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The Two Biggest Fears

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors,

I have two major concerns right not that I think everyone should be nervous about.  Actually I have lots of concerns, but most aren’t about the markets, and discussing them in this forum isn’t appropriate, so I will stick to my market related fears.

These are two risks that I see taking this sell-off further and faster than anyone else expects.

The Death of the Normal Curve

I think algo’s in general have had changes the distribution of returns.  That seems particularly true around the big Moving Averages.  Maybe it is just me, but I see so many conversations about the 50 DMA and 100 DMA these days that it seems that everyone is looking at them.  It might just be my streams, or it might just be that everyone really is that bored, or is looking for an excuse not to sell.

In any case, I think there are many more “entities” trading the moving averages (and other technical levels).  I think that has shifted the return distribution over time.

Let’s say in the good old days, there was a “normal” return distribution around the 100 DMA.  Since I am graphically challenged I will work with a very simple binomial distribution that illustrates the point.

Say there was a 75% chance of a bounce with a 0.5% profit, then there should have been a 25% chance with a 1.5% loss.  That would have created an expected value of 0.

People still trade it because they felt they had some other “advantage” that let them pick the bounces with a higher success rate.  Or pick those bounces that would generate higher returns.

Over time as more and more algos try to trade the same phenomena the success rate actually increases.

It becomes to some degree, a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If I am buying at the 100 DMA because it bounces and you are buying at the same price (for the same reason) then it is likely to bounce.  So what happens over time is the “win rate” increases.

Now let’s say you win 90% of the time, and the average profit is still 0.5% then that loss, which only occurs 10% of the time, should be 4.5%.  Yikes.

You can see how it would happen.  The 100 DMA at one time represented the entire market which was not overly biased towards technicians.  Shorts maybe covered at those levels because it seemed appropriate.  Longs doubled down because they had liked it there once before, so why not now.  All these charts are just a graphical representation of human behavior.

But now that has changed.  A lot of the people sitting on long positions bought for no other reason than it should go higher.  It wasn’t a long only manager adding to a position at levels they had once liked.  It was a twitchy algo buying because it has to go up.  One feature all those algo’s have is relatively tight stop losses.  They may all need to exit at the same time.  That might push us further than anyone expected.

While real money might add at the 100 DMA, maybe once they break through it and have all their gains from the past few months wiped out, they don’t add, or even sell.  Maybe the algo’s that sniff out weakness short.  Maybe that is why we don’t get a small gap down, but instead hit an air pocket.

So I am nervous that the support we think we have has been eroded by the types of trading that goes on, and that what should be a small sell-off based on the data, becomes a larger sell-off base on the positioning and types of trading we see in the market.

Treasury Weakness

In case you missed it this morning, we recommended covering the long bond long position (I do love saying that).

Before getting into why we are nervous, I have to admit I still think TBT might be the most insane “investment” out there.  2 times the daily move in any treasury seems silly.  These leveraged ETF’s have serious path dependency problems as it stands.  The “churn” of daily bounces hurts their returns.  That is common enough in treasuries.  Then it is based on some index (Barclay’s 20+ year treasuries) that is completely affected by the Fed’s positions.  The Fed owns significant portions of a lot of the bonds that are in that index, making pricing less transparent.  But that is solved by being short through bilateral swaps.  Okay, I use the term “solved” very loosely.  So you have path dependent leveraged risk to an index that isn’t fungible through bilateral swaps.  Shoot me.  Please just shoot me.

But shares outstanding for TBT continue to grow.  If ever any investment should be destroyed on principle alone, this is it.  It makes me want to go long the long bond, again.

But I can’t.  Not every “consensus” trade loses every day and I am very nervous that “something” is going on in the treasury complex.

Here are our concerns:

We have hit some target levels 2.60% on the 10 year and 3.55% on the long bond (or close enough)

 

We aren’t rallying as much as we “should” be.  Completely subjective, but this morning when futures were down 4 (how quaint that seems) treasuries were also lower.  It feels like there is real resistance here, and I’m not sure how things like TBT aren’t causing a massive short squeeze, but it appears that they aren’t.  So cautious here.

 

The prices paid on ISM was very high today.  The CRB index is getting higher by the day.  The dollar is weak.  So there are signs of commodity inflation, if nothing else, but that should help put a floor on how low treasury yields go.

 

Finally, and possibly most important, is that we are annoying most of the rest of the world.  Bernanke often said that trade barriers established during the great depression made the problem worse.  He urged government not to repeat that act, and they haven’t.  But his policies are starting to have that same impact.  Countries blame QE for their mess.  Countries are starting to question the sense of having a single reserve currency.

