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Guest Post: Ukraine Is The Wrong Fight To Pick With Russia

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by L Todd Wood via LToddWood.com,

The United States’ rapport with the Russian Federation is one of the world’s most important bilateral relationships.  Russia maintains a large nuclear arsenal and is a resurgent player in world affairs.  One only has to look at Russia’s recent role in the Syrian civil war and the Iranian nuclear problem to see Putin’s desire for ensuring Russia remains a powerful player on the global chessboard.  Bashar al-Assad staying in power after murdering thousands of civilians with weapons of mass destruction, and the possibility of the Iranian Islamic state acquiring nuclear weapons have very real consequences to American security.  Americans would be wise to understand the rich history of the Ukrainian region before interfering in its internal affairs and angering Moscow when there are more important issues with which to take a stand.

Ukraine was the heartland of the old kingdom of Kievan Rus.  At one point the most powerful kingdom in all of Europe, the state included modern day Ukraine as well as Belarus (White Russia) and parts of modern day Russia.  In the thirteen century, Ukraine was overrun by the Mongol Invasion and many of the Slavic peoples moved to the northern cities of Moscow and surrounding areas.  Northern Slavic power developed into the Russian Federation we know today.  For the last eight centuries, Ukraine has been ruled by many outside entities including Lithuania, Poland, and the Soviet Union.  Ukraine finally became independent in 1991. 

Russia has considered Ukraine to be a vassal for the last five hundred years.  Russian President Putin has routinely referred to Ukraine as a Russian state rather than a free and independent country.  Putin has whipped up anti-American sentiment in order to keep the threat of American trickery on the top of the ordinary Russian’s mind.   The bottom line is that Russia considers the Ukraine to be in its sphere of influence and theoretically a part of Russia. 

The result of all this history is that I believe it’s impossible for the West to unilaterally pull Ukraine away from Russian control.  Actually it may be dangerous to attempt to do so and that effort my carry long term global consequences.  Ukraine should be left to sort out its own problems.  This view may be harsh but it is also realpolitik.  The United States should stay out of this possible brewing civil war.  The visit from John McCain and American State Department officials carried a very high media profile and needlessly inflamed U.S.-Russian relations.  These types of efforts only serve to give the Russian government ammunition to excite anti-American sentiment within Russia and foster coercive measures by the Ukrainian government against the opposition and for Putin do to the same against the opposition in Moscow.  Fifty-four percent of recently polled Russians consider America to be the number one threat to world peace compared to twenty-four percent of the rest of the world.  The Kremlin’s propaganda has worked well.  Sending American officials to Kiev only fosters this view.

Iran obtaining nuclear weapons however, is a different story all-together.  Here we have a state that has actively called repeatedly for the destruction of the state of Israel.  Iran has recently used weapons of mass destruction via its vassal in Damascus against the Syrian opposition.  We are on the brink of a major arms race and nuclear escalation in the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia is rumored to be acquiring a nuclear capability to oppose the Iranian threat.  This region of the globe has been a flash-point for the world throughout history.  In my humble opinion, this would be an area to take a stand.  This would be an issue on which to confront Putin and anger the Russia bear.  The consequences of not doing so are horrific. 

How would the United States react if Moscow was able to exert influence over Mexico and install a pro-Russian government?  What if Mexico was to consider joining the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia?  What if Mexico openly talked of joining a Russian military alliance against the United States?  One only needs to look to the Cuban Missile Crisis to discover the American reaction. 

America needs to take off her rose colored glasses and look at the world with a Machiavellian view.  We should decide to intervene in centuries old conflicts only when there are clear American security interests involved.  Unfortunately for the idealistic leaders of American foreign policy, Ukraine does not meet this test.  The Ukrainian people have shown an ability over the two decades to have a natural ability to take matters into their own hands and are quite capable of deciding this issue among themselves.  

 

L. Todd Wood is a former special operations helicopter pilot and bond trader.  His first of many thriller novels, Currency was published in 2012.  He is a contributor to The Moscow Times and splits his time between NYC and Moscow.  LToddWood.com

 


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Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:21 | Link to Comment National Blessing
National Blessing's picture

The Ukraine is in a pile of shit.  Russia is the wrong fight to pick.  Now they are learning the hardway.  Putin is a vengeful bastard.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:26 | Link to Comment Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

This article is worthless.  The comparisons are worthless.  Should the US become involved?  Who cares.  The US is over involved in foreign affairs, period.  Right now no one is as powerful as they seem, Russia and the US included.

I am sure there is some Sun Tzu quote about how those that overplay their hands bla bla bla bla.  Russia will fall like the US government will; they are all using crap shoot games to keep the house of cards standing, and at the slightest wind, it will blow down.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:39 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"Right now no one is as powerful as they seem, Russia and the US included"

Except they both still possess the capability to destroy the world many times over.  And there are a lot of dumbshits with access to the nuclear launch codes.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:46 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

The president of Russia a cool dude, who rides a Harley and is a real man.

The president of the USA, aka 'bathhouse barry', is a lady-man, and only known for being passed in the chicago-bath-house (AIPAC OWNED, think Rahm, & Cass ) and holding the record for being penetrated.

*

Who are you going to respect? Which country has cred?

Russia has POWER, ameriKKKa has HIV, enough said.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

The Ukraine belongs to us!

...so does Belarus, Estonia, Poland, Latvia, all the Sandwishstans, etc. What doesn't Putin understand about that?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Forgot the 'sarc' tag, or having fun testing the readers?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:23 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

"the idealistic leaders of US foreign policy".......

hahahahahahhhhhhhhaaaahhhhh....

What a stinking pile of dogdoo. 

ZH is showing soem very "interesting" article selections of late.

Idealistic leaders....really? Who the F wrote this shit and what is it doing here?

ori

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:50 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

AIPAC Offer's to Store Indian Temple Gold

It's a good story, and the post is coming tomorrow to ZH.

Essentially the gist of the story is that IRAN is going to NUKE Bangalore (India) and hold them hostage to get all the temple gold.

Of course AIPAC say's never fear, if your store all the GOLD from the temples in Israel it will be the safest place on earth from the Iranians.

There is even a 'cross our heart, hope to die', it will not lease the gold to a third party /sarc-not.

 

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:10 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

'And his customers included Seal Team Six.'

Fuck me, why do I read this shit?

 

Stack On

 

 

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:13 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

"truth is always stranger than fiction, fiction has to make sense' - mark twain

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 07:18 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

"The United States’ rapport with the Russian Federation is one of the world’s most important bilateral relationships"

 

WRONG!  to start with ... 60 years to late.... it is a NEW WORLD out there ... people get up and smell the coffee, but again, it is difficult to change, perhaps these guys thats what they did for the last 50 years.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

L Todd Wood has intentionally omitted the historical fact that Ukraine was also a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (now the EU) before it was occupied and forced into the Soviet Union.

One can easily make the same arguments (as he is trying to make to justify Russian aggression and Putin's Hitler-like ambitions) that Ukraine belongs in the EU and not with Russia.

Also, L Todd Wood needs to learn about Holodomor (artificial famine imposed by Stalin's Russia on Ukraine) and the Ukrainian genocide before he gives his ignorant opinions.
http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Stalin was not a Russian

Stalin did same to Russians and worse. Russians suffered more than any.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Simply because Stalin was not a Russian (but a Georgian) means shit, the same as it means shit that Hilter was not a German (but an Austrian).

