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Why Are So Many People Renouncing American Citizenship?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

The number of Americans that renounced their citizenship was 221 percent higher in 2013 than it was in 2012.  That is a staggering figure, and it is symptomatic of a larger trend.  In recent years, a lot of really good people with very deep roots in this country have made the difficult decision to say goodbye to the United States permanently.  A few actually go to the trouble to renounce their citizenship, and that is mostly done for tax purposes.  But most willingly choose to leave America for other reasons. 

Some were very serious when they said they would leave the U.S. if Barack Obama got a second term, some (such as Jesse Ventura) are dismayed at how our freedoms and liberties are eroding and are alarmed at the rise of the Big Brother police state, some are absolutely disgusted by the social and moral decay that is eating away at the foundations of our society, and there are yet others that consider "the grass to be greener" on the other side of the planet

Personally, I have a number of friends that have made the very hard decision to relocate their families thousands of miles away because they see what is coming to America and they believe that there isn't any hope of turning things around at this point.  I also have a lot of friends that are determined to stay in the United States no matter what.  When it comes to the future of America, almost everyone has a very strong opinion, and these are discussions that we need to start having.

Once upon a time, the United States was seen as "the land of opportunity" all over the globe and it seemed like everyone wanted to come here.

But now that is all changing.  As we have abandoned the principles that this country was founded upon, our economy has gone steadily downhill.

As I wrote about the other day, the middle class in America is slowly dying.  As millions of good paying jobs have been shipped out of the country, the competition for the remaining jobs has become quite intense.  At this point, there is even tremendous competition for minimum wage jobs.

Compared to exactly six years ago, 1,154,000 fewer Americans have jobs.  Meanwhile, our population has gotten significantly larger since then.  There simply are not enough jobs for everyone, and we continue to fall even farther behind.  In January, the economy only added 113,000 jobs and in December the economy only added 75,000 jobs.  Both of those figures are well below what we need just to keep up with population growth.

Looking ahead, things look even more troubling.

The number of "planned job cuts" in January was 12 percent higher than 12 months earlier, and it was actually 47 percent higher than in December.

The competition for jobs has also resulted in an extended period of declining incomes in the United States.

As I mention frequently, median household income in the United States has fallen for five years in a row, and the rate of homeownership in the United States has fallen for eight years in a row.

Those that read my articles regularly probably have those facts memorized by now.

In addition, a study that just came out has shown that the number of "low-wage breadwinners" in the United States is at an all-time high...

A staggering number of American households are relying on low-wage jobs as their leading or sole source of income.


Meet the low-wage breadwinner. There were about 21 million of them in the United States in 2011, according to a forthcoming study by University of Massachusetts Boston economists Randy Albelda and Michael Carr.


Unlike other studies which often focus just on low-wage workers, the researchers looked at those who also live in low-income households.


This way, they were able to strip out the teenager making $8 an hour flipping burgers but still living comfortably with his parents. Or the mom who works a part-time job in retail to supplement her husband's otherwise ample salary.

For tens of millions of average American families, there simply is not enough money left at the end of each month.

That is why many of them turn to debt to try to make up the difference.  Consumer credit is increasing at an alarming pace once again, and when the next great economic shock arrives many of those families are going to be in for a tremendous amount of financial pain.

In this type of economic environment, it should not be a surprise that anger, frustration and desperation are rising to very dangerous levels.

It was desperation and a fear of losing everything that he had ever worked for that drove one 80-year-old man to become a methamphetamine courier.

It was intense anger and frustration that drove a 58-year-old military veteran to package up cat feces and send it to employers that had turned him down...

Rather than simply grumble to himself or complain to others, a St. Louis man aggrieved by a company's failure to hire him took another approach.


Jevons Brown packaged up cat feces and sent it through the mail.


Brown, 58, was sentenced Friday to two years of probation after pleading guilty in August to a misdemeanor charge of mailing injurious articles.


The plea says Brown, a veteran, became frustrated with his lack of employment opportunities and lashed out at employees of companies that failed to hire him.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

In the years ahead, we are going to see much, much worse.

And if you do lose everything, don't expect anyone to care very much.  There is already a frightening lack of compassion for those that are down on their luck in the United States today.  For example, in Pensacola, Florida it is actually illegal for homeless people to use blankets or cardboard boxes to shield themselves from the cold...

So there I was with my wife and three kids, all of us huddled under blankets with the fireplace roaring, watching the temperature continue to drop from a comfortable 65 degrees down to 45. But outside it was 17 degrees and raining and sleeting, and if you were homeless, you had to consider that if you used a blanket to shield yourself from the elements, that you might be hauled off to jail for a violation of a local ordinance prohibiting using blankets, cardboard, or newspaper to cover yourself.

Once you lose everything, society just wants you to go away.

And this lack of compassion is going to get a whole lot worse during the very hard times that are coming.

So it is easy to understand why many Americans would want to get out of this country while they still can.

However, the truth is that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.

For instance, you may be dreaming of moving to a tropical paradise where you can enjoy the sand and the sun every single day.

In the past, many Americans considered Puerto Rico a good place to relocate to.  After all, it is a United States territory and if you only speak English you can still get around pretty well.

But you wouldn't want to move down to Puerto Rico these days.  Right now it is in the middle of a full-blown economic collapse...

Puerto Rico’s slow-motion economic crisis skidded to a new low last week when both Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s downgraded its debt to junk status, brushing aside a series of austerity measures taken by the new governor, including increasing taxes and rebalancing pensions. But that is only the latest in a sharp decline leading to widespread fears about Puerto Rico’s future. In the past eight years, Puerto Rico’s ticker tape of woes has stretched unabated: $70 billion in debt, a 15.4 percent unemployment rate, a soaring cost of living, pervasive crime, crumbling schools and a worrisome exodus of professionals and middle-class Puerto Ricans who have moved to places like Florida and Texas.

In fact, Puerto Rico is a preview of the kind of societal chaos that we could be seeing inside the United States in just a few years...

Schools sit shuttered either because of disrepair or because of a dwindling number of students. In this typically convivial capital, communities have erected gates and bars to help thwart carjackers and home invaders. Illegal drugs, including high-level narcotrafficking, are one of the few growth industries.

Well, what about South America?

In recent years, South America has been an extremely popular destination for those wishing to leave the United States.

