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US Organized Labor Humiliated After Volkswagen's Tennessee Workers Vote Against Unionizing

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While US organized labor has been in a state of steady decline for several generations, never had it suffered as crushing a blow as it did last night, when in a 712 to 626 vote, Volkswagen's hourly workers in Chattanooga, TN, rejected joining the United Auto Workers labor union. What makes the defeat even more bitter is that a win would have marked the first time the union has been able to organize a foreign-owned auto plant in a Southern U.S. state, and would have been particularly meaningful, because the vote was set in a right-to-work state in the South, where anti-union sentiment is strong and all past UAW organizing drives at automobile plants have failed. What is most shocking, however, is that the defeat came even though the UAW had the cooperation of Volkswagen management and the aid of Germany's powerful IG Metall union, and yet it still failed to win a majority among the plants 1,550 hourly workers.  As the WSJ notes, "the defeat raises questions about the future of a union that for years has suffered from declining membership and influence, and almost certainly leaves its president, Bob King, who had vowed to organize at least one foreign auto maker by the time he retires in June, with a tarnished legacy."

Frank Fischer, the chairman and CEO of the Volkswagen plant in
Tennessee, left, and Gary Casteel, a regional director for the UAW
hold a press conference at the Chattanooga, Tenn., facility on Feb. 14. AP

"If the union can't win [in Chattanooga], it can't win anywhere," said Steve Silvia, a economics and trade professor at American University who has studied labor unions.

Under an agreement the UAW has with Volkswagen, it now must cease all organizing efforts aimed at the Chattanooga plant for at least a year.

And while the UAW could not blame the company, it still found a scapegoat: "The UAW said that "outside interference" affected the outcome of the vote. "Unfortunately, politically motivated third parties threatened the economic future of this facility and the opportunity for workers to create a successful operating model that that would grow jobs in Tennessee," Gary Casteel, the union official in charge of the VW campaign, said in a statement."

Then again, it's not as if the workers did not know what they had to lose:

The Chattanooga workers had been courted steadily for nearly two years by both the UAW and the IG Metall union, which pushed Volkswagen management to open talks with the UAW and to refrain from trying to dissuade American workers from union representation.

 

Mr. King made forging alliances with overseas unions the centerpiece of his strategy after he was elected in 2010. The union now must come up with a way to halt its decline. It once represented 1.5 million workers, but now has about 400,000, and diminished influence, as a result of years of downsizing, layoffs and cutbacks by the three Detroit auto makers General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. F +1.06% and Chrysler Group.

So even with the stakes all too clear, the workers themselves voted against union representation: a step which many consider may be the beginning of the end for once all too powerful unions.

"The union needs new members. They have to organize the transplants or they don't have much of a future," said Sean McAlinden, chief economist at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich.

 

The election was also extraordinary because Volkswagen choose to cooperate closely with the UAW. Volkswagen allowed UAW organizers to campaign inside the factory—a step rarely seen in this or other industries.

 

"This is like an alternate universe where everything is turned upside down," said Cliff Hammond, a labor lawyer at Nemeth Law PC in Detroit, who represents management clients but previously worked at the Service Employees International Union. "Usually, companies fight" union drives, he added.

Or maybe this time even the workers decided to give efficient labor supply and demand a chance? It certainly wouldn't be the first time when workers have realized that there is more downside than upside to joining a labor union:

The union's loss adds to a long list of defeats for organized labor in recent years. States like Wisconsin enacted laws that cut the power of public-employee unions, and other states, including Michigan, home of the UAW, adopted right-to-work laws that allow workers to opt out of union membership if they choose.

Than again, instead of political influence, the primary reason for the huge disappointment was the union's own internal strife and political bickering as it seeks to remain relevant in a divided world in which labor representation is increasingly equated to political affiliation.

More workers were persuaded to vote against the union by the UAW's past of bitter battles with management, costly labor contracts and complex work rules. "If the union comes in, we'll have a divided work force," said Cheryl Hawkins, 44, an assembly line worker with three sons. "It will ruin what we have."

 

Other UAW opponents said they dislike the union's support of politicians who back causes like abortion rights and gun control that rub against the conservative bent of Southern states like Tennessee. Still others objected to paying dues to a union from Detroit that is aligned with Volkswagen competitors like GM and Ford.

 

"I just don't trust them," said Danielle Brunner, 23, who has worked at the plant for nearly three years and makes about $20 an hour—about $5 an hour more than new hires at GM, Ford and Chrysler plants.

 

The no-UAW vote raises questions on how the union proceeds now in separate efforts to organize other foreign-owned plants in the South, and whether international cooperation can provide any additional leverage for labor unions.

