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Third Greek Bailout Package Is Finally On Deck
As noted on Friday, the Greek soap opera, in which Europe pretends to bail out Greece when it is just bailing out its insolvent banks by not touching the status quo, and Greece pretends to reform and comply with austerity reforms when it merely continues to spend as before until the money runs out and the entire act is repeated, is about to enter its third act.
Yesterday, Greek Kathimerini reported that the reason why the Troika has put Greece on ice and has is behind in the implementation of 153 actions demanded by its lenders, according to a timetable compiled by the Finance Ministry. "Of the outstanding actions, 57 are the responsibility of the Finance Ministry, 17 fall to the Development Ministry, another 17 to the Labor Ministry and eight to the Administrative Reform Ministry. The rest are divided among other ministries. A number of the actions have yet to be completed as the government remains in discussions with the troika about the measures. Inspectors are expected to return to Athens later this month but a date has not yet been fixed." In other words, the bulk of the conditions agreed to as part of the second bailout have yet to be met by Greece.
So what happens next? Why a third Greek bailout of course.
As reported by Spiegel over the weekend, citing a five-page German finance ministry 'position paper', Schauble is preparing the ground for a third aid package for Greece that would amount to €10-20 billion. When will the package be deployed? By May. Because that's when the European elections take place and when the next major Greek debt redemption takes place: after all can't have even the tiniest gust of wind blow on Europe's impecable house of cards...
From Kathimerini:
The possibilities outlined include a further debt haircut that would mainly hit public creditors or a «limited additional program» in which Greece could receive fresh money from the European rescue fund, the report said.
The package could amount to 10 billion to 20 billion euros, said Der Spiegel, and would be tied to commitments from Athens to undertake reforms with more vigour.
A spokesman for the finance ministry denied that a new debt writedown was planned for Greece.
"There is no new situation,» said the spokesman and referred to previous statements made by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble.
The minister has in the past said there could be a remaining need for some refinancing but any further package would be far smaller than the aid granted so far.
Greece has received 240 billion euros of support in two aid packages from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the euro zone since 2010 in return for spending cuts and reforms.
A senior EU official said last month that Greece was not in urgent need of funds now and extra money would only be needed when Greece must pay back debt. Its next big redemption date is in mid-May.
That said, by now nobody cares as pretty much everyone has figured out the game, which will continue on its unsustainable path until one day it no longer can.
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looks like gyros could be on sale for cash...........yumm yummm
Six years down the road and here we are, right at the beginning.
What if they had just defaulted, dropped the euro and went back to being an independent country again, as the had been for 2, 3 thousand years?
No, I think this is about something more than a bunch of ponzi debt.
They are slave masters of the Germans, just like they were to the Romans...
They are slave masters of the Germans, just like they were to the Romans...
Who's the "they" you're referring to? (Not a smart-ass question, I'm just interested in your historical viewpoint).
UK bookies should give odds and take bets on which country will be the black swan. So far we have:
Argentina, Greece, Thailand, Italy, Ukraine, Spain, Ireland, Slovenia, Egypt, Syria, Iran, China, India should I keep going?
Ok: Indonesia, China, USA, Brazil, running out of ink.
countries are irrelevant. still plenty of taxpayers around to fleece ad infinitum. it's all about the banks. just follow the money.
The Greeks already rehypothecated the Golden Fleece at 400:1 leverage.
Now, they need to continue bailing out, (more "good money after bad") or the PREVIOUS money was wasted.
Like we'll get with Obamacare.
Bingo. Let's just push nationalization up a notch and do it global style. Put a few million bureaucrats to work, massive global taxation and global bonds which are infinitely fungible!
"What if they had just defaulted, dropped the euro and went back to being an independent country again, as the had been for 2, 3 thousand years?"
They'd have to constrain spending to match revenue, which wouldn't include bailout money from the IMF/EU (Germans). So we can safely rule that out.
Yes, but two things would happen the instant they default:
1. Their balance sheet instantly looks a lot better (more credit-worthy, though it would take a couple years before anyone would loan to them again).
2. Without the interest payments due on all that debt, their income statement also improves dramatically.
Why they won't do it, is the same reason they haven't done it up to this point- it's messy and important people will lose lots of money. (Nobody cares about the Greek people, certainly not their bought-and-paid-for puppet politicians)
"Yes, but two things would happen the instant they default:
1. Their balance sheet instantly looks a lot better (more credit-worthy, though it would take a couple years before anyone would loan to them again)."
