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China, Japan, The Yasukuni Shrine, And The Confederate Flag

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Shannon Tiezzi via The Diplomat,

On Wednesday, the United Nations Security Council held an open debate on the theme of “war, its lesson, and the search for a permanent peace.” Under-Secretary General for Political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman, addressing the Security Council, laid out the core of the problem: “As we have seen repeatedly, fighting that ends without reconciliation – especially fighting inside States – is fighting that can, and often does, resume.” In the concept paper for the debate, Prince Zeid Ra’ad Zeid Al-Hussein of Jordan wrote that the UN could play a role in “forging a deeper reconciliation among ex-combatants … based on an agreed or shared narrative, a shared memory, of a troubled past.” A common interpretation of history, Zeid believes, helps smooth tensions between former enemies.

To those following the tensions between Japan and China (as well as South Korea), the implications are obvious.  As my colleague Ankit wrote, the UN debate became a stage for China, South Korea, and North Korea to criticize Japan’s handling of history. While the fighting between these nations ended almost 70 years ago, the process of reconciliation remains incomplete. The “deeper reconciliation” Zeid described, one based on “a shared memory of a troubled past,” has not yet emerged.

China and South Korea do have a “shared memory,” as shown by their comments during the UN debate. The problem, in their eyes, is that Japan “remembers” thing differently. When calling on Japan to “face up to history” or “admit mistakes,” as Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying did this week, what they really mean is that Japan should accept without reservation China and South Korea’s version of history.

Here’s the problem with that approach: it’s inevitable that each country will view its past from a more sympathetic (though not necessarily approving) perspective. Generally, each country acknowledges (more or less) that mistakes were made, but no one else understands better how those mistakes happened — the mitigating factors that humanize the decision-makers. For example, Chinese citizens, in general, have a much rosier idea of Mao Zedong’s rule than non-Chinese; they know he made mistakes but will often claim that Mao did the best he could with the historical circumstances he faced.

The current tensions in Northeast Asia have another analogue: the conflicted legacy of the U.S. Civil War. As in the Northeast Asia dispute, the major issue is how to appropriately remember the war — especially the Confederates, who fought on behalf of slave-owning states.

For example, is it appropriate for Richmond, Virginia, the former capital of the Confederacy, to have a statue of famed Confederate general Robert E. Lee in the heart of the city; for high schools in the South to be named after Lee and other Confederate generals, or even after the Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy, who was arrested (but never tried) for treason? And the ultimate symbolic issue, the subject of a televised debate on Newshour a few years ago — is it acceptable for Southerners (who may or may not have had ancestors fighting in the war) to fly the Confederate flag?

To many, the answer is obviously no — the Confederacy stands for slavery and all the horrors that went along with it. It symbolizes not only the oppression of an entire race, but the treason of splitting the country and provoking civil war. To fly such a flag is to intentionally celebrate those who caused untold pain and suffering to hundreds of thousands of Africans and African Americans.

To many others, though, the answer is just as obviously yes — while slavery was a terrible mistake, the Confederate soldiers were simply fighting to defend their homeland and deserve to be honored for their sacrifice. Under this line of thinking, the Confederate flag can be divested of its ties to slavery and simply honored as a symbol of Southern culture and heritage. Flying the flag has nothing to do with slavery; it symbolizes Southern pride.

In a similar way, some Japanese would argue that Yasukuni can be divested of its ties to war criminals and Japanese imperialism. In both cases, the problem is not so much a denial  of history (although extremists in both Japan and the American South have fringe theories alleviating their countrymen of all blame) but a unique interpretation of history by the average person that allows him or her to reject the mistakes of the past without rejecting national or regional pride. It’s easy to  frown upon this as Orwellian “doublethink,” but it’s common to all nations, races, and peoples. Judging it in others is easy; rooting it out in ourselves is another matter.

For those who shake their heads at how a 70-year old conflict is still riling up Northeast Asia, look at the U.S. 150 years later, and how it still hasn’t sorted out the legacy of the nation’s bloodiest war. Reconciliation doesn’t happen naturally with the passage of time. The shared memories and understandings that lead to reconciliation have to be nurtured by all sides of the conflict, and that takes both time and dedicated effort.

“Leaders need to set the example, not just in ceasing war-time rhetoric and ending the intentional promotion of grievances, but also by deeds of genuine cooperation and honest examinations of their own roles in conflict,” Feltman said at the UN debate. This clearly lays the burden of reconciliation on both sides. Not only do past aggressors need to honestly examine their roles in the conflict, but past victims must end the practice of parading their grievances. It’s tough to say which is more difficult, owning up to historical wrongs or letting them go. But both are equally necessary for the sort of reconciliation Northeast Asia needs.

That absolutely doesn’t mean that African Americans should embrace the Confederate legacy, or that Chinese and Koreans should accept Japanese politicians visiting Yasukuni. It does mean, though, that accusations and finger-pointing about past wrongs are not going to lead to present reconciliation. Indulging in such tactics doesn’t provide moral high ground; it shows an unwillingness to actually make things better.

Instead, solving the problem will take an honest conversation, not about history per se but about historical interpretations, and acknowledging of their power to wound even decades later. Right now, it’s impossible to imagine that conversation happening on an official diplomatic level, but it can just as easily take place elsewhere — in academia, or even in the comments section of articles like this one.

 

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Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:19 | 4390340 Hulk
Hulk's picture

WTF ???

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:25 | 4390361 National Blessing
National Blessing's picture

I live in Northeast Asia.  Abe's a maniac.  He dreams of empire.  Word.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:35 | 4390382 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

"In the last analysis our only claim to victory is that if we win the war we shall tell fewer lies about it than our adversaries. The really frightening thing about totalitarianism is not that it commits ‘atrocities’ but that it attacks the concept of objective truth; it claims to control the past as well as the future."
George Orwell
History is Written By the Winners

http://alexpeak.com/twr/hiwbtw/

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:50 | 4390616 Stackers
Stackers's picture

China and Japan can't reconcile because they are two different cultures with 1,000 years of fighting.

For the record there was no US civil war. There was a coup d'état by the Federal Gov against half of the States changing it from the United States of America to the United State of America

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:57 | 4390729 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Right now, it’s impossible to imagine that conversation happening on an official diplomatic level

Diplomatic level?? Better trying there than on zh - home to an endless stream of brain dead, dirt poor inbred morons who are bound to shit themselves at any mention of the confederate flag in less than glowing terms. 

The new zh fucking-with-the-clientele strategy? Tyler gets the inbreds drooling over Obama all day and then has a guest poster throw cold water in their faces at night. 'Tis a cruel world! 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 09:45 | 4391048 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

"StopLoss: ... except the blazen hatred of the confederate flag.."

