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Market Cornered: JPMorgan Owns Over 60% Notional Of All Gold Derivatives

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Perhaps the only question we have after seeing the attached table, which shows that as of Q3, 2013 JPMorgan owned $65.4 billion, or just over 60% of the total notional ($108.2 billion) of all gold derivatives in the US, is whether the CFTC will pull the "our budget was too small" excuse to justify why it allowed Jamie Dimon to ignore any and all position limits and corner the gold market?

 

And purely as a reference point, the chart below compares the total value of gold held in JPM's vault (registered and eligible) as of Friday's closing price with its reported gold derivative notional holdings.

 

Finally, for the purists out there, we realize that gross is not net... until there is a breach in the derivative counterparty collateral chain, and gross becomes net.

Source: OCC, Comex

 

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Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:09 | 4392353 discopimp
discopimp's picture

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!! MOVE ALONG (fools...cough, cough) FOLKS!!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:08 | 4392355 swanpoint
swanpoint's picture

Sounds bad.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:11 | 4392365 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

makes me feel better than viagra

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:48 | 4392442 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYuBDIWpvT4

(Extenze)

Bob wasn't so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMF4S4W4sdQ

('Extenze' Bob sentenced to 20 years in the Pokie)

'"...he preyed on the (sic) inadeqacies and vulnerabilities of (sic) so as to keep massive amounts of money generated by (fraud).."', or so is reported by the MSM.

Either way, Bob is getting 20 years of a roommate named 'Bubba', and is probably being pimped out right now. I see a colostomy bag in Bob's future...

J.P.? Not sure...

BOB is happy. He's getting a new roommate, and a welcome relief.

Do you think that J.P. is a virgin? (NOT for LONG...)    :)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:21 | 4392542 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Massive fraud.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 07:50 | 4393158 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Good, but wake me up when they go after Jamie.

He might know how to 'service' Bath House Barry, but Hitlery swings another way.

***

Who would think a pill would make your wang grow? I mean, it's 'hard' to feel any sympathy for the buyers of hardzite.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:12 | 4392366 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

Hold the real thing and let the market find its way to you. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:14 | 4392369 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

65 to 1 wow.  But we do not know if the taxpayser somehow covers the derivative risk, or if the tiny '1' gold is replinished by the Fed reserve, or if the Fed even has much gold left.  So this bar graph is only a hint of what JPM is doing.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:18 | 4392529 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

GSR approaching 65 to 1 as well, just saying.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:38 | 4392600 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

All asset classes are approaching leverage of 65 to 1.  Just saying.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 17:38 | 4394121 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Comex gold even more so.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 18:16 | 4394212 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

The ratio of german gold requested and german gold shipped is what again?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:17 | 4392371 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Should this not read, 'J.P. Morgan Cornered Holding Paper Gold Derivitave Contracts', or something?

Well, if you have Gold futures contracts with the JPMorgue, I suggest you call the notes and get the physical. Do not wait.

Definition of derivative (adj) Bing Dictionary
  • de·riv·a·tive
  • [ di rívv?tiv ]
  •  

unoriginal: copied from somewhere and not original.

SAY, is that like 'counterfeiting'?

The 'fractional reserve' thing looks like about a factor of 65 to one.

I wonder if they actually HAVE the purported one Billion in gold...

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:31 | 4392407 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, that's the real issue.  They seem to think they have an "Honorable John Corzine" get out of fail free card.

I don't have a clue what actually happens on a complete, catastrophic failure to deliver. I don't think Jamie does either.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:53 | 4392456 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Most likely the plan here, is that JPM go the way of Lehman, ... or Bear

Then Goldman Sachs is the last man standing, ... and rules the world, with no competion,

best of all GS gets all those patents that JPM holds on BTC for penny's

*

JPM is going down and hard.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:49 | 4392630 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

JPM will not likely be the next House to fail.  They will sell their short positions right before the IMF reveals China has quadrupled their gold over the last few years.  Put the bank failure on a smaller institution, like Morgan Stanley.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:31 | 4392873 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Anybody care to bet green's and red's on this one?

I sure as shit don't see ZH dissing MS 24/7,...

