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The Countdown To The Nationalization Of Retirement Savings Has Begun

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Nick Giambruno via Casey Research's International Man,

Simply put, the new myRA program put forward by Obama is at best a sucker's deal… or worse, it's a first step toward the nationalization of private retirement savings. (Note: If you haven't yet heard of myRA, I'd strongly suggest you read this excellent overview by my colleague Dan Steinhart.)

Even before the new myRA program was announced, there had been whispers about the need for the US government to assume some risk for US retirement accounts. That's code for forced conversion of private retirement assets into government bonds.

With foreigners not buying as many Treasuries and the Fed tapering, the US government has been searching for new buyers of its unwanted debt. And this is where the new myRA program comes in.

In short, it's ostensibly a new way for people to save for retirement. Of course, you can only invest in government-approved investments—like Treasuries—which probably won't even come close to keeping up with the real rate of inflation. It's like Jim Grant says: "return-free risk."

In reality, a myRA doesn't really provide any significant new benefits over existing options. To me it just looks like a way for the US government to pass the hot potato on to unsuspecting Americans in exchange for their retirement savings.

The net effect is the funneling of more capital to Treasury securities and thus helping the US government finance itself.

You'd be much better off using a precious metals IRA to save for retirement than participating in the government's latest Ponzi scheme.

There are other protective strategies as well, such as internationalizing your retirement savings into assets that are hard, if not impossible, to confiscate on a whim—like foreign real estate and physical gold held abroad. More on that below.

Retirement Savings Are Always Juicy Targets

As bad as it is to deceive naïve Americans into trading their hard-earned retirement savings for garbage (i.e., Treasury securities), the myRA program potentially represents something far worse… the first step toward the nationalization of existing private retirement accounts.

I believe myRA is a way to nudge the American people into gradually becoming more accustomed to government involvement in their private retirement savings.

It's incorrect to assume nationalization couldn't happen in the US or your home country. History shows us that it's standard operating procedure for a government in dire financial straits.

In just the past six years, it's happened in some form in Argentina, Poland, Portugal, Hungary, and numerous other countries.

To me it's self-evident that most Western governments (including the US) have current debt loads and future spending commitments that all but guarantee that eventually—and likely someday soon—they will try to unscrupulously grab as much wealth as they can.

And retirement savings are a juicy target—low-hanging fruit for a desperate government.

Naturally, politicians will try to slickly sell the idea to the public as something "for their own good" or as "protection from market instability." This is how similar programs were sold to skeptical publics in the past.

In reality, governments take these actions not to "reduce the risk" to your retirement savings or whatever propaganda they happen to come up with, but rather to obtain financing—by forcefully dumping their unwanted debt onto seniors and savers.

Below are several ways it has happened or could happen. Of course, there could always be some sort of new, creative proposal that was previously unthinkable. No matter the method, however, the end result is always the same—the siphoning off of purchasing power from your retirement savings.

New Contribution Mandate: The government could mandate, for example, that 50% of new contributions to private retirement accounts must consist of "safe," government-approved investments, like Treasury securities.

Forced Conversions: This is where a government will forcibly convert existing assets held in retirement accounts into so-called "safer" assets, such as government bonds. For example, if the US government forcibly converted 20% of the estimated $20 trillion in retirement assets (401k plans, IRAs, defined benefit and contribution plans, etc.), it would net them $4 trillion. Not a bad score, considering the national debt is north of $17 trillion.

Special Taxes: The government could look into levying special taxes on distributions from retirement, especially those deemed to be "excessively large."

In order to be more effective, forced conversations probably wouldn't happen until after official capital controls have been instituted. Once in place, capital controls would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for you to avoid the wealth confiscation that is sure to follow… like a sheep that has just been penned in for a shearing.

Since FATCA and other regulatory burdens already amount to a soft form of capital controls, it's absolutely essential that you start implementing protective measures now.

It's like I have always said: internationalization is your ultimate insurance against the measures of a desperate government. In the case that the government makes a grab for retirement savings, it's much better to be a year or two early rather than a minute too late.

Internationalize Your Retirement Savings

It's much more difficult for the government to convert your retirement assets if they're outside of its immediate reach. If you have a standard IRA from a large US financial institution, it would only take a decree from the US government and Poof!: your dividend-paying stocks and corporate bonds could instantly be transformed into government bonds.

Obviously, this is much harder for the government to do if your retirement assets are sufficiently internationalized.

