Why Are So Many People Renouncing American Citizenship?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

The number of Americans that renounced their citizenship was 221 percent higher in 2013 than it was in 2012.  That is a staggering figure, and it is symptomatic of a larger trend.  In recent years, a lot of really good people with very deep roots in this country have made the difficult decision to say goodbye to the United States permanently.  A few actually go to the trouble to renounce their citizenship, and that is mostly done for tax purposes.  But most willingly choose to leave America for other reasons. 

Some were very serious when they said they would leave the U.S. if Barack Obama got a second term, some (such as Jesse Ventura) are dismayed at how our freedoms and liberties are eroding and are alarmed at the rise of the Big Brother police state, some are absolutely disgusted by the social and moral decay that is eating away at the foundations of our society, and there are yet others that consider "the grass to be greener" on the other side of the planet

Personally, I have a number of friends that have made the very hard decision to relocate their families thousands of miles away because they see what is coming to America and they believe that there isn't any hope of turning things around at this point.  I also have a lot of friends that are determined to stay in the United States no matter what.  When it comes to the future of America, almost everyone has a very strong opinion, and these are discussions that we need to start having.

Once upon a time, the United States was seen as "the land of opportunity" all over the globe and it seemed like everyone wanted to come here.

But now that is all changing.  As we have abandoned the principles that this country was founded upon, our economy has gone steadily downhill.

As I wrote about the other day, the middle class in America is slowly dying.  As millions of good paying jobs have been shipped out of the country, the competition for the remaining jobs has become quite intense.  At this point, there is even tremendous competition for minimum wage jobs.

Compared to exactly six years ago, 1,154,000 fewer Americans have jobs.  Meanwhile, our population has gotten significantly larger since then.  There simply are not enough jobs for everyone, and we continue to fall even farther behind.  In January, the economy only added 113,000 jobs and in December the economy only added 75,000 jobs.  Both of those figures are well below what we need just to keep up with population growth.

Looking ahead, things look even more troubling.

The number of "planned job cuts" in January was 12 percent higher than 12 months earlier, and it was actually 47 percent higher than in December.

The competition for jobs has also resulted in an extended period of declining incomes in the United States.

As I mention frequently, median household income in the United States has fallen for five years in a row, and the rate of homeownership in the United States has fallen for eight years in a row.

Those that read my articles regularly probably have those facts memorized by now.

In addition, a study that just came out has shown that the number of "low-wage breadwinners" in the United States is at an all-time high...

A staggering number of American households are relying on low-wage jobs as their leading or sole source of income.

 

Meet the low-wage breadwinner. There were about 21 million of them in the United States in 2011, according to a forthcoming study by University of Massachusetts Boston economists Randy Albelda and Michael Carr.

 

Unlike other studies which often focus just on low-wage workers, the researchers looked at those who also live in low-income households.

 

This way, they were able to strip out the teenager making $8 an hour flipping burgers but still living comfortably with his parents. Or the mom who works a part-time job in retail to supplement her husband's otherwise ample salary.

For tens of millions of average American families, there simply is not enough money left at the end of each month.

That is why many of them turn to debt to try to make up the difference.  Consumer credit is increasing at an alarming pace once again, and when the next great economic shock arrives many of those families are going to be in for a tremendous amount of financial pain.

In this type of economic environment, it should not be a surprise that anger, frustration and desperation are rising to very dangerous levels.

It was desperation and a fear of losing everything that he had ever worked for that drove one 80-year-old man to become a methamphetamine courier.

It was intense anger and frustration that drove a 58-year-old military veteran to package up cat feces and send it to employers that had turned him down...

Rather than simply grumble to himself or complain to others, a St. Louis man aggrieved by a company's failure to hire him took another approach.

 

Jevons Brown packaged up cat feces and sent it through the mail.

 

Brown, 58, was sentenced Friday to two years of probation after pleading guilty in August to a misdemeanor charge of mailing injurious articles.

