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Another Bitcoin Flash Crash Imminent? Second Major Exchange Follows MtGox In Suspending Withdrawals

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Bitcoin plunged another 15% or so from its bounce highs this morning as volatility has picked up dramatically in the virtual currency. The reasons are numerous: JPMorgan has come out with a scathing attack - "bitcoin looks like an innovation worth limiting exposure to;" CoinDesk reports that major exchanges are under a "massive and concerted attack" by a bot system - creating a "fog of confusion" over the system; and perhaps most critically, BitStamp has followed Mt.Gox and halted withdrawals "due to inconsistent results from their bitcoin wallet" - due to the DDoS attacks...

 

 

Basically the main reason why BTC crashed in the past few days was the realization that MtGox had finally halted withdrawals, leading to an escalating blame game in which the finger pointing between the exchanges and the actual bitcoin source code (here and here) meant that something is wrong within the system. This lead to the previously noted flash crash in Bitcoin yesterday:

Alas, that may have been just the beginning when a few hours later, we just learned that the next major Bitcoin exchange, Bitstamp, has just halted Bitcoin withdrwawls, blaming a major DDoS for the suspension.

First, here is JPM's latest hit piece:

Unlike other asset markets, FX rarely welcomes newcomers for the simple reason that launching a widely-used currency traditionally required creating a sovereign or supra-sovereign entity with a central bank to issue the unit and manage its supply over time.

Hence the audacity of bitcoin: it is a stateless, virtual and peer-to-peer currency, so exists only digitally and is associated with no sovereign, central bank or bank payments system. It is also incredibly illiquid extremely volatile and often caricatured.

After a brief Economics 101 refresher on the required functions of money, this research note addresses various frequently-asked questions around this virtual currency: what is it; how is it created and transferred; what are its advantages and disadvantages for corporates and investors compared to fiat currencies; is it a serious contender for a global payments system; and can it prove more durable long-term than other somewhat fixed-supply currencies like gold.

At the risk of sounding like a luddite, bitcoin looks like an innovation worth limiting exposure to. As a medium of exchange, unit of account and store of value, it is vastly inferior to fiat currencies. Since governments are quite unlikely to accord it the status of legal tender, bitcoin or other virtual currencies would not reach the scale and scope to render them worthwhile for widespread commerce, payments or investment.

Bitcoin’s greatest appeal is the apparent cheapness of peer-to-peer fund transfers, though it is unclear how economical these transactions truly are when the virtual world interacts with the real world. As provocative as its underlying technology may be, bitcoin’s practical role may be no larger than that of an emerging markets currency subject to exchange controls.

For corporates, bitcoin’s appeal is two-fold: no or low transaction costs from a peer-to-peer payments system, and the potential brand recognition from trialing a new technology. These advantages must be weighed against extreme illiquidity and volatility, both of which impede risk management. All-in transaction costs may also be higher once the fees from transferring bitcoins to fiat currencies are included.

Investors normally avoid an instrument with bitcoin's trading properties. The unit's main investment appeal is the potential long-term price rise due to limited supply, much like some commodities when the market balance tightens.

But more importantly, the scapegoating begins - DDoS attacks (via CoinDesk):

A “massive and concerted attack” has been launched by a bot system on numerous bitcoin exchanges, Andreas Antonopoulos has revealed.

 

The chief security officer of Blockchain.info said a DDoS attack is taking Bitcoin’s transaction malleability problem and applying it to many transactions in the network, simultaneously.

 

So as transactions are being created, malformed/parallel transactions are also being created so as to create a fog of confusion over the entire network, which then affects almost every single implementation out there,” he added.

And the culmination: BitStamp has halted withdrawals:

Dear Bitstamp users

 

Bitstamp’s exchange software is extremely cautious concerning Bitcoin transactions. Currently it has suspended processing Bitcoin withdrawals due to inconsistent results reported by our bitcoind wallet, caused by a denial-of-service attack using transaction malleability to temporarily disrupt balance checking. As such, Bitcoin withdrawal processing will be suspended temporarily until a software fix is issued.No funds have been lost and no funds are at risk.

 

This is a denial-of-service attack made possible by some misunderstandings in the Bitcoin wallet implementation. These misunderstandings have simple solutions that are being implemented as we speak, and we’re confident everything will be back to normal shortly.

