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Martin Armstrong Warns Ukraine Is Doomed After The Elections

Tyler Durden's picture


Further protests and a plethora of headlines this morning from both sides in the troubled European (for now) nation. The Ukrainian foreign minister begins by noting that "its impossible to take Ukraine away from Russia," that Ukraine was "right to take attractive Russia offer," and that protests aren't peaceful. Opposition leader Klitschko responded that "Ukrainians dream of a stable, modern country," and that a majority of Ukrainians want "European values," and asks for "international help." Romania's Basescu is concerned and urges the Ukrainian army to stay out of the conflict. But, as Martin Armstrong notes below, according to a former adviser to Vladimir Putin, the economist Andrei Illarionov, the Kremlin will take one of three possible scenarios with respect to the Ukraine problem to "assert a lot of pressure on Kiev."


Submitted by Martin Armstrong of Armstrong Economics,

According to a former adviser to Vladimir Putin, the economist  Andrei Illarionov, the Kremlin will take one of three possible scenarios with respect to the Ukraine problem. The most dramatic will be the establishment of full control over the whole Ukraine. Within the first half of February, Illarionov states that Russia will begin the total pressure on Ukraine, the purpose of which, will be to assert full control of Moscow over the country.

According to Illarionov, within the next week, Russia will begin to assert a lot of pressure on Kiev. Moscow has resumed a reduced trade war with Ukraine and there has been an information war against Ukraine put out by the government. In particular, there is a delay at the border of Ukrainian goods moving into Russia for 10-15 days. This is expected to increase domestic economic pressure in Ukraine.

The mainstream news in Russia portrays the Ukrainian protesters as criminals and what they are attempting to do amounts to a coup. Some even claim this will lead to a resurgence of Nazis and neo-Nazis power on the border. Purpose of this revolution in Ukraine is to accomplish, says Illarionov literally, is “genocide and the destruction of the Russian population.”

Others in Russia talk about the “reunification” of Russian lands, not that Ukraine is even a separate country. They place this in the news and the context is justified the same as German unification. The Eastern part of Ukraine was historically once Russia. This  is the same justification Iraq made on invading Kuwait. The Western portion of Ukraine was never part of Russia so this reasoning would not apply. Indeed, even in the West they speak Ukrainian whereby in the East they speak Russian. We could see Russia justify taking the East as a “reunification” but I would not expect anything before the Olympic games are over.

At the same time, according to the ex-adviser to Putin, Russia has increased its presence in Ukraine, in particular, in the Crimea and the Luhansk region, where the predominant Russian population live. They entered that region to protect the Russian population in eastern Ukraine. Additional Russians were sent into Sevastopol to protect it from the raging swells against Russians. All this gives the impression of a major well-prepared campaign that has just begun and will go on increasing in February. It is not much different from American troops being sent to a foreign land to protect Americans.

Illarionov believes that the active phase will begin immediately after the opening of the Olympics in Sochi, February 7-8th. It is unlikely that Russia would take any such action prior to the Olympics. What happens after the games, is purely political motivation. However, the Russian government will paint the Ukrainian protesters as criminals no different than Hoover called the Bonus Army criminals to justify military action against them in Washington back in 1932.

According to Illarionov, Russia’s options are

  • (1) establishing a baseline scenario control over the entire Ukraine. This would be the most appropriate option;
  • (2) pro-Kremlin politicians and political scientists see this as the federalization or confederation Ukraine in the context of reunification as a state subservient to Moscow. and
  • (3) llarionov suggests that if the first two options fail, then control over the Crimea, Luhansk , and possibly part of Sumy region will need to be established under this idea of “reunification” with Moscow over part of the country in the East joining the Russian population with their mother country.

Illarionov believes that the outcome is really predetermined and that whatever attempts are made to pretend to appoint a opposition Prime Minister of Ukraine, the decision is simply a stall tactic.

It is very clear that many Russian politicians call directly for a popular idea to recreate the age-old dream of reunification of Ukraine and Russia. It is very clear that many have never considered Ukraine as an independent state and call it “nedogosudarstvom”. From their point of view, Ukraine will no longer be so weak in relation to Russia, and Russia will not be as strong in relation to Ukraine, as it is today.

The Western powers represented by the EU and the US have nothing to stand on to protect Ukraine and can only offer lip-service at best. So once again, it appears that Ukraine is doomed and the best one can hope for there, is that Russia will allow the West to leave. The countdown goes forward and the political and economic crisis is indicative of what we see with the first shot across the bow in the rising trend of the Cycle of War.



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Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:28 | 4391618 samsara
samsara's picture

Thanks Tylers

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:54 | 4391681 john39
john39's picture

European values? wtf does that mean? debt serfdom as a way of life...

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:09 | 4391694 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

< We are ALL doomed after the elections.

< We are all doomed both before and after the elections.   

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:38 | 4391739 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Speaking of elections, the push for an Obama third term is just starting.   Dear Leader must be feared and respected.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:10 | 4391792 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> the push for an Obama third term

So you don't know what an op-ed is, eh?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:39 | 4391741 CoonT
CoonT's picture

Doomed? What does that mean? I can't wait for this shake-up, and boy is it long overdue. This means the end of TBTF, and the re-emergence of true competition. Counting down the minutes..


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:21 | 4392376 garypaul
garypaul's picture

I can't stand your avatar 0b1knob. I keep thinking my webpage is reloading.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:14 | 4392237 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Yes, we do have values. Actually everybody has some, if you are willing to look. btw, this guy talking about values is a famous boxer in Germany

Debt Serfdom? You mean student loans that can't be defaulted on? Both unknown, here

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 12:30 | 4393450 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

No. That´s the American dream.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:29 | 4391620 shutdown
shutdown's picture

As a humanitarian gesture Russia should annex Ukraine and put an end to the instability once and for all. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:36 | 4391635 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

That would end up being quite the tragedy for beautiful Ukraine.  Barroso would only tax them and tax them and then probably resource rape them and tax them again.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:08 | 4391785 shutdown
shutdown's picture

Oh, my. The horror! The EU wouldn't try something like that. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:17 | 4392245 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Barroso, the eu commission and the whole EU have no tax authority or power of the purse. Their budget is granted by the member sovereigns

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 23:04 | 4398716 B0R1K
B0R1K's picture

You are complete morun.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:28 | 4391622 VD
VD's picture

exactly what i wrote here 2 weeks ago. (after olympics putin moves in, etc.)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:56 | 4391663 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

1980 Winter Olympics didn't work out for Russia and US either, then it was Afghanistan.   History rhymes ?   This time they wait, so the riot is using its window of opportunity, now.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:29 | 4391625 booboo
booboo's picture

Yea, "uppity" sovereign american states should pay attention, the Feral Government will employ foreign troops and mercs to keep them in line too. The oligarchs just hate it when a group of folks start going off their programming.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:12 | 4391699 0b1knob
Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:35 | 4391632 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"Democracy" is a red herring.  Seems, this comes down to Oil, Gas and Petro-Currencies once again.