Unfortunately, many areas of South America are experiencing full-blown economic collapse right now as well.  As I wrote about recently, deteriorating economic conditions have resulted in widespread crime, looting, violence, blackouts, shortages of basic supplies, and runs on the banks in Argentina and Venezuela.  The following is an excerpt from a recent interview with Fernando Aguirre who actually lives down in Argentina...

Chris Martenson:  Okay. Bring us up to date. What is happening in Argentina right now with respect to its currency, the peso?


Fernando Aguirre:  Well, actually pretty recently, January 22, the peso lost 15% of its value. It has devalued quite a bit. It ended up losing 20% of its value that week, and it has been pretty crazy since then. Inflation has been rampant in some sectors, going up to 100% in food, grocery stores 20%, 30% in some cases. So it has been pretty complicated. Lots of stores don't want to be selling stuff until they get updated prices. Suppliers holding on, waiting to see how things go, which is something that we are familiar with because that happened back in 2001 when everything went down as we know it did.


Chris Martenson:  So 100%, 20% inflation; are those yearly numbers?


Fernando Aguirre:  Those are our numbers in a matter of days. In just one day, for example, cement in Balcarce, one of the towns in Southern Argentina, went up 100% overnight, doubling in price. Grocery stores in Córdoba, even in Buenos Aires, people are talking about increase of prices of 20, 30% just these days. I actually have family in Argentina that are telling me that they go to a hardware store and they aren't even able to buy stuff from there because stores want to hold on and see how prices unfold in the following days.

Well, what about Europe?

Isn't Europe a lot more stable?

Unfortunately, that is not necessarily true.  In recent years we have seen rioting, civil unrest and Depression-like conditions in Ukraine, Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal.

And now you can add Bosnia to that list...

More than 150 people were wounded in Bosnia on Friday in the worst civil unrest in the country since the 1992-95 war as anger over the dire state of the economy and political inertia boiled over.


Angry protesters set fire to part of the presidential palace in Sarajevo in protests over unemployment and corruption, as well as government buildings in the capital Sarajevo, Tuzla and Zenica.

Just because you move out of the United States does not necessarily mean that you will avoid what is coming.

We are heading for a global economic collapse, and the pain is going to be felt to the farthest corners of the planet.

But of course there are many that will end up leaving the United States and will ultimately thrive.

So what do you think?

Is now a time for people to consider leaving the United States permanently?


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Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4422347 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

They want to find the fastest way possible to get on the NSA's shit list?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:22 | 4422363 booboo
booboo's picture

Fuck it, I'm staying just so I can strangle a couple of Nazi Storm Troopers before they take me out. We do have them here don't we?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:26 | 4422371 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

I have noticed that people here are defending their current choice to stay or disparage people who renounce, as this list is making them fear they were wrong.

"The problem with bubbles is that they force one to decide whether to look like an idiot before the peak, or an idiot after the peak." - John Hussman


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:44 | 4422457 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People are announcing their Armenian citizenship because you guys are losing the Bitcoin race to Canada, China and just about everywhere else.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:48 | 4422489 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

You didn't renounce that !

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:52 | 4422509 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Hey Fonestar, 

Losing to Canada is like losing to a small child during a checkers match. You are just happy to watch him win while you throw the game. 


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:07 | 4422875 grgy
grgy's picture

Hey Grande Tetons, how come you never read anything about Canadians giving up their passports?  Think about that for a minute and then let me know what you come up with.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:20 | 4422893 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Are we really gonna have this kind of conversation on this website?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:52 | 4423227 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

ok , i will only say this once.

Some of you could think of all of this in another way.

renounce , have kids in South America, stop paying taxes and start collecting.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 03:03 | 4423016 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Plenty of room up here in the "Great White North." This is not racist. Its the color of the Winter landscape you have to get used to. Since its Winter up here for most of the year. The other season is Summer for 90 or so days.

The local delicacies might take some getting used to, like; "Flipper Pie." Stewed baby seal flippers, baked with a fluffy crust on top. Or, "Pemican." Ground up deer, moose, elk, or cariboo, mixed with fat and dried. Later just add water and fry. How about poutine? Beaver tail? Dried salt cod, salmon, kelp, or fried smelts?

Yes Siree-Bob! Lottsa room up here! Eh? Hope you like hockey, curling, anything to do with snow, including shovelling it. Bring a good flashlight because ihe daylight is short. Oh, Did I mention the gun laws are VERY restrictive. Thats why we stab each other and you southerners shoot each other.

Well, gotta go check the plug in for the car block heater. Otherwise its a long walk with the snow shoes on. Snow shoes? Lets see... those are... here sit down and have a beer. And I'll tell ya...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:26 | 4423386 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture


Might that be a northern version of, "Poontang"?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:47 | 4423220 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

i agree unless it's hockey.
we know who the child is there.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:55 | 4422524 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Geek boi, what happened to NSAcoin the other day?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4423575 XitSam
XitSam's picture

What the heck is the "Bitcoin race"?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422467 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Efficiency bitches!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:24 | 4422780 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

About 3000 left last year.  That is not very many.  It would be a very hard thing to do, even for someone who is wealthy.  If you are not at least slightly wealthy, most countries will not let you in...

Plus, you would need to learn the language, eat the food and adapt to local customs.  That would be very hard for most.

Our "Plan B" is Peru.  BUt, things would have to get pretty bad for us to move there, even with our bearing import company there.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:39 | 4423248 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

What's funny is the people who heap scorn on those who leave the plantation, thinking that the runaway slaves are the imperialist/fascist .0001%ers. Those people (massa .0001% and his buddies) basically pay no taxes, so the taxes wouldn't be a contributing factor, and because those people control the levers of powers in Washington and the purse strings of the banks and the boards of the multinationals that own such a large share of the productive tangible assets - those people aren't going anywhere, and much prefer to simply remain overlords of the increasingly despondent masses in the USSA gulag.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:19 | 4423323 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture


One, three thousand is not a big number in a nation of over 300 million. Two, foreigners are treated badly in any country unless they have a lot of money. Three, this is my country- I'm an American, not a USSA citizen slave, that is worth fighting for. Four, when the shit hits the fan, do you really think EM's are going to do well? The slave trade is global and overseen by central banks, have you looked at the countries without one? Five, why would we ever allow the zionist/illuminati/luciferian axis to make us slaves? Grow a pair and just say no to the State, Law and Banking as we know it.