For example, you can structure your IRA to invest in foreign real estate, open an offshore bank or brokerage account, own certain types of physical gold stored abroad, and invest in other foreign and nontraditional assets.

In my view, owning an apartment in Switzerland and some physical gold coins stored in a safe deposit box in Singapore beats the cookie-cutter mutual funds shoved down your throat by traditional IRA custodians any day.

If and when there's some sort of decree to convert or otherwise confiscate the assets in your retirement account, your internationalized assets ensure that your savings won't vanish at the stroke of a pen.

There are important details and a couple of restrictions that you'll need to be aware of, but they amount to minor issues, especially when weighed against the risk of leaving your retirement savings within the immediate reach of a government desperate for cash.

After placing a juicy steak in front of a salivating German shepherd, it's only a matter of time before he makes a grab for it. The US government with its $17 trillion debt load is the salivating German shepherd, and the $20 trillion in retirement savings is the juicy steak.

Internationalizing your IRA has always been a prudent and pragmatic thing to do. And now that the US government has now officially set its sights on retirement savings, it's truly urgent.

You'll find all the details on how it to get set up, along with trusted professionals who specialize in internationalizing IRAs in our Going Global publication.

 

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Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:47 | 4404420 CPL
CPL's picture

Sometime Friday or next week.  Beta testing has been done in Europe already in a couple of countries.  Now the rest of the western world gets it between the eyes.

 

Got Gold/Silver/BtC?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:47 | 4404430 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

If you want your IRA, tough shit

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:50 | 4404442 Doña K
Doña K's picture

If you want your Retirement account, we can keep it for you.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:04 | 4404452 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Knock Knock

Who's there?

MyRA

MyRA who?

That's right - MY RA eventually, NOT YOUR RA, bitch!

- Sincerely,

BigSis/BigGov.org

p.s. - Thanks for direct depositing Your RA into MY RA, bitch!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:07 | 4404494 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

If you like your retirement account, you can keep your retirement account.

Forward (in free fall)!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:16 | 4404539 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Molon labe, bitchez!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:43 | 4404662 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

I checked out the bottom of ZH's page and it said this:

"Copyright ©2009-2013 ZeroHedge.com/ABC Media"

 

ABC?!  ugggh!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:49 | 4404683 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

What time is it, boys and girls?  It's time to NOT CONTRIBUTE, that's what time it is!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:50 | 4404694 redpill
redpill's picture

We should really stop making predictions on Zerohedge.  I think we're starting to give these fucking madmen ideas that would have taken them a lot longer to come up with on their own.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:55 | 4404707 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Intelligent people permuting dystopian settings for the folks who like to make them come true... ow my balls!

And what's up with puttin all yer gold in Singapore? A trip to Singapore for a few days and back costs around 2-3K, accounting for airline, hotel, ground transportation, food, and stuff. Then you gotta pay a decent sum for a private service to house your gold. Would my guess of 10K/year for a small locker be in the ballpark? Not in Joe Average's affordability range...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:59 | 4404723 redpill
redpill's picture

I tried to save money and take a boat there, but sadly it sank and all my gold was lost.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:20 | 4404854 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

That's really common. I hope you didn't lose any weapons or ammunition, in addition to.

Sorry for your loss as result of such a Tragic Boating Accident.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:44 | 4404974 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They "Madoff with MyRA".

"If you can't stand in front of it and defend it with an AR-15, you don't own it." Ann Barnhardt

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:50 | 4405012 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

CT Collectivist Gun Grabber Ruthlessly Exposed By Sipsey Street Irregulars:

http://americandictators.blogspot.com/2014/02/mike-vanderboeghs-2nd-lett...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:16 | 4405481 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

ABC Media, LTD search results.

 

https://www.google.com/#q=ABC+Media%2C+LTD

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:48 | 4405428 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

The only retirement options for those who aren't already retired will be in a forced labor camp. Make sure you submit your applications to FEMA soon. You don't want to get stuck with one of the undesirable jobs like cleaning up the shitters or raking up the ashes of those who couldn't contribute their fair share.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:21 | 4404859 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Like Chuck Heston said at the NRA about his guns...

 

"You can have my gold and silver - but you'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands."

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:35 | 4404912 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

"Get you are hand off me, you are damn dirty ape" - Charleston Heston

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:41 | 4404945 akak
akak's picture

"The Forbidden Zone was once a paradise.  The Federal Reserve made it a wasteland."

