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Here's What It Looks Like When Your Country's Economy Collapses

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Adam Taggart of Peak Prosperity,

Argentina is a country re-entering crisis territory it knows too well. The country has defaulted on its sovereign debt three times in the past 32 years and looks poised to do so again soon.

Its currency, the peso, devalued by more than 20% in January alone. Inflation is currently running at 25%. Argentina's budget deficit is exploding, and, based on credit default swap rates, the market is placing an 85% chance of a sovereign default within the next five years.

Want to know what it's like living through a currency collapse? Argentina is providing us with a real-time window.

So, we've invited Fernando "FerFAL" Aguirre back onto the program to provide commentary on the events on the ground there. What is life like right now for the average Argentinian?

Aguirre began blogging during the hyperinflationary destruction of Argentina’s economy in 2001 and has since dedicated his professional career to educating the public about his experiences and observations of its lingering aftermath. He is the author of Surviving the Economic Collapse and sees many parallels between the path that led to Argentina's decline and the similar one most countries in the West, including the U.S., are currently on. Our 2011 interview with him "A Case Study in How An Economy Collapses" remains one of Peak Prosperity's most well-regarded.

Chris Martenson:  Okay. Bring us up to date. What is happening in Argentina right now with respect to its currency, the peso?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Well, actually pretty recently, January 22, the peso lost 15% of its value. It has devalued quite a bit. It ended up losing 20% of its value that week, and it has been pretty crazy since then. Inflation has been rampant in some sectors, going up to 100% in food, grocery stores 20%, 30% in some cases. So it has been pretty complicated. Lots of stores don't want to be selling stuff until they get updated prices. Suppliers holding on, waiting to see how things go, which is something that we are familiar with because that happened back in 2001 when everything went down as we know it did.

 

Chris Martenson:  So 100%, 20% inflation; are those yearly numbers?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Those are our numbers in a matter of days. In just one day, for example, cement in Balcarce, one of the towns in Southern Argentina, went up 100% overnight, doubling in price. Grocery stores in Córdoba, even in Buenos Aires, people are talking about increase of prices of 20, 30% just these days. I actually have family in Argentina that are telling me that they go to a hardware store and they aren't even able to buy stuff from there because stores want to hold on and see how prices unfold in the following days.

 

Chris Martenson:  Right. So this is one of those great mysteries of inflation. It is obviously 'flying money', so everyone is trying to get rid of their money. You would think that would actually increase commerce. But if you are on the other end of that transaction, if you happen to be the business owner, you have every incentive to withhold items for as long as possible. So one of the great ironies, I guess, is that even though money is flying around like crazy, goods start to disappear from the shelves. Is that what you are seeing?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Absolutely. Shelves halfway empty. The government is always trying to muscle its way through these kind of problems, just trying to force companies to stock back products and such, but they just keep holding on. For example, gas has gone up 12% these last few days. And there is really nothing they can do about it. If they don't increase prices, companies just are not willing to sell. It is a pretty tricky situation to be in.

 

Chris Martenson:  Are there any sort of price controls going on right now? Has anything been mandated?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  As you know, price controls don't really work. I mean, they tried this before in Argentina. Actually, last year one of the big news stories was that the government was freezing prices on food and certain appliances. It didn't work. Just a few days later those supposedly "frozen" prices were going up. As soon as they officially released them, they would just double in price.

 

Chris Martenson:  Let me ask you this, then: How many people in Argentina actually still have money in Argentine banks in dollars? One of the features in 2001 was that people had money in dollars, in the banks. There was a banking holiday; a couple of weeks later, banks open up; Surprise, you have the same number in your account, only it's pesos, not dollars. It was an effective theft, if I could use that term. Is anybody keeping money in the banks at this point, or how is that working?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Well, first of all, I would like to clarify for people listening: Those banks that did that are the same banks that are found all over the world. They are not like strange South American, Argentinean banks – they are the same banks. If they are willing to steal from people in one place, don't be surprised if they are willing to do it in other places as well.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Fernando Aguirre (36m:42s):

 

 

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Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:45 | 4417634 y3maxx
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...Time to annoint Obama and Moochelle as King and Queen of Argentina, then print EBTs for all its Citizens.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:47 | 4417639 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People can suffer and suffer more until they accept Satoshi into their lives.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:49 | 4417646 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

Totally agree.  Had some Satoshi for lunch with wasabe...awesome!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:51 | 4417651 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Try with some ginger too.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:31 | 4417698 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

There needs to be a world wide, coordinated effort, to burn down & destroy too-big-to-fail and other government subsidized (i.e. Reliant on taxpayer blood) banks (and boot out the politicians that they have bought), before they spread their malignant, free enterprise suffocating, "real"'work & manufacturing suppressing, taxpayer robbing, statist cancerous tumors even further.

If Keynes were alive today, he'd declare Paul Krugman to be, and I quote, "batshit crazy," and sue him for slander/libel.

“By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth."

"As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”

 --J.M. Keynes on inflation in The Economic Consequences of the Peace (p. 235-6)

Inflation/currency debasement, bitches! Even Keynes thought it was EVIL done by kleptocrats.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:07 | 4417845 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Mob destruction is still a couple years away. Won't happen until it all collapses and everyone goes broke at once. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:11 | 4417850 Looney
Looney's picture

Is that Maradona on the pic?

Looney

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:14 | 4417859 CoonT
CoonT's picture

Got 7.62?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:20 | 4418028 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Prefer 7.92 actually.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:35 | 4418243 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

I've got plenty of slightly corrosive 1950's 7.92 (aka 8mm) ,,, bought back when it was $0.08/rd

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 03:44 | 4419160 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

The Argentines had at least some faith in the US dollar during the 2001 crisis.

What will Americans (and those who previously relied on the dollar) turn to when the US dollar itself is the currency in crisis?

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 04:04 | 4419182 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

If the last 5000 years is to be accepted as any indication of future events , I bet Gold and Silver !!!!!!!!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 19:45 | 4421795 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"What will Americans (and those who previously relied on the dollar) turn to when the US dollar itself is the currency in crisis?"~

 

That Supernova is the 3 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle, 4 Liberty Gold Dollar question.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 04:17 | 4419195 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

No, none...

but have thousands of .45 and .30 carbine

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:25 | 4419457 weburke
weburke's picture

plenty of people with weapons, but who do you shot? who are the rulers? They are hidden, and the visible are actors. I suppose the hungry that come your way are the real recipients of those bullets !