 

The plea says Brown, a veteran, became frustrated with his lack of employment opportunities and lashed out at employees of companies that failed to hire him.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

In the years ahead, we are going to see much, much worse.

And if you do lose everything, don't expect anyone to care very much.  There is already a frightening lack of compassion for those that are down on their luck in the United States today.  For example, in Pensacola, Florida it is actually illegal for homeless people to use blankets or cardboard boxes to shield themselves from the cold...

So there I was with my wife and three kids, all of us huddled under blankets with the fireplace roaring, watching the temperature continue to drop from a comfortable 65 degrees down to 45. But outside it was 17 degrees and raining and sleeting, and if you were homeless, you had to consider that if you used a blanket to shield yourself from the elements, that you might be hauled off to jail for a violation of a local ordinance prohibiting using blankets, cardboard, or newspaper to cover yourself.

Once you lose everything, society just wants you to go away.

And this lack of compassion is going to get a whole lot worse during the very hard times that are coming.

So it is easy to understand why many Americans would want to get out of this country while they still can.

However, the truth is that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.

For instance, you may be dreaming of moving to a tropical paradise where you can enjoy the sand and the sun every single day.

In the past, many Americans considered Puerto Rico a good place to relocate to.  After all, it is a United States territory and if you only speak English you can still get around pretty well.

But you wouldn't want to move down to Puerto Rico these days.  Right now it is in the middle of a full-blown economic collapse...

Puerto Rico’s slow-motion economic crisis skidded to a new low last week when both Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s downgraded its debt to junk status, brushing aside a series of austerity measures taken by the new governor, including increasing taxes and rebalancing pensions. But that is only the latest in a sharp decline leading to widespread fears about Puerto Rico’s future. In the past eight years, Puerto Rico’s ticker tape of woes has stretched unabated: $70 billion in debt, a 15.4 percent unemployment rate, a soaring cost of living, pervasive crime, crumbling schools and a worrisome exodus of professionals and middle-class Puerto Ricans who have moved to places like Florida and Texas.

In fact, Puerto Rico is a preview of the kind of societal chaos that we could be seeing inside the United States in just a few years...

Schools sit shuttered either because of disrepair or because of a dwindling number of students. In this typically convivial capital, communities have erected gates and bars to help thwart carjackers and home invaders. Illegal drugs, including high-level narcotrafficking, are one of the few growth industries.

Well, what about South America?

In recent years, South America has been an extremely popular destination for those wishing to leave the United States.

Unfortunately, many areas of South America are experiencing full-blown economic collapse right now as well.  As I wrote about recently, deteriorating economic conditions have resulted in widespread crime, looting, violence, blackouts, shortages of basic supplies, and runs on the banks in Argentina and Venezuela.  The following is an excerpt from a recent interview with Fernando Aguirre who actually lives down in Argentina...

Chris Martenson:  Okay. Bring us up to date. What is happening in Argentina right now with respect to its currency, the peso?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Well, actually pretty recently, January 22, the peso lost 15% of its value. It has devalued quite a bit. It ended up losing 20% of its value that week, and it has been pretty crazy since then. Inflation has been rampant in some sectors, going up to 100% in food, grocery stores 20%, 30% in some cases. So it has been pretty complicated. Lots of stores don't want to be selling stuff until they get updated prices. Suppliers holding on, waiting to see how things go, which is something that we are familiar with because that happened back in 2001 when everything went down as we know it did.

 

Chris Martenson:  So 100%, 20% inflation; are those yearly numbers?

 

Fernando Aguirre:  Those are our numbers in a matter of days. In just one day, for example, cement in Balcarce, one of the towns in Southern Argentina, went up 100% overnight, doubling in price. Grocery stores in Córdoba, even in Buenos Aires, people are talking about increase of prices of 20, 30% just these days. I actually have family in Argentina that are telling me that they go to a hardware store and they aren't even able to buy stuff from there because stores want to hold on and see how prices unfold in the following days.