I actually disagree with that characterization of the argument. While I do think the post is mildly empty, I will say that there is some truth to the fact that without reconcillation nothing gets solved. If anything it gets deeply engrained and worsened. The "North South" thing is still QUITE alive, I can assure you that. Although interestingly enough it has more aptly manifested less into borders and geographical areas and more with individuals (except in certain states). Interestingly enough the tide is definitely swinging more in the less/no federal government than the other way around. At least in my experiences...

I've now seen environmentalist wackjobs give up on their love for government solutions (as an example). Thats gotta say something.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:40 | 4391215 Doña K
Doña K's picture

To better your odds in a no win situation, move south of the Mason Dixon line.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:43 | 4392888 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Half a million men died fighting over slavery and "states rights".  It's a little more involved than environmentalism. There are some simple truths that people need to accept.

The south was wrong in defending the supposed right of the state to violate the rights of the individual.

The north was right to fight against that.  The lesser of two evils is that the north had to violate states rights to protect individual rights.

The slaves and slave owners are all dead now.  There is nobody alive who harmed anyone else (who would also have to be dead anyway).  There are no paybacks or bribes to be had now.  It is history.  Both sides fought hard but this time the winner was the correct side.  Both sides need to accept this.  Both sides need to wake up and realize we have bigger fish to fry than which dead people did what to whatever other dead people 150 years ago.  They need to figure out that what is important is who is doing what to them right now.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 10:29 | 4391110 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Better trying there than on zh - home to an endless stream of brain dead, dirt poor inbred morons who are bound to shit themselves at any mention of the confederate flag in less than glowing terms."

Troll much?

As a "brain dead, dirt poor, inbred moron", please entertain me with your insights on why the US government finally said nolle prosequi in the case of Jefferson Davis for "his treason" against it. And please don't say Johnson's amnesty, as that was meant to extricate it from the box Davis put it in at trial, not him from his box.

Then we can move on to the "diplomacy" of Reconstruction and the effects of that carpetbagging horror on "our reconciliation" and on why the South stayed, in your words..."dirt poor".

You're up, Mr.Suisse.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:02 | 4391165 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The author of this article clearly knows only what he/she was taught in the public schools and perhaps the revisionist universities. 

The assumption by the ill-educated is always that the common Confederate soldier fought "for" slavery, which is like saying the average Wehrmacht soldier in WW2 fought "for" the Holocaust.  Any examination of actual history shows how false those assumtions are.  Slavery WAS a component of the Confederacy, but only one of many that differentiated it from Yankeeland. 

The US Constitution granted limited power to the "federal" government, certainly did not prohibit member states from leaving, and most certainly did not authorize the scum sucking pig Lincoln to invade a sovereign foreign nation on her border, the Confederacy, anymore than it authorized him to invade Canada.  Virginia's written ratification of the Constitution includes a specific clause reserving her right to leave should she so choose.  Her membership in the "United States" was accepted with this proviso, so the moment Lincoln invaded Virginia he richly deserved the fate which awaited him.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:48 | 4391226 Chief Kessler
Chief Kessler's picture

We would have freed the slaves....eventually, no really, we were going to free them next year but then we figured out we'd have to do the work ourselves, or need immigrants who are not like us, scary, so we kept the slavery thing going, how'd that work out for y'all, still enjoying our legacy? I mean nice hospitality? Y'all come back

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 14:05 | 4391468 Slave
Slave's picture

If you really believe such obvious propaganda, what are you doing here?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:23 | 4391605 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

slavery was a gigantic sinkhole of lose.  why have slaves when you could pay freemen a wage and then have them go back to their hovels.  the problem was the ultra rich empowered slave-owners with the political clout kept the slavery issue in the forefront, small farm-owners could care less, they did not have the money for slaves and used the nearly universal concept of having huge families with lots of sons to work their land.  

 

because of events in haiti, and a number of plots uncovered or stopped that advocated wholesale slaughter of whites, the citizens of the south were concerned for their safety.  20% of the population were slaves and if they revolted as in haiti you would not be safe if your skin was white.  

 

in most cases, rabid abolitionist help to establish these plans.

 

with or without the civil war, slaves would have been freed.  the sharecrop system and other economic paradigm were direct evidence of some sort of plan.  if it had been manifested without a war the south would have had many more resources to allocate toward this transformation.

 

abraham lincoln planned to load all slaves onto boats and take them back to africa.  some plan.  slaves had been a part of our country since its founding, how would they possibly have lived if shipped back to some backward jungle.  slavery had been a part of human history for thousands of years and it was not just an institution set about to enslave black africans.  someone else on this thread brought up a point that the us congress could have outlawed slavery in all states, giving financial restitution to their owners.

 

then the owners of the land could employ the freed slaves according to their skills. i know this sounds trite, but it was a transformation that was going to take place civil war or not.  being a sharecropper in the period of reconstructon was probably more precarious and brutal than slavery if the truth were the object of a rational discussion of the issue of slavery, since sharecroppers were both black and white the history of this nasty era are mostly ignored.

 

history is nasty and brutal,  if you do the slightest digging around in it.

 

so when i remember my ancestors that fought the union i don't attach the nasty institution and brutal existance of humanity to their memory.  i remember that they defended their state, their family, and their property against a lawless and tyrannical government that invaded them to subjugate them, and i am very very proud that they did, and that against all odds and the loss of everything that they held dear,they charged the guns on malvern hill,  they stood in the sunken road at antietam, they overran hazel grove at chancellorsville,  they routed the federals at gettysburg and drove them onto cemetery hill.  they held off a corp of the union army all by themselves at the wilderness,  they drove hancocks troops out of the bloody angle at spotsylvania and held out for 20 hours, and they fired the last shots of the war at appomattox with bryan grimes in command. ramseur was killed in the valley.

sorry for the trip down memory lane, but they were usually outnumbered at leat 4 to 1, with inadequate food and equipment, hundreds of miles from home, cold and starving some of the time, but they held within them that men should not be subservient to government and should defend themselves against it like their fathers and grandfathers did against the british.

 

i hope if the time comes many of us here can find within us that seed of honor, of character, of total willful sacrifice to fight off the chains that attempt to bind us all, of all colors for i fear that time is coming.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:29 | 4391624 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

slavery was a gigantic sinkhole of lose. why have slaves when you could pay freemen a wage and then have them go back to their hovels.
_______________________________________________________________________

Rewriting history. 'American' past time.

'Americans' did not want to work certain jobs (sounds familiar?) When paid, they left and sometimes escaped to live with the Indians.