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 12:07 | 4419975 limit_less
limit_less's picture

Would a "riot" be called a "riot" in Kentucky?

 

1. Kentucky
Total background checks: 2,542,796
Population: 4,369,356
Background checks per 100,000 residents: 58,196

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/15/states-with-the-most-le...

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:12 | 4418010 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

TIS

May I suggest you instead make an effort to change human nature.

Getting a majority of people to say no to free shit is quite an effort.

I suggest at times like these you are better off assessing the situation an positioning yourself for the inevitible. Politicians and banks respond to the wants and needs of the majority. If your needs are out of line with theirs better trim your sails and set a different course. You cannot fight the tide, only use it.

I'm not saying that cowadrice is right but there are times when you are just not going to win a battle.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:14 | 4418507 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

lvp...do you know if android has introduced its "come in out of the rain" app?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:35 | 4418565 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

lasvegaspersona said: "Politicians and banks respond to the wants and needs of the majority. "

lvp, may I suggest that this is bullshit on an epic scale, and that our current system is structured in such a way whereby as many as 50% of banks, including (or maybe especially) the too-big-to-fail Big 14, only because banks have deeply captured "representatives," legislators & regulators who funnel money subsidies from the productive to the banking & financial'sector?

And seriously, you're TRULY going to argue that politicians "respond to the wants and needs of the majority," rather than paying rhetorical lip service to doing such a thing?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 00:43 | 4418974 Wayne Jett
Wayne Jett's picture

Please take note that Keynes wrote that analysis while he remained a classical economist, teaching classical theory at Cambridge University. Unfortunately for the world, Keynes moved to the dark side by writing The General Theory in 1936 and throwing his support to mercantilism - the system by which the ruling elite leveraged their power and wealth through control of government policies and laws. In return, the ruling elite made Keynes the economist of the century and still use his ideas to loot the capital of the productive people through manipulation of economies, markets and currencies. See my book, The Fruits of Graft.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 13:26 | 4424168 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I enjoy reading your views Wayne. I bought a few extra copies of your book and gave them away, asking only they give them to a friend once they had read it.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:48 | 4418589 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

A guy I know from was recently at some meeting in Argentina about BTC.  I bought some BTC from him.

He said that BTC is catching on in a big way down there.  He knows the country well.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 22:36 | 4418696 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

These 2 bit countries will be a good test for BTC and a learning excercise for the NSA, Treasury, and IRS...  If they can own the backbone then you will pass your btc through their control eventually. 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 01:58 | 4419068 jeebuswept
jeebuswept's picture

The ginger is there as a palate cleanser between different flavours.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 20:27 | 4421938 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Try with some ginger too.

I prefer Maryanne.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:47 | 4418412 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Satoshi,the man,the mouth behind the glory hole.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 22:32 | 4418683 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

So, a shit?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:46 | 4417641 Arius
Arius's picture

bring warren buffet to fix it!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:16 | 4417669 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

Too bad Argentina is not in the EU...

They would be saved!

/sarc

*** cue the inevitable "Fuck the EU!" in 3... 2... 1...

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:04 | 4417692 Landrew
Landrew's picture

I would have to say, that is one of the dumbest comments ever written here. What a waste of time, there was very important information written in that article. Having friends living in Argentina now, it isn't funny that AMERICAN banks and the FED are doing this to the citizens.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:16 | 4417720 Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

Right. This is Americas fault. This disaster in Argentina has nothing to do with that incompetent cunt Kirchner and her irresponsible “victorious decade” policies. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:38 | 4417771 yatikto
yatikto's picture

who's fault is it?

government living beyond its means ends up screwing everyone in the end.

but the value of everything is out of whack. and that is america's fault.

 

 

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:50 | 4417798 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

For Christ's sake!!! Stop being intellectually lazy. The 2008 depression didn't start because the government was living beyond its means.

My god man! How will anything get better if we have no idea why we are here?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:05 | 4418160 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

People were making stupid bets and investments tied to all these housing loans, based on the idea that the government would "back it all up" if something should go wrong, which was inevitable since they were giving home loans for 250k to guys that work on a maccaroni & cheese production line making 13/hr. So yeah, in a sense, it was goverment living beyond its means and encouraging these stupid loans in the first place.

 

Do I BLAME the government for this mess? No, absolutely not. I blame everyone for allowing governments and banks to control the issuance of the currency in the first place.

 

If you allow the fox in the hen house and shit goes wrong........it's your own fucking fault.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:08 | 4418180 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

It wasn't the government that sold those loans you fucker

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:09 | 4418366 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Leaf - No it want government selling those loans but it is was the government that deregulated the market to enable them.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:37 | 4419498 artless
artless's picture

@ Raging Debate

"No it want government selling those loans but it is was the government that deregulated the market to enable them"

Wrong, Wrong., Wrong., Wrong., Wrong., Wrong. ph and WRONG.

Deregulation had nothing to do with any of this shit. It was the government inetrvention (call it regulation, GSE, whatever) that CAUSED the whole damn mess. Ever heard of Fannir? Freddie? FHA? HUD? How about the previous bailouts of Long Term? How about that whole 15 year nightmare called FDR whoes policies continue to wreak havoc on the whole financial and banking structure of our lovely nea-fascist police/bank state.

If financial institutions were left out to dry if and when they made poor investments and choices (LIKE FINANCING THE US FEDGOV and it's warfare/welfare state) then the risk associated with such activity would naturally impact thed decisions.

As it is criminla enitties like The JP Morgue, Goldman, etc "borrow" from the money printer at large at ZIRP then loan it abck to WASH DC at 3% to FUND THE PARASITE FREE SHIT ARMY of Soc Sec, Medicare, Welfare and of course the continued mass murder and warmongering for which we so worship those in the military.