One thing CLEAR as shit about ZH is that they're 180 degrees wrong on every fucking subject alive,... ( gold, usd, stock, fiat, ... always wrong )

On what basis do you see MS going down, ... can you tell us? Anybody else here have an opinion who is the next bear or lehman?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:26 | 4392943 Kina
Kina's picture

You need to differentiate between ZH and its commenters.

ZH rarely makes predictions on prices, it just informs on what is going on....from there you do your own thinking.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:19 | 4392375 SlipStitchPass
SlipStitchPass's picture

Pretty sure Jamie could shit 65Billion so this does not seem like a big deal. What does their Silver derivative book look like?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:23 | 4392381 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Let me tell you a bad joke.... The CFTC.

That's it.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:27 | 4392391 silverstud
silverstud's picture

Its a no brainer if JPM get caught out the US Govt will demand that anyone holding gold cash it in at the bank at the current manipulated and deflated prices - any shortfall in US$ currency will be simply printed into existence by the Fed Reserve.

And they will be like hounds after a rabbit to protect their banking masters who can do no wrong.

It's time for a revolution before they start putting chips in us then pull the plug.

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:56 | 4392654 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Not many AMericans own gold, unfortunately.  There really isn't much money to make by having gold turned in nowadays.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:29 | 4392868 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Which is why all PHYSICAL GOLD has already left the USA.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:41 | 4392970 mt paul
mt paul's picture

one day....

 

the gold market will be closed

no price... bid or ask

at this time we have ceased all trades in gold

due to problems in the derivative markets...

until further notice there will be no spot price of gold set...

 just a thought ... 

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 05:46 | 4393113 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

dont give them ideas you fool

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 13:53 | 4393627 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

mt paul

"the gold market will be closed

no price... bid or ask

at this time we have ceased all trades in gold"

OR

the chinese empty city will be closed

no price... bid or ask

at this time we have ceased all trades in housing for this area of china.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:20 | 4392543 discopimp
discopimp's picture

Acutally that was pretty stupid, I gave myself a down arrow!!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:27 | 4392395 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

JPM corners paper gold market

JPM corners BITCOIN market

JPM corners world toilet paper

JPM/NSA capture worlds sewage for realtime analysis online 24/7

*

JPM wants to eat Goldman Sachs Shit.

Move along.

ZH wants the eye of sauron on JPM, and not on Goldman Sachs.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:50 | 4392448 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

GS is too busy installing central bankers worldwide.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:27 | 4392864 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

GS biggest offices are Bangalore, salt-lake-city, and NYC.

Huge number of internet-bots working in INDIA filling the comment content with bullshit to sway GS way of thinking worldwide.

SLC of course is NSA, and GS & NSA are like siamese twins.

*

I agree with you that GS is too busy running CB's to fuck with JPM, JPM is going down like bear and lehman, by design.

*

I want to see ZH, attack INDIA and GS more,... Just wishing, ..

Kicking JPM is like kicking a fucking puppy.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 13:48 | 4393621 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

Yep, one central banker is worth his/her weight in around 1000 tons of physical gold these days.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:07 | 4392492 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

ZH is an equal opportunity offender.

GS is The Morgue is Citi is RBS is FedRes is Bundesbank is...

One big happy family, with no bias aginst race, creed, or gender (exept for Yellen, the 'skirt named Burt') and 'Billary' (the exxestential homogeneous blending of male and female in the EVIL sense).

satoshi:

9/11 was carried out by 19 Arab males between the ages of 18 to 34, with boxcutters; directed by a religious zealot hiding in the caves in Tora Bora with nothing more than a laptop and a cellphone; and managed to overcome the most heavily-funded and protected airspace on the Earth, flying 4 commercial aircraft for a period of almost two hours off-course. Not one single fighter/interceptor was able to catch them, and they managed to penetrate the most heavily-fortified and defended buildings on the planet, due to a 'failure of imagination', and no one (at least in this government' envisioned using airplanes as weapons.

Funny, I WAS not going to downvote your crappy comment, but after reading your bullshit post, and seeing your '911' thingie, I must now recant.

Terrorists, terror, terrorist, terrorists, terrorists with WMD's, terror,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98&feature=player_embedded

BITE ME, satoshi.

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:58 | 4392662 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Agreed.

ZH supports no bank.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:24 | 4392859 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

I thought the narrative was that 911, was an 'inside job'?