One of the reputable ZH writers please write about how the Ukraine fits into the Energy & Pipeline cartels, i.e. Russian, vs EU/US:  Where's the Energy (Oil, Gas), and where are current and proposed pipelines?

Go with the Flow, and you follow the money-trail.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:47 | 4391757 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

+100.  Awesome!  Thanks.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:59 | 4391773 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


Pipeline map.  That stuff goes to Europe.  It merely traverses Ukraine.

Russia is dominant and ppl just don't realize it.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:29 | 4391830 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Sadly most of the decent and thoughtful writers and posters decamped long ago.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:36 | 4391638 akak
akak's picture

I would take anything that Martin "Co-Opted And/Or Senile" Armstrong has to say anymore with an asteroid-sized pinch of salt.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:39 | 4391642 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

He's a Princeton guy...and from Jersey!   So yeah.  UPPED! 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:42 | 4391657 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Armstrong ... a massive FAIL!

The Litmus Test

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:54 | 4391689 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Armstrong has had a holiday to the Gulag Archipelago.  Have any of you armstrong bashers been there done that.   So tell us again what you know that Armstrong doesn't.   Spits!


Edit:  crickets

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:31 | 4391976 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

What has that to do with Ukraine?  If true, he doesn't seem smarter for it..

is it important to you?

If change subject looking for truth..better read Solzhenitzin "200 Years Together"

Can learn there it was not Russians in control..

Armstrong is no authority of these subjects.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:09 | 4392221 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Volkodav    +1

You ask  "What has that to do with Ukraine? "

1.   Most people wouldn't know where the various islands of the archipelago are let alone that some of them may now exist in the USA.  

2.   The crirtics of Mr Armstong think that now that he was released from his holiday in the archipelago he is now safely back in Freedom and that he is safe to shoot his mouth off.

3.   I think Armstrong is a well educated and experienced man and is qualified to comment on world events.

4.   Neither 200 years Together or Russia in Collapse are available in english language editions.   I guess that there isn't enough interest in the anglo world in A.S.'s writing anymore and the publishers think the books won't sell.   I have read nearly everything from this great man.

My guess is Armstrong feels lucky to be alive and knows his life may be in more danger in freedom than safely tucked away in his holiday apartment

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:14 | 4392509 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

There is demand for English 200 Years Together but has been blocked in west...There is a project to print outside, but I haven't followed progress about, I know who to contact..


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:37 | 4392594 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

I have a first edition The Oak and the Calf, unsigned unfortunately.    I was always impressed with his story of his exile and how he hid his writings yet circulated manuscripts by samizdat for critical review.  Fonestar wants us to believe BTC is secure when its out in the open.   The discipline and discretion required to live in those times.   I have much respect for those who lived died survived the soviet terror.

There was a project that I became aware of and then it died...suddenly.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 22:43 | 4394704 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Thanks, because Samizdat is now my new word of the day.  Unfortunately, I think it's a word whose time will soon come to the USSA.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:43 | 4392004 garypaul
garypaul's picture

I am just as good as Armstrong. Let me give you an example:

In the next 6 months, Market X will be up, unless it goes down. If neither of those things happen, there is a chance it could go sideways. By the way, I can tell you the price of Market X twenty years from now to three decimal places.

Does that about sum up an Armstrong piece? And does it really mean shit if he got arrested for fraud and spent some time in prison?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:08 | 4392225 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

You are a twit

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:25 | 4392388 garypaul
garypaul's picture

Great job refuting my points!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:58 | 4392464 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

What points?  The only thing you said is that you are just as smart brilliant stupid as Armstong.   You upvoted yourself too for that,.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 02:04 | 4392993 garypaul
garypaul's picture

Holy fuck you missed the sarcasm? Step away from the computer, you might break it.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 02:41 | 4393016 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Keep up voting your self

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:58 | 4391643 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

So once again, it appears that Ukraine is doomed

Another cheap propaganda piece that is becoming so common here (like the one on AIDS in Russia) before the Sochi Olympics.  Why do you think that joining the EU is the best choice for Ukraine?  Let the people decide.  If you do not like a government decision, you vote the government out in the next election.  You do not have the right to violent protests and calls for immediate elections.  Besides, we have John McCain going over and encouraging the opposition.  That is illegal, unethical intervention in the internal affairs of a sovereign country.

John McCain tells Ukraine protesters: 'We are here to support your just cause'

Western politicians who advocate freedom of choice for Ukraine, but say this must be a pro-European choice, have a strange interpretation of freedom, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told a security conference in Munich.

Lavrov was responding to numerous statements, including from the European Council President Hermann van Rompuy and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, which were voiced just minutes before at the conference. He also criticized Western support for Ukrainian anti-government protests, which he said ignored the darker side of the movements behind the violence there.

What does the inciting of street protests, which are growing increasingly violent, have to do with promoting democratic principles?” Lavrov said.

Besides the West has done so well spreading democracy and freedom in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia - the list is endless.

Heroin production in Afghanistan increased 40 times since NATO began its ‘War on Terror’ in 2001, the head of Russia’s Federal Drug Control Service stated, adding that more than 1 million people have died from Afghan heroin since then.

Fuck you, Martin Armstrong, for such blatant propaganda.  If you have any shame, you will never post again.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:14 | 4391698 cossack55
cossack55's picture

McShame and Putin have had this "biggest dong" thing going via twitter for a couple of years now.  I see Az is about to censure McShame.  I wonder if they can recall his demented ass?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:55 | 4391765 seek
seek's picture

He's already been censured by both the largest county and the state-level republicans, and they're trying to paint it as some sort of crackpot thing when I can assure you the vast majority of (R)s in AZ view McCain as an outright traitor.