Edit: if you want to renounce your citizenship, then renounce the USSA. Do you really enjoy being a slave?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4422407 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm with you.

But when we're done here, I have a few I simply must meet overseas, with both good & bad intentions ;-)

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:24 | 4422368 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture



Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:09 | 4423181 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

and go where?

I did enjoy the recommendation for moving to Australia for our great banks by one stupid head....please do come Hockey's wife and Turnbull's cronies will look after you ;)


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4422354 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Why Are So Many People Renouncing American Citizenship?"

Looking for a better deal.


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:48 | 4422486 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I'm not renouncing dick.

Less than 3% of the population here ever fought for the Continental Union, less than 11% backed them when we kicked the British out.

Fuck this. I can lead, I can follow, but my old ass hasn't got anything better to do then start the transition up and get shit to where it once was (so all this shit can start over).

Fucking pansies, leave. Who the fuck needs them anyway?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:54 | 4422504 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

How will you fight drones?


Lemme guess.. you are going to go all-in as in suicide bomber right, like they do in Talibani land?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:05 | 4422563 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Think outside the box, idiot. You think drones can't be jammed? Do you think drones can't be shot?

I had friends stealing hand grenades from the local armory when we were kids. We went FISHING with them. I think we can figure shit out now that we've all been college edumakated.

Drones go for decoys? Or do they hit wedding parties on purpose? Think, it all doesn't happen in one day.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:17 | 4422604 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Don't be naive.

Drones that the Pentagoons are flying, do so at more than 5000 miles altitude. You can't fucking see them.

And you honestly think your bullets can do some damage??


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:02 | 4422726 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Drones fly above the atmosphere? Well, how about that. LOL

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:13 | 4422757 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

This is one strange universe really, one that dismisses superposition of effects, or multiple causes leading on the same effects.

Confusion between causes and effects.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:17 | 4422761 akak
akak's picture

So not only do US 'american' Pentagoon (sic) drones fly through the ionosphere, they are invisible too!

There is no end to the amazing facts that I learn on ZeroHedge.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 11:55 | 4423835 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Look you stupid fuck, I may have exagerated with the 5000 miles number just to troll fuckers.


Predator drones can fly up to 450 miles in the air, and stay there for 14 hours.

Do you think your Ar15 or Ak47 can shoot up 450 miles and bring down the drones?

Also these drones fly at night and are equipped with nightvision and thermalvision.

You can't fucking see them.


Also hacking is impossible if you can't get close to them. As in less than half a mile at the very  least.

When the Iranians hacked one drone they got with airplanes really close. You fucking "freedom fighters patriots" hidding in the forests of Alaska will hack shit.

Also the pilots of these drones could very well be Jose&Raul playing a computer game and killing you just because their God Obama told them you are neonazi fucks are enemies of the State.

Better take a closer look at history and what happened in Russia with the bolsevik revolution, instead of this redneck "..we will fight.." Terminator-like fantasy.

You United Stateans are simply fucked. There is no escape.

And truth be told, you ZeroHedge readers acting all patriotic and ".. wez hatez zee Obamaz regime.." are less than 1% of the USSA population.

Truth be told, your country is already assimilated. Morally corrupt. Not just your politicians.. But the 99% of the united stateans. Ideologically corrupt. You are nation of "me me me" selfish fucks.

The 1% Alex Jones types fat fucks that will attempt to put up an armed fight will be declared terrorists and exterminated. And 99% of the united stateans will actually snitch the 1% to the authorities so as to help fight terrorists and get their reward for helping to aprehend a terrorist cell.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:42 | 4424477 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Look Stupid Fuck, if you want call other people Stupid Fuck, you might want to find something more solid (or at least factual) to stand on, unless you really enjoy coming across as an awful Monty Python re-enactment.

You were properly called out on your "5000 mile" exosphere BS (those "drones" are called SATELLITES, and they can actually be visible with the naked eye from earth's surface at night)

Then you followed up with -- 450 miles, which is equivalent to 2,376,000 feet.

Exactly which Predator variant has a service ceiling over 60,000 feet, much less 2,000,000?

As to hacking- your "less than half a mile" notion is ludicrous. If the command vehicle is plugged into the DOD interwebz, a Romanian kid could hack into a US drone in Yemen from his parents' basement in Bucharest.

For more traditional radio signal intercept and manipulation- the constraint is the ability to broadcast and receive on the correct frequency at the "terrorist" radios distance from target. Effective distance (for both lawful and superstitious command and control) varies with radio frequency, but you would probably be surprised at what I can squeeze out of my little 60ft backyard antenna in Redneck Appalachia (hint: it's more than 5000 miles, and could easily reach the NDB/Onyx listening post over in Zimmerwald). Then again, my Iridium work phone, which can fit in my pocket, can also communicate with "drones" way up in the exosphere so perhaps the 20m fixed radio mast example is a bit of overkill...

If you want to take BS and peddle it as facts, fee free to do so-- elsewhere. there are enough people around ZH with both the experience and the capacity for rational thought and applied science, that you'll wind up looking like roadkill (complete with skid-marks) every time someone bothers to respond... and they're not going to go any easier on you in your fourth week around here.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:49 | 4422837 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Unless you're a high profile target they aren't going to waste a drone fired sixty thousand dollar hellfire missle on you, especially if we're broke after a financial collapse. More than likely you will be killed by a couple of bucks worth of 5.56 courtesy of some dickless Blackwater asshat they contract out to "contain" the situation like they did after Katrina

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:00 | 4423173 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

harder to contain when it's nationwide.  the future retains its option to surprise.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:53 | 4423228 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

band cap , thanks for the laugh..

Terminator was your thing, right John?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 11:29 | 4423754 robobbob
robobbob's picture

drones go where politicians send them? politicians have donors and puppetmasters? do they eat? do they sleep? do they go on vacations? why be an idiot and replay picketts charge? why even engage fellow, though misguided, citizens? we all know that one way or another this all leads back to the central bankers and their owners. about 8000 people at the core. instead of worrying about how you're going to die in a useless frontal assault, start thinking about how to make it not worth it for them. money buys incredible power, but when the ink starts turning red, they get scared fast.

Q: how did the french resistance fight german tanks? A: they didn't. they hit where the enemy is wasn't.