I know I would sign up for that, since surely I would be treated better than the last several million creditors they had fleeced. And the borrowed money/deficit spending 'this time' would surely not lead to the same result as 'last time'.
Tough Love
The EU needs to KICK them out.
Wow! Sounds like the Greek people should unite and take up arms...err sticks and chunks of brick. Yeah, that'll show the man who's in charge.
Not that Canada is really much better off. Sure we've got some guns up here; but we're just simply over-run with liberals and left-wing nutjobs! Unless we pull together and sink every political extremist into the bottom of lake Ontario, I suppose we can only watch and wait, as this thing creeps onto our doorstep too.
Oh well, weak-link Greek people;enjoy your new steady diet of rubber bullets, and teargas-flavoured cardboard.
3. bunch of european banks(or whoever is the fool holding the greek bonds/debt) would go bust. this is pretty much the reason why greek politicians feel quite confident and bluff with open hand
layman - "bluff"?? What are you talking about? It is not as if the Greek government is doing nothing. They are deliberatly destroying the Greek economy. Where is the bluff?
There is only one game here. The loans to the government are being used to buy the Greek government more time, so they can run up peoples tax debts and then seize their assets.
We are witnessing asset stripping Tony Soprano stlye.
(Video - Papademos is the ex PM, ex Goldman, ex ECB. The rep of the international banking cartel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5xb8RngyAk
If they uniliterally default every bank in Greece only held up by implicit ECB guarantuees through Greek bailouts defaults right with them. If they confiscate Euros and reissue Drachme's the EU courts would be after them, so they'd have to get out of the EU altogether.
What remains of their economy can't afford either ... we're talking about decades of even worse misery for some far future potential improvement.
Marco - The Greek government defaults, the Greek banks go bankrupt. The only issue in this scenario is if depostiers will be reimbursed.
The EU has said back at the start that all European bank accounts are insured up to 100,000Euro. So what is the issue?
You can depend on the government to do the worst things post default so they cling onto power. They cut the last things they should cut first and vice versa and before you know it the country turns into Haiti.
The money is not the issue here, it is the people running the show and the power they have.
The answer for all countries is in the Constitution of the United States.
correct. government spending would be much lower, and any funding would have to be in a major currency
of course, it's also a question of will, then 65% of Greeks still want their country in the monetary union
Let ya in on a small secret no Greek will openly admit but (many in their hearts) know to be true. The majority want the Euro because they realize what a complete bunch of fuckups they are as well as how sly and cunning their thoughts can be. It is for the same reason they all did everything possible to get a government job, realizing full well that this trajectory could not be supported.
So, it is a way to continue to milk the cow ( a new larger one now that they killed their own) and it hands off the problem to someone else. So, when everything goes to hell, the Greeks will simply blame Europe for everything and try to come out clean. The Europeans simply could not have ever imagined such things and they have gotten themselves into "situation". The Europeans may be naive but they are not stupid. They eventually caught on and are putting the screws to the Greeks.
The whole thing here is if the Greeks can wiggle out of this one, if the troika loses its will or if the whole thing falls to shit. While the banks were suckering them in with loans knowing what was to follow, the Greeks felt that the joke was on the banks. We shall see.......
Kinda like when a woman really loves you, she'll openly tell you and warn you about what bitches women can be.
Down vote away if you want . The truth never gets too many votes and I think that is reflected by the state of our world.
Greeks are up to their eyeballs in taxation now. Only the polticians are wiggling out of something.
"What if they had just defaulted, dropped the euro and went back to being an independent country again, as the had been for 2, 3 thousand years?"
One thing to be sure, Is it the GERMANS???? are they Sovereign and Independent THEMSELVES???
OR
They are also under occupation since 1945?
Who has Military Bases on their soil? Just like Greece?
Who was "mind the GAP Papandreou" answering to?? (He is holding a USA passport)
Was his Roommate (SomeAreAss) in the US of A, not party to the entire Charade from the begining?
Who are they protecting? ..........well we can see who has been fucked in the ass so far.