 

The UAW's alliance with IG Metall was forged over the last several years by Mr. King, who traveled to Germany, Japan, Brazil and South Korea in hopes of getting unions around the world to combine forces.

No matter the long-term future of labor unions, one thing is certain: yesterday's defeat will make the UAW's role and leverage in US manufacturing even weaker, and in turn - lead to some very big question marks about the future of organized labor.

The UAW's loss in Chattanooga also seems likely to complicate contract talks it will have with the Detroit auto makers in 2015. Right now, GM, Ford and Chrysler pay veteran workers about $28 an hour, and new hires about $15 an hour, and the UAW wants to narrow that gap.

 

But without the ability to push wages higher at foreign-owned car plants, the UAW is likely to have little leverage in Detroit, said Kristin Dziczek, director of the Labor & Industry Group at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich.

 

"They have to organize at least one of the international auto makers in order to attempt to regain bargaining power with the Detroit Three," she added.

The one sure winner from last night's outcome: corporations, who will be delighted to know that they can take advantage of the ongoing US depression and pay appropriate wages in an economy filled with labor (and demand) slack, and instead of spending more on wages, hiring and capital expansion, can continue doing more of the kind of "capital allocation" that has sent the S&P to all time highs: stock buybacks.

 

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Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:39 | 4439333 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

Cue the protests in 5...4...3...2...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:46 | 4439347 Looney
Looney's picture

Awww… So many familiar feces… errr… faces?  ;-)

Looney

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:51 | 4439362 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

"in related news, sales of replacement tires are spiking in the area after thousands of customers reported their tires slashed."

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:58 | 4439382 Stackers
Stackers's picture

I love my new made in Tennessee TDI Passat. Cant beat 700 miles on a $60 fill up.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:15 | 4439413 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I wonder if Detroit being a bankrupt, car jobs shipped out of country, desolate wasteland, may have affected their decision?

WalMart employees vote down unions every opportunity they get.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:11 | 4439581 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

That's what these unions get for backing the left.

Oh yeah. Forget these fuckers. Public employees should be BARRED from unionizing.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:46 | 4439677 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Interesting. How coincidental that I watched On the Waterfront last night. Unions are for pussies.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:36 | 4439808 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Or maybe this time even the workers decided to give efficient labor supply and demand a chance? 

Lol weekend Tyler is in from his day job at fox news. 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Union_membership_in_u...

 

Yep, it's really worked beautifully, wages / employment have gone through the roof!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:19 | 4440295 DOT
DOT's picture

Stop being a tool, James, the Capitol vs. Labor dichotomy is false. Both are organized to achieve a result for a defined constituency. Red team vs. Blue team, Republican vs. Democrat- it's all too convenient don't you think? Unions are people, Corporations are people, and don't forget We the People, there is much more in common to our interests than you allow. You have bitched mightily for far too long. Show us the glorious future that you envision and, of course, the ways and means to get there.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:04 | 4440424 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Stop being a tool, James, the Capitol vs. Labor dichotomy is false. Both are organized to achieve a result for a defined constituency. 

Yeah except the capital (executive class) side of the equation has all the money, all the media organizations, bought all the politicians..to predictable results. 

Different countries approach the capital / labour equation differently. Destroying unions in the US has not benefitted the majority, yet the propaganda (blue & red team) has long argued for less labour protections. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_hiEvTNV5k

^Clintons propagandist effectively arguing against labour protections.

You have bitched mightily for far too long. Show us the glorious future that you envision and, of course, the ways and means to get there.

I bitch about it because it's the same shit that was being debated 2 decades ago, when the fuck are people going to wake up?? It's not even about solutions, it's about correctly diagnosing the problem. People can sort out the solutions on their own. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:24 | 4440464 DOT
DOT's picture

"Yeah except the capital (executive class) side of the equation has all the money, all the media organizations, bought all the politicians..to predictable results.'

 

They don't have you and they don't have me. Now I can't agree that " ALL" is the appropriate quantifier, I will, however, agree that all of the corrupt organizations are very aware of who is paying for the caviar. And they know very well what is really being paid for.

 


Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:48 | 4440504 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

If the VW workers would like to unionize and 'demand' wage increases regardless of labor market conditions, there are plenty of other potential workers in other states who'd be happy to perform the same unskilled work they're performing at their current wage.