Q: how did patriots kick to hell out of redcoats when they came for the guns? A: fighting with the incredible ferocity of belief and dedication, coupled with the common sense to use tactics and methods the enemy were unprepared for, instead of pointlessly jumping into a meat grinder.

future war is not just guns. military, economic, political, social. pick your battlefield and use suitable methods.


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:34 | 4423409 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

And if and when things get really bad, there will be enough drone strikes against wedding parties and school children to get even the most ambivalent mother fuckers off the fence.  

If the militarily weaker party always lost revolutions, then there would never be, nor have ever been, any successful revolutions at any time in history.  Revolutions are always fought by marginal forces against a more powerful status quo...ALWAYS.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:53 | 4423254 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The drones are easy to the point of being almost a non-issue.

Who do think trained the Taliban?

Many know where drone command and control trailers are parked, and where the wives and children of the operators reside.

There are also huge stashes of FIM92's (Stingers) if one knows where to look.

Wars suck, but if the fascists try to start a war in the US, there is going to be whole new level of suck to embrace.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:57 | 4422531 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Feb. 10, 2014, 3:16 p.m. EST
U.S. to suspend pension, retirement funding: Lew

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew told Congressional leaders Monday that he is taking two extraordinary measures to avoid hitting the debt limit. In a letter, Lew said he will suspend debt issuance for the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and not invest fully in the Government Securities Investment Fund of the Federal Employees' Retirment System. Lew said that the actions were taken "during previous debt-limit impasses," and that both funds "will be made whole once the debt limit is increased." Federal retirees and employees will be unaffected by these actions, he said.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:23 | 4422900 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Every time I read shit like that, in gla I never messed with the military tsp. I show it to friends who do, and they have no concern whatsoever

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:22 | 4423192 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

This is just the initial action. Temporary gov't programs will eventually become permanent. Uncle Sam's favorite game is "Just the Tip".

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:13 | 4422553 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Back in them there days pilgrim, we didn't have nukes, emp's, bio-weps, chem-weps, drones, psych drugs that have chemically subdued the sheep, nazi styled police, etc.....

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:37 | 4422658 August
August's picture

A very substantial part of the colonial elite was on the side of the rebellion in the 1770's.  The elite is NOT on the side of rebellion now, and frankly i doubt they will be, no matter what.

Elite participation and leadership made the difference in the American Revolution, and their (very likely) absence from a future revolutution bodes poorly for any success.  The best we can hope for is the dissolution of the "indivisible union", so that at least some areas may maintain a semblance of self-government, and self-respect.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:14 | 4423186 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

it depends how you mean elite.  the richest?  how many of them were on the side (to take examples of larger nations, at the time) the french or chinese revolutions?

if one means the intelligentsia, lenin's revolutionary vanguard, imo their loyalties are harder to predict, especially as events and mass opinion change.  i would guess the younger the more disaffected for starters.  and they are the ones traditionally at the ramparts who make the prettiest and most affecting corpses.

obama doesn't strike me as a man of much resolve.  not even so sure about jamie dimon.   

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:18 | 4423357 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Wish people would stop using that figure, it is completely wrong. 25% of the people fought as Revolutionaries with a like number as Tories. 50% just wished it was over and people would stop stealing their crops, animals and raping their wives and daughters. Read, "Tories" by Thomas Allen.

Most Americn deaths were at the hand of other Americans. This time, it will probably be robots (Helicopters, drones, soldiers and targeting/firing machines). 


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:24 | 4422367 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Move to Rural America. It's just like a whole other country...........

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:35 | 4422414 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

You have Internet in rural USSA?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:36 | 4422432 Hulk
Hulk's picture

No need for the internet in rural america, naked chicks are running around everywhere !!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422481 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You seen 'em, too?  Nekid bitches!  Nekid bitches!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422493 Hulk
Hulk's picture

makes it much easier to check for ticks...

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:59 | 4422539 booboo
booboo's picture

In West Virginia ticks are considered beauty marks.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:56 | 4423231 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

Tits are the
state flower in California.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:45 | 4422456 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Only in between Indian raids on the wireless transmission waves.........

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:24 | 4422370 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:25 | 4422377 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

It´s always a sign of propaganda if someone argues with percentages instead of the real numbers. And this is even true fo the Tylers.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4422408 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

This is ALWAYS true for Michael Snyder.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:34 | 4422416 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Once he learned how to cut and paste he was really off and running.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:45 | 4422473 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Michael Snyder's articles are the same ol' same ol'.  I was reading on The Economic Collapse Blog and End of the American Dream (Michael's sites) long before I discovered ZH, and I gave up reading those blogs a long time ago because I got tired of the formula:

GLOOM AND DOOM INTRODUCTION meant to scare the pants off the stupid and influence them to buy Product Q, which coincidentally happens to be advertising on Michael's site, followed by:

Layman's explanation of GUBMINT PROBLEM X, which is caused by:

List of 37 links (often recycled from one article to the next) that relate loosely to GUBMINT PROBLEM X but not necessarily in a causative fashion, followed by:

CONCLUSION OF DOOM, in which Michael restates what the 37 odd links were supposed to demonstrate, followed by:

WHAT DO YOU THINK?, which is an invitation to the aforementioned stupid readers to post their incoherent thoughts of Soros-funded alien invasions and suchlike.

I wish the Tylers would stop posting his tripe here.  I came here to read about the same topics, only stated more elegantly, with real evidence like charts and non-gubmint statistics and stuff, and with a much higher cognitive level among the commenters.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422496 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They are worse than same ol same ol. They are regurgitated cut and paste crap. The guy does not have an original thought. He probably "writes" them from his laptop while sitting in a starbucks in boca raton. 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:35 | 4422645 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

While sitting next to Simon, no doubt.......

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 06:02 | 4423160 Drifter
Drifter's picture

I've seen a definite trend away from substance toward sensationalism, and have speculated it might be due to lack of substantial financial news to report. 

In 2008 - 2009 when the final big looting spree (bailouts and QE) was starting up there was lots of great stuff to report because it was all new. 

But we're 5 years into it now, it's routine, every TBTF is insolvent, surviving on ZIRP QE rehypothecation market manipulation and similar financial fraud while the pretty-much-ignored economy sinks further into depression. Crony capitalism used to be the exception, now it's the rule, blatant, in your face, all over the place.  Middle class continues bleeding out, zerocare made the diagnosis terminal, just a matter of time till monitors go flatline.