There were voices in Greece (Somebody called Kazakis) and abroad (within the IMF ,the Strauss Can affair, even Russia Switcherland, Brazil.etc. etc.) for doing just what you said from the begining if not 1984 (The Central Banker at the time)
And instead of reigning in the expenses, they went into a spending spree, with ARMAMENTS (American and German and French even Russian) to counter the "Turkish Threat" All has been manufactured by the POLITICIANS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AEGEAN.
Guess WHO HAS FINANCIALLY BENEFITED SO FAR.
FOLLOW THE MONEY
They would be debt free.
The first bailout to Greece did not go to Greece at all but to Deutsche Bank and some French banks. Deutsche Bank loaned some 500 billion Euro to Greece, Spain and other countries. These investments had to be protected. And the Greek people are paying for it ever since.
The Greek people import more than they export ...
Just make it an even trillion and we'll get back to you in 20 years
I love Golden Dawn!
GD has a simple message. btw, it is fascism, euro-style
Agreed. Thank you for the truth, it is rare on such subjects.
lol, GD avows nazi affliation via its party symbols openly; so the truth as you say was OUT in the open and not secret like some other 'nationalistic' parties hiding their neo-fascism behind the facade of national or ethnic origins.
I don't car so much for Golden Dawn...but golden showers....as a changeup sometimes, they aren't bad....
Goldie Hawn
@W74,
The GD are the only hope for countering the Kosher Bolsheviks. Anything else is simply remaining a slave to the banksters and under threat from their ethnic weapon, the deliberate massive influx of third world hordes.
Just "Jubilee" them, let them off the hook and never lend to them again.
It's what we do in Peru to stubborn customers who will not pay. OK, fine. You can never buy from us again. No more Korean bearings for you! Unless you pay more to buy them from our customers...
This goes to the heart of the morality of what we find ourselves in. To some extent, it has always been so, but it was hidden behind the simple smooth functioning of the mechanism.
It all comes down to this: What possible morality can there be when you effortlessly create a substance out of nothingness, lend it to another person, and then demand that person -- at considerable pain and suffering to himself -- return that substance to you with interest. How can it make sense that the word "deadbeat" exists when we view the entire matter as I just described it?
Stop thinking monetary thoughts. What is taking the system down is oil scarcity and the overwhelming cost -- in joules -- that increasingly exists to get those joules out of the ground.
One reason that I posted before that SDR's or any other basket currency should include a portion of a BTU or KW/H equivalent value.
Maybe. Hand waving about debasing and "gold standard" replaces one nothingness with another nothingness. Things that have value only because parties agree they have value (and can change their minds).
A joules based currency would be filled with meaning. Joules represent reality and don't care about agreement.
But that would entail a hard limit to growth, while article 1 of the Religion of Progress is that growth is potentially infinite. You heretic!
Potentially? Please.
Bring some more joules to the table and you can have more growth.
Of course, the process would then get underway to redefine either joules or the table.
Hey! We already counted sunshine. What about all those other suns? The universe is our table.
Hola! Do Chen, long time.
I just checked Peru is one of the few countries that has budget surplus. 5% or so.
Will be there in March. ....scouting..
"extra money would only be needed when Greece must pay back debt"?
So they are going to give them the money to pay back the debt and pretend everything was alright. Does the money just go straight to the German Banks or do they have to share it with other bond holders.
I forget the year, but didnt MS loan Argentina the DS payments on a like a $90B debt load... then talk up the Argentines only to see the new bondholders get clipped?
Ha Ha
Gawd, when will this charade end.
When the whole of Grecce is even more wrecked than
the Acropolis.
When the whole of Grecce is even more wrecked than the Acropolis.
Are we not there already? You can't get blood out of turnip or water out of a stone.
They are going to try very hard to.
Rebel while you still can.
Just wait till they are selling the countries assets to the multi-nationals.
After we end the charade that is government.
"extra money would only be needed when Greece must pay back debt"
Lend someone just enough money to pay the interest on the money they already owe. Nice one.
Grow up Greeks. Repatriate the billions in the Swiss bank accounts and tell the EU where to go.
Then eat your olives in peace and bask in the sun.
more vigour....that is like more cowbell......lol..this is a joke right..do nothing and you get another 10 to 20 billion.....I was schooled all wrong
At least the EU elections could be interesting for once. Anti-EU forces making big gains in Bryssels and pro-EU forces in control of the governments. Fun times for all!