Congratulations to them for figuring that out.   To the union organizers who don't get their cut before their victims become unemployed.....boo hoo.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 19:14 | 4440580 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

there are plenty of other potential workers in other states who'd be happy to perform the same unskilled work they're performing at their current wage

That's the good thing about 'unskilled' labour, there are plenty of folks in other countries happy to perform the same work at pennies on the dollar. The good news is with a little luck soon you'll be gainfully employeed at $.10 an hr too! Will be wonderful for corporate profits. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:13 | 4441045 Vooter
Vooter's picture

LOL...so true. These morons actually think you're supposed get paid more if you're an American...

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 02:09 | 4441531 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Globalization. It'll gain moar momentum with time.

 

 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 12:45 | 4442156 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Unskilled?  Most of the people who go on about "unskilled" labor are probably thieves.  I doubt more than a tiny fraction of them could perform the "unskilled" labor that they're so fond of ridiculing.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 15:07 | 4442509 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

Your not figuring in productivity. Those cats earning 10 bucks a day are not as productive as 1st world workers. Blame overtaxation and regulation for pushing jobs overseas, not wages. At 100 bucks/bbl..transport costs are very real. There are huge advantages to mfg here if we didn't tax and regulate way beyond necessary. German study. America ranks 94th in corporate tax. Competitive? Don't believe so.

You want higher wages for the poor/unskilled? Stop killing investment/demand (again taxes and regs) and stop increasing supply by importing millions more poor/unskilled (illegal) laborers.

It's not a very complicated issue people. 

Unions stopped being about "fairness" 40 years ago. Now, they simply misprice labor. Ditto the increases in minimum wages. In the end, both practices hurt workers.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:34 | 4441351 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Yep, it's really worked beautifully, wages / employment have gone through the roof!

Yep, them fuckin' Progressives have really delivered. Delivered to themselves, the union brothers, not so much...

 

FORWARD SOVIET!

 

(Former UAW local 865)

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 10:27 | 4441904 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

You know, James Cole gets shot at the end of the movie.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MMRqVyAak4

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:53 | 4439700 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Unions are the corporations of the left, corporations are the unions of the right.

Both are legal creations of government and both exist to benefit a specific group at the expense of others.

And, of course, government benefits from the existence of both.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:32 | 4441356 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Dear Anus:

 

Brilliantly stated. + 1,000

 

FORWARD UNION ASS NAPKINS!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:06 | 4439732 devnickle
devnickle's picture

+1,000!

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 20:02 | 4440709 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

"WalMart employees vote down unions every opportunity they get"

 

and why not? the US taxpayer picks up the difference between what they get paid and what it costs to live......what's really funny is the union of lobbyist that descend on Washington to make sure that NEVER FUCKING CHANGES!!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:49 | 4439501 Black-Man
Black-Man's picture

I had a made in Mexico Jetta which was a piece of junk. Cabin trim fell off, both driver and passenger side windows broke, and I ended up trading it at 80k because I didn't feel the car could get to 100k. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:52 | 4439695 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

Sure you can, $30 fill up Honda Civic Hybrid Avg. 51mpg x 10 gal. tank = over 1000 miles on $60 reg unleaded fuel. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:54 | 4440530 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

How do fit in a freaking Passat?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:00 | 4439384 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

O is being recruited by the UAW for his after-president gig...or did O do an internship there?  either way

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:50 | 4440513 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"O is being recruited by the UAW for his after-president gig"

Fluffer?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:01 | 4439719 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Hooray! Now the automakers can pay the workers $8 per hour. God Bless America! But somehow these same companies pay $30 per hour in Germany and Japan AND make a profit. Idiotic Ideology.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:42 | 4439826 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Germany hasn't learned about the amazing job creation / wage benefits found in letting 'the market' decide. Every gawddam thing there is labour protected! Naturally their wages are terrible, products are junk and unemployment through the roof. Er..

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:02 | 4440085 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

Germany doesn't have the UAW. And I'm sure everyone in Germany is better off because of it.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:13 | 4440108 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Germany doesn't have the UAW. And I'm sure everyone in Germany is better off because of it.

 

Um maybe you missed the bit where it mentioned Germanys primary auto union (IG Metall) was working with UAW?

 

No need to be braindead bitchez, learn something:

 

http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/tale-two-systems

 

In 2010, over 5.5 million cars were produced in Germany, twice the 2.7 million built in the United States. Average compensation (a figure including wages and employer-paid benefits) for autoworkers in Germany was 48.97 Euros per hour ($67.14 US), while compensation for auto work in the United States averaged $33.77 per hour

 

Workers in the German auto industry maintain high wages and good working conditions through two overlapping sets of institutions. First, in the auto industry, virtually all workers are unionized members of IG Metall, the German autoworkers’ union. With such union density, workers have considerable power to keep wages high.