It's not possible to recall senators, and it's never been attempted -- there might be a 10th amendment approach, but I think it's safe to say this would be a particularly difficult task given McCain's status as a top member of TPTB.

Many of us are hoping that he either doesn't run for another term, or if he does, that he's ripped to shreds in the primaries -- remember, the rank and file do NOT want him, and have gone so far as to censure him, so he's completely dependent on gaming the system and getting support from clueless seniors. I fully expect a multi-million dollar attempt to cram him into the senate again.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:35 | 4391840 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Mccain is a useful shill the Warfare State drags out when they want to promote bipartisan consensus on what group of brown people the federal government is going to kill next. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:16 | 4392526 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Fuck the people of Arizona for electing that shitbag.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 22:52 | 4394717 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

And fuck the people of CA for electing that shitbag Feinstein.  And fuck the people of WI for electing that shitbag Sensenbrenner, author of the so-called "Patriot" Act.  And fuck the people . . .

No.  On second thought, fuck all of those corrupt whores; not their victims.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:16 | 4391943 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

"Fuck you, Martin Armstrong, for such blatant propaganda.  If you have any shame, you will never post again"

as you cite immediately above a RussiaToday piece...hilarious (even Vlad the Putin would laugh at the obviousness of this)

Stalin stuck  a large chunk of Russia onto Ukraine .,. so all the wonderful thinkers and historians (is was not that long ago) can completley ignore what that did ......

Glad I do not depend on JustObserving for my security & well-being    (and I am no fan of John McCain) 

So it is ok to tell Russia take what you want with no consideration for at least half the country .......

let the country get broken up into 2 or 3 countries with the closest a 'buffer state' if Russia that truly paranoid

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:46 | 4391965 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

"a RussiaToday piece...hilarious"

You prefer the puerile, Pentagon-provided propaganda of the New York Times?

Yeah, the very New York Times that published all the lies of Judith Miller that led to the million plus deaths in Iraq. Yes, the very same New York Times that clears its stories with the Pentagon. Yes, the very same New York Times that refused to publish the Guardian story that Obama signed an agreement with Israel in March 2009 handing over all the NSA data collected on Americans without any legal restrictions. The credibility of the New York Times and its propagandists is less than zero to put it gently.

On Monday, the Times public editor Margaret Sullivan was compelled to respond to a barrage of emails from readers demanding to know why the newspaper had failed to write one line about the secret NSA documents released by Snowden showing that the agency was funneling raw data, including the telephone calls, emails and other online communications of American citizens, to Israeli intelligence.

“Friends of mine who never before believed that newspapers suppressed the truth are shocked by the evidence before them,” wrote one reader.

Sullivan reports a discussion on the matter with managing editor Dean Baquet, who told her that the story wasn’t “significant or surprising” and that the paper had more important things to do, such as “cover the turmoil in Syria.”

In other words, the NSA-Israel story was news that didn’t “fit” the Times overarching propaganda line in favor of a war in Syria that is intimately bound up with Israeli interests.

Front page of New York Times 9/8/2002:

Page 1 NY Times story by Judith Miller and Michael Gordon cites anonymous administration officials saying Saddam has repeatedly tried to acquire aluminum tubes "specially designed" to enrich uranium. "The first sign of a 'smoking gun,' they argue, may be a mushroom cloud."

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:01 | 4392469 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Stalin was not Russian.

From 1917 thru Stalin was not Russians in control.

Stalin did what he want...Mostly to Russians. Russians suffered more than any.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:49 | 4391653 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Being allied with nobody is best, but if forced to choose between being allied with Putin vs being destroyed by Brussels, the Ukraine is best off with Putin.

Putin's major interests are his power, and Russian nationalism.  If you don't threaten those, he'll basically leave you be.  Those are rules that are predictable.

Brussels, OTOH, actively goes about controlling, raping and destroying economies, meddling into the personal and public lives of everyone, and continually assaults every nation and person under its thumb with a dizzying bombardment of rules, regulations, controls, monitors, etc until they have zero liberty left and are nothing but enslaved shells, subservient to the soviet EU dictates. 

Given that choice, Putin wins hands down.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:08 | 4391926 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

VV Putin main is Russia...not his personal power any beyond serving Russian people as he knows the history better than anyone here...

especially a know not much like Armstrong



Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:16 | 4391948 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

wow .... a KGB believer in our midst

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:23 | 4391956 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

and I certainly am no proponent of the EU - its own misguided exercise ....but to inflate the Putin balloon ...come on man

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:18 | 4392710 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

On ZH, Putin is somehow a respectable leader who just isn't one of two things - either a classic frontman for who really runs the Russian kleptocracy since Yeltsin and his cronies were cast aside or a member of the kleptocracy who played a key role in sweeping the 1st generation of post-Soviet cronies out of power to install his group and himself in power.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:12 | 4393075 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

PUTIN is the only face on earth standing up to the Bully's, e.g. the USA.

This makes PUTIN both admired worldwide, and admired on ZH.

Nobody likes a bully, or a liar. The USA is both.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:25 | 4393084 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

PUTIN is a man

Obama is a man-twat

You decide which country is best.


Brussels has destroyed EUROPE, its not even debatable anymore, now they just need fresh-flesh ( ukraine ) to feed their ponzi.


Fascinating that in less than 30 years of the wall coming down that the WEST would go STASI, and EAST would go FREE.

Brussels MUST build a wall to keep people from fleeing 'occupied europe' from heading east to FREEDOM.

Of course they'll say its to protect wealth, as we know your wealth belongs to Brussels, aka Goldman-Sachs, ...aka IMF.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:46 | 4391664 aka_ces
aka_ces's picture

This reads like Martin Armstrong got an editor.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 15:58 | 4391685 hairball48
hairball48's picture

If it gets real bad, do old geezers like me stand a chance of getting a cute girl for a "roomate"?


