking asshat.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:30 | 4385549 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Nothing voluntary is ever shoved down your throat.


Your throat and I am the volunteer.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 19:34 | 4385586 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Come on by then. You're welcome to try. Pack a lunch.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:06 | 4385440 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

This is the best comment of the day on ZH. +1000



Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:15 | 4392930 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

he's even better! Now he's the MillionFonerBoner!

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:53 | 4384777 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

Bear with me...this all comes together???

Japanese Yen hugely devalued in '13...and hit peak devaluation (so far) about Jan 1...Gold collapsed starting the same time and hit bottom as Yen hit peak devaluation.  So, Yen devaluation is short gold but long the phsyical metal.  But this trade is almost entirely played out as the physical @ these prices is nearly unavailable and so can no longer be paired up w/ a Yen  short paper gold w/ a corresponding long physical trade.

Comex deliverable gone from 3 million oz to 375 k oz in '13...GLD lost 570 of it's 1350 tons...LBMA pretty well cleaned out...all the non-mining scrap sales have collapsed...mining production flat at best and at/near/below the all-in cost of production and exploration, CapEx is shuttered...So available supply @ these prices is collapsing and assuming Yen devaluation continues unabated, soon (now???) the short gold trade in Yen will no longer have a correpsonding physical asset available with which to pair off long against.  Simply another 3%-5% Yen devaluation and nearly all available physical supplies are gone or unavailable (non-deliverable).  This is coming @ us is quite obvious and nearly every obvious trade is what are we looking at???  Is further Yen devaluation about to flip from a positive correlation to negative???  Or has Yen devaluation max'ed out (counter devaluations?)

So, are stocks bout to get clobbered as Yen game w/ matching phyz and long global equities over...which would mean the stock market bout to get clobbered...and safety is bonds and MyRA.  People will be thanking Jack and Big O for the "safety" they provided.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:57 | 4384787 pods
pods's picture

Careful what you tweet fone.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:09 | 4384843 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I thought the same thing.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 14:57 | 4384789 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is truly the most insane fucking thing I have ever heard of.

"We are talking about the waitress who is holding down two part-time jobs to support her kids; the recent graduate who landed a job but is grappling withstudent loans; the janitor who has never been given the chance to invest in a retirement account."

As if these people have two fucking nickels to run together. But let's say they do, literally have two nickels...

You will be able to start saving with an initial deposit of as little as $25 and contribute as little as $5 each payday.  If an employer chooses to participate (yeah right), contributions are made through automatic payroll deductions, making them hassle-free. 

Someone feel free to check my math because I am in a hurry...but a $25 starting value with $130 annual additions (26 pay periods x $5) compounded at 2% (7yr treasury roughly?) adds up to $995 in seven years. Maybe a few nickels more because I compounded annualy...but whatever.

This is a viable retirement plan being pitched? WTF??????

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:00 | 4384802 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Doc is right. Slippery slope to the real idea. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:11 | 4384853 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have a feeling Obama will explain MYRA sort of like this during his 3rd term.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:16 | 4384879 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

lol..Obama without the Telepromter style. Shiiiit. 

Donno Fonz...I read your rail comment yesterday....I am thinking these fuckers are going for it. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:23 | 4384911 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So basically the theory is what...the fed exits qe....or we get a black swan...the market tank tanks....and then whoever our dear leader is comes in and says If you had 100k in your 401k plan on Jan 1st 2014 we will restore your balance to 100k thanks to the fed printers...whose fault this all is, and the 100k will now go into this MYRA plan to be invested in treasuries back by .gov". By the way...the stock market has been completely eliminated since no one trusts it anymore. Maybe...I mean I used to think a bit like that.

How about this. I just thought of this now so forgive my lack of detail... How about a year from now when the SPY is up another 15% take these MYRA's and make a combination of 50% UST's and 50% SPY that the .Gov promises to make sure is 100% principal guaranteed....for a small fee payable for .gov insurance?


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:41 | 4384976 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

My thoughts were that they are looking for another market to mop up the shit. They already have a mop Mind you they will start small cleaning the easiest rooms first....and then move on until everybody is in the same dirty water. 

My point was and that they are after our retirement money...plain and simple. 

A market some point....lead people begging to be cleaned. 

FYI...they are rolling out the same sort of program in Canada...French Canada first. I find it curious that this Eureka moment is occuring at the same time. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:46 | 4385028 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I would not rule out the possibility you are right. As I said, I used to believe that much more than I do now. I mean look at the excruciating amount of effort they have expended to rig this market and get retail back into it, and they still have a ways to go...only to then pull the rug out again? I doubt it. I'm not saying it's possible that they somehow lose the handle on this and it ends up going that way. But I think that is a distant plan B. Plan A is we ramp this market higher and higher while firmly keeping the end of the gun pointed at the temple of the rest of the world to buy our Treasuries...which despite everything we read on here (ask Ham-bone) they seem happy to do.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:50 | 4385060 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Hey, thanks to you...I play the market at a different angle. No angle. Just FX. The going to go where it wants to. However, I think the focus is on fucking the American saver...once again.