Yeah, you're right. It's just deregulation. Theat $17 trillion in DEBT is irrelevant. Thae FED has NOTHING to do ith it. TARP, The Porkulus Bill of 2009 for another cool Trillion-nope, nothing to do with it. The UNFUNDED liabilities of just our welfare state of Soc Sec, Medicare, etc of nearly $200 Trillion? Nope, that has nothing to do with it either. And the billions upon billions of shit mortages bought up by Fannie, Freddie (Ummm, those guys would be your wonderful GOVERNMENT) and bundles into bigger pieces of shit then sold as AAA rated securities on the market (and in to some pension funds, overseas funds, etc) while guys like CEO FRanklin Raines made huge bonuses directly tied to that activity-NOPE nothing ot do with it.

Yeah, it was all Glass Steagal and the lack of SEC funding. Not that those guys were watching porn 24/7 or that the agency's budget increased something like 150% just under Shrub's two terms. Nope you can ignore that as well.

You migh try reading every once in a while. Or at least read something other than the state controlled mouth piece of propaganda the New York Times.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:06 | 4418498 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Correct, but they enabled it. If banks had to rely on account holders deposits to make loans, like it would be in any correctly run universe, the loans would never have been made in the first place.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:39 | 4418257 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

I wasn't alive 101 years ago when the gov't got into bed with the banksters... and I certainly wasn't on the banking comittee anytime in the last 30 years... it ain't my fault silverfish ,,, I've been on team "kick the bastards out and send them to prison" for a VERY long time.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:17 | 4418520 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Right, we weren't there when it all got started, but we're all to blame for allowing it to continue further. If we had any balls (which we don't) we'd all be out in en masse, physically monkey hammering these pricks with any tools available to us. I include myself in the "we". I haven't done anything to stop it either.

 

I just we'll all just keep on taking it.....right up until the moment we don't anmore.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 00:17 | 4418923 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Are you buying Physical Gold and Silver?

Are you refusing to enter into any Debt Obligations?

Have you minimized your purchasing habits to bare essentials?

Do you refuse to play the Financial Markets?

Have you withdrawn most of your Capital away from the Banks?

Have you closed your business?

Have you minimized your income so that you do not pay or owe Taxes?

Have you shreded your Credit Cards?

Have you minimized purchases from Multinational Corporations?

Have you sold your Government Bonds?

Have you sold your House so that you do not pay Property Taxes?

 

WHO IS WE?

 

People can cause the end, a Financial Collapse with the subsequent end of the Ponzi, through OPTING OUT and REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE.

 

This needs not be violent.

 

Far too many seek to GAIN as they have GREED.

 

Do you apply PRINCIPLES above that of PROFITS?

 

Or do you sell your soul to the devil?

 

It is YOUR CHOICE.

 

As for me I OPT OUT as much as I can. Anything else is HYPOCRISY.

 

My bet is that you will not as you enjoy your COMPLICITY into the Fraud. My wager is that what I will read is a slew of justifications for bad behavior.

 

You need not justify yourself to me. Who am I ? But can you lie to yourself?

 

This IS NOT A STATEMENT OF BLAME. If you take it in that way then YOU OWN IT.

 

You are responsible for YOUR OWN EMOTIONS.

 

THIS IS A STATEMENT OF THE FACTS.

 

Please downvote the inconvenient truth.

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 02:49 | 4419114 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

civil. disobedience.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 05:17 | 4419235 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

"Closing your business"?

Nope, cannot agree with that one.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 05:54 | 4419248 CultiVader
CultiVader's picture

He meant go black market

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:28 | 4419461 Free Wary
Free Wary's picture

Or he could mean to go galt, you know, moving your business to a decent place. Let me ask, if you are paying 60% of your income to various taxing authorities- whose business is it anyway? If the taxing authorities claim over half the profit- let them take the care and risk for operating the business.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 14:20 | 4420397 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Project Mayhem anyone?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 04:12 | 4419190 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

No downvote , I am with you 100% on your conclusion as I have come to the same. Starve the beast if you can not just kill it !!!!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:47 | 4419381 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Well said Tall Tom!  Great Post!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:22 | 4419448 Free Wary
Free Wary's picture

Yes to many things you said. I used to be deep in debt and very much a slave of the system.  I have cleared over 150k of my debts in the past two years. I am sleeping so much better at night and every time I pay off another debt- less of my productive energy is getting siphoned off to the banks. Soon I will be 100% debt free then I'm going to save up and buy a farm with no mortgage.

I would also add to your suggestions to teach children. I have helped my own kids and a few kids at my church learn about being self-sufficient, and am also working on building up the local community where I live.

Also, home canning food is another great idea. Learn about your food, how to store and rotate it. Buy 200lbs at a time direct from growers and learn to preserve it. Use a pressure canner to preserve soup.

By the way I am not a conspiracy, feaful person living in a cave.  I live in the middle of a bustling city and take my kids to local attractions and events almost every Saturday. I think the US economy will keep sputtering along for another year or two at least, perhaps even another 20 years, but I have many contingency plans in place if it doesn't- flexibility.

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:48 | 4419544 artless
artless's picture

Are you buying Physical Gold and Silver? wish I could buy more too broke

Are you refusing to enter into any Debt Obligations? buy a house or car? are you insane? but private debt is fine

Have you minimized your purchasing habits to bare essentials? YES

Do you refuse to play the Financial Markets? YES

Have you withdrawn most of your Capital away from the Banks? YES

Have you closed your business? Do Not have a business that makes any $

Have you minimized your income so that you do not pay or owe Taxes? YES. Unlike the late comers to the party I realized this shit a long, long time ago and went "on strike" in the early 90's-welcome to the show

Have you shreded your Credit Cards? NO. Fuck the banks and use their policies against them. 0% interest? Why thank you Mr. Dimon I think I'll take you up on that. The JP Morgue has lost money having me as a client

Have you minimized purchases from Multinational Corporations? Multinationals are not necessarily the problem. WHOLE FOODS anyone? I'll walk over dead children to purchase food from John Mackey. And I purposely go to Exxon stations. But buy a lightbulb from GE? NO FUCKING WAY. By a car made by GM? NEVER.