In 2008 - 2009 America's transition to a banana republic was just starting and there was lots to report.  Now it's routine and there's not much to report.   A president morphing into a dictator was news back then, now the transition is complete, firmly in the dictator role, hi ho, down the boring road to oblivion we go.

Like every other banana republic looting spree, markets go up as the currency goes down, the 1% prosper while the 99% sink into poverty.  How may ways can you report that?

There won't be much substantial to report till US dollar collapses and loses reserve status, but that might be a couple years away. 

Meanwhile I suppose ZH will fill its pages with emotional stuff like gloom and doom, msm bashing, bitcoin, etc, and sensationalizing sub-1% market moves of course.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:25 | 4422380 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Answers to the title question:

So they can have a foreign bank account in which to deposit their earnings. (Thanks, FATCA!)

So they can have a foreign bank account with their non-Murican spouse and said non-Murican spouse doesn't have to suffer the indignity of the IRS, CIA, FBI, NSA, and other motley gubmint alphabet soup snoops sniffing through his/her undergarments.

So they can live in a nation that won't be bankrupted by cronyism, corruption, and the Free Shit Army.

So they can live in a nation that isn't overrun with nannies who tell them what to eat, drink, smoke, fuck, watch, listen to, and read.

So they can get a passport that will allow them to travel to nations where they won't be stoned, shot, or beheaded at first sight like would happen to a hapless Murican.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422466 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Sounds like my kind of nation. Where the fuck is it?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422480 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I'm still looking.  I'll let ya know when I find it.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:25 | 4422382 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

US government renounced its citizens long ago and has made them subjects and slaves.  Time to leave.  

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:59 | 4422865 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

FYI, as point in US Law:  All US Citizens and Lawful Permanent Aliens (LPRs) aka Green Card holders are "US Subjects".  Technically this means that they are offered the full protection on the US Government and its laws, and are subject to its laws and taxation.

Likewise, a "British Subject" is a Subject of the British Crown, of which QE2 is its Head/Monarch.

Bugger all has changed since the Middle Ages or since the early 1900s, when Europeans got rid of the Monarchs.  They simply reformed and came in the back door -- as Corporations.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4422397 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

What a bunch of pussies. Stay here and protect the motherland.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4422406 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Motherland is nazispeak.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:36 | 4422429 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

No, Nazi is refer to "Fatherland", and communist is refer to "Motherland". Uber fascist state, worst of breed, is refer to "Homeland".

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:17 | 4422595 graneros
graneros's picture

Boris many may think you speak a lot of crap but it is always right on the money. Or as they say in the Motherland; Boris speaks is on top of ruble.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:39 | 4422437 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Are you sure you want to fuck with me?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:45 | 4422444 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture


I'm scared Bubba Joe United Statean patriot.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:03 | 4422552 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

It's actually a Republic. I'm 4th generation in a country called the United States of America. This has always been my home & land that I possess. Don't fucking start your political correctness terminology with me.

Did I mention, my great-great grandfather came from Scotland to become an American citizen. I’m just a legacy of his efforts.


Very happy to see the pussies bolt out of our country!


What's your American background?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:11 | 4422572 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

I'm not the unhappy holder of a United Statean passport.

Never been to USSA. Don't plan to.

I'm a Romanian that at first bought the propaganda about how "free and developed" the West is until reality opened my eyes.

I troll fuckers on ZeroHedge because apparently no one does it anymore.


On a serious note, I respect your Scottish roots. And your desire to suicide yourself fighting the Obamator drones.

After discovering George Galloway, I changed my attitude towards Scotts. So good luck to you defending your property.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:19 | 4422603 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

It's alright. I have never been to Russia, don't ever plan on it. On a brighter note, a good exchange of debating goes a long way. No hard feelings. Enjoy your evening!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:19 | 4422773 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


I'm not the unhappy holder of a United Statean passport.

Ah, could sell that one is happy holder of United Statean 'american' passport.

Does it read as it reads?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:25 | 4422787 akak
akak's picture

It is the case that US 'american' passportocitizenism is sometimes the mattering thing.

But forcing this blame to the exterior would lead to the ability to self-indict, and that would be contradictorial for US 'american' citizens.  So the goat must be scraped elsewhere.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:36 | 4422644 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

Only Scots left in Scotland are gay boy socialists. Can't wait for them to vote for independence and then go bankrupt. That's what happens when you base your politics on the film 'Braveheart'

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:42 | 4422674 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Did they call your great-great grandfather names when he left Scotland?  Why didn't he stay and fight?   

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:26 | 4422898 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Probably because the war was over and my last name dates back to the 1500’s. Hmmm, let’s do the math.

Ships, cannonballs, armor, arrows,, swords and catapults were the technology of that war. Castle still sits in the highlands today.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:10 | 4422742 Watchingtheweasels
Watchingtheweasels's picture

There were a whole lot of Germans in Berlin in 1935 whose great-great-great-great grandfathers were German and whose fathers fought for the Kaiser in the Great War.  By 1945, I'd imagine that a whole lot of them wished they had been pussies who had bolted out of the country.  North Korea is a shining example of just how bad things can get before a federal dictatorship rolls over, dies, and releases its choke hold on the people.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:44 | 4422455 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"Homeland" is gender-free speak:  No Mother, no Father. 

Typical USSA:  The State is your parent.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:40 | 4422440 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I have only one obligation, and that is to protect my family.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:41 | 4422450 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

In Peru? Think you're safe?

You're just the fat juicy white gringo there, just ready to be impaled by the locals.


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422465 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I'm just big boned!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:47 | 4422482 negative rates
negative rates's picture


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:30 | 4422398 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Because they still can.


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:35 | 4422401 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

President Screw:

"That's the good thing, as a president I can do whatever I want"

With this asshole in office, I can hardly blame people for getting out while they can.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:30 | 4422402 Ulterior
Ulterior's picture

will trade Lithuanian passport for american, PM me with offers

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:36 | 4422430 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Is this a Nigerian-type of a scam?

Why would you on your free will would go to prison USSA?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:39 | 4422436 Ulterior
Ulterior's picture

hedging life

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:21 | 4422471 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

Hmm..or maybe you're an United Statean attempting to Prison Break from USSA.

