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Greed + Cartels = U.S. Sickcare/ObamaCare

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Charles Hugh-Smith of OfTwoMinds blog,

Sickcare/ObamaCare is fundamentally broken at every level.

The incremental nature of change makes it difficult for us to notice how systems that once worked well with modest costs have transmogrified into broken systems that cost a fortune. Exhibit # 1 is higher education: 40 years ago, four-year public universities were affordable and two-year community colleges were almost free. Now students have to borrow $1 trillion to pay for the exorbitant privilege of higher education.

And no, the difference isn't that states don't provide the same funding--the difference is costs have soared while the yield on the investment has plummeted. Please read:

The Mafia State of Mind

Our Two Most Onerous Taxes: College Tuition and Healthcare Insurance

Our Middleman-Skimming Economy

America's Make-Work Sectors (Healthcare and Higher Education) Have Run Out of Oxygen

Longtime correspondent Ishabaka (an M.D. with 30+ years experience in primary care and as an emergency room physician) responded to this article with an insider's account of what happens when greed and cartels take over healthcare. After reading What's wrong with American hospitals?, a scathing deconstruction of for-profit healthcare, Ishabaka submitted this commentary:

I could have told you what was wrong with our hospital system by 1989 - nobody would listen to me back then.

Up til the '70's, almost all hospitals in the United States were not for profit COMMUNITY HOSPITALS. They were LOCAL. The Board of Directors was made up of some senior doctors, maybe the head nurse, and various other prominent local businessmen and professionals. Others (mostly Catholic), were run as non-profits by religious orders. A very few, mostly very small hospitals were for profit, usually owned by a group of doctors, or even one doctor.

The mission of these community hospitals was to provide for the LOCAL COMMUNITY - one and all. Payment was various - private insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, self pay - and the idea was to collect just enough money to keep the hospital going, and provide care for the poor who had no money to pay. If your grandma got bad care - you could go - in person - to the local, say, banker, on the Board of Directors, and tell him - and he would CARE.

THIS SYSTEM WORKED, and kept costs DOWN. Remember, the hospital just needed enough money to stay in the black. Often local wealthy people would will money to the hospital in which they had been cared for.

In the '80's - there was the arrival of the for-profit cartels - and I use the world cartels specifically - these were run by people with the sociopathic Goldman Sachs type mentality - their sole goal was to acquire huge sums of money for themselves, their hospital directors, and their SHAREHOLDERS. They used a typical sneaky technique - they'd come into town, and tell the locals they could run the hospital much cheaper, because of their economy of scale. People believed this, and the cartels bought out most of the community hospitals.

I worked at one such for-profit hospital and had a 21-year old indigent man come in who'd been struck by a car while walking, and was rapidly bleeding to death. The hospital administrator refused to open the operating room, even though I had a surgeon right there, willing and able to operate for free to save this young man's life. The surgeon threw a fit, and he was a big wheel at the hospital and the administrator backed down - otherwise I firmly believe the young man would have died. This was LEGAL back then, before the EMTLA law was passed because similar abuses were rampant NATIONWIDE.

Around this time, the administrators of the remaining community hospitals found out the administrators of the for-profit hospitals were making tens of times their salaries - and bonuses based on profits - and started demanding similar salaries and bonuses based on PROFITS - a contradiction of the old concept of community hospitals (the article does touch on this).

How do you increase hospital profits? Number one - avoid any care for the poor you can weasel out of. Number two - cut staff to the bone and beyond (one of hospital's biggest expenses). Most American hospitals now have UNSAFE nurse to patient ratios because of this.

As far as patient care goes, nurses are the most important people in hospitals. I know of one lady who DIED while in a monitored bed, and wasn't found dead until several hours later due to the criminally low nursing staff ratio in a hospital I worked in. I HAD complained about the dearth of nurses, and was threatened with the loss of my job. Another side effect of this is, nursing in hospitals has become unbearable for nurses who really cared about their patients - many good hospital nurses have left hospital work for other fields. The results are appalling.

I saved the life of a patient an unqualified, under-educated nurse gave the wrong medicine to - a medicine that IMMEDIATELY MAKES YOU STOP BREATHING, because it was cheaper for the hospital to hire her than a knowledgeable and experienced nurse. The medicine is pancuronium bromide, if you want to Google it. The nurse didn't know one of the effects was cessation of breathing - this is Pharmacology for Nurses 101, this drug is used all day long in every operating room in America (where doctors WANT patients under anesthesia to stop breathing, and put them on breathing machines during the surgery - which is very safe if done correctly).

I could go on and on. Simple things, like the instruments you use to suture cuts - community hospitals used to buy Swiss or German made ones that were of the finest quality, sterilize and re-use them over and over. This changed to disposable instruments that sometimes literally fell apart in my hands. Bandage tape that didn't stick, instead of quality Johnson and Johnson tape - anything to save a buck.

It is not getting better, it is getting worse. The nurses I know tell me hospitals are cutting staff even MORE now in preparation for Obamacare.

I will end with a story that illustrates the difference between Old School and New School hospital administrators.

I had the pleasure of working five years in a real community hospital. One of the senior administrators (R.I.P.) was a gentleman who'd made his fortune in the grocery business. In his late 80's, he would arrive at the emergency department entrance every morning between seven and eight am, and proceed to walk throughout the hospital. He would ask various and sundry staff how they were getting along - everyone from janitors to senior physicians. If something was amiss - HE RECTIFIED THE SITUATION. Tragically, this hospital was bought out, and is now part of a chain.