'Americans' needed a captive population that could not flee. One of the reasons they took negroes as slaves (after trying the Indians who could flee to their tribes)

For 'americans' to get the possibility of paying freemen, 'americans' had to be ready to endure the pits of the work their slaves made.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:33 | 4391733 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

rewriting history, first educate yourself in the history of europe, middle east, etc.  then use logic and rational to come to a conclusion, refrain from personal bias and use hard objective observations of both sides of a source.

 

emotion has no place in the interpretation of history.

 

that is why liberalism as it has manifested itself in todays world are the revisionist and not the other way around.

 

logic is not emotion, so educate yourself and have an intelligent discorse, or just make post on a thread that reveal your limitations.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:47 | 4391754 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Ladies and gentlemen, presenting a fine example of the deep irrationality contained within the human brain:

so when i remember my ancestors that fought the union i don't attach the nasty institution and brutal existance of humanity to their memory.  i remember that they defended their state, their family, and their property against a lawless and tyrannical government that invaded them to subjugate them, and i am very very proud that they did, and that against all odds and the loss of everything that they held dear

And then this happened:

use logic and rational to come to a conclusion, refrain from personal bias and use hard objective observations of both sides of a source.

* Slow clap * For an impressive ability to completely contradict oneself within two comments, you get the gold star!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:06 | 4391921 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

what are you blathering on about. when you equate an answer about one question with the answer to a completely different and dissassociate topic into a contradiction it only shows your trolling and shilling ability, a shallow attempt to twist logic like a pretzel to prove some idiotic conception of contradiction.  

 

i bet what came first, the chicken or the egg makes you have nosebleeds.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:08 | 4392092 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

when you equate an answer about one question with the answer to a completely different and dissassociate topic into a contradiction

Right, writing a completley one-sided opinion based on personal bias and then complaining about others doing exactly that (within the same thread!) is totally unrelated lol

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:41 | 4393474 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Rewriting history. 'American' past time.

All too true. American citizen history rewritement is mere hobbyist dabblings, minor league stuff. Will never measure up to the masterful creations of accredited experts like AnAnonymous. He was awarded a ChD* in creative history for his antichronic thesis on the sinking of Easter Island by George Washington and King Henry VIII in 1276.

American citizenism unproficiency in this field will always be lacking in grip when compared to such intrinsicate specialisty.

 

*Doctor of Charlatanry

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:09 | 4391262 machineh
machineh's picture

'Flying the [Confederate] flag has nothing to do with slavery; it symbolizes Southern pride.'

Utterly patronizing ... like claiming that Obama 'symbolizes African-American pride.'

What the Confederate flag symbolizes is political sovereignty and the right to secede from an oppressive central government, which has demonstrated its willingness to slaughter without limit to prevent its human livestock from escaping its grasp.

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:11 | 4391266 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Spot on.

"The assumption by the ill-educated is always that the common Confederate soldier fought "for" slavery, which is like saying the average Wehrmacht soldier in WW2 fought "for" the Holocaust."

I know mine didn't. He fought because his home state was invaded, rose to the rank of sergent, wounded, was busted down for AWOL (left to guide his nephew through another state) and was back in it until captured around Petersburg.

A contractural arrangement entered into voluntarily by two or more parties (in this case the individual states and a central government) is only as good as all parties willingness to keep to the terms of the contract. From the seed of 3/5ths of a person compromise at inception (proposed by two yankees, shocking I know...lol) through the trade war-like attack on southern ports (Tariff Act of 1828 to protect northern business) it was brewing for a long time.

But yeah, according to Swissy up top, the South is filled with "inbred, dirt poor, morons" who apparently can't read or comprehend what they have read (outside of government indoctrination camps, er um, public schools & universities) and its why having a fanatically, paranoid, tyrannical, federal government spying, lawmaking, mandating, restricting & taxing the living shit out of anything that is left moving is just really all in our own best interests...as a people and a society.

Its for our own good you see, cuz, Obama or some shit.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:06 | 4391576 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"The assumption by the ill-educated is always that the common Confederate soldier fought "for" slavery, which is like saying the average Wehrmacht soldier in WW2 fought "for" the Holocaust."

Uh no, it is not like that at all. 

I know mine didn't. He fought because his home state was invaded, rose to the rank of sergent, wounded, was busted down for AWOL (left to guide his nephew through another state) and was back in it until captured around Petersburg.

Yeah, I'm sure if we looked at each soldier who fought in the civil war we could find a multitude of reasons for why they were in it. Same goes with any war. Gawddamn..

the South is filled with "inbred, dirt poor, morons" who apparently can't read or comprehend what they have read 

No, just some folks who have a 'special' reverence for the confederate flag and pretend that the civil war was not about slavery and then rant about black people destroying America... These people are probably 10-- 15% of the American population and 50% of zh commentators.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:00 | 4391902 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ok, since you prefer to reply to a comment I made to someone else (while choosing to disregard my direct comment to you) I can assume you don't know WTF you're talking about, historically.

But I'm gonna lay something on you thats probably going to distress you quite a bit, the "battle flag" (which is what you seem to have a major problem with) has as much to do with regional identity as it does with the war. There are families of black Southerners too ya know and they don't look at it through the foggy propaganda glasses that you do.

So tell me, ace, if the war was "mostly about" slavery...explain the text of the Emancipation Proclamation, concentrating especially on where (geographically) Lincoln would allow slavery to continue.

Where it would continue is where the Union armies were currently in control, wasn't it?

Awww shucks, Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, had issued a paper, eagerly read but rarely understood by "dirt poor, moronic, inbreds" living half way around the world, in Switzerland ;-)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:17 | 4392077 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 

So tell me, ace, if the war was "mostly about" slavery...explain the text of the Emancipation Proclamation, concentrating especially on where (geographically) Lincoln would allow slavery to continue.

Where it would continue is where the Union armies were currently in control, wasn't it?

Total straw-man. Where did I bring up Lincoln or the emancipation proclamation? The northerners get a relatively free pass, sure, but that’s irrelevant to my comments on the confederate lovers. 

Lincoln had other motives, but one of the primary motivators for the confederate states was slave ownership.

Taking your nazi example from elsewhere, would be equally ridiculous for people flying the nazi flag today to say it's only about representing freedom / independence from evil banker oppressors, nothing to do with anti-semitism man!! How dare you even claim such a thing!

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:32 | 4392135 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Strawman, reeeeelly?

"No, just some folks who have a 'special' reverence for the confederate flag and pretend that the civil war was not about slavery and then rant about black people destroying America."

You've attempted to build enough strawmen about blacks on this thread to go into business selling them to the useful white "progressive" idiots on the streets of NYC, Boston & San Fran. Where did I (or anyone here) say "black people" are destroying America?

You've not factually countered one thing thats been said, so cling to whatever strawmen you care to construct about the magnificent, saintly and virtuous acts of the US federal government & its NE business interests (and foreign governments before even that) bringing slavery to these shores.