Best of luck to you then..

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:30 | 4422403 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

Wow 2000 people renounced their citizenship! Thanks Michael Snyder, king of the douchebags!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:37 | 4422422 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

The real numbers are much, much higher.  I've been reading up on this topic a great deal lately (wishful thinking, I guess?) and I've come across countless accounts of people who have renounced but have not been tabulated in the official numbers.  It looks really bad if it gets out that people are leaving the nation in droves, so they tend to report only the big ones, like Eduardo Saverin, to make all renouncers look like tax cheats, thieves, and terrrrrists.

The only true way to judge how many people are renouncing is to attempt to renounce yourself, and see just how many months it takes to get your "voluntary" exit interview.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422459 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Affirmative, Captain

Renouncing on a formal basis is completely optional. Many just fucking leave it all behind...including all of Uncle Sam's red fucking tape. 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:32 | 4422413 NOZZLE
NOZZLE's picture

The idea that you would write a check to the treasury so that some moron from Chicago who flunked the bar exam and was bounced out of a minority window dressing job could stuff her face with lobsters on your money is disgusting enough.  What is really disgusting is the idea that some moron from Kenya who had to be given a special pass on his character and fitness review could stuff his anus with Reggie Love on AF! on your money.

I would like to write something intelligent along the lines of "If you resided in a foriegn country and earned any amount of income in that country and spent less than 30 days inside the US, 100% of your income is excluded from taxation".  That being a legal impossibility, just leave.  If you truly are unable to live and earn money in a foriegn nation without exposing your existence to the IRS, you aren't trying hard enough.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:38 | 4422431 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Maybe they want to be able open a bank account in the country they live, to have the ability to earn more than 0.01% on their life savings, and to not be double taxed on their income.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:22 | 4422596 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Who the downed this? Dickshits. That you President Jacksauce?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:43 | 4422462 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Check out Gold tonight !!!

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422474 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Yep, gonna sell an ounce and by my fucking dog some decent china. 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:46 | 4422478 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

You forgot "bitchezzz"

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:48 | 4422476 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Can't get an Ar-15 in New York because they are outlawed? Think again:

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:52 | 4422507 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Yeah, I read about that earlier.  What's the book on how quickly they modify the SAFE Act to include the newest incarnation of Assault Weapons of Doom?

Slightly OT:  Did y'all hear about the asshole anti-gun activist who got busted in an elementary school carrying a handgun?  And then claimed he "forgot [he] had it with [him]?"  So the dumbshit got arrested on a felony charge for a law he was active in getting passed, and if convicted, will lose his right to own a gun legally.  To quote Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!"

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:04 | 4422554 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I didn't see that one. Thanks for the link.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:59 | 4422532 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

When manufacturers and gun owners stop developing work-arounds to unconstitutional gun "laws" and openly defy them instead I will be impressed.........

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:05 | 4422561 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It takes more than gun manufactures to openly defy the gun laws. Last I checked New Yorkers rolled over and took it.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:49 | 4422492 The Merovingian
The Merovingian's picture

Sadly, none of the people I'd really like to see leave the country are doing it.  Perhaps if Obumbler decided to let people do it via Twitter it would catch on and go viral ... 

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:54 | 4422512 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If you're a Green Card (GC) holder, you can renew it, or let is expire after you've left the US.  That way, you can live like the rest of the planet and not worry about having foreign bank accounts -- including an account in the US.


Link to USCIS for Green Card replacement or renewal...

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 22:54 | 4422514 mijev
mijev's picture

I've been living overseas for four months now in Asia. I was pretty nervous making the move. Now I just wish I had done it years earlier.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:12 | 4422551 Leaf of Tree
Leaf of Tree's picture

You like them Vietnamese young boyz/girliez don't ya?

Be honest.

"I pay dolla', yu sucka may dick"


"Me du buzinezz with you vitnameze boi"


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:11 | 4422584 mijev
mijev's picture

Anyone who pays for that shit deserves what they get. It's all on tap for free.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:16 | 4422598 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Do you have a residence visa in your host country?

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:35 | 4422647 mijev
mijev's picture

No. I can extend after 90 days or just leave the country for 48 hours. Flights are ridiculously cheap. I haven't thought about renouncing citizenship yet. But I do have a second passport.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:50 | 4422690 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Making a logical choice to renounce your US citizenship to keep the long arm of the US government out of your life would make you a pussy.  It has been determined here many times by people who get to decide what is a patriot. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:19 | 4422772 mijev
mijev's picture

I get to decide what i determine patriotism to be.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:12 | 4422750 Magnum
Magnum's picture

I don't care for the 48 hour leave deal but I guess it works.  After you leave do you get another 90 days on return or is it less?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:18 | 4422763 mijev
mijev's picture

I could apply for permanent residency, but I like the idea of being forced to try out somewhere new every few months.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:17 | 4422594 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Michael Snyder is a douchebag author, the number is not "staggering" and I would guess that NONE of the people who renounced actually packed up and left the country with the intention of renouncing.  Those who did it, were already overseas, and they want to escape the burden of the IRS.  Not a huge mystery.

The focus should not be on the 3000 American wives who are doing what their foreign husbands tell them to do.  It should be the larger issue of FATCA making it impossible for Americans to conduct business overseas.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:22 | 4422895 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I rather suspect that the shrewder "tactical move" to outright Renunciation is to simply (a) move abroad, (b) get Permanent Residency, (c) maybe a  second citizenship, and then (d) send in a "Basic" Tax Filing to the IRS each year.  The IRS won't and can't double-tax you, since you'll be already taxed by the Sovereign in whose country you reside.

That way, you get rid of the Down-side, but still have the Up-side in your pocket.  E.g.

The Sovereign Man (Simon Black) -- for all his posturing and promoting of renouncing citizenship -- has not renounced his yet.  Apparently -- and I quite: "The downside does not outweigh the upside" [in his case].

Switching the usage of original citizenship to secondary citizenship seems to be the thing to do.  95% of the problem solved.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:40 | 4422924 Tinky
Tinky's picture

That's a reasonable perspective, but only up until the point that capital controls spiral out of control, at least for those with a certain level and/or types of assets.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:32 | 4422909 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

One of my neighbors is a Green Card guy, who's "had enough".  He is making plans to leave this summer -- on his terms.

