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Greece Is Back: Germany, France, Creditors Hold Secret Meeting Due To Greek Bailout "Mounting Concerns"
There was a time - roughly between May 2010 and the spring fall of 2011 - when all the world had to worry about was Greece. Then the realization finally dawned that since a Grexit from the Eurozone would kill the EUR and the European integration dream with so much "political capital" invested, crush Deutsche Bank, and bring back the much dreaded (by German exporters) Deutsche Mark, it became clear that there is no fear that Greece, which is now a decrepit shell of a country with a collapsed economy and society in shambles, has now become a slave state to European bureaucrats, business and banks (in Nigel Farage's words), will never be formally kicked out of Europe and only an internal coup would allow it to finally break free from the clutches of unelected European tyrants. And then the world moved on to more important things: like Japan, China Emerging Markets and how they are all enjoying the Fed's taper. Sadly, we have to report, that Greece is once again baaaaack.
According to the WSJ, "top officials peeled away from colleagues after a euro-zone finance ministers meeting in Brussels Monday evening for a secret meeting to discuss mounting concerns over Greece's bailout.
High-level officials from the International Monetary Fund, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, senior euro-zone officials and the German and French finance ministers were present, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they aren't authorized to talk to the press.
They were trying to figure out how to tackle two issues threatening to unsettle the fragile economic recovery in Greece and the broader euro zone.
They discussed how to press the Greek government to forge ahead with unpopular structural reforms; and second, how to scramble together extra cash to cover a shortfall in the country's financing for the second half of the year, estimated at €5 billion-€6 billion ($6.81 billion-$8.17 billion).
Of course, this being Europe, nothing was decided: "The meeting was inconclusive, the people familiar with the situation said. Talks with the Greek authorities continue remotely—though representatives of the three institutions, known as the troika, have put on hold their plans to travel to Athens. Concerns are growing because Greece faces a large maturity of government bonds in May of €11 billion. The IMF hasn't disbursed any aid to Greece since July and is €3.8 billion behind in scheduled aid payments. The IMF insists on having a clear view of the country's finances 12 months ahead, and this condition hasn't been met."
And so the posturing resumes, with the Troika pretending it won't hand over the funds unless Greece "reforms", and Greece promising the "reform" as soon as it gets the funds. Nothing new here. What is new, is that finally the facade of Greek sovereignty and independence was stripped away as decisions regarding Greece took place... without
Greece: "Greek Finance Minister Yiannis Stournaras, who was briefing the
press in the same building at the time, wasn't invited."
Which is right - after all when a nation is enslaved and has no sovereignty, it doesn't deserve to have a voice in its future.
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Greece is not Spain
Free Nikos Michaloliakos and the Golden Dawn
Happily, I get to report that Euro shorts are once again front and cennnnter.
EUR-USD
1.3481 -0.0074 -0.55%
Is this "business casual" in Greece? No wonder they don't get anything done.
Someone get Mr. Panos on the blow!
well, this seems to be giving the algos a hard-on
On a related story about Europe and Nigel Farage:
'UK Tea Party' Surges to Become Country's 'Most Favoured' Political Movement"UKIP is also expected to take a huge chunk of seats at the upcoming European Parliamentary elections in May, promising more Eurosceptic Members (MEPs) who will no doubt argue for a return of sovereignty to national governments across the continent, away from the bureaucratic talons of the European Union."
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/01/27/UK-Tea-Party-surges-to-bec...
What shorts?
My hubby grew-up in Greece and he says that Greek men are immune to topless women but they still look for statistical purposes.
UKIP for a return of sovereignty to national governments across the continent?
I'm sorry, but it ain't so
UKIP stands for UK Indipendence Party. they want the UK to exit the EU. they don't even bother to vote, in the EU parliament
national governments? probably you are American, then in Europe governments are what you call administrations, i.e. the executive. and they sit in the Council
the "fight for sovereignty" is not around governments, it's around parliaments and highest courts
who is seriously comparing UKIP with the US Tea Party?