Just don't expect me to buy them from you and hang it around the South's neck.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:53 | 4392188 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"No, just some folks who have a 'special' reverence for the confederate flag and pretend that the civil war was not about slavery and then rant about black people destroying America."

You've attempted to build enough strawmen about blacks on this thread to go into business selling them to the useful white "progressive" idiots on the streets of NYC, Boston & San Fran. Where did I (or anyone here) say "black people" are destroying America?

You inferred something incorrect so I clarified who my comments were directed at. Others on this exact thread have referenced black folks as a meance and do so frequently on zh - don't know why racist morons always feign innocence. 

so cling to whatever strawmen you care to construct about the magnificent, saintly and virtuous acts of the US federal government & its NE business interests 

Nope, never said any of this. The argument you are trying to construct - and is common with this subject - is to divert away from one set of assholes by pointing out that others are also assholes. Let's say for point of argument that Lincoln was a pro-slave tyrant - doesn't change shit about the confederates being pro-slavery.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:30 | 4392402 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"You inferred something incorrect so I clarified who my comments were directed at."

I inferred nothing that was incorrect. You copied a quote that I was responding to from SWR about Wermacht/Southern equivalency, which is preposterous. 

"Let's say for point of argument that Lincoln was a pro-slave tyrant - doesn't change shit about the confederates being pro-slavery."

Lets say, for a point of argument (because this is actually what happened) that the US government set up an unsustainable economic & political system that benefited it and its cronies and everything was fine until the South realized the trap it was in and withdrew from it. Lincoln didn't give a damn about blacks, he said so on more than one occasion, so that strawdog won't hunt either. If he had to destroy half of "the Union" in order to "save it" he was willing to do it...and he did it, which certainly qualifies him as a tyrant.

Now, how you get to 50% of ZH commenters are "racist" (apparently because they are Southern in your high brow estimation?) is still a little beyond my "dirt poor, inbred, moronic" comprehension when only a small minority of "confederates" actually owned slaves. My kin had large families in order to work their fields.

And I've always wanted ask (now that I've got your attention) what is your occupation...in Switzerland?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:44 | 4392620 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

the South is filled with "inbred, dirt poor, morons" who apparently can't read or comprehend what they have read 

Not to beat a dead horse, but this inference was wrong. 

Lets say, for a point of argument…

You go on to restate my point more elaborately, don’t see what it adds. 

Now, how you get to 50% of ZH commenters are "racist" (apparently because they are Southern in your high brow estimation?) 

I doubt 50% of ZH commenters are southern - not to suggest all southerns are racist either, I know you’re sensitive on this. 

only a small minority of "confederates" actually owned slaves

…but did a majority support the right to owning slaves?

And I've always wanted ask (now that I've got your attention) what is your occupation...

I flip burgers at McDonalds.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 13:27 | 4391394 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Leave it to a Virginian from the capital of the Confederacy to actually know their history surrounding the War of Northern Aggression and the coalition of states called the United States at that time. Well spoken SW.

Also mark my words that you have not seen the last of the "Southern Cross". Those who stand against the growing monster and power grabbing sons a bitches know as the federal government will once again fight under the colors of the South before the time comes for me to leave this earth.

There are very few in the US that have not only the weaponry but the ammunition to oppose the "Dept of Homeland Security" or whatever Jack-boot govt thugs and their millions if not billions of rounds of ammo stored to be used against their own citizens. Most, although not all, of the few prepared for this fight happen to live in the South.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:24 | 4391611 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The assumption by the ill-educated is always that the common Confederate soldier fought "for" slavery, which is like saying the average Wehrmacht soldier in WW2 fought "for" the Holocaust. Any examination of actual history shows how false those assumtions are. Slavery WAS a component of the Confederacy, but only one of many that differentiated it from Yankeeland.
_________________________________________________

You have to give in to 'americans': their will to avoid facing the fact this is an 'american' world, that the world stage is where it is because of their efforts drives them to back off from no manipulation.

The status of slavery compared to the status of the holocaust? Really? With nothing less than any examination of actual history?

The common 'american' who fought on the side of the confederates was well aware of slavery as it was perpetuated by his society. As it was known that 'americans' claimed that human beings had unalienable rights (which forced 'americans' to keep the face to claim that negroes were not human beings)

That is the historical situation. People were not ignorant of slavery as it was practised in the US. And people knew the 'american' creed.

The german soldier had knowledge of the holocaust? The common soldier? during the war?

That is the kind of gross manipulation 'americans' are willing to get into. That is where 'americanism' leads people who adopt it.

Funnily enough, 'americans' on this site like to picture themselves as tough people who can take the state of the world as it is, who do not need lies to sleep well at nights.
That is another 'american' truth as brought by 'american' truthers.

They cant even take the fact that 'americanism' rymes with slavery. So they have to claim that the confederates ignore slavery as the german soldier ignored the holocaust.

Welcome to an 'american' world.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:44 | 4392019 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I think I see the point you were trying to make but you have totally missed mine on several levels.  

no doubt the common Confederate soldier new of the existence of slavery as it had existed as long as he could remember in the area where he lived.  no doubt some of them accepted it as normal and no doubt at least some saw it for what it was.  there is also no doubt in my mind that the average Confederate soldier did not have defense of the institution of slavery in his mind when he marched of the battle, not ever.  

I do not accept your assertion that the common Wehrmacht soldier did not know of the camps and the rounding up of the undesirables, of their movement on trains.  Their being rounded up and shot shot when transport was not available.  I am equally sure that most if not all would deny knowledge.  perhaps this last is hopeful but I also do not believe that the common Wehrmacht soldier marched off to  battle in defense of the Holocaust

whether or not Americanism rhymes with slavery frankly remains to be seen.  I have for decades consideredthe modern so-called democracies to be advanced new-model plantations were the slaves believe they're free.  

and you can blame me for that because I haven't been able to fix that yet either.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:32 | 4392296 corndog
corndog's picture

I agree.  Spoon fed public school info in action here.  5% of the Southern population even had slaves. So it's ridiculous to say that the other 95% fought for slavery. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:01 | 4391252 booboo
booboo's picture

James Col(e)ostomy bag: Why don't you edjukate us'in poor southern toofless hicks on the cause of the Civil War, (the souths unwillingness to be the tax collector for the Feds, ie, Morrill Tariff)  the Great Emmancipator Abe, his true thought about the African Slave issue (he supported the Fugitive Slave Act) and to what lengths he went to insure that his detractors (including federal judges) in the north were silenced (or do we need to go there since it is common knowledge to even the dumbest of carpet baggers). Do tell? or do you have just enough government supplied misinformation to make a fool of yourself....again.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:50 | 4392894 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I think this is maybe a first.  I kind of agree with your sentiment.  I'm tired of both the knuckle-draggers and the the-Jews-did-every-bad-thing-in-history types.  These people are upset about the Federal Gov't defending individual rights instead of states rights during the civil war (that's what it boils down to boys and girls).  In their next post they will say that Obama or the bankers are tyrants.  There's a word, starts with an "h"...