I had the displeasure of working in a "community" (really for-profit) hospital with a middle aged administrator who NEVER set foot outside his office or conference rooms - he NEVER appeared in the (very large and busy) emergency department once. This was in the early 90's, and one year it was revealed that his compensation was $600,000 - and a brand new Lexus as a "performance bonus". He was on the golf course by three pm every single day. That was the hospital where the woman who was being "monitored" (alarms and all that) was found very cold and dead after a delay of who knows how many hours.

Thank you, Ishabaka, for telling it like it really is. Needless to say, ObamaCare (the Orwellian-named Affordable Care Act--ACA) purposefully ignores everything that is fundamentally broken with U.S. sickcare and extends the soaring-cost cartel system, essentially promising to stripmine the taxpayers of however many trillions of dollars are needed to generate outsized profits for the cartels.

Only those with no exposure to the real costs of ObamaCare approve of the current sickcare system. Government employees who have no idea how much their coverage costs, well-paid shills and toadies like Paul Krugman, academics with tenure and lifetime healthcare coverage--all these people swallow the fraud whole and declare it delicious.

Only those of us who are paying the real, unsubsidized cost know how unsustainable the system is, and only those inside the machine know how broken it is at every level. Greed + cartels = Sickcare/ObamaCare. Love your servitude, baby--it's affordable, really, really, really it is.


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Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:43 | 4432860 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Never forget that this mess was planned.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:47 | 4432871 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, TPTB want a single-payer system, and by god, once everyone is bankrupt, they will get it...

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:09 | 4432969 zaphod
zaphod's picture

What we are living through is a complete breakdown of the original sytem within US which focused on independance & self sufficiency tied together through english common law. 

In its place we are witnessing the buildup of a highly corrupt and centralized system which favors only the connected and maintains power through dividing the populace and encouraging dependance on the state.

Over the past couple of years I have come to realize that this trend will not reverse itself and the US will diminish (much in the way England has, god that place has gone to hell). I am honestly stuck on what to do about it, there is going to be no revolution (either through peaceful political change or something else), so what other options are we left with.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:10 | 4432989 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Duh!  Prepare for ruin and violence, obviously!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4433030 zaphod
zaphod's picture

There will be no ruin and violence, just a quiet diminishing.

If there was ruin and violence then there would be something to kick start change, which is why quiet diminishing is the worse of all paths because it takes advantage of our apathy.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:41 | 4433135 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Absolutely right.  There will be no ruin or violence.....(well...maybe small, isolated pockets of ruin and violence).  But concerning the violence....the Feds have an answer for that.  Enough ammo purchased lately to shoot every man, woman and child in this country 12 time and have enough left over to reload and try again in case the first 12 shots didn't do the trick.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:57 | 4433220 graneros
graneros's picture

I don't think it will be a quiet diminishing.  We already are seeing violence and the ruin of our cities.  It has been on a steady increase for some years now.  People are just so used to it and we have this collective tendency to stick our heads in the sand and not pay attention until it hits our neighborhood. Take a good hard look at Detroit, New Orleans, Baltimore, St. Louis, Gary, IN, Chicago, most of Southern CA...  I could keep going but you get my meaning.

We are so numb to the violence and ruin taking place all around this nation on a daily basis that you can write a comment like you did and actually beleive it is a true statement.  I am not coming down on you Zaphod, didn't even give you a red arrow,  I respect your opinion and may have even thought that way myself at one point but now... not so much.  Will TSHTF all at once? No, I don't think we will wake up one morning and find zombies are running loose in the streets.  Myself I beleive TSHTF a while back and is spewing all around us.  Incrementally more and more people will be hit by said shit.  It will be a slower burn but it will defintely be accompanied by increased violence. As far as ruin goes?  Well, we are already there. The nation is kaput and I see no one from either the Red or Blue team with an inkling of what to do.  As far a kickstart to change goes?  If the people haven't pulled out their pitchforks by now they never will.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:27 | 4433354 max2205
max2205's picture

Who needs a death panel, just go to the hospital. If your over 65 odds are about 35% that you leave above room temperature

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:30 | 4433356 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Thanks for the reply, I think we are largely in agreement. By quiet diminishing I mostly meant a situation which is just not bad enough to kick start real change across the majority. As you said, if people haven't pulled out pitchforks by now, it is not happening.

I like your "slow burn" description, it is probably more accurate than quiet diminishing for many of the parts of the US you listed. At the same time many parts of the US are still relatively nice but are being dragged down by the policies placed around them, these are the parts that I was referring to with the quietly diminish description.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 18:46 | 4434148 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

thats how you keep the frogs in the pot, by slowly turning up the heat. cant throw them in there at a rolling boil

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:44 | 4433157 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Zaphod....concerning your cogent and correct assesment of the breakdown of the original U.S. system.  It began breaking down the moment the Federalists won the debate on the role of the Federal Government over the objections of the Anti-Federalists right after the Revolution.

Long time in the making.....but now we have reached the platau of the roller-coaster.  It's all down hill and fast from here.


Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:44 | 4439834 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

The old American WASP elite was replaced by a hostile elite. Quite simply, they were too altruistic and inclusive for their own good. A foreign element was given succor, and in a short time has managed to spread corruption throughout the nation. The Constitution was rendered unto Admiralty jurisdiction, Common Law was replaced by the UCC, Lawful Money was replaced by Federal Reserve notes, the Free Press was consolidated under central corporate control, and the University system suborned to spread their propaganda. This is where the battlefield stands today. But--

Their Corporation is not Our Republic. And we will take our country back.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:53 | 4432904 Landotfree
Landotfree's picture

Every version of the system is fatally flawed.  This version is by far the best based on size and based on the potential collapse and liquidation.   Of course, the ones that will be liquidated would replace the word "best", with "most horrible" in the future.