Well, what about Europe?

Isn't Europe a lot more stable?

Unfortunately, that is not necessarily true.  In recent years we have seen rioting, civil unrest and Depression-like conditions in Ukraine, Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal.

And now you can add Bosnia to that list...

More than 150 people were wounded in Bosnia on Friday in the worst civil unrest in the country since the 1992-95 war as anger over the dire state of the economy and political inertia boiled over.

 

Angry protesters set fire to part of the presidential palace in Sarajevo in protests over unemployment and corruption, as well as government buildings in the capital Sarajevo, Tuzla and Zenica.

Just because you move out of the United States does not necessarily mean that you will avoid what is coming.

We are heading for a global economic collapse, and the pain is going to be felt to the farthest corners of the planet.

But of course there are many that will end up leaving the United States and will ultimately thrive.

So what do you think?

Is now a time for people to consider leaving the United States permanently?

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Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4422347 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

They want to find the fastest way possible to get on the NSA's shit list?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:22 | 4422363 booboo
booboo's picture

Fuck it, I'm staying just so I can strangle a couple of Nazi Storm Troopers before they take me out. We do have them here don't we?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:26 | 4422371 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

I have noticed that people here are defending their current choice to stay or disparage people who renounce, as this list is making them fear they were wrong.

"The problem with bubbles is that they force one to decide whether to look like an idiot before the peak, or an idiot after the peak." - John Hussman

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:44 | 4422457 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People are announcing their Armenian citizenship because you guys are losing the Bitcoin race to Canada, China and just about everywhere else.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:48 | 4422489 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

You didn't renounce that !

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:52 | 4422509 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Hey Fonestar, 

Losing to Canada is like losing to a small child during a checkers match. You are just happy to watch him win while you throw the game. 

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:07 | 4422875 grgy
grgy's picture

Hey Grande Tetons, how come you never read anything about Canadians giving up their passports?  Think about that for a minute and then let me know what you come up with.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:20 | 4422893 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Are we really gonna have this kind of conversation on this website?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:52 | 4423227 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

ok , i will only say this once.

Some of you could think of all of this in another way.

renounce , have kids in South America, stop paying taxes and start collecting.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 03:03 | 4423016 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Plenty of room up here in the "Great White North." This is not racist. Its the color of the Winter landscape you have to get used to. Since its Winter up here for most of the year. The other season is Summer for 90 or so days.

The local delicacies might take some getting used to, like; "Flipper Pie." Stewed baby seal flippers, baked with a fluffy crust on top. Or, "Pemican." Ground up deer, moose, elk, or cariboo, mixed with fat and dried. Later just add water and fry. How about poutine? Beaver tail? Dried salt cod, salmon, kelp, or fried smelts?

Yes Siree-Bob! Lottsa room up here! Eh? Hope you like hockey, curling, anything to do with snow, including shovelling it. Bring a good flashlight because ihe daylight is short. Oh, Did I mention the gun laws are VERY restrictive. Thats why we stab each other and you southerners shoot each other.

Well, gotta go check the plug in for the car block heater. Otherwise its a long walk with the snow shoes on. Snow shoes? Lets see... those are... here sit down and have a beer. And I'll tell ya...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:26 | 4423386 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Poutine?

Might that be a northern version of, "Poontang"?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:47 | 4423220 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

i agree unless it's hockey.
we know who the child is there.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:55 | 4422524 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Geek boi, what happened to NSAcoin the other day?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4423575 XitSam
XitSam's picture

What the heck is the "Bitcoin race"?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:24 | 4422780 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

About 3000 left last year.  That is not very many.  It would be a very hard thing to do, even for someone who is wealthy.  If you are not at least slightly wealthy, most countries will not let you in...

Plus, you would need to learn the language, eat the food and adapt to local customs.  That would be very hard for most.