Maybe this place is infected with disinformation spreading trolls who play it mostly one way but use one or two arguments to open the door to .gov being .daddy.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:34 | 4393218 someoneelse
someoneelse's picture

Except that ol' Honest Abe wasn't so honest about his motives: he wasn't waging war for individual rights versus states rights, he was waging war for Federal supremacy over the states -- the individual rights argument helped the medicine go down in Yankeeland.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:58 | 4393507 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

That could be claimed if the north actually started the shooting but they didn't.  The south started it.  Lincoln responded.  When attacked it is appropriate to respond in spades and if you are going to fight you need to fight to win.  The single most immoral thing about war is losing. 

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:13 | 4390977 daemon
daemon's picture

" China and Japan can't reconcile because they are two different cultures with 1,000 years of fighting. "

Well, it really depends on what you mean by "different cultures" .

And after all, it seems that the warring states in China shared more or less the same culture. In Japan, that were apparently "states" with more or less the same culture, that kept fighting each other incessantly, between the 15th and 17th century. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:00 | 4391251 Chief Kessler
Chief Kessler's picture

Dear Sirs,

Please cancel my subscription to Redneck CircleJerk Illustrated. The following commentary below should be ample evidence for a full refund.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:10 | 4391264 booboo
booboo's picture

Here we go again, always wanting someone else to do your job, cancel your own damn subscription you lazy fuck.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 13:13 | 4391372 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Then why do you subscribe?  Could it be that you prefer the redneck circle jerk over the phony worship of that MLK pervert and fraud?

Many slaves preferred their condition before Abe, who proved his wisdom when he tried to send all the blacks back to Africa where they belong.

Abe "freed" the "slaves" (who had been sold to the southern plantation owbers by their neighboring tribes) so they could become slaves on the Federal Government plantation. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:33 | 4391629 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Africa is a large place.

Indo Europeans populationg 'America' wont want to return even when knowing where they come.

And negroes should have returned to Africa as they belonged there?

'American', 'american'...

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:55 | 4392334 akak
akak's picture

 

Africa is a large place.

The natural resources of which rapacious Chinese Citizenism is blobbing-up en masse even as we speak.

But hey, the 21st century is the century of Chinese Citizenism, right?

To the victurds belong the spoileds.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:56 | 4393512 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Another lesson served for the delusionals on this board but the first projects of Chineses in Africa is construction of roads and roadsides.

Cannot posture surprise when the completion of these interests are compatible with the Chinese citizenish situation. Go figure.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:01 | 4391254 nooyawka
nooyawka's picture

There IS NOT a thousand year history of war between China and Japan. The Chinese have never, ever initiated a war against Japan. The Mongols conquered China and tried to conquer Japan also, but the kamikaze (divine wind) stopped them (twice). The Japanese fought China in the 20th century, but never, ever before then.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:50 | 4391345 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Well, except for the FIRST Sino-Japanese war of 1895...but I guess they don't teach that one in schools anymore.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:07 | 4391260 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Actually, it was from " These United States" to "the USA", but you got the point. Abraham Lincon, a bloody abolitionist despot.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:16 | 4391704 markovchainey
markovchainey's picture

Correction:  Abraham Lincoln, a bloody racist despot.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:36 | 4392879 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Nothing to add about Japan and China except enemies tend to remain enemies until one or the other is defeated conclusively by the other.

----------------------

On the Civil War

Would you argue that individual rights are outweighed by states rights?

The US Gov't was wrong to violate states rights.

States were wrong to violate individual rights.

The US Gov't was right to secure the rights of individuals from the depredations of other individuals under the protection of the states (even if poorly executed).

If individual rights are more important than states rights then the southern states owe us all a huge apology.  First they were willing to see half a million men cut down in the prime of their lives for the right of a few to own and abuse many others simply because they were different.  Besides actively resisting granting individual rights to all, equally, even after losing the war and surrendering, they perpetuate the myth of states rights and coup conspiracies even to this day.  They (the southern states) are the very reason states rights were so justifiably gutted.  You idiots (yelling back in history too)!  You couldn't pick a valid issue on which to defend states rights?  You sure didn't do it during Vietnam.  You didn't do it when the Federal Reserve came into being in 1913 either.  STFU when you want to say something about the Civil War.  I just gave you the super quick version.  Most people know enough to completely discredit you and others like you when you spout your nonsense. 

Back to today

The Federal Gov't is rotten.  The Mil-Ind complex is rotten.  The banks are rotten.  The corporations are rotten.  Lawyers and judges are rotten.  The national government (effectively all of the above) is out of control.  We desperately need states rights now.  Don't go and blow it again by dragging the completely invalid idea that the state has the right to disregard individual rights.  Anyone who does that is a fool and deserves their own personal defeat.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:38 | 4390497 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I certainly hope ZH did not pay for this post..

An empty post, except the blazen hatred of the confederate flag..

 

Typical.  The blacks have constructed their own prison, in which they will dwell forever...

They simply cannot exist without it, or the constant spread of misery. Their own worst enemy.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:37 | 4390598 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar loves the stars and bars... it's a perennial symbol of rebellion.  The social engineering libtards don't hate that flag because of anything to do with slavery, they hate it because it serves as a reminder that if we don't like our government we can tear it down and build our own.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:50 | 4390611 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Fuck you.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:50 | 4390614 fonestar
fonestar's picture

No buck you!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:51 | 4390619 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, fuck you.  You can't even say it because you are in China.  Fucktard.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:53 | 4390622 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is in China?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:57 | 4390625 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Fonestar in China.   So say the fuck word, not in china star.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:57 | 4390638 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm pretty sure fonestar is in western Canada, where he has always been (stuck).

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:12 | 4390640 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.  Care to comment?  Come on BitStar.  Say the fuck word and prove me wrong.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:48 | 4390717 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you able to say "fuck" yet, or still awaiting permission?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:12 | 4390750 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You know that you don't get to enjoy your stacks of gold, silver or Bitcoin if you go crazy, freak out and die in a fire before things blow up, right?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:20 | 4390756 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Is that a threat, other ChinaBot?  Fuck you and the fucking bitcoin horse you rode in on.  You fuck.  For fuck's sake, any idiot could see what you are doing here.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:55 | 4390803 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Wow. Someone got out of bed on the wrong side thismorning.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 06:51 | 4390934 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Well, that was fight club if I ever saw it.LOL

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:43 | 4392164 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I think that was fuck club which is slightly different from fight club.

