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Another Bitcoin Flash Crash Imminent? Second Major Exchange Follows MtGox In Suspending Withdrawals
Bitcoin plunged another 15% or so from its bounce highs this morning as volatility has picked up dramatically in the virtual currency. The reasons are numerous: JPMorgan has come out with a scathing attack - "bitcoin looks like an innovation worth limiting exposure to;" CoinDesk reports that major exchanges are under a "massive and concerted attack" by a bot system - creating a "fog of confusion" over the system; and perhaps most critically, BitStamp has followed Mt.Gox and halted withdrawals "due to inconsistent results from their bitcoin wallet" - due to the DDoS attacks...
Basically the main reason why BTC crashed in the past few days was the realization that MtGox had finally halted withdrawals, leading to an escalating blame game in which the finger pointing between the exchanges and the actual bitcoin source code (here and here) meant that something is wrong within the system. This lead to the previously noted flash crash in Bitcoin yesterday:
Alas, that may have been just the beginning when a few hours later, we just learned that the next major Bitcoin exchange, Bitstamp, has just halted Bitcoin withdrwawls, blaming a major DDoS for the suspension.
First, here is JPM's latest hit piece:
Unlike other asset markets, FX rarely welcomes newcomers for the simple reason that launching a widely-used currency traditionally required creating a sovereign or supra-sovereign entity with a central bank to issue the unit and manage its supply over time.
Hence the audacity of bitcoin: it is a stateless, virtual and peer-to-peer currency, so exists only digitally and is associated with no sovereign, central bank or bank payments system. It is also incredibly illiquid extremely volatile and often caricatured.
After a brief Economics 101 refresher on the required functions of money, this research note addresses various frequently-asked questions around this virtual currency: what is it; how is it created and transferred; what are its advantages and disadvantages for corporates and investors compared to fiat currencies; is it a serious contender for a global payments system; and can it prove more durable long-term than other somewhat fixed-supply currencies like gold.
At the risk of sounding like a luddite, bitcoin looks like an innovation worth limiting exposure to. As a medium of exchange, unit of account and store of value, it is vastly inferior to fiat currencies. Since governments are quite unlikely to accord it the status of legal tender, bitcoin or other virtual currencies would not reach the scale and scope to render them worthwhile for widespread commerce, payments or investment.
Bitcoin’s greatest appeal is the apparent cheapness of peer-to-peer fund transfers, though it is unclear how economical these transactions truly are when the virtual world interacts with the real world. As provocative as its underlying technology may be, bitcoin’s practical role may be no larger than that of an emerging markets currency subject to exchange controls.
For corporates, bitcoin’s appeal is two-fold: no or low transaction costs from a peer-to-peer payments system, and the potential brand recognition from trialing a new technology. These advantages must be weighed against extreme illiquidity and volatility, both of which impede risk management. All-in transaction costs may also be higher once the fees from transferring bitcoins to fiat currencies are included.
Investors normally avoid an instrument with bitcoin's trading properties. The unit's main investment appeal is the potential long-term price rise due to limited supply, much like some commodities when the market balance tightens.
But more importantly, the scapegoating begins - DDoS attacks (via CoinDesk):
A “massive and concerted attack” has been launched by a bot system on numerous bitcoin exchanges, Andreas Antonopoulos has revealed.
The chief security officer of Blockchain.info said a DDoS attack is taking Bitcoin’s transaction malleability problem and applying it to many transactions in the network, simultaneously.
“So as transactions are being created, malformed/parallel transactions are also being created so as to create a fog of confusion over the entire network, which then affects almost every single implementation out there,” he added.
And the culmination: BitStamp has halted withdrawals:
Dear Bitstamp users
Bitstamp’s exchange software is extremely cautious concerning Bitcoin transactions. Currently it has suspended processing Bitcoin withdrawals due to inconsistent results reported by our bitcoind wallet, caused by a denial-of-service attack using transaction malleability to temporarily disrupt balance checking. As such, Bitcoin withdrawal processing will be suspended temporarily until a software fix is issued.No funds have been lost and no funds are at risk.
This is a denial-of-service attack made possible by some misunderstandings in the Bitcoin wallet implementation. These misunderstandings have simple solutions that are being implemented as we speak, and we’re confident everything will be back to normal shortly.
Withdrawals which failed on the 10th and 11th of February will be canceled and the amounts added back to the customer account balances.We will communicate any further developments regarding this issue.Thank you for your understanding!
Best regards
Bitstamp team
Best regards indeed.
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sounds like the attacks are aimed at reducing confidence in the currency rather than actually stealing. well played NSA, well played.
According to atleast half of The Flat Earth Society here in ZH , Bitcoin is an NSA baby , make your fucking minds up !
My mind was made up long ago. Cryptocurrencies are the current version of tulips.
I do love how you refer to anyone that doesn't accept that BTC as a viable currency is labled a 'flat earth' thinker. Is it hard to type through those tears of rage?