 

According to Mund, however, “The accusation that American unions are more radical and destructive…definitely has to do with the hostile environment in which the unions have to act. How can they be constructive and friendly if their asses are kicked all the time?” Maibach told a very similar story: unlike in Germany, where unionization and high wages are normalized by law and custom, “the U.S. has a different tradition” and “companies have a choice to make” about where to locate their facilities, often deciding on places where the risk of unionization is lower.

 

When asked why German firms operate so differently with respect to labor in different countries, Claude Barfield, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute where he studies international trade and globalization, told Remapping Debate that they do so, in part, “because they can get away with it so far.”

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:23 | 4441071 Jeff Cosford
Jeff Cosford's picture

I haven't checked in awhile but a few years ago I got curious about unions and Germany. Turns out that the average unemployment rate there from at least the 70's is 10%. Heh.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:41 | 4441369 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I haven't checked in awhile but a few years ago I got curious about unions and Germany. Turns out that the average unemployment rate there from at least the 70's is 10%. Heh.

Uh no.

http://intereconomics.eu/downloads/ausgaben/IE_2012/ie1205/schettkat-fig...

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/chapter...

Germany also had this little thing in the 1990s where they absorbed a place called "East Germany" which was very much stuck in the 1950s and filled with people who weren't exactly A+ job  candidates.. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 15:27 | 4439968 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

UAW, Inc. membership has crashed and they are desperate to get new ponzi cash flow to pay off pension guarantee (who knew union leadership overhead would be so high, and investing with felonious friends so disapponting?)

Anyway VW workers are getting $20/hr, full bens, low tax state.

Meanwhile the UAW sold out new, young workers in existing big three plants for $15 and poor benifits. No wonder VW management wanted the union to come in and strong arm the workers. Union leadership's gets new cash flow, management lower enforced costs, workers the shaft.

They will be back. Too much money in workers hands. In a way it is like the country. The union leadership is like the Democrat leadership. The Management is like the GOP, and the workers are like the small, middle and professional classes. The wealth to be divided up.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:02 | 4440069 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Anyway VW workers are getting $20/hr, full bens, low tax state.

Yeesh the bar is set low.. $20/hr? What's that adjusted for inflation versus $20/hr doing the same job twenty years ago?

Meanwhile the UAW sold out new, young workers in existing big three plants for $15 and poor benifits. No wonder VW management wanted the union to come in and strong arm the workers. Union leadership's gets new cash flow, management lower enforced costs, workers the shaft.

This reminds me when I was in my teens working at a grocery store, management was organizing with a consortium of other grocery chains to break the union, union basically controlled all the labour. Used the same sort of arguments brought up here, greedy union / bad for workers / bad for employment / we'll pay you more anyway. 

At the time I was friends with a guy who'd been there long time, was earning the top hr wage ($30). One day he said to me 'See all these people here? They don't know it yet, but they're all fucked.' He ended up taking a buyout.

Anyway, management won and the union was basically decimated in time. Now a decade and a half later almost none of the grocery chains have any union representation, wages hover around minimum and the people I had worked with.. well God knows what happened to them. 

Unions have their own agenda and everyone is subject to greed, but sort of the last line of defence against having your wage taken converted into this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/US_Corporate_Profits_...

Or this:

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/files/2012/01/fig6.png

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:55 | 4440399 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

I worked in a grocery store (waldbaums) in NY when I was in high school.  I was in the union; had to be, I think.  The pay was ok for a high school student, but not many of us planned on working there as adults - it didn't pay enough.   Its mostly a job for unskilled kids/students etc.   

The union didn't do shit for anyone except take part of our pay, and add a level of burocracy(sp?) to our lives that otherwise would not have existed.   Unions are nothing but a shakedown rackett in a business like that.    The best possible thing for anyone CHOOSING to look for work in that type of industry; or any unskilled labor, is to let the market set the wages.  

You can mock if you want, but in another coversation you would probably tell me about all those jobs out there that Americans wont do!   (even though those industries are predominantly staffed by American workers)

The market has a knack- is the best possible way -  for deciding what an appropriate wage should be.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:35 | 4440479 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The best possible thing for anyone CHOOSING to look for work in that type of industry; or any unskilled labor, is to let the market set the wages.  

What do you mean 'choose,' like you 'choose' to eat? A jobs based economy means if you want to get by you'll need a job. Or are you suggesting folks go on the .gov dole until they find a job they like? 

The market has a knack- is the best possible way -  for deciding what an appropriate wage should be.

In a world of magical thinking, but not in the real world. It's absurd to suggest that a global supply will set appropriate local labour unit costs for goods sold on an open market. Or that a capital based system would compensate those without access to capital in a equitable manner without strong 'incentives', see: third world countries. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:48 | 4440509 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Funny thing about a union we do have here in Alabama. Walter Energy is a coal mining company. They are, of course, unionized. 