 

Withdrawals which failed on the 10th and 11th of February will be canceled and the amounts added back to the customer account balances.We will communicate any further developments regarding this issue.Thank you for your understanding!

 

Best regards

 

Bitstamp team

Best regards indeed.

 

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Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:59 | 4424538 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Oh no... 

Paging Fonestar!

A DEFCON 5 moment, serious spin is needed... 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:58 | 4424541 quintago
quintago's picture

LOL. Winkelvossed

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:01 | 4424553 takeaction
takeaction's picture

This Bitcoin is an absolute disaster...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:02 | 4424557 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

TOLD YOU SO!

Gold bitchezzz.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:06 | 4424583 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Forget Virtual BitCoinz, Buy REAL GOLD...

FLASH FLASH FLASH ...

YELING Has ""NO GOLD"" For The GERMANNS!
(PS... Chinee Beat You To It...)

.......... Peter Boehringer of the German Precious Metals Society and the Repatriate Our Gold campaign reports today, with the help from the German newspaper Handelsblatt and translation from gold researcher and GATA consultant Koos Jansen, that the German Bundesbank has had two schedules for repatriating its gold from foreign vaults and has retreated from both of them.

Handelsblatt has reported: "Due to 'logistical challenges,' the Bundesbank no longer feels bound by its promise to the Bundestag."

Boehringer's commentary is headlined "Bundesbank Changes Gold Repatriation Schedule" and it's posted at Jansen's Internet site, In Gold We Trust, here:

http://www.ingoldwetrust.ch/bundesbank-changes-gold-repatriation-schedul...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:08 | 4424600 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Nooo0oOOoo0oO0o!!!!!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:18 | 4424623 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Thinking that a free currency competing against the reserve petrodollar would go unpunished is pure stupidity.  Market manipulation in all financials won't change until the balance of power changes to we the people.

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:17 | 4424645 fonestar
fonestar's picture

They're all powerful man!  Just accept it and surrender you little whiny biatchez!!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:19 | 4424646 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

bitcoin run

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:21 | 4424671 fonestar
fonestar's picture

How is it a run?  Notice the article states "another 15% or so".  I guess 80% plunge grabs clicks if not standing up to cursory fact checking?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:34 | 4424722 Bizaro World
Bizaro World's picture

We all appreciate your enthusiasm fonestar, but come on man, is it really a suprise that an all digital currency is abled to be slapped around by multiple sources that even the exchanges can't immediately pinpoint?  Just wait until central bankers start taking over the attacks as happens in paper PMs....then Biatchcoin will truly become worth less.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:38 | 4424739 pods
pods's picture

Then Bitcoin is going to be like Ned Beatty scurrying up that hill. 

And we know how that turned out. <shudder>

pods

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:44 | 4424766 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin nice at $644.. could roll down into $500s but could just as easily head back into $800s.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:48 | 4424781 pods
pods's picture

I mean, it could be $200 or $10k.  Or somewhere in between.

If you can get them, and they aren't stolen.  And you have to be on the cutting edge of storage and constantly move them to ensure you don't get ripped off.

Sounds like a lot of fun.  

Gold just sits there.  I like that a lot more.

pods

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:54 | 4424805 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You mean like Gaddafi's gold in London just sat there?

If you don't feel comfortable doing data backups don't buy Bitcoin.  If you believe the sun is going out or we are heading into a global ice age, don't buy Bitcoin.  If you plan on dying in a shoot-out with federal agents anyway, don't buy Bitcoin.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:04 | 4424855 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Looks like imade a (rare) timely cash out. My gold survived the last ddos attack.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:25 | 4424935 zaphod
zaphod's picture

So did my bitcoins, none of mine are effected by this.

And so are the effected transactions, the same bitcoins are still successfully sent to the same addresses. 

It's just a tracking issue for 3rd parties who implemented their own (bad) code. To correct the tracking issue is simple and straight forward, most have done so already. This attack is forcing the rest to fix as well.