So I don’t like what is going on here.

What is worse, is that I do believe that if treasuries crack at all, then retail will exit high yield and investment grade bonds and with spreads already leaking there will be no hedge fund demand.  In fact, hedge funds will become forced sellers.  Then the real final bid, the pension funds and insurance companies, who are already fairly long risk, will hold off using their capital until the pain grows.

It will be the drop in corporate bond prices that cause the real problem, but it will be precipitated by a treasury sell-off.  One that we haven’t seen yet.  Hopefully we won’t see.   Hopefully some perception of “safety” and concerns about how weak growth will be will hold down treasury yields, but I am extremely nervous.

Positioning/Model Portfolio

We are selling the remaining 5% of SPY March 180 puts.  We want to sell them before they become completely intrinsic value.

We should probably sell XOVER protection, but will hold on to it for now (in no small part because it is now after noon and London has shut).

We might take some IG off later today (we added a tiny bit more on Friday around lunchtime).

I am very close to going short treasuries.  Not the long bond.  Maybe the 10 year.  Maybe the 5 year.  Maybe we do via interest rate swaps.  I am looking to see what expresses my concern the most with the least amount of damage if I am wrong.  This is difficult to pull the trigger on since you know my feeling on TBT and since I am bearish enough stocks that it is hard to get too jazzed up about a treasury sell-off.

 


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Tue, 02/04/2014 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Jason T
Jason T's picture

i like charts and or pictures.. 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

Some breaking news for you Tyler: Google fined 1 billion euros by the french tax man... that gotta hurt!

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:19 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I just love the French people, but that government is whack.  Tax & Fine is not fine.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yeah well I flipped off the Streetview car yesterday.  It might not hurt them as bad but on the other hand, there's no appeal.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Happy to see someone else besides me is flippin off the Google cam. I try to get a look at the drivers face and from the lack of expression on the drivers face to being flipped the bird they probably get flipped off quite a lot.

If I could I'd stick my ass out the window and give him a good shot of the Gooch (grindle).

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

" trade barriers established during the great depression made the problem worse.  He urged government not to repeat that act, and they haven’t."

 

Devaluating currencies is the same war fought on a different front. But I'm sure Bernanke secretly knows that.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 19:04 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Right, but some fair trade adjustments might create some jobs, and we couldn't have that, could we?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:15 | Link to Comment Derezzed
Derezzed's picture

What could possibly go wrong ? BTFD

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:32 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Long sex for the next 7 years

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:00 | Link to Comment TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I don't understand how we can call this a "sell off". It seems to me like this is but a blip on the charts compared to where the market would be without the Fed pumping it up. I think we need to lose a few thousand more points off the DOW before we can call it a sell off. 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I think (Hope) we will see a few dozen more bankers commiting suicide before we can call it a "sell off" :)

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:09 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

^Charts on this Tyler?
There has got to be a correlation.

pods 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:28 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

causation = correlation = coroner

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:10 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

Agreed,

 

I think the jury is out as it relates to the tapering ,,are they really?? Do we know for sure?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:30 | Link to Comment El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

We don't, and we won't until this all has had time to play out.  Even more, even if they are tapering, we don't really know if the taper is really $85bn -> $75bn -> $65bn or $105bn -> $95bn -> 85bn. 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:00 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

A Ponziconomy does tend to cause this type of consternation and confusion.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

It must suck to have to trade and advise for a living this shit show.

Lots O luck to who still do...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:25 | Link to Comment slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

I do and yes it does suck. I am not really a trader but more of a long term retirement advisor (mostly funds and etf's).

What sucks is that most everyone has drank the poison and wants to try their hand at trading now. Having any cash on the sidelines has become taboo. I have people rattling my ass to invest that last 5% of their cash allocation into equities which are already overallocated (couldn't buy fixed income for LT). They get extremely pissed when I won't. If it's any consolation the calls have abated the last few weeks.

Then you have the ones that lost all faith in 2007 and sold most of their stocks in 2010 and 2011 (at least they held that long) and missed most of the last 2 years also wanting to buy now.

It is not easy to manage, so basically I don't. The thought of options or short funds for protection just make stheir heads swim. So sit back and let it happen and defer, defer, defer any buying. You can't make pyschopaths and the pyscholacks happy so I sit on my guns until the chaff goes away or my buy points get reached.