Putin's Hitler-like ambitions of invading and enslaving Ukraine are not any different than when Hitler invaded Poland.

Poland used to be a part of Germany (Prussia), so the "parts of Ukraine used to be a part of Russia" argument is simply stupid.

I'm surprised that Zero Hedge keeps posting such stupid articles on this website that attempt to twist history to justify and to provide cover to Hitler-like Putin's ambitions.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:52 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

"Who the F wrote this shit and what is it doing here?"

Manufacture of Dissent.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 08:34 | Link to Comment johny2
johny2's picture

The site is morphing into just a good financial news site. There are some nuggets of gold to be found, but more and more sand has to be sifted for it. 

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”


? banned comentator

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:58 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

"The president of Russia a cool dude, who rides a Harley and is a real man."

Yeah, all he has to do now is rescue a bear cub and he's in!

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:49 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Bah humbug
What with the Illuminati loosing their grasp, the MSM flailing about incompetently, the worst SuperBowl in memory, the peasantry badly depressed, we need a rallying point, something to draw us together, so I say Invade the Ukraine!
Think of all the welfare recipients, unemployed (50% at least of the population) we have all the warm dumb bodies to send into glorious combat for the sanctity of Der Fatherland, rally the National Spirit, decrease U for Janet, make work for the workless, think of the astounding enhancement of the lazy folks self worth, meeting new people they've never seen before, and slaughtering them wholesale.
What a way to soften the human footprint upon wasting scarce resources, implementing the Gates/Rockefeller Eugenics program, living in concert with the Georgia Guide-stones....
I say invade Ukraine, Now!

That or a weekend in Vegas.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:16 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You better review your history of WW11. Invade the Ukraine is very, very, bad idea.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:06 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Here's the actual history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

The German war aim of WWII was not "Ukraine" in case you were wondering.

I highly doubt the US "war aim" is "Ukraine" either.
Self determination...peaceful coexistence...etc.

I think a lot of Europe has it in for Putin...that is what has started this whole thing...if i were to hazard a guess "the USA will do what's best for the USA."

we're not gonna throw the Kurds under the bus.
The same is true of the Ukranians.

If they do in fact gain their independence (again...not a war aim for WWII)...something that would involve having their own currency in my view...then again maybe not...well, they're gonna earn it either way.

Clearly a lot of debt restructuring is in order either way.
I'm sure Wall Street will be banging down that door to get in.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:58 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Get your Mom to pack ya an extra pair of very warm socks and hand warmers.....and three pair of long johns.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:34 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm not a fan of either team, but I got SO tired of all the Denver and Super-Manning hype, that I was delighted with the thrashing they took.

Humility is good for the human soul.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 06:30 | Link to Comment Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

I was just thinking that you'd need to put in the /sarc tag or else some idiot would take you seriously.

 

And right on cue...........

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:06 | Link to Comment 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

How would the United States react if Moscow was able to exert influence over Mexico and install a pro-Russian government? 

Replace "Mexico" with "Cuba" and the point would be?   Exactly what?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:19 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

the point is exactly what you know it is; do you pretend not to understand global power politics?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 07:49 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

How would the United States react if Moscow was able to exert influence over Mexico and install a pro-Russian government?

 

That's happening north of Mexico's border.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:43 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

How would the United States react if Moscow was able to exert influence over Mexico and install a pro-Russian government?

I am thinking a lot of drugs would no longer make it into the US. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:36 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

Sun Tzu say when enemy is destroying itself sit back and enjoy popcorn.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 08:43 | Link to Comment johny2
johny2's picture

I say the same. With all its media power, economy control, military assets etc, the empire built on the back of the enslavement and death is surely sinking, and it must be its karma that is sinking it. 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:56 | Link to Comment theliberalliberal
theliberalliberal's picture

Stop linking to your shitty blog

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 18:50 | Link to Comment The Squid
The Squid's picture

Where is Francis_Sawyer???

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Lin S
Lin S's picture

Ahem. 

Here's where your cred turned into a steaming pile of dog shit:

"Bashar al-Assad staying in power after murdering thousands of civilians with weapons of mass destruction, and the possibility of the Iranian Islamic state acquiring nuclear weapons have very real consequences to American security."

FUCK OFF, AIPAC.

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Maxter
Maxter's picture

I totaly agree with you here.  This article is just a big pile of propaganda.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:18 | Link to Comment Unique Snowflake
Unique Snowflake's picture

Agreed. Ayyone who uses the expression "weapons of mass destruction" is the most obvious stooge for pro govt propaganda. Not to mention the old chestnut of fearmongering via 'they got dem nukes' message. Fuck off Todd, from Todds Bullshit Blog.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Pity I couldn't give the article a zero. Or a minus five.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:17 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1

L. Todd Wood is a former special operations helicopter pilot and bond trader.

So he had two jobs with the Illuminati.   The guy sounds like a douchebag.  As far as Bashar al-Assad and the Syrian Army.  They were the ones protecting Syrian Christians along with Putin and the Russian Navy from the Saudi Al Qeada gang backed by the US, Muslim Brotherhood Turkey, Qatar, Jordan and Israel

Who was the first navy to send ships to help the USS Liberty and to help the wounded and dead?  The Russian Navy.  McCain's old man with orders from LBJ sold out the USS Liberty and recalled F4 fighter bombers and ships.  The US Navy eventually showed up.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:38 | Link to Comment SovietCong
SovietCong's picture

This article is a disgrace and has no place at ZH. The author shows off his skinny-deep understanding of a complex geopolitical issue, making judgments that are downright silly. I mean, I could literally pick at every sentence in the initial three paragraphs pointing out egregious mistakes. The bottomline suggestion, that the U.S. should leave Ukraine to Russia because otherwise Putin will get upset is like saying that the U.S. should get out of Japan, because it annoys the Chinese. 

The only benefit from reading that bunch of crap is that it helps explain why American foreign policy is mired by so many rookie errors: if the policy is informed by pseudo-analysts and self-proclaimed experts who provide decision-makers with this kind of stuff, no wonder they go from blunder to blunder. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:35 | Link to Comment NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

It's paid propaganda. People have to pay the bills. That is just the way it is.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:09 | Link to Comment kashey
kashey's picture

If it's propaganda then we should ask in whose favor since it's so clumsy it can be nothing but counterproductive.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Escapedgoat
Escapedgoat's picture

IMHO  ZH is trying to keep us on out toes with a little bit of negative reporting, and to keep us sharp and focussed

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:41 | Link to Comment ignl
ignl's picture

Totally agree. ZH should take a look at its own standarts first before complaining about cnbc etc... This article is ridiculous...

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 06:38 | Link to Comment Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Freddy, what you say about the Russian Navy helping the Liberty is correct.  McStain's daddy held off to give America's Israel 'allies' time to finish off the witnesses.  The point though is that, IMHO, literally not 1 in 100,000 Americans is aware of this.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:28 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

The pro-Palestinian convoy's visit to Iran is historic

"President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says the occupation of Palestine is a historical problem and the existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to freedom, justice and all independent nations. 'The Europe and the US spend tens of billions of their wealth on the Zionists every year to help a criminal regime…continue its unlawful occupation [of Palestinian lands],' President Ahmadinejad added. 'Despite all apparent liberal claims of the Western states, nobody is ever allowed to raise a question or conduct a research on how the Zionist regime was established,' the president said."