I do agree with you, 911 was done by 19 saudi teenagers with boxcutters and caused $10 trillion or more damage to the USA economy.

*

My name '911' was not  chosen, or any reason other than random-ness, I have run out of numbers over the year's here.

*

ZH was created by GS, that's a fact on wiki, the first TYLER was GS. Just stating history.

 

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:28 | 4393125 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

How does it feel?  Bob Dylan (Rolling Stone)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UbFum_5Q7U&list=LLhf6BW0qOnbQKegU5atxbkg

Sleeping giant (American public) is starting to realize something ain't right.  Not a moment to spare; the internet is giving them all the necessary information to add it all up and of course, see the all-telling money trail.  Rage is around the corner.  The rich kid on the block didn't get that way for nothing.  Americans just needed to be reminded of who they are.

RT TV declares 9-11 was an inside job.

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/russia-today-declares-911-was-...

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:04 | 4392915 the0ther
the0ther's picture

I think you're onto something

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:47 | 4393132 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

JPM corners destroying the lives of good people.

Bernie McCann, on January 14, 2014 at 1:36 pm said:

Chase typically does not follow HAMP regulations or modify loans, and they do not accept calls from HUD counselors. They will typically refuse a conference call once they become aware that the 3rd party is a HUD counselor. This is just prudent business practice for the bank. Their profits from the foreclosure crisis come in form of government incentive money to help consumers. As a matter of bank business, Chase accepts the incentive money from the feds and in turn refuses to work with HUD, HAMP and other programs and agencies to help consumers keep their homes. Their goal is to get the bad mortgages off of their books, and foreclose as quickly as possible.

http://mychaseloanmodification.com/saving-my-home-from-jp-morgan-chase/

The lawsuits just don't stop.  I know this since I appear to be in the latest one, due to attempt to modify my home loan after job loss and income reduction when new job was found (this was the plan, they had the blueprint created to reflect what actually happened, entrapment, misleading and with the end result of a foreclosure.

The sheer stress from having the town you live in die before your eyes, as jobs leave, the offer by your mtg co. to assist was actually a scheme.  Explained better by the person above is why JPM is a thorn in the side of any decent person alive in America today. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:28 | 4392398 steveo77
Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:28 | 4392399 Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

Prima facie evidence that the gold market is being manipulated, and more than likely not more than a dozen people. And still they insist on calling it free market capitalism. I have zero doubt the same sorry state of affairs exists in all other major commodity exchanges and to a large extent all markets... a handful of players rigging the markets... and Western governments around the world let this sorry cabal of derelict criminals run us into the ground for their own personal pleasure.

 

 

Burn them all to the ground before they do the same to us.

 

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:09 | 4392495 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

...and prima facie evidence that gold still scares the living shit out of them. There is little doubt that, at the end of the day, the golden rule still applies

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:13 | 4392511 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Gold is real and, not counting paper gold, for the moment, is out of their control.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:00 | 4392666 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

If they could print gold, they would.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:45 | 4392976 mt paul
mt paul's picture

 print the price ...

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:26 | 4393441 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

mt paul: constates "print the price"

Yes, someone here shows signs of being able to comprehend my own logical confrontations concerning the question of 'what happens when the 1 % own 99% of the gold'. question i posted earlier. Or another way of putting it is what happens when central banks own 99% of the gold. First time in history.

Yes "print the price" by controlling the demand and buying up excess supply from gold miners for instance using a fresh batch of fiat QE paper, the central banker can use this tool to synthetically control the price of gold in any direction. Gold deriviative margin calls is a problem that can be looked at later. This problem needs to be addressed first as mt paul has done.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:21 | 4393123 trader1
trader1's picture

there is no such thing as "free market" capitalism in the practical or theoretical sense that most people think...

the system is pure fulfillment of desires through opportunism mixed in with a little bit of manic depression.

 

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:28 | 4392400 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Crash JPM sell gold.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:39 | 4392427 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Crash COMEX, demand delivery.

They want the gold ,not the paper.

'Gold is money,everything else is credit".sic JPM.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:48 | 4392445 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

If every entity in the world, legally owes you gold, do you care if you don't hold any physical gold? Did the goldsmiths care if their vaults were empty when everyone owed them gold?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:18 | 4392534 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Just checked.