I'm pissing myself laughing at this shit - this is a minor tertiary issue , the core protocol is rock solid. This is not the first glitch and it certainly won't be the last. Each time this happens it rocks back with a vengeance. I don't think you Flat Earthers can quite grasp what is going on here.
um, pissing yourself laughing? ok, whatever.
readership of ZH is slightly more diverse than simple pro/con arguments..i think you might spend too much time focusing on the comments. Actually, i'm not sure how anyone investing in Gold can be against BTC, or how lovers of BTC can hate gold. BTC means you are against gov't sponsored fiat, goldbugs are just taking a more extreme postion on that same view. but for the gold bugs..i see BTC as a valuable mind bridge to the eventual realization that a backed currency is the only thing that can be trusted.
BTC is not the future, but with $10Bn in circulation, it has certainly passed the test for viability. the worst part about BTC though is that it has suckered so many people into FX trading, not investing. but hey, big risk big reward i get that.
The only problem is that PM-"backed" currancy is how we got fractional reserve banking in the first place. You can't trust bankers and you can't trust their agents in govt. to perform valid audits.
... And you cannot trust a vague global network / block chain that one needs access to the internet to access one's value.
So the answer is to reclaim the bannking system from the left wing facsist parasites... or at least scare them enough to go back to a modified gold standard.
Rather have Bitcoin
Rather have Gold/Silver coin
False dichotomy. Rather have both and not limit cryptocurrency holdings to Bitcoin.
Yes, as long as BTC is what it appears to be, THIS gold owner will own some BTC as well.
A currency created by someone nobody knows backed by nothing but digits and mined by your kids PC. What could possibly go wrong? Oh wait....
There's one born every minute.
Special 1's and 0's my man. Exceptionally special. So very special that they are never allowed to be seen or written, so sayeth the Wizard.
Tally sticks it is then.
But...but...but Phonestar tells me BTC is bullet proof and can survive a nuclear attack.
It can do all of that.
You forgot to add "and a bag of chips" to the end of your sentence.
At what point does one realize that a new iteration of the fiat system is no better than the previous versions?
Fiat is by definition a creation of government and its legal tender laws. Cryptocurrencies have nothing in common with it other than being digital.
Dear fonestar,
All yer bitcoin, it now belongs to us - thanks!
Sincerely,
NSA/CIA/FBI
(and we will blame it on Bush!)
Uh what about the 40 million card numbers stolen from target?
That's a good system?
I've had my cc info ripped-off probably 10x. I've never paid one cent out of my pocket other than the hassle of getting new cards.
Who is going to cover my losses if my BC stash gets Corzined somehow?
If you have your gold stash with a 3rd party and it gets Corzined, you take it to court. Same with BTC.
If you have your gold stash at home and it gets stolen, you call the cops, Same with BTC.
Defendents in multiple jurisdictions are in court for money laundering with BTC.
If authorities do not intend to protect your private property rights while prosecutting other BTC activity, they are corrupt (but we already knew that).
Me think the banks doth protest too much. Ahahahaha these stupid arogant banker fuckers are showing their hand. All they hold is tyranny to a tyrannical system everyone is fucking sick of. It's at the point where even the most sound asleep sheeple can figure it out. Fuck the banks. Stop paying your mortgage. Stop paying your taxes. Hang all the traitors. Arm the people. Fight for our god given rights as written in the constitution. Buy BitCoin. Even if we lose at least you can say you fought.
so you say bitcoin is better than fiat dollars? I still have no problem going to JPM/Chase and withdrawing greenbacks (not yet anyway)
And at first I thouoght you were quoting JPM/Chase.
What happened last year when Bitcoin lost 3/4 of its value? It climbed to 1200.
Can we hit 64,000 this year?
Probably.
the dollar could indeed go down that much
Why would anybody want to sell?
Isn't BitCoin like stocks? You'd be an idiot to sell.
Bitcoin is more like derivatives, than stocks.
Bitcoin holiday! Bank holidays to follow...
Somebody, bring me the head of Jamie Dimond.
The Keiser Ponzi unwinds.
ANYTHING that removes fiat out of circulation -- and with it the control of the CBs and the BIS -- is a good thing.
Whether I invest in it, use it or even 'believe' in is is IRRELEVANT. The point is: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Do you luddites actually 'get' that? Or, given the anti-Bitcoin smearing here on ZH, is it a sign that the number of ZH Trolls is on the rise?
Dude - we idjits get it.
It's just that BitCoin is not the answer to the acknowledged abuse of CBs and fractional reserve currency. Now do you get that....you feckin' idjit ?
Ahhh kinda but it helps get this idjit up to snuff.
It Bitsme is what it takes to get Mo idjits up to speed so be it.
I guess Overstock.com will become an exchange.
Just load up on oversized womens stretchy skirts, pay with bitcoin, and then request a refund in cash.
Thats funny...
The Mises Institute is presenting it in the context of a fractional reserve bank run.
http://bastiat.mises.org/2014/02/bitcoin-bank-run-take-2/
Either you're with the prick BANKSTERS or you're not. Buy BitCoin kill the banks. ANYTHING that hurts a bank is something the people MUST support. Stop paying you're mortgage for three months and the banks come crashing down. Those fuckers are walking a razor edge. If only these stupid fuck sheeple would wake the fuck up. Anyone working for the government now is a fucking traitor. These government pukes are being paid with printed QE shit while the rest of us get it in the ass. They're traitors. Hang them.
if you want to fuck the banks, stop spending
Yeah, let the bail-ins begin.