Sorry, but UKIP will turn out just like the rest of them once they get a whiff of power.
ANother sign is that the YKWs are busily infiltrating the party. Jokes already to the effect that the Tory Party will be replaced by the Torah Party.
Ghordius - You are wrong. UKIP wants free trade between all countries and free movement between some members. No laws made in Brussels. That is it, no more. Sounds perfect to me.
limit_less, I agree that UKIP wants free trade. All Britons want free trade. Inside, outside any trade unions, actually they don't like trade unions
which reminds me that we continentals wanted and still want a trade union, and Britain mostly joined so that it would not be left outside of it and our markets
yet my argument is that UKIP does not want to change anything about the EU, it just wants the UK out of it. BriXit
I'd be the first to cheer if they succeed
---
ok, now I see why I caused confusion. Temporalist was writing about the EU elections. I was thinking more in general. Which leads me to remind you that UKIP needs your vote in the national elections in order to achieve their goal...
'UK Tea Party' Surges to Become Country's 'Most Favoured' Political Movement
1 problem here...the euros don't drink tea.
Damn! Damn you Horseman. Now how am I supposed to get any work done?
I wouldn't mind a little bit of her contagion.
Ever had an STD? Ever had an STD with tsatsiki?
Yes, and, maybe.
Imagine wearing sun glasses on a hot day. You have to protect something!
Is that building in the background an example of Art Deco?
How could you tell?
Long verticals, smooth surfaces, and tastefully rounded corners that are appropriately sized for the overall structure. Certain symmetrical features provide balance and add interest..duh.
Put her in front of the Carlyle Hotel and then get back to me...
in europe that be the equivalent of council flats.
If that's art deco then we desperately need to put those architects along with the bankstas on the list of those who should jump out of the Shard w/o parachutes.
English = council flats, American English = public housing
bah, this article is so full of spin that I'm still undecided if I should bother at all to comment. It would take a lot of words
Please, take a moment to highlight the spin in the above.
fine. fact is that the troika had a meeting. without the Greek Finance Minister. it's put as suggesting as in "your creditors are having a pre-meeting", and then meet with you
is anybody's freedom and sovereignty impinged by that?
note that this kind of meeting has always been done when the IMF is involved, and the EU and ECB participation means that Greek interests are being represented and Greece will get the info. it was just the bloody Greek Finance Minister that had better things to do. he meets them later anyway
the rest is mostly spin. ok, the "posturing part" is mostly correct. but the "What is new, is that finally the facade of Greek sovereignty and independence was stripped away as decisions regarding Greece took place... without Greece: "Greek Finance Minister Yiannis Stournaras, who was briefing the press in the same building at the time, wasn't invited"? just spin
Instant Classic!
With representation like that, comrade, who needs a kleptomaniac dictator?
how much you know about those meetings? there are becoming legendary. really hateful. three sides: one very hard, one hard and one ultra-soft
Greece is fully represented in the latter two. and it's negotiation. meaning that whatever compromise comes out, when the meeting with the Greek Finance Minister happens, he can ask for a further compromise
seriously, hedgeless, how much does the above-average-informed American (because ZH reader) know about those "international" things? You would scoff if I suggested in a comment that the US Congress could just make a simple majority vote of no confidence and appoint a new POTUS just because this would be the stardard, here
we have a lot of small sovereign nations here, and for us it's just more immediate. I think we also have a different, more sharply defined concept of sovereignty. After all, this very concept is... ours
I believe you! What are the names of the representatives elected by Greeks that were in the meeting for this negotiation?
Exactly. Probably time to go ahead and quit this one, ghordius. If you think those people are there to 'represent Greece' you are delusional.
eh? by Greeks directly or by the Greek parliament or appointed by the Greek government, who can be recalled and exchanged by a new one by the directly elected Greek parliament?
we do have a different political and constitutional setup here. it's called Parliamentarism
LOL! That is rich, Ghordius!
