This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Sam Zell: Tom Perkins Was Right, Top 1% "Pummeled" For Political Convenience

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"Markets were over-priced coming into 2014," warns Sam Zell (noting that he does not believe in the Fed's wealth effect perspective on market-growth helping buying and selling decisions in the real economy), but while he sees a benign outlook for residential real estate, among his biggest concerns are "half-assed" Obamacare's "deleterious effect on the USA" and its "need to be radically changed." Supportive of Carl Icahn and his 'capitalist activism', Zell adds rather frankly that he believes Tom Perkins was correct about the "the 1%... for political convenience," and reminds Bloomberg TV's Betty Liu that "the politics of envy, the politics of class warfare are what has separated America from many parts of the rest of the world," until now.

 

On Activisim:

ZELL: Well, the answer is I think activism is very right and very important in a capitalistic system.

 

LIU: Just quickly though, Sam, do we have that photo up of Carl Icahn – Carl Icahn on the cover of Time magazine? You and I talked about your relationship. You’ve dealt – you’ve been on opposite sides with Carl before. Master of the universe now. He’s made this comeback at this age, Sam. What do you think about this?

 

ZELL: Well I don’t think the word comeback is an accurate description. Carl is a force. Carl has been right. Carl has been right and committed to being right. If I had a hat, I would take it off to him. And I think America is dramatically better off for people like Carl.

On Obamacare:

LIU: In Washington, the Congressional Budget Office released some startling new numbers about the president’s healthcare plan that’s sure to fuel more of this partisan wrangling in Washington, including this nugget, that in two years Obamacare is going to affect workers by prompting them to put in less hours in order to keep their federally subsidized healthcare benefits, costing an equivalent of about 2 million jobs according to the CBO.

 

Well Sam Zell stays with us throughout the hour, someone who is very involved in both local and national politics. And Sam, what do you make of this number, 2 million jobs?

 

ZELL: Well, I think the issue is not 2 million jobs. I think the issue is what is the contribution to the GDP of – or lack of contribution of 2 million people not working. We both know lots of people who have kept their jobs because they couldn’t afford to lose their healthcare. Now they can access healthcare from exchanges, and all of a sudden keeping a job isn’t as relevant as it was before.

 

LIU: But Sam, is that a small price to pay as a country for giving everybody healthcare?

 

ZELL: I think the best comment of all goes to Nancy Pelosi. We have to pass this bill to find out what’s in it. This is only the latest example of hundreds and hundreds of mistakes that were made in the preparation of this bill.

 

LIU: But do you think it should be repealed?

 

ZELL: I think that the current form of Obamacare I think is deleterious to our country and needs to be radically changed. The word repeal, I don’t know what that word means. I think healthcare is an important issue. I think the question is how do you go about it. We went about this half-assed.

 

LIU: But it – well, but however, the cat’s out of the bag and we have to figure out what to do now with the consequences. One of the things though that – that – that seems to be observed now in Washington as we’re – as we’re working through healthcare is that maybe, according to someone like Walter Isaacson who we had on this program, maybe the fever is breaking in Washington Maybe this may be a year where the two sides come together. Do you feel that way at all, Sam?

 

ZELL: I don’t know what he’s been smoking because nothing I read suggests that. They made a couple of deals on a couple of simple things, but talk to me about immigration. Talk to me about healthcare. Talk to me about foreign policy. There’s so many issues where there’s just this extraordinary disparity between the parties and very little interest in compromise.

On Markets:

LIU: I want to bring back Sam Zell, who’s been standing by. Sam, you think the – you thought the markets were overpriced, right, going into 2014.

 

ZELL: I did.
 
LIU: Why’d you think that?
 
ZELL: Well I think the economic activity did not correlate to the price of the stock market. Stock market was up 25 or – I don’t remember how much it was up last year.
 
LIU: Like 30 percent.
 
ZELL: Thirty percent. I (inaudible) companies. We didn’t see any – any Kumbaya happening. So from our perspective it’s a function of too much liquidity.
 
LIU: So do you feel that this is pretty healthy then to see this – to see this kind of decline?
 
ZELL: I don’t think declines are ever healthy, but balance is what keeps us in place. And when we get out of balance like subprime loans or whatever, it’s pretty disastrous. So the market has to keep balancing back and forth as consecutive (ph) currents are relevant. And I think the market in 2014 is a lot more likely to reflect what happened in 2014 than whether or not it was up or down in January.
 
LIU: But does it make you nervous at all, Sam? I know not much makes you nervous at all, but – but seeing how volatile these markets have been over the last few weeks, does it make you more nervous that Americans are going to look at this and pull back and perhaps they may not be buying as much anymore? They may not be selling as – as many houses or buying as many houses.
 
ZELL: The market went up 30 percent last year. Did the American people buy everything in sight? No. So what’s the relevance now? I don’t think the market has a dramatic impact on buying and selling decisions unless it’s such a prolonged period like we had in ‘08 and ‘09 that it really dampens everything.

On Inequality, Government Complexity, and Persecution of the 1%:

LIU: Let me ask you about Tom Perkins because you are part of the 1 percent. You are clearly part of the 1 percent. Tom Perkins came out with this – with this letter where he defended the 1 percent and he said, look, we are being persecuted the same as the – as the Nazis were persecuting the Jews. And he was just lambasted and he came on our network and defended it. How did you feel when you read that letter and when you heard his comments?
 
ZELL: I guess my feeling is that he’s right. The 1 percent are being pummeled because it’s politically convenient to do so. The problem is that the world and this country should not talk about envy of the 1 percent. It should talk about emulating the 1 percent. The 1 percent work harder. The 1 percent are much bigger factors in all forms of our society.
 
LIU: But Sam, tell that – tell that to the person who’s on minimum wage who’s living below the poverty line that they should try to emulate the 1 percent. How are they going to get there?
 
ZELL: The stories are rampant of people who started with a candy store and took it from there. There are lots of people who have the ambition and have the motivation and have succeed. Lots of people have come from nowhere and become part of the 1 percent.
 