The fraudulent medical industry rides on top of the fraudulent financial system.   Without a fraudulent financial system most people would not be able to even see a doctor let alone get 24 hour care.  Hostipals back in the day were basically a place for the sick to die, care, hahah, in general did not exist way back in the day.  Familes filled the vold. 

Once the liquidating gets going in full force... they will be throwing those people out of those hostipals or in the alternative just pulling the plug like they did during Hurricane Katrina.


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4433031 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Old Hospitals were built at minimal cost,

Modern Hospitals are built like Five-Star Hotels and Palaces for Emperor doctors.

Now everyone pays for that luxury overhead cost of hospitals,

with $20 aspirin tablets and $900 bags of saline solution,

$500 per hour hospital doctors.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:32 | 4433098 Landotfree
Landotfree's picture

The medical industry has grown as the global financial system has grown, one problem, the system will eventually be unable to expand to pay for the prior.... "money for nothing and your chicks for free"   

$20 aspirin is just the fraud on top of the fraud... .remove the fraud and the hostipals that exist today will not exist tomorrow.   

The price will be paid in the lives of the walking unfunded liabilities one the collapse and liquidation starts.

In europe during the last liquidation phase... they were dumping crops at sea in a disperate move to try and get prices up... at the same time people were going hungry.   Eventually, there will be nowhere to get care not because there is no sick, but because there is no expansion of the fraudulent financial credit system.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:33 | 4433873 InflammatoryResponse
InflammatoryResponse's picture

enough with the 20 dollar aspirin spaz you two.


you go to the grocery store to buy a bottle of aspirin.  perhaps 3 people have touched that WHOLE bottle.  All of whom can be minimally educated.




at a hospital here is how it goes.


1) Doctor prescribes the aspirin  EDUCATION 10 years

2) in the past but not as much now with the more electronic systems a Nurse places teh order with the pharmacy   EDUCATION 4 YEARS

3) in the Pharmacy the pharm tech gets the order  probably 2 YEAR cert. or 4yr degree

4) Pharmacist checks against other meds for the patient(lots of this is more automated now)   Pharm  7 years including BS degree

5) Nurse delivers meds


steps 1 through 5 are all directly involved to varying degrees

Oh, but I left out:

Biomedical Engineering deptartment  all 4yr degrees that keep the systems etc. running

huge janitorial staff to keep the place clean(no illegals named JOSE in this area, unlike at the groc store)

Left out the admin folks that maintain all of hte records for when the Joint Commission folks roll in to certify the hospital.

They are also trying to manage cost shifting, so anybody that pays pays for those that don't



NOW do you understand a 20 buck aspirin?


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 20:28 | 4434523 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You forgot the 15 indigent or illegal patients that paid nothing for their care per one person who did. This is a much greater problem than the overhead of which you spoke.


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:29 | 4435004 tunnelvizn
tunnelvizn's picture

And not a one of them added any fucking value to the aspirin . 


Doc : Here take this aspirin

Patient : OK - I feel better

Done .  Where is the need for the rest ?  No where but some but in some scammer's dream - a Rube Goldberg vision . 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:22 | 4433330 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Not only that. I live in WA, and medical buildings are enormous and they're everywhere. Just the maintenance/carrying costs of the healthcare infrastructure must be enormous. Each office in every one of them has 2-3 people working the front desk. A staggering number of people work in those buildings who have no direct connection to providing health care.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:06 | 4435141 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Meh, those insurance forms (now Obamacare) ain't gonna fill themselves out!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:53 | 4432905 BandGap
BandGap's picture

And unfortunately the plan is working.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:54 | 4432909 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

Indeed.  TPTB are calling the in the chips.  Their plan to move all wealth from the middle class to themselves and nudge along the poor with enough welfare to keep them quiet is going along quite nicely.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:56 | 4432933 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

ObummerCare is first and foremost a TAX.

Feds need revenues and they'll take it while pretending to deliver healthcare.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:17 | 4433044 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

ObamaCare is a subsidy for Insurance companies and Hospitals.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:18 | 4433052 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

That too.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:06 | 4433736 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Hey you stole that conspiracy theory from our Supreme Court

Anyone who knows anything about healthcare and the insurance industry called this for what it was from the beginning.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:56 | 4432923 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

Who cares.  Amican Idol is on.  Yea.  And in a few weeks March Madness.  Big Yea.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:58 | 4433227 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Don't forget mardi gras where all the drunk females go to show their tits!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:06 | 4433737 robertsgt40
robertsgt40's picture

I can tell you first hand this doc is right on target.  I've spent over 25yrs in the biz. I was an orthopedic rep and spent a lot of time in surgery in the early 90s.  The biggest cartel I came accross was HCA.  Rotten to the core. We called HCA the "Pac-Man" of hospital aquisitions. Once profit becomes the driving force, everything else turns to sht. 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 00:53 | 4435420 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture



Fri, 02/14/2014 - 00:57 | 4435421 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture



Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:44 | 4432869 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The ACA has accomplished for the "healthcare" and insurance companies what The Federal Reserve Act accomplished for the big banks...

another cash cow/monopoly.

Say it with me, you know you want to...

roll the motherfucking guillotines, nothing changes otherwise.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:15 | 4433305 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

It's interesting that the modus operandi of the cartels is the same - to stripmine most or all of the wealth of the middle class. You get sick and go to the hospital and are presented with a $50K bill. You can't get a decent job without a college degree - that will be $50K a year please. Can't pay, then take a student loan and be a debt serf for life.