No one except me owns my gold.

Now let me go wash this dirt ,and mud off my hands.

Long shovel ready jobs.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 02:16 | 4393000 mt paul
mt paul's picture

send in 

the gold sniffing badgers...

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:03 | 4392673 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

hmmm, when you own a contract, you can short said contract.  Thus, knowing the difference between the paper market and physical, JPM is likely short the majority of their position. 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:44 | 4393461 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

hmmmstrange is another here who shows signs of being pecked to death by extremist gold bug fundamentalists that swarm to ZH, and that actually think posting here will increase the value of their own miopic gold holdings. I call it 'battered bug syndrome'.

The question that hmmmstrange posted and was intensely downarrowed by the battered bugs blinded by the QE light was and still is
"If every entity in the world, legally owes you gold, do you care if you don't hold any physical gold? Did the goldsmiths care if their vaults were empty when everyone owed them gold?"
Good question/food for thought. hmmmstrange !!
The goldsmiths have never had it so good.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 05:22 | 4393105 Shrapnel
Shrapnel's picture

December 18-19, 1912

 

Congress: "The basis of banking is credit, is it not?"

John Pierpont Morgan: "Not always. That is an evidence of banking, but it is not the money itself. Money is gold, and nothing else." 

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:47 | 4393131 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If an institution has 60% of the COMEX open interest and dumps a fuck-ton of contracts on the bid it doesn't actually cost them very much paper money if a large chuck of the paper gold contracts they dump are swallowed up by another subsidiary of the same institution and they are effectively their own counter-party. The definition of a cornered market. (Ref. FDR - "We owe it to ourselves")

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:33 | 4392410 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Looks like JPM is betting big that the price of gold will fall.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:13 | 4392827 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

'betting' ? 

dont you mean 'colluding to ensure ' ?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:33 | 4392413 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I'm sure this is totally normal. Nothing to see here. Tis only lies and theft.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:57 | 4392417 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

My personal wet dream is seeing everyone involved with JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs strung up with piano wire.  Sorry, when I was younger, it was Farrah Fawcett... now it's plain old justful vengence.  They're all just usurious dens of iniquity.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:05 | 4392482 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"My personal wet dream is seeing everyone involved with JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs strung up with piano wire.  Sorry, when I was younger, it was Farrah Fawcett"

 

Now, why would anybody want to see Farrah Fawcet strung up with piano wire?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:48 | 4392628 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

I have to laugh out loud at that one.  You guys are sick bastards, but I love you.  

 

No. Farrah would be gently caressed... the banksters would be roughly strangled.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:55 | 4392794 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

The beauty of the intricacies of the English language is in the many ways that some words and statements could be interpreted.

Homonyms cause the most mirth for me though.  i.e.

I don't care for bear breasts, but I really do love bare breasts.*

*NOTE TO Ms.Creant - don't start that horrid visualization test again with Janet Yellen exposing her flaccid and sweaty boobs and grabbing the back of my head and forcing me to "motorboat" the bags.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 02:15 | 4392977 mt paul
mt paul's picture

hey

bear breasts rock....

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:19 | 4392532 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I got a stiffy for Farrah too, and an even bigger one for Jaclyn Smith:

http://img2-1.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/071003/70swomen/smith_l.jpg

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:01 | 4393241 Bogdog
Bogdog's picture

She's had a bit o' the plastique' applied.

But I'd still tap that.

http://www.listal.com/viewimage/2692415h

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 22:15 | 4473480 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Thanks.  I just went "limpus mons".

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:20 | 4392535 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

I wouldn't string Farrah up. I might post her pictures, or even go out on a date with her, but I REALLY wouldn't desire to see her stung up.

DAMMIT, man, what the fuck is WRONG with you?

When you were YOUNGER, you wanted to string Farrah Fawcett up with piano wire?

You are a SICK FUCK, I think. Try to show a little control and mercy to those who have wronged you, or else you will become as evil as they.

A simple 'I'm too fugly to be with her, so I will jack off now' would suffice, you twisted sister.

IN THE MEANTIME:

Look at this girl's body! MAGNIFICENT...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=farrah+fawcett+poster&qpvt=farrah+fa...