The correct takeaway is that if this is the best those who want to attack the system can do, bitcoin is fine.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:02 | 4425078 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Satoshi = Gavin Andresen, chief scientist at the Bitcoin Foundation who is also a bitcoin core developer

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:53 | 4425283 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

“I expect things will go back to normal and the honey badger of money can continue showing its resilience,” he said.

“The death of bitcoin has been prematurely announced so many times already that the obvious conclusion is that bitcoin is far more resilient than its critics would like to think. I am confident that in a few days, those who predicted the death of bitcoin will once again be proven wrong”

 

 

 

Yawwwwnnnnn.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:25 | 4425441 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

I bought mine at $ 199 so I am still ok.   BTFD !!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:47 | 4425536 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

"suspending withdrawals....'

Isn't that EXACTLY what everyone's "worst case scenario" was  with banks/fiat???

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:07 | 4425644 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It has never been a concern of mine.

fonestar can remain insane longer than markets can remain irrational.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:22 | 4425711 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"fonestar can remain insane longer than markets can remain irrational."

Boy, ain't that the truth...lol.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:52 | 4425774 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

You don't have to worry about suspended withdrawls, flash crashes, or Internet outages when you are your own central bank. BitCoin may not have middle men taking their cut, but there is no shortage of intermediaries who can slow your roll.

I fail to see why anyone who understands the systemtic risk to the financial system would trust a cyber asset of any kind. Speculate if you want, but don't cry when you get flambéd.

There's only one type of asset that protects from both inflation and default. Hard assets that can't be reproduced; that are durable, divisible, portable, fungible, and we may as well throw tangible on that list. Nothing but metals for the win.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 03:18 | 4427146 digi
digi's picture

Everything you said that was positive applies to bitcoin, I actually thought you were referring to bitcoin in the first sentence.

"You don't have to worry about suspended withdrawls, flash crashes, or Internet outages when you are your own central bank." That's the main idea behind bitcoins creation

can't be reproduced, check

durable, check

divisible, check

portable, check

fungible, check

Guess bitcoins aren't so bad afterall.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:03 | 4425089 Stackers
Stackers's picture

I've been patiently waiting for my sub $500 buying opturtunity for months.

 

And of course JPM hates bitcoin. Fractional reserve banks jealously guard the right to create credit/money from thin air fiercely

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:04 | 4425335 warish
warish's picture

What would a denial of service look like for gold, feds at your door with guns drawn ?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:08 | 4424869 pods
pods's picture

How about something much simpler?

Like, I don't think Bitcoin is a viable store of my surplus capital?

pods

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:02 | 4425077 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's what gold is for.  Bitcoin is for transacting.  Your wallet is like your bank account.  You don't keep all of your savings in your bank account, do you?

Paying with bitcoin is so easy, and it feels great to make payments without getting your pocket picked by bankers.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:21 | 4425151 giggler321
giggler321's picture

How can you say "without getting your pocket picked by bankers" when in truth if it wasn't convertable into dollars, made so by bankers so they can manipulate the price of it, you'd probably have nothing now but numbers in something someone else calls a digital wallet?

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:46 | 4425267 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can trade them for goods and services directly.  You can also use a service like localbitcoins.com to trade them for dollars without any bank participation in the transaction.

Banks are involved with the exchanges due to money laundering laws.  The simple solution is to NOT USE THEM.  And you don't have to.

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:21 | 4425152 pods
pods's picture

I agree on the principle of it. But there is too much uncertainty about it at the moment to risk it.  And those who want to hurry people into BTC are pumpers who don't want a stable exchange that WOULD make it worthwhile to transact in BTC but want a bloww off top to get out and make their coin.
So it is clearly a conflict of interest between those who like the stateless aspect of it (which would be me) and those who want it to shoot to the moon. 

Not seeing the paying with BTC avoiding getting your pockets picked by bankers. Seems that goods are PRICED in USD and you merely transact in BTC. You are still getting killed by inflation of the currency that the goods are priced in, are you not?  I have seen discounts for paying in BTC at severa places, if that is what you mean and that would give you an advantage, but if I want to buy something I don't want to watch the BTC charts and pick the daily top to purchase something.

Too volatile for me.

pods

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:58 | 4425303 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why don't you buy $100 worth, then?