Have you sold your Government Bonds? What evil, piece of shit would ever buy or own a gov bond of The United States? You might as well just load the fucking gun, hand it to the soldier and TELL him to shoot the baby in some far away land populated by mostly harmless, poor, brown-skinned people.

Have you sold your House so that you do not pay Property Taxes? I do not own nor have not ever "owned" a house.

 

We all do what we gotta do.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:15 | 4418378 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Well at least the SEC was on top of Madoff. And NY Fed Chair was right on top of the NY banks. ( Timmah Geithner ). And Greenspan was wstching the punvh bowl. And of course FREDDY and FANNIE were on top of those mortgages.

Yup. Nothing at all, nothing at all.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 22:41 | 4418709 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It may be even deeper than you are thinking.  Why do people behave as they do and make the choices they make?  Life is so easy now there is no meaning or purpose for most.  Our species seems to relish things (luxury and ease) that end up destroying us (lazy and apathetic).  Perhaps the Garden of Eden is a recurring theme for the very few left after the last collapse.

LOL

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:00 | 4418340 RaiZH
RaiZH's picture

It all really comes down to someone else controlling our money and paper money being backed by nothing of intrinsic value. 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:24 | 4419348 Marge N Call
Marge N Call's picture

Read a history book dude, Argentina had 80% the GDP of the US in the 1900s, and has been screwing up it's finances and screwing its citizens since then. Argentina was on a path to be one of the dominant economies of the 20th century, and it's story of sovereign default and a long series of government coups is pretty famous and well-documented.

The US deserves a lot of blame for a lot of things, but sorry, Argentina fucked themselves up, and continue to fuck themselves up with or without any help from the US.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:51 | 4419388 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Juan Peron = Dictator...according to the usual suspects.

 

Perón's bid for economic independence was further complicated by a number of inherited external factors. Great Britain owed Argentina over 150 million pounds Sterling (nearly US$450 million) from agricultural exports to that nation during the war. This debt was mostly in the form of Argentine Central Bank reserves which, per the 1933 Roca-Runciman Treaty, were deposited in the Bank of England. The money was useless to the Argentine government, because the treaty allowed Bank of England to hold the funds in trust, something British planners could not compromise on as a result of that country's debts accrued under the Lend-Lease Act.[11]

 

As usual the stench of international banksters is all over another country's historical problems.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:45 | 4417781 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Landrew didn't blame Americans, he blamed American banks and the FED. On that score Landrew is absolutely correct. I would quibble with the term American banks because really all these zombie financial institutions are global in scale. Yes, their parasitic motives reach worldwide, including Argentina. Has your head been up your ass for the last 40 years?

How in the world can you rag the FED and TBTFB for the US economic nightmare, yet not the world's? It makes no economic sense.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:55 | 4417807 Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

I disagree. Both Kirchners set this massive fail up with thier Peron style governance. While banks had some role to play, the majority of the misery in Argentina can be layed at the feet of their leadership for the last 10 years.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:04 | 4417839 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

I firmly believe that the financialization of the world economy is why we are all in terrible economic shape. The FED has played a huge roll in this process.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:20 | 4417867 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

Government is why "we" are in this shape. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:30 | 4417894 Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

Under your simplistic rubric, all countries should be equally miserable because of Fed meddling. That isn't true. It also discounts the terrible Marxist policies radical leaders like Kirchner and Maduro are instituting that are destroying any hint of a free market economy.

You give too much credit to the Fed and not enough to genuinely rotten and totalitarian leadership in these countries.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:57 | 4417965 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Fractional reserve and debt based 'money' are the problem - FOR EVERYONE.

The .01% are OK for now, but there will be a reckoning (soon, I hope).

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:26 | 4417881 yatikto
yatikto's picture

you blame the addict, I blame the dealer.. that's all.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:56 | 4417805 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Argentina depended on oil royalty revenues to balance their budget.

It's running dry. 

End of story.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:33 | 4418557 machineh
machineh's picture

Then they seized YPF from Repsol.

End of oil revenues.

What, you thought gov't workers were gonna find oil? 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:31 | 4418420 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Didn't we repeal Glass-Steagal and let the big banks sell trash to the world ?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:28 | 4418056 The Duke of New...
The Duke of New York A No.1's picture

Well, hopefully you've been telling your friends in Argentina for the past few years to follow Ron Paul's example/advice to STACK METAL.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 03:07 | 4419134 Mister Kitty
Mister Kitty's picture

America isn't going to suffer a currency collapse.  Our fate is more like Japan's.  Endless deflationary recession.  Bitches.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:40 | 4419237 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Yeah, right.

Wal-Mart crowds look just like the Japanese, as slim, as educated, as polite.

Yes, the fate of Wal-Mart Nation will surely mirror the Japanese.

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:46 | 4417642 Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

Its...coming 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:48 | 4417649 J Pancreas
J Pancreas's picture

Are there still openings for new investors in Doug Casey's compound in one of the poorest areas of Argentina?! OLÉ!!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:37 | 4418564 machineh
machineh's picture

Cafayate isn't that badly off. It's very beautiful countryside, with canyons downriver that resemble Arizona and Utah, and snow-covered peaks off to the west.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:53 | 4417654 JustPrintMoreDuh
JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

At least the banksters and their political puppets are still living on the the hog thou ... 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:53 | 4417659 seek
seek's picture

I'm still trying to imagine the US the week after bank bail-ins. It's hard to wrap your head around.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:59 | 4417667 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

It will be nice to stay home full time to tend to my gardens and guns.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:08 | 4417848 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Exactly.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:03 | 4418485 arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture

do you need a hand in your garden?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:10 | 4418504 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Always!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:36 | 4418250 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Indeed. Good thought experiment.

I am terrified that it would be "business as usual."

Until supply chains are disrupted, I don't think there is a chance of any real change.

And even then, if one gets used to it (the boiling frog metaphor we hear so often), one may miss what it all means because they are trying hard to make the details of their lives work, hanging on to what was, any little way they can.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 01:46 | 4419051 seek
seek's picture

If it's a limited bail-in, I think it will be business as usual...until the loss of savings/capital works its way through the pipeline.