It's all about the strategic position of Greece in the Mediterranean theater and preventing it from being snapped up by Russia or China for eurocents. And the Mediterranean oil & gas fields of course.
"not in urgent need of funds now and extra money would only be needed when Greece must pay back debt. "
What's the difference whether you pay for things now and need money then or need money now and pay for debt then? The bottom line is your broke. All it means is that you're spending money you don't have right now.
It's 'Whimpy-nomics' I guess....all is good as long as you promise to pay later for what you eat today, nevermind it's obvious you can never repay any of it.
I'm just glad no one has defaulted anywhere in the World.
/sarc.
The Shitshow slouches forward.
I like the sound of flushing billions to Greece.
Money for insolvent European banks being passed through the sphincter that Greece has become.
Billions being sprouted by the bail out spigot and not a drop to drink for the Greek population.
What logic is that and why to those guys from Deutsche and UBS keep returning from Athens with a big smile on their faces after each "last train to gunhill" bailout package?
The bankstas and the gangsterment of IMF blessed crony Troika.
This would all start working if the common man would just die the fuck off, already.
If only they changed the order of disposal : Last phuk before you die.
These bankstas don't even give a guy a last smoke or poke before the garrote knot hangs them. "No, no, we have a plane to catch for Berlin. Chop chop, and hang em high."/
quote mass extinctions....the bankers have found ways to increase debt and keep their ponzi going without relying up people....
If Austrians are right that inflation is really based on money printed, regardless if whether the banksters give it out, there is really going to be one large hangover from all this Keynesian garbage.
PS, when has there ever been a free lunch, really?
Answer: when your unborn stinking rich because insanely productive grand-grand-children are paying for your free lunch. It's a gift from them
you just have to make sure they get born, get educated, work their magic
easy. though if they fail you..., then it's... awkward
Bailout to infinity. Whatever the Greeks get the others club med members want as well.
Some banksters skimming the money are directing it towards their own private accounts.
Why is it such a concern that the banks be paid back? Is that not why they charge interest rates? To cover the risk of non payment? Isn't that the way the system should operate?
Who cares?
What is money in any case if one can print it at will.
hmm, and what universe is this that a "debt haircut" isn't a "debt writedown"? The Greek kleptocracy wrings out a bit more from the Euro taxpayer; same ole', same ole'.
I'm not interested in another round of "governments only lie when they open their lips". But are there really any investor horses still left out there who think they that if they just run around the government debt-abbaitor a bit faster than the rest, they won't get turned into burgers?
Oh yes, Myra's (head slap).
MOAR EURO SHIT SHOW!!!!!
This is fucking bullish!!!!
Absent any success at aligning productivity between EZ member states - which anybody with two brain cells has always said is a necessity for a successful currency union - and of cutting state spending to poverty levels, the EZ Uber Gruppen Fuhrers are taking the only other option: to feed the bad performers with money to live on, aka Transfer Payments.
There Is No Alternative, short of admitting defeat and facing reality.
But since when did coin-operated political elites ever do that??
your theory is popular, yet wrong. btw, aligning productivity is... already a state-interventionist meme to begin with
on you island this theory is proposed to explain the policy decision for devaluation, btw
Can't believe they haven't gone back to the Drachma and told the Brussels Banksters where to stick it yet.
first: Greeks don't want to. second: they have quite a good idea about why...
let's say they have long memories and Greece has made many, many experiments during it's history
@ Ghordius , Are you not aware that the Central Bank of Greece WAS NEVER GREEK OWNED??? (The Greek State owned at most 8%, the rest is with FOREIGNERS).
And yet they DIRECTED OPERATIONS plus they Played the Stock Exchange.
What drachma then?
In name it was Greek, the population thought it was Greek but in reality, it never was Greek
Also from what recent publications came to fore , The German collobarators sided with the British. The Resistance was outlawed and persecuted.
NOTHING CHANGED
The Drachma was Foreign owned (Rothcilds', so was said, Black Rock , and the Vampire Squid, that figures why Papademos ,Squids' own was Prime Minister .
The Majority of the Propaganda Media is financed by, you guess lol.
Now then, isn't it the very same Played out in Italy??