If you Europeans truly had a "sharply defined concept of sovereignty", your small sovereign nations would not be racing (or at least acquiescing) to piecemeal surrender that sovereignty to become part of an overriding EU empire ruled by Brussels. You would also have just as quickly long ago dumped Greece from the Eurozone as Greece would have raced to exit it. But such developments away from centralized control are simply not an option under EU rule, are they?
Why are you so adamant in your defenses of increasingly centralized EU control? True freedom, and sovereignty, would consist of EXERCISING that sovereignty by saying "NO" to the EU.
why do you think I'm "adamant" about "centralized EU control"? it's like if you were saying to a Confederate shortly before the US Civil War that he is for a superstate
shall I set up a special EU Confederation flag for us all? we already have national flags, btw. in our political context, I'm a moderate centrist
Greece is not getting a bad deal, if you make an historical comparison. Of Treatment of Sovereigns by Other Sovereigns
Greece is holding up it's membership to two clubs of sovereigns, one based on Four Freedoms, the other monetary
remember, Greece is currently asking for moar money against new promises. and getting what Greece wants (just not all of it)
tell me, what is your definition of a sovereign? in our Old World, it's a serious, grown-up entity with agency. an adult, if you want
"True freedom, and sovereignty, would consist of EXERCISING that sovereignty by saying "NO" to the EU."
this is your political stance. Is it that of the Greek People?
go back to the last elections and have a look which parties canvassed for that option, and how much votes they got
a majority of Greeks still want to keep the EUR. how do you explain that?
Stockholm Syndrome.
At least she is thin, which is alot compared to our american heffers.
It's hereford. And stop comparing fat hairy beasts to my beautiful cattle!
Look up "Heifer", not "heffer"
Whooa ! Here, Kitty, here, kitty. Dadddy has some nice cream for you. Jeebus fizzling christos; I'm more and more interested in that picture, and I feel younger, and younger. and then; suddenly, I'm not inerested any more. Sigh ~!
Somehow me thinks these were the 'concerns' they were 'mounting' at this meeting.
Honestly at some point even the vampire gives up the withered and empty corpse but somehow it seems the ECB is dead set on attaching transfusions to the corpse so the vampire can continue to feed unabated.
I eagerly await the day the corpse disintegrates and the vampires go for the real targets (themselves).
OldE
This is much better than those soups you usuallly post...
The saddest part of the European economic crisis is that living goddesses like this woman are even less likely to have many children. Think of the beauty, love, and joy lost, what took millenia to create will be decimated in a few short decades. Oh how I wish I could worship her with a camera, creating images that should hang in the National Gallery of Art, and then fill up a house with her children.
Talking about pretty gals : Look at Putin's new GF, age 30, ex olympic gymnastics champion and allegedly will carry the flame or flag during the opening ceremonies at Sochi.
Groupe « lesbien » et flamme olympique : surprenantes révélations sur la cérémonie d’ouverture à Sotchi | Sotchi dans la colle | Rue89 Les blogs
This guy outhits Hollande's hostile dismissal of Valerie and shoe in of Julie...
All these Politicians have ants in their pants. Gung ho !
"No matter what the cost them dual exhausts
drive my young blood wild.
My baby's got...
She got the Cadillac Walk."
Willy DeVille
They have beautiful skin the Greeks
But unfortunately they go VERY pair shaped from about 32 onwards
Why? It would just replace one group of Fascists with another.
Grease is the Word
Greece is Bostons version of "The Big Dig" and never ending deep hole for taxslaves of europe to throw money into. Bankers popping boners everytime the word bailout is mentioned and................Oh, Im sorry........you thought that this was for the benifit of the Greek citizen?
So back to the dead fed economist, he slipped on a wad of spooge that ran down his leg when he stopped to take a piss.
If Greece was a teenager, his dad would have kicked him out of the house already.
Sheesh...