As he put it (more or less): "The US is a country for the very rich & powerful, and the young & healthy.  As you get older, if the US Health/Sick-care doesn't put you in the Poor House or bankrupt you, the Education Industry will.  Failing that, the Elder Care industry will take the rest of whatever savings or home equity you may have left.  Its police act like Nazis, and the IRS is more scary than the Sheriff of Nottingham.  Fuck that!"

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:28 | 4422627 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth... is their right, it is their duty, to throw of such government..."


"One lamp if by land, two if by sea, none if they are already here."

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:07 | 4422737 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Fullerton, California, Kelly Thomas, anyone?

Waco, Texas, 80 innocents, anyone?

Culpeper, Virginia, 54-year old Patricia Cook, anyone?

Seattle, Washington, John Williams, anyone?

and on and on...

No need to look over there, the evil is here.


"Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".


Mon, 02/10/2014 - 23:49 | 4422686 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Once you lose everything, society just wants you to go away."

The criminals of the DC US government and their rapacious bankster masters exist only to steal and kill. They do this via extortion, taxes, hamstrung regulations that benefit big business, and from 'printing' price inflation. They live off your efforts, and when that is not enough, they use your children to take from foreigners.

They steal from your wallet. They steal from your capital. They steal from your savings. They steal your home. They steal your children. They steal your morality and sanity. So one does not "lose everything," but has it stolen away by the pols. crats and banksters.


They are criminals. Reject paying, obeying and playing along with criminals.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:18 | 4422764 esum
esum's picture


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:28 | 4422795 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Don't leave, organize!


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 00:44 | 4422827 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

For every US citizen that leaves the US, there are 10,000 third world people wanting to take their place.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:03 | 4422870 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Newsflash:  These people are coming anyway -- regardless if you leave or stay. 

Plan accordingly.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:00 | 4422862 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Global pawns.

Truth be told I'm an American. And as accurate as this read happens to be, I don't want to leave this mess for the next citizen to inherit (especially the youngest ones) with a "wink" when we all to some extent have contributed to it's demise and allowed it to for far too long to abuse so many other Countries we might now be seeking refuge in.

At some point you have to pay your dues and make right what's gone so terribly wrong.

As I've said here before.  You may run anywhere you wish, but tethered to this Nation that you may at one time have had pride in, helped build and paid taxes to will now be made worse off with the most dangerous remnants of unstable deranged leadership in the World.  Left unchecked they will do the unthinkable if no one intercedes to stop them.

The problems and complexities of what we’ve inherited living in and supporting a misguided superpower and the choices we’ve allowed those in power to make in our names carries a special burden and price that no one in prior generations have had to deal with until now.  Those choices and that burden will more than likely follow you wherever you decide to go.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:30 | 4422908 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I got a call from a friend asking me what gun he should buy.  He already has a shitpile of guns but not quite as many as I do. He has never been married so he has cash.  He was looking at a SIG but I recommended a Springfield Armory long slide if you can find one.(you can't) 

It's time for some gun porn.  This is one of the most beautiful guns I have ever seen.  I already have two Springfields but I do not have this one.  Just look at it.

I am not leaving and I will have that gun.  Forget women, that gun is beautiful.  P.O.R... I will just tell you that they are 2K on a good day.


Oh yeah, and we aren't leaving.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 02:41 | 4422999 European American
European American's picture

"Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. 

One of my girlfriends.

She met the most stringent and accuracy requirements ever demanded in a combat women. 

But it's her older sister that really gives me a rush.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 03:16 | 4423028 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Hell yes!  I like the HKs.  I am just a stupid Merican though.  Those are cool but they just are not a Springer.  I will take all of them!  You have to admit that the Springer listed is just sublime.  Not too many guns in the world look like that one does.  Yes, that one is a she.  Perhaps that is just what I like.  I do not need any more guns to be honest but I want that one.  I want the guns you suggested as well but that 45 is awesome.  I have a Super Redhawk.  That's an awesome gun too.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:18 | 4424650 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

I have enough guns already also. And like you, i just want ooooonnnnneeeeee more! i'm thinking i need a 308 black rifle. So, i'm checking out the ar10 and the FAL. I'm leaning towards the FAL SA58 PARA but the extra 10 lbs is weighing on my already large rutsack. :(

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:06 | 4424862 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It's too bad you can't get a Sig 751 series in the USSA. However, you might want to look at the Sig 716 series-- if want something light (there are even SBR/supressed options) and that works very reliably right out of the box. Unless you are really into tinkering and building your own guns (in which case avoid both SIG and HK) since the AR10 platform is not actually interchangeable between all manufacturers like the AR15 platform is.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:57 | 4422957 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Instead of leaving the country Americans should take their country back, perhaps things may get just a tiny little better.


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 01:59 | 4422960 European American
European American's picture

I'll take my chances "out at sea", i.e. 53 Nautor Swan.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 03:20 | 4423035 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

Useful Spanish phrase if you are to relocate to Purto Rico : 

No me mate por favor (Please do not kill me).

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 03:49 | 4423068 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

How much can I get paid to copy and paste other articles and slap together trash contributor posts like this one? 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 13:59 | 4424308 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture


Tue, 02/11/2014 - 04:06 | 4423082 Red Herring
Red Herring's picture

All right, here comes the rant first, and then some random thoughts.  This is mainly aimed at the US citizens on this blog.  Personal opinions, of course, but will be glad to debate.

First off, those of you who are bringing up their willingness to stay and fight, rather than leave - your choice, just like there are some who make a different choice.  To each is own, and to berate someone because he made a different choice, is nothing different that arguing over abortion.  Both options are on the table, let it be.

Second, the whole notion of patriotism.  Having extensively travelled around the world, I haven't seen a lot of people openly dsplaying their patriotism, other that places like USA, Russia and China. Previously, patriotism ran high during major wars, so the populaton will get behind the agenda of the ruling class.  Having patriotism as a defining moment of someone's approach to life is no different than having a religion, i.e. nothing wrong with it, but it is a personal choice, and is based on a BELIEF.  So it is only  acceptable to other people who share this belief, and is not a universal truth (unless, of course, there is a direct outside threat to a country that you currently reside in and shae its values).

Third, passports and the idea of being a "citizen" is a fairly new construct.  If my memory serves me correct, people with means could travel fairly freely all the way up to World War I.  Yes, I recognise there were papers issued to individuals before, but this international system of having any individual identified as a "citizen" first and "individual" second is new.