Not much joy in Mudville.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:30 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Reading through the literature on hyper-inflation, one will find that they all cause the general public to speculate and trade on the stock and other markets.

It's a symptom of inflation.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:49 | Link to Comment slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

I am sure when we see hyper inflation that will be the case in the US markets as well. The only reason to nedure the volatility of stocks long term is an attempt to outpace inflation. According to well accepted economic principles hyper inflation needs demand and money in the hand sof the consumers. We really are not seeing that at this point and if it wasn't for price fixing we would be seeing deflation.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 16:21 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

I respectfully disagree.

My contention is that over the years the public has adjusted to the FedRes' persistent inflation by speculating. One also sees the same negative societal effects manifesting themselves as well.

All of it has happened slowly over many years, but the effects seem to be the same.

Another way to view it is to consider the theft of the FedRes as changing the economy from non-zerosum to zerosum--"From dog eat rabbit to dog eat dog."

Just food for thought.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 18:29 | Link to Comment X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

money man. deflation causes hyperinflation.

its the loss in confidence in the fiat, the system that causes the medium to devalue relative to real, consumer, goods (especially when credit supply / asset values collapse)

the resultant reaction, exacerbates,

and the cpi calculated properly d show it true at the time, even as rents fell

see the 70s taught the Keynesians with a brain (meaning their doing it cuz of the benefits derived form other ppls capital) that rising prices can co-exist with depression (and even falling prices in fin assets should credit deflation/ mon deflation take root)

one taking root, woud b the printing of fiat till short rates go negative, eliminating > 1/2 of the dollar supply, or other shadow banking clog, such as the belief gross is net, or that Amuricans dont want to back the DoddFrank centralized shared good-asset warehouses

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Why not just throw them all out annd let the real free market take over...?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:44 | Link to Comment WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

How would they be able to skim off the top of all those free market currencies? Must have control ,must have laws to protect whatever they deem is money.

Competition is sin, especially when your running the ultimate CON job.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:04 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

I agree that the USA is pissing off quite a few countries with our game....and they have to be thinking of doing something else....problem is..there is not much else out there right now.....is it the Yuan..or PMs...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Think outside the box.Most Chinese I've dealt with tend to.

How about a gold backed BRIC for instance for international  trade ,

and have national fiats as the 2nd tier tied to the USD and/or BRIC.

Well the USD would soon disappear.

.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:06 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

Biometrics, chemometrics are two areas I am familiar with as far as programming. If algos are focussing on better than 95%+ probabilities and the outcomes are subsequently made part of the decision making basis set, well, the algo outcomes will force the market in one direction. I am sure outliers, while many could be significant, are not included in the principle component basis sets.  The problem is that outliers in the past have actually been predictors of changes.

No shit, this is Skynet.

 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:05 | Link to Comment papa_lazarou
papa_lazarou's picture

My fear is that the Internet will continue to undermine the quality of writing in general as fewer and fewer people consider the value of proofreading and editing.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:08 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Grammar, indeed language, is sooooo 1990s.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:22 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

That is not a fear, it is a fact.

But then again, I challenge anyone here to name or point to even ONE current social/cultural/political trend that is for the positive.  Just one.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:23 | Link to Comment i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Marijuana legalization?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:38 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

OK, I'll grant you that one.

Now, can you find a second one?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

I got one.

The more TPTB keep tightening the screws, the more and more Americans continually squeeze out enough currency from their pitifully smaller pay checks to keep buying record numbers of firearms.

And that, my friend, is the meaning of, " the trend is your friend".

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Large increase in home gardening.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:31 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

WTF u talkin' bout bro?

Their gunna be moar txt'n n' swipin' wit internets!

(thumb swipe - bleep boop - jingle - like - hashtag - burp)

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

ROR!

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:15 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Consumerist trendsucking geekism is very much the mattering thing.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:08 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

The biggest fear is that in a moment of clarity, Obama stops reading the teleprompter and says:

 "We are lying, we are all fucked. It is all going to collapse and there is nothing we can do to stop it."

pods

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:13 | Link to Comment astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

scary, but beautiful at the same time.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:07 | Link to Comment SeanJKerrigan
SeanJKerrigan's picture

Hope no one minds a little shameless self promotion, you might enjoy this.