Our "Plan B" is Peru.  BUt, things would have to get pretty bad for us to move there, even with our bearing import company there.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:39 | 4423248 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

What's funny is the people who heap scorn on those who leave the plantation, thinking that the runaway slaves are the imperialist/fascist .0001%ers. Those people (massa .0001% and his buddies) basically pay no taxes, so the taxes wouldn't be a contributing factor, and because those people control the levers of powers in Washington and the purse strings of the banks and the boards of the multinationals that own such a large share of the productive tangible assets - those people aren't going anywhere, and much prefer to simply remain overlords of the increasingly despondent masses in the USSA gulag.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:19 | 4423323 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

+100

One, three thousand is not a big number in a nation of over 300 million. Two, foreigners are treated badly in any country unless they have a lot of money. Three, this is my country- I'm an American, not a USSA citizen slave, that is worth fighting for. Four, when the shit hits the fan, do you really think EM's are going to do well? The slave trade is global and overseen by central banks, have you looked at the countries without one? Five, why would we ever allow the zionist/illuminati/luciferian axis to make us slaves? Grow a pair and just say no to the State, Law and Banking as we know it.

Edit: if you want to renounce your citizenship, then renounce the USSA. Do you really enjoy being a slave?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4422407 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm with you.

But when we're done here, I have a few I simply must meet overseas, with both good & bad intentions ;-)

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:24 | 4422368 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Double

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:09 | 4423181 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

and go where?

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/OECD_seeks_inspiration_from_FATCA_m...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/item/17337-globalists-exploit-new-...

I did enjoy the recommendation for moving to Australia for our great banks by one stupid head....please do come Hockey's wife and Turnbull's cronies will look after you ;)

http://cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/flyer/20130823_Two-faced_Joe_Hockey_lied...

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4422354 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Why Are So Many People Renouncing American Citizenship?"

Looking for a better deal.

Next.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:48 | 4422486 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I'm not renouncing dick.

Less than 3% of the population here ever fought for the Continental Union, less than 11% backed them when we kicked the British out.

Fuck this. I can lead, I can follow, but my old ass hasn't got anything better to do then start the transition up and get shit to where it once was (so all this shit can start over).

Fucking pansies, leave. Who the fuck needs them anyway?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:54 | 4422504 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

How will you fight drones?

 

Lemme guess.. you are going to go all-in as in suicide bomber right, like they do in Talibani land?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:05 | 4422563 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Think outside the box, idiot. You think drones can't be jammed? Do you think drones can't be shot?

I had friends stealing hand grenades from the local armory when we were kids. We went FISHING with them. I think we can figure shit out now that we've all been college edumakated.

Drones go for decoys? Or do they hit wedding parties on purpose? Think, it all doesn't happen in one day.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:17 | 4422604 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Don't be naive.

Drones that the Pentagoons are flying, do so at more than 5000 miles altitude. You can't fucking see them.

And you honestly think your bullets can do some damage??

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:02 | 4422726 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Drones fly above the atmosphere? Well, how about that. LOL

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:13 | 4422757 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

This is one strange universe really, one that dismisses superposition of effects, or multiple causes leading on the same effects.

Confusion between causes and effects.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:17 | 4422761 akak
akak's picture

So not only do US 'american' Pentagoon (sic) drones fly through the ionosphere, they are invisible too!

There is no end to the amazing facts that I learn on ZeroHedge.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 11:55 | 4423835 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Look you stupid fuck, I may have exagerated with the 5000 miles number just to troll fuckers.

 

Predator drones can fly up to 450 miles in the air, and stay there for 14 hours.

Do you think your Ar15 or Ak47 can shoot up 450 miles and bring down the drones?

Also these drones fly at night and are equipped with nightvision and thermalvision.

You can't fucking see them.

 

Also hacking is impossible if you can't get close to them. As in less than half a mile at the very  least.

When the Iranians hacked one drone they got with airplanes really close. You fucking "freedom fighters patriots" hidding in the forests of Alaska will hack shit.