LIU: But do you feel because you’re rich that you’re being persecuted?
 
ZELL: The word persecution is not the right word.
 
LIU: Okay. You’re being picked on.
 
ZELL: I think that the politics of envy, the politics of class warfare are what has separated America from many parts of the rest of the world. And we have benefited dramatically from not having class warfare, from not having envy. William Jennings Bryan in 1896 was the first person to run publicly in the United States on a platform of class warfare. He lost. And wisdom at the time said this is not America, and I think it still is not America.
 
LIU: Do you think though that there needs to be some help though or that – that there needs to be policy changes or something needs to be done about the growing income – income inequality, the growing gap? Do you think there needs to be something done with that?
 
ZELL: I think that that is a function of policies and I think that overall the policies that we passed for the last 50 years, whether it be unfunded Social Security or other issues, have all contributed to this disparity. And we need to fix our government. We don’t need 17,000 new pages of federal regulations in the last five years. So I think all of those things contribute to this disparity. And the more complicated our government makes our world, the more the 1 percent can afford to hire somebody to figure it out and the other guy can’t. But if you simplify government, neither one of them require (ph). And therefore the disparity slows down.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:07 | 4406706 rqb1
rqb1's picture

Term limits

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:34 | 4406016 Mr Beale
Mr Beale's picture

The 1% are the corporate fascist government. 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:16 | 4406159 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  The 1% is not your enemy

WFT!   Who do you think owns all the politicians?   "Those people"?   

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:18 | 4406175 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

WTF elected Obama?  The 1%, or the Obamaphone recipients?  

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:27 | 4406192 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

What about all the leaches living off of Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState?

Who do you think they vote for?

Last time I checked the Big-Gov loving "conservatives" never voted to cut the size of any of the manly socialist scams they are all living off of.

It ain't JUST "those people" leaching off the government.   And it ain't just "those people" who have created all these wonder Big-Gov scams over the last 50+ years.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:03 | 4406329 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If we could save just one Citi or Bank of America exec by swiping that EBT card it will have been worth it.

You do know they make money on every EBT swipe for processing don't you? And the listed food manufacturers love it too, no brown paper wrapper government cheese anymore. Its a pretty nasty web of deception once you start digging into it, there used to be no such thing as a free lunch.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:04 | 4406334 Mr Beale
Mr Beale's picture

Wake up. 

The real question is: Who paid 1 billion to elect Obama? The Answer, the same people that paid Romney 1 Billion to run against him. 

Do you really think Mcain or Romney, bush and obama aren't bought / owned and paid for by the same corporations?

Don't tell me you really thought bishop romney and his magic underwear was going to save the country.

 

really? 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:34 | 4406014 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Class warfare in the USA has usually been totally lopsided, with the upper class being engaged against the lower classes, while the lower classes were brainwashed to not engage. The "middle class" was an illusion, which is now being more and more revealed to have been a delusion, that assisted with developing false class consciousness, so that the mainstream morons would not defend themselves from the upper classes.

The government is primarily based upon its relative ability to monopolize violence, which then can be used to back up laws. The theory of democratic republic is as good as it gets. However, the reality has been that that overwhelming majority of Americans have been reduced to Zombie Sheeple, getting routinely fleeced, and being set up to be slaughtered. Class warfare in the USA has already become a runaway social insanity, with nothing left within the established political processes that can prevent that from getting worse, faster ...

While there are some relative inequalities in people that correspond to some relative merit, which theoretically ought to be proportionately rewards, in ways which would benefit society as whole, IN FACT the most wealthy are so because they were able to corrupt governments, to grant them relative monopolies, while wiping out their competition. Furthermore, the most wealthy have been allowed to successfully hide their wealth, so that their power does not show up in the lists of the most wealthy individuals, but nevertheless is still there, or even more so, to the degree that it can operate covertly.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:56 | 4406092 noless
noless's picture

To really understand the institutionalisation of class warfare i think a discussion revolving around "intersectional" or "third wave" feminism might be beneficial, however this isn't the place for that.

Monopolized violence isn't restricted solely to the overt, to starve a man serves the same purpose.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:08 | 4406021 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Oh goody, another class warfare post.

Tax them at 99% then...and give it to .gov?

Reeeeely?

//////////

Ok, who's the three bozo's who think stripping the successful or the lucky of their wealth and giving it to Washington DC (of all fucking places) is a good idea?

Show yourselves...and then splain that to the welfare mom lottery winner, I'll wait.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:22 | 4406179 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Show yourselves...and then splain that to the welfare mom lottery winner, I'll wait.

You are right,  taking the money and giving it the government would just mean it would go back to the top 10%.

But only about half.   The welfare lottery winners INCLUDE all leaches living off of Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState; not just "those people".

Your obsession with "those people" on welfare ignores everybody else on welfare, including the OldFarts and corporations.  

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:54 | 4406294 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You think I obsess over what the rich or poor have or don't have?

Far from it.

This is my thing in a nutshell, if you are a banker or a .gov worker you're income is directly subsidized by the monetization of debt placed on the national currency for my labor, you are a welfare parasite. If you are an able bodied private citizen, who would rather sit on your fat ass and continue to enable the .gov bureaucracy to steal whats left of my labor (after its above "inflation") because you think you're worth more than what you would earn for your own labor, then obviously your income is directly subsidized by my labor as well, you are also a parasite. 

The middle class is being crushed from all sides dude.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:59 | 4406308 knukles
knukles's picture

XOXOXOXOXO

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:34 | 4406435 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, we are knuk's.

And I think we've had about all we can stand. For all those "poor bastards" wanting guillotines in the streets they better think on it long and hard, the middle class doesn't discriminate about thievery (we have what neither of you have, a sense of right & wrong) when the shit gets real. If you're caught driving in a Lexus with an EBT in your wallet/purse you'll meet the same fate as the CEO's & pols dragged from their burning limo's.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:07 | 4407197 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

So you want to harm 30 million people in your reckless pursuit of 30,000, in pursuit of a plan that won't even succeed...