The problem for the cartels is you can only impoverish someone once. If all my money goes to college tuition, I can't pay that $50K hospital bill. At some point (soon?) the cartels will have stripmined every one they can stripmine. That's when the whole ponzi collapses.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 18:06 | 4434008 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"At some point (soon?) the cartels will have stripmined every one they can stripmine."

That applies to the whole planet!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:50 | 4432883 texas sandman
texas sandman's picture

We've never had a healthcare system's always been a health care financing problem.


Get rid of pharma-big medicine protections under Sherman and Clayton Acts...get rid of all 3rd party payors...make it a true free market of healthcare, not healthcare insurance...and watch prices fall 80-90%.  If a heart procedure that costs over $100, 000 here can be done for under $1, 500 in India, it can be done here, but only if we get KStreet out of the way.  


Good luck with that.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4432896 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That's still too complicate.  Here, allow me to simplify;  If you make poor choices regarding your health then YOU should pay for the fucking consequences of those choices, not someone else.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:54 | 4432914 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Yeah, that was my down arrow and a minus 100 for you too, ahole. You should check yourself, son.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:00 | 4432942 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LMFAO!  Another liberal fuck who wants someone else to pay for their poor choices. 

< Meh > Sorry asshat, the laws of Nature and physics really don't give a shit what you "think" or "believe".

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:03 | 4432953 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You think poor health is only bad life choices?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:04 | 4432963 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No, you think the majority of people are making smart health choices?

That must be why so many americans are fat asses. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:05 | 4432979 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

No argument on the fat asses!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:29 | 4433082 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Agree on the personal choices LOP.

What if it wasn't your choice?

Genetics? Thalidomide a perfect example.

Autism is rising at a rate of 50% every 5 yrs due to RF/EMF exposure. Is being blanketed by both with smart meters & cell towers a choice?

It's more complicated than starving lard asses.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:32 | 4433100 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Life is hard, always has been, always will be.  be a fucking adult and suck it the fuck up.

However, one thing is for sure, if people made better choices, the energy and resources to deal with those things that are not your choice might actually be available.

What a novel fucking concept huh?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:00 | 4433228 Doctor of Reality
Doctor of Reality's picture

Just had a 66 y/o pt. today who's lost 160lbs and is now OFF all medications. So... LIFESTYLE has almost everything to do with health. I say insurance should be for accidents and not lifestyle choices.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:59 | 4433467 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Absolutely there is a difference between equality and equivalence. Care part is the equivalence the equal part is accidents/shit happens vs poor lifestyle choices.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:19 | 4433835 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

There are a great number of real doctors who have concluded that diet and lifestyle are responsible for almost everything. That it prevents and cures cancer along with just about every other disease. While it's true some stuff is the result of genetics or bad luck, that is a small, very small percentage. Not the heardest concept to "swallow" given that we are living breathing animals on a living breathing planet trying to survive in what is quickly becoming a strange, poisoned, crowded and depleted environment.

The last thing the medical and drug industry and Monsanto want you to know is that fact. Add to that your government. Oh wait, they work for those guys.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 01:59 | 4435568 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Absolutely. Last week WebMD & Lancet said that Vite D supplements do no good. Hogwash, it's at the top of he pyramid responsible for 200 functions in the body. Deficiencies linked to auto-immune diseases, osteoporosis & many more.

There's a very clear disinfo campaign in progress. 

Nefarious indeed. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:29 | 4433364 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

The energy & resources are distributed as TPTB see fit. You're deluding yourself on that one.

See medical protocols from your Ivy's designed to keep you in their clutches.

The medical system is a copy of the penal system only without physical bars.

Man you got a big fucking burr under you saddle today. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:13 | 4433516 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit.  Go talk to a homesteader, TPTB don't distribute shit to these folks.  Fucking wanker.

Like everything else, don't like your situtation, quite complaining and make different choices loser.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 01:54 | 4435556 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Damn LOP you're gonna have a fuckin stroke. 

How'd this get from medical to homesteading? Don't think I was complaining about my situation. 

BEING a homesteader i beg to differ with your knee jerk assessment.

You don't communicate worth a FF.

"read the fucking google"

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:55 | 4433197 Scoobywan
Scoobywan's picture

Autism rates are rising due to women having children later in life, and less stringent diagnosing definitions.

RF and EMF exposure play a much smaller role. RF and EMF have occured naturally on this planet since the beginning of time

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:35 | 4433377 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Really? I made an error. It's not 50% is doubling every 5 yrs. 

Late age child bareing? Not.

Read it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:11 | 4433508 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You are confusing autism with downs. I see MANY women in their twenties and early 30s with children with autism and other similar disorders. If you spent 5 minutes with these children you would know there was something not right about them. I admit they have changed the diagnostic criteria but even when evaluated in the strict sense the numbers are increasing. There are many theories why this is happening and my opinion it is far more likely to environmental rather than genetic.


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:47 | 4433936 InflammatoryResponse
InflammatoryResponse's picture


Actually, more likely it is a combination of later births, AND the tremendous numbers of ultrasounds the fetus is getting pouded with these days.


A neurology friend of mine heard a talk about that very thing last year.


think about it.  I have child #1  11 years ago....   had to GO to a place for the ultrasound


Child #2 4 years later...  Ultrasound system down the hall in the OB's office.