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:26 | 4391719 stock trout
stock trout's picture

As always, depends on how much $$ you have and are willing to pay for said roommate, no matter how bad things are. No doubt Ukrainian young women are hot and genetically perfect, but even after buying one you will need a tight leash and megadollars to keep her around for more than 3 months. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:46 | 4391751 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

They tend not to age well hence the phrase " princess to plow horse " so you need to replenish your stock regularly.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:08 | 4391789 hairball48
hairball48's picture

I take y'all's point, but I'm 66. I might not last more than 3 months with one of those cuties!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:00 | 4391907 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

If sincere want a wife, not asking for trouble...look age 55 upward...check your attitiude first...the best ones are smarter than any in west and will diagnose you quick....

Restrict to east and south,most Ukr are family oriented, but from smaller cities better..

Russians are better as average, less emotions and western sense of self entitlement ideas. Smaller cities better same as Ukr.

Siberian Ladies make best wives, most beautiful, durable, stable and dedicated. Siberians are good people.




Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:23 | 4392269 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well, at least you will die happy! ;-) Mr Miffed has told me this is the way he wants to go. Sometimes during some particularly rambunctious times I get a tad nervous! ;-)


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:07 | 4391786 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

My fat, balding German friend ordered a Ukranian hottie for his wife.  After the wedding, he bankrupted himself shoveling platinum jewelery, French haut couture and Swiss watches at her.  Now she is brazenly chesting on him with an Eastern European in an "open marriage."  Guy is miserable.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:26 | 4392731 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

Serves him right for going after a "hottie". Doesn't matter what country they're from, "hotties" are high maintenance and little reward. Caveat Emptor.

Long before internet dating sites in Russia or Ukraine existed, I married a Ukrainian woman. It was nearly 22 years ago, and guess what? We're still together today. Maybe she's not a "hottie", but neither am I. I was looking for someone to spend my life with that shared the same values, and that's what I went after and found. She can cook, sew, clean, go to work, raise kids, and do everything as well or better than the "traditional" American female used to do years back. In case you're thinking I was looking for a slave, note that I share all the duties I mentioned here (except sewing, I don't have a clue how to do that), at times I do more than she does, other times the opposite.

Most of the Russian/Ukrainian women we've met here in the US that were considered "hot" are now divorced and on the prowl for new sugar daddies. Not for me, thanks. My advice, if you're over there looking for a woman, look closer at some more "average" females, she'll take care of you forever. (Note: the average Russian or Ukrainian female still looks better than the average American female) You take care of her, she'll take care of you. And for God's sake, stay away from Moskva and Kyiv women, nothing but trouble - trust me on that one. Stick to the smaller cities or towns, or if possible, find someone from a village.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:38 | 4392964 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Agree  I posted similat advice..better in smaller cities and country.

Include Siberia, Omsk, Tomsk/Seversk,  Novobirisk, Barnaul etc...many as beautiful as anywhere and super devoted. 


Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:27 | 4395050 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

Volk, mine was from a medium sized town in northern Ukraine (I'd rather not mention the town) but I discovered right away how much more down to earth these women were. So many great catches there, if you just open your eyes and don't try to find a "hottie". I met many "average" women when I was there and most of them are sweet, down to earth, and devoted. All they really want is a reliable husband and life partner. It pains me to see how some really nice people are overlooked by stupid American men (note: I'm American myself) that only want a 21-year old skinny blonde. These guys are only setting themselves up for a downfall, as I said earlier, they deserve it. They're too stupid to see the forest for the trees.

Now that I've spent so many years with my wife, I think I understand as well as any American man can, how the average Ukrainian woman thinks (although, of course, men will never fully understand women, no matter where they're from - LOL). That's why I believe that most guys that go over there with unrealistic expectations will come back sorely disappointed, or they will bring back someone that will eventually leave them. There might be some exceptions, but the rule is the same - if something looks too good to be true, it probably is. Old geezers from the west should stop trying to relive their childhood by marrying someone that is 30 years younger. Only someone like Hugh Hefner can get away with that, for obvious reasons. For the rest of you, open your eyes, there are some real gems out there if you just look!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:13 | 4391697 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

Someone who believes that Russia is behind the corruption in Ukraine and by joining the EU this will somehow change and the country becomes better to live in , must be naive or stupid.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:47 | 4391872 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

both...EU elite parasites has unelected officials working to enslave...

while Russia has kicked Oligarchs and much in progress...

many ran to UK for easy asylum, some jailed...others less evil told can stay if they behave themselves



Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:19 | 4393082 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

BUILD A WALL when this is over,

There will be the CIA/MOSSAD side, and then the KGB side,

Funny if the KGB side is the good-guys and the west, mossad side is the bad guys

The way its going is the east/west is already being divided, and no doubt a WALL will go up,

I really believe that PUTIN if he can keep up his game, will be the big winner,.. it would be fascinating if the EAST ended up being the OPEN side, the socialist-nazi-west ended up being the 'closed', but its heading that way.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:19 | 4391708 Joe A
Joe A's picture

So if Ukraine were to be split, who inherits Chernobyl and would be responsible for the cleanup (for the next couple of thousands of years)?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:00 | 4391901 bombdog
bombdog's picture

It's already paid for.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:19 | 4391709 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'American' all the way. What an article.

Maybe recapping the situation:

In Ukraine, the government is legitimate regarding 'american' standards as they supported the election of it. It has nothing tyranical the way 'americans' depict tyranical.

Part of the places is rioting against that legitimate government. Part of the place includes militias drilled in urban warfare. Part of the place includes acknowledged nazi groups.

In spite of that, the ukrainian government cant respond with appropriate force and must submit.

Who backs that part of the place? And 'americans' would want people to believe that the backers are losing in Ukraine no matter what?

'Americans' are once again employing that famous scheme of denial of self defense. The ukranian government cant defend. When it happens on negroes, well, it happens on them. 'Americans' want to sell the idea that when reduced to the status of a negro, you are going to win?

Russians'd better to wake up. Through their ukranian proxy, they are associated to negroes. Still time for them to decide that in an 'american' world, it is not the best thing to do.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:58 | 4392204 akak
akak's picture

I came.

I saw.

I blobbed-up.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:24 | 4392271 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

For some I think it's the reverse.


Sun, 02/02/2014 - 08:28 | 4393186 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Real politik is a nasty mother. It reveals nations as they are. It doesn't take rocket appliances to depict this.

Priorly was misportrayed Ukraine under dilemna of Chinese citizenism epidemy, but false alarmingly as later determinated was merely John McCain standing on roadside. Anytime American citizens do something for free, it tells.