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:05 | 4392681 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

+1 for taste in music

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:23 | 4392719 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Johann Sebastian Bach is the greatest composer ever... bar none.  ( * blush * )

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:30 | 4392742 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Very prolific with quality music.  Some of his relatives were good also.  Mozart is also another favorite.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:35 | 4392750 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

My grandfather used to play this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho9rZjlsyYY

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:50 | 4392787 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

And another of my Bach favorites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZn_VBgkPNY

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:16 | 4392842 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Works BWV 001-1127 are my favorites.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:26 | 4392863 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Yo-Yo MA uses a little too much rubato for my taste, but nonetheless a good interpretation.

 Try this rendition of the Goldberg Variations by Vladimir Feltsman.  He transposes many of the variations to higher or lower registers on the piano which was not available to Bach in his day (harpsichord and clavichord only).  I think the Master would approve.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqRREOdUzt0

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:44 | 4392890 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

nice

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:43 | 4392437 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Oh noes! Stanks the serial junk dog is on the loose again.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:07 | 4392491 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Would be funny if the Tylers could see who was junking and traced the IP address back to 33 Liberty Street.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:21 | 4392856 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Wasn't he Fed hiring people whose job was 'projecting a positive image of the Federal Reserve in alternative media' a while back?   I recall copies of a classified for the position somewhere.  

This is now standard operating procedure  for many large companies - and you'd expect it to be true for government especially the Fed given that 'Management of PERSPCTIVE' is one of their primary methods of managing the economy.

It's all about 'appearances' - hese people make their own 'reality' 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:50 | 4392446 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     Don't forget to tip the " paperboy" honey...

   F/U asshat junkster NORK!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:04 | 4392479 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Gold is a crappy investment.  TBTF banks are a necessary part of efficient capitalism.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:16 | 4392519 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Yeah.  There's that reliable downvote!!!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:21 | 4392540 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Damn, Dimon is busy tonight!

Don't even think he's reading - just clicking.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:30 | 4392568 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

But, it looks like a junker beat me to it!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:39 | 4392602 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

The 'sarc' thingie doesn't seem to be obvious to those without intellectual acumen.

Nowadays, you have to try adding it, so as to not get 'junked'.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:53 | 4392455 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Surely it is just a protctive hedge. I'm sure they would never consider using their market dominance to in anyway manipulate the markets to their favor....

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:54 | 4392458 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Question:  Does their derivative position pay out in physical metal or in currency?  If it pays out in actual PM, then it could be a hedge against their rather smallish physical holdings.  If it pays in currency, then it is merely an investment vehicle (hopefully not prop though).

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:36 | 4392583 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

As far as I know, ALL the market makers can, in extremis, pay in cash.  They do not have to pay you in physical metal.  That is another reason why the COMEX and JPM cannot be "Busted by buying physical (silver/gold)!".  Of course, by NOT providing physical if there is real demand for it, well...................

That is just from my own reading and study.  True experts are invited to answer this important question for Iam_Silverman and The Bearing.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:13 | 4392696 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

+1

You are correct.  The GLD contract states only the largest shareholders will be paid in gold.  Currently, the top 5 shareholders are bank institutions.  JPM is one of them.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:02 | 4392810 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Of course, by NOT providing physical if there is real demand for it, well."

But, if the derivatives are structured as a cash payout vehicle, the need for the underlying commodity is a moot point.  If it was booked as a hedge, like an insurance policy, then the payout by the guarantor or the counterparty would be in cash.  Just like with yuor State Farm policy, when your house burns down, they don't pay out in "houses", they "make you whole" monetarily.

The reason that I make this distinction is that the federal Reserve can simply print the payout if the derivative settlement terms are in currency, but they cannot if the terms are settlement in the underlying commodity.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:13 | 4392828 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Only Asians (mostly) demand payout in the underlying commodity...... and of course those kooky ZHers.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:43 | 4392974 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Times, they are a changing.....

When the balance sheet of the FED increases 300% in a few years VS a life of over a 100 yeares, the rules have changed....

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:54 | 4393509 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

Nice reasoning Iam_silverman..thanks

" they don't pay out in "houses", they "make you whole" monetarily."