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 18:46 | 4434163 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

do you have any ata to substantiate your autism /rf/emf claims?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:07 | 4432973 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

You wingers use a brush so broad I'm suprised you can pick it up. Morons.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:10 | 4432991 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Are you saying that the majority of Americans are making smart choices regarding their behavior.  Please, present your evidence,  because I have a ton of evidence of Americans making stupid health care choices. 

You liberals like to make just make shit up.  Morons.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:12 | 4433003 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I'm saying I'm tired of red meat winger bullshit. What a bunch of fucking clowns.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4433021 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

How is people making smart choices regarding what they eat, and the behaviors they enaged in "red meat winger bullshit"?

Waiting for an answer fucknut...

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:45 | 4433149 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

KMA, winger.  I don't argue with retards riding the hate machine. Grow a brain with some common sense and get back to me.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:51 | 4433183 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So you have nothing.  Got it. Shut the fuck up.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:19 | 4433327 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

You're dealing with a hunter-gatherer mindset where if they don't all care for each other, they will all perish.

Unfortunately, his moral settings aren't in tune with the fact that his tribe is not 150 mostly related people that were highly dependent on each other, but 7+ billion people of no relation that are only dependent through trading.

That mindset was wired in over a couple million years and it isn't going to go away quietly.

Neither is the conservatives hard-wiring obedience to authority and community going away soon.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:15 | 4433529 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Please, you know no more about my tribe than I about yours.  Our community is just fine.  Stop talking out your ass.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:20 | 4433047 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"You liberals like to make just make shit up."

Watch who you're calling a 'liberal', fucker.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:23 | 4433070 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Here's what you said fucknut -"You think poor health is only bad life choices?"

Show me where I say that poor health is "only due to bad life choices"?

Hint; I never said it asshat. ergo, you're making shit up.

If you want to be taken seriously, don't make shit up.

Pretty fucking simple really.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:28 | 4433083 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Another liberal fuck who wants someone else to pay for their poor choices." -- LawsofPhysics

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:39 | 4433128 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Again, I never said "poor health is only bad life choices?"

Reading comphrehension is clear no your strong suit so I let you off the hook asshat.

Yes there are genetic disorders etc., but just imagine the energy and resources that could be brought to bear on "the unlucky" if all the fat ass, lazy fucks were using all those resources.

Try to actually think about that you stupid fuck.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:48 | 4433169 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I was seeking clarification (notice the question mark?)

Your problem is you think you're the only guy who can think.

I'd argue that to the degree you toss around labels that maybe you don't think so much.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:52 | 4433196 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

A simple apology will do.  Like I said, imagine the resources that could be brought to bare on those diseases of the "unlucky".

What you (or I) "argue", "think", or "feel" is going to be largely irrelevant when it comes to healthcare or the "unlucky".

It is what it is, get the fuck over yourself.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:10 | 4433287 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

."...get the fuck over yourself."

I find that the theory of projection is one of the most reliable theories in psychology.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:19 | 4433542 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Again, What you (or I) "argue", "think", "feel", or "find" is going to be largely irrelevant when it comes to healthcare or the "unlucky". Psych?  Personally I would have chosen a different, more employable major.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:20 | 4433559 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Retired electrician, final position General Foreman.

Nice try though.  Close.  Very close.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:23 | 4433568 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Must be a slow day.  We are idle due to frozen ground.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:46 | 4433657 Moustache Rides
Moustache Rides's picture

Maybe if you call them fucks and asshats more they'll understand you.  You're a kid... go play xbox or something and let the big boys talk.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:40 | 4433858 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:01 | 4432949 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"If you make poor choices regarding your health then YOU should pay for the fucking consequences of those choices, not someone else."


I can't hit the up arrow enough. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:08 | 4432981 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yes, because if everyone would just take their health seriously they will never get sick, never be injured, and live forever and ever and ever; or at least just die suddenly and, most importantly, cheaply.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:13 | 4433018 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't know if you have met LOP. He has been here a while. Notice he does not say "roll the motherfucking slaps on the wrists".  I think his point is if everyone would just take their health seriously a shitload less people would not get sick, get injured etc. etc. The system would be more sustainable. But since we have a country of unhealthy fatasses zooming around on their scooters that are taxpayer subsidized, we will ride this socialist wave till it's logical conclusion.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:47 | 4433165 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I can agree with that point.

As to your riding "this socialist wave till it's logical conclusion."  Well, Obamacare is in reality a whole lot more fascism than socialism IMO; I doubt the following is the 'logical conclusion' you meant:

Norwegains may not be millionaires…
Sure, like anyone else they got 99 problems, but national debt peonage ain’t one.

“You know what I am? I’m (a neoliberal’s) worst f-ing nightmare, man: a (mixed economy) with a (national balance sheet deep in the black).” -Eddie Murphy (parsed)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:50 | 4433187 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Fair enough. There is no point to these arguments anymore. To debate them creates the sense that they are fixable and at this point they are not. As long as this is a LOP based thread then I think his conclusion is one I can agree with, which is "that which cannot be sustained, won't be". We are all just passing treading water as we watch people around us drown one by one.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:16 | 4433025 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Not to mention you can hardly take a bite of anything that isn't laced with chemicals and other toxins courtesy of Monsanto and Co. I suppose everyone could quit their jobs and go into full time organic farming.......

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:25 | 4433077 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Well it would certainly be one way to stick it to the man.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:22 | 4433560 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Exactly, and if you were good, you might even get some of your neighbor involved.  What s novel concept to become more independent.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:18 | 4433039 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I say nothing about getting sick etc.

Reading comphrehension isn't your strong suit obviously.