That Lanced Armstrong story was seminal in some sort, exposing the freedom of speek US kind. Bandwagon income tax, 1913 drivel and all...

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:21 | 4391712 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Euro or Russian puppet?

I think I'd go with the gas heat and the crooked cucumbers.

Straight cucumbers are of small value in freezing winter temps.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:48 | 4391758 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The long game choice is between Ukraine being a USSA puppet or reconstituting the USSR, because the big game is all about whose bitch the EU will become... once she treats the nasty balance sheet VD.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:15 | 4393076 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

UKRAINE: People Don't want NSA/CIA

The IMF(NSA/CIA) needs UKRAINE to complete their puzzle EU-UN-IMF.

The people of UKRAINE don't want the IMF(EU), so they have no choice but to ask PUTIN for 'protection'.

At least the people of UKRAINE have a choice, nobody in the USA ever had a choice or the ball's to say "NO".

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:02 | 4391777 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Russia is the #1 source of oil in the world.  If you have to be a puppet, that's where the strings should be powered.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:40 | 4392017 negue
negue's picture

Just because the puppeteer is "the #1 source of oil in the world", it doesn't mean oil will leak down those strings.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:35 | 4391731 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

America is going to spread "democracy" whether the recipients like it or not.

Perhaps this is pay back for Russia's support of Syria.

Perhaps after the Olympics the real games will begin.

There is no doubt however that the protestors are trying to bait the Russians ahead of the Olympics.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:33 | 4391732 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

No matter where you stand on this issue, the fact is Ukraine would quickly escalate into a pivotal change in the political/economic/military dynamic of Europe//Russia/US much the same as Taiwan would be with China. All signs indicate the US should remain vigil but neutral allowing democratic forces within Ukraine to play out over time. If push comes to shove, Russia will simply send in the tanks and NATO would expose it's weakness. I would like to hear some words of wisdom from an expert I have learned to respect who also comes from Eastern European background---Former National Security Advisor Z. Brzezinski

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:44 | 4391746 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Brzezinksi, is the scum of the Earth, he helped create America's Imperialistic Agenda, the New American Century, and he is for the NWO and supports the everything that is evil in this world!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:09 | 4391790 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

Would agree that early on Brzezinski having come from Polish aristocracy
was very anti - Soviet but after the fall of USSR now is more subdued. However, his Views on the Arab /Israeli issue as well as objection to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are quite realistic and critical. Would also agree some of his views on global regional strategy and return of Poland as Center of Europe are off the wall.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:39 | 4391740 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

I'm from Ukraine, and Eastern and most of Central Ukraine want to be with Russia. Western Ukraine supports Stepan Bandera.. google him.. he fought on the side of Hitler's SS in WWII. A lot of the people at Evromajdan are fascist oriented and I don't know why Western media ignores this fact all the time.. No other population on planet Earth gets to get away with being so openly fascist as in Western Ukraine.. And just to give you guys a history lesson, KIEV used to be the capital of Rus!!!! we are traditionally the same people.. Your western politicians want Ukraine to split up and put NATO troops in KIEV! Thats why you spread all the lies and ignore the amount of Nazi oriented protesters there...Fuck this, if Ukraine splits up there will be a civil war and most of it will go to Russia and I support it. FU western politicians. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 16:52 | 4391755 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Btw, European values means allowing homosexuals and pedaphiles (In Netherlands) to get married... great fucking values (and forgot to mention.. they have big poster of Stepan Bandera at evromajdan and lots of Nazi symbolism....) even Israel is worried about it... 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:20 | 4391812 negue
negue's picture

You're just one dude from Ukraine. You can't possibly speak in the name of the entire eastern and most of central Ukraine.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:30 | 4391834 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

and where you from?

better worry about your country..cos you know nothng about Ukraine..

trouble is from the west, many of which are not Ukrainian blood and also many outsiders...

they need be chased past lviv to poland



Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:38 | 4391845 negue
negue's picture

Actually, my grandparents lived in Ukraine.

Also, I live less than 30 miles from the border with Ukraina.


Oh, I am worried about my country, believe me.


Quick note: the same speech was used in neighbouring Romania in 1989. The supreme leader Ceausescu implied there are foreign agents infiltrated in the population, leading to unrest. I'm not to say it wasn't true, but just pointing it out.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:56 | 4391896 bombdog
bombdog's picture

Did you see all the EU guys in Kiev at the demonstrations? And even the devil itself, John McCain turned up to the party. If that's not foreign agents, then what is?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:48 | 4391882 bombdog
bombdog's picture

"No other population on planet Earth gets to get away with being so openly fascist as in Western Ukraine"

Interesting point, but the winner of that prize is probably Israel the "Nation for Jews".

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:08 | 4392226 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

Current revolution in Ukraine is a fight between people and agonizing dictatorship regime. Putin can clearly see himself in the same situation in a few years, so Russian propaganda machine is working full steam now.

Anyhow any dictator should remember that very few dictators died of natural causes in their own bed in recent 30 years.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:22 | 4392264 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

I would worry mor about dictator Obama if were u... And nice avatar, ur obviously hating on orthodoxy with it.. Pro fascist I presume?


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:26 | 4391824 negue
negue's picture

Why is it only a choice between EU and Russia for these people?

Regardles, I'd choose EU anyday. In fact, my country chose EU just a couple of years ago.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:30 | 4391831 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Historically Ukraine has been the meeting place of cultures and religions, most recently, the Catholic faith and the orthodox Christian faith. Poland ,of course, in the center of this Catholic influence and Russia the center of Orthodox Christian faith. It got so bad several centuries ago that the Czars helped form a new church taking much from both faiths and trying to make it the faith of Ukraine. That idea failed. So, going back, at one time a large Lithuanian empire held much of Ukraine, The Tartars in the south always raided Ukraine and held parts of it, Cossacks set up as rulers of the southern parts under Czars. Poland's empire at one time held most of Ukraine, as Polish power collapsed Russian power expanded until today. The USSR and Czars shared control of Ukraine, when each held Russia. Now when USSR died, Ukraine Soviet Republic became an independent nation, BUT totally split between Catholic West, Orthodox East and left over Cossack and Tartar Powers in the South. So Ukraine has never been an independent united nation, we must understand that much first.