Flash crashes make me sell my BTC
I stll have firm faith in BTC and will not sell
Y'all know this DDOS is the CIA at work, right?
Quite possibly. Follow up some 'goxing with some DDOSing?
Would be interesting if Anon started digging and found out that many former clients of HBGary were also invloved in taking BitCoin down. I would not be one tiny bit surprised!
It would pique my curiosity if a high percentage of these mutated transactions show up only in blocks of a certain mining pool...
bitcoin to shitcoin to splatcoin
it's just another product to trade - well maybe not anymore
I'm not saying bitcon is good or bad I'm just thinking that even a dollar bill is a tangible item that I can use to wipe my ass or even pick up dog shit.
lol, you can't exactly play poo dollar with bitcoin now can you?
It's a contract of Fraud.(dollar bill)
On a technical point, there is one cost factor about all Crypto-Currencies (CCs) that bothers me: If you're not mining it cost-effectively yourself, the Margins on buying & selling them against fiat are way more than the "ripoff" fees from plastic debit/credit cards.
Clearly the CC Reseller market is handicapping Bitcoin and other CCs with their middle-man margins (Low-volume, Hi-margin biz models) that alienates the average person, and thus marginalizes its appeal to cases of "desperation" (untaxed/gray money, illegal/black money, or scared money like in Cyprus etc).
As much as I'm cheering for CCs (and dabble in some myself) I predict that unless BTC and other CCs solve this Margin problem, they will level off sooner than they suspect, and people with Gray and Black money will continue using fiat Notes in most cases, and gold or diamonds in some cases.
Insofar this turns out to be true, the traditional crime cartels of fiat money don't have real worries. This is a PR move, designed to limit the growth of CCs by attacking its head: BTC. The Wolves of Wall St are just scaring the Sheeple with a few barks. It seems to be working. Even on some ZH sheeple. ;-)
I would like to see someone trace the bitcoin that they deposited in Mt Gox, and see if Mt Gox isn't a fractional reserve "bank" and merely experiencing a run.
It's probably like the Comex. setting prices on a commodity, that they hold very little of.
Seems to me that, after numerous other attempts to limit BTC growth, this is a move on the PR side... By spreading handfuls of FUD* and seeing what sticks.
* Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt
Given the word choice of this article's title, it continues to suggest to me that the Tylers are still pro-gold, pro-silver, and not so keen on Crypto-Currencies. But, given that they LOVE site hits and Ad revenue above all, I rather suspect that they love posting Bitcoin and Crypto-Currency (CC) articles because they generate a lot more hits these days than another boring and predictable PM article.
BTW, I think we've all learned by now how to front-run TPTB on PM (with limited success, if at all), and we're now curious on if/how to do the same by speculating with CCs. Otherwise (other than trying to front-run once again) I don't see why the articles on Bitcoin or other CCs attract so many readers and bloggers.
in the case of Mt Gox,
we need to give "credit" where credit is due.
Even the BTC community is pointing fingers (FUD) at Mt Gox.
I would guess that MtGox was operating in a fractional-reserve capacity. I theorize that they were taking the other side of customer trades in hopes of an eventual price rise. MtGox traded consistently at a 7-10% premium to the cash market (Bitstamp) so people would move their coin to Gox and sell in hopes of a quick arb. This finally came to bite them in the ass. What Gox was doing was operating as a "custodial accounts" service where the trades were creditted to the account before being verified on the blockchain. Essentially, this is just BTC's MF Global. Screw MFGox!
something is wrong within the system
no kidding.
This isn't a DDoS attack, this is a pinpoint attack on the guts of Bitcoin.
I'm more curious why now, and by whom, than the specific technical details which are obvious.
I think I have an answer: Up until recently, its critics have focused on its price volatility, which discouraged many/most retail stores to use it.
Then, in recent weeks, we've finally seen it stabilize in the low-800s. When this happens, wider interest and acceptance at Retail level starts to take place. This article seems to try to Front-Run such acceptance, by spreding FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) -- to 'freeze' the market.
Mind Games. Banking Psy Ops.
It's just another iteration of the (now) over-used Ghandi quote..."First they ignore you (done), then they ridicule you (done), then they fight you (presently), then you win (next up)."
At some point one of the vendors, like maybe a big foreign car dealership, that sells high priced items is gonna get burned after they lose a third of the value of their sale during one of these bc freefalls. Let that happen and I doubt very many (sans drug dealers of course) will be accepting this fake currency. Hell anyone with half a brain wouldn't be accepting it now. I continue to be amazed that people think of these 1's and 0's are worth anything. If it became in vouge to think that dogshit was a good currency substitute people would be out on the streets following people with leashes around with a scoop and a bag. At least tulips had a pleasant aroma.
When using services like BitPay, you lock in an exchange rate for 15 min and never have to touch the coin. Just have fiat depositted in your acocunt. Next.
" I continue to be amazed that people think of these 1's and 0's are worth anything"
Ask the boys from google about that.
gosh major bitcon exchanges "suspending withdrawals".... hoocoodanode?
no moar NO MOAR bitcoin crash charts! By the mercy of Satoshi, no moarz!!
foreskinned, I mean foan star.
Bitcoin foam is making the FED look like a respectable fount of phoney fiat.