- Dr. Zeus Bernanke

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:47 | 4404980 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

Gratuitous Linda Harrison [NOVA] foto link

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:14 | 4405164 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Rock me, Dr. Zeus.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:32 | 4405269 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Ah, another fan of legitimate Theater!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:34 | 4404904 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Nomination for Director of new MyRA - Ben Dover.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:30 | 4405554 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

 

Ben Dover dry or with Obama tears

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:11 | 4405106 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

deleted

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:52 | 4405374 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Actually the entire program to nationalize retirement accounts was started before ZH existed. More on that another time.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:29 | 4405556 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Actually WS has given the US Gov a strong argument they can use.  Every month there are guys who point out data where their 401 plans drop just before they pay in for that month.  WS Scumsuckers manipulating for a few extra pennies.... helped this come about. 

 

But don't fret about WS Banksters, who do you think will administer this fiasco?  JPM Chase.... and GS

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:58 | 4406096 red_pill
red_pill's picture

I just did my taxes online with taxact, and at te end I was given a choice of a refund check mailed, a deposit to my bank, or I could buy treasuries with the refund money....hmm let me think...I think I will take the cash

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:47 | 4405349 Lewshine
Lewshine's picture

 

 

 

 

 

Myra is just a test of the average American's level of gullibity - Which is WAY past the red line!!

 

(They will stand in line to hand over their hard earned)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:39 | 4404944 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

OH shit good catch!  So this is a MSM honey pot!  Fuck too late now I am already on the list I guess.  I wonder how much longer we will be able to say fuck...

ABC response:  Anything that you say/type/post can and will be used against you in a tribunal.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:53 | 4405021 A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

 

This comes up every couple years.  Look into it, its not the same ABC you are thinking of..

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:02 | 4405088 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Right you are.  The real ABC can be found here

www.whitehouse.gov  

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:26 | 4405232 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

MIC [see you real soon]... K-E-Y... M-O-U-S-E

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:01 | 4405671 The Wisp
The Wisp's picture

But does ABC, read their own web site I doubt it.. or they send in a flunky to read it

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:05 | 4406118 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Since it may be too complicated to grasp the painfully obviously, allow us to explain:

ABC Media, Ltd. (of which there are about 100 different versions in the world registered in about 100 different countries), an offshore entity, has zero relationship whatsoever with ABC Corp, a US entity.

Is it simpler now?

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 11:55 | 4407779 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

Juggsy! That's been hashed out already dude.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:51 | 4404696 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

To believe that your retirement assets can be outside of .gov's immediate reach is niave at best especially if your physical body is located within .govs jurisdiction.

From punitive taxes for holding outside bank/retirement accounts to police state actions forcing you to repatriate your assets for the good of the country of course, .gov has many ways to make you talk.

If you have significant retirement assets and plan to move them offshore then you'd better go with them.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:54 | 4404706 redpill
redpill's picture

That's a might nice watch you have there.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:42 | 4404952 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Why, thank you.  I hid this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass two years.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:21 | 4405747 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"you a bit fah from home, boy, ain't cha'"

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:15 | 4404537 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Knock Knock

Who's there?

MyRA

BANG!  (That was My AR!)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:01 | 4404751 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

If you like your retirement account, you can keep your retirements account. No one will take that away from you... Period!

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:40 | 4404940 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I already have one of those "MyAR" accounts. I also have some "MyAK" accounts, too.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:46 | 4404978 nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

stupid question, but the $20 trillion is alrady heavily invested in treasuries, no doubt.  If the government forces more of that 20 tr into treasuries, then people would be forced to liquidate stocks.  How could the market not crater with trillions of equity outflows?  Worth it for the gov i guess?

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:35 | 4404612 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The military pay system used to be called Mypay.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:56 | 4404457 max2205
max2205's picture

From my dead cold hands......

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:25 | 4404571 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Nope, from your brokers' and bankers', warm, spinning hard drives

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:35 | 4405299 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

It's amazing how they openly tell you what they are going to do...

I had a broker - now I'm broke.
I bought some bonds - now I'm bound.

No one gets it. Until they get it.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:23 | 4405752 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"From my dead cold hands......"

"Your Proposal Is Acceptable!"