Also the pilots of these drones could very well be Jose&Raul playing a computer game and killing you just because their God Obama told them you are neonazi fucks are enemies of the State.

Better take a closer look at history and what happened in Russia with the bolsevik revolution, instead of this redneck "..we will fight.." Terminator-like fantasy.

You United Stateans are simply fucked. There is no escape.

And truth be told, you ZeroHedge readers acting all patriotic and ".. wez hatez zee Obamaz regime.." are less than 1% of the USSA population.

Truth be told, your country is already assimilated. Morally corrupt. Not just your politicians.. But the 99% of the united stateans. Ideologically corrupt. You are nation of "me me me" selfish fucks.

The 1% Alex Jones types fat fucks that will attempt to put up an armed fight will be declared terrorists and exterminated. And 99% of the united stateans will actually snitch the 1% to the authorities so as to help fight terrorists and get their reward for helping to aprehend a terrorist cell.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:42 | 4424477 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Look Stupid Fuck, if you want call other people Stupid Fuck, you might want to find something more solid (or at least factual) to stand on, unless you really enjoy coming across as an awful Monty Python re-enactment.

You were properly called out on your "5000 mile" exosphere BS (those "drones" are called SATELLITES, and they can actually be visible with the naked eye from earth's surface at night)

Then you followed up with -- 450 miles, which is equivalent to 2,376,000 feet.

Exactly which Predator variant has a service ceiling over 60,000 feet, much less 2,000,000?

As to hacking- your "less than half a mile" notion is ludicrous. If the command vehicle is plugged into the DOD interwebz, a Romanian kid could hack into a US drone in Yemen from his parents' basement in Bucharest.

For more traditional radio signal intercept and manipulation- the constraint is the ability to broadcast and receive on the correct frequency at the "terrorist" radios distance from target. Effective distance (for both lawful and superstitious command and control) varies with radio frequency, but you would probably be surprised at what I can squeeze out of my little 60ft backyard antenna in Redneck Appalachia (hint: it's more than 5000 miles, and could easily reach the NDB/Onyx listening post over in Zimmerwald). Then again, my Iridium work phone, which can fit in my pocket, can also communicate with "drones" way up in the exosphere so perhaps the 20m fixed radio mast example is a bit of overkill...

If you want to take BS and peddle it as facts, fee free to do so-- elsewhere. there are enough people around ZH with both the experience and the capacity for rational thought and applied science, that you'll wind up looking like roadkill (complete with skid-marks) every time someone bothers to respond... and they're not going to go any easier on you in your fourth week around here.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:49 | 4422837 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Unless you're a high profile target they aren't going to waste a drone fired sixty thousand dollar hellfire missle on you, especially if we're broke after a financial collapse. More than likely you will be killed by a couple of bucks worth of 5.56 courtesy of some dickless Blackwater asshat they contract out to "contain" the situation like they did after Katrina

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:00 | 4423173 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

harder to contain when it's nationwide.  the future retains its option to surprise.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:53 | 4423228 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

band cap , thanks for the laugh..

Terminator was your thing, right John?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 11:29 | 4423754 robobbob
robobbob's picture

drones go where politicians send them? politicians have donors and puppetmasters? do they eat? do they sleep? do they go on vacations? why be an idiot and replay picketts charge? why even engage fellow, though misguided, citizens? we all know that one way or another this all leads back to the central bankers and their owners. about 8000 people at the core. instead of worrying about how you're going to die in a useless frontal assault, start thinking about how to make it not worth it for them. money buys incredible power, but when the ink starts turning red, they get scared fast.

Q: how did the french resistance fight german tanks? A: they didn't. they hit where the enemy is wasn't.

Q: how did patriots kick to hell out of redcoats when they came for the guns? A: fighting with the incredible ferocity of belief and dedication, coupled with the common sense to use tactics and methods the enemy were unprepared for, instead of pointlessly jumping into a meat grinder.

future war is not just guns. military, economic, political, social. pick your battlefield and use suitable methods.