Decentralised systems are not subject to DDOS attacks.
=> Bitcoin is _______________
Fill in the blank as appropriate. Yes this is an IQ test.
Bitcoin is a decentrali[z]ed system subject to a wave of fake transactions as a form of DDOS attack.
DonT need much of an IQ to realize that. Even i can...
Eh no, and you failed the IQ test I'm afraid.
If Bitcoin were truly decentralised, transactions could simply continue on systems not affected directly by the fake transactions.
The nature of the blockchain however makes it a centralised system. Put another way, the flood fill algorithm (all transactions have to be distributed everywhere for it to work) used for the blockchain makes Bitcoin a centralised system.
HTH
Better luck next time.
distributed everywhere = centralised?
Transactions are distributed everywhere and recorded in the blockchain which is distributed everywhere. I don't get your centralization argument...
Perhaps if you show examples comparing it to known centralized payment systems such as Visa or PayPal...
The fact that you are still able to copy the blockchain all over the world rather than accessing it in a central location is pretty much irrelevant. As the blockchain increases in size it becomes more difficult, then it becomes impossible, but the system still relies on all transactions being available to all of the nodes in the network. Bitcoin is naturally a centralised system. As the blockchain grows the number of systems with direct access to it will decline.
A truly decentralised system wouldn't rely on a single authoritative database of transactions. There would be no blockchain.
Without a ledger, how do you protect yourself against counterfeits and double-spends?
You had better stick with your current game plan as you clearly don't grasp central concepts about Bitcoin. Which is fine, all this will work itself out over time.
a database which is copied and sync'd on several computers (the blockchain) is a distributed database.
I hope you donT work in IT.
They're real. And they're spectacular!
Bitcoin's fundamental flaw:
https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
It's not an issue. It's been covered many times before.
The miners have little incentive to even use that block size, rather smaller.
you think anyone here can take onboard any information that opposes their world view?
Uh,... yes it IS an issue.
The block chain is growing exponentially. It was under 1 gigabyte less than 18 months ago; it's now near 15 gigabytes:
https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
At average US internet download speeds (~ 20 Mbps) that means 2 hours to download the block chain for the typical Bitcoin user.
If Bitcoin hopes to expand to cover even a tiny percentage of the transactions handled by an entity like Visa; the block chain will be well into the terrabytes.
Good luck with that...
The problem is that any geek can flood the system with bogus transactions, and at the limit the bogus transactions "are valid" if they outweigh the competition. As the blockchain grows the ability to corrupt it grows too. Completely unstable, non-scalable, and unreliable. BY DESIGN. It cannot succeed.
Unless it does...
Bogus transactions are stopped by each node in the network whenever they are detected. You think obvious this attack vector wasn't addressed before the network even booted up 5 years ago?
The future is Dogecoin.
The chart has gotten banged up a decent amount after doing a lot of hard work to recover from the news that the world would end because that pillar of financial and economic vitality and integrity chin was "banning" Bitcoin. So, organizations that are scared shitless of BTC know this and they time these attacks with a purpose. This chart has a lot of damage to repair but has anybody considered how resilient this thing has been? We've had the ECB verbally pass on QE, Fed jawboning of more taper (it's all bullshit unless we see audits but you get my drift), and then relentless attacks here taking advantage of a mickey mouse exchange falling apart which should have been obvious to anyone that observed their operations.
Two things stand out 1) ZH has a businss to run and they can play both sides of the Bitcoin FUD game to create click bait, and 2) JPM is very, very scared of Bitcoin.
"That's what happens when you don't hold it....," my Grampa says.
in fact crashes happen when not everyone is HODLING.
Oh Oh, this one is circulating on a Bitcoin board that I check on once in a while. It appears they have armed themselves with their cash. I think they are catching on. They do not appear to like Apple products much either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcl6BV1r3gU#t=31
It's EXTRAORDINARILY simple. No matter if you believe that this is "FREEDOM TECH" (in the words of Fonestar) and that it gives the little guy some way around the machinations of the corrupt, crony financial system.....the fact still remains that Bitcoin and other digital alt-currencies have NO basis in real labor. Any currency that ever has been created or will be in the future that is not valued in real, measurable labor is doomed to fail.
Now I know....you might say that includes all fiat currencies and you would be correct. Even if that currency was backed by something physical....such as gold....would ultimately fail when not tied to human labor. For even gold is just a proxy....a symbolic representation of the worth of someone's labor. You should not pay me a gold coin for labor that should be worth a silver coin.
Go back further......If we were in a barter system.....and I raised chickens who free ranged on property that contained enough grain and insect material to supply their food, and they had enough natural shelter from predators or I even took a small amount of time to build a coop and the only other labor i did was to simply pick up the eggs on a daily basis and you come along with a finely honed arrowhead from obsidian which I had no access to nor the skills to produce but I needed none the less in order to hunt for some food......you could rightly argue that your knowledge, skill set, your labor and the time invested on that arrow head is worth more than one egg if we were bartering. It might be worth a dozen.....perhaps only 7....depending on how much I needed additional protein for me and the family above and beyond the occasional chicken.
In other words, we would be setting the "exchange rate" between the eggs and the arrow head based on the value of the labor it took for us to produce our various goods we were interested in and unable to provide for ourselves.