Are you suggesting that the majority of Americans are making smart decisons with respect to what the eat, what the drink, how often they excercise?

Please, show me the evidence or shut the fuck up.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:27 | 4433081 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Let me guess: you and fonz are the boy scouts roaming around wearing your hockey helmets all the time.

Gotta 'Be prepared', and all that cal.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:39 | 4433114 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So, you're saying you got nothing. I thought so, shut the fuck up.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:11 | 4433277 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

No, I'm making the point that the line you're trying to draw is completely arbitrary.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:19 | 4433556 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, much like getting sick or hurt.  Thanks for helping.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 19:29 | 4433881 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

... in which case(s) you'll be more than willing to put your nickel in the drum for the plain unlucky, just so long as you're certain it was no fault of their own?

Yeah, that's what you were getting at the whole time; either that or you owe Ignatius one helluvan elaborate apology.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:53 | 4433963 InflammatoryResponse
InflammatoryResponse's picture



I don't think anybody here that is arguing for people making better health related choices/decisions is proposing that nobody would get sick, etc.


However, if you take a look at healthcare spending on preventable diseases/conditions  we spend BILLIONS, not includeing lost work time etc.

the effects Smoking , Diabetes, heart disease   can mostly be completely elmiinated.


if you smoke you're placing a big burden on the system.


if you're a fatass you're going to get diabetes eventually, and then ahve numerous chronic and expensive problems.




Thu, 02/13/2014 - 20:07 | 4434248 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Great. Thanks for comin' out.

At the risk of opening a whole other can of worms: every deck of luckies is taxed, no? That's an extra tax that non-smokers do not pay; should cover at least some of the implied costs.

But just so we understand each other: like Law Of Physics, are you suggesting that if people didn't smoke, and maintained what satisfies your personal definition of a healthy lifestyle, you are more than willing to subscribe to a state funded health care system?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:53 | 4432920 texas sandman
texas sandman's picture

And the only way you do that is to get 3rd party payors out of the picture.  Period.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:56 | 4432921 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Perhaps in Libertarian fantasyland,   but what about people who are just unlucky?

The reason we have socialism is because there are roughly as many "nice" people - who would disagree with you - as "mean" people who think like you.

So, the "nice" people point at the "mean" people to justify their socialism.   Think of the children.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:03 | 4432958 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

" but what about people who are just unlucky?"  -  Define unlucky. Choosing to smoke, drink, or engage in stupid behvaior is not "unlucky".

Life is hard, sorry, it always has been and will always be.  Be an adult and deal with it by making smart choices.  Let me guess, you think it's also possible to outlaw gravity?  Good luck with that.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:07 | 4432985 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Let me guess, you think it's also possible to outlaw gravity? 

No, and let me guess:  you - for some reason - can't comprehend the word unlucky.

Let's try this again.    There are as many "nice" people as "mean" people.   The "nice" people wouldn't agree with you.

Some "nice" people even "think" that society exists to "help" other members of society.   You know, that "social" socialism thing.  

That's why we have "socialist" medical care for the worthless OldFarts.   Because (for reasons I can't comprehend) society wants to keep these losers alive longer than they naturally should.    But, that's those "nice" people for ya. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:12 | 4433011 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Don't dance around the facts dipshit.

Do you or don't you think the majority of Americans are making choices regarding their health?

If yes, present the fucking evidence or shut the fuck up.

I have plenty of evidence that the majority of Americans are not.

FYI- when someone picks the winners and losers that is called fascism.

What a fucking moron, must be another fat-ass in need of a bypass.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:29 | 4433087 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Talk about dancing...

Let's try this again (for those with "meanness" OCD).

There are as many "nice" people as "mean" people.   The "nice" people wouldn't agree with you.

Some "nice" people even "think" that society exists to "help" other members of society.   You know, that "social" socialism thing.  

That's why we have "socialist" medical care for the worthless OldFarts.   Because (for reasons I can't comprehend) society wants to keep these losers alive longer than they naturally should.    But, that's those "nice" people for ya. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:40 | 4433134 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So, you have no intellectual contributions, got it.  Another copy and paste moron.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:46 | 4433154 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

"Mean" OCD is a bitch.    But, so is "nice" OCD.  

Eventually, you'll be able to comprehend your OCD.  

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:55 | 4433214 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No capacity for critical thinking, we got it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:39 | 4433117 monad
monad's picture

The reason for socialism is to trick well meaning people like you into slavery. Look at their track record. Divide and rule, tax, spend and scraps for you. if you're 'lucky'. 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:45 | 4433145 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Look at their track record. Divide and rule, tax, spend and scraps for you. if you're 'lucky'. 

It's the only system that exists.   

The smart-n-savvy screw the dumbasses.   In the US the top 10% own 90% of the nation's wealth and it's "Divide and rule, tax, spend and scraps for you. if you're 'lucky'" for the bottom 70% (or so) trash-class who spends most of their time worrying about other members of the trash-class getting any scraps.

But, the trash-class are stupid, so they deserve to die.  Survival of the fittest bitchez!   Too bad about your kids.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:51 | 4432902 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  make it a true free market of healthcare, not healthcare insurance

Well, the purpose of government is to ensure that the smart-n-savvy people who own the government don't have to worry about this "free market" crap.

Competition is overrated.   Monopolies are best.   (Well,  competition is great for the dumbasses, that's why we create bullshit for them to keep completing and to love competing.   The dumbasses are just too easy to screw sometimes...)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:12 | 4432996 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

yes, in a true free market healthcare, we wouldnt have to put up with cheap chinese nipples.

