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World's Largest Solar Plant Comes Online
Submitted by Charles Kennedy via OilPrice.com,
The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System officially came online on February 13, becoming the world’s largest source of solar power. With a capacity of 392 megawatts, the solar system will be able to generate enough power for 140,000 homes in California. The $2.2 billion Ivanpah project is located in the Mojave Desert and is a joint venture by NRG Energy, Google, and Brightsource Energy. Secretary of Energy Ernest Moniz toured the plant today with NRG CEO David Crane.
Ivanpah uses concentrated solar power (CSP), which uses hundreds of thousands of mirrors to reflect the sun towards a tower. This heats a boiler in the tower, which creates steam to drive turbines and make electricity.
The project received a $1.6 billion loan guarantee from the U.S. Department of Energy, helping the project developer, Brightsource Energy, to finance the project. Ivanpah is seen as a milestone for the solar power, as it can consistently generating electricity on a large-scale. It is also a sign of progress for the solar industry, which is rapidly growing and bringing down costs. Although solar power only makes up about 1% of total electricity generation, it now employs 140,000 people, more than the coal industry’s almost 90,000.
Yet future growth in solar will likely not come from CSP technology, which is expensive and requires a lot of land. Ivanpah fought for years with environmentalists concerned about the effect on desert wildlife. Replicating projects on the scale of Ivanpah is probably not likely, particularly in areas with greater densities of people and less sun exposure. Instead, rooftop photovoltaic solar power may be the preferred technology, generating solar on site without the need for long distance transmission. Costs for rooftop solar are rapidly declining, and will likely grow exponentially in the coming years. However, the speed at which solar expands will depend on incentives from Congress, many of which are set to expire in 2016.
As WaPo goes on to note,
Ivanpah can be seen as a success story and a cautionary tale, highlighting the inevitable trade-offs between the need for cleaner power and the loss of fragile, open land. The California Energy Commission concluded that while the solar plant would impose “significant impacts on the environment ... the benefits the project would provide override those impacts.”
Such disputes are likely to continue for years as more companies seek to develop solar, wind and geothermal plants on land treasured by environmentalists who also support the growth of renewable energy. At issue is what is worth preserving and at what cost, as California pushes to generate more electricity from renewable sources.
...
Government documents show dozens of dead birds from sparrows to hawks have been found on the site, some with melted feathers. The suspected causes of death include collisions with mirrors and scorching. In November alone, 11 dead birds were found, including two, a blackbird and a warbler, with singed feathers.
The Western Watersheds Project is continuing to push a lawsuit against federal agencies that reviewed the Ivanpah project.
...
According to statistics compiled by the Energy Department, the solar industry employs more than 140,000 Americans at about 6,100 companies, with employment increasing nearly 20 percent since the fall of 2012.
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"Experts have estimated that electricity from giant solar projects will cost at least twice as much as electricity from conventional sources. But neither the utilities that have contracted to buy the power nor state regulators have disclosed what the price will be, only that it will be passed on to electricity customers"
"Utility-scale solar plants have come under fire for their costs–Ivanpah costs about four times as much as a conventional natural gas-fired plant but will produce far less electricity"
"Regulators said they anticipated that some birds would be killed once the Ivanpah plant started operating, but that they didn't expect so many to die during the plant's construction and testing. The dead birds included a peregrine falcon, a grebe, two hawks, four nighthawks and a variety of warblers and sparrows."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230470380457937923064...
How much does the average military base in the middle east, not to mention cruise missile, battleship group, etc run these days? But we can't factor that into the price of oil because it is not a direct subsidy.
What a silly comment
If you think that it was a silly comment, you do not have a fucking clue as to how the world really works...
Thanks for taking my flak, Flakmeister.
US military consumes roughly 20% of world oil production!
Divide that by 750 bases worldwide.
Estimates are more like 0.6 to 1.5%...
How many homes does a nuclear plant power?
How many homes does a nat gas/coal plant power?
and what greenhouse factor?