Fourth, American Revolution was not a revolution in the sense of French, Russian, etc. revolutions.  It was a WAR OF INDEPENDENCE against an outside threat to the inhabitants of a land mass, not unlike an insurgency in Iraq, or Resistance in France during World War II.  Just because it is called a revoluton, it may not necessarily be that.  Not sure when the term was first coined, actually.

Fifth, those who liken a possible uprising of pissed-off US citizens to overthrow the current system of government to the American Revolution, and point out that only 3% f the population supported it, and that was enough, miss the bigger picture. First of all, such an uprising will be unprecedented, no such revolt has ever occured in history of humanity, mainly due to the levels of indifference of a majority of american population, the abundance of the members of the FSA, the huge volume of privately-held firearms (remember, it is not just the 3% of independent-thinking libertarians who own guns), and a huge land mass that needs to be won over and controlled.  Remember, after th "successful" Russian Revluton of 1917, the bolsheviks fought a blody terror-filled Civil War on its own soil until 1924, and then continued to purge the undesirable elements all the way until 1941, stat of World War II for USSR.

I think that if such an uprising does happen, it will soon turn into a Civil War, and none of those have ever produced a good outcome.  Unfortnately, this may be the ONLY viable option left for the USA to shake its ruling class off.  Hopefully, it will not be replaced with more of the same.


Now, onto some random practical thoughts for those who definitely decided to go and are contemplating on a suitable place, for whatever reasons (tax avoidance, freedom, sexual adventures, practice of martial arts, access to clean water, Fukushima fallout, etc.)

Let's agree, for starters, that there are three major populaton groups who may consider getting the hell out of USA: the well-to-do with high net-worth of $1M and up; the middle class; and the lower-eaning group.  The welfare recepients will not want to move, most likely.

The high net-worth individuals have more optons, just through their financial means, to secure a permanent residency and decent living conditions in a number of places.  For all answers, ask Simon Black. 

The lower earning group have their options limited to available funds and current skill set.  They, in my opinion, will do better in SE Asia, due to lots of people where one gets lost, a fairly thriving black market, where they can get a job outside of the government all-seeing eye, and a lower cost of living.  Europe is also possible, but more difficult, plus the language barrier will be harder.  SE Asia, on the other hand, especially places that foreigners frequent, will be more tolerable to this.  Of course, one will need to learn the local language and customs, as DCRB often tells us, and be cognisent of the fact that you will stick out like a sore thumb, if any shit starts happening.  Cannot comment on the majority of Central/South America, although Panama is also a very good place, from my experience, to get lost into, and fairl cheap if away from Panama City.

If I was doing the contemplating, I woud cross off Africa completely off the list, due to its never-ending political struggles and countless wars. 

So we are left with the middle class.  If you have a degree in something meaningful, plus language skills, try your luck in Europe, Russia or South America - some companies are looking for specialists with English language skills.

If you do not have language skills, but do have a skill, then Canada, Australia or New Zealand still offer a good option.  You will have to look at the skills required on their immigration website, apply with some documents proving that you do indeed posess a skill, pay some money, wait for the assessement, and get your permanent residency.  In Australia specifically, some of the needed skills listed included a wide number of trades (carpentry, masonry, electricians), some hospitality and service roles (hairdressers, for example - this is actually an option for the lower-earning segment of society), and, of course, doctors, engineers and the like.

The options are still there, just put some effort into looking at them.   

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:42 | 4425789 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Re: "... American Revolution was not a revolution in the sense of French, Russian, etc. revolutions.  It was a WAR OF INDEPENDENCE against an outside threat ....  Not sure when the term was first coined, actually."

I always wondered about this.  

Turns out this was the original great historical swindle.  The story of our revolution as we learn it in our history books starts with the war to defend the revolution, but leaves out the revolution itself!  

Must read: "The First American Revolution, before Lexington and Concord" by Ray Raphael.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 04:46 | 4423111 Martel
Martel's picture

The amount of people renouncing the U.S. citizenship is basically nothing. Growth rate is impressive, though, and things like FATCA surely provide an incentive. Since the U.S. is gradually slipping into a police state, I expect this window of opportunity to close in the coming years. They're not going to make it impossible to renounce, but e.g. exit tax could be made even more punitive, visiting the country ever again denied etc.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 04:59 | 4423127 GrahamPink
GrahamPink's picture

You people should be talking about something important, this issue isn't it.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:57 | 4423251 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

Considering what the Europeans who came to North America searching for "freedom" did to the natives I doubt the descendents of those people would be welcome anywhere if they tried to relocate in large numbers. Of course, it is a different situation if you are wealthy and move your wealth to the new place.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 13:51 | 4424278 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

those natives killed our children

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:03 | 4424319 akak
akak's picture

Considering the brutality and atrocities routinely committed by those same North American natives against other North American natives before the coming of those supposedly uniquely rapacious and warlike Europeans, I think your crocodile tears are rather disingenuous as well as hypocritical.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 08:37 | 4423299 kenezen
kenezen's picture

The natural course of these political disasters that appear in America are generally similar. In Venezuela there was a wealthy class, middle income class and poor. The poor were primarily Indian descent and poor Spanish descendants plus illegal immigration from even poorer countries. The Capitalistic government under their old Constitution was good for upper class and middle class.  Most aspects of the middle class were good but growing poorer as the economy was recently at that time weak. Hugo Chavez came in and promised the poor wide distribution of wealth. He was elected by a slim margin. Immediately the business sector did worse. The middle class almost disappeared. the Currency's purchasing power went down and the Oil revenues went to the Government for sustenance unemployment and social programs. Private enterprise suffered both small and large business.The Constitution was nullified.

Hugo Chavez 's rhetoric was always one of demeaning his legislature and glorifying Socialism, government programs and central Government programs. No legitimate elections were held that wasn't declared full of fraudulent votes. The Central Government became all powerful and in control of peoples private and public lives.

He demanded full control of government by his own dictate.  Venezuela went down in wealth and stature. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 09:25 | 4423370 Duude
Duude's picture

Its a big jump percentage-wise, but its still only 1130 people giving up their passports in 2013. Rhode Island lost about that many people.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 13:46 | 4424269 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

if it werenT so expensive more would renounce.

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