US Government is Partially Responsible for Philip Seymour Hoffman’s Death

 

Also enjoy these quotes:

“As the human caravan continues down the centuries, rulers and priests still dominate us. They constantly rein in our independence as they transform us into serfs or slaves or soldiers or salesmen. And now, without even realizing it, we are suffocating beneath the ultimate indignation. We have been degraded so profoundly that we don’t even cringe when we are called consumers.” — Ray Jason, The Sea Gypsy Philosopher

“I want to share something with you: The three little sentences that will get you through life. Number 1: Cover for me. Number 2: Oh, good idea, Boss! Number 3: It was like that when I got here.” — Homer Simpson

“Fear is the cheapest room in the house. I would like to see you living in better conditions.” — Hafiz

“Pain does not create a long-lasting memory, but the memory of luxury exerts itself for ever.” — Paul Theroux, “The Happy Isles of Oceania

“We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us.” — Marshall McLuhan

“Capitalist society, centered on the eternal repetition of the commodity, neurotically represses the terrible truth that there was a time when it never was, in that gesture of self-delusion known as ideology.” — Terry Eagleton

“The major advances in civilization are processes that all but wreck the societies in which they occur.” — Albert North Whitehead

“The stores along Hollywood Boulevard were already beginning to fill up with overpriced Christmas junk, and the daily papers were beginning to scream about how terrible- it would be if you didn’t get your Christmas shopping done early. It would be terrible anyway; it always is.” - Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye (1953)

American journalists are scared of not being scared enough. They know if they don't take fear seriously, nobody will take them seriously. – @FearDept

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:21 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Well, if that's true I'm going to have to quit bitchin about my tax dollars being wasted, because that's an effort I can fucking get behind and push.

 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:00 | Link to Comment thethirdcoast
thethirdcoast's picture

Theroux is full of crap and his books are terrible.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 17:23 | Link to Comment SeanJKerrigan
SeanJKerrigan's picture

Haven't read it, but objection is noted.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:10 | Link to Comment madbraz
madbraz's picture

What a bunch of garbage.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I think they could just write the algos so that they never really sell.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:19 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

The algos have to use variables that are "predictable". When you see the system overwhelmed like yesterday, and assuming non-humans were in charge, it meant that whatever variables they were using to generate their algos were incorrectly weighted in predicting the outcomes. In essence, as the systems start to introduce variables 1.) not seen or accounted for or 2.) underweighted in the algorithm used for the model, you see a breakdown.

Chaos has a very interesting way of working into these systems because it's chaos. I believe some of the "fat finger" episodes of the past few years were over reaction to chaos worming it's way to the surface.

The place is full of worms.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Martin Silenus
Martin Silenus's picture

Why don't sharks attack bankers?   Professional courtesy.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Nic. And why don't sharks attack lawyers?

Instinctive recognition of poisonous prey.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Because sharks have taste.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:19 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Relax. That's nothing compared to radiation sickness.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Randoom Thought
Randoom Thought's picture

A. The largest international banks control price through market makers, specialists, large positions, crony hedge funds and computer trading

B. The large international banks guarantee market liquidity and are the buyers of last resort

C. The large international banks have the ability to create as much fiat money as they want to support A. & B. above.

It is logical to assume given that A., B. and C. above are true then if the markets go down then the large international banks CHOSE to bring them down and if the markets go up, then the large international banks CHOSE to bring them up.

In recent year (and though most of history) it has been in the interest of the large international banks to be perma-bulls because if they manage prices up, then they get to claim profits on a mark-to-market basis and pay themselves large bonuses. Cash is irrelevant since they create all of the currency they want and pay it to themselves with the help of the Fed.

This practice will continue to be allowed as long as politicians and retirees are dependent on the Ponzi scheme. If the banks do not hold up their part of the bargain, politicians will no longer be wealthy elite and retirees will be kicked out of their fully paid for houses, due to property taxes, and will die of starvation... or that is what we have been led to believe.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:30 | Link to Comment sgorem
sgorem's picture

"Countries are starting to question the sense of having a single reserve currency." fuck 'em. if they don't keep stuffing those greenbacks under their dirt floor straw mattresses, then we'll send in Seal Team Six, backed by an army, navy, airforce & marines to bomb, burn, and blast these hapless anarchists to oblivion. Then, once the smoke has cleared, and we've rewarded Haliburton & Blackwater with a GAZILLION BAZILLION dollars (in cash) of taxpayer money to go in and "rebuild" their country into a clone democracy with ex-jpm, goldman, or anyother blood sucking puppet of the US Central Bank to oversee the continued extraction of said countries assets, ie., oil, gold, etc. WE'VE gotta show the world the error of their ways, and this, by far, is the most profitable! ps. and as an aside, Peter, you sound like a little chicken shit.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Breezy47
Breezy47's picture

Obama had Seal Team Six deep sixed...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Be wary of any 'death by helicopter crash'.  Really all that means is, "we recovered these bodies from a helicopter crash, and therefore the helicopter crash must be what killed 'em".  In other words, die during black ops, or hell, even in your bunk, and it will be reported as "death by helicopter crash".