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:55 | 4392460 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Presidential cufflinks give you certain godlike responsibilities.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:00 | 4392471 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

After that gold credit scheme going bust in China it looks like the Chinese may be ahead of JPM in rehypothecation.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:10 | 4392500 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Derivatives are the cancer, whether it be Gold, housing, or what have you.

Derivatives allow those with the most money to make the market.

Derivatives defeat a fair market and create cornered markets.

Derivatives are a hedge, thus the name ZERO HEDGE.

Derivatives are a cancer, fiat the tumors.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:55 | 4393135 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Derivatives are older than fiat currency.

Derivatives have been circulating currency longer than precious metals have been.

Derivatives are required if a producer seeks to hedge pricing risk associated with his production of a good.

On a long enough timeline... (say 5,000 years) it all becomes clear.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 07:06 | 4393144 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The only thing older than Gold is Pussy.

"Hedge pricing risk"...fuck me.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 08:20 | 4393150 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If you think that then you've never been a producer.

Wage slaves get their daily bread or weekly EBT, but risk is different when one is committing effort and capital for a return 12 months into the future, and some freak event beyond one's control could eliminate the possibility of being compensated for their efforts and commitment of capital.

In order for a stable and durable society to expand economically beyond subsistence agriculture-- a mechanism of pricing and transferring risk is essential. The great pyramids (which are largest and only lasting wonder of the ancient world) were only possible because of paper derivatives (technically papyrus). The primary circulating currency was grain, so a free man either had to be a (subsistence) grain farmer or be able to purchase grain for future delivery in order to pay one's taxes. Excess production (beyond subsistence) facilitated specialized farmers to spending capital on additional land and labor in order increase production and lock in a price for their goods & labor, and freed up labor an expanded non-farming labor pool, meanwhile non-farming value added agribusinesses such as bread and beer makers could take the other side of the producers contracts. The paper below doesn't focus on Egypt, but it does provide a quick and free overview of the lengthy history of derivatives usage.

http://www.uwa.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/94260/08_10_Weber.pdf

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:46 | 4393230 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Urban Redneck, you are completely right, yet this is not the point

he wants "derivatives" to be banned and I'm sure he is not meaning your examples out of production. some want the new sort of derivatives to be banned again

alternatively, have all kinds of bets and casino contracts allowed... outside of the banking system, not mixed with fractional banking (which should anyway be retail only)

all in all, it's just that: the laws and regulations were there, until the 80's. Glass-Steagall at their basis

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:29 | 4393266 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

But that's precisely the problem, if you build a house on a foundation of sand (or remove the foundation of an existing house) it will collapse. Ignorance of the foundation is foolish, as it allows the technocratic and bureaucratic functionaries of TPTB to expose a weak foundation to the arguments against their engineering.

The volume of the money supply can be tied to an underlying asset or liability or a purely mathematical or technocat dictated function (each has their benefits and drawbacks). If a banking system is paying money to depositors (interest), it must risk its deposits in order to pay that interest (absent technocrat dictated QE). Any regulation of the suitability of instruments and the amount of leverage that a depository institution can take are dependent upon the design of that foundation.

A derivative contract based on questionable, competing, or non-existent claims on an underlying asset or liability is lunacy (and ought be confined to gambling halls and individuals risking their own money).

If we don't learn from our mistakes, we go through the whole rinse, repeat cycle again- from the beginning, which is hardly an enlightened solution to our present predicament.

BTW- According to someone whose opinion I generally respect- those newfangled derivatives also grew out of certain interests' incessant desire for tax minimization and meeting the needs of duration mismatch between financial parties- and one of the four horsemen behind that apocalypse occasionally posts here.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:40 | 4393278 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

there are additional reasons to be against the new derivatives. Narrow example: CDSs on Sovereign Bonds

you could argue that it's ok to allow them

yet they distort the price of the underlying SovBond. and they make the market less transparent, particularly for an individual without an analyst's staff

two big reasons to ban them, not only from a top-down view, but also from the view of the citizen involved