If you analyzed it for yourself, you would see that it is useful, even if it is volatile.  You can buy things with it without paying a tithe to the banks AND you can move money anywhere on the planet in an instant.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:46 | 4425253 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

just give it a few more months. Your digi-wallet will get picked soon enough.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:57 | 4425312 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not really.  There has been plenty of opportunity, and they have yet to do it.

The system was made in such a way that you can't really steal on a systematic basis.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 20:00 | 4425867 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

But any 14 year old with a zombie-bot army can crash the whole system.  Doesn't inspire confidence. Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme for the 21st century.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 20:32 | 4426001 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Except they can't.  You don't understand the system, so you can't make any relevent predictions.

If a botnet could take down bitcoin, it would have, long ago.  The only thing that can take down bitcoin is to gain PERMANENT control of 51% of the miners AND keep them running FOREVER.  If they ever let up, it just reverts back to what it was before.  It's an exercise in futility.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 22:33 | 4426461 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin's strides to increase security and combat hacking trickles down into all aspects of the online world.  For instance, Bitcoin was the first to expose a serious flaw in Google's Android system used by many, many other platforms besides Bitcoin.  Google quickly acknowledged the flaw and fixed it, increasing security for everybody.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:49 | 4425544 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

You're "wallet" just got picked!!!!

GET IT ?

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 03:40 | 4427167 Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

Dude you dont know shit and it shows

Gaddafi's gold was not stored in fucking england bitch

It was all over LIbja and some in other african states

Thats why North Atlantic Terrorist Organization

had to bomb the shit out of Libja in order

to pave the way for the USSA army thiefs

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:53 | 4424813 BC6
BC6's picture

It costs approximately $5 to dig an ounce of silver out of the ground in my backyard even though I live on a 2nd floor building.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:27 | 4424943 pods
pods's picture

Methman?  Oh the memories!

pods

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:38 | 4425485 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Master Bates : remember him ? funny guy tho.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:53 | 4425556 mt paul
mt paul's picture

found a 5 $ bill

in the parking lot yesterday..

 

was looking for silver..

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:55 | 4424826 RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

Bitcoin nice at $644.. could roll down into $500s but could just as easily head back into $800s.

 

LOL!

You really dialed that in for me....It could go up or it could go down......

 

Thanks Dood!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:59 | 4424841 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Thank-you for choosing fonestar.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:50 | 4425023 lordylord
lordylord's picture

I laughed at that one too.  Children (e.g. Fonestar ) should be neither seen nor heard.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:03 | 4425084 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Funny, if he said it only went up, then he's a pumper.  If he said it could go up or down, he's useless.  If it is gong down, then why own it?

Whatever it takes, so long as you dismiss the idea without any actual thought or analysis.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:14 | 4425125 lordylord
lordylord's picture

My stance on bitcoin is the result of much thought and analysis.  Bitcoin is just being pumped by people who want to make money for doing no work and cheerleaded by angsty anonymous internet users with grandiose visions of a future where governements willingly allow the return of sound money and free markets.  The ONLY way  we get back to sound money and free markets is if a total collapse happens first.  At that time, some meaningless internet coins will be worthless.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:54 | 4425286 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"much thought and analysis"

"money for doing no work"

"angsty"

"grandiose"

Sounds much more like ad hominem than analysis, friend.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:58 | 4425306 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Except that friend came to the same conclusion that the rest of us did. Bitcoin is just another trap/distraction. It promises Hope without any real payout or any real effort.

 

It's a delusion Tmosley, that is the problem with it. It's not real, it never has been, and it never will be. It doesn't matter if 500 people start trading it, or a few thousand trade in it. It's still at the whim and folly of the Central Banks, and it always will be as long as the Central Banks stand.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:02 | 4425329 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The conclusions reached by people scared of competition are worthless.  You are scared, and as a result, your judgement is suspect.

The first thing I posted about bitcoin after I started learning about it was about my utter terror at the concept.

So I embraced it.  It makes freegold inevitable.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:11 | 4425358 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I'm scared? You're joking right? I thought Fonestar was delusional...

I know exactly where Bitcoin is going, and it's not anywhere pleasant. To abstract of a concept and in implimentation to actually do anything.