The labor involved in creating a Bitcoin has already been done primarily by the utility company who created the power station and ran the electrical lines to your house or appartment. The contractor put his two cents worth in by running a line from the power pole to your wall. The computer OEM built the computer for you. The software was built by someone else....in fact a whole army of people.
All you did, Fonestar and others.....was turn the computer on.
That is precisely what Bitcoin is worth. How much it cost you to send a bio-chemical request to your finger to either turn your computer on.....or simply double click an icon.
And that's why Bitcoin will fail in the end even if it is not killed off first by it's own mania-inducing meme or by governments.....who like the Mafia.....don't like the little guy getting in the business of printing money from thin air and valuing it however the hell they please and competing with the big boys.
I would buy all the iCraplets you can from Overstock.com before you are left with a hard drive full of binary digits that have already been scoured by the NSA.
Interesting. So some energy is worth more than others? Currency in any form is simply a measure of energy output. If I use a mechanical reaper does the value of my wheat go down? (the answer is NO - not for my wheat - assuming no one else is using it) If I were to mine BTC, then I would be converting electrical energy in to a form of electronic currency. I see nothing ridiculous about this.
That's because you don't understand the "currency" you get won't pay for the electricity & hardware it cost you to GET that currency.
When I use power for cooking, heating or powering my computer, it WILL make many more dollars than it will cost me.
Empirical evidence might suggest otherwise. Either that or people are simply looking to divest themselves from their har earned money. Whichever you find more logical.
empirical evidence shows the cost of making btc getting exponentially higher at baseline and worse, shows the decrease in dollar-value of btc to be far, far worse than the increases in electric bills or hardware to produce more btc.
It seems to me that people who think they will make money with bitcoin are just very bad at math & will lose a lot. Because they are very bad at math.
Does your mechanical reaper use energy?
You donT have a mechanical reaper? oh. That's funny, i coulda swore you said you had one... (?)
Of course some energy is worth more than others. You need food. You can't grow it. Let's say you are totally paralyzed. You have some money. You are willing to pay for some food in order to stay alive. I grow some food. We agree on a fair price. I might even cut you a break and lower my profit margin. I might even do it just for costs. I give you food based on my energy output. You stay alive one more day.
Richard Simmons comes over one day when I am not there and when you need food again. He spends the whole day "Sweatin' to the Oldies" in his litlle short shorts right in front of you. He's expending energy. He might expend more energy on any given day than I do depending what I am growing and harvesting for your food.
But each day that he is there expending energy and I am not there giving you the opportunity to purchase my converted energy (food), you grow weaker and closer to death.
And then Richard gives you a bill. Is is worth more than what I am offering?
Depends on how much you value your own life. But you've already made that choice today my friend. You got up this morning and expended energy in order to live. You haven't offed yourself yet......even though that would take some energy to do. Therefore......the energy it takes to live is worth more to you right now than the energy it would take to kill yourself.
You answered your own question the moment you awoke this morning.
Oh.....BTW.....if you use industrial means to grow food.....as in your example on using a mechanical reaper to harvest wheat......yes it DOES decrease the value of the wheat. Because you can now plant and harvest EVEN MORE of that wheat and get it to market before it rots you and the other farmers who use the mechanical planters and reapers have now produced a SURPLUS of wheat to the market. Therefore the price (market derived VALUE) has gone down.
Because it is cheaper to run and maintain that mechanical reaper than it is to house and feed and pay and maintain the human force needed to produce just as much wheat as that mechanical reaper.....the wheat is therefore worth less as well.....particularly if there are no more mouths to feed than the extra wheat that is produced. This is one of the fundamental reasons why wages are stagnating and even decreasing. Machines, computers and robots.....plus new techniques of physical labor mean that more can get done with little increase in labor costs......that is to say......cutting ANOTHER check to ANOTHER human employee. This is PRODUCTIVITY. You're individual labor is worth less because I can get a machine to do it for me for free (above and beyond the cost of acquiring the machine....a one time cost....and the cost of upkeep and replacement.....still cheaper than buying a bunch of humans).
Bitcoin is robotic currency. You didn't make it......therefore.....it's value is worthless.
"it's value is worthless."
Unless I actually, hmm, buy something with it?
As a best selling author, help me decide on a proper value for the rights to my next novel... in terms of Joules of energy?
Money is an abstraction. What gets used "as" money becomes a shared consensus -- or shared delusion (depending on how you want to look at it). Value is subjective and the proof is in the pudding -- the actual exchange. I subjectively determine an ounce of gold currently is not worth a pack of smokes but a semi-truck full of cigs might be -- if I can only find somebody to take the other side of that trade...
"As a best selling author, help me decide on a proper value for the rights to my next novel.....in terms of joules of energy."
Simple......everyone needs to eat to survive. Reading is not essential to this purpose. Life and the sustainment of it is the Prime Directive of the Universe....whether you believe in God or not.
Now....take away all the trappings of modern life and the one by-product that it has given the most of to most of us and that product is free time. Now that most of us never have to worry about (at least on the surface) food, and because of time saving and labor saving devices....we don't have to worry about and expend labor from before sun-up to well after sun-down in the growing, havesting, preparation and storage of food. We have free time now to read someone's novel. We can set a value to the joules of energy the writer expended in the creation of said novel. But that value is artificial and non-truthful.....because it does not satisfy the Truth of the Prime Directive.....namely.....the sustainment of Life.