You know how there are stories here all the time about how the wealthy segments of the economy (mercedes, porsche sales, etc) are doing just great -- that's probably the top 10% or so that are driving things, not the top 0.1%. These are the people that will be utterly fucked by bail-ins, since they actually have savings in the banking system and not offshore in tax havens.

So my though experiment goes that they harp on it as being the "rich paying their fair share," etc initially and it's business as usual and then suddenly the top segments of the economy just freakin' implode 2-3 months later, followed by more mass layoffs etc. Still no revolt but definitely paving the way for riots if anything else gets cut.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 05:10 | 4419226 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

The group that's in the top 10%-top 0.5% - those with a net worth of up to a few million, six figure earnings - are getting by better than most.  HOWEVER most in this group are still wage slaves working 60 hours + a week or maybe business owners (your local insurance agent, drycleaner, store owner).  They DON'T have any way to really shelter their savings.  The wages slaves are an open book - everything they have is visible to the IRS.   Cash business operators are better off BUT are already in the sights of government that doesn't like cash transactions out of its sight.  This group will get SLAMMED by any 'bail-in' - but ironically, there's not a huge amount of blood to be gotten out of this group.  

Most of the assets held by the top 10% are held by the top 1% and most of the assets of the top 1% are held by the top 0.1%   The very top - say  0.5% and above - are the ones flush with cash and assets - and are adept at sheltering them.  They're also the 'connected' ones - able to make sure THEY won't get hurt by any government action.  The real wealth resides with the people that pull the strings and write the rules.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:01 | 4417664 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Tylers, would welcome a report on Argentina's gold reserves. They are meant to be the safe haven and reserve asset of last resort during a currency crisis. So where are they and are they being mobilized? Methinks not, but what do you think?

Where are the 61.74 tonnes of gold reserves?
In the Central Bank's Buenos Aires vaults?
Or in LBMA bullion bank rolling gold deposits which will hardly come back?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:05 | 4417694 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Unsurprisingly, mainstream journalists don't have the savvy or the courage to ask these questions. ZH does.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:21 | 4417732 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

There is no such thing as "mainstream journalists" anymore...

They're all just Obama Admin sycophant lapdogs now.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:43 | 4417776 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I see a hellfire missile fired from an Obama drone knocking on your door any time now.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:34 | 4418426 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Yeah and then the man known as the finger is going to pick you up,check to make sure you're not butt smuggling and throw you in a Fema camp.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:51 | 4417792 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

Agreed on the first point - but the media is guilty of seeking access over making anyone uncomfortable by asking tough questions with any regime.

Q: Who thought Colbert's rant at the press during the Bush II 'roast' was completely not funny? A: The White House press corp. Colbert skewered the press corp for being a bunch of sychophants. The press _is_ worse during a democratic regime, but they do the same ass-licking for both parties.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 00:44 | 4418972 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

There is this law. It is called Freedom of the Press.

 

It is curious that the Press Agencies do not SUE FOR RELIEF under the First Amendment when a Reporter is "expelled" from the Press Corps for asking inconvenient questions.

 

But when the same Corporations whom own the media are the same Coroporations that fund Presidential Elections one may see that it is the Corporations are the ones that will fire the Brown Nose who chooses to clean his nose..

 

Maybe it is not the White House or Congressmen whom are acting in restricting access??? Is that a chance?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:35 | 4417758 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

TBTF will provide 'extra time' in exchange for some physical gold. So Comex will have another sunrise. But in the end, Argentina has to acknowledge it didn't just sold her body, but also her soul.

Gold is never mentioned when countries die. My guess is that the leaders get a phonecall.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:34 | 4417969 Freegold
Freegold's picture

Argentina, Greece or any other country in trouble will not mobilize their gold untill it´s time for true price discovery, aka free from paper-imaginary gold. Some gold owned by persons or countries will be lost in the process. If "some one else" hold it for you, you will probably never get it back.

Hold it or risk losing it! +50K/ounce easy :) Gold will start to flow at it´s new price.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:40 | 4418262 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Golly Gosh Mr. Cacete de Ouro,

That thing got burned along with all our other records of all our shady dealings. We don't keep anything on line, it was all in that there high security fire resistant warehouse.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:55 | 4417665 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I wonder if they've got tourism commercials going in China.  I wonder why there aren't more here.  Argentina is cheap, and despite its woes, safe and full of great restaurants. 

If you like hunting, or just great steak and great wine at absurdly cheap prices, there's no better place than Patagonia.

 

 

And if you're willing to pay a little extra, they'll allow you to hunt the world's most dangerous game -

Man.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:37 | 4417908 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

interesting post.. are you sure you have to pay extra?

more than cheap steak and wine in
Patagonia, you forgot the lamb, the fishing , all sorts of extreme sports... and other sorts of hunting, dollar hungry Argentinian babes,.

I love my crisis!!!,,

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:58 | 4417666 max2205
max2205's picture

Wonder how many cry every day here in private in this country....more than the population of Venezuela and Argentina?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:46 | 4418279 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

That's what the bread and circuses are for. And the pharmaceuticals. And the Booze. And the consumerism. 

iLife: Manufactured in America, exported to the world.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 02:42 | 4419104 Graph
Graph's picture

I even wonder more how many of them were unshaken "We are #1" banner carriers....until +_ October 2008?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 05:19 | 4419236 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

An astounding number of them STILL ARE 'U S A.... NUMBER ONE!' cheerleaders, unable or unwilling to believe anything else.   They have signed on to the 'War on Terror' and are willing to blame the rest of the world for all that's wrong in America, failing to see that their own leaders (doesn't matter which political party) have sold them out.   

They're more knowledgeable about NFL standings or NASCAR than the economy.  They're easily manipulated - like Nixon's 'Silent Majority', willing to believe in corrupt leaders and blame those that question what's happening.  'Dirty Hippies'... OWS... anyone that dares question the insanity is wrong.