New solar technology will make this out of date in ten years.
The future could be 3D printed solar cells, more efficient, less compllcated cheaper to manufacture and especially to install.
Augustine Mouchot was using this technology to compress ammonia and make ice in 1878 in Paris. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mouchot1878x.jpg
5 square miles of equipment to produce power to 140,000 homes only during daylight hours
5 square miles / 140,000 = 1,000 square feet per home
$2.200.000.000 / 140,000 = $15,714
Single home solar panels on the top of the roof from $5,000 with wiring. Land wasted = ZERO
Give the solar panels away for free. Create manufacturing and trade jobs with parts of the grant. ONE THIRD to be exact. Allow home owners to have free solar power with a mandatory maintenance contract.
Graft, corruption is so rampant it is sickening.
WHY ARE THEY SO FUCKING STUPID???? JUST SHOOT ON SIGHT!
Self Sufficient Individual Homes is NOT what they want.
CENTRALLY CONTROLLED AND METERED is what they want.
Since Ever, For Ever.
Case in point. Net Metering - You pay RETAIL, They buy it from you WHOLESALE.
You are on your own, Get your energy foot print as low as you can. Insulation unsexy as it is, is still the best money saved investment.
That and Solar Hotwater generation will pay back in just a couple years.
Yep, my buddy figured that his tax free ROR on his attic reinsulation was 27% p.a.....
our 1930's row house had very little insulation, we fixed the attic up and sealed all the air leaks
and we burn about 1/2 a tank of oil this winter, usually we would burn 2 tank in an ordinary winter.
the oil company keeps calling saying'You must be out of oil", i tell them, i still have a 1/4 tank
it's making them crazy
Right you are. Just say Yes to Insulation.
Put all those billions of Faudia into insulation and we be some happy campers.
drink beer, heat home
http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/beer-can-solar-heater
You're not counting installation costs.
And it's not their money. It's your money they are spending, why would they care?
"...Give the solar panels away for free. Create manufacturing and trade jobs with parts of the grant. ONE THIRD to be exact. Allow home owners to have free solar power with a mandatory maintenance contract...."
Solar City, SCTY, is doing that.
https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ASCTY&ei=33X-UvC5JoH1wAPUAw
From http://www.solarcity.com/:
"Solar power can actually cost less than you pay now with low, predictable, locked-in rates. The savings can add up to thousands. You don’t need thousands to buy a solar power system, you only need a good roof, because solar panel installation is free."
They are creating jobs:
"
We're HiringCome join a rapidly growing company with opportunities for personal growth
http://www.solarcity.com/images/button.bg.png); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; background-position: 0px 0px; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;" href="http://www.solarcity.com/hr/careers.aspx">Apply Now
http://www.solarcity.com/company/
What Will MyElectricity Cost?
SolarCity makes it easy and affordable to
save with solar
http://www.solarcity.com/why-solarcity/
Officers and directors Elon R. Musk https://www.google.com/finance/images/zippy_right.gif); line-height: 1.3em; vertical-align: top; background-position: 50% 50%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;"> Chairman of the BoardSCTY went from $16.5 to $74 per share in the last 12 months. That is an Annual Money Multiplier, AMM, of 4.4848.
If you invested $10,000 12 months ago, you would have $44,848 now.
Go Long SCTY.
hm, most interesting http://scharts.co/1jkaClN
That is exactly what they don't want. Solar panels on every home.
Holy shit how would the utility companies make their billions?
That's a lot of glass to clean.
...and to replace (sand + gas + wind = replace)
Let's see how this nightmare turns out.
If we can scale up fusion massively a big data hydrogen economy maker society will be a Jetsons future.
In such an economy 100 years from now we will take our girlfriends on a weekend of moon sex. Imagine the positions and endurance at 1/4 g. Imagine the view out the window.
Remind of how you extract energy out of your fusion reactor? I'll be back in a while to check on your progress...
Solar powered testicle coils are the way to go man, free energy for all and your nut sack never crawls again!!!