Miffed;-)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:19 | 4391808 Doña K
Doña K's picture

I never thought that I would upvote fonestar, but did as long as your religion is not mentioned in your posts.  (B****n)

Dont hit back I could not resist.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 04:00 | 4390843 Droel
Droel's picture

d

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:52 | 4390623 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Hi baby. I missed you, how've you been.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:56 | 4390631 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Well that tends to confirm my conspiracy theory that you would chime in now.  Fuckhead.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:59 | 4390639 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Nobody is looking for you or at you babe,  I was here before you came in.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:00 | 4390641 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What the fuck does that mean?  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:05 | 4390648 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

There's no conspiracy to get you moron.   It's all in your egotistical little progressive head.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:08 | 4390655 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Douche on.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:14 | 4390660 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

What happened, he left without saying goodbye?  Why are you so pissed today?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:20 | 4390667 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You say goodbye, I say hello.  Fucker.  Say "fuck" and I will only think you are an idiot instead of just thinking you are an asshole.  Say it.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:30 | 4390686 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I thought you already said goodbye to ZH.  Should I link your post?  Your word means shit so it's not a surprise.  The left is losing their mind folks?  You're seeing it here.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:32 | 4390692 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Say fuck and prove me wrong Chinabot.  Oh, and go FUCK yourself you FUCK.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:35 | 4390695 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You really are certifiable.  I give you 6-12 months tops before you take the pipe.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:44 | 4390696 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Just say it.   One word.  Need to run it up the flagpole first?  Fucking cunt fuck.  Say the word "fuck" here.  Just throw it in.  Slave.

I wonder how many hours it will be before you are given permission to say "fuck" to prove me wrong?  Fuck.  I would feel sorry for you, but you signed up for this.  So FUCK YOU.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:48 | 4390715 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Bitch rant.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:50 | 4390720 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you able to say "fuck" yet?  It's early morning in China.  Perhaps you will receive permission later.   

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:58 | 4390733 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I cant.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:05 | 4390741 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You meant to say "I cunt." 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:34 | 4390773 prains
prains's picture

****epic****

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:44 | 4390774 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Now I'm offended.  I wish you would stop cursing.  And fuck you too Prains, you're another little fucking homo lib gib.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:47 | 4390789 prains
prains's picture

***clueless***mouthbreather***childpornleftover***titswinging***bocabluehair***

 

time for a rinse....LOL

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:48 | 4390793 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Smart, not.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:51 | 4390800 prains
prains's picture

that was a 4 putt, back to the practice green for Yu!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:56 | 4390802 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Whatever genius, I wouldn't hire you to shine my shoes.  Maybe I'd hire your sister to polish my knob.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:44 | 4392441 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Well, that was fun, wasn't it?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 05:38 | 4390885 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

read more, he was proving/disproving his little theory that Chinese Intelligence operatives posting on ZH are not allowed to curse without permission

to which I grant myself permission to utter an amicable FUCK YOU BOTH. your opinions are imo interesting yet you are spamming too much your little hate-love. get a room

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 10:53 | 4391149 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Amen, brother.  An oh, by the way: fuck.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:47 | 4392778 prains
prains's picture

Fuck a banger.....they comply

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:56 | 4390630 Dr. Destructo
Dr. Destructo's picture

Finally, someone who understands the true meaning of the south.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:01 | 4390644 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar feels bad for the south, they've been maligned not just in the United States but Canada and all over the place too. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:04 | 4390646 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you Bob Dole?  Bob Dole likes pencil.  Pencil llikes Bob Dole.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 14:06 | 4391467 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

My first +1 for you.  I'll be damned.  I actually may agree with you on some things.  Go figure.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:21 | 4392380 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

outside the subjugation of blacks in America's slavery & the constant "law" enforcement subjugation that followed, it appears not to be the case.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's an entire CONTINENT full of black people that don't act like blacks in America.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:34 | 4390377 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Agree. WTF? 

  KAMPO and Mrs. Watanabe.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 10:37 | 4391120 chemystical
chemystical's picture

The analogy between 1) Japan's shrine and China, and 2) The Confederate flag and the USA is false.

Japan invaded China and raped and murdered and brutalized the Chinese.  Now the Japanese want the Chinese to overlook its state-sanctioned glorification of war criminals.  (Several parallels in modern ISR by the way - not only to the government's crimes but also to the government's sanctioning the pilgramages to the shrines of private citizens  - for example Baruch Goldstein who murdered 29 Arabs within full view of and with the assistance of ISR soldiers...if you believe the testimony of multiple ISR soldiers who witnessed it).

The CSA did not invade, rape, and brutalize the North. Quite the opposite.  Ft Sumpter was in South Carolina (a CS), and the government of South Carolina told them to get their troops out.  The North refused.  Re rape and murder and looting by the North you need look no further than Sherman whose own brutality is well-documented but who also turned a blind eye to some of his generals' who actually advocated rape and murder and looting along the march.

(Speaking of ISR, the Japanese need to hire the Jews as consultants on the subjects of public relations and how to construct memory holes)

 

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:26 | 4390360 runswithscissors
runswithscissors's picture

there was no "civil war" there was only the war against the northern agression & tyranny

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:55 | 4390527 overexposed
overexposed's picture

Against the northern banking elite, ironically enough.

Too bad they imported enough Europeans to "win" -- and with it, to burn forever the Declaration of Independence.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:23 | 4390571 Bomp
Bomp's picture

Here, here! The War of Northern Aggression, or The War Between the States,  as we call it down here in Dixie.

 

Screw Abe Lincoln and his unconstitutionality...

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 08:38 | 4391005 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

And why does it always have to be about the blacks?! As if they were the only force those mean ole' Southereners were fighting for. And as if there were no slaves in the northern states! And as if the soldiers in the Yankee army gave a flying fuck about what happened to Southern blacks!

Does anyone else remember that there were tens of thousands of Southern blacks who fought among the Confederate ranks, defending their homeland against Lincoln the Terrible, side by side their white masters, in some cases, and in other cases in their own black regiments?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:14 | 4391161 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"Does anyone else remember that there were tens of thousands of Southern blacks who fought among the Confederate ranks"

Does anyone remember that there were slave states in the North during the war?  (Kentucky, Missouri, Delaware, and Maryland held over 400K slaves)

Does anyone remember this timeline: 1) some Northern states have an "epiphany" and realize that slavery is wrong, so they abolish slavery and... 2) ....sell their slaves to the South (rather than freeing them), and 3) the North invades the south, and claims (later) that its motivation was to free the slaves.