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:34 | 4423409 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

And if and when things get really bad, there will be enough drone strikes against wedding parties and school children to get even the most ambivalent mother fuckers off the fence.  

If the militarily weaker party always lost revolutions, then there would never be, nor have ever been, any successful revolutions at any time in history.  Revolutions are always fought by marginal forces against a more powerful status quo...ALWAYS.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:53 | 4423254 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The drones are easy to the point of being almost a non-issue.

Who do think trained the Taliban?

Many know where drone command and control trailers are parked, and where the wives and children of the operators reside.

There are also huge stashes of FIM92's (Stingers) if one knows where to look.

Wars suck, but if the fascists try to start a war in the US, there is going to be whole new level of suck to embrace.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:57 | 4422531 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Feb. 10, 2014, 3:16 p.m. EST
U.S. to suspend pension, retirement funding: Lew

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew told Congressional leaders Monday that he is taking two extraordinary measures to avoid hitting the debt limit. In a letter, Lew said he will suspend debt issuance for the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and not invest fully in the Government Securities Investment Fund of the Federal Employees' Retirment System. Lew said that the actions were taken "during previous debt-limit impasses," and that both funds "will be made whole once the debt limit is increased." Federal retirees and employees will be unaffected by these actions, he said.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-to-suspend-pension-retirement-fundin...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:23 | 4422900 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Every time I read shit like that, in gla I never messed with the military tsp. I show it to friends who do, and they have no concern whatsoever

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:22 | 4423192 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

This is just the initial action. Temporary gov't programs will eventually become permanent. Uncle Sam's favorite game is "Just the Tip".

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:13 | 4422553 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Back in them there days pilgrim, we didn't have nukes, emp's, bio-weps, chem-weps, drones, psych drugs that have chemically subdued the sheep, nazi styled police, etc.....

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:37 | 4422658 August
August's picture

A very substantial part of the colonial elite was on the side of the rebellion in the 1770's.  The elite is NOT on the side of rebellion now, and frankly i doubt they will be, no matter what.

Elite participation and leadership made the difference in the American Revolution, and their (very likely) absence from a future revolutution bodes poorly for any success.  The best we can hope for is the dissolution of the "indivisible union", so that at least some areas may maintain a semblance of self-government, and self-respect.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:14 | 4423186 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

it depends how you mean elite.  the richest?  how many of them were on the side (to take examples of larger nations, at the time) the french or chinese revolutions?

if one means the intelligentsia, lenin's revolutionary vanguard, imo their loyalties are harder to predict, especially as events and mass opinion change.  i would guess the younger the more disaffected for starters.  and they are the ones traditionally at the ramparts who make the prettiest and most affecting corpses.

obama doesn't strike me as a man of much resolve.  not even so sure about jamie dimon.   

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:18 | 4423357 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Wish people would stop using that figure, it is completely wrong. 25% of the people fought as Revolutionaries with a like number as Tories. 50% just wished it was over and people would stop stealing their crops, animals and raping their wives and daughters. Read, "Tories" by Thomas Allen.

Most Americn deaths were at the hand of other Americans. This time, it will probably be robots (Helicopters, drones, soldiers and targeting/firing machines). 

 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:24 | 4422367 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Move to Rural America. It's just like a whole other country...........

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:35 | 4422414 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

You have Internet in rural USSA?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:36 | 4422432 Hulk
Hulk's picture

No need for the internet in rural america, naked chicks are running around everywhere !!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422481 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You seen 'em, too?  Nekid bitches!  Nekid bitches!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422493 Hulk
Hulk's picture

makes it much easier to check for ticks...

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:59 | 4422539 booboo
booboo's picture

In West Virginia ticks are considered beauty marks.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:56 | 4423231 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

Tits are the
state flower in California.

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