- Ned

{MIB's best line, imho}

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:00 | 4404476 clooney_art
clooney_art's picture

The government is burning through 6.6 trillion in 5 years. What's 4 Trillion in Retirement confiscation worth ? It may buy them 4 years tops.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:20 | 4404551 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Learn to think like a sociopath. A congressmen would cream their jeans to get their hands on $10,000 of someone else's money. $4T is the holy grail to them. They don't think logically like you and me. That's why the world is in this mess.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:27 | 4404576 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Bingo!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:55 | 4404708 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The real idea is just to force you to start contributing to the scheme.

And, each year the contribution level will increase.

They got mucho imperial wars that need fighting.

So, do your patriotic duty and start contributing today.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:59 | 4404738 wearef_ckedwith...
wearef_ckedwithnohope's picture

I posted last week that this is connected with the Taper.  Some clown responded that the Treasury wouldn't even be bothered by such a pittance amount.

I chose not to respond - I'm glad the author identifies the Taper as a substantial reason (along w/ reduced foreign purchases)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:10 | 4404519 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

Think about this also with the FDIC being in such sad shape if there was a collapse they could say the only way to get anything back is a bail in.

 

"Surely, you say, the federal government is going to keep its promises, at least on insured deposits. Yes, the Federal Government (via the FDIC) insures deposits in most institutions up to $250,000. But there is a problem with this insurance. The FDIC currently has far less money in its fund than it has insured deposits: as of Sept. 1, about $41 billion in reserve against $6 trillion in insured deposits. (There are over $9 trillion on deposit at U.S. banks, by the way, so more than $3 trillion in deposits is completely uninsured.)"

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:19 | 4404558 SDShack
SDShack's picture

MyRA = sounds Greek to me.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:48 | 4405626 DeusHedge
DeusHedge's picture

Sounds gooner to me. Or goner? Anyway get rich or die trying.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:23 | 4404565 Freddie
Freddie's picture

ZH stills has douchebag Dems who voted for this,  Nice job.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:57 | 4404715 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Don't judge them too harshly.

Early in life they were replaced by pods and are only following the hive's directives.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:58 | 4404467 semperfi
semperfi's picture

you didn't save that

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:25 | 4404568 midtowng
midtowng's picture

The reaction to MyRA is overblown here. It really doesn't have much significance. It's for suckers is all.

That's not to say they won't one day come for your retirement savings, it just will be something far different.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:32 | 4404593 aerojet
aerojet's picture

In some ways yes, in other ways, no.  The initial rollout of MyRA is benign enough, but as others have suggested here, there could be layers of expansion done in the years to come.  Government control creeps up on you, it does not happen all at once.

Something will have to happen, all the Boomers can't cash out all in the same 5-10 year span.  'Investments' were never designed to cash out of, only to collect funds in them.  You're not supposed to cash out, EVER.  They say cashing out is the main reason you're 'saving' for, but it really isn't.  And that's the problem...it's another Ponzi.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:32 | 4405257 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"'Investments' were never designed to cash out of, only to collect funds in them. You're not supposed to cash out, EVER."

Guys like you with simple insights make me love ZH.

What is the real current story of the Tyler's by the way ?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:47 | 4404982 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

I disagree.  It will go down just like Obobocare.  The FSA will vote in favor on the "tax" on those that have IRA savings, hence they don't.  Then those of us who actually produce for the FSA will fucked again just like Obamacare.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:10 | 4405708 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

Oy, numnutz! Just the fact that this is happening is bad enough.  Now we have to do something about this.  Keep your head down!

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:50 | 4407224 torak
torak's picture

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

Ha ha ha ha ha, chortle, snark... (rinse/repeat)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:55 | 4404455 GolfHatesMe
GolfHatesMe's picture

Is this from that Fuckstain George Miller?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:04 | 4404478 semperfi
semperfi's picture

all your bitcoin, it now belongs to us, sucka - hahaha!!!
sincerely,
NSA/CIA/FBI

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:39 | 4404622 booboo
booboo's picture

"Take your paws off my retirement you damn dirty ape" 

Charlton Heston, Planet of the Apes

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:40 | 4404628 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Please don´t let this happen in the U.S. It will set a very bad example for rest of the so called free world. Get your mojo working and throw the bums out.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:34 | 4406222 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

last i heard the irs wasn't responding to set them up. 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:14 | 4404830 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Let me retire those savings for ya.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:36 | 4405307 Superdude
Superdude's picture

CPL

 

While some of your posts contain interesting logic, many have catastrophic endings. Your one about fukushima some time ago where you referenced watching the watchers and fully believing that a nuclear event was imminent is an example, similar to this post. I agree that things are going to get bad, but decay takes time. The more logical play is for. Gov to continue the pony show until some other scheme is hatched, and they can carry on schemes for some time. Humans are all about self interest and greed, it's just that some of us are in a position to affect many others with our own self interested actions.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:36 | 4405586 Jeepers Creepers
Jeepers Creepers's picture

What's more likley, the government seizing retirement accounts and have an angry mob to deal with, or they punch a few key strokes and print the trilliions they covet?  The answer is probably both.