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:40 | 4393473 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Add in the endless and mythical "risk transference" which serves to prevent proper balance sheet disclosure of risk. However, if someone wants to go Ladbroke's and place a bet with their money on when Greece inevitably defaults, or who will win the next World Cup, they should be free to do so.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 13:50 | 4393623 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Ghordius, thank you.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 14:10 | 4393647 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you are welcome. I repeat my core message: I'm a citizen. a sovereign bond is issued in my name. and I'm going to carry that shared load. so I want it simple to understand, to price and I want it transparent

so CDS are not cool, and should be banned. and for sure not be issued or traded by members of the bank system, then they have to be bailed out too regularly, in history

the yield used to be the risk-premium I was paid for to hold that bond. as a buyer of bonds, I want that money back being there, instead in bankster's pockets

---

UR, I'm not sure I understand your comment on risk transcendence

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 14:55 | 4393737 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Banks are supposed to invest in "safe" products. The problem is that the definition of "safe" is so subject to debate, interpretation and manipulation- for example: 1) the ECB deems the sovereign debt of member states to be states to be "safe" or 2) if a bank (even outside the EU) buys Greek debt yielding 10% and then buys Greek CDS costing 3% (net) the bank pockets a 7% spread "risk free" which of course can be levered up that much more because of the "risk free" or "safe" structuring of the investment (transferring the repayment risk on the original bond to a counter-party).

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 21:07 | 4394493 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

The problem is misrepresentation.

An item sold as a deposit (or warehouse receipt), is really an investment in a government monopoly enforced fractional reserve system.

Only one rule is necessary. Do not steal.

All wrongs involve theft of some kind.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:00 | 4393244 negative rates
negative rates's picture

So do the 7 deadly sins, but they are  ignored so people die.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:07 | 4393283 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

At this point what percentage of the people could actually name all seven sins, much less explain the rationale as to why each was deemed a sin?

Or for a stomach-turning thought exercise- what percentage of the political, financial and intellectual elite could do so?

Even if one is an atheist, it doesn't negate the importance to understanding the core concepts which have influenced human thinking and development.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:11 | 4392504 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

As a kid I wrote derivatives on my allowance money. And ya da yada yada I ended up owning a major sports franchise

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:37 | 4392591 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

I thought that was pretty good.  Shame on the serial junker.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:12 | 4392701 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Trolls on the loose.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:16 | 4392517 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

That graph does npot show Jamie's access to fort knox reserves. Simply borrow from Fort Knox via Da Fed, deliver fizzy, and repay FEd in JPM common stock. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:14 | 4392704 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

They don't need to deliver.  They can send checks.  The derivative market is all paper.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:52 | 4392982 mt paul
mt paul's picture

cheap fckers, it's not even paper anymore ..

just electronic data on a screen 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:17 | 4392523 joego1
joego1's picture

I bet they own the majority interest in the Fed stock too.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 06:59 | 4393141 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

JPM is the largest shareholder of FRBNY, which is the only Federal Reserve bank that matters on a global level, and which is also critical to controlling the broader Federal Reserve system. However, a single institution doesn't actually need a majority shareholding even of FRBNY in order to dominate the Federal Reserve system.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:50 | 4393233 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

though being the gold price fairy does help in that

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:00 | 4393246 negative rates
negative rates's picture

One man and courage, make a majority

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:26 | 4392557 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

WTF!??

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:26 | 4392559 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Derivatives issue will never reach new debt ceiling crisis discussion. The spend theft fucks will ask for more money they can’t afford. Creating a new terrorist attack will justify the new spending bill. Wash, rinse, and repeat until the other emerging countries drop the USD exchange currency.

Dear NSA, do you hear me now?

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:58 | 4392659 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Thank you for negative arrow. Your daily CB circus reports are coming to an end. Munch down on the cock that sends out false information to lure cash hoarding investors. My reply, MR. CB investor, give me your wallet for 30 days. After I gained 3%. We'll return your wallet.  

 

Fuck you cunts..

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:37 | 4392592 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

65:1 that's all? Does that include any "off-balance-sheet" gold?

 

 

>FASB 166, 167? That doesn't apply to us, sukerz!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:11 | 4392606 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

If ever there was a chart demonstrating what a farce our financial/regulatory banana ranchero has become...

Let me remind everyone who was in charge of "Regulatory Affairs" at JPM.

 

 

.

.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:10 | 4392694 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Blythe Masturbator. Order your comex in 30 minutes or lose the free delivery & side order.