"Greece is not Spain"
Correct : Spain is MUCH worse!
Greece is toast. But the truth must be told. The majority of the Greek population want to stay with the Euro. Word.
"The majority of the Greek population want to stay with the Euro"
Correction
"The majority of the Greek population want to continue getting something for nothing" .. and they will good and hard
And now who know who the Germans were jawboning about concerning bail-ins this time around.
Oh Christ, its like watching CPR being performed on a corpse that's been dead for a week. Give it up already.
God, this is great day to watch Fox Biz and CNBC!
Surprise, surprise, surprise !!! (read in your gomer pyle mental voice)
Excerpt from secret meeting minutes: "OK, who's turn is it to fall on their sword and print like a madman?"
Draghi has been warming up in the bullpen all season. I hope is arm is still fresh.
printing won't work.
Japan never had unemployment at this level after the Nikkei collapsed.
If Europe does QEurope then outright deflation will be the result. No need to return to the d-mark actually. the problem comes with being able to create enough debt to "move the needle" on growth.
the interest rates are low...but the euro-dollar amounts are pretty much nil in the general scheme of things.
You mean the bankers promised to help them out and then didn't follow through. Greece, the agreement is in default now. Just walk away from your debt.
FOUR! FOUR! Four years of the same story. I think we all know how this one ends, so let's cut to the chase (banker pun intended). After much blustering back and forth Greece gets bailed out, the bankers get paid, the people get screwed, and we repeat the cycle next year.
Agree. The only thing that required discussion in that "secret meeting" was how they're going to dispose of the bodies.
Markets sure lovin this good news.
Greece never went away!
Seems that first domino just won't fall.
Meh. Pocket change. Wake me up when they start talking hundreds of billions again.
Greece is looking for the golden fleece...
ITs not in Greece but the Troika won't believe them. "Its here somewhere, you crooks! Where are you hiding it?"
Those banks are so relentless. They have sold the golden fleece to two thousand clients; all Oligarchs, all with hired guns!
You can imagine their angst at its disapearance. "We'll lose our bonuses if we don't produce by this summer! We may even have to jump from the London Shard. Thats the NEW Tower of LONDON. The place where they, the Oligarchs, hang those deemed criminal who DONT DELIVER. Those who WONT Jump without their parachutes just get pushed out! I dont want to die like that Ambrosiano fella!"
Ye Gads, What is Boris up to?
"we keep you alive to serve this ship."
"Back to your orr, 41"
- The devine Arrius
" so row well and live . "
+1 Ben Hur
Too much political capital invested in Greece "rescue", they will find a way to get the taxpayers of EU take the bill, it´s just a question of how to present it, so nobody understands what´s happening....wait and see
They just love it when a country accumulates so much debt that they can step in, "lend" them money and from that point forward have the leverage to, RuLe them! The debt surfs had better exercise more self control next time around - if there is a next time.
The Troika wont even go there...afraid of their lives I bet.....11 billion coming due...a shortfall of 4 more billion...yeah looks good without a bailout.....not...
I wonder how many of the CDS written on Greece that were `live` back in 2012 when things got a bit exciting, have now simply expired?
If the CDS market has `gone away` allowing a default may be less unatractive than before....possibly.
But assuming there is anything of value left to loot - the can will be kicked, again.
Back so soon? The olive oil tourism just isn't going to cut it anymore. The Brussels banksters want more.
Isn't this how Hitler took over? Eventually people for an alternative. They have no choice.
How DARE the slaves cost money!!!
Damn, I can just tell at a glance that girl is a highly qualified deck hand. got me so interested in her future employment and happiness, I tried to start eating breakfast before I remembered to put my teeth in; damn I hate when that happens.
"...decisions regarding Greece took place... without Greece: "Greek Finance Minister Yiannis Stournaras, who was briefing the press in the same building at the time, wasn't invited." "
Hilarious.