You're a joke TMosley, all of that time I actually thought you might have had something but here you are resorting to calling me scared when your delusion is falling apart for all to see. All you have is a lousy Ad-Hom.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:13 | 4425372 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Fissionable material was sought after in university basements to reproduce the free energy of the sun.   A noble endeavor, but the US government put a lot of money into it to make the atomic bomb.  Bitcoin is a great idea, but believe me...governments are salivating over the idea of a digital currency.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:45 | 4425517 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Gov't already has digital currency: USD. It rides on the Visa/PayPal/ACH/SWIFT networks, issued on a whim and tracked behind closed doors for all time.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:51 | 4425558 lordylord
lordylord's picture

True, but as of now I can still use cash at a gun shop, a coin shop, the super market, or a dark alley with total anonymity.  I'm sure the government doesn't like this.  That is where bitcoin or a form of bitcoin comes into play.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:25 | 4425683 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I'd prefer it if bullion and barter were used instead of USD in face-to-face transactions. 

General gist of your agrument is this: Using BTC instead of digital dollars will cause the removal of paper dollars, so keep using digital dollars?

Also curious JPM description of BTC's properties fails to mention fixed supply.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:02 | 4425332 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Sure, let me type out my whole thesis on bitcoin in the comment section.  I'm just calling it like I see it, buddy.  Go ahead and keep telling people that there is zero chance of bitcoin theft.  Keep telling people that there is zero chance of bitcoin regulation.  Keep telling people that there is zero chance that the government can touch you if you use bitcoin when/if made illegal.  Keep telling people bitcoin is deflationary and can only go up in value.  Keep telling people that their wealth is safe with bitcoin.  Keep buying buddy and cost average youself down to zero. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:09 | 4425361 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There is zero chance of Bitcoin theft.  There is zero chance of Bitcoin regulation.  Thre is zero chance the government can catch you.  People's wealth is safe with Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is deflationary and can only go up in value.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:12 | 4425367 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Except for when it doesn't, like the past two days :-P

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:00 | 4425610 Kidrobot
Kidrobot's picture

My signature using a purple highlighter is a one of a kind, never to be reproduced piece...doesn't mean it's worth squat.  All currencies are faith based, history and longevity being the foundation.  How can you be so sure of something that has yet to stand the test of time.  Besides...tmosley is backing it...shoulda seen how hard that chump pumped silver. THAT should be enough warning.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:48 | 4425809 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

the difference between silver and bitcoin is that silver was and still is a good long term bet, right now expecially with the GSR in the 60's

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:53 | 4425555 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

On the other hand, I laughed at FB at $28, also !

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:26 | 4425174 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Kind of like yesterday's..."All you need to know is that buttcoin is a buy at any price...blah, blah..."

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:26 | 4425187 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Who cares about the crashey spikey?  Just always buy more Bitcoin.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:30 | 4425206 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

you should change your name to The Junk King

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:55 | 4425301 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar wonders why he wastes time with you people when he could be talking family and neighbours into selling mineral water and spa products?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:07 | 4425346 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Feel free to leave then, you know the way out.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:11 | 4425380 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You first and leave this place to teh real anarcho-capitalist men here like fonestar.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:43 | 4425783 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Are you really'"Million (Fonestar) Bonus"???

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 20:09 | 4425914 LapseOfReason
LapseOfReason's picture

You are a parody of yourself. Can you please just shut the fuck up for a quick moment. You sound like a fucking lunatic. At its core Bitcoin is a great idea and I hope at some point it is properly validated and proven a viable method of transaction, but for now it crazily manipulated and subject to all the flalings of other such things attached to the Internet. A DDOS attack should not be able to manipulate the value of said "coin" as easily and as quickly as we have seen.

While I am at it, stop fucking referring to yourself as "fonestar says"...fuck man, so damn tiresome. I get it, you invested your life savings into a really cool ideas, but just like 3D printing it takes time, lots of time, to change a paradigm.

I had a really bad day and you simply annoy the fuck out me. Fuck off you frickin "Bob Dole says" muthfucka!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 22:33 | 4426460 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is merely pointing out the fact that this is a simple problem on an exchange and more recently a DDOS attack on another exchange.  Bitcoin is fine and will go to five, six, seven and astronomical figures.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:37 | 4424743 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Besides media FUD and DDOS attacks, there's little they can do about Bitcoin.  It's real, it exists, it's out there.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:41 | 4424757 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

It's real, it exists, it's out there.