/lol

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:16 | 4392706 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Blyth is the Wicked Witch.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:43 | 4392616 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

It looks like the gold market has JPM cornered

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:44 | 4392619 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

for God's sake... why do I have access o this information?! I mean , come on... please.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:50 | 4392631 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Goldman can crush JP Morgan. Oh my.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:21 | 4392850 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

in a second

If GS buys $50 billion in gold and demands delivery

all over red rover

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, HIGHLANDER

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:53 | 4392635 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Pay a fine, pass Go, and still collect $200.  That has been the Modus Operandi since '08.  At least with the S&L loan scandal, there was at least a token attempt to imprison some wrong-doers and 'make an example.'

This time around you are finding example after example of epidemic levels of corruption & collusion in almost every conceivable globally-traded market and essentially nothing of merit is done or even changed.  

US is essentially a banana republic and the only thing that is necessary for a full-on conversion is for the people to vote in a true dictatorship due a severe crisis. 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:17 | 4392846 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Modus Operandi since 1776, its called HAMILTONIAN-DEMOCRACY, 'rule by interest'.

Rule by PTB, if you don't have a 'very large interest', your not even a player, nor never were.

[ Federalist Papers, ... read them, learn the real american history ]

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:52 | 4392640 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Great reporting ZH!

Holy shit, what do we need to do in order to get these criminals arrested? Seriously, is some financial regulator not captured? Is some ordinary beat cop capable of understanding? Just show me one ordinary beat cop who doesn't want to swill a java, munch a doughnut, beat the shit out of an old lady and shoot a dog. Just one. Just man up, you fuckers and arrest Jamie Dimon.

Jesus, the Corzine affair was already so fucking "beyond" that it was a jump-the-shark moment. Now a corner of the gold market, and we can't get an arrest?

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:32 | 4392749 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

You can't legally take them out. The system has been in place to protect the banking thieves.

Money Confiscation Legal?

 

 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:55 | 4392648 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

Cufflinks *ON*

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:58 | 4392660 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

who's pulling me down?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:56 | 4392651 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

If you want to keep track of what the physical gold owners are up to:

http://www.ingoldwetrust.ch/chinese-gold-rush-heating-up

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:00 | 4392668 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

been here long enough to recognize serial junking going on and that is definitely the case with this thread.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:11 | 4392692 100pcDredge
Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:15 | 4392699 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

What I gleaned from the table presented.

-- Most of JPM's derivatives in gold are short term

-- the table does not tell us how much is short and how much is long

-- It is only $65B of total exposure. Anyone who can afford to send Uncle Sam fines of $20B on a routine basis can afford to lose $65B.  It is the other $71T in derivatives that could sink JPM if gross ever becomes anything close to net.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:15 | 4392707 billsbest
billsbest's picture

Entertaining, intriguing certainly, but who would be the counterparty holders?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:21 | 4392713 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

I dunno... Santa Claus maybe?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:46 | 4392777 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The money never existed, therefore no assets ever existed for bet tranaction. Got it?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:27 | 4392738 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I need some high quality printing paper, ASAP. 

  Blyth Masters

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:37 | 4392754 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

I'm sorry... we outof trees... for now.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:35 | 4392753 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

The Govt steps in fixes the price and outlaws private ownership. Jamie gets big bonus... IF TBTF start failing, the dominoes will all fall. 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:21 | 4392852 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

I'd like to hear about it when the US .gov is able to stop private ownership in Asia.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:50 | 4392897 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

USA CONTROLS GOLD ... NOT

I get really bored, I mean over here if you asked someboy, why GOLD GO UP or DOWN, its cuz of gold season in india, or new-year in china,... they got a 1,000 reason here why gold go up or down,

But nobody in asia would ever say gold go up or down cuz some dick heads at wall-street.

Just saying,

I agree in the USA they play paper-gold, and fine,...

*

There were parameters say when the US ran gold up to $1900 with the GLD and other paper ponzis, but now with paper gold down more than 50%, I think most got out,

I would suspect that paper gold has really ran its power course and now gold is on its own, worldwide,

Sure paper-gold (USA) had it day, but remember it was NEVER a factor in ASIA, as here GOLD is GOLD, if its NOT in your hand then you don't have GOLD.

ONLY a retard hairlip in the west would buy paper-gold.

 

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:54 | 4392905 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

Serial junker's mom sent him to bed?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:59 | 4392912 fijisailor
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