Ignoring natural and inalienable rights is problematic. Historically, there is rarely intercession before escalation. So what if there were 30 million blacks in the US, and only 30,000 were guilty of murder and other violent crimes against their fellow man? What is your basis for arguing that American blacks shouldn't be liquidated? Ignoring the violent crime aspect, and confining oneself to lawful, if immoral, retribution for economic crime and the economic benefit of a course of action- your odds of finding a guilty black far exceed 1 in 1000, and think of the cost savings of getting rid of the SNAP, SSI, Obamacare & phones, and the rest of the handouts, or how much more free shit YOU could have simply by kicking another group off the FSA Survivor Island- since they WILL divide and conqueror your ass before your plan succeeds.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:15 | 4406379 Mr Beale
Mr Beale's picture

Don't you get it? you have it completely reversed.

.gov taxes US at 99% and gives it all to the one percent.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:30 | 4406590 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Oh I get it alright, the "progressive tax system" is designed to keep people right the fuck where they are.

Only in this type of system can you be penalized for producing more (higher wage tax bracket for you) while the board members get counterfeited stock certificates (digital really) taxed at 15% upon vesting (for them).

No, I got that part.

Its the people down there saying fuck that, keep the current "progressive tax system" (which really screws them from the get-go) and says tax that bastard up there more.

Why can't all income be taxed the same across all income levels...do we really need this many accountants & paper shufflers to hide the theft that is readily apparent?

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:24 | 4407212 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I understand that there are some 200'000 specialized tax accountants and lawyers in the US alone that would find many arguments to explain to you why the US tax code has to be the way it is

after the US, the next most complex tax system of the world is the German one

interestingly, there is also a gov-union element in the involved politics: over 70'000 government employees that defend their turf by concocting every year "more just" taxes. Woe to the German Finance Minister that tries to simplify too much German taxes

only on the German Wikipedia: the Deutsche_Steuer-Gewerkschaft

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:37 | 4406028 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Nobody yet?

OK, I'll bite.

"If you like your 1%, you can keep your 1%."

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:39 | 4406031 noless
noless's picture

I'm gonna open my candy store right across the street from his.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:48 | 4406051 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Zell has long been a piece of $hit.  Zell used Bain-like tactics to strip money out of a company he acquired (Tribune media company), laid off hundreds of experienced professionals, and ignored his obligations to their pensions which he dumped on the federal gov't tab, and lectured the rest of us on why many Americans lack full-time employment back in '10.  Also mocked the unemployment extensions and the work ethic of the unemployed. 

Been a huge backer of Israel and an advocate of aggresssive action against Iran too and no accomodation with Iran.  Been tied to corrupt gov't a couple of times including 2 former Illinois governors among others.  Also has changed his tune now too about healthcare too when he was initially adamant that people shouldn't be given access to healthcare Kind of guy the world will be better off with when he is 6 feet under.  If there was a real pummeling of the 1%, you would see their assets liquidated and nationalized.  Funny but I guess I missed that in the US the past 5 yearsand instead have seen every attempt to massively reinflate the market and greatly increased the paper value of Zell.   1% (really .1% in which Zell belongs) by any objective scorecard have been overwhelmingly been winning by any objective economic measure the past 15-20 years especially the past 5 years and this a$$hole has the temerity to go and mouth off?  Sadly his viewpoint isn't an outlier either. 
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:30 | 4406209 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Math isn't really my thing, but just moving the decimal place isn't that difficult.
-

US population: 317,000,000
10% 31,700,000
1% 3,170,000
.1% 317,000
.01% 31,700
.001% 3,170
.0001% 317
.00001% 32 (rounded)
http://www.census.gov/popclock/

Regardless of how much money he has, he succeeded in Chicago. Neither the good nor the honest thrive in Chicago.

However, he was just as right to cash out of EOP at the time as Kyle Bass was to cash in sub-prime.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:48 | 4406070 grunk
grunk's picture

It's hard to embrace the cry of political dissent from an profiteering insider.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:51 | 4406076 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

What a-hole is supporting what Zell said?  Please show me any objective economic measure that supports his idle and speculative ranting disregarding his completely personal hypocrisy from his own economic dealing the past 10 years?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:58 | 4406100 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I was going to read this and get upset, but then I realized that there's no point. I'm old enough to understand what's going on here.

I do not want what I have not got.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:59 | 4406102 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

I really liked him in the original Conan the Bararian.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:10 | 4406144 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Yeah, golly,  just because the top 10% have got 90% of the wealth and own all the politicians doesn't mean there's anything wrong.

Why don't these worthless peasants all do start-ups and issue IPO's.    All Americans are above average after all.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:15 | 4406371 JR
JR's picture

The leftist redistribute-the-wealth media lumped a family income of $142,300 or more in 2010 in “the top 10 percent of income” and a net worth of $952,500 in “the top 10 percent of wealth” along with Lloyd Blankfein’s multibillion family income and net wealth. In fairness to those families pulling in $142,300, I never use that figure which classifies middle class families as "rich" so Obama can wipe them out to satisfy his mobocracy.

In short, you can’t lump a New York family earning $142,300 with Lloyd Blankfein’s mind-boggling banker income and come out with a meaningful “statistic” -- unless, of course, you deliberately want to destroy America's true middle class - desperately working hard to better themselves - so as an you can level them to the lowest common denominator of the collective.

Before collectivist democracy, if I remember correctly, America was the land of opportunity - for all people, not just the oligarchs.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:24 | 4406184 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

It is of course much more complicated than the 1% vs. the 99%, or the 10% vs the 90%.

If you're looking at the peope who've been making out OK in the last 5 years of so-called "recovery", that's maybe the top 5%, and that's who's mostly been buying the bullshit. Most of these maybe 15 million people are about to get creamed.

If you're looking for who has enough money to game the system and buy political influence, I saw one study that identified the threshold as roughly the top 1/2 of 1%. From 99% to 99.5%, they're living well and getting a growing share of the GDP, but many still depend on a salary or self-employment earnings, and still have to carefully plan for their retirements.  Many of them are about to get creamed too.