Let's see, the miners have completely separate bathrooms and locker rooms. Suits can't take a piss in the union bathrooms and the miners can't piss in the suits bathrooms. 

Thank God for the hard stance of the unions; otherwise everyone could piss in the same bathrooms. 

Two elections ago the Union backed Obama. Every truck in the damn parking lot had an Obama bumper sticker on it. Alabama rednecks had Obama stickers and UMW stickers plastered all over the trucks - cause they had to. 

Obama won and declared war on them. Their stock (WLT) went from over a hundred bucks a share to about 10. 

Second time around there weren't so many Obama stickers in the parking lot. 

Dumb fuckers in the mines have it a lot worse off than the guys in the Volkswagen plant - but the guys in the mine have a union. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:54 | 4440528 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Two elections ago the Union backed Obama. Every truck in the damn parking lot had an Obama bumper sticker on it. Alabama rednecks had Obama stickers and UMW stickers plastered all over the trucks - cause they had to. 

Obama won and declared war on them. Their stock (WLT) went from over a hundred bucks a share to about 10. "

 

Good.   Stupid ought to hurt.   Then there's less of it.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 19:13 | 4440586 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Funny thing about a union we do have here in Alabama. Walter Energy is a coal mining company. They are, of course, unionized.

You're right, coal mining was a much better industry for workers before unions came in and fucked it all up. 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 13:05 | 4442204 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Yes, choose..  

I had to choose to go to the store to fill an app.  I had to choose to go in an talk to them when they responded to the app.  I had to choose to accept their offer of employment.   I had to choose to show up the first day. 

I had to choose to modify my schedule every day thereafter to accomodate my work schedule, and had to choose to show up and do my damn job.  

I chose ALL of these things freely.

Until I chose to give them notice that I would no longer be making the same choices, because I chose to sever our mutual agreement of my  time and labor for their $. 

 

After that, I chose to go in the Navy.   Now THERE was a whole  bunch of choices.     Not all of 'em good, I might add, but choices nonetheless.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 14:48 | 4442459 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

'Choice' isn't anywhere near as clean an issue as lots of people pretend it is. The first obvious thing is you choose among options, if you're wealthy you have lots of options if you are poor you have few. If you are wealthy you have the opportunity to make many bad choices, if you're poor - again few. Pretty basic shit. In caste system (which America really is for most) sure there are choices, but within a narrow range.  

Americans love to desperately cling to the notion that they are so free with so many choices/ opportunities and if that's your fantasy good on you, not going to try and convince people around their delusions. 

Carlin put it pretty well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt49DsfKDMc

Ariely also has an interesting take on choice, I posted elsewhere zh:

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_de...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 20:09 | 4440723 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

"is to let the market set the wages"

 

and that would be whatever the wage in China is....which means more workers who don't make enough to pay taxes, which then means where does the money come from to have a fireman? a teacher? and police officer?

the magical "market" seems to be the answer for everything BUT INTEREST RATES AND THE VALUE OF MORTGAGE BACKED SECURITIES.

and yet the sheep keep chiming in about the "market" while they get fleeced daily, the brainwashing in this country is truly something to behold!!!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:39 | 4440487 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

You should lay off the rocks. The union wasn't there before and they made a hell of a lot more than $8 an hour. The workers had a free and fair election and they voted it down. 

Why are you against workers deciding for themselves what they want? 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:54 | 4441399 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Because free people are stupid people and therfore need unions and other liberal elites to TELL them what to do. Is it surprising to you that liberals would take exception to free choice?

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 07:43 | 4441736 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Idiot, they don't pay $8- they pay very good money. $20/hour will get you farther in Tennessee than $30 will in Japan or Germany as the cost of living is dramatically lower. 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 15:14 | 4442533 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

Dude,

Germany reformed a number of tax and labor issues a number of years ago. Their corporate tax system is better than ours.Why do corporations ever pay taxes? It's stupid. All the costs are footed by the consumers who buy the product.

 

But German is heading down the tubes with their own nanny state obligations to the growing boomer retiree populations. Will be interesting to see how it plays out there.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:21 | 4440455 ZombieHuntclub
ZombieHuntclub's picture

From sunny Chattanooga, I say FUAW

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 11:57 | 4442076 DblAjent
DblAjent's picture

Power to the People!!! (to fight against union thugs)

oops...is that racist nowadays?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:42 | 4439337 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

This is the last nail in the Union coffin. It's over for them.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:40 | 4439473 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Union FU!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:05 | 4441023 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Okay...now what?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:43 | 4439341 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is a BIG WIN for the people of Tennessee.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:49 | 4439357 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

It's a Big Win for everyone in the Confederate States. Meanwhile Detroit expands at a rapidly growing rate like a metastasizing cancer.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:11 | 4439576 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Yes it is. 