The same machinations between "Left" and "Right" shenanigans AGAINST Beppe Grillo.
And only these last few days the Old Political Class conspired to fix the Elections.
Have a look here for the shenanigans in Italy http://www.beppegrillo.it/2014/02/tolleranza_letta.html
Also check who is benefiting from the Bank recapitalisation in Italy ho! ho! ho!
The Greeks and the Italians are in the same Cauldron.
Oh alright, the Greeks are really fucked.
yes, I am aware of that. I'm also aware that some of it's shareholders are Diaspora Greeks, otherwise it's mostly banks
nevertheless the angle of your rant is inconclusive, then all western CBs that have a similar stock-listed shares approach have still a political directorship. The Governor of those banks is usually appointed by the executive and confirmed by parliamentary procedure
Relax.
Ghordius says this EMU will all work just fine because THE PEOPLE want it to work.
No crooked cucumbers, bitchez.
Riot Dog isn't too crazy about sharing his horsemeat though.
no, I'm not saying it will work. I'm saying it can work. it's a question of political will. (the political capital invested in it that Draghi mentioned, the way it's understood here)
this political will has precedents, from the Latin Monetary Union to the European Currency Grids, etc. and we do know what it means to have medium or small currencies during reserve currency convulsions or currency wars
note that the eurozone is still a monetary union, not a debt union. so you do have to take the two aspects as they are
and yes, popular will inside of the eurozone is still in favour of it. don't get confused from the loud English voices. this might of course change, but I'm describing the present
Europe in reality is not a monetary union, it is a debt union.
The fear of that debt pile toppling is what is keeping those rats together in addition to the fact that the bureaucracy, certin politicians and other vested interests have much invested in this house of cards.
As for being a monetary union, i doubt that will hold true once more haircuts of bank accounts resume.
the very fact that you call it a debt union shows that you have not understood what eurozoners are bitching about, or what their angle is
of course every country has a vested interest in keeping it's debt mountain intact. yet eurozoners have a different approach regarding banking systems
String up those inspectors already... that'll send the eurocrats tyrants a clear message.
Golden Dawn is the only Greek party who plans to defenestrate the Imperial legates. That is why their leaders have been arrested.
Golden dawn stuffed up their golden opportunity to capture the full imagination of the Greek people by presenting themselves the way they did.
Shaven heads, salutes and some other ugly aspects scared the others away.
The people who are voting for them are doing so out of a sense of frustration and anger at the other parties and nothing more.
I do agree however that the other parties have attacked the Golden Dawn Party out of a sense of fear than for any real reasons to do with the possibility of criminilaity.
"It seems that, the European economic-political elites worry that SYRIZA may become an example for the Leftist parties of Europe on the oncoming euro-elections in May. This could start a "domino effect" of undesirable and uncontrolled rise of a totally opposed to the neoliberal policies Left in Europe."
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/01/a-retouch-operation-for-left....
You needn't worry . They are being Bought out since last year.
Just read about Alexis Tsipras' travels (Brookings Institute and Texas visit) and speeches, as well as his closest cotterie.
Merkel got re-elected.
Merkel really believes in the United States of Europe.
So, if 'push comes to shove', German taxpayers _alone_ will make whatever sacrifices are needed to keep the Greek dominio from falling.
The Eurozone will only collapse when EZ-related losses to German citizens become unacceptable. 'Unacceptability' is growing: AfD got 4.7% of the vote in the recent elections, despite starting from zero as a newly formed party.
However, IMO, the damage caused by Greece simply isn't big enough. The Greeks would need to take themselves out of the EZ.
The weak point is Italy. It's too big even for German taxpayers.
240 Billion Euros... Just for Greece!
ha... ha ha .. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaahahahahaaaaaaa.
Really, we're that far?
And they think what they're doing is credible... and consequence free?
A previous German shadow finance minister admitted to me that Greece would never pay back her debt and that all the bailouts were nothing more than an attempt to extend and pretend because Europe and the world could easily see a sequence of cascading defaults that would wipe out the whole system.
To me that was and still is a good explanation but a futile exercise.
I wanna see them BAN this ancient Greek symbol "the New Dawn logo", and than rip it off every 5000 year old building :) LOL!!!!!!!!!
Same way they banned the Swastika a 5000 year old Buddhist symbol