If you're asking who shares in control of the Fortune 500 corporations and top local and regional corporations  and participates in the conversations out of which national policy come, one scholar put that at around 30,000-60,000 individuals, about 0.01% or 0.02% They're making out like bandits, but luckily not all are on board with the program of the true inner circle, roughly the billionaires and global bankers, who meet with their global counterparts to divide up the planet. 

Whoever wrote this post seems to lean toward us all rallying around that inner circle against the envious masses. To me that feels like an effort  to get us to take our eyes off the ball! 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:24 | 4406185 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Fuck Sam Zell both for his Bain-like predatory, deconstructive capitalism, his media manipulation, and for the related fact he's part of Israel's 5th Column in the US of A.

And fuck him for his whining.  Class warfare?  Go fuck yourself with that nonsense - it's about the game being rigged and the wealth of {much of} the 1% being based largely on non-productive, even destructive business practices and you fuckin' know it.  It doesn't mean all the ciriticsm is fair, but it's not just envy because you have more money, you ridiculous twat.

 

But fuck Sam Zell most of all because he's just a tremendous cunt.  Just truly one of the largest cunts in the country.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:30 | 4406213 lewietheparrot
lewietheparrot's picture

Well said, Johnny!!

Also, he is an 'activist'-----------wow!!!

Another term of the 99% co-opted by the media

This shit never ends-------------------until it does

I hope, I hope, I hope

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:43 | 4406261 barroter
barroter's picture

It's not the fault of the wealthy.  Remember this: It was the fault of the middle class and poor,  who with all their money, power and connections that caused Lehman Bros and the rest to fail. You must BLAME the un-rich!   The guy who bags your groceries? HE invented CDS's!  HFT? That's the fault of your kid's 3rd grade teacher.  Dark pools and sub pennying? All the fault of the wog who runs the Quickie Mart in your town.

Now, be a good worker bee and shut up, accept what your paid and do the work of two people because productivity makes you wealthy!

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:45 | 4406265 seek
seek's picture

Just so everyone knows, the cut-off for the 1% as of 2010 (the most recent data available) was $369K.

While a lot of money, $369K is not some corporatist elite income level, it's what a well-established doctor, lawyer, or small businessman makes.

The actual 1% -- not the 0.01% -- is getting fucked royally by TPTB.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:49 | 4406272 JR
JR's picture

Carl Icahn’s America is an America where money buys you anything you want…companies, corporations…and people. He is the leverage man, the ruthless trader whose deal making can build companies but destroy lives…and ultimately nations.

Anyone who wants an America with an economic system that enriches people the likes of the  Ichans will end up with everyone else working for one company and one man and it won’t be Icahn. It will be a man the likes of a Stalin who is willing to kill his enemies by the millions, rather than cheat them by the millions.

What’s wrong with a system that builds multibillionaires out of investors and takeover speculators like Carl Icahn, supported and favored by a Federal Reserve central bank whose currency is owned by private bankers who operate in secret to build fortunes for insiders like Carl Icahn whose net worth grew from $7.6 billion in 2004 to $20.3 billion as of September 2013, according to Forbes, while the standards of living for the rest of America plummeted in the same time frame?

Only a Sam Zell could call it Icahn capitalism. It is not capitalism; it is the opposite of free market capitalism; it is a Jewish kleptocracy of private bankers, oligarchs and companies that are outside the zone where they must submit to the law - who have become not only tyrants and America’s slave masters but pirates and purveyors of larceny on a massive scale.

Is there any doubt that the bankers, the Goldman Sachs, and their oligarch friends, the Carl Icahns, have passed beyond the reach of American law?

These are the pro-monopolists, these are the bankers and their collaborators who create the monopolies in order to eliminate competition and gain control of the world’s resources.

This is not capitalism; it is financial tyranny..that eliminates the common man.

As for Icahn, Wikipedia relates…

“Icahn began his career on Wall Street as a stockbroker in 1961. In 1968, he formed Icahn & Co., a securities firm that focused on risk arbitrage and options trading. In 1978, he began taking controlling positions in individual companies.[2] He has taken substantial or controlling positions in various corporations including RJR Nabisco, TWA, Texaco, Phillips Petroleum, Western Union, Gulf & Western, Viacom, Uniroyal, Dan River, Marshall Field's, E-II (Culligan and Samsonite), American Can, USX, Marvel Comics, Revlon, Imclone, Federal-Mogul, Fairmont Hotels, Blockbuster, Kerr-McGee, Time Warner, Motorola, and Herbalife.

Icahn developed a reputation as a ruthless "corporate raider" after his hostile takeover of TWA in 1985.[10] The result of that takeover was Icahn systematically selling TWA's assets to repay the debt he used to purchase the company, which was described as asset stripping. In 1988, Icahn took TWA private, gaining a personal profit of $469 million, and leaving TWA with a debt of $540 million. In 1991, Icahn sold TWA's prized London routes to American Airlines for $445 million.[11]

“Icahn also attempted the grand prize of U.S. Steel, launching a hostile takeover for 89% of the industrial giant for $7 billion ($14.9 billion in 2013) in late 1986. He was finally rebuffed by CEO David Roderick on January 8, 1987.[12] …” And on and on and on…

Professor Werner Sombart, a German economist and sociologist, in his work Die Juden und das Wirtschaftsleben, sums up the economic situation in American in 2014 as he did in Europe  in 1911:

If we want to make clear in one sentence the direction in which the modern political economy is moving we can say: the stock-exchange agents of the banks are becoming an ever-increasing measure the dictators of economic life. All economic happenings are more and more subordinate to the decisions of finance. The question whether a new industrial undertaking is to spring up or an existing one to be developed; whether the owner of a shop or a store is to get the means to extend his business, all these questions are decided in the offices of Banks and Bankers.”