Solar employs 140,000 people while producing 1 fucking percent of our electricity? I guess they came up with yet anothe welfare program. Fuck off govt....
140,000 at an avg wage of 50k per anum = 7 billion per year divided by 140,000 homes = . 50k per year per home for their solar power? And nothing yet for the infrastrucure? How crazy can shit get already?
usedandabused
And they have to pay all those taxes, too------and ssi---and workmans comp-----
and there would be 14 million more people working
shit, what would have to whine about if this was a wealth distribution plan that worked?
Off with their heads----we prefer to do it as rugged individuals!!!!
There is a LOT of solar energy wasting itself on the high desert areas and I think it's a reasonable thing to do to build up a couple of these scale plants and see how well it can be done. And not to sound like Paul Krugman or anything, but the answer to some of the problems here is moar, moar, moar! Relatively fewer birds get fried as the size of the mirror farm expands, as the birds have to come in over the perimeter. And more energy captured lets more of it be stored as heat to keep on generating power for twelve to maybe even seventy-two hours after the sun stops shining.
Does this ever win? Well, if the price of a barrel of oil or natgas equivalent goes over $200, then maybe. Or if this fear of CO2 were valid. But neither of these is the case.
Maybe ten smaller towers would do the job as well as one and fry fewer birds, also. And maybe the land under the mirrors can be used for - anything, from raising mushrooms to skateboard parks to section 8 housing. But any land with 250+ days sunshine, at an altitude above 2,000 feet, below about 40 degrees latitude - and not too far from urban consumption, certainly invites the thought that this be tried.
Housecats kill over 100,000 birds every year. Seriously.
I'm sure a 20 story office building, especially one with mirror finish, kills several birds a year just by standing there. Add them all up and that's a lot of birds. Lot of pigeons, anyway. And it's not like there's going to be a lot of birds within twenty miles of Ivanpah anyway. They can probably figure some kind of hacks to reduce the bird kill further, but it doesn't sound like a huge problem even now. At least it's not killing kittens or puppies.
I'm thinking they could man the perimeter with drone brigades to kill those assaulting birds before they get to the target area.
Turdorist birds scary stuff.
Not mine. They are on permanent lock down. They would love to get at the Gamble Quail in the front yard but they have to watch in anguish through the window. It is a tough life being pampered.
Ya, wait till you find their cachet of burglar tools & blueprints.
Fuck, mine are seriously behind, they're lucky to catch two or three......
1. Peak power demand is during peak output for this plant. More power is used when people are ar work producing products and services.
2. Lead acid batteries only give back 30 percent of the energy put into them. So it is a wasteful way to use energy.
3. Storing the heat in molten salt bath will reduce the power output. It makes the most sense to put all the power from this plant directly into the grid.
4. When it is cold it makes more sense to wear more clothes and put on more blankets.
They had some of these solar plants out in Daggett, CA like 25 years ago, finally tore them down and foisted the crap off on Spain
http://www.desertdispatch.com/articles/daggett-6577-dismantles-edison.html
The sun don't shine at night....... If you have excess capacity it is inefficient unless you have a way to store that excess to use when the sun ain't shining.
Thex next one will be built on the bright side of the moon, and beam the energy back via a giant laser.
Bright side of the moon....
No sarc tag so i presume you are retarded
Easy, pal. He's joking. And it's no dumber than the billion dollar idiotic sci fi solar power unit idea.
YES! a frickin' LAZOR!
Gee - if only they had consulted with you first...
Oh wait...
solar roasted quail, turkeys etc. New chain of restaurants for the save the whalers. My god this shit gets old. Let's have all the women folk put on their makeup at the same time and direct their compact mirrors at a large boiler in the center of the country. Macys, Bloomingdales etc can apply for Federal grants as energy innovators and also helping beautify America at the same time as their civic duty. If the sun was supposed to generate electricity and be economically viable in doing so don't you think it would have been figured out by now? How many billions have already been pissed to the wind via this corrupt governments grants to Obummers friends. It is a goat schtupp let's be honest. I used to say God help us but I no longer do. Between government employees making twice the private sector, the MIC and the FIRE folks we are well and truly fucked. In honor of Valentines day I am going to go and Google now the st valentines day massacre and do some light reading. I do have the Armageddon Survival Handbook on the night stand for some more light reading just before bedtime. The wife does enjoy looking at silver Eagles before I lose them while boating so I am thankful for having a good woman. Happy days folks,,, I am out.