 

The sad thing is, seeing the last election results, I could see our idiot voters absolutely LOVING the idea of the government making everyones 401k/IRA some sort of defined benefit pension plan that guarantees them an income for life.  Never mind it will mean they'll be eating catfood and homeless.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:12 | 4405715 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"They want your fucking retirement money ! "     George Carlin

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:59 | 4406307 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I totally agree that those techniques will be used and I have another one.  They will allow the market and/or make it continue down.  While it's going down the govt. will say that in order to protect middleclass retirement they will allow you to put your money into govt. backed retirement system.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:47 | 4404421 The Wisp
The Wisp's picture

By The Way.. how are those Treasuries funding Social Security working out for Ya..

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:29 | 4404581 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Extraordinary!  As in the extraordinary measures taken to pay bills.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:47 | 4404994 yogibear
yogibear's picture

All those special IOUs and money borrowed a while back. 

Next scam is MYRA. And the money is gone.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:45 | 4404422 Zé Cacetudo
Zé Cacetudo's picture

Great.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:47 | 4404424 stant
stant's picture

then off to the camps

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:57 | 4404456 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

The nation is the camp.

Some, but not you, have club privilege.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:29 | 4404562 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The Feds and beholden state and local governments have an "OFF" switch for any individual's or organisation's ability to transact.

They use it sparingly at present and under the cover of "law" which includes of course shit-tons of unreadable regulations as applied by bought and paid for true believing minions of the State. But it's there, and they're showing it off, making examples of people, slowly herding us into their all digital control system, ratcheting down th clamps a little more, crisis by engineered crisis.

Btw, for this part of the totalitarian play book, one must credit not Atlas Shrugged, but a much older scifi fantasy short story titled "Revelations", in English. I think it's Apocalypse in Greek.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:04 | 4404482 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

The  (Fema now known as)  Internment Camps  ?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:46 | 4404426 unrulian
unrulian's picture

1-8 ...check

9...working on it

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:51 | 4404437 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

MyRA isn't a Ponzi scheme because with a Ponzi scheme you at least have the possibility of making $ if you get out early enough. For any reasonable holding period, MyRA guarantees a loss.

"You'd be much better off using a precious metals IRA to save for retirement than participating in the government's latest Ponzi scheme."

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:53 | 4404450 BandGap
BandGap's picture

But wait! There's more!

When you pass from this earth the government gets to keep your money (how nice of you!). And they control how long you get to stay on this big blue ball through, wait for it.......ObamaCare!

You will do as you are told, until the rights to you are sold.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:34 | 4405275 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

You have been stuffed into my mold...

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 01:31 | 4406973 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

Just do as we say or you'll get rolled ....

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:00 | 4404471 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The government is going to make money off of this.  Until it doesn't.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:06 | 4404498 chunga
chunga's picture

Why would a precious metals IRA be safer?

Wouldn't the gov fucks just take that for our own good too?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:13 | 4404522 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Precious metal IRA's are ridiculous in my view. What's the point of "owning" gold if you don't own it? People want the tax break now believing the BS that their tax bracket won't be as high when they retire. We are quickly finding out that taxes have been at their lowest point we will ever see them. There is no where for them to go but up.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:14 | 4404534 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Agreed, while phyzz gold will be crucial, lead will be the better metal of the two in the long.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:19 | 4404556 chunga
chunga's picture

Thanks Doc, another thing I've been wondering about and don't see discussed here often:

Supposin' we're in post-apocalypse SHTF period and fiatzos are useless and bullion is to the moon.

What about capital gains tax? Do the zombies kill the IRS peoples?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:25 | 4404572 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Personally I don't consider the denizens of the IRS peoples. As far as capital gains... What capital gains? I don't own any gold. I did, but I lost it.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:34 | 4404598 chunga
chunga's picture

Me neither but I can picture a form of capital control that mandates that buyers furnish a receipt for all sales.