Without economic freedom no other freedom is significant or lasting; if economic freedom can be attained, no other freedom can be withheld.Alfred Jay Nock (paraphrased)

http://books.google.com/books?id=YEdwW78QWj0C&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=Carl+Icahn+net+worth+1995&source=bl&ots=HVAXBzXqUR&sig=TVxMPY5ctFnPKFlC-7u9ez9SZVQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Rs7yUp2_O9XmoATOgoL4DA&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Carl%20Icahn%20net%20worth%201995&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Icahn

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:51 | 4406281 ObungaBoy
ObungaBoy's picture

this guy is arrogant, stupid 1% mother fucker

it will be a day, and this day is not far from now, the crowd will hang such piece of shit right on the street

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:21 | 4406394 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I think he's showing signs of losing his fastball...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:50 | 4406282 ObungaBoy
ObungaBoy's picture
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:56 | 4406304 venturen
venturen's picture

who is his banker and who is his lobbyists...that will tell you the real story

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:59 | 4406309 shutdown
shutdown's picture

Oh, my! The 1% is getting nailed?  Now there's something to cry about. 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:59 | 4406315 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

"THESE ARE NOT THE RICH YOUR LOOKING FOR" - AIPAC

Funny these fuckers have looted every goddamn nickel from the USA and reduced it to a FSA,

Long ago men stood on their own legs.

A few us look around and see the 'google bus' in SF, and know that all those SHILLS are working on BIG-BROTHER and GOOGLE is SKYNET(terminator).

When people started blocking those buses PERKINs' SPOKE-UP  and now Zell its telling that the New Nazi's for the 4th Reich can't stand people tossing the flashlight on them.

*

This is not about the 1% this is about the NSA spy machine and most HW/SW in Snowdens first RELEASE "PRISM" all came from ISRAEL, and this shit is driving them nuts. But harrassing the kids working for google is what really sent AIPAC over the edge.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:01 | 4406321 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

Well on healthcare, folks bring out a new "model" that's simulated to touch every potential transaction and data query a new plan would do.  We are passed the Sebelius and DeParle days of over 3000 pages of text with novices guessing at the IT infrastructures needed...we've seen that already so GOP, where's your model as we are not ready to turn in old glitches for news ones right now..no flying by the seat of our pants...we can't take it anymore.  Besides we might have mass burials for software engineers that end up dying of exhaustion at keyboards:) Nobody looks at the time and complexities here...they just want those algo fairies to fly in and do magic...well I choose math over fairies any day as there's still humans making algorithms, ok:)

It's the Sebelius Syndrome that continues to infect almost all government executives it comes across:)

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/01/republican-national-committee.html

Now just so we can help even up some odds here, I posed this 59 year old book that was recommended reading from a Quant's mother, who's a busy hacker..I love it she gets a book from Mom to read as Mom can't take time away from hacking to answer some questions, and these are not kids:)  It's easy reading and I thought everyone should be able to learn how to lie with statistics...why not..let's even up the score out there (grin).  It's easy reading and being it is so old it's not that complex beyond what a layman can understand either, illustrations are great too.  I linked her blog post too...good reading....If nothing else you can digest it and be alert to some of the old tricks that were used and are still out there today with stats:) 

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-how-to-lie-with-statistics-guid...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:33 | 4406341 mrmister
mrmister's picture

Isn't it just horrible how the little people are complaining. How dare you. How dare you all. You should be happy the big guys were bailed out by your taxes. You know GM, government contractors, banks, Dominos Pizza, Wal-Mart, Berkshire Hathaway, GE, Come on. So what Google, Facebook, and Twitter are all government funded. They shouldn't have to make a profit. You go start your own company and we tax you and you get no bailout. If you can't compete that's your fault.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:14 | 4406367 Seychelles
Seychelles's picture

We can only hope it isn't safe, Zell.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:15 | 4406378 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

FUCK the GOOGLE BUS - An Attack on GOOGLE or their employees is an act of ANTI-SEMITISM

Let's NOT forget that this Perkins->Zell 'Zionist shit their pants', started when the POOR in San-Fran(calif) blocked the google buses.

Now for those that don't know, GOOG  ( rich NSA brats ) have destroyed San-Fran, and while the POOR take PUBLIC bus, the GOOGLE-BRATS are picked up in MONACO MANSION BUSES that cost $1M where ever google BRAT has his own TV, and WIFI and cocaine-tray,and HISO whore sucking his cock all the way to work.

Well these GOOGLE BRATS have destroyed  the ability of the POOR to rent/buy in San-Fran, and everybody hates the GOOGLE-BRATS.

 

Fuck these BUSES should be burned, pillaged and not just blocked.

Perkins of course was the VENTURE CAPITALIST THAT got the NSA to fund the GOOGLE in the first place back in the early 1990's, so PERKINS feels deep pain when  the San-Fran POOR don't get on their knees and SUCK google brat cock.

Zell of course is simply part of the TRIBE, and he too is trying to get all of AIPAC to wake up and say "Any attack on GOOGLE is anti-semitic"

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:46 | 4406465 JR
JR's picture

Here's additional material, satoshi911.

Tom Perkins was right: We do hate the rich. And for good reason | VB Business

January 27, 2014

Dylan Tweney

When Kleiner Perkins cofounder Tom Perkins wrote on Friday that a “progressive Kristallnacht” is coming, reaction was swift and severe.

Rightly so: The 82-year-old billionaire compared himself — and other members of the wealthiest “1 percent” — to Jews in 1930s Germany.

“I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its ’1 percent,’ namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American 1 percent, namely the ‘rich,’” Perkins wrote.

That comparison is both offensive and wrong…

because the rich are not in any significant way being oppressed. Even in San Francisco, where the protests against corporate buses (aka the “Google bus”) have occasionally turned violent — and creepily personal, going so far as to picket individual tech employees’ homes — these represent mere ripples on the surface of a rich person’s otherwise smooth, unruffled life. Perkins is free to come and go as he pleases from his 5,500-square foot penthouse atop San Francisco’s Millennium Tower, or to purchase and sell a 289-foot yacht, or to marry a famous novelist and divorce her, all without any significant interruption. The firm he founded (which was quick to disavow his words, by the way) continues to collect vast funds from investors and make investments in startups without restriction. And, no doubt, Perkins’ wealth continues to grow unfettered by anything more serious than capital gains taxes.