The idea appeats to be catchy! The fuckers will fine tune it...but the games is set. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:56 | 4385087 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



The Fed has to sell all that shit it has been buying to someone. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:22 | 4385216 john39
john39's picture

but does it really?  'they' make the rules...  i can think of a number of ways they might get around this, none of them pretty for the average man.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:52 | 4385070 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Double post. Fuck me. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:14 | 4385177 Spanky
Spanky's picture



Double post. Fuck me. -- Grande Tetons


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:40 | 4385307 Spanky
Spanky's picture


I think the gun hand is begining to tremble. Economic dominance is within China's grasp. Military is coming if they succeed. Our pivot happened immediately after China shotdown a ballistic misslle on the Pacific test range. Putin's banking on Chinese lack of ambition beyond their borders, and his hand on their marginal energy tap. And, let's face it, the neo-cons are nothing if not oily. That's what made (and makes) Afghanistan so valuable (and Iran now that the Pakis can't be trusted) -- Caspian Sea oil. They want a pipeline terminus on the indian Ocean (lower shipping costs, bypasses already crowded facilities). By controlling the marginal price of energy (in dollars) in the far east, the neo-cons believe they can perpetuate their financial control of the world.

Which is a round-a-bout way of saying I agree with you.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 21:40 | 4386270 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

If the big players were to run up the prices of stocks to lure the retail players back in, would their game not be to sell the retail at a high price, then bottom it out, only to repurchase the same stock at the lower price. I mean someone's cash has been used to drive these prices up and even if it is Fed money, it has to be paid back, right? So use cheap borrroewed money to drive up prices, lure the chickens in to the pen, slam the door shut and go to plucking. Too simple?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:43 | 4385017 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Check this out Fonz:


They can only save up to $15,000 or thirty years then it goes to a private plan.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:52 | 4385053 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks for the link Doc. I wonder what "private sector" plan it gets rolled into...the one offered by Goldman or JPM...on that magical day that $5 biweekly earning 2% adds up to 15k.....

I wonder how fast they tie these MYRA's to people who did not sign up for Obamacare and then confiscate any contributions to pay the penalty that they avoided by not filing taxes.

They need to get me on the evil payroll fast so I can give them some good ideas.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:02 | 4385121 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

It is called AUTO ENROLLLMENT. Raping by proxy if your prefer.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:33 | 4385265 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

C'mon Fonz - this equity run is over...Fed tapering (less gross $) while margin debt is record and then some (extreme leverage) and earnings faltering...

All the buttons have been pushed and dials turned...this thing is going down again until somebody pushes the emergency stop button again.

Common folk will praise Big O for this "savior" he's offered them.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:04 | 4385123 SDShack
SDShack's picture

I was always wondering how the Fed could increase their treasury holdings from 30% to 51% and control the bond market, thereby neutralizing the bond vigilantes.... without continuing to expand QE. Hello MyRA. The nexus that completely obliterates any lines between the Fed, Treasury, and Primary Dealers. The perfect tri-fecta.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:07 | 4385147 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

There used to be a poster, Dime...who said this would happen in a roundabout way. Too bad he does not post anymore. Smart cookie. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:28 | 4385234 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Yeah, I remember him. He opened my eyes. It all makes sense when you start thinking that the real plan is to corner the bond market to make bond vigilantes powerless. They learned from the failures of the EU. There really is no limit to what these sociopath bankers can do then. The New Feudal World Order.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:33 | 4385270 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Too bad he is not here because I would love to read his take on a rug pull and a mop up. Cleaning house so to speak. 



Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:34 | 4386044 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

His take is 100% the opposite of the rug pull and mop up viewpoint. The total opposite. I'd expand on it further but there is so much to it, we'd be here for weeks. It's a shame he is no longer here. agree with him or not, this place needed him.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 21:34 | 4386256 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