The truth is too painful to even contemplate for these people.  It means that 'doing the right thing... working hard... following the American Dream' DOESN'T work - that they're actually getting screwed by believing all that.  So they blame the 'poor' and 'foreigners' - maybe the occasional 'politician' (one not on 'their' team), unable and unwilling to see the changes that have occurred.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:01 | 4417676 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Since you got rid of the Argentine Banks in 2001 now the real crooks have moved in. I am very sorry to hear that...wish you the best.  Advice...gold gold gold.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:42 | 4417778 yatikto
yatikto's picture

gold for what??  to buy dollars?

hate to get on a tangent but a gold backed currency in this manipulated market is a suicide.

 

best advice.  DON'T GET IN DEBT!!!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:00 | 4417819 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The gold nazis on ZH corrupt every thread.

When a country is dying like this, people care about food.  When crime starts they care about getting the hell away, not sitting with guns waiting for sleep to overtake them.

The last thing they care about is gold, and for very good reason.  It's not important.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:45 | 4417922 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"The last thing they care about is gold, and for very good reason.  It's not important."

yeah right...until it is AGAIN....from "When Money Dies"....

"The private tradesman already refuses to sell his precious wares for money and demands something of real value in exchange. The wife of a doctor whom I know recently exchanged her beautiful piano for a sack of wheat flour. I, too, have exchanged my husband's gold watch for four sacks of potatoes, which will at all events carry us through the winter …"

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:02 | 4418338 Matt
Matt's picture

You have to stay alive and well until after the reset for the gold to matter. In this case, since the system is now global, you have to keep going until the whole world resets before that gold is going to find fair value. That could take years, decades, even centuries.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 01:10 | 4419018 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

You have to stay alive and well until after the reset for the gold to matter.

 

I do not believe that will be the case. It was not the case in the Weimar Republic as Kaiser Sousa pointed out with his quote for the HISTORICAL EPIC and CLASSIC, "When Money Dies". (I strongly suggest that YOU READ the book.)

 

Likewise Gold and Silver will be of PRIMARY IMPORTANCE in order to stay "alive and well" during the time of crisis which PRECEDES the reset.

 

The World Currency Collapse will be far more devastating than what happened in the 1920s Weimar Republic of Germany.

 

And if it does take centuries, as YOU SUGGESTED, then you had better have enough Gold, or a method of getting it, to see you through.

 

Fair Value??? What will Fair Value be measured in?

 

Certainly NOT US DOLLARS.

 

Hopefully EVERYONE WILL SUFFER SO MUCH as to they will NEVER TRUST ANOTHER GOVERNMENT OR PAPER PROMISE AS LONG AS THEY SHALL SO LIVE.

 

Centuries??? I hope. 

 

Almighty Father God.

 

You are the Greatest and most Exalted af all that Lives. Your heavenly throne sits above the Heavens. You are most wise.

 

Thank you that you will bring us to our knees for our Frauds which have killed millions of your children. Thank you that their cries are heard. Thank you that You will humble us and teach us the lesson to never again place our trust and confidence in Government, that our Faith shall be placed in You.. Thank you for these troubled times so that we seek Your face, Your Grace, and Your forgiveness.

 

Forgive our sins but do NOT lighten our burdens lest we forget.

 

In Christ Jesus Name I thank You Father God, the most Just and most Merciful.

Amen (So be it.)

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:48 | 4417928 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@CrashisOptimistic

We saw what a real crisis did in the Philippines typhoon disaster. They weren't looting the local bank to pry gold out of the deposit boxes, nor were there any food brokers accepting gold coins for payment.

Food and clean water became more valuable than gold, and it was the rice warehouses that got broken into, the supplies of water mobbed, and the rest left to scrape and get by with no "bunkered" individual telling their story of how they saved the day with their "stacks".

But on ZH, gold is king, bragging about how much you've gotten stored the currency, and specious claims of how gold saves everyone the running gag.

Funny thing though, ever wonder why the government allows gold coin dealers to exist? If it was truly as disruptive and powerful as the goldbugs insist it is, then why make it easy to acquire?

Its okay, I won't press the point further, I'm upsetting all the pod-dwellers plugged into the power station.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:05 | 4417978 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Say what you like about Au, it's still a better bet than paper - unless you are desperate enough to burn FRNs for their calorific value.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:31 | 4418061 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

whenever u like feel free to present any other form of money, in spite all the socio/economic uphevel that has taken place over the last 5000 years, that has stood the test of time please do...

yeah, Gold is so easy to get if u just happen to have 1300 Federal Reserve Notes lying around to purchase what would have only taken 20 back in 1933.......

 

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:32 | 4418060 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

EM

In a moment of crisis you are correct. You must have the essentials.

What about the next week?

It is good to plan for both.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 01:24 | 4419032 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Funny thing though, ever wonder why the government allows gold coin dealers to exist?

 

Government is not powerful enough to stop the Gold Trade, Exponere Mendacies.

 

Currently India has banned imports. Gold smuggling is rampant.

 

There is an ENTIRE PLANET THAT VALUES GOLD.

 

In fact I hope that they try to close down the Gold Trade.

 

I like the idea of a Black Market in Gold.

 

Dawgs cannot smell it. It is easy to cast into metal objects and painted. It is so easily smuggled. Yeah. Bring it on.

 

Fuck the US Goobernment.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 14:25 | 4420423 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

1) Gold is King

2) Silver is Queen 

3) Guns are the Knights.

4) Food is the Bishops

5) Water processing : Rooks 

6) People are Pawns.   

In a time of crisis 1-5 will buy plenty of 6.   Any proper planner will have all six to leverage.   

 

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:57 | 4418326 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Yes food and water are what keeps you alive. A merchant that is selling food will take gold or silver as payment before fiat any day of the week. That is the point, if things get really scarce, no money will help you.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:26 | 4418410 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"gold for what??  to buy dollars?..."

this statement proves that you dont get it......

learn and then consider the following term...PURCHASING POWER!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:00 | 4417677 pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

I find interesting is that when governments go (economically) crazy, even though they are quite clearly working in their own (very short term) interest, the only way to avoid being road kill is a considerable degree of civil disobedience. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:06 | 4417686 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

Argentinian Peso = US Dollar

Misguided Argentinians ditching pesos for dollars = the learned ditching dollars for real money/Gold & Silver

tax on peso conversion to dollars = real inflation in US @ 9%

2001 devaluation of pesos/capital controls = coming to the US/MYra

there r only 2 forms of real Money...Physical Gold & Silver

"Jorge Lischetti applied to purchase dollars from the government the day Argentina eased controls. He stashed the $300 he was allowed to buy in January in his Buenos Aires home and did the same on the first day of February.