If that’s oppression, sign me up.

But Perkins was right about one thing: People don’t like the rich. “I perceive a rising tide of hatred of the successful 1 percent,” Perkins wrote.

I wonder why that might be? Could it have something to do with the way America’s economy has grown out of recession for the past seven years, but the vast majority of that growth has gone to the wealthy instead of working people? Could it have to do with the fact that the stock market has increased vastly since 2007, but wages have not only stagnated, they’ve declined substantially relative to 1970 levels?

Could it have to do with the alleged collusion between the chief executives of Silicon Valley’s largest companies — Google, Apple, Intel, and Adobe — to keep salaries down by not “poaching” employees from one another, as you’d ordinarily be able to do in a free market?

Could it have to do with the fact that a spate of young, venture-funded entrepreneurs have taken to publishing openly their disgust and distaste for those less fortunate than they are? Or that wealthy tech company founders and VCs have chosen to spend their money on massive, ego-massaging projects with little public benefit, like yachts and America’s Cup races, while complaining about every attempt to put some reasonable reinvestment into the government-funded infrastructures from which they have benefited since day one?

Perkins is right: People don’t like him and his fellow “one percenters.” …

http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/27/tom-perkins-was-right/

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:57 | 4406496 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

The vast majoryity of the wealthy VC types in Sillycon Vally are liberals, big governermnet liberals, but I repeat myself.  I don't begrudge them their money.  I don't even begrudge them the money they spent trying to reduce their taxes.  I fault them for what causes and candidates they use their wealth to advance.  It is mainly used to advance government and liberal policies, not to advance liberty and righteous justice.  

While Bill Gates will be remembered for the medical advances his money funded, how much went to "population control", which too often involves slaying the unborn?  And look at his useful idiot father who trafficed in his son's name to advocate for a higher death tax.  

 

 

 

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:22 | 4406571 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

Liberal means DEATH

Liberal NSA Nazis ... funny Pelosi and Feinstein are the biggest PUMPERS  of NSA freedom to spy. Pelosi & Feinstein get all their money from big SPY corporations. ( Don't forget the DUAL Israel citizenship gold-plated parachute if the USA seas get rough, aka civil-war )

All bay area brat's got rich on spying, e.g. fucking the rest of us in the ass.

But we all know now, that they have invented a reason for spying, the liberals now know, they must identify us non-progressives for extemination.

Funny how 'liberal' used to mean 'freedom' in the time of Thomas Paine, but now Liberal means DEATH

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:26 | 4406585 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

The CALIF liberals that work for big SPY corps are god damn fucking HYPOCRITS.

They should be BURNED to the stake with their private buses.

They are NAZI's funny how PERKINS/ZELL say that an attack on GOOGLE-BUSES is just like a brown-shirt attack, funny that all of a SUDDEN "SKYNET" is not the brown-shirts, but the brown-shirts are the poor on the street begging for scrap.

Funny.

CALIF liberals have always been HYPOCRITS, but now theyr'e RICH hypocrites.

The ISSUE here is if we DEMONIZE the google-brats and it ain't COOL to work their, then the bay-area and the likes of PERKIN/ZELL have big fucking problems.

Being cool is the KEY to social networking, if it went viral to YOUTH that everybody in the INDUSTRY was an asshole these guys PUMPING SPY stock would be in a world of shit.

So yes, they hate people protesting the GOOGLE-BUS.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:51 | 4406800 JR
JR's picture

Exactly. All true, proLiberty.

It’s a story of “money so big that more of Obama’s 2012 campaign haul came from California than from any other state, contributions from the Los Angeles-Long Beach metro area were behind only those from Washington, D.C., and New York City, and the president has drawn ideas and resources and personnel from Hollywood and Silicon Valley.”

It’s the story of the Democracy Alliance, “a secret, invitation-only organization of liberal moneybags that since its formation in 2005 has directed some $500 million in contributions to progressive groups,” with currency speculator George Soros perhaps its most famous member.

“It is growing increasingly difficult for outstanding men to run for public office and to debate important issues because of the smear tactics employed by the vicious groups centering in New York and operating out of Hollywood and Chicago.” –Columnist George E. Sokolsky, October, 11, 1946, Washington Times-Herald

STORY: Jeffrey Katzenberg's Secret Call to Hillary Clinton: Hollywood's 2016 Support Assured 

Several months ago, Jeffrey Katzenberg reached out to Hillary Clinton to assure her that if she runs for president in 2016, he will support her.

Katzenberg is one of Hollywood's premier political kingmakers and one of the Democratic Party's top national fundraisers…

Katzenberg…one of the biggest financial backers of the super PAC Priorities USA Action, which raised a war chest of $79 million and supported Obama in 2012…is crucial not only for his money but also for his ability to mobilize others.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hillary-clinton-2016-jeffrey-katzenberg-651474

And this…

In 2012, George Clooney's high-profile fundraiser for President Barack Obama sold out, raising an estimated $12 million for the president's re-election campaign. According to the Hollywood Reporter, 150 Obama supporters paid $40,000 each to dine with the president at Clooney's Los Angeles home on May 10, 2012.

The dinner was co-hosted by DreamWorks CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg, who has given millions to Obama-supporting super PAC Priorities USA Action.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/obama-george-clooney-fundraiser_n_1476358.html

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:09 | 4406543 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"...while complaining about every attempt to put some reasonable reinvestment into the government-funded infrastructures from which they have benefited since day one?"

 

Government-funded infrastructure is code for tax payer funded union jobs, which jacks up the cost of infrastructure.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:42 | 4406451 butchtrucks
butchtrucks's picture

One of my rules in life is to never listen to anything said by a man with a beard and no moustache.   Anyone who thinks that is a good look is delusional - and therefore anything they say should be totally ignored.   This guy's rantings just confirm the truth of this rule.