So is herpes, but I don't see people clamoring to acquire it.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:14 | 4424889 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

why are upvotes to this comment blocked  tylerz

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:18 | 4424902 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Because it sucks.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:56 | 4425304 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Dogbreath,

 

Because the first words of the post are italicized. Oh and fuck you Fonestar you fuck. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:02 | 4425323 fonestar
fonestar's picture

no fuck you!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 19:40 | 4425776 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

no really Junk King,  Fuck You!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:00 | 4425322 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Upvotes and downvotes being blocked/not working on Zero Hedge is a far more disturbing development than the crash of bitcoin.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:02 | 4425327 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin did not crash dumbass.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:14 | 4425342 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Posters should disappear when their downvote ratio reaches the point Fonesex reached hundreds (thousands?) of downvotes ago.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:33 | 4426224 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

dogbreath...

 

It is a Blockquote. Even the Uparrow/Downarrow images are part of the Blockquote.

 

He is laughing at you.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:51 | 4424803 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Just keep telling yourself:  "The Titanic is unsinkable."  "The Titanic is unsinkable."  "The Titanic is unsinkable."  

The string quartet will keep you company.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:55 | 4424812 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is unstoppable!

HEIL SATOSHI!!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:18 | 4424901 whatthecurtains
whatthecurtains's picture

You are you're own worst enemy.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:44 | 4425255 wallstreetapost...
wallstreetaposteriori's picture

He really is... isn't he..  just makes it so easy to hate on him, but hey when your twelve and spoat net neutrality crypto currency garbage...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:48 | 4425264 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It's even worse when you're 35 and not 12.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:29 | 4424941 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

Hey, I got some rare tulip bulbs you'll just LOVE!

Get 'em now before the price goes higher!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:36 | 4424982 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Maybe we could work a trade?  I've got some Zerohead brains for sale.  Great condition as they've never been used before!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:17 | 4425397 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

poor ole fonestar has turned into million dollar bonus the down arrow king. A fall from grace into the basement right along with his  pet btc.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:25 | 4425437 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is $640 you moron.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 20:22 | 4425960 LapseOfReason
LapseOfReason's picture

I never post...you fucking douchebag

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:57 | 4424825 CH1
CH1's picture

I guess we could do it your way and keep repeating: The Fed is God, the Fed is God.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:52 | 4425039 pods
pods's picture

These are not mutually exclusive events.
I don't have to like the FED if I am distrustful of Bitcoins.

And I don't have to buy in to Bitcoins if I want to end the FED.

Too many pumpers and fluffers in BTC for me.  Same reason why I won't direct any IRA money into GLD or a "gold IRA."  Actually those are even worse as they give weight to paper gold.

pods

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:26 | 4425188 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Don't complicate it Pods...the ape becomes confused easily.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:37 | 4424745 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If JPM says to stay away, it MUST be good.

How does it feel standing on the side of Jamie, the Feds, and the Central Bankers, bitcoin bashers?  Will you do the same with their public statements on gold and silver?

Buy dollars!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:44 | 4424768 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Bitcoin is a terrible store of value"

 

                                       ~Jamie Dimon

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:54 | 4424809 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

J.D. might be a cock sucking shithead - but that doesn't mean that the Earth is flat just becasue he says it's round.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:00 | 4424840 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Might be?  I think that's been confirmed.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:23 | 4424972 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I meant it as a figure of speech.  

Are there really 4 people out there who think that if J.D. claims that the world is round, it means it's really flat?

PS  My favorite J.D. pic (Separated at birth?):  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rjsD3Io2dUc/TuVyypJ-bgI/AAAAAAAAD7k/S0S5mm5jZD...

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:08 | 4425097 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The shape of the planet doesn't threaten his system.  Bitcoin does.

But I'll be fucked if the comment section of ZH just doesn't pick the strangest fucking bedfellows.  Better bite the pillow.  He's all out of lube.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:24 | 4425180 fonestar
fonestar's picture

They've said several times that they would rather take Jamie & Janet's paper rectangles than accept Bitcoin.  fonestar believes that's enough said when determining their loyalties.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:53 | 4425284 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

My only point is that Jamie's assertion that BC's prospects as a stable store of vaule might be absolutely correct - regardless of how big a douche he is.  I have little love for FRNs - but for now - I'm pretty damn happy I'm not getting paid in Bitcoins, and that my liquid savings are not in Bitcoins.  