Maybe I'm just over-thinking.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:34 | 4404609 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Actually, there is a use for a gold IRA. I had a small IRA from a previous job that wasn't worth the effort to cash out. We came up with a brilliant plan. We converted it to a gold IRA and eliminated my 401k and 403B into the "real stuff". This is now my "bait" IRA because I have "nothing else to grab".

Kind of like having a safe in plain view. A thief quickly grabs it and takes off thinking he's scored. They never think of another safe being present. Of course, there are always the anthrax covered bills I have stashed in the bait safe as well. My gifts keep on giving.

Miffed;-)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:37 | 4404620 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Excellent point. Maybe I will fund a myra so they can steal what they've already stolen.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:39 | 4405805 The Wisp
The Wisp's picture

Dude, never type A-N-T-&-_X online, Christ the NSA will slow down your pc for years to come with spy ware

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:06 | 4405908 akak
akak's picture

My plutonium-smuggling jihadi friends went to a Syrian terrorist training camp on vacation, and all they brought me back was this anthrax-infected "Allahu Akbar!" T-shirt.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:11 | 4406355 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I'm a microbiologist Sweetie. I handle select agents everyday. I fill out reams of fucking paperwork to appease the government's need to track what I am doing with them. Yes, I'm on every conceivable list. Personally, joining this group probably sealed my fate more than my little microbe friends.

Miffed;-)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:34 | 4404610 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

The best precious metal can be judged via a ballistic chart or are formed to a nice sharp edge. 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:28 | 4404891 chunga
chunga's picture

+7.62x39

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:30 | 4405246 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

MIC [see you real soon]... K-E-Y... M-O-U-S-E

 

[see above]

 

Might as well just substitute 'MEDICAL' for 'MILITARY' in this case... But they're all the same in the grand context of things...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:41 | 4406248 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

think of the 3rd party fees & reporting.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:52 | 4404444 madbraz
madbraz's picture

If the government really wanted you to buy government bonds, they wouldn't have every talking head in the media talking about how government bonds are horrible and that you should never own them, instead you should keep buying garbage stocks and corporate and muni bonds.

 

If you closed the NY Fed today, stock markets would collapse and treasury bonds would soar.  There would be no bid on risk for the next 10 years and stocks wouldn't reach these levels in the next 10-20 years.  In that real world, a treasury paying 2.6% would be always be in demand.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:59 | 4404462 BandGap
BandGap's picture

And if I had a job I wouldn't be posting on these boards.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:15 | 4404536 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

If we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:38 | 4404624 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Not to stretch the point too far but, the author suggests " owning an apartment in Switzerland and some physical gold coins stored in a safe deposit box in Singapore".  Well, just traveling back and forth to  and from those places ate MY retirement savings, let's just not even think about how much "an apartment in Switzerland " would cost.

This guy is speaking to an audience I don't think I want to hang around with.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:05 | 4404764 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Grey Poupon?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:26 | 4405228 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Heinz Yellow... in a plastic packet... stolen by the handful from a takeout joint.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:43 | 4406259 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Cheap bastards.

You might be a little more discerning in the takeout joints you patronize.

Heinz is the VW.

French's is the cadillac.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:13 | 4404768 akak
akak's picture

It reminds me of all these analysts and commentators, even and especially most of those in the pro-precious metals crowd such as Doug Casey, Peter Schiff and David Morgan, who keep repeating the misinformation that the capital gains tax rate on precious metals 'profits' in the USA is a flat 28%.  NO IT IS NOT!  That rate ONLY applies to those in the highest tax brackets, those whose income tax rate already equals or exceeds 28%.  For those of more modest means and income, PM capital gains are only taxed at their prevailing income tax rate.  But most of these guys are probably very high net worth and income individuals, and so subconciously assume that their reading audience consists solely of those of similar lofty incomes and net worth as well.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:52 | 4405014 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Different sized bank accounts perhaps, but the principle is the same. It's all about thinking outside the box.

 

Think I even saw self-directed IRA 'clubs' in California who get together informally to share ideas and help each other. They get together and figure how to swap property and assets to maximize their accounts' performance or, most interestingly, work together to move IRA assets out of their qualified accounts and back into their private assets while legally avoiding all the penalities and taxes.