Argentines like Lischetti, a 24-year-old legal adviser, are contributing to a drop in the country’s international reserves by refusing to deposit the dollars they purchase in local banks. More than 12 years after Argentina restricted withdrawals and converted dollar savings into pesos amid an economic crisis that led to a $95 billion default, 91 percent of those who qualify to buy foreign currency from the government are paying a 20 percent surcharge to keep the cash.

“History in Argentina is scary enough to make you want to keep your money out of the bank,” Lischetti said in an interview in the capital.

The loosening of currency controls after Fernandez banned most dollar purchases in October 2011 also means Argentines are able to turn a quick 30 percent profit in pesos by trading the dollars in the illegal currency market, according to Olaiz.

The peso trades at 7.8409 per dollar in the official market and at about 12.13 per dollar on the streets of Buenos Aires. The implied rate for purchasing dollars is about 9.41 pesos after accounting for the tax to keep the money in cash.

Five black-market traders interviewed on Florida street in downtown Buenos Aires say they haven’t seen any signs customers are doing that.

“Everything’s pretty much the same since the measure,” said Alejandro Gomez, 34, an international commerce student who’s been a trader in the black market for six months. “Argentines are probably waiting for a higher rate or taking the dollars for savings. If you’re earning enough to qualify to buy, why would you want pesos? They’re not worth anything.”

Cabinet Chief Jorge Capitanich on Jan. 26 criticized savers who hoard dollars.

“It’s very selfish to stash money under the mattress when you could buy a government security,” he said in an interview on the C5N television network.

Interest Rates

In the latest effort to prop up reserves and attract investors to peso assets, policy makers raised interest rates and pledged the peso will stabilize at around 8 per dollar.

Still, the interest rates don’t compensate for estimated 28 percent inflation and non-deliverable forwards show traders betting the peso will weaken to 11.7 per dollar over the next year.

“People don’t know if we’re in the middle of a crisis and if these dollars will be worth a lot more in the future or there will be another devaluation,” Olaiz said. “Argentines are probably waiting for a higher rate or taking the dollars for savings. If you’re earning enough to qualify to buy, why would you want pesos? They’re not worth anything.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-02-06/argentines-drain-banks-of-do...

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:05 | 4417693 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Just turn up the Radio GaGa then!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:18 | 4417726 Tinky
Tinky's picture

 

"In the economic sphere an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them.

"There is only one difference between a bad economist and a good one: the bad economist confines himself to the visible effect; the good economist takes into account both the effect that can be seen and those effects that must be foreseen.

"Yet this difference is tremendous; for it almost always happens that when the immediate consequence is favorable, the later consequences are disastrous, and vice versa. Whence it follows that the bad economist pursues a small present good that will be followed by a great evil to come, while the good economist pursues a great good to come, at the risk of a small present evil."

– From an essay by Frédéric Bastiat in 1850, "That Which Is Seen and That Which Is Unseen"

h/t John Mauldin

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:21 | 4417738 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Bacon.  Hot crispy bacon man.  It cures everything.  Including fiat ponzi schemes.

Use only as directed.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:36 | 4418074 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I can personally attest to the effectiveness of Yoder's

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/canned_meat_canned_chicken_canned_turke...

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 05:04 | 4417764 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

This is a long-term Obamanomics case study.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:37 | 4417769 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Tough week in Buenos Aires......thunderstorms (appropriately called "tormentas" here) have dumped about 10 inches of rain and more to come thru Thursday.

Peso ARS was firm against the dollar US last week, crisis probably over for now, sorry rubberneckers.  I'll change some more money tomorrow while I can still get close to 12.

As long as the price of soy holds....Argentina can muddle through for longer than most can imagine.

 

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:11 | 4417854 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

MonSatan Soy.

Cause of their 1st collapse.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 16:31 | 4420939 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Peso ARS up 5% in the paralelo market today..... http://www-dolarblue.net

i exchanged this morning......the momentum is currently with the Peso.

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:44 | 4417782 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I wonder if any of those shop keepers would reject payment in gold?

Or do people still fail to understand what gold and silver are about?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:55 | 4417794 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-27/humiliating-viral-youtube-inter...

Zero hedge  posted this last April

A Greek journalist asked the Economic minister of Argentina the question what is the inflation rate?

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 22:17 | 4418651 HerrDoktor
HerrDoktor's picture

Quiero me voy!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 23:31 | 4418831 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Ven!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:52 | 4417803 yatikto
yatikto's picture

as long as emerging markets keep borrowing, they will always experience this instability.

only way to win this is with limited or no bond auctions, and demant for use of native currency in transactions.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:06 | 4417843 no2foreclosures
no2foreclosures's picture

Is it because the Tylers enjoy sucking Paul Singer's cock so much that Argentina always get trashed in Zerohedge?

You know, the same Paul Singer who is the Vulture Capitalist in Chief of Elliot Associates Inc. and Elliott Management Corporation, who is trying to collect on $1.3 billion that he paid pennies on the dollar for.

His articles get featured prominently here as news.

While everything about Argentina is posted as shit in Zerohedge?

This guy "FerFAL" doesn't even live in Argentina.  He lives in fucking Ireland!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:15 | 4418015 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Maybe it's because Argentina is so darn good at destroying their currency.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 22:03 | 4418626 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Peronists have been doing this for 70+ years.   Argentinais the Detroit of South America.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:35 | 4418550 Snake
Snake's picture

The vultures always try to despress Argentina's actives as much as possible, to buy them cheap ...

Argentina has been under attack before.  It has survived.  It will survive again.  It's not only

a very resilient country, it does have amazing resources in a depleted world.  That's what the

vultures hate.  Of these people giving lectures about Argentina are very ignorant.  Best regards.  

Snake.

 

ps. my best to Otacon.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 21:37 | 4418572 Otacon
Otacon's picture

Con este tango qu'es burlón y compadrito ...