For all the years I've read Russian history, Ukraine was a hotbed of trouble between the west leaning Catholics and the east leaning Orthodox. When I am in Russia, people talk of Ukraine as their brothers, many friends I know in Russia are married to Ukrainians of similar religious background.

I see a very pro Russian Orthodox Christian east and south, who will go to war before they accept EU control. This is fact, it is not debate, because it is fact that can be verified and proven. Now, the west Ukraine wants to join Europe and be a member of EU so that NATO will for always defend Ukraine as free from Russia. These people, mostly Catholic or nationalist, reside in the west Ukraine, but populations are mixed to degrees all across Ukraine. This means conflict on the local level is possible, when Germany conquered Ukraine in 1941, the pro west and pro German right wing took instant revenge of Jews and others not of Catholic Ukranian backgroud. Even when the Red Army returned in 1944, some of the right wing nationalists fought the Red Army but lost. Stalin used his terror to take full control of Ukraine again and make it a Soviet Republic. I noted how after USSR died, a nation called Ukraine was born, a nation divided deep to it's core. The spit is about 50/50, Pro Russian / pro EU, the divide is mainly East and South, versus West and North.

Personally, if Ukraine trys to stay as one nation, then the conflict that has gone on for over 500 years will continue. The West will never subjugate the Russian Ukraine, Russia will never subjugate the Nationalist,catholic,pro EU Ukraine.

I prefer this fake nation finally settle it's problems. The new nation of Ukraine with all rights and freedoms should be allowed into the EU and given full status as a democratic nation. This nation will be the west/north that wants the EU and wants to be ruled from Brussels. The rest of the old Ukraine, Crimea, East and South Ukraine will return to Russia as an indpendent republic inside the state of Russia, not a nation, but a republic of the state of Russia.

This solves the problem, but it will require people to choose if they want to live in one or the other Ukraine. If the EU and Russia send forces into each territory, they can oversee peaceful transition and freedom of movement between states and sale or compensation for property and land left behind in any moves. People should have a right to use the market place to unload land or homes in a free fair manner, then move should they want to.

If the West refuses such a peaceful fair solution, then I can tell you that the EU and USA are fomenting a revolution of conquest and seek to add all of Ukraine to the NATO empire using armed force to do it. Should they follow that path, and not allow peaceful settlement, but seek full conquest, then Russia should send the army and secure Russian Ukraine and Crimea with armed forces and seek to destroy any force invading the Russian Ukraine or overflying it. If NATO wants to conquer Russian people, I can tell you, Russia will fight. This is a good test for the EU/USA, are they seeking conquest, or the solution of a centuries old conflict inside present day Ukrainian borders. My guess is that Obama and his neo-con gang are in this for a full conquest and will settle for nothing less than total taking of all present day Ukraine. If Putin is so blind as to not see this, then I overestimated him as a leader.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:33 | 4391836 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Sorry of that was long. but this is a complicated issue, sound bites are useless in trying to understand it. So USA media is useless as an information source. I have heard USA neo-cons on USA media, and to hear them speak, they are out for blood, they are using all the code words to impy a USA take over of Ukraine as an act of freedom spreading. Remember free Iraq, free Afghanistan, free Libya, free Syria? A free Ukraine under USA neo-cons will be a blood bath.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:08 | 4391922 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

I disagree sir ...... way too much to cite ... and i have no dog in the fight but I know Ukrainian history better than many Ukrainians do

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:51 | 4392328 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

Sorry to tell you but the religious was a hot topic in Ukraine probably 200 years ago. Not any longer. There are priests on Maidan which represent all branches of Christianity, along with Muslims and Jews. There is even an "interfaith" tent on Maidan where representatives of any religion can conduct a prayer.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:24 | 4392386 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Yeah and those priests are on different sides of the barricades.. With the orthodox priests behind Berkyt, the Ukrainian special forces and the Catholik and raskolniki (Orthodox that split from traditional orthodox church --- all western) on the other side.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 00:21 | 4392851 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

From what little I know about Ukranian history, this is how I see it:

Ukranians were not so much fascist as they were anti-communist.

Maybe the untold millions (far more than the holocaust) who were purposefully STARVED by the Soviets (i.e. RUSSIANS) in the 1920s or 30s had something to do with their joining the Nazis?

I would be pretty pissed off to if what happened to them them happened to me.

Google NKVD.


Sun, 02/02/2014 - 16:02 | 4393921 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Soviets = Russians? Better look that idea over again. The worst communist criminals operating in Ukraine were Ukrainian Communists and young Jewish communists from the city of Kiev and other bigger towns. More ethinic Russians died uder Communism than any other group. Leadership was mostly Non-Russian, check the record on that. The only Russian national who came close to being a leader of the party was murderd by Stalin, Stalin was not Russian, nor was he Ukrainian, nor was he even Slavic. The true story of Soviet Communism, does not show ethinc Russians as being the leaders of that sick evil movement. There are studies in which all leaders names are recorded, ethnic orthodox Russians are not the communist leaders in proportion to their numbers in the USSR population. Read the history of Ukrainian starvation, people all over the USSR dies, just like pesants of Ukraine. Rural people across Russia were starved to death in order to feed the industrial workers who modernized the USSR economy.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:42 | 4391854 bombdog
bombdog's picture

Thanks for posting. Armstrong is full of shit and provides the same dreary one-sided analysis we can get anywhere on the MSM.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:31 | 4392293 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

now this is truly an excellent post. and I see you revised some earlier excessive views

yet one thing: "the EU" is strongly divided about it

quite a lot of parliaments are sympathetic yet unwilling to push

and cutting Ukraine to pieces is not only quite a cavalier thing to even propose - particularly from the outside -, it would be also very difficult

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:46 | 4391861 negue
negue's picture

Here's an idea:


  1. Sochi big boom
  2. Blame it on Ukrainian opposition (throw in some "youtube evidence", seems to do the trick)
  3. Invade Ukraine to get rid of "terrorists"

Any thoughts?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:09 | 4391931 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

yeh....get lost

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:27 | 4391968 negue
negue's picture

...or what? You'll turn off the gas?


If I may point out, both you and that Sasha89 dude registered on ZH after the protests started. It is of course but coincidence.