"President Ahmadinejad further stated that the Zionists try to pitch states and nations against each other and create a rift between governments and their people and spearhead international terrorism."

"'The issue of Palestine is not an argument between one person and another or a conflict created between the followers of one prophet and another, but it is the dispute over Palestine, a dispute over dominating and managing the world,' Dr. Ahmadinejad added."


The Office of the Supreme Leader, Sayyid Ali Khamenei

"Looking into this trend of evil, as manifested in recent years in atrocious operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon and Pakistan, leaves no doubt that it is designed and masterminded by heads of world imperialism and Zionist think tanks which have the highest degree of influence in the government, the military and security agencies of the United States as well as Britain and some other European countries."

"For years those things held sacred by millions of oppressed Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan, in Iraq, in Lebanon and Palestine have been desecrated, all their rights and their dignity trampled on. Hundreds of thousands killed, tens of thousands of men and women captured and tortured, thousands of children and women kidnapped, and millions injured and made homeless - all victimized for what? And with these wrongs, why does the Western media represent Muslims as violence incarnate and Islam, and the Quran, as a menace to humanity? How can one believe that this vast conspiracy could be made possible without the support and involvement of the Zionist circles in the US government?!"

"The Zionist regime, since the very beginning of its creation until now, has continued shamelessly and openly its terrorist acts outside and inside Palestine. Both the former and incumbent leaders of the Zionist regime feel proud of their terrorist background and in some cases, of their direct involvement in terror operations" (Source).

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:41 | Link to Comment WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

And your point is ... ?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:11 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

FORWARD!

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:34 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

"And with these wrongs, why does the Western media represent Muslims as violence incarnate and Islam, and the Quran, as a menace to humanity?"

Technically speaking, the Quran is only a menace to half of humanity, that is if you share the belief that women are human, and therefore endowed with the same rights as men.

as for violence incarnate....

Fight all you want amonst yourselves.  Makes no difference to me.

Bring it to MY home, however, and here's what you can expect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaxhdcHlKGc

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 10:51 | Link to Comment acetinker
acetinker's picture

Ditto.  I immediately scrolled to the comments after reading that sentence.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Confundido
Confundido's picture

Todd, you've got it all wrong. This is not about the US and Russia. This is about the European Union and Russia, which is why the US and the Brits stay neutral. They do not want the Germans to become a superpower. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:21 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

the european Union and Russian, aka NATO; is exactly what it's all about. The United States remaining neutral;!! You are completely out of touch.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:49 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

It's all about the gaz, and the pipelines carrying the energy. Western Europe doesn't have much for energy supplies, Eastern Europe has lots of energy, and it flows from East to West through Ukraine.

It's a push me pull you place to be.

It is all about energy, and the Anglo-American cartel which wishes to control the energy.

 

Stack On

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:45 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I think this is about coal myself...which is far more valuable than natural gas.

This could become a Civil War...although my understanding is that these protests have spread to Eastern or "Russian" Ukraine as well.

Also the President has returned to work...which probably doesn't sound like a big deal but I imagine Putin handed down the orders and they were followed.

I really don't think Russia fears "America" on its "doorstep."
I'll never understand the whole Cuba thing actually.
I do think Russia is always worried about its immediate neighbors.

Let's see here...that would be...
Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany...
did i mention Germany?

Oh, yeah. Don't forget Sweden either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Boat_90
That thing is pocket rocket.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine
yes they are planning an updated version of that too.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:56 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Leave the stinking coal in the ground. There are bacteria there, living and farting. Drill a hole into the seam and burn gaz bitchez.

 

Stack On

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:08 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

The SYRIA war was sold by AIPAC(MOSSAD/CIA) because they want to put GAZPROM out of business.

In this second atttempt, AIPAC(MOSSAD/CIA)  comes back and try's once again to put GAZPROM out of business in UKRAINE.

*

Everytime KGB win's,... street credibility on Israel keeps dropping, ... pretty soon SAUDI will have to hire better protection,...

If I were Saudi, I would be talking to PUTIN, and get some real men to protect my racket.

*

Israel is desperate for OIL/GAS revenue, they can steal, but they have no market. They're not stupid they know that unlimited uncle-sam FIAT is a limited free currency, with an abrupt END on the Horizon.

Israel is on a non-stop war with the world to secure OIL and OIL-MARKET's (EUROPE), before they're caught with their pant's down.

Make no mistake in todays NWO if&when the USD collapses ISRAEL will be dead in a week.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 03:32 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Zion is worried about what the stone platforms represent.

You've gotta dig a little deeper.

As above, so below.

Stack On

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 06:05 | Link to Comment X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

the georgia guidestones?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

ignorant post.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:36 | Link to Comment Flammonde
Flammonde's picture

Israel has weapons of mass destruction to include nuclear submarines and SLBM's.  It has also developed biological weapons.  Iran is a regional power, it probably has nuclear weapons already and has not called for the destruction of the Zionist entity.  Israel seeks to be regional Hegemon and provoked the civil war in Syria with the help of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the US and the UK.  Israel also has called for the overthrow of the Iranian government by force and backed Georgia's unwarranted agression against the Russian Federation.  The aim of the West appears to be to break up the Ukraine or at the very least provoke a civil war.  I agree that this is dangerous, but it is also part of a longer term strategy of aggression against the Russian Federation.  In other words it too is Realpolitik.  There are no white hats in the game of nations.  The Russian Federation is an existential threat precisely because it exists and is allied with Syria and Iran.  It is percieved as weak and is a tempting target of opportunity.  The gamble is worth the risk in Western eyes because it might succede in hurting Russia.  

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Germany to sell Zionist regime new nuke-capable submarine

"Germany has announced that it will sell Israeli regime a sixth Dolphin-class submarine capable of carrying nuclear warheads with an operating range of 4,500 kilometers (2,800 miles)."

"In November, a German government source had said that the country would pay a contribution of 135 million Euros ($178 million), a third of the cost."

"Three earlier-model Dolphin submarines had been delivered to the Zionist regime between 1998 and 2000."

"This is while the Zionist regime of Israel is the only possessor of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and it has never allowed inspections of its nuclear facilities nor has it joined the Non-Proliferation Treaty based on its policy of nuclear ambiguity."


"Israelis bought two Dolphin submarines from Germany in the 1990s (half paid for with U.S. funds) and modified them to carry nuclear-armed cruise missiles with ranges capable of striking any nation... . The cruise missiles fit neatly into the subs' torpedo tubes" (Source).

"The Israeli Dolphin (Type 800)-class submarines have four 650 mm tubes. They are each capable of firing a submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) with a range of at least 1,500 km (933 mi)" (Source).

"Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles" (Source).

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 06:47 | Link to Comment Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Isreal bought the submarines???     I thought Israel got all this kind of stuff free?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 07:50 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

They bought one. Got five for free. Nice 'deal' huh?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 09:31 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

Eitherway the cash used was free so what's the difference?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:56 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

The US government and Germany both shared the direct costs as quoted above, but that doesn't include their other largesse. The jews are the queens of the FSA.


A Conservative Estimate of Total U.S. Direct Aid to Israel: More Than $130 Billion

"The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs' current [2013] estimate of cumulative total U.S. direct aid to Israel is $130.212 billion, updating the estimate in the November 2011 issue."