 

 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:31 | Link to Comment BaggerDon
BaggerDon's picture

In our view, this is very true............why we call this a LAKE OKECHOBEE MARKET,,,,it might be wide, but in reality it is very very shallow....

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:31 | Link to Comment besnook
besnook's picture

it was a lot more fun trading against fellow humans. the only way to trade robots is to watch their behavior against empirical measures like moving averages to find the trigger points for buying and selling.

this article hits the nail on the head. there is some point when the algos MUST crash the system because too many of them are set up at the same point to sell. it will be worse than 1987 even with the market safety rules. ironicall, the only way to prevent such a crash scenario is human intervention.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

My biggest fear is that they find El Dorado... city of gold...

BESIDES THAT I'M GOOD!!!

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 13:54 | Link to Comment uncle_vito
uncle_vito's picture

Shorting bonds?   I would rather watch ink dry.   Seems like a long shot to me.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:03 | Link to Comment stock trout
stock trout's picture

What is this "fear" and "nervous" bullshit? If you think the market will go up then go long, if you think it will go down then go short. If you fear which way the market will go then you have no business being a market advisor or in any fucking market at all. 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:56 | Link to Comment sgorem
sgorem's picture

thankyou MR. Trout.....................

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:08 | Link to Comment dcj98gst
dcj98gst's picture

Going to reverse at close.  Dow negative?

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 15:19 | Link to Comment dcj98gst
dcj98gst's picture

Breaking

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:11 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the big boys wait until the 100DMA is taken out and they buy, wink wink. i have noticed over the years that reversals tend to come at round numbers which have no official charting importance. so the phone rings, a voice says 1200, hangs up, repeat the same thing X the number of big institutions. the guy making the call is in the basement of mariner eccles (we have seen how the fed emails its information to privileged clients). if you happen to be clever or prescient you can figure out where its mostly likely to happen, and take your shot. back in the day i followed some of these small story stocks, and the 50 and 100ma were like gold, its called painting the tape, when it comes to the indexes its called chasing the sell stops out of their positions. this is how the now extinct day trader went out of business. 

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:16 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Here's an obvious 'win...win' solution: the SEC should impose a "net sale" rule whereby one can only sell stock if one has already bought 10% more, in dollar terms, than is being sold.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:52 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

How about this solution:  You fall off of a cliff and die if you try and sell.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 14:49 | Link to Comment assistedliving
assistedliving's picture

wait till Friday's report...and then wait some moar

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 16:02 | Link to Comment sgorem
sgorem's picture

yeah, let's just all wait. somewhere i read that on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to fucking zero. let's just hurry up and keep on waiting............

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 18:23 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

The application of the Normal Curve on market movements was a flawed concept from the beginning.

I would be very happy if it died...

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 19:30 | Link to Comment magne13
magne13's picture

As far as trading goes, rarely do things move in a straight line, thus is the case today, the moving averages are a perfect spot to take a breather, let weak hands that sold try to rebuy  and make some money back in equities and for bonds, today was nothing more than a little profit taking and some minor weak shorts.  The bonds are going higher and the stocks are going lower, all for the reasons you pointed out here, there are really no more outright speculators, everyone is a spreader, in some way shape or form.  Now the MovAvgs may bring in some CTA, hedge fund trend followers, who, I think are the ones who drove the move yesterday and are seeing a bit of red P+L today, but overall the bond and equity markets are due for a fundamental shift.  You talk of corps and spreads will widen as risk gets whacked, this is not US Bond negative, it is the exact opposite, this will further exacerbate the rush into treasuries.  See I see it like this, when everyone thinks that bonds are worthless and that everyone should be long stocks, even the old timers, than I gotta say, that this asset allocation is barely into the first inning.  I feel a lot of complacent managers out there are about to get their ass handed to them, the bond bull has barely left the gate.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:59 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a LOT of dumb fucks think 50, 100 & 200 moving day averages matter but they don't.

Fractions of pennies & seconds matter. Open interest & stops which are exposed to the HFT algos matter.

Most of these dumb fucks think it's "technical" analysis to draw funny pictures on their charts & don't even know the difference between exponential weighted moving average or the non-weighted moving average.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!