Here in Alabama we have a Mercedes Benz factory, a Honda factory, a Hyundai factory and an Airbus factory. Thyssen Krupp built the largest steel mill in the entire world here. 

No unions needed. 

Lots'a of good jobs in those plants, and lots of businesses spring up all around supplying them. I toured the Mercedes plant. Everything is recycled - no garbage leaves the plant at all. The water that is discharged is cleaner than the water they took in from the public water supply. They have their own sewage treatment facility. 

Even mom and pop stores spring up all around these plants. 

The Southern working man mentality is simple - give me a job to do, let me do it, pay me for doing it and leave me the fuck alone. 

The big city union types just don't get it. They never will. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:00 | 4440080 zhandax
zhandax's picture

We have all been handed a pile of shit in the 'bigger is better' meme.  Name one instance where this is true.  Big labor, big ag, big pharma, big corporations, big government.  Which has benefited you?  >Crickets<

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:33 | 4441358 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Just out of curiousity...how much state/federal money and loan guarantees were forked out to get those factories there? (Let me give you a hint, I live 50 miles from the TK...ops AM/NS plant so I have the skinny)....Just checking you out to see if you understand the premise that everyone is talking about here. Unionized or not, the MASTERs are the same....

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 08:15 | 4441756 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Same thing here in South Carolina, the upstate area is bursting at the seams with new manufacturing growth.  BMW (what a plant!) and CAT up here, Boeing in the Low Country, and tons of other companies moving into the area.  The metal fab shop I work for is growing so fast we almost can't handle it- what started out as an offshoot of a Michigan company six years ago with 5 guys now has 150 and we can barely handle the growth- third building goes up this year and we'll break 200 employees, before too long we will be larger than the company we spun off of.

It's done pretty simply and without needing any sort of loan- the state of SC just gives the companies 5 years without having to pay state and local taxes. People have steady work and have no interest in a union of any kind- as you said they want to get a paycheck and be left the fuck alone without a bureaucracy between themselves and whoever runs the company.  If the pay isn't what they need, they find another job on their own.

The knowledge that the northern factories are shutting down and their jobs are moving down here is also a big plus for many. As CAT and other big companies shutter their northern plants and move to the southeast it's going to get even better here.

Suck it, Yankees! Do not take this as an invitation or reason to relocate to the southeast- remain in your decaying urban hellholes and choke on your own rot. 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 13:02 | 4442183 RKDS
RKDS's picture

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Five years tax exempt status.  And you can't connect the shift in northern and southern companies' fortunes to this advantage you've been taxed to pay for?  No, they're soshulist and you're special, surely that's it!  Money doesn't grow on trees, stupid.  Somebody's paying more taxes to cover for those who aren't.

But, wow, five years tax exempt status.  Do you know what I could accomplish if I could get away with not paying taxes for half a fucking decade?  Oh, but I'm just a real person, not a corporate "person," so I don't get that special treatment from my "anti-business" government...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:56 | 4439376 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Now your just being stupid. There is nothing in our current economic environment that is a big win for anyone, except of course TPTB.

Unions have failed their members, but not like many Oligarchial tools like you believe. The unions have failed because they tethered themselves to the Democratic Party which since the early 1970's has become very corporate and heavily dependent on the financial support of big banks and the financial services industry. The interests of the Democratic Party fund raising base is in direct contradiction to union membership, and yes the union leadership knows this, and yes they are complicit in the scam.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:36 | 4439460 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

Unions tied themselves to the Democratic party in a way that could only benefit Democratic party hacks. The workers always got short-changed in the process.  They did not have a real voice in government -- even if a "friend of labor" won the election.

 

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:48 | 4439500 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Since you're taking a sincere look at the situation, let me add my thoughts.

Historically, the ideal of collective bargaining is an entirely valid response to an enterprise that is inherently colossal, being the collective force of many actors organized into a corporation or company. The opposition between the workers who produce the value and the operators who "created" the enterprise is tied to the psychology resultant from societal responses to productive capacity. They're both following patterns of response based on how much a society can produce overall.

The major failing of Unions was twofold: their agenda placed them in direct opposition to technological advancement which was a fateful decision, and their fixation on preserving jobs instead of securing the well being of the citizenry, especially in light of that technological advancement which was making human involvement in production even more unnecessary, meant that Unions had less effect on the welfare of the community than they intended, while making their professed role less than viable.