But you can't do any of that until you get the proper setup for yourself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:42 | 4405601 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Right on DollarMenu - he's speaking to the same audience who the Casey organization convinced to sink big money into a safe retirement community in Argentina, where there is absolutely no chance of the government confiscating foreigner's assets and throwing those same foreigners out of helicopters at 5000 feet. Of course the government thugs don't have the services of their favorite priest in helping disappear people anymore since he is now Pope.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:11 | 4404514 oddjob
oddjob's picture

treasury paying 2.6% would be always be in demand...for what?...sponging up cat piss?

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:28 | 4404582 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Johnny what do you make of this?

I have some Zimbabwe bonds that make nice wrapping paper...or a pterodactyl, or a hat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7fchtEJpy8

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:37 | 4405301 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

And Leon's getting larger.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:50 | 4404445 autofixer
autofixer's picture

Just 15 years ago I was mocked by co-workers for suggesting that this would occur.  Sheep.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:05 | 4404489 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Don't feel too bad, I was mocked last week, after the state of the coup address.

I was incredulas, told those making game of me to look it up, they were too busy.

You can't help stupid.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:30 | 4404583 semperfi
semperfi's picture

Just 15 MINUTES ago I was mocked by co-workers for suggesting that this would occur.  Sheep.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:44 | 4404661 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I was mocked last week by my wife for putting my t-shirt on inside out. It wasn't a terrible mocking but it did give me pause.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:53 | 4404446 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

Why would I keep gold coins in a safe deposit box in a foreign country when I can keep them on my boat?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:58 | 4404468 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

I hear you, keep them right next to the mak-90's and "spam" cans. 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:08 | 4404503 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

Careful! them coins been known to sink.

Lost mine in an avalanche

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:20 | 4404552 The Wisp
The Wisp's picture

I spent all my Gold On Hookers... err i mean my Wife and I give each other Gold as Presents..

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:16 | 4404841 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I was spending money on hookers and keeping the gold. But I passed out and she got to my stash. I reported it, but Costa Rica is pretty lame.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:55 | 4405048 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Great point Uncle Sugar. I can buy gold and real estate here and that is what I am doing (more the latter). I can have corruption here or there.

I also agree with another commentator that MyRa is merely a scam for suckers.

The ongoing trend outside of tax via inflation is to further criminalize and tax the population with fines. Case in point, Obamacare. Can't afford health care making burgers or waiting on tables? Your a criminal that gets a fine. The Supreme Court rightly called it a tax.

The police state is the reason I have considered moving abroad. Other commentators Casey is speaking to a niche crowd of high net worth individuals. I also agree. But if you have high net worth your doing amazingly well in gains in the USA and can afford high powered attorneys and CPA's to get you out of your jam. I am seeing a few states now backing away from the police state model. Also, one with such wealth can afford the security from real criminals.

I lived in NH which seemed to become a police state overnight. Feminazi's from MA moved up mid-nineties and won the legislature. If you had a penis in NH you were a criminal to be fined. I moved over the border into Maine and had none of those issues. Of course, Maine has a state income tax which sucks but I would rather pay the extra bucks then have a police state repeatedly call me a criminal when it is all just a nasty and counterproductive revenue scheme. I wished I had moved the business and reincorporated there too. NH did confiscation in the manner I am telling you about by retroactively changing the state law about unemployment insurance. I paid every dime but they sent me a bill for $7,000 for people on UI from 2007! I called and demanded a hearing and that I would bring all receipts for UI. They said I would receive notice abou the hearing. Meanwhile, they took the $7,000 right out of my account! Few no that NH went bankrupt in 2011. Anyways, feel my pain? It was traumatizing and made me want to commit real acts of criminal violence.

But my real point is one doesnt need to move overseas to avoid the police state. I found other methods of reclaiming my $7k from NH too. I sold them a bag of shit for tech that required management also and I walked away when they needed me most.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:55 | 4404449 glaucon was right
glaucon was right's picture

In Hungary you had to option to retain your retirement savings in a private retirement company, but with much less goverment contribution to you account.

But I figured it is better to have a lesser amount in a private account than giving all of my money to the goverment, and saying goodbye to it.