Beard with no moustache = garden gnome, or leprauchan, or avante-garde clarinet player, or peadophile.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:58 | 4406511 akak
akak's picture

Or Amish.

(But I suspect that Sam Z. doesn't have much to do with tilling the soil and spreading manure.  Well, on second thought ... )

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:48 | 4406466 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Hey Sam - your home address is on Google Earth, and the addresses of all your spawn are there too.

It won't be envy asshole - it will be justice. And the earth will be better off.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:48 | 4406469 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

Economist Franz Oppenheimer said there were two main ways of gaining wealth, those he called the "economic means", by which he meant free exchange and those he called the "poltiical means", by which he meant lobbying, regulatory capture, cronyism, subsidy, waiver, regulatory relief, tax concessions, etc.

I would add that the bigger that government is the more areas of the free market it will naturally intrude upon, and the more the various private participants will be forced to direct their finite energies away earning money via the economic means and the more those energies will be directed to the political means. We see this in GE, a company that has hundreds of people in its goverment relations and tax compliance department. Recall also that the Enron debacle uncovered a tax department that was being operated as a profit center. Recall where Solyndra made its money, up until the moment it was found to be bankrupt.

When government monopolizes an essential economic function, such as to determine the time value of money, it "socializes" what had previously been a decision of an open market. In other words, instead of people expressing their opinion via their bids in the market, a board of a few experts tells all other participants in the economy what they determine the value will be. This removes the "economic means" and forces people towards the "political means". Thus instead of adjusting our economic circumstances by seeking how to create and innovate, we expend our resources to lobby, agitate, support or oppose the process that determines who sits on the board or commission. Insead of analyzing market forces, we analyze the personal preferences of the bureaucrats and the hints they may have dropped the last time they gave a speech.

Since a committee of experts can never make better decisions than the free market can, this always eventually results in less economic productivity and less liberty. This never ends well.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 00:00 | 4406819 JR
JR's picture

In short, Oppenheimer noted there were only two fundamental ways of acquiring wealth--work and robbery. He declared that government was based on robbery.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:00 | 4406514 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

1% er zell living in a cocoon. he thinks the current diatribe against the 1% is a political invention. Has no clue that the politicians are late to the game. Social media is alive w resentment. It hasn't even gotten ugly yet. OZYmandus statue has not yet fallen.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:07 | 4406525 steelrules
Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:04 | 4406527 moneybots
moneybots's picture

ZELL: "I think that the politics of envy, the politics of class warfare are what has separated America from many parts of the rest of the world. And we have benefited dramatically from not having class warfare, from not having envy."

 

When extremes of wealth and income occur, that all goes out the window.  Especially when that wealth or income is based on corruption in the system.

The uncorrupt rich better take on the corrupt rich.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:14 | 4406727 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Kudos!!!!!

"The uncorrupt rich better take on the corrupt rich."

Amen to that. Sadly. it seems they turn a blind eye or.........get in line to get theirs, therefore become part of the corrupt rich.

 

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:05 | 4406530 magne13
magne13's picture

Not really sure what MR. Zell is talking about, the US government, the FED are the sole reason risk takers and debt slingers like Zell are wealthy, if the FED didnt sell out with TARP and expand their balance sheet 5x the size in 5 years, guys like Zell, Buffet would have lost a shit load of money, they still will anyway.  I get annoyed by rich assholes that think they don't owe their ass to the crony capitalism.  Good luck, what our govt should do is go back to 1960 tax rates and see if the top 1% really start whining.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:41 | 4406632 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

The context of this conversation Zell/Perkins was about the 'google bus', anything else added to this conversation is an attempt to derail the subject at hand.

The tribe is terrified of the attack on those buses, do you all here realize that those are TRIBAL CHILDREN in those buses, those are future tribal leaders of the USA who might be harmed by the un-washed street thugs of San-Fran.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:44 | 4406638 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Plus one...but its crony-socialism.

A real capitalist would slit his wrists before asking/bribing/contributing for a public bailout of his own private malinvestment.

Just a point of order ;-)

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 10:07 | 4407522 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

One must understand that most of these elite scumbags base their self worth on their amassed wealth. They MUST believe that their fortunes are entirely of their own making or their self esteem takes a big hit. This is why they refuse to recognize that for decades they have been unfairly rewarded for their minor efforts. They feel like they earned and deserve their position at the top on the heap of humanity. If they don't maintain their belief that they are, in fact, better than the rest of us, then their entire world and belief system breaks down. Pretty sad really.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:31 | 4406595 baldski
baldski's picture

Who the fuck is Sam Zell and why should I listen to him?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:39 | 4406620 satoshi911
satoshi911's picture

He is a billionaire, and in the NWO today, all billionaires shall have their cock sucked 24/7 by the little people. Like zuckelfuck, when he speaks you listen, or bill gates. It's not enough to be rich, its imperative that those beneath billionaires show some respect.

I suggest we have anti-defammatory felony's for anybody that disses our billionaires.

*

The better question is HOW did ZELL become a BILLIONAIRE? ANother question might be do all Billionaires have dual-Israel citizenship?

In order for me to control the venture capital for NSA spy companys on the west coast and east coast do I have to be a member of the tribe? Those are more meaningful questions

*

Ah you might want to google "BILL GATES IS A ZIONIST"

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:46 | 4406641 Bdelande
Bdelande's picture

Hey Sammy;

 

I'll embrace your free market competition cocktail just as soon as you add a modicum of fairness to the mix.

 

Otherwise, I reserve the right to come after you with an ice pick.................Capiche?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:48 | 4406654 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Best lesson learned from parents - life ain't fucking fair - deal with it. the sooner you accept that the happier and richer you'll be.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:59 | 4406675 Bdelande
Bdelande's picture

What is it that you don't understand about the word "modicum"

 

Or, do you enjoy taking shit up the ass lying down?  

 

Thank God you weren't part of team founding fathers, otherwise we would still be kissing the Queen's ass................