Does anyone remember that the 'sacred' Emancipation Proclamation was issued during the war and purported to "free" the slaves in the south?  As hollow a proclamation as was ever made.  Might well as "freed' the slaves in Brazil and Cuba.  (Brazil by the way held nearly 40% of the world's African slaves [world: incl africa itself], and it didnt end slavery until 1888, but the USA is somehow the Simon Legree of the world.  Less than 5% of all slaves were in all of North America.  Tiny Cuba held more).

Does anyone remember that it neglected to free the status of the slaves in the North?  (Do many of the addlepated Americans realize that there were 2 Emancipation Proclamations?  No, they instead refer to it as a singular thing and genuflect when saying "The" Emancipation Proclamation). 

That's not even a memory hole; it's just plain ignorance due to indoctrination and propaganda.  The truth doesn't fit in very well with either the script or the agenda.  Now rush out and chant "All hail the omnipotent and sacred federal goverment."

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 12:12 | 4391268 machineh
machineh's picture

Then the yankee fedgov had another epiphany, broke its treaties with native Americans, frog-marched them to reservations where many starved, and their descendants live in poverty today.

Message: we care!

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:20 | 4391294 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

It's a whole lot closer to the truth to say the southern States seceded because of THE TARIFF which was crippling their economy, than to say they seceded over slavery.

That was the motive for secession. The motive for Mr. Lincoln's War, on the other hand, was something else.

On a related topic, slavery was ended primarily due to obsolescense, with the arrival on the scene of McCormack's reaper and Eli Whitney's cotton gin. Slaves weren't needed any more after that; and pretty much all of Western Civ. ended slavery within its ubrella by the turn of the 20th century. (Slavery still existed well into the 21st century in parts of Africa, by the way.) High-brow intonations to the benevolence of northerners, and the abstract moral justifications for ending slavery fall flat, in view of the real-world forces at work.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 09:18 | 4391021 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Amazing how the civil war was blamed on 'slavery' in the south....but yet the Emancipation Proclomation of 1863 (which by the way was an Executive Order...not law under the constitution or Congress and directly challenged the Dred Scott decision upheld by the Supreme Court....yet I digress) was only to fee slaves held in Southern states once they were able to join union forces...

So, let's review. There was a law allowing slavery. It's constitutionality was upheld by the Dred Scott decision in the Supreme Court. The President ursurped power during the war year by signing an Executive Order the went directly against the the Supreme Court......yet, somehow, the South was wrong about this?

The war wasn't against for slavery...it was against Tyranny and rights under the law (why so many poor people fought in it)...

 

-Remember this fact...the history books are written by the victors....

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 09:52 | 4391062 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

There was a compromise when the constitution was ratified. The north accepted the South's right to own slaves despite the all men are created equal vow.

The South and North expected to be treated equally.

Then as new states were formed, the south wanted these states accepted as slave states

The Supreme court agreed that new states could have slaves when they ruled so in the Dred Scott decision

Abraham Lincoln pointed out that slavery which was accepted as a necessary evil by the founding fathers now could not be voted down by existing northern states and new territories

But he also described the difficulty that immigrant farmers woul have competing with slave owning plantations in the corn belt of Nebraska and Kansas

So when the new immigrant Americans saw their hopes and dreams becoming subject to the Southern Aristocracy they agreed to fight. For they could still recall the Bonapartes, Hapsburgs, and Bismark royalty and there adventures at the expese of the common man.

Today the common man is made promises by both the Republican and Democratic ruling class that they have nothing to fear because a new program will take care of their wants and needs -- even legaly taxed dope.

The Arisocat Southerners made no such promises.

They at least were truthfull. Their future saw no use for immigrant farmers. Today the intellectual ancestors of these Southern Aristocrats are liars.

 

 


Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:29 | 4390370 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

If reconciliation was the goal, maybe.  But it isn't.

 

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:32 | 4390373 sangell
sangell's picture

The US Civil War was resolved! It has been resurrected in recent years by the emergence of the Black Grievance Industry which cannot let the past go without losing its raison d'etre

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:40 | 4390501 besnook
besnook's picture

don't blame them. they were coached by the perps of the holocaust industry, the original whiners about the fairness of life.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 14:18 | 4391489 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

"Fairness of life"? Got news for you: Life ain't fair. If you left the Jews alone instead of trying to kill them all the time, there wouldn't be a Holocaust "industry" (whatever the hell that is). But then again, if you actually DID leave them alone, they'd end up owning everything, right? And that wouldn't be "fair" now, would it?

Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

And since this IS Fight Club, fuck you.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:45 | 4391753 besnook
besnook's picture

yes, they really are out to get you. fn idiot. no winner likes a whiner. they are immediately dismissed from the team. life isn't fair. you will get fucked simply by virtue of existing. no one has a monopoly or a special claim to misery. anyone who claims such distinction is a plain asshole. you fit the part.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:40 | 4392011 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

Well, you sure sound like a paranoid fuck, don't ya?

The moment you blame others for your problems, you've lost. That's why blacks (a la Sharpton), the Arabs-who-call-themselves-Palestinians, and the Zionists-are-taking-over-the-world crowd don't ever get out of their misery. And that group of losers includes Jews who blame anti-semitism for their own failures. 

It's not the cards you're dealt, it's how you play them. If you don't like the game of Life, feel free to check out anytime.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:21 | 4392119 besnook
besnook's picture

you are the asshole who sees stuff i never said or implied. the holocaust industry is a well documented money machine that uses pity, shame and guilt, not to mention extortion, both political and financial, to exploit the misery of tens of millions of people(besides them) by creating a meme that must be accepted even though genocide is not isolated enough to single out one as more horrible than all the rest. it is very disgusting behavior to claim status as the most persecuted in a world full of continuous persecution of all sorts of people for all sorts of "special" attributes.

i don't care for people who whine about the past regardless of who they are. i especially dislike people who use their past ancestral misery for present day financial and political benefit. this life owes you nothing and the next one won't either. begging is for panhandlers.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:54 | 4393093 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Any and all African social dysfunction (crime, poverty, disease, illiteracy) observed in the USSA is blamed on da terrble terrble legacy of slabery. In those European countries (UK, Sweden, etc) where ubiquitous African dysfunction is observed, but lacking da terrble terrble legacy, multikulti Marxists create new slogans & stigmata to smear the civilizationally competent peoples for the bad behavior of the incompetent.

As a white Male of mixed European heritage, let me proudly state that the Multikultists are wrong. We are not to blame for the failings of the African peoples. In fact, we are the only race which has attempted to uplift them with capital improvements, infrastructure projects, consumer products, medicine, written alphabets, and educational opportunity. Seeing as how our out-group altruism has led to the collapse of several of our population centers (Detroit, Baltimore, Camden, New Orleans, etc) I am willing to describe this altruism as pathological.