We higher order animals always get this wrong. All other life....which is ruled by instinct....knows the value of the Prime Directive without all the added cruft of higher order thinking and life. They are "closer to the bone" and thusly "closer to the Truth". Which is why all other life other than humans spend most of their waking hours looking for food and shelter......not writing novels.....or debating the value of said novel on the basis of joules of energy expended.
They value food.....and are willing to kill or be killed in obtaining it.
The computers that are produced in which to calculate and compute an algoritm which someone had the free time to program are all objects of excess time provided by the vageries of modern life. As such they add to the widening gap between the reality of the importance and value of the Prime Directive and the Un-reality of the life and lifesyle as we know it today.
In other words.....everything derived from modern life.....including Bitcoin.....automatically have less value and in fact AID in the obscuring of real value vis a vis the things that it takes to satisfy the Prime Directive.
Let me make it REAL simple. For billions of years.....life did not NEED Bitcoin. That's because Bitcoin is non-essential. That is its TRUE value. Worthless. And when Bitcoin finally fades away as it will.....billions of lifeforms including humanity will neither die off or even know it was gone.....much less even existed. Once again.....highlighting Bitcoin's true value....which is nothing.
But it is based on labor: The computers have to masturbate furiously to spew out even a single BTC. It's a big circle jerk, but there is a lot of heat generated in the process that has to be carried away from the CPUs.
That's funny because it is so true. Because....think about it. All computer code, including Bitcoin algorithms are finally translated into binary code. 0's and 1's. But even the computer has no comprehension of 0's and 1's. That's machine code. Machine code is simply for US....the humans to look at ( and at one time code in ) not the machines.
In other words.....0's and 1's are still simply SYMBOLS for us to interpret.....not the machine.
Those 0's and 1's are simply symbols of the root basis of ALL computing.....which is this. The selective timing of the input of voltage. In other words.....electricity is released into the system and the various chips, transistors, capacitors, registers, etc. etc. and that is interpreted as a 1. Turn the power off for a brief speck of time and that is a 0. Do that a few billion times a second and at various intervals and you generated strings of 0's and 1's
All a computer does is stroke itself a few billion times a second ( hence the word Gigahertz....GHz), every second of every minute it is "turned on".....on and off.....up and down......until it "outputs".
LOL !!! It isn't a DIFFERENCE ENGINE......it's a WANK BOX !!!!
THAT'S IT !!!!
Bitcoin should be renamed as WANK COIN !!
LOL !!!!
wait, th3 bitco1nz do NOT have tha 1nvulnerables??
RUH ROH
The labor theory of value has been disproved long ago. Mind, this is not a comment on bitcoin, merely a comment on the idea that the value of something depends on the amount of labor put into its creation. That is patently false. All value judgments are subjective, and labor has nothing to do with the formation of value judgments.
You're so cosmically wrong I do not know where to begin other than to say that your statement is only true in the sense that we have tried and in many ways succeeded in divorcing rea;ity from our daily lives.....including economics which would also include the formation of value judgements vis a vis labor.
Obviously you are a young person.....perhaps very young and still impressionable by the teachings of modern day gurus and theorists. Or perhaps you are old.....old enough to have completely constipated your mind with decades of false economic theory......such as from the likes of Krugman and Keynes., et. al.
But ignorant you are. Good news is.....that's fixable. Not knowing you can fix that state of mind.....and not willing to try......well....that's stupid. Don't be stupid.
And please for the love of God don't wait until the always true value of the labor needed to grow food....or be a handyman is brought back to reality versus the labor it takes for you to swipe an app on your cell phone......particularly when your neighbors need food now because the supply chain has broken down after the collapse and / or our fiat currency is rendered worthless and all you can give them is the labor it took to swipe an app on your smart phone to order a now non-existant service.
Rex.....there is Truth....always has been.....even in economics and the value of labor. We humans, though, are the best that have ever evolved in trying to obscure said Truth. We get up every single day to do our best at hiding it and hiding from it.
I used to work at Chase and I can tell you one of their most profitable businesses then as now is credit cards. So of course JP Morgan is going to do whatever they can to shit all over bitcoin and then kill it. Read the recent piece by Marc Andreessen http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/why-bitcoin-matters/ If bitcoin is not killed it threatens the billions raked in by the credit card companies each year. Obviously they will not give up those billions without a fight
Dogecoin not under attack.
So real. Much secure.
but can i get rich quick?
Zimbabwe has $100 Trillion Dollar bitcoins - just saw and held an actual $100 Trillion Dollar bill from Zimbabwe - it shoore looks purdy......
Hitler had the right idea after all.
Money should be backed by labour. Oh you thought I meant the other thing.
Haha. Remember all the guys defending this fake coin. They called me a "dinosaur"...T-rex, bitchez.
I seem to remember that talk back when BTC was hitting new all time highs at $266. It ramped up to smack gold on the ass at $1242 and is currently trading at $672.
What's your point? I defend the usefullness and the technology of Bitcoin. If it lives up to its potential it will be highly disruptive.