I hear that fights break out in Athens between homeless folks fighting over doorways to sleep in.
come on, smacker. the whole article is around the factoid that those guys had a meeting to discuss what to say to the Greek delegation. hardly a breach of anything, and for sure not of sovereignty
Beteeen Golden Dawn and Syriza they should be able to put a stop to the rape and pillage of Greece.
The ensuing collapse of the European nightmare will be a very welcome sideshow.
Seems a proper Right-Wing Revolution is the Only way Out for Europe
This time finish the fucking job
greece is back, tell a friend naraaaanaaaananana
"Then the realization finally dawned that since a Grexit from the Eurozone would kill the EUR and the European integration dream with so much".
Perhaps. But it would also put in motion a chain of events that would mean the end of Deutsche Bank
Tell me it ain't so.
Is Greece going to default?
The curtain has been pulled back and the Greek people are confronted with the naked reality of no democracy, outcomes that cry out against logic and reason, and a spineless gaggle of "socialist" and "social democratic" politicians unable or unwilling to lead them in a fight. The question has to be asked: "why not?" It is not sufficient to just dismiss them as bad or worthless people. They must have their reasons. We all have our reasons.
I keep remembering how the Greek Prime Minister, Papandreou was it? who proposed to put a bailout package to the voters, but withdrew that several days later reporting that he had been personally threatened with death by President Sarkozy of France. I wonder, was his capitulation simply personal cowardice? Complicity? Or bowing to Greece's reality as an enslaved nation? What would have happened had he defied Sarkozy and pushed ahead with the vote? A simple murder would not have been enough for the EU to set that right.
Then there's the Army. Greece's army is descended from the puppet forces that collaborated with Hitler and took control during the Civil War of 1946-49, with heavy British and American support. The generals took back full power in a bloody coup in 1969, as told in the movie Z, to tame a population that was getting out of control. It relinqueshed power under pressure in 1974 but was not defeated or purged.
The key to understanding the collapse of Greek democracy in the face of the EU bankers may lie in the answer to the question: Whose army is it?
The resolution may perhaps lie in the hands of the junior officers and professional soldiers, whose thoughts and loyalties we can only imagine.
I'm not sure of the relevance of the barge haulers on the Volga. Though the Russian trikolor on the barge is upside down, a universally recognised call for HELP.
Who else noted the Russian flag on that ship? I thought other countries were more actively involved in slavery...
look at all those poor unemployed english people in the background.
before the GFC they have bought property on Ninja Loans in Greece, Italy and Spain.
When the crunch came, tourism collapsed, property developments went bust,
and all those dreams of a place in the sun went up in smoke.
Now you sit on some desolate beach, wiped out and totally fucked.
and you keep asking...
where did it all go wrong ?
wr;)
This is simple:
1. Merkel was re-elected;
2. Whatever we may think, Merkel really believes in all this EU-nonsense; so
3. Merkel will arrange that her taxpayers pay for any Greek bills.
So if you are looking for Greece to be the first EU-dominio, think again.
Personally, for various reasons, I would look to Italy...
Watson
HAHAHAHAHA
There isn't even enough left for a "bail in".
How long has this train wreck been in motion?
The only way Europe will experience a "recovery" is when they bite the bullet and get rid of the deadbeats (including France).
What will be left is Germany and everyone else.
"when a nation is enslaved and has no sovereignty, it doesn't deserve to have a voice in its future" - Well, but at least they had a lot of saying, or I sell say buying, in the past, when they were getting money and enjoy lavish live stile for a southern, non industrial, economy. Now it is a pay day. Although, even now, most of the Greeks, have at least 300% more income ( due to the credit system of course ) that any of the other countries in the region. So when they are represented as slaves, it is unfair ( to the salves, I would clarify ), for the Greeks are more like a drunk person who has had massive drinking problem, and now, due to withholding of more alcohol from the owner of the place, has to get sober and pay the bill.
Sounds familiar? If not, it will soon be, but in quite another form.