Of course the sheep went with the goverment, 98% of them gave it to the big brother.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:58 | 4404459 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

We better get towels.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:59 | 4404463 i_fly_me
i_fly_me's picture

Unfortunately for them, my life savings was lost years ago in a tragic water-sports incident.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:58 | 4404465 Herdee
Herdee's picture

Ah,duh...There's sure been a lot of gold disppearing from the warehouse lately...wonder where it's headin'?

http://www.kitco.com/news/2014-02-05/LME-Undertaking-Reviews-As-Part-Of-...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 13:58 | 4404466 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

hopey is out of his mind if he thinks anyone will buy that

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:04 | 4404492 seek
seek's picture

Oh, the true believers will. They'll think a one-time $2K contribution will entitle them to a 20+ year retirement free from want, too.

Hopey is really out of his mind, though, if he thinks IRA-level retirement confiscation is going to buy any serious time. With half the country living paycheck to paycheck, there's no cheese down that hole. They have to go after the big funds/plans and they've not pulled that trigger yet.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:15 | 4404531 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Yes , it sounds good on paper.

Don't think foreign investors will be too happy though.

Anything gained would be lost shoring up the hole 

caused by fleeing foreigners.

Putting anything in an IRA now is dumb , you may as well leave it in a

BoA checking account.Even ivy league eonomists have worked out how safe

that is.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:17 | 4404546 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

If they pull that trigger it would be suicide.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:35 | 4404614 seek
seek's picture

They will, count on it. They'll either be delusional enough to think nothing bad will happen, or they know and want to suck everyone down with them, probably with the idea of building a socialist paradise out of the rubble.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:18 | 4406176 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Seek - Agree some suckers will certainly by MyRa. Disagree they will confiscate outside of what I just mentioned. However, I hedge with gold and real estate in case they do wind up doing it. America has been here before, a culture has proclivities that dont change all that much. The deficit is shrinking and contrary to your opinion, social programs are no loner expanding, they are being cut back. So is defense. It is a horrible situation and will be so for another several years. I am bearish.

Geopolitics and a large regional war could collapase markets and cause short term supply chain disruptions with even one nuclear weapon or EMP is deployed. I hedge accordingly, but also slowly invest in the future. The next round of technological advancements are beyond even what Star Trek anticipated in fiction. It is worth the struggle to see the other side. Several years of stagflation has sucked and I anticipate several more years of it. You can still make money through cherry picking or a business but far more time and energy are required on risk management which frankly, bugs the shit out of me.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 15:46 | 4404984 Spanky
Spanky's picture

I smell a boomer stampede in the air...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:00 | 4406312 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Like this?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:14 | 4404530 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

As the article suggests, nobody has to buy it for it to work. The float is to start people thinking about the Government owning/managing your non-SS retirement account. From there, they can eventually do other "interesting" things.

We've been under a constant barrage of relentless propaganda and indoctrination since the Second World War. Governments do it, corporations do it. Everyone is in on the racket. If they think they are going to need to do something unsavoury they fire up the propaganda engine well ahead of time.

All the current MyRA kerfuffle means is that they are going to do something later that right now would not fly. But in 10 years, they think it will. What that real agenda is would be known to only a very small group of people.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:42 | 4404655 BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

We have the winner here. They are preparing. Sending messages that will someday ring true when markets suffer another equity selloff. They know if there is ever a chance of unloading all of feds current balance sheet (plus funding deficits and rollovers for the next 50 years) that starting the psychology must begin now. With one small idea at a time.

I expect any number of ideas to come from these bozos. Guaranteed rates of return on Myras, Invest In America campaigns, etc, etc. All to accomplish one thing: Must.....Keep.....Kicking.......Can.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:18 | 4405092 Spanky
Spanky's picture

A crisis is a loomin'. Stormclouds gathering. Lightenin' strikes on the financial horizon. I smell a boomer stampede in the making...

Looking to intercept the boomer inter-generational wealth transfer. Ask any hedge fund or bank economist over drinks...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:07 | 4405117 Blano
Blano's picture

Zactly.

Only a dozen years ago had you said we'd have to choose between being radiated and molested to get on a plane, you'd have been committed.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:04 | 4405421 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

But you still have a 'choice' - that's what democracy is all about......bwahaaaaaaaaaaa

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:09 | 4405445 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

A good example. And of course, we have mostly already forgotten the lesson of how we gave up and moved on.

That is the price of expediency.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:00 | 4404470 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

I still don't get who's going to buy these MyRAs. It's not like we're not already overwhelmed with investment "opportunities." Who, with any discretionary income (and the brains required to generate that discretionary income), is going to see this as the best solution? 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 14:03 | 4404479 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

A few idiots at first.  Then it will be mandated.  People won't have a choice.

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