"It is an estimate because arriving at an exact amount is not possible, since parts of U.S. aid to Israel are buried in the budgets of various U.S. agencies or in a form not easily quantified, such as the early disbursement of aid, resulting in a direct benefit of interest income to Israel and a corresponding loss to the U.S. Treasury."

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:38 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I have no immediate position on Ukraine, but this misses one very big strategic point that is driving the thinking: Poland

Poland is a very big ally of the globalist/spook establishment. They are the go-to NATO ally for finding surrogate operatives or plausibily deniable global adventurists. Poland is the real buffer between Europe and Russia, economic and military.

Ukraine is a very big X on Poland's map of the world and Poland does not want its immediate next door neighbor to be in Mother Russia's orbit of influence.

You can bet they are on the horn screaming bloody murder about this each and every day.

And who knows what spook secrets they will have to tell if they feel they are being double crossed yet again.

So if one wonders why the narrative is saying mobs of Ukrainians are dying to be bankrupt Europeans, think Poland.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

Correct WB,Poland was under the Russian Bear Claws for 50 years.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:27 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The Poles have the unpleasant historical position of being caught between a Russian rock and a German hard place. And they make no secret of their views about it. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 08:10 | Link to Comment 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

they are quite racists, yet they have now army of working young people, maybe the biggest in continent, country is on the rise

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 09:11 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

With Poland's history of both neighbors taking turns destroying their country, I think one can forgive Poles for having a somewhat jaundiced view of their motivations.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:22 | Link to Comment kashey
kashey's picture

No, it's not the reason. After Mongols crushed ancient Rus that part of it which now is Western Ukraine was occupied by Poland. And Poles supressed it much, actually Ukraine willingly joined Russia after numerous Ukrainian uprisings against Polish yoke. And Russians several times refused Ukrainian request because Russia was a decade ago invaded by Poland too and wanted to heal woonds first. Then Russia agreed and Poles started the war but lost it. So Poland is just furious it pushed Ukraine into Russia and wants it back.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 08:28 | Link to Comment 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

poland wants, russia agreed, ukraine joined..........

 

majority of citizens of these countrie have no interest in all this, they want to wake up, take kids to school, go to work, do their job, come back, have sex, eat well, travell a lot, go to cinema, buy a new car....they call it life

 

yet very small minority  in each of these countries have direct interest in this, they also want to wake up in the morning but there the similarities ends.

 

fuck them in the ass one by one

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:26 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

overwhelmingly, what we learn from history is; it doesn't matter what Polands' opinion is. Sad, perhaps, but that's the way it is. Ukrainians are confused arnd pressured from two directions at once. they must, however, remain, close allies and financial partners with russia; nothing else is possible in the real world.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:38 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

correct, WB7. Poland feels it has lots of reasons why they want Ukraine to be in the same clubs and alliances as they are, and not in any Russian-led one. and they are only at the top of a long list of EU countries that have similar feelings on the matter, like Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia

the rest of the Easterners are very sympathetic to this cause: Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary and the Czech Republic

further, there are other countries that have an anti-Russian hegemony stance in principle. best example: Finland

and this has little to do with your nevertheless important fact that "Poland is a very big ally of the (...) spook establishment" (took the "globalist" out 'cause it's very debatable)

all those countries used to be Russia's buffer, btw. Yet you have to count the Mother of the EU Enlargements in this: the United Kingdom. The one country that has had an Anti-Russian stance since the Crimean War, and feels it has to thwart the Russian Bear in any move of the Great Game

but of course the most visible man in East Europe is... US Senator McCain. Which of course leads to speculations of CIA involvement (edit: scrap "speculations", we all know that Ukraine is full of American and Russian agit-prop agents).

Yet the US influence on those matters is not as strong as many would like to think, and the Easterners are "players" in this "game". The UK and the US, pushing for European Union enlargement (remember Bush Jr. on those matters?), have started all this, yet now it has a life of it's own

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 00:27 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

 

 

"The one country that has had an Anti-Russian stance since the Crimean War, ..."

That was certainly not the case from ~1940 to ~1950. The Russians were using a gifted british jet-engine (a good-will gift, in fact) within the MiG15s used in both Korean and also Vietnamese air wars against the Western colonial hedgemeonic force holding on within Asia. The Russians took full advantage and pissed on the UK's hand in the late 1950s, once they had tested the Joe-1 bomb (and let's not forget Berlin-wall making). And when the UK obtained A-bombs, and then thermonuclear bombs plus a viable early IRBM, the geopolitics of the longer-term strategic relationships resumed.

Stalin was a dickhead, he and Russia could have gained so much more from a closer relationship with the UK, and thus much of the copious bloodshed of the 'cold'-war, need never have occurred. But undoubtedly the US was determined to keep Russia as suppressed, spied-on and strategically undermined as possible. And given the Russians had been gifted the A-bomb design and support technologies by fifth-column duel-nationals of a particular tribe (who also kept it for themselves, of course) I can even understand the US's reaction to that, as well. The cold war and commie-russian paranoia became inevitable at that point, because it did have a firm basis, and it just was not 'kewl' to pay out on the jews (who actually deliberately produced that global nuclear standoff situation, entirely on purpose) within hollywood and media-TV-land manipulated USSA, of the 1950s.

And so they got clean away with it, both then, and now. No one even talks about it. The endless guilt-trips of WWII got them off the hook when it certainly should not have. And they were anything but allies, then, or now. And they will not hesitate to produce such a situation again if they're given the chance too.

But that's what we must never speak of ... even on zh ... it's just not kewl to tell the whole truth.

 

If only the truth was not so damned racist objectivity and honesty might actually exist.  ...  /sarc

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:36 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

Iran has recently used weapons of mass destruction via its vassal in Damascus against the Syrian opposition.

WUT? Who shot who with the what now?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:59 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

Well ltoddwood I knew what you wrote was a lie about Iran threatening Israel and it took me all of twenty seconds to find multiple links to that fact.

Here's one of those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZmffEQmKr8

Massive FAIL if you need to lie to make your story.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:42 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

The Office of the Supreme Leader, Sayyid Ali Khamenei

"The Iranian people and their officials have declared times and again that the nuclear weapon is religiously forbidden (Haram) in Islam and they do not have such a weapon. But the western countries and America in particular through false propaganda claim that Iran seeks to build nuclear bombs which is totally false and a breach of the legitimate rights of the Iranian nation."

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:37 | Link to Comment william114085
william114085's picture

"Iran obtaining nuclear weapons however, is a different story all-together.  Here we have a state that has actively called repeatedly for the destruction of the state of Israel."

 

drop dead, scumbag...."repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel"?  That is zionist propaganda...repeat a lie enough times and it will become truth??...and when was the last time Iran started a war?  

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:45 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

It's been over 200 years since Iran started a war.

Edit - 1826 was the year Iran last started a war.

http://www.dailypaul.com/178779/the-last-time-iran-started-a-war

So 188 years to be exact.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 06:45 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Wrong. It's happened in within the last 50 years. The Iranians actually achieved their objective in a timeframe that's makes a Six-Day War look incredibly slow.

Libtards (regardless of whether the libertarian or liberal flavor) need to stop trying to make up their own facts, it just facilitates negative portrayals and perpetuation of the status quo.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:59 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

What happened in last 50 years?

Please if you must, disagree with facts.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:26 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

November 1971 - the invasion and conquest of Abu Musa and the Tunbs.