Just Great!!!
Now all of us can guess how long "Ivanpah" will be in existence now that thyroid cancers are spiking and life may be somewhat "altered " for Ivanpah residents thanks to the gift that will just keep giving courtesy of the U.S. and Japanese Government(s) called Fukushima!
Everythings all peaches and cream until the sun goes down. Funny that.
common misconception.
It may be 'fragile and open land' but there sure is a lot of it...we call it the Mojave desert.
Environmentalists cannot be kept happy. Green power...good....land use to achieve green power...bad...
When I moved to Vegas in the early 1990s there was an effort to 'save the tortise'...and a tax to make sure they were checked for before beginning construction. After a few years though all those turtles became a problem...so they just killed them.
These folks are not people who really care about the land like hunters, rock climbers, bird watchers, fishermen, surfers, boaters, rec vehicle and other real users do.
For them it is all a smoke screen to increase taxes.
Next time you meet an 'environmentalist' ask them when was the last time they actually visited...you know...the environment they say they care so much about.
How many mirrors would it take to melt illegal aliens?
Depends, how many people did you count who are NOT First Nations indigenous people?
Even they came from Asia. Stop fucking with the buffalo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FCdx7Dn0o
MDB, I would really like to know, what is it that prevents you Canadians from using the simple and sensible word "natives" for, well, natives, instead of this "First Nations Aboriginal Indigenous Noble Savage (and Heavily Federal Government Subsidized) Peoples" hyper-politically-correct nonsense?
(Nothing personal against you here, MDB --- I generally like all of your posts.)
Hey, don't forget the indians. They were here even before the aborigenicalist indignantatious citizens.
but were they the mattering in 'terms' of citizenism?
You're still flogging dead horses, i see.
I don't wish to speak for MDB, but they were called 'Nations' as early as 1814, and earlier. Do please try to keep up.
Eg. The Treaty of Ghent Article 9 specifies that the United States cease all hostilities towards the "Nations of Indians"<cough>
And since they aren't actually from India
And they were there uh, 'First'?
Did that line of reasoning finally help you to understand the difference between `sensible` and 'nonsense'? Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath or anything.
And it's simply "First Nations", rather than the smarmy blather you've made up to please yourself and the echochambermaidens; as if a single extra syllable is just such an onerous burden to keep in your tiny little mind (it isn`t really that, is it? I mean if it's medical, my condolences.)
What I find curious is that you're so goshdarn set on them not being called 'First Nations' and prefer the old colonialisms... hmmm, I wonder why that might be, hey?
because "Natives" implies all people native to a land on the entire planet in all eras of history, and I'm not being that abstract.
Tamil people are Native, Palestinians are Native, Aborigines in Australia are Natives.
No offence taken - I can understand - but I assume ZH readership to be global despite my language being English. Someone could even be using google-translate & I'd like to be as clear as I can. That's also why I don't say "American Indian" because while North America is the "America" that was 'discovered' by Christopher Columbus (after the Vikings, of course, and the Chinese http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449265/Who-Discovered-America--... ), to most of the world Canada is not America and so I am trying to be accurate.
"environmentalists concerned about the effect on desert wildlife"
What fucking wildlife?! I lived in Las Vegas and there may have been 10 snakes and a few beatles displaced by this plant. Are those fucktard environmentalists using zero electricity since they are so concerned about the environment?
Disclaimer: I used to be a Sierra Club card carrying member of the enviromentallyretarted movement. Then I started drinking, reading ZH, and you know the rest...