People who criticize unions don't really understand what the human experience is all about, and at the same time, don't really understand why Unions failed. I think humanity will always be in need of an advocate on the side of the citizen, protecting the human experience, and that's where a mechanism such as a Union has an extremely valuable role, but at the same time, I don't believe leadership is the organizational model of the future, so the mechanism I speak of will not be operated like Unions today, with leaders advocating, it will be more like People just rising up collectively and mandating certain protections / conditions.

Until people develop their internal courage, mechanisms such as I describe will be merely wishful thinking.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:11 | 4439580 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I think humanity will always be in need of an advocate on the side of the citizen

If unions result from corporations, then unions actually result from government. Government created the legal chicanery known as the corporation.

No collective will ever advocate on behalf of an individual citizen. It is impossible, due to the oppressive nature of collectives. An individual is only entitled to those rights ("Human Experiences", WTFE that means in context) which it can secure for its

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:14 | 4439590 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

@Ranger4564:

I have a better idea. How about each and evey man make their own decisions of their own free will rather than being coerced by the collective 'for their own good'. 

That is my idea of 'developing internal courage'. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:02 | 4439725 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I have no problems with unions, that being said I do believe the UAW has overstepped their bounds and have played a role in making US auto makers inefficient - and I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is government stepping in and bailing them out and thus rewarding bad decisions.  This socialism / crony capitalism is just killing us for that very reason.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:53 | 4439701 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"Collective bargaining"???

Hmmm.

Oh yeah.

IT'S GOT THE WORD "COLLECTIVE" IN IT!!!!

And that's all that you need to know.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 21:46 | 4440958 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Yes! Buckaroo is absolutely right. Close your mind and embrace the dogma, because  "IT'S GOT THE WORD "COLLECTIVE" IN IT!!!!"

I distinctly remember some stupid son of a bitch who was at some silly signing ceremony. He said-

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Fucking idiot "collectivists" I tell you...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:01 | 4439720 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

The human experience is that service is rewarded; greed is not. I succeed at my job when I am serving my clients and coworkers. I spend considerable time trying to figure out what my clients need, even before they know it. Service (giving) is to offer without assurance of reward. The beauty is that, over time, the giving is rewarded.

By design, unions are selfish and will, therefore, fail. As it stands now, unions exist to serve their executives in symbiosis with politicians. Why would anyone want to be part of that?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:28 | 4439786 IREN Colorado
IREN Colorado's picture

Ranger 4564 - 

Your thesis is so flawed that it bears no resemblance to any known reality. Did you just fall through the looking glass? Unions exist to extract money through coercion or violence if necessary from workers, employers, and governments. They are and have always been a self serving cancer. They have done more to impede employment and economic prosperity than any other single source. They are the metabolic driving force behind this great nation's slide into socialism, our educational collapse, and tyranny in this country. The proof is all around you and in the study of union history in the USA. 

It is malignant.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 20:14 | 4440733 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

Iren,

 

LOL, LOL, LOL,

what would you call the union of executives in the automotive and banking industries that descended on Washington in 2008 with their hands out begging for money.......AND THEY FUCKING GOT IT!!!

i call that a union, but i guess that's the good one...LOL

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 13:31 | 4442265 IREN Colorado
IREN Colorado's picture

to Mumbo

I would call those FOOs* villanous scum. Their companies should have been declared bankrupt and the legal system should have carved out the salvageable pieces from the dead. Those executives should have faced the legal music for their failures in both civil court and criminal court, as the situation warranted. The FOOs * were bailed out because of a fundamentally corrupt financial system that rewards corruption and greed over market transparency, honesty, and wholesome business practices that reward hard working employees and their honest owners/managers. 

FOOs* hate it when good guys & gals get ahead in this fracked up world!

 

I'm sure we all remember a FOO = Friend Of Obama (although in this case "friend of Bushies" would apply as well)

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:08 | 4441034 Jeff Cosford
Jeff Cosford's picture

So what's Government for?

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 01:05 | 4441415 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Unions have failed because they were given the abillity to legally monopolize, which allowed corruption to completely control them. At some point we will all have to understand that we cannot hire or apoint someone or something to look out for our best interests as ultimately the interests of those overseers will ALWAYS come first. And when given the virtually ulimited power that a monopoly provides, it ensures the complete destruction of everything it touches.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:44 | 4439343 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Just like our national political process has been co-opted by the leadership for their own benefit, so have many unions.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:16 | 4439750 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I agree but that's not the main problem.  The big issue at hand is government unions and bailouts to those unions that reward this type of behavior.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:49 | 4439346 suteibu
suteibu's picture

In the long run, the union experiment will be seen as a footnote in history.  It was a good - but relatively short - run for the thug organizers.