Last I checked it was a fact that 1971 is more recent than 1826.

(There are very legitimate reasons they are ridiculed as Paultards)

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

And whom was the supreme ruler in 1971? A US puppet?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 16:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You can't be that stupid... there was no Supreme Ruler in 1971 (you could at least use a title was used by the Head of State at the time), or are you one these lower primates who flings feces like "the US overthrew the democratically elected President of Iran" (to cite the idiot-speak most often seen around here)?

Facts are Facts. Iran has started a war and invaded foreign territory within the last half century.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 19:16 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

You may know something about electricity, but I'd say your history is a little weak. Does the name Kermit Roosevelt ring any bells? What did Kermit do in Iran in the late 1950s? And whom was he working for when he did it?

I wonder? You apparently don't. Isn't that convenient.

As for slinging feces -- you have a handful of it...

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 19:35 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Actually I knew Kermit since I was maybe five years old, the last time I saw him was a few years before he passed away at a family wedding.

Perhaps you should read what I wrote more carefully, and if you are still perplexed - even Wikipedia correctly states Mosaddegh's title, from there it's civics 101.

There's something about Iran that makes people on ZH lose all grasp of FACTS, which prevents any sort of objectivity.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Well, that's certainly good to know.

But facts are what I am interested in... just what did dear old uncle Kermit have to say about his work for the companty and role in Iran?

I'm not arguing over titles. I'm interested in who rules, whatever their title might be...

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Well if it's facts that you're interested in - then get them correct. Mosaddegh was elected by 79 parliamentarians as the 3rd Prime Minister of 16th Majlis in 1951. Later that year (the then-democratically elected) Mosaddegh rigged the elections of 17th Majlis, and in July of following year he resigned his office. He was reinstated by dictat of the Shah a week later. Those are the facts. Mosaddegh was never a President of Iran, he was wasn't quite "democratically elected" to the actual position (62nd Prime Minister of Iran) that the CIA and MI6 conspired to depose him from (and paid others to actually depose), and the Shah wasn't even crowned King of Kings (as close to Supreme Leader as he was ever titled) until over decade after all of this had passed. Politics is dirty business and the CIA, KGB/GRU, and MI6 do the dirtiest of the dirty business of their respective governments.

All of these historical events took place within a larger strategic framework of the US and USSR competing for influence and force projection in the Gulf, while at the same time the British were losing both influence and oil interests. There is no such thing as a benevolent State or innocent Statecraft (on a national level, only the pursuit of national interests). The State (US, USSR, UK, or Iran) will exert and expand its power over its own people to the maximum extent it believes possible (before inciting rebellion), and the State will seek to expand its power and influence over neighboring peoples to the extent that its force projection capabilities permit (the last half century of history of the US's blue water navy, and the recent capacity expansion of the Chinese navy are shining examples of this). Which is why (with US backing) the Iran fought a (very) brief war and seized territory from two of its neighbors in 1971, less than 48 hours after a diplomatic exchange where they affirmed they wouldn't seize one of the three islands that they eventually did.

Both the Iranians and the Saudis (as well as a bunch of others in the neighborhood) make Bathhouse Barry look like a limp wristed lightweight, they merely lack the military and economic might to impose their will on the same scale.

Personal conversations are exactly that. However, occasionally one comes accross something on the internet that perhaps is a bit out of place, and certainly quicker to digest than three volumes of testimony before the ICJ Registrar regarding the 1971 incidents (at the expense of detail). Among many other things, the speaker wasn't just a trustee of Hoover Foundation, he was a trustee of Hoover's estate, and a fixture in DC for half a century.

BTW - Fight Club has rules, read the fourth one before stepping in and trying to defend someone who apparently doesn't give a shit about the facts.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Oh, so my original assertion, that Iran was sponsored by another nation to violence against its neighbors is correct...

Which is why (with US backing) the Iran fought a (very) brief war and seized territory from two of its neighbors in 1971... -- Urban Redneck

And my goodness, isn't simply marvy that good ole uncle Kermit was there to help the Iranians dispose of the usurper Mosaddegh after he had the temerity to nationalize British oil concerns. I guess that's why the Iranians went all crazy later and deposed our beloved shah in '79 -- cause he was such a nice guy and all...

...[T]he CIA and MI6 conspired to depose him from (and paid others to actually depose)... -- Urban Redneck

Thank goodness we learned today that "politics is a dirty business". And good ole uncle Kermit was up to his eyebrows in it.

Good cut and paste job, altho it does gloss over and omit some important facts. Guess you know all about that dirty business.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

No your original assertion is incorrect:

Quote:
"And whom was the supreme ruler in 1971"

My original assertion, however, is correct:

Quote:
JAMES: 1826 was the year Iran last started a war.
URBAN REDNECK: Wrong. It's happened in within the last 50 years.

Your comprehension of both history and foreign policy is juvenile.

The world is run by actual men and women -- they aren't mythical characters who only exist in books and behind the wizard's curtain. Until you can grasp the consequences of that fact, you cannot begin to comprehend how the world actually works.

To quote from the piece that apparently went way over your head:

"Political murders are a way of life in the middle East. Nearly every royal house has a history of violent change of regime."

Political murders are ordered by actual men, and victims of assassination often have children who grow into actual men and women, and bring those personal conflicts and baggage into the offices they assume.

BTW RETARD: There was no copy and paste in my previous post, unlike yours.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Political murders are a way of life in the United States, if you haven't noticed.

Perhaps there is a reason you didn't include my full quote which included: A US puppet? Maybe you had space limitations?

I'm sorry the sarcasm went over your head in my original post. The point is, the Iranian people, as a politically sovereign and independent nation, were not responsible for the 1971 attack. A puppet, a US installed dictator -- the Shah -- was responsible. Thanks to men like good ole uncle Kermit.

The Iranian people, as political sovereigns since 1979, have not invaded or attacked anyone to my knowledge. If you want to tar them in the technical sense, fine. But the truth of the matter is actually quite different, and therein lies the rub...

Moreover, I understand the personal aspect of international relations. Negotiations were not my strong suit.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 00:34 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It wasn't your sarcasm, it was your stupidity.

The cheap linguistic acrobatics don't make for a strong argument- "the Iranian people, as a politically sovereign and independent nation, were not responsible" - THE PEOPLE ARE RARELY RESPONSIBLE, THE LEADERSHIP IS ALWAYS RESPONSIBLE. or try swallowing this one- "the American people, as a politically sovereign and independent nation, were not responsible" - it's a non-sequitur, and corny as hell to boot.

And again with gross grasp of FACT "a US installed dictator -- the Shah" The Pahlavi dynasty had been on the thrown SINCE 1925, since Reza's father deposed the Qajars. Reza was not a "US installed dictator". However, you could argue that he was installed by the British and Russians, since they forced his father to abdicate, and that accelerated his coronation, but that's not what you wrote.

And as if you hadn't gone full retard already, you follow it up with, "Iranian people, as political sovereigns since 1979" Perhaps you should go look up an English translation of the word ISLAM and a definition of the word SOVEREIGN.

The nuances of the Iran-Iraq war and the escalation by both sides that led to the war, would appear to be a bit beyond your grasp, and the roots go back hundreds (if not thousands) of years. However, if you want to blame the US for the actions of its proxies, and at the same forgive Iran for the actions of its proxies, you cannot claim to be objective. So, in short, you can't go one paragraph without making an ass out of yourself, either through logical or factual error.