No one ever said going up agaist the FED and the petro dollar hegemony would easy, or pretty. And it sure isn't a get rich quick scheme. But hey, some one has to do God's work. Bitcoin haters can call us fools, but nothing is more dangerous than a fool with a cause.
Name me any cause that has stood the test of humanity.
All causes fail. History proves that. That's why everything ends up in revolution, time and again. And revolutions always happen at a certain nexus of time when the generation that starts the revolution is at a point that, while sick enough of the status quo risk everything to overthrow it, are too ignorant in history to realize they are simply chasing their tail.
Revolutions like bitcoin mining is an exercise in masturbation. A lot of energy exerted into too short of a payout.....before you find yourself wanking that handle again......never truly satisfying the root cause of the issue.
But, but . . . I thought virtual currencies like bitcoin -- which are reliant upon all kinds of hardware and software infrastructure for every transaction [if not their very existence in reality] -- were just as safe as physical precious metals in one's own possession. [\sarcasm off]
What i like about Bitcoin is: Bitcoin is based on Trust.
I trust anonymous programmers with my money.
They hardly ever make mistakes.
Whoever is doing this is not stealing coins, but is succeeding in preventing some transactions from confirming. It’s important to note that DoS attacks do not affect people’s bitcoin wallets or funds.
Bitcoin so bitter. No one spend bitcoin. Just hoard. Like squirrel.
Dogecoin celebrates life. Here, have 1000 dogecoin!!!
New currency. Much happiness. So real.
Bitcoinz goin' ta 7 digits, f00lz!
0.0000001
Agreed 0.0000001 btc : 1 cent US , But that won't happen until atleast around 2030 / 2040.
You & I both know bitcoin will be 0.00000001 btc to 1 US dollar and then the dollar itself will collapse so it will be at least 50,000 USD to get 1 ounce of gold and no one will sell for paper. bitcon is f1nish3d d00d.
btc = pwned
The ignorance is palpable in all btc related threads here, same old comments by same old usernames.
All I know is I worrry.. a lot about my physical holdings when I go away, despite several security layers. Even so far as not telling anybody when I will go away or return.
My USB stick however goes where I go, I don't care much if I lose it, it's stolen, anybody can have a look on it if they want...
all very anti-btc here, no great insight into future of world trade and currency stabilisation? we need new innovaion, no?
also the anti btc'ers seem to assume you're either into one thing or the other, not ALL things ever?
So wrong, T for T!
Currency is not a flashdrive. Or a holding. Currency is a community of shared happiness, joy, and celebration!
That is a currency you trade, give, and grow.
Dogecoin. Much future.
It is known.
Currency is whatever people decide to exchange, but why the f would I want to trade in btc over a dollar? Both are horrible. BTC slightly less horrible (much more volatile), but definitely not $650 premium. BTC should be about $1.25 since it's slightly better than a dollar.
What's the M1/M2/M3 money supply these days? $Trillions. Comparing just qualitatively then, the 12 million Bitcoins that exist should be worth the USD money supply plus a premium because they are "slightly better". Obviously current demand for BTC is nowhere near demand for USD. But demand for BTC just might be growing, albeit in spasms and spurts with some stumbles along the way.
I've got some insight for you, if you're not already aware of it: make sure that your USB stick is stored in an ElectroMagnetic-Pulse-protected (EMP) container. This will not only protect it from damage from the more familiar and hopefully less common causes of EMP (like nuclear blast, mass-ejection of coronal matter from the sun, etc.) but also from a much more common cause of localized EMP in many areas: lightning.
A friend of mine once had a TV which was completely UNPLUGGED FROM ALL WIRES [including power and communications] in his living room, but it was completely fried by a lightning strike outside of his house more than 50 feet from the TV due merely to the EMP!
To make an EMP-protected container, all you need is a container which is fully, completely, and totally surrounded by an excellent conductor such as silver, copper, aluminum, or gold (with no gaps and very good electrical contact where the opening is closed); and it really helps if you "ground" that container by "bonding" it with a large copper wire to the local grounding system in the building or vehicle where it is stored. And, make sure that the USB is insulated from being in electrical contact with the metallic container.
If that sounds like a pain in the rear, just think of what finding out that your USB is totally fried sounds like.
But he just needs to have multiple USB sticks or other wallets or even a piece of paper with the numbers written on it and he will be fine.
I didn't realize you could just write down the number with bitcoins, but if you can, that sounds like an excellent idea -- indelible marker . . . waterproof paper . . . in a fire safe.
Heres where i think it comes from. TPTB have total control, really. They control the input currency, they control the output currency.
One thing thats never been explained to me, and Fonestar or CH1 maybe can do that, is this; what happens when TPTB sieze control of the internet? If/when they sieze the servers, ISPs deny service to cryptocurrency sites? Then what happens? This is a legitimate question, no snark intended.
TPTB donT have to block the whole internet, they only need to block one port.
Oh,but then the BTC community would constantly change ports as TPTB keep trying to block each new port they operate on (whack a mole).
That confusion would cause several forks and we get multiple versions of bitcoin. That is good, if you want to spend your bitcoins more than once!