Michelle Kolath-Arbel squeezes a nipple, rolling it in her fingers with a look of mild disgust.

we could afford pink perfect nipples that husbands like very much. like this enterprising lady:

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:26 | 4433072 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  in a true free market healthcare

The words "in a true free market" is nothing but policial OCD bullshit talk; like True Socialism or Communism.

You can't a MORAL system (which is what the word "true" always means to the semi-austists who spew the "TRUE" word) when you have sociopathic humans in huge numbers as our society does (and all others do to).

"True free markets" only exists in Libertarian fantasyland, which - like socialist fantasyland - doesn't have any smart-n-savvy sociopaths who manipulate dumbasses with bullshit so they can screw them.

When you tell me HOW you are going to keep the sociopaths from fucking people, then tell me about your "true" economy.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:55 | 4432930 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

We couldn't be moving in a more opposite direction and it's reflected in prices.   What a disaster these democrats have stuck us with.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:21 | 4433056 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  What a disaster these democrats have stuck us with.

Yeah, the OldFarts that have been kept alive on Medicare for generations are really pissed at the democrats.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:59 | 4432938 BandGap
BandGap's picture

My brother took his wife to Costa Rica for a very complicated surgery. It was also novel and a new instrument was being used. He got all the tests and diagnosis from US doctors and downloaded these on a thumb drive, all legal. Then he shopped around.

He paid 25000 out of pocket for a procedure that would have cost AT LEAST 500K here in the states. Most of this would have been picked up by insurance, but he figures it would ahve run him close to 100K after all was said and done. You know how he got those numbers? Because there were 17 US surgeons in the operating theatre watching this new procedure with the instrumentation. The Costa Rican surgical team was TRAINING the US doctors. My brother spoke to them as was required to get feedback regarding the procedure.

When you can answer why a 25K procedure costs >500K here in the states you get a big gold star.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4433032 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

When you can answer why a 25K procedure costs >500K here in the states you get a big gold star.

Because the U.S. system is loaded with parasites that have nothing what so ever to do with the actual procedure.

Star please :)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:27 | 4433080 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Because the U.S. system is loaded with parasites

Please...   The top 20% doesn't like being called parasites.

The parasites are the govenment workers and "those people".   The top 10% are the risk takers and job creators that made this great-n-glorious country great-n-glorious.

You've just insulted EVERYONE at my TBTF financial INSTITUTION (say that with a low respectful voice, please) who sell very fine insurance products to HELP people succeed in todays complex world.  

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:11 | 4433290 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Gold Star it is.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 20:41 | 4434567 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Actually Texas sandman, I'd say simply just get government regulation out of healthcare. This has astronomically shot up costs even before Obamacare. People freak out at the idea of this that the quality of care would diminish. I don't think so. When I started in my field when there was far less regulation and care was excellent. If you were incompetent, you were fired. I now work with many incompetent people who have nearly killed people and because of their minority status or age, they are merely " counseled" . If my loved ones were in the hospital depending on their expertise I would do the work myself unpaid.

Private insurance worked well in the 70s and 80s. A catastrophic low cost plan and personal responsibility for daily care would be my idea of a good start. But for the millions of obese, chronically ill, scooter riders, this probably wouldn't work.


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4432911 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

Bipolar Survey Professionals Inc.


Check the circle next to the phrase that reflects most accurately your opinion:


O … boy, it’s to bad that guy Bernanke left. Things were going so well… 

O … I’m about to sell the gold I’ve accumulated. That was a big mistake… 

O … next congress will be much better. That pendulum has to swing back sometime…

O … these executive orders sure get things done. We’re on the right path now…

O … is it just me or are we getting one good news after another these days…

O … and thank God for Obamacare…



P.S. If you fail to check a box you will be added by default to the tinfoil hat category.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:14 | 4433026 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

… as I get my first down arrow I realize one idiot already tried to check a circle…

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:55 | 4432915 anefarious1
anefarious1's picture

Find out your Obamacare penalty then come back to ZH and really rant. Obama is set to now steal your after tax income and give it to the big insurance companies because hey it is only fair.

You now have a "Shared Responsiblity Payment" no kidding!



Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:00 | 4432939 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:   really rant

In a few years I'm going to be on the Big-OldFart medicare scam.     Then, the only thing I'll rant about, is how I'm not on socialism but I'm ENTITED to that free hip-replacement surgery because I paid for that and why don't all you goddamn hippy freeloaders get a job and pay for your health insurance instead of living off the goverment.  And get a goddamn haircut.

(Isn't it funny how everybody loves their own socialism?)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:59 | 4435121 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Ayn Rand couldn't have said it better herself as she took another drag on a Rothman and checked herself in for publicly funded lung cancer treatments under her husband's name (for whatever reason)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:45 | 4433150 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

That is so full of loopholes it's ridiculous.

Medicare=Property Seizure by the state

Victim of domestic Violence=Increased Rates.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 17:40 | 4433904 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Funny thing about that web site, they do not say who they are/represent and when you right click nothing happens.

uh huh... winger world.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:57 | 4432929 D-Fens
D-Fens's picture

I'm a physician and I'm sort of ambivalent about this.

The fact is, nobody believes in the old models anymore.  You are mistaken if you think we are going back to some sort of robust, locally funded model for healthcare.  The money isn't there anymore and nobody wants to do the dirty work.  Heck I don't believe in it.  I'm not going to work myself to death to relieve the many ills of the citizens of this decadent empire.  Most honest physicians would agree.  If any physician out there tells you it's a "calling," they are in it for the good of humanity and will tirelessly work 24/7 for little pay, they are lying.  That is the truth, take it or leave it.