That earlier reply, "better worry about your country", you used that before, on another Ukraine & Russia related article. And basicly you only comment on articles involving Russia and its interests. Wonder why.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:09 | 4392230 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

I've been reading zehedge for years now, and yeah I registered around that time because I take this issues personally and felt the need to comment... I'm seeing my country being split apart, you would probably want to comment too if u had this happening in America! And jack burton above me brought about some good points all of western Ukraine is mostly all catholic or grecko-catholic while eastern southern and most of central Ukraine and northeastern is orthodox and the catholic part is pro-facsim and pro western... They can split of and make Lviv their capital, but they'll never take Kiev! Yes, I take this very personally, so fuk u.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:26 | 4392394 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Sashko89  you are not alone...exact same here..agree with all you tell..and that is from families on the ground in Kiev and area..real Ukrainian blood, use Russian language, resent working successful while thugs destroy public property and make expenses that normal, useful Ukrainians taxes will pay for....








Sat, 02/01/2014 - 22:04 | 4392477 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Spasibo, a to zaebali eti dolboejebi uzhe. Osobeno etot s avatarkoj patriarha s zvedoj krasnoj, voobshe polnastju proplachenajya shluha zapada navernoe, ot urokov otvlekaet menya blin)

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:13 | 4392234 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

Man, you are reading my mind! I had exactly the same thoughts about their registration time and both of them comment only on Russia/Ukraine-related articles obviously citing some FSB manuals.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:14 | 4392244 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

And you mus be from the NSA? Or the CIA dipshit?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:10 | 4392358 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

I post cos it is first  subject that suffers with most ignorant posts parroted from lying media.

That I know something about and have witnesses on the ground Kiev and area. 

Of course I and Sasha89 "dude" are both FSB just arrived here to aggravate you...

there are reliable knowledgable sources for Ukraine, Armstrong is not one of them





Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:53 | 4392190 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Well... it worked in Boston


1. Boston big fake boom

2. Blame it on patsies

3. Invade Cambridge and Watertown

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:49 | 4391875 squid427
squid427's picture

Terrorist attack on Sochi winter olympics

No terrorist attack on Sochi winter olympics

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:56 | 4393239 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

A false-flag attack is not a terrorist attack.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 17:51 | 4391886 squid427
squid427's picture

I think even if there is not an attack at the games Russia will find some excuse to take action against the Ukraine

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:03 | 4391915 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

Some econ/fin folks are just must reads or 'not to ignore'>    For me.....ZeroHedge, Mish, MarketAnthropology, Faber, JRogers, DecisionPoint, Aden Sisters, StockCharts, Tom McClellan, Richard Rhodes ....and Martin Armstrong.

Armstrong has tried to refine cycle theory as best he can on a cross-market basis (cycles in each of the various martkets) with an attempt at a broader societal overlay - ambitious (foolhardy?).

Barron's last year made quick cite of Armstrong's prediction the equity markets would be solid-to-maybe-stronger-than-many-guess (whihc turned out on the money).  He is somewhat agnostic on precious metals subject to cycle application.   His Chinese New Year, 2014, is a very jumpy horse because next year gets even more volatile.  

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:31 | 4391977 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

"... The Ukrainian foreign minister begins by noting that "its impossible to take Ukraine away from Russia,"..."


So Ukraine is the possession of Russia.  All right.  Now that we have that cleared.



Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:43 | 4392023 negue
negue's picture

Now that you pointed it out, I re-read that phrase. Because first I thought it was the Russian FM making that claim. Damn!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:26 | 4392274 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

Many members of Ukrainian govt. in during presidency of Yanukovych are Russian puppets. Minister of Defence was a Russian citizen till 2005, Putin is a godfather of children of (a Ukrainian oligarch and a "gray cardinal" which has a lot of influence on Yanukovych).

Parliament member from Yanukovych's party was a Russian citizen til 2012.

There are suspicions that Moscow holds documents about criminal records of Yanukovych whch he had back in 60-ties along with documents proving collaboration of Yanukovych's father with Nazis during WWII.

Moscow holds unfortunatelly too many strings in Ukrainian gvt.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:26 | 4392279 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Fuck you neocon, why is it so hard for u westerners to understand that half of Ukraine has relatives in Russia and vice versa, plus the same religion and patriarch and language and history, with the exception of Bandera/facsist/catholic western Ukraine we re the same people Russian and Ukraine are brothers and sisters.. Once u understand that u won't be making so many stupd posts anymore... Oh and Belarusian too all brothers!

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:34 | 4392303 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

Everybody are brothers man! That's why Ukrainian people no matter to which etnicity they belong are united in their will to throw the dictator and his junta from Ukraine.

Next in the row will be the mustached redneck along with the pale pygmy.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:50 | 4392322 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Yeah if we were all brothers u wouldn't have that disrpectful to orthodoxy avatar..and the problem is that wester neocons are financing the profascist western Ukrainian groups to destabilize Ukraine and split it from Russia, because that's what's on ur imperialistic agenda.. Stop typing comments like everyone is a moron cuz not everyone eats fried chicken and gmo corn.. And too ur earlier post, I've also commented on gold vs bitcoin articles taking the gold side and the new school of Austrian economics with professor fekete (in favor of it) not just Russian articles so fuck off and go spread ur propaganda elsewhere..

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:31 | 4391980 W74
W74's picture

Ukraine should split.  You have two distinct Slavic tribes living on the territory, both, by and large, geographically distinct and separate already.

The Czechs and Slovaks went their separate ways.  The Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, & Montenegrins, all went their separate ways (and Serbs and Croats speak the same damn language!). 

So which method of departure will Ukrainians and the Ukrainian-Rus choose?  Peacefully as the Czechs and Slovaks chose, or violent?  My guess is the latter will occur as Muscovvy and the Crown in London have too much at stake. 

It is, after all, Halford Mackinder's heartland.  Those who do not consider Ukraine to be of Geopolital and Geostrategic importance are either not trained in the subject or are deluding themselves.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:38 | 4392002 negue
negue's picture

Most gas fields are in the east, as pointed out in this comment. So I'm thinking Moskva migh settle with the eastern part of Ukraine. For now.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:41 | 4392162 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Maybe the US can split as well......North/South, Rich/Poor, Black/White, Republican/Democratic....

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:33 | 4392301 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

I have dibs on splitting with the faction that has all the cute single women.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:28 | 4392284 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

The "split of Ukraine" is new card which Russia plays at the moment. which "tribes" you are talking about?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:40 | 4392431 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

I disagree about distinct different tribes. dna says otherwise but certainly varies.