Some salesmen will claim that bitcoin could operate completely on tor. But we all know how slow tor is, which would make bitcoin transactions even slower than they are now.
Wut? Changing ports does not fork the blockchain, I do it all the time and is a simple flag on the command line (-port=12345).
Shutting down the internet also cripples the distribution network that fills grocery stores and gas stations. ..The proverbial MadMax situation where stocked goods and PMs retain value. BTC is really only functional on a functioning internet. That's one of its basic properties that should be known and accounted for when dealing with it.
that is your return-route port, you can set that how you like, that is how TCP works,
the main protocol port 8333 can be blocked
Nice, local bitcoin range is from 540 to 1585. TODAY. That's what I call stability!
one of these BTC is not like the other .... discrimination!
Somebody is offering to sell an ounce of gold on EBay for $2300 and somebody else Wants-To-Buy gold at $900 on Craigslist. Gold sucks at stability?
gold has atoms: electron-dollars & electron-bitcoins don't. Printing dollar-marks or bitcoin patterns doesn't imbue special value onto things which do have atoms. No matter what electrons for fiat are offered for gold, the atoms of gold are unchanged by this. Bitcoin: not so much. It has no purpose but the trade. Intrinsic value: it's what gold has because you don't NEED to trade it. Gold, silver, copper, food, various (not all) medicines - intrinsic value is the NON-money component of value & is the most important. That which doesn't have it can't be money either. Bitcoin: fail.
The Flat Earth Society will have to eat their bullshit when this little storm in a teacup is over.
The Bitcoin Protocol is Rock Solid.
Bitcoin , Bit-chez.
so sad the exchanges cannot provide "rock solid" services.
"storm is a teacup" is so approriate for the bitcoin microcosm.
TPTB Bitcoin attack, same as gold attacks. No surprise.
This is really financial terrorism and treason against the masses. They will do anything to keep their jackboot fiat. At least Bitcoin is totally voluntary and is not forced upon us by TPTB.
TPTB Bitcoin attack, same as gold attacks. No surprise.
This is really financial terrorism and treason against the masses. They will do anything to keep their jackboot fiat. At least Bitcoin is totally voluntary and is not forced upon us by TPTB.
btc hasn't been affected, the xchanges have to make their fixes. Only the perceived value has been affected. Anyone in from $4 certainly doesn't care for more sensationalist headlines.
The Bitcoin protocol will have as much time and money thrown at it as did torrent. NSA 0 INTERWEBS 2
Bitcoin. So sadness. Anger. Bitter. Selfish.
No future. Much hoarding. Like goldbugs ... with guns and boomsticks.
Dogecoin to rescue! Inflation forever! Share happiness and joy.
Share bitcoin!
Have 50 dogecoin. Have 100. Have 1000! Much for all, and all for Much.
So real.
flux so poor, none bitcoin, none golds
None bitcoins, none golds, none false idols. Hoarding and hope so sad. Much riches in community, health, family, and friends. True richnes!
Share dogecoin! You have so happiness too!
I give you 1000 dogecoin. Start to happiness!
Tip: Most people use English on this website. DoggieSpeak is fine on reddit or wherever.
Did anyone ever notice that the TEPCO icon looks like a 3 eared Mickey Mouse with holes in it's head.....scroll to bottom of my Radon page
http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/2014/02/radon-radon-safety-in-home-and-nuke.html
This is too funny. The BTC cheerleaders are now really grasping at straws! Embarrasing, guys.
Suggesting the typical BTC critic on here is too stupid to understand the vast complex technology behind BTC and then they try and convince themselves that eventually millions, maybe billions of people in the third world will adopt BTC as their currency via cell phones because they can't afford Dollars.
I'm not a high tech wizard by any means but I think I've got a bit of a technological advantage due to my location on the majority of these billions in the 3rd world and I can't figure out what BTC actually offers that is any different than buying a penny stock on the OTC. Get in early, ride it up and get the hell out. Convert the winnings into cash or whatever.
How is BTC any different other than the fact that it's promoted globally and the price seems supported by mostly EM currency holders storing their money in BTC wallets. We don't even know if that's true or not. BTC was discovered as a medium of exchange for mostly contraband and illegal services.
The gig is up, face plant.
So, there is no potential for frictionless micro-payments? What about internet transactions without fees? How about the ability to marginalize middle-men and money changers the world over? However does one plan to purchase a single banana in the slums of Nairobi in US$ or even Kenyan Shillings? I'm not sure fiat is that fungible (outside of Zimbabwe or Argentina). BTC fills the void. If I want to pay $0.0001 for an item, I can and I don't even need to pay fees on it.
Good luck finding marketers and promoters who will take your product to the slums of Kenya. Maybe one of Obama's cousins, illegitimate brothers, aunts or whatever are available to help you out.
The only asset BTC has is the name and the brand recognition. Maybe that can be packaged and sold off to give the "investors" some of their moneys back. Once the exchanges stop trading it, the retailers won't accept payment.
BTC should have a caveat emptor sign to it at the very least by now.
You need to do more research in to this stuff before spouting off.
https://kipochi.com/
lol, bitcoin for obamaphones!
Does it interface with EBT too? EBT <=> BTC
There is potential but not w this particular coin.
It's like Gopher in 1980's or something
Some of us are still using Gopher.