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:40 | 4424748 Gankfest
Gankfest's picture

Win for whom pumped and dumped!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:51 | 4424794 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Speculating on Bitcoin is just another Ponzi scam.

You need an every larger pool of greater pools to buy into it, just to keep the price rising.

As soon as there are no more greater fools, it crashes, because people are only buying it for the capital gains. There is no yield and in practical terms it's less fungible than cash or even paypal.

It's a bust flush, which is all it ever was.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:54 | 4424820 fonestar
fonestar's picture

With fewer people buying the price just stabilizes.  Any more FUD fonestar can help you with?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:29 | 4424953 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Agreed. When nobody would touch it with a virtual 10 foot pole, BTC will reach it's intrinsic value - 0. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:28 | 4424958 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well it can't if there's no such thing as intrinsic value can it now?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:09 | 4425103 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Gold is literally exactly the same way.  If no-one wanted it for some reason, it to would become worthless.

But that ignores reality, doesn't it?  People DO want both gold AND bitcoin.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:16 | 4425137 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Good point TM, except BTC has about a 10 billion float whereas gold is north of a trillion. There are many more people looking to acquire gold than BTC. There is a reason for that; thousands of years of usage.

10,000 : 1 is not really the best comparison for demand.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:32 | 4426226 TheHound73
Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:21 | 4425415 Cheduba
Cheduba's picture

I would be seriously surprised if central banks weren't simply printing a few billion here and there to buy up bitcoins.  Control the supply and you control the price action right?

Manipulate prices, build up hype, get people frenzied to buy in, do a quick price dump to shake out the weak players, rinse, lather, repeat.  Isn't this what Wall Street and the TBTF banks have done for all eternity with the help of the Federal Reserve?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:33 | 4426233 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I'd sell a couple BTC at $50k each but I'm keeping the rest.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:34 | 4424728 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

I got out and loaded up on more Silver.  This thing is really turning into a mess.  It's not what I imagined it to be, it's too .com-y where there's plenty of it but it isn't really worth anything, it's not productive.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:55 | 4425015 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar sold all of his physical silver and went into Bitcoin at $1100.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:55 | 4425290 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Braver than I would be even if I were a real expert.  But, that violates diversification, which even if you are young should be kept in mind.

All your eggs in one basket and all...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:55 | 4425587 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

OUCH!  I have never sold Silver.  I used some spare cash to buy at $40 so it's been a nice ride.  Know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:34 | 4424729 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

GO GO BITCRASH!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:59 | 4424835 CH1
CH1's picture

Wishing for people to get hurt... and desperately hoping to destroy the only thing the Fed is afraid of.

You just judged yourself.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:16 | 4424857 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Yeah OK CH and we already know where you've been standing, directly behind foniestar.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:29 | 4424954 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Nobody stands behind fonestar.

fonestar is backed by fonestar.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:05 | 4424861 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Which one of God's element on the periodic table is bitcoin backed by?

 

 

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:18 | 4424907 fonestar
fonestar's picture

None, nor should it ever be.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:54 | 4425035 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

@fonestar - "Mom! Can you please throw a couple of Hot Pockets in the microwave? And please turn up the furnace, it's cold down here in the basement."

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:34 | 4425213 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar lives in the attic of a friend of the family (and that's not a joke).