Ukrainian ethnic and Russians are much closer than the poles of Lviv and other west of Kviv

oversimplify like the radicals call Russians mongol. when dna shows not much and not widespread.

in fact some Russia region have been found to be more German dna common than Germany

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 23:31 | 4392743 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Yup and it is the sensible thing to do and would be the best outcome for those in Ukraine with a western state that could become part of the EU while keeping their Ukrainian language/heritage/customs and the Eastern part which would be absorbed into Russia as a province/region, speak Russian, and follow Russian customs.  It wouldn't be easy to draw the lines exactly but it would prevent further bloodshed and allow the Ukrainians to get on with things. 

Putin won't allow any part of Ukraine to fall into the EU sphere as it is too close to the doorstep of Russia and the Russians having been willing to kill/wage war for 3 centuries to have access to the Crimea and the ports on the Black Sea. 

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 18:46 | 4392030 Nassim
Nassim's picture

If you follow the link given at the end of this article

You will get a page at the bottom of which is a link to another article entitled "Global warming will sink Ukraine, leaving only the Crimean peninsula"

This suggests that Martin Armstrong should check a bit more carefully on his sources.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:48 | 4393232 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

What's this Global Warming you speak of?

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 19:48 | 4392173 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

nedogosudarstvom bread basket.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:47 | 4392316 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

I have been to the Ukraine on business about 5 times and have a Ukranian speaking employee that keeps me abreast of things there, as well as other Ukranian friends I have made over the years. THis article is slanted. I know of no Ukranian who does not have a deep memory in their family of Stallen engineered starvation and suffering. If Russia tried to take it over directly, it would be ungovernable. If you have doubts, check the temperature at night in Kiev now where continous outdoor day and night protests have been going continously for about a month or is it more now. On the other side The Ukranians I know have no resentment of Russian ancestry Ukranians, only Russian governance.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 20:59 | 4392340 Puppet Hegemon
Puppet Hegemon's picture

good comment! the protests has started 21 Nov 2013, so it's more than 2mo already.

Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:50 | 4392450 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Stalin was not a Russian.

From 1917 thru Stalin was never Russians in control.

Soviet is defunct.

Ukraine has made own bad choices, but especially failed Orange "devolution" supported by western interferences.


Sat, 02/01/2014 - 21:52 | 4392451 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Once again its mostly fascist supporting western Ukrainians that were displaced by Stalin... Ur uki employees must be from western Ukraine.. And they probably don't resent Russia because they know the economy of Ukraine depends on the Russian speaking east..

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 01:23 | 4392939 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Opposition leader Klitschko El Capitano Americano.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 04:31 | 4393086 kurt
kurt's picture

I vote for an Independent Ukraine. Neither EU nor Russia. Ukrainians need to root out spys and agitators. The LAND is what this is, and has always been, about.

With the land and resources and internal leadership they have, and have always had, enough. The problem has always been infiltration and expropriation and manipulation. They need a saint to drive out the snakes.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 09:40 | 4393224 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

The-Ukraine is a vassal of Russia.

Russia will not allow that situation to change.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:15 | 4393257 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Bullshit.  Ever heard of Poland? 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 14:10 | 4393656 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

I heard that Russia regrets losing Poland to the West.

I heard that Russia despises Poland's NATO membership.

Will Russia let The-Ukraine go?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 08:29 | 4393185 bombdog
bombdog's picture

If anyone actually wants to know about Ukraine and Russia, read The Saker:

(but if you just want to read about how Putin-is-a-fascist don't bother)

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 10:13 | 4393254 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

Old Russian language proverb " teshe ydem, dalshe budem" which means
" the quieter we proceed, the further we will get". This certainly applies to the situation in Ukraine----no need for hotheads, instigation or agitation. Far too many foreign interests seeking to dominate for imperial and commercial reasons. We need some " Time Out"

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 14:36 | 4393701 novictim
novictim's picture

Just more propaganda and misinformation.  Russia has -not- invaded the Ukraine.  


But the latest round of distortions is the meme that the Ukrainian "Pro-Europe" movement is a right wing neo-nazi movement.  

Stephen Cohen, emeritus professor at Princeton University and NYU, is claiming this very loudly on several forums.  Why?  And why now?  Here we have a nation that wants the rights of free speech, freedom of the press, the right to peaceful assembly and a culture that leans away from corruption...and the Prof. Cohen is trying to get us all to side with Russia?


I don't understand the game being played by Professor Cohen.  What is to be gained by him?  I need your help, ZH, to figure this out.

Is he concerned about increasing his own influence in Putin's Russia and sees this stance as helpful?


Stephen F. Cohen's grandfather, while speaking only Lithuanian, Russian and Yiddish, emigrated from Lithuania (then part of Tsarist Russia) to the United States.[1] Stephen Cohen was born in 1938 in OwensboroKentucky where his father owned a golf course.,[2]and attended Indiana University, where he earned a B.S. degree and an M.A. degree in Russian Studies. While studying in England, he went on a four-week trip to the Soviet Union, where he became interested in its history and politics. Cohen, who received his Ph.D. in government and Russian studies at Columbia University, became a professor of politics and Russian studies at Princeton University in 1968, where he taught until 1998, and has been teaching at New York University since.

Cohen is well known in both Russian and American circles. He is a close personal friend of former Soviet PresMikhail Gorbachev, advised former US PresGeorge H.W. Bush in the late 1980s, helped Nikolai Bukharin's widow, Anna Larina, rehabilitate her name during the Soviet era, and met Joseph Stalin's daughter, Svetlana.[citation needed]

Since 1998, Cohen has been professor of Russian Studies and History at New York University, where he teaches a course titled Russia Since 1917. He previously taught at Princeton University. He has written several books including those listed below. He is also a CBS News consultant as well as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Cohen has a son and a daughter from his first marriage to opera singer Lynne Blair, from whom he is divorced. Cohen is now married to Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of theprogressive magazine The Nation, where he is also a contributing editor. They have one daughter.

Fri, 02/07/2014 - 13:24 | 4412198 negue
negue's picture

I knew it! link

Breaking News: A Ukrainian trying to hijack plane that landed at Istanbul wanted to go to Sochi, Turkish transport official tells CNN. 

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