A trauma surgeon working at Johns-Hopkins may very well be saving the lives of the same thugs destroying the City of Baltimore. Something is wrong with this picture. Yes, Nazi rockets took us into space; no, Midnite Basketball will not take us to Mars.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:36 | 4390383 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

This multi-culturalism has got to stop.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:42 | 4390394 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That's not what this thread is about. If you want to gain access to other cultures, do some homework.

  Ying Yang turned me on to ( Zorin-7)  LINUX

  Do your homework Bitch!

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:15 | 4390459 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Okay, bitch!  This is Fight Club bitch!  Perhaps we were speaking figuratively, bitch!  Do you know what figuratively means, Bitch?  We have done our homework, bitch!  And guess what?  Until humans stop thinking in terms of China vs. Japan, North vs. South, Black vs. White, Young vs. Old, Rich vs. Poor, Conservative vs. Liberal, etc. etc. etc., until we unite and claim the planet as our own, we are doomed to repeat the failures of the past.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:34 | 4390490 jon dough
jon dough's picture

Well, yeah, there is that...but...

This multi-culturalism really has got to stop.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:50 | 4390521 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Over the last 50 years, progressive marxists have been promoting multiculturalism in the west for one purpose, the deconstruction of western culture.  They can kiss my monkey ass.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:10 | 4390554 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Can't even say "Merry Christmas" these days without offending some whiney towel-head!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:23 | 4390572 Andre
Andre's picture

Muslims don't care, but atheists foam.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 03:04 | 4390811 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Your both wrong. Look into it and you'll find neither the Muslims nor the atheists give a shit.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 07:20 | 4390958 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> neither the Muslims nor the atheists give a shit.

So someone else noticed?  More conconted bull shit by the persecuted christians.

 

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:56 | 4391767 Andre
Andre's picture

I see. That's why atheists file lawsuits all the time, they don't care?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:37 | 4390574 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I'ts never some towel head that's offended, just like it's never a female that's offended or some black guy that's offended.  It's always some fucking wormy progressive liberal sewing discord among brethren.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:15 | 4390659 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You and Fonestar are ass friends.  I love it.   Both in China?  Both paid by Chinese secret?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:24 | 4390679 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You sound a little more mentally disturbed than usual, I'm concerned, I don't want to lose you, I need someone to play with, what's going on?...I'm serious.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:35 | 4390681 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So tell me to go fuck myself. But you can't.  But I can tell you to go fuck yourself.  So go fuck yourself.  If you fail to tell me to go fuck myself, you are admitting that you are a slave and you are fucked.   Kind of sad, really.  How's that cock feel up your ass?  Come on, you can say it.  Starts with an "f".  Ends with a "k".  there are two letters in between.  Come on fuckwit.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:52 | 4390721 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I tell you to go fuck yourself every chance I get you fucking homo gimp.  What is it, you dont get enough?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:06 | 4390735 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

There you go, you little fucker.  I see permission was handed down.   Well done.  By the way, where is the little cunt named Fonestar?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 01:55 | 4390728 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Testing, testing, ahem!

 

FUCK YOU!!!!

 

This has been a test of the Fight Club Fuck You System.   In the event of communications platform troll or narc infiltation this system should be employed before utilization of your standard issue ventilation hardware.  You may resume Operation Mayhem activities until further notice.  FTW!   End transmission.

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:11 | 4390748 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

In Lola's progressive little mind she assumes I'm religious.  She doesn't understand I would crucify her upside down in a bucket of piss without remorse.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:12 | 4390753 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

ChinaBot.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 03:45 | 4390838 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Progressive trollbot faggot. Fuck you from Florida. Shove it up your fukin ass you liberal yankee faggoty fuck. Fuck Boston and your gay little faggoty faggot gay faggot prius you rode in on.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 09:19 | 4391022 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

Fuck me

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:39 | 4391214 akarc
akarc's picture

"Progressive trollbot faggot. Fuck you from Florida. Shove it up your fukin ass you liberal yankee faggoty fuck. Fuck Boston and your gay little faggoty faggot gay faggot prius you rode in on."

When all else fails dazzle them your intellectual Superiority and when that fails give a fine example of homophobia based on some latent tendencies maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 13:58 | 4391457 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

Yikes!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 02:18 | 4390759 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

When were crucifixions and piss divested of religious conotation?

IF it isn't broken why fix it?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 11:35 | 4391209 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"some fucking wormy progressive liberal sewing discord"

Just say it: ZioJews, their lapdog traitors, and the army of useful idiots.

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 03:39 | 4390834 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  tEAM dPENDS?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:13 | 4392235 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

That would be wonderful but TPTB find it very useful to keep racial tension alive in this country and keep us distracted. Assimilationism was an attempt to Americanize people to the culture of our country as primary. This promotes a group of people with like mindedness. Multiculturalism is promoted as celebrating everyone's culture but in reality it results in the opposite.

Miffed;-)

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:56 | 4390415 buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

I've been saving my money, cause...

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:56 | 4390418 GovernmentMule
GovernmentMule's picture

Dr. Phil for UN Ambassador!

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:58 | 4390421 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Thanks for the article, however it is laced with the "collective" tense. Things like "Korea, China, etc.," "people" and "we." People don't war, the pols, crats and banksters do.

The people are forced to go along under the barrel of the gun. The poor soldier fights to survive and save his buddies.

While the people bleed treasure and blood, the banksters and their pol and crat puppets catch the flow from the carnage for their profits.

"Yes Virginia, War is a racket."

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 22:59 | 4390425 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

Wow, this is among the best and most profound words I've read about the East Asian mess and the civil war. Thank you, Ms. Tiezzi! And thank you, ZH, for bring this to my attention!

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:59 | 4390533 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

LOL , everyone missed your /sarc tag.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:06 | 4390432 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

This article is complete and utter horseshit.

Denial of history is not confined to fringe elements of Japanese society, it is mainstream and taught in schools. Japan has never faced up to its history or made amends, preventing true reconciliation.

China (actually the entire rest of Asia) is entirely right to object to this and has no reason to change its stance.

Fri, 01/31/2014 - 23:22 | 4390472 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

japanese imperialism, the raping of nanking, and most of coastal china was no different than the atrocities committed by us troops in the phillipines.  japan thought they were just becoming one of the major players in the world. since european contries had been imperialist for a century.  japan thought they were the first asian country to join the imperialist club, they kicked russia's ass in the straits of tushima.

 

cain slew able, and its been on ever since.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 00:33 | 4390593 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Bullshit. The Japanase were unparalelled when it comes to WWII atrocities in Asia. Other nations did not even come close.

You are 100% wrong and you can take that relativist shit and shove it up your rectum. Educate yourself before spouting demonstrably false bullshit.

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