And then there is your really juvenile repeated display of inability to employ even basic Socratic reason. I said that I'd known Kermit since I was a kid, and the last time I'd seen him was at a family wedding, which implies that a member of my family was getting married and that he was a guest at the wedding. But I guess with you being both stupid and well versed in jumping to incorrect conclusions, you thought I was related to him... (If I wanted to post under my own name... I would.)

I don't think you actually have the fainest grasp of the personal aspect of international relations. When you are five years old (and up until you're seven or eight) and have the luxury of going behind the curtain and observing the men who decide the course of international relations-- they think you're a benign or amusing "fixture" playing beneath a desk or conference room table, as opposed to a reason to guard one's word choice. It provides a unique perspective- both as a head start on the competition and, more importantly, to eventually coming to one's senses and choosing an alternate course. Occasionally going back behind the curtain as an adult - you NEVER witness the same level of unguardedness, unless you and everyone else in the room is both on the same team and a full-fledged member of the club.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 02:31 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

Urban Redneck, I humbly accept your correction.

War is War and I'm glad you were able to explain so much.

I got that "200yrs." from around the web and actually checked for a link and Pauls site came up.

Good Job!

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Well that turned into a mud slinging match while you were out...

In fairness to the Daily Paul the original poster at least expressed some intellectual curiosity about the underlying facts and sought some input or correction in re. details. However, he seriously erred by accepting the premise -- "information" from Stossel & O'Reilly on Faux News as fact without verifying it first. The comments section is a particularly depressing read- all high fiving and group think. As widely read as the Daily Paul is- no one either knew, or bothered, to step up and correct what had been proffered as fact by Faux News. Now the lie (or misinformation) gets repeated as dogma all over the interwebs (with the complicity of the Google bots). At least on ZH we can have fun flinging feces trying to beat the truth and lies to death or into others' heads...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 03:33 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Glad to note that British involvement help seat the dynasty... Not that that matters of course. Ah the heady days of Empire and the great game, India, the Hindu Kush, China and Russia... Persia. Who knew the Arabian wasteland hid such riches -- and power.

All you're doing is apologizing for imperialism, be it British, Russian, or American. You don't get it. I'm glad you can write a book length dissertation and "rebut' with an avalanche of mostly inconsequential detail...

The point is -- the Persians were subjugated by the Americans prior to 1979. Good ole uncle Kermit, whom you're using as an appeal to authority, was instrumental in their American subjugation. 

While I'll admit to using a good deal of sarcasm, I've not attacked you personally. The fact you find it necessary to do so is an interesting psychological tell. Do you classify every person whom dare disagree an enemy and immediately demean and de-personalize? Must they be destroyed? Or are you simply that low class? 

You'll excuse me if I don't take your word as gospel -- altho I'm sure you have your facts "straight", their selectivty and emphasis leave a bit to be desired.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The "heady days of Empire and the great game" is still very much alive and well. If you look at the past century, Iran and Iraq have been passed back and fourth between first the British (then Americans) and the Russians, as a cheap to whore to achieve national ends, and for an idea of how cheap the Iranian whores are- one needs to look no further than the history of military conflict between Iran and Russia. Now the Americans are on the way out in the Gulf and the American cards are being picked up by the Chinese (with the American debt serfs still blindly footing the bill). Iran is still a pawn and the subjects of the Iranian regime are fodder for Russian chess players.

The debate among the Foggy Bottom braniacs is whether the the Saudis got a nuke from the Pakistanis on a turnkey or BOO. basis, not whether the Saudis also received a nuke commitment from the Chinese in exchange for the House of Saud situating their SPR in China (as opposed to Morocco or some the other strategically outsourced locations they explored earlier), and in addition to the Chinese ballistic bases in the Kingdom picked up on a petro dollar financed shopping spree a while back (while Bandar was AWOL the last time).

You are advocating that people adopt a both a one-dimensional and willfully ignorant view of one the combatants on the playing field (i.e. biased) - perhaps that is why you think I'm "apologizing" for imperialism. All the players are multi-facteted forked tounged snakes (and past, present, or aspiring imperialists) -- one needs look further either than the Iranian regimes OUTRIGHT LIE about seizing Abu Musa and the Tunbs, or the Saudi's constructing ballistic missile bases (with CIA consent) which face both Iran and Israel.

As to Socrates I made no appeal to authority, you dragged Roosevelt into this (in a rather insulting ad-hominem manner), and I simply replied and shifted the context to one more useful for understanding the execution of foreign policy (although if you're looking at interaction of American dynasties and Middle East politics perhaps Cordell Hull (& Jr) make for better research material (at least on par with the Bush/Shrub mythology) /Sarc may be popular on ZH, but as John Knowles wrote- Sarcasm is the defense of the weak.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:53 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

For what it's worth...

...I simply replied and shifted the context to one more useful for understanding the execution of foreign policy... -- Urban Redneck

Yeah. I've had a lot of editors do that... It's called perception management. Basically you're hoping the rubes don't notice and take the bait. Pushes off topic quickly into either an emotional morass, ranting, all the usual bullshit... or a tedious and inconsequential exercise in trivia.

...As to Socrates I made no appeal to authority, you dragged Roosevelt into this (in a rather insulting ad-hominem manner), and I simply replied... -- Urban Redneck

Insulting? Really? 

Does the name Kermit Roosevelt ring any bells? What did Kermit do in Iran in the late 1950s? And whom was he working for when he did it? -- Spanky

I simply asked questions: Surely that does not qualify as disrespect?

Actually I knew Kermit since I was maybe five years old, the last time I saw him was a few years before he passed away at a family wedding. -- Urban Redneck

...and  implied that as a young boy you played at the feet of great men moving mountains, but not as innocent as you might seem? Did you absorb the gravitas of these (apparently frequent) occasions? 

I don't think you actually have the fainest grasp of the personal aspect of international relations. When you are five years old (and up until you're seven or eight) and have the luxury of going behind the curtain and observing the men who decide the course of international relations-- they think you're a benign or amusing "fixture" playing beneath a desk or conference room table, as opposed to a reason to guard one's word choice. It provides a unique perspective- both as a head start on the competition and, more importantly, to eventually coming to one's senses and choosing an alternate course. -- Urban Redneck

Apparently they (whomever these masked men were) made an impression. You're supporting Zbig's agenda. Rationalizing it. Why?

Withdraw from the ME and what happens -- the American Oil and Dollar Empire ends. China and Russia arise. The men you adore, and admire, can't let that happen because they want power and control over the entire world. But it all ends badly. And their way is the worst way. Total War. Never ending war.

Your class aspirations and family ties are showing. As are your prejudices, assumptions and alliances. I understand the personal and familial aspect of international relations. Of close associates and friendships forged in all the right schools, all the proper clubs. So, why are you here? To educate us?

Thus, your associations concern me, esp. insofar as you rationalize the national security state and its diplomatic and military power projection into Eurasia. I guess your choice to attempt personal abuse simply reflects your contempt for all us shit slingers.

Iran ran to Russia, Persia's old nemesis, because life under an American puppet was the alternative...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 08:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Garbage.

Your facts are wrong and your analysis based on incorrect facts combined with speculation and misinterpretation is even more wrong.