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:36 | 4425482 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

Fonestar the government DOES NOT like competition 

 

New York regulator lists possible new bitcoin rules

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/11/us-usa-bitcoin-idUSBREA1A20X20...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:07 | 4425349 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

Just another buying opportunity dummies. I'm long BTC even if it goes to 1 cent. 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:27 | 4424694 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I have. It's too bad though but I don't want my ass in jail or my blood spilled.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:29 | 4424707 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Poor little man.  The cartel is just like any other criminal or gang (albeit much larger and more powerful) ruled by narcisism, short-sighted greed and arrogance.  Not nearly as powerful or intelligent as the haX0rs, technologists and engineers.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:37 | 4424742 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I've been, may still be, on your side Fonestar. It is true however that one cannot fight city hall. We were born slaves and we will die slaves. I'd have to kill 10 people at least to change, nothing.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:41 | 4424753 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ha!  The money masters will become the new slaves, there's little they can do about it.  Bitcoin is spreding and too many people are awake.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:44 | 4424773 walküre
walküre's picture

Then get your shit together already and make it easy enough so that every retard in America can understand it and buy / sell it. Create a bank for all I care. Just don't name it bank. But I get the feeling that the creators and propagandists of the "currency" alternative are really just scammers which is why the rats are leaving ship.

Mt.Gox et all could be served papers by the DoJ, SEC and so on and that would be one hell of a nightmare to fight.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:40 | 4426239 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I'll be the first to admit I'm not in touch with "every retard in America" but it seems Coinbase.com makes it easy enough and understandable for most to buy / sell it.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 15:58 | 4424822 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Keep clinging to those Tulip bulbs.  They're sure rebound after this correction. . . 

The above post is absolutely correct.  Ma and Pa kettle are just not going to put their life savings onto a jump drive.  Techies like to think that they move and shake the world - but they don't have the numbers to move markets by themselves. 

 

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:10 | 4424879 BTCTalks
BTCTalks's picture

I predict BTC will next be adoptted by the "unbankable."  By this I do not mean criminals, but rather the 6 billion people living in developing countries who also have needs for money (you know, the little people).  Kenyans already use cell minutes as a form of currency and are quickly moving in to BTC for obvious reasons (micro-payments, near-zero transaction costs, etc).  Geeks and traders will make money speculating while the developing world spends it as currency and the middle class gets inflated out of existence.  Moving to BTC will preserve the value of your dollars going forward.  In that sense, BTC exists to preserve the status quo.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:28 | 4424946 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Is there an exchange for cell minutes in Kenya?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:40 | 4424990 BTCTalks
BTCTalks's picture

P2P exchange, yes

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:37 | 4424986 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

BTC us getting huge interest in Argentina...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:42 | 4425002 John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

"the 6 billion people living in developing countries"

...don't have thumb drives or internet connections or a pot to piss in.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:08 | 4425106 BTCTalks
BTCTalks's picture

They do have cell phones though.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:59 | 4425060 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Well, sweet if people in KENYA are doing it or the homeless on the streets of the USA then was have I got to lose?

 

Cigarettes are a form of currency in prison, even if you smuggled them in via your rectum.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:12 | 4425124 BTCTalks
BTCTalks's picture

Spoken like a bankster.  At the same time however, you articulated on of the main arguments of the BTC community.  ANYTHING can be currency.  The FRNs in your pocket hold no intrinsic value, and neither does any form of fiat, so why do we allow ourselves to be beholden to the money masters when we have the technology and opportunity to take the power back?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 17:55 | 4425292 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

The Tide is turning.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:12 | 4424888 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

Sys admins hold the real power.  Techies are posers.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:44 | 4426265 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Actually where I see BTC going is business-to-business (B2B) settlement.  Mega-corps have to pay banker fees too.  If the volatility can be tamed or hedged and the savings on (international) fees shown to be real...

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:01 | 4424842 CH1
CH1's picture

It is true however that one cannot fight city hall.

That is one of the most ignorant phrases I've ever heard. Go tell it to the Tribunes in the Forum.

Oh, yeah, that's right... THEY'RE LONG GONE!

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 16:20 | 4424906 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Well then I'll go stand on a soapbox outside a bank and explain to the nice people how the paper in their pocket is a ponzi scam. I'm sure I won't be laughed at much.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 18:58 | 4425593 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You may well be laughed at but you'd be telling the truth.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 21:50 | 4426280 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I tell people in the Convenience Stores, Grocery Stores, and Liquor Stores that the Currency is COUNTERFEIT with nothing backing it.

 

A Few hear the message. Far fewr agree. But it is still the Truth.

 

That is why I really could not care less about agreement or disagreement here, or, on any other Comment Board.

 

But when posts are made to manipulate and not expose Truth is when it gets bad.

 

He who has eyes let him see. He who has ears let him hear.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!