I look at MyRA as a replacement for the SS surpluses that were buying up $300 to $ 500 B in Treasury's pre '08.  Now the non-marketable debt is $5 T but little to no growth on this side...nearly all growth in the debt has been on the public debt.  So MyRA would likely be a supplemental buyer of $250 B or so?  Nice but unless it gets really big, not gonna be a game changer.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 21:40 | 4386266 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If 7 people signed up for obamacare 3 people will open a Myra. This is going nowhere. Unless they make it mandatory that people buy less icrap and force them to buy a non interest yielding bond instead. It's a good way to start the zombie sheeple rebellion. 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 22:19 | 4386370 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

yeah, hard to see this as much more than symbolic absent the mandatory enforcement...that's all the SS surplus was as well...mandatory cash put in Treasury's.  But then again, look @ Obamacare, kinda going nowhere but wait, let's see if we get a stronger penalty or some mandatory push for folks into that...and then, how far behind is MyRA.  Of course these things seem to make no sense if they are an option, but if mandated they suddenly are very impactful.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:33 | 4392877 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Tax-payer rebellion means people know they are tax-payers.
Those who have little or no income don't think they pay taxes.
They pay for transactions but not on annual income.
They forget: in a police-state anyone, any time can be tapped for taxes.
It's called imprisonment whereby 100% of your actions are controlled, location & work output.
It's only a matter of time before the prison-industrial complex is easily combined with the big-pharma mafia to server the military industrial complex.
Americans will wonder how the Eastern-bloc countries in the USSR had it so easy.
Time's are a changin' - and yet - it's never different this time.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 20:49 | 4386095 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

another clue?


Without further reform of MMFs, our financial system will remain vulnerable to runs and instability, which are harmful for retail and institutional investors, businesses that need a reliable source of funding, the MMF industry, and the financial system as a whole.  We will seek broad input from the full range of stakeholders on how best to design further reforms. 

Four years after the instability of MMFs contributed to the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, with the failure of the SEC to act, the Council should now move forward with the tools provided by Congress.

Sincerely, Timothy F. Geithner

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:34 | 4392580 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Pretty sure a year from now the S&P500 will be between 800 and 1100.

I'm ready for it: 216-219 = C, last reading was 218.896, C = HVU 1/11 x SPY

x75 is 16,425 as seen in this chart

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:11 | 4384856 maskone909
maskone909's picture

have you all accepted that every warm breathing body is a form of collateralized debt? 

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:16 | 4384882 DontGive
DontGive's picture

"if myRA savers ever need to, they can withdraw their contributions tax-free, at any time."

If they had a myRA, they might have a nickle to rub. /sarc

By the way.. what idiot needed to point out "tax-free", how do you tax NIRP?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:30 | 4384954 Droel
Droel's picture

Is this like a tax loophole for the everyman?  You have your whole paycheck deducted into MYra and then withdraw from MYra tax free, anytime, like payday?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:57 | 4385091 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

Or how about money market 2.0?

Put your cash in, guranteed principle, get 2.0% APR, take it out when you need it.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 17:00 | 4385416 viahj
viahj's picture

i'm pretty sure that your payroll contributions will be post-tax.  they will not make the same mistake as with the 401(k).

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 18:31 | 4385756 harposox
harposox's picture

Correct, post-tax. Once it hits $15,000 it automatically rolls over into an IRA:

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:58 | 4385103 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

From hunt from red october

"Now how can the captain make is crew want to leave the sub???"

Analog From Jack Lew,

"Now how can we make J6P plow his life savings into a "MyIRA" ??? "

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:30 | 4384951 Blano
Blano's picture

Fonz FTW.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:41 | 4385005 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Shame is not a word used in DC

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:59 | 4392465 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

sure it is.
"Mr. Congress-critter, sir, there's still people protesting who haven't been shot or beaten into submission yet."
Feinstein: "hmm, that's a shame."

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 15:51 | 4385050 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

if i'm running a ponzi, and i can get $995 from 100 million people, well do the math.

every little bit helps.


Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:08 | 4385149 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

So let's take that 1000 over seven years figure.

# people fleeced x 1000 = revenue

10M people -> $10B
100M people -> $100B

So all this scheming over 1.25 months of QE?

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:43 | 4385331 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's enough to cover the hole left by the taper.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:48 | 4392449 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What hole? The first removal of 10 billion/month happened with a bulk buy covering 20 month's worth of 85 billion.
That's some "taper". The next 10 billion down from 75 to 65 billion/month... did another bulk buy go with that?
This movement is all on perception & COUNTING CARDS, seeing how many sheeple are IN. As soon as it appears no more sheeple are joining in the BTFATH-fest it's time to dump the fucker down & use insider trading for puts, margin-shorts & to cancel orders using the NASDAQ-control-z trick if it doesn't work out part of the time for the pay-masters.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:11 | 4385153 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

edit: dup.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:16 | 4385193 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Retirement plan for crackheds and mental midgets.

Thu, 01/30/2014 - 16:25 | 4385225 Droel
Droel's picture

He justifies it as he is pitching it over a $500 lunch tab.  Hey, somebody gots to pay for all this food!

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