Given that you can't even grasp what my position is in regards to the players in the Middle East, this is not surprising.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:35 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

607 BCE Babylon captured Jerusalem.  At that time Babylon was part of Persia.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:19 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

The Iran–Iraq War, also known as the First Persian Gulf War,[28][29][30][31][32] was an armed conflict between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Republic of Iraq lasting from September 1980 to August 1988, making it the 20th century's longestconventional war.[33][34] It was initially referred to in English as the "Gulf War" prior to the Persian Gulf War of the early 1990s.[35] The Iran–Iraq War is considered one of the most violent conflicts since World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

 

  1. News for iran invasion of iraq targets in us




    1. Iranian commander: We have targets within America

      Daily Caller ‎- 1 day ago A top commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards boasted Saturday that his ... in place to attack the United States from within, should theU.S. attack the ... so much so that they invest [by invading Iraq] and others [Iran] benefit.”.

 

 


Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:54 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

 

Best of my knowledge, Iran has not started any war in at least 200 years...

but has had plenty of dirty crap done to them.

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:45 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

This is gonna be one heluva world war when it finally goes down.  Tell me how this doesn't end in a lot of shooting, bombing and a rearrangement of the global power map when it's over.

Thought maybe avoiding Syria would have made a difference, but now I have doubts.  Its everywhere.  Everyone wants to fight.  Only a matter of time before somebody throws down in a serious way.  

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 09:39 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

The problem with that is there will be nothing left for the 1% to rule.  While they're happy watching, paying (lending), organising and betting via markets on bad stuff to happen to the sheeple; they still need something left to live off and control, otherwise what's the point?

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:45 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

Iran obtaining nuclear weapons however, is a different story all-together.  Here we have a state that has actively called repeatedly for the destruction of the state of Israel.  Iran has recently used weapons of mass destruction via its vassal in Damascus against the Syrian opposition.  We are on the brink of a major arms race and nuclear escalation in the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia is rumored to be acquiring a nuclear capability to oppose the Iranian threat.  This region of the globe has been a flash-point for the world throughout history.  In my humble opinion, this would be an area to take a stand.  This would be an issue on which to confront Putin and anger the Russia bear.  The consequences of not doing so are horrific.

And what about all those Israeli nuclear weapons of mass destruction, and their short but bloody history of enmity with their neighbors?

America needs to take off her rose colored glasses and look at the world with a Machiavellian view.  We should decide to intervene in centuries old conflicts only when there are clear American security interests involved.

I smell another apologist for US imperialism and pro-Israeli foreign interventionism.

Fuck off and die you Neocon cocksucker.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:10 | Link to Comment El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

 

only when there are clear American security interests involved.

Yeah, that's pretty vague when you think in terms of DC speak.  American security interests could mean dollar interests, oil interests, somebody is jacking with the NSA's spying, etc...  It's not limited to the idea that an attack is happening or an attack is plausibly imminent.  The unfortunate thing is, dollar and oil interests really are important, and a catastrophic loss in the game of global politics on those fronts will spell doom for this country.  Of course, we're going to lose on those fronts whether it is nature that kicks our ass, or other countries kick it anyway.  All of the warmongering that we do is wasting energy when we should be putting it towards a decentralized economy, making those interests much less vital.  We couldn't have excessive crony capitalism, or fascism or whatever the hell you want to call this dog and miniature unicorn show if we did that though. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:46 | Link to Comment WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

He is thinking and speaking like a SOLDIER. Meaning, get in, get out when done. Unlike the politicians who will never fight in the dirty wars they promote.

You guys are jaded, maybe you should get out more.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:00 | Link to Comment El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Jesus dude, not counting the various Indian Wars and minor military engagements, how many wars have we been involved in since gaining our independence? 

 

War of 1812

Mexican American War

Civil War

Spanish American War

WWI

WWII

Korea

Vietnam

Iraq I

Afghanistan

Iraq II

 

And, which of those wars included legitimate US security interests?  What interests were those, and what was the pretext for starting or joining them?  If I'm jaded, it is because I have some concept of history.  I just happen think the founding fathers were onto something when they warned against foreign entanglements. 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:49 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

As someone once said:  "Before we debate, let's first define our terms".

If you extend this to defining "National Interest", and define is as "Anything that impacts the security, lifestyle or interest of those who effectively control or own the country" (the Top 1%), then it all becomes crystal clear what is actually meant in the subtext, every time that expression is used.

I hope that having this "decoder ring" does not depress you, but enlighten you.  If you want to get indignant, you may wish to direct it at the fact that you're not in this Club, rather than the media-speak pretending to speak for you.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:54 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

Bosnia

Albania

Lybia

 

Labia...

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:03 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Perhaps, but apparently he has visions of "statesmanship" in his eyes.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:40 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

"short but bloody history"

It is a long bloody history, going back to at least 607 BCE.

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:49 | Link to Comment 1ifbyland
1ifbyland's picture

Holodomor....'nuff said

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:39 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

Joseph Stallin was just following Rothschild orders.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:49 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Holodomor Ukraine 1933 (the real holocaust) - Video

Ten million Christians were murdered by the jews.


Jewish group objects to ‘Great Famine’ case

"The nation’s security service is pressing the case against a list of former Soviet officials accused of committing the Holodomor, which caused the deaths of millions in Ukraine in 1932-33. Most of the names on the list were Jewish."

"Last July, the Ukrainian Security Service released a list of high-ranking Soviet state and Communist Party officials — as well as officials from NKVD, the police force of Soviet Russia — that essentially blamed Jews and Latvians responsible for perpetrating and executing the famine because most of the names on the list were Jewish."

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Ukraine Commemorates Millions Who Died in Stalin's Holodomor Reign of Terror

"The former Soviet state of Ukraine and members of the Ukrainian diaspora around the world have been remembering one of the darkest times in the country's history when millions of their forebears were starved to death under the iron rule of Joseph Stalin."

"Eighty years ago (1932-33), when Ukraine was under USSR rule, millions of ordinary Ukrainians perished mostly from starvation as a result of the liquidation of private property and industrialisation. It became known as 'Holodomor', or 'execution by hunger'."

"Bolshevik forces swept through villages taking food and carrying out mass executions. Anyone caught stealing food or trying to leave the region in search of bread was either imprisoned, turned back or executed."

"The Soviet government of the time denied that there was famine in the Ukraine and anyone who spoke of it was sent to the gulags or executed."


Joseph Stalin's Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States

"In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system."

"Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty."

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Blazed
Blazed's picture

The Kosher Bolsheviks.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:25 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

Rothschilds hired apostate Jews from Grermany to go to Russia and overthrow the Tsar.

The Red Army confiscated all food and sold it on the world market.  They also surrounded cities with tanks and leveled them with artillary.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:05 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?

"As we shall see in the following section, the Bolshevik revolution actually was financed by wealthy financiers in London and New York. Lenin and Trotsky were on the closest of terms with these moneyed interests both before and after the Revolution. Those hidden liaisons have continued to this day and occasionally pop to the surface, when we discover a David Rockefeller holding confidential meetings with a Mikhail Gorbachev in the absence of government sponsorship or diplomatic purpose."

"One of the greatest myths of contemporary history is that the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was a popular uprising of the downtrodden masses against the hated ruling class of the Tsars. As we shall see, however, the planning, the leadership and especially the financing came entirely from outside Russia, mostly from financiers in Germany, Britain and the United States. Furthermore we shall see, that the Rothschild Formula played a major role in shaping these events."