 

Wake up, it's called a Corporate Kleptocracy...............welcome to the machine.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:11 | 4406720 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Lighten up Francis, I'm well aware of the Crony Capitalist Amerika we live in. You jump to a lot of conclusions on very little with which to base it, but whatever. It's a free country......sort of.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 22:45 | 4406649 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Isn't he the guy that used to own the Cubs? He was smart enough to dump them for a profit, so that's a good sign......

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:01 | 4406691 Bdelande
Bdelande's picture

He's a douchebag that ruined both the Cubs and the Chicago Tribune......................do you worship at the alter of Money or what?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:06 | 4406705 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Just saying he was smart enough to do both of those things. He may be a douchebag, in fact I'd be surprised if he wasn't, but man, the Cubs organization and the Tribune suck big time. Chicago would be better off without both IMHO.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:14 | 4406728 linrom
linrom's picture

The problem with so many billionaires is that they are liability to 99%. It's becoming a pocketbook issue: we simply can't afford to pay for their upkeep. This is why it is becoming an issue now.

 

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 00:09 | 4406830 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Sam Zell is a lying scumbag.

He isn't smart, he isn't vigilant, he isn't "successful," he's just got connections. That's it.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 01:14 | 4406961 evernewecon
evernewecon's picture

 

 

 

If memory serves, he said on CNBC
(to my recollection--I don't know
him so I have to add I could be
wrong) America's a republic not a
democracy.

Works for me if the rep's are
selected per democratic process.

Electors are supposedly formalistic.

When politicians are puppets and
they're told that either they or
their masters' operational managers
have to get them "outta' here"
(as in pass risk to the taxpayer)
that's not a republic or democratic.

It's at best plutocracy by self
serving people.

It's privatization.

For outta' here find:

Nelly Vevo Hot In Herre

which I think is the
here misspelled and I would
consider safely parked here
forever but not if it may
in the future no longer
be linked with what only
appears being a licensor.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 03:04 | 4407055 GoldenDonuts
GoldenDonuts's picture

What a fucking jackass.  The .1% have destroyed the western economy so that the wealth can be centralized in their pocession.  The don't give a flying fuck about anyone else that much is clear.  They have not received 1/10 of 1% of the shit and abuse they deserve.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 04:44 | 4407132 spud01
spud01's picture

The one and ONLY answer to the debt problem is to declare it null and void because of FRAUD!  It is fraud because it is mathematically impossible to repay !   It can not be repaid because the interest is never created on the loan and that is fraud !   And fraud voids all !   If we don’t void all out of thin air debt the bankers will own almost EVERYTHING !    And we will be homeless slaves !  They have a license to counterfeit !   Can I counterfeit the money to repay the loan ?  Why not ?   If we even attempt to repay a impossible debt (the national debt) all we do is show our ignorance !   The way to fix this mess is so simple a 3rd grader can figure it out !   We void the fraudulent debt!  and everyone keeps ALL the items they have so called debt on !   And then we start to use a debt free currency and / or gold and silver !  And then we will have a robust economy like never before — OR WE LET THE BANKERS STEAL EVERYTHING !
  I was in about the third grade when the news was talking about the national debt and I asked my dad who do we owe money to and who could possibly be richer than the United States?  and where did they get the money?  And then my dad took a gulp off his beer and said we owe it to our self !   I said that’s the dumbest thing I ever heard of !  that’s like me borrowing from my right pocket and setting fire to the interest and putting the rest in my left pocket !  This was about 1972 !  But Dad was wrong!  We owe it to international Bankers running the biggest Ponzi scheme on earth called The Federal reserve system!  And yes it really is this simple  !  The bankers have a shoe in on ALL loans they make !  All they have to do is stop lending and then start foreclosing on ALL debts!-meaning they now own everything that has a debt by having a license to counterfeit !  So we 1 keep getting fleeced by continuing to pay this fraudulent scheme !  OR 2 we declare ALL out of thin air debt NULL AND VOID because of FRAUD !   And we ALL keep everything we have so called debt on!   MOST people don't get this part Every car, boat, house, machine, tool, farm,ect.  has already been paid for by the fraudulent paper!   So no one looses !   WE sure as hell cant give it to the banksters!   (let them steal it)   AND IT DOESENT MATTER IF YOU WANT TO  REDUCE THE DEBT 90% ITS STILL UNPAYABLE!  So when we void the FRAUD This will be the ultimate FRESH start for everyone !   Share this if you want THE solution to the WORLDS problems!   If not everything will continue to get worse until we have HONEST DEBT FREE MONEY /and GOLD AND SILVER !  And there is plenty of gold and silver!  just Divide the paper money (FRN) by the gold /silver and you have the value of them!  NO MATTER WHAT IT COMES TO per OZ ! Then we would be happy to work for SAY A ONE OZ. SILVER COIN A day ! Because NOW REAL MONEY will buy what  $100 did before the reset!   THINK ABOUT IT!   This is what Scripture calls the jubilee !

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:51 | 4407223 daemon
daemon's picture

" And we have benefited dramatically from not having class warfare, from not having envy. "

I perceive things slightly differently. To me Americans were people like others everywhere else in the world : they followed fashion, they speculated, they were subject to envy like everyone else.

At some time, in the past, there was room enough (particularly after parking the remnants of Indian tribes in reservations) and enough opportunities for lots of people to live comfortably and to feel, delusionnally, different from others. Hence no real development of the concept of class. Time passed and the situation deteriorated slowly but surely, thanks to, among other things but definitely not limited to, banksters. Now that the world seems to be a little bit "overcrowded" relatively to the number of opportunities, US included, Americans, very naturally tend to become aware of how the world really operates, and what a class is. 

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 09:56 | 4407497 aka_ces
aka_ces's picture

Along these lines, the US had the extraordinary fortune for Europe to do a hari-kari in WWII, amputating its economies and forcing so many of its most capable to depart for the US.  The WWII effect was a boon, and is long over.  The US has become much more like the class-riddled societies from which the European arrivals came.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 12:28 | 4407953 reader2010
reader2010's picture

"Acceptance is usually more a matter of fatigue than anything else.” - David Foster Wallace

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!