I know a good place to open a Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise.....
Here's the math.
It cost $2.2B and will power 140k homes. That's $15.7k/home. Electricity costs about $120/month? So it will take 11 yrs to pay back - that does not include maintenance and 140k employees. This looks like a losing model to me. The salary, benefits and pensions for 140k employees will kill it alone - that's 1 employee per home serviced - how can this be considered as a good investment? Facking corrupt aholes.
... and to scale this lunacy up to the point half the nation gets hundred and fifty buck a month solar power would require an additional zillion kajillion dollars and hundreds of millions of workers. This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard of in my life.
Who comes up withis idiotic mad scientist nonsense anyhow?
I guess it depends on if you directly use the thermal energy or waste your time converting it to electricity at a loss, transmit it at a loss, and then turn THAT electricity back into heat at a loss in each home. A lot of losses add up fast.
boilers & mirrors. These are fairly simple machines which don't need uber-expensive skills or materials, though there are a LOT of mirrors.
The expenses may be lower than you think for long-term upkeep.
Still, no sun = no power & a proper concern is that if you can put heat INTO the boiler from the mirrors, how much heat is lost FROM The boiler when the sun is NOT providing enough heat, ESPECIALLY if the air gets cold?
That's an important question.
These types of systems actually do continue to produce energy during dark. A 'flywheel' effect is created through residual heat in the thermal mass of the collector.
While that's good to use the power that's been put in, the cooling still happens so you're fighting loss.
Wheel takes heat, air takes heat. Which one will win? You get the power off the wheel, great, but once it goes cold you'll still lose some. What's the best solution to minimize this loss? It's a tower, not a sphere, the surface area exposure is a factor.
it's $2.2 Billion for 392 MW. That's $6/watt
a nuke station runs $14 Billion for a gigawatt.
392MW? Great! So this solar power plant can barely supplyt the juice for Tom Brady's 220,000 (!) square foot home is California?
He was just on the radio doing commercials encouraging people to use CFLs and cut down on electricity use.
This is just like the tax codes. The rich are exempt or don't follow a lot of shit that apply to you and me. There are three societies 1) the poor who live off of the system, 2) the middle class who support the system with their taxes and their votes that were gotten through propaganda and 3) the rich who control the system.
His wife is a Socialist, of course, so she will not object to socializing the income of 20,000 households to power her mansion.
I completely oppose this form of energy production because my feathered friends get burned to death by mirrors and the heating tower. I also think we should get rid of all wind farms because they produce the same effect on my kind.
Signed Big Bird.
The median annual household income in the US is about $50,000. This means that for every $1 million in subsidies, the wealth of 20 entire households is consumed by the project. Any scheme that requires an ongoing subsidy is always at risk of government becoming exhausted for one reason or another and repeducing the subsidy below the project's breakeven number. When the subsidy is reduced, those with something to lose should the project go under will either have to be able to charge more for the power they generate or they will have to exercise their options under the bankruptcy laws. In the end, either the utility customers will pay or the taxpayer will pay. Sky high electric bills will by yet one more reason for people to leave Kali.
"Those blast points are too accurate for Sand People". Obi-Wan surveys the scorched birds in the high desert...
Until we invent machine-based photosynthesis, this is as good as it gets. No photovoltaic system can beat the efficiency of solar-thermal.
Here's hoping for a hail storm.
So we have a 140,000 people pursuing an industry that has no competitive economics, supported by gubmint subsidy. Call me crazy but i would say that is a mis-allocation of capital.
I picture a small earthquake requiring recalibration of 300,000 mirrors.
Lovin it!
a careful system design will let you do it automatically and with little trouble.
Put some sensors on each face on the top and bottom of the tower, have all mirrors go to Horizontal then
have one mirror track towards the target and do a hunt for the top target, then drop to the lower target and hunt,
Track back and forth to calibrate then return to zero and start on the next mirror.
With computer control it may take all day to do several thousand mirrors but it's a one time thing, take the sensors down
and go to routine ops.