"Jacob Schiff was head of the New York investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Co. He was one of the principal backers of the Bolshevik revolution and personally financed Trotsky's trip from New York to Russia. He was a major contributor to Woodrow Wilson's presidential campaign and an advocate for passage of the Federal Reserve Act."

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Yeah, why not just take off the rose colored glasses, kill them all, and let God sort them out? Put the right people in luxurious bomb shelters and glassify the planet.

It almost sounds Satanic.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:01 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Decorate the front walk lining it with children's skulls on sticks

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:51 | Link to Comment pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

Ukraine is two peoples, one border = trouble from the get-go.

And, as other poster's have pointed out, its really the EU, a dilapated jalopy of former powers, vs. the demographically fading Russian federation, over the fading-faster Ukraine.

Could our metastasis weapons-war complex leave this one to the other guys?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:43 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"the demographically fading Russian federation"

Do you think the US is going to benefit from tens of millions of Third World forager immigrants? That's the main reason why the Land of Liberty is now the Land of Tyranny.

The US will never be a free country again. Never. It will break up first.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Russia population is growing.

 

Sun, 02/02/2014 - 23:56 | Link to Comment adeptish
adeptish's picture

"Iran obtaining nuclear weapons however, is a different story all-together.  Here we have a state that has actively called repeatedly for the destruction of the state of Israel"

As William 114085 above said, this guy is a shill for the MIC and has the horn for Nutty-yahoo.

What a wanker.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:13 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Hasbara lovers go home! Don't you have imported sex slaves to rape and molest over in Israel?  You're only digging a hole here.

I think we found another free-thinker in Adeptish.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:01 | Link to Comment swass
swass's picture

Lol This author seems to accept the governments line on Syria?  Further he warmongers against Iran helping to feed the idea that America is the largest threat to world peace.  We probably are, because we have jackasses like this guy that wants his war but not the other guys.  Perhaps we should focus on business at home and fostering good trade relationships with everyone  

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:13 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Israhumpers go home please.  Don't the Hasbara have susceptable minds to brainwash elsewhere?  Spot on Swass.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:40 | Link to Comment WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Business IS warfare!

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Government business is.

Government, the sandbox of psychopaths, the shining beacon of the mentally challenged, and the goldmine of crony capitalists.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:44 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

Warefare is the business of international bankers.  Finance both sides. Increase the national debts. Put in the contract the winner assumes the loser's debts.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:12 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Iran obtaining nuclear weapons however, is a different story all-together.  Here we have a state that has actively called repeatedly for the destruction of the state of Israel.

And rightly so.  The rest of this article can be dismissed now.  Neither Israel nor it's paid Hasbara, nor their warcrimes appologists have any sway or influence over this free-thinking mind.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:20 | Link to Comment percolator
percolator's picture

This is all everyone needs to know about the author "L. Todd Wood is a former special operations helicopter pilot and bond trader. "

So, L. Todd Wood was nothing but a mercenary for our corporations and now works for the Wall St. crime syndicate or simply put L. Todd Wood is a god damn fucking FASCIST!

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:39 | Link to Comment WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Someone who reads things that aren't there! Ya got junked for a BAD BOOK REPORT.

Bad dog, very bad dog!

Now go to your pad and be quiet.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:39 | Link to Comment The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Read some Pepe Escobar as an atidode to this Jackass' post.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-240114.html

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:46 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The problem with a confrontation is that it is often based on a miscalculation which can often lead to devestation.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

Exactly the case of Napoleon invading Russia.  

 

The Truth about Napoleon's Lost Army (Full Documentary) 50 min

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saSErFUMXRE


Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:51 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

You know what's funny?

Consider for example the website LegalZoom. They have automated hundreds of different functions and processes that used to take time and expertise for a skilled individual to fill out forms, send in papers, et cetera. Now, just a click, and you can set up an entire business structure, trust, et cetera.

Along those lines, I'll bet the men in charge have an "app" that can create a whole fake indentity with a few clicks. Think about it. You know they can easily sock puppet internet conversations using some shitty software, I'll bet they can create an entire fake person with just a few clicks. Fake family, fake documents, Gene Rosen can say he knew you back in your younger days, et cetera.

Heh heh. Kind of like L. Fucking. Todd. Wood.

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 04:41 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Just the other day the Enforcer over at AIPAC ( Cass Sunstein ), created this Kenyan name BathHouse-Barry, and gave him a real Jewish grand-mother and the whole deal, dual citizenship in ISrael, and tossed in a USA passport to the online profile.

*

If you can have a virtual-currency, why can we not have a virtual president, and a virtual government?

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 05:59 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

Todd Headroom

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Yeah, righ, whatever.

"Fifty-four percent of recently polled Russians consider America to be the number one threat to world peace compared to twenty-four percent of the rest of the world."

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:09 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I consider the US to be the number one threat to the economy, peace, privacy, freedom, truth, and anything else that is worth having, especially everyone's future.

What the US Government did to the Indians is what it is doing to the world.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:33 | Link to Comment Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I'm not saying you are wrong but most Russians could care less.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:56 | Link to Comment satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

They did a poll in Russia, the most respected man in history was Stalin. Why?

The Russian respect power.

Make no mistake if PUTIN loses Ukraine to the BathHouse-Barry, ... its a major fucking embarrassment for Putin's Legacy.

*

Bath-House Barry has no respect for himself or anything else, but PUTIN has respect for himself and his legacy.

IMHO this thing will go down like SYRIA, and once again "AIPAC" will get kicked in the nut's and go back to talking-point 101, aka IRAN-NUKES :(

 

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 13:13 | Link to Comment Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Be careful of who the "they" are is taking poll in Russia.

Alexander Nevsky is most respected

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:13 | Link to Comment buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

Damn, I can only give this article one star once (if only less was possible).

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:15 | Link to Comment A Dollar Short
A Dollar Short's picture

Putin at bat..

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:18 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

So Iran calls for the destruction of Israel while the USA doesn't call for the destruction of any nation but somehow seems to destroy nations time and time again.

 

One is condemned for a statement while the other goes scott free for actually doing it.

 

Am I missing something?

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:25 | Link to Comment jtg
jtg's picture

Sorry, L Todd Woo, Assad DID NOT murder thousands of civilians with weapons of mass destruction. This kind of agitprop and disinformation reminds me of the lies told in the West about the Serbs in the 1990's.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 01:26 | Link to Comment PADRAEG
PADRAEG's picture

This writer must be some kind of traitor. Putin beats Obama because Obama is too stupid for words. Of course EU can't rip Ukraine from Putin, but Ukrainians are doing that all by themselves, just don't let Obama/Kerry screw it up. 

BTW, USA should block all financial assets of Yanukovich's (he's Putin's bithch) crime family, AND also the same for Putin's crime family. 

USA used to stand for something, we should not be abandoning Ukraine now!

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 02:00 | Link to Comment Joseff Stalin
Joseff Stalin's picture

The two languages spoken in Ukraine are Russian and Ukrainian. The alphabets are almost the same. Ukraine has more in common with Russia than any other nation.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 05:07 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

The American colonies and Britain both spoke the same language, and look what happened there.

Mon, 02/03/2014 - 15:44 | Link to Comment NZ Watcher
NZ Watcher's picture

Ukrainian is more like a "slang Russian"

or liken it to Queens English V "Cockney English)

 

 

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