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:44 | 4419375 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Exactly what I told a group here yesterday... we are under attack from international capital funds and investment banks; Argentina has been under attack by these people for 10 years, we will survive.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 11:18 | 4419824 machineh
machineh's picture

Argentina is under attack from its own idiot peronist government.

Running an overvalued peso, when the rest of the world is playing competitive devaluation, is a recipe for depression.

Blaming foreigners for self-inflicted woes illustrates why Argentina keeps fucking up, decade after decade.

Parallel exchange rates are for LOSERS. No serious country has them. Give up the greasy kid stuff, amigo!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:42 | 4419368 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

There has been an endless series of hit-pieces on Argentina in the financial media, supported by Paul Singer and his ilk, in an obvious attempt to cause a panic among foreign investors and send Argentina begging to borrow money at exorbitant interest rates.  It is my biggest objection to Zerohedge that it continues to uncritically publish these pieces, written by the same types of people that Zerohedge criticizes at every other opportunity.  I live here in Argentina, and the reality is nothing like that described in this article.  I just bought 4 delicious facturas for breakfast for 16 pesos, about $1.25, which is a whole 2 pesos more than I paid for the same facturas last year.  But I grow weary of disputing these claims from people who have no knowledge of what is actually occurring inside the country and had a bad experience in Buenos Aires once.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 11:23 | 4419843 machineh
machineh's picture

'16 pesos, about $1.25'

You are converting at the dólar blue rate, which is illegal.

Why do you defend a government that considers you a criminal?

One of these days, maybe the AFIP dogs (Argentine IRS dogs which sniff out foreign currency) will chomp some sense into you.

Up against the wall, yanqui!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 09:14 | 4419428 Snake
Snake's picture

You got it bud.  Just check ZH postings at the time of the frigate in Ghana ... Seem written by

P Singer himself.  

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:22 | 4417874 DaveA
DaveA's picture

According to Ferfal, Argentines in 2001 didn't swarm out of cities looking for food; they swarmed into cities looking for jobs, turning public parks into shantytowns overnight.  If they found nothing better to do, they became freelance trash recyclers and garbage-eaters.  These people save the city money by reducing the volume of trash that must be landfilled or incinerated.

This doesn't prove Mel Tappan wrong.  It may just be that because 2001 was not a global collapse, Argentina's seaports remained portals to world trade.  As long as a city maintains some economic base, its worst jobs are easier than subsistence farming.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:33 | 4418428 Matt
Matt's picture

Subsistence farming also takes time. If the collapse happens in the autumn, you have to go 6 months until you can plant, unless you can get a decent greenhouse or hot house going. Probably good idea to keep a few months of food stocked, just in case.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 04:17 | 4419196 DaveA
DaveA's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

Watching this video I thought, with a tropical climate and no sign of drought, why don't these people plant crops instead of tearing up riverbeds for a few flecks of gold? Because they're starving, they've eaten all their seed and their draft animals, they can't wait for crops to ripen, and those crops would probably get stolen anyway. Panning gold buys them just enough food to live another day. At least they're not under the yoke of oppressive white landowners anymore!

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 17:28 | 4417888 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

“It’s very selfish to stash money under the mattress when you could buy a government security,” he said in an interview on the C5N television network.

Waa hahaha. Sounds desperate.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:12 | 4418006 logicalman
logicalman's picture

It's very selfish to do the best you can for yourselves and those you care about. We should all just give everything we have to the government/banking gang and let them give us what THEY think we need.

/sarc

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:11 | 4418002 kurt
kurt's picture

The most important thing:

The banks you know did the stealing. It wasn't some off brand Argentinian banks. It's the banks you know, you owe, and have your money. They are international and they don't give a crap about you. Re-regulate. Open State Banks like North Dakota. Yes let the post offices do basic banking. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:35 | 4418244 DaveA
DaveA's picture

Because healthcare.gov works so much better than ehealthinsurance.com!  Nothing is so bad that the government couldn't do it worse.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 10:35 | 4419668 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Need I remind you that "private" sector contractors delivered that turd of a website?  And that an even bigger "private" sector fuckup is now tasked with polishing it?

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:40 | 4418088 The Duke of New...
The Duke of New York A No.1's picture

Argentina = Real-time example of the financial "insurance benefits" from holding precious metals.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:12 | 4418185 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Emerging markets collapsing?  This should be good for another few dozen points in gains on the e-minis this week. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:19 | 4418199 Czar of Defenes...
Czar of Defenestration's picture

 

(sorry if someone asked this earlier in the comments)

Mr. Aguirre's remarks about the half-filled shelves raises a question for me:

I get it that the seller will want to wait before selling, to get the highest price.  But then I would think therefore that the seller would want to keep his shelves as full as possible, stocking them with goods as "cheaply" (i.e. the sooner bought, the less they cost) as possible.

Clarification, please.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:10 | 4418365 Poofter Priest
Poofter Priest's picture

It is a chain reaction.

The sellers can't buy from the distributors because the distributors want to see what the price is on what they will have to pay from the wholesalers. The wholesalers won't sell because they want to see the price....

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:27 | 4418406 withglee
withglee's picture

Probably can't be answered. If the terms from the supplier are cash, he has to be selling stuff to raise that cash. He can hold and sell for more cash himself, but when he replenishes he has to pay more to restock. Further, he has to sell to pay his rent and utilities. Inventory control systems are severely stressed by inflation. Inflation is just an ugly thing. There's no real way to deal with it in trade ... especially if it's varying. What's comical is for government to introduce controls to address inflation. The only government control that can work is discipline themselves ... to not spend more than they take in ... and to not try to take in more than the marketplace and the populace will tolerate. Government is the cancer.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 23:29 | 4418820 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Shop shelves are full in central Buenos Aires.....would write more but it's 12-30 am and it's time to go out-

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 08:45 | 4419380 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Every store in the Cordoba Province is open, doing business, and full of inventory.  Even the electronics shortages of last year are mostly resolved as it appears China needs Soy more than it needs big-screen TVs: lots of newer model cars on the road, much more than a few years ago... but what do I know... I only live here.

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