It's just sort of going to break down.  It already is.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:00 | 4432950 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Thank you for your honesty. It reinforces what I have already seen and heard.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:02 | 4432951 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

You mean the Libertarian fantasy that doctors are putting up more and more websites advertising to do cancer surgery in exchange for a basket of chicken eggs or a goat isn't true?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:48 | 4433172 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

you must be new you think ZHers are unaccustomed to trolls?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:56 | 4433204 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  you must be new here

You must be a dumbass.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:04 | 4432968 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

How much is an x-ray?

I asked that once and received a deer-in-the-headlights look which then changed to one of: you-must-be-crazy.

Of course, I wasn't given a direct answer.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:01 | 4432945 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Something certainly changed because 20 years ago you never heard hospitals ADVERTISING on television and radio.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:23 | 4433069 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

20 years ago the boomers were younger

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:02 | 4432946 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

it sucks to be young in the usa

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:24 | 4433063 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

at least you youngins will be able to run from the zombies.


you ainT gotta run faster than the zombies,

you only gotta out run me.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:00 | 4432947 replaceme
replaceme's picture

In a rare moment of clarity it came to me that this was the exact same plan as for the bankers - reward their bad behavior with the full faith and credit of the government.  Make sure all the important people got obscenely well compensated.   I moved a fair portion of my 401k into healthcare funds, and they responded like I expected.  I'm not proud of getting on board, but I also knew I'd be pissed if I let that money be made w/out me.

Who's next, cell phone carriers?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:04 | 4432962 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Well, here's the current list:  Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState – and (now) Big-Space.

Why not cell-phone carriers?   How much does a politician cost these days?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:03 | 4432964 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Things must be getting real bad. I'm now getting unsolicited texts from my eye doctor and dentist trying to talk me into coming in for a visit/checkup. Never had this happen before !!!!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:13 | 4433015 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'm cash and carry on my dental.  Had some work on a tooth and a year later they wanted follow-up.  I said "Why?  Everything is fine."  She describes some special new tool that takes a 3d picture or some such only $200.  "Can I frame and mount it?", I say, and before she could answer I politely declined.  They got some new wiz-bang toy and they clearly have to make payments on it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:19 | 4433042 replaceme
replaceme's picture

I had a come to jesus w/ my dentist about calling me with special deals - they called to tell me their specials on crowns, and didn't I have one I was putting off?  I don't know if that means they're struggling or their new model is just that much more aggressive.  Maybe ObamaDent is next.  TM pending.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:07 | 4432965 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

All this porcine program needs is a new shade of lipstick...

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:04 | 4432967 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Go offline.  Make yourself unavailable in the Don Juan sense.  Study grey markets.  Pull cash out and buy silver.  Abandon all hope for the creeping meatball that you were told was the system; because it is going to gurgle out in the next few decades but the death will be protracted and its death throes will seek to pull every healthy being nearby down with it.  Abandon hope, anger, emotion because it's just a Loosh Farm and your emotion feeds it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:05 | 4432974 Duc888
Duc888's picture







with a smattering of implied services to maybe be rendered....or not.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:06 | 4432980 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

Anyone remeber mutual insurance companies? Back in the days the policyowners owned the company. I never remember anyone complaing about costs or care under that system. This country is hopelessly lost.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:09 | 4432997 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  This country is hopelessly lost.

It's been a predator society for generations now.

Hell,  we can't even figure out a moral reason to outlaw predatory lending to stupid people.    What kind of society allows sociopaths to openly fuck stupid people?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:14 | 4433010 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

A Marxist Bolshevik society.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:07 | 4433261 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bingo.  And by the way, this is the exact opposite of what most progressively-educated fucks have been taught.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:09 | 4432987 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Our health care system was broken before Obamacare. Then Obama used the Heritage Foundation method of reform and it remains broken.

Only single-payer will fix it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:16 | 4433022 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Sure it will. Take at look at the VA. VA currently under attack from CONgress for the being the mismanaged government POS that it is...

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:14 | 4433023 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Only single-payer will fix it.

So,  an existing hopelessly corrupt government run by sociopaths, running a single payer system, will fix things how?

Now, if you said that the states running 50 different single-payer state systems would fix thing then you'd be onto something.

The sociopaths would STILL try to run things, but at least you'd have SOME CHANCE that one of the states would actually not be so corrupt that it wouldn't create a system to screw its citizens.   The only defense the normal people have against the highly evolved sociopaths is to keep the spread out and competing with each other instead of collectively screwing us.

We already know the Federal government exists to screw its citizens, so why would you want to make it more powerful?


Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:32 | 4433375 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Here's what would happen with single payer - the govt would relentlessly try to squeeze costs. For doctors and nurses, the hours would go up and the pay would go down. All the good doctors and nurses would go into private practice for rich people who would pay them in cash. The govt-run single payer system would provide "healthcare" to all (non-rich) citizens, you would be risking your life every time you went to a govt medical facility.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:33 | 4433096 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

total bullshit, but I see you have the talking points down

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:08 | 4432993 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Hey Doc, can we work something out? How about you stitch up this nasty cut on my hand for $5. Morgan dollars that is. Waddaya say?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:12 | 4433001 bratlever
bratlever's picture

Somehow sickcare is the fault of money grabbing hospitals?  Insurance companies and drug manufacturers get out without a mention. I suspect hospitals and doctors are part of a chicken or the egg argument.  Everyone wants to earn more and certainly doctors and hospitals have smart people looking for new ways to get paid more.

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