After more than a century of heavy political support, it seems obvious that the workers of the world have failed to unite.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:48 | 4439349 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

See if this vote stands legal challenges that will follow -   

Doesn't anyone have a pen and a phone?

 /s/

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:52 | 4439365 imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Unions are unworkable in any business that has global competition.  

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:02 | 4439396 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

union leaders are primarily thieving mother fuckers....just like your banksters, government, etc

ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:30 | 4439440 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

And absolute stupidity corrupts absolutely.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:43 | 4439486 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Especially unionized gubmint workers leaning on their shovels, brainwashing our children, harassing the people and generally creating an atmosphere of sloth.

The next president should break these unions with the first stroke of his or her pen.

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:48 | 4439687 thomasincincy
thomasincincy's picture

"The next president should break these unions with the first stroke of his or her pen."

I believe sound money would do this all by itself

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:00 | 4439543 Keyboard Kommando
Keyboard Kommando's picture

ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY................So do Jews!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:07 | 4441032 gallistic
gallistic's picture

"union leaders are primarily thieving mother fuckers..."

Technically, the fact that some union guy was banging your Mommy behind your Daddy's back, makes him a "mother fucker" (yours), but that doesn't entitle you to paint them all as such with a broad brush.

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:48 | 4439499 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

As designed by the money masters...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:53 | 4439368 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

"Hello Tennessee?  Yes, this is Wisconsin calling.  Nice job, but you can expect your capitol building to get trashed by the stir fry crowd who will be receiving their fake doctor notes in order to attend to such trashing of public facilities.  If Bill Ayers shows up, please alert the Bomb Squad."

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:38 | 4439447 mumcard
mumcard's picture

If Billy shows up then he may wind up on the back of a milk carton.  We still follow the 3S rule around here.  Shoot, shovel, shut up.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:53 | 4439369 esum
esum's picture

626 morons.... unions are run by self enrichng useless bosses who do nothing for members. I listened to the union persentation and had to laugh... y father organized a uno in NYC when and where there abuses and injustice. With big brother government now, there is little the unions bring to the party.... except embezzlement and misuse of pension funds... and thugery.  

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:06 | 4439401 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

c'mon, it's not like the unions here in the USA have cut the brake lines of locomotives or taken their adversaries hostage as part of their "negotiation"......oh, wait, they did.  nevermind.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:05 | 4439554 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Detroit is a monument to the UAW and to public sectors (aka gubmint workers) unions.  They are like a ***king cancer.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:54 | 4439370 Greshams Law
Greshams Law's picture

Why doesn't the UAW just deem the vote as passed?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:01 | 4439388 pods
pods's picture

Paging Philander Knox, please come to the microphone for an announcement.

pods

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:19 | 4439424 machineh
machineh's picture

Surely this mistaken vote can be set aside by executive order.

Page POTUS on the golf course!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:21 | 4439615 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I have a pen and a 9-iron.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:16 | 4440123 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Thread winner!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:54 | 4439371 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

being in a union suckseven if u make more it all goes to taxes and union dues and if ur someone that actually works hard at what u do ur forced to work hard while everyone around yiou jerks off doing nothing getting paid the same as you. you dont need a unionto organize you can simply strike to get whatyou want , you dont need to hand over half your paycheck to a union boss who will proibably up and rob you to fight for worker rights

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:56 | 4439375 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Don't gazelles band together to protect the herd from predators? Isn't the organization of weak individuals into larger units an aspect of natural law?

HA! HA! HA!

Just kidding.

Well, revolutions have occasionally happened throughout history and countless heads have been lopped off. Who knows what the future will bring!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:30 | 4439792 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

Gazells run for their lives - everyone is on their own - the strong live on - the weak get eaten by the lion -  it is sheep that "flock" together so that the whole group can be killed and eaten.

 

 

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:57 | 4439378 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I've actually encountered unions that aren't corrupt and are actually interested in the welfare of their members.  They were ineffective when it came to getting real things done.  Most unions, however, are only concerned with lining their pockets.  We have a carpenter's union that for a while was protesting construction jobs that were done with non union labor.  Some guy would fly out from California EVERY WEEK to organize the protests.  Fucking carpetbagger, he was.  They would hire protesters from places like Labor Ready, and then treat them like shit, proving that they didn't care about workers' rights.  The protested a restaurant near me, a Presbyterian church (who the fuck protests a church over the construction crew it used,) and a daycare center.  The daycare center made the news, because it was a leased space and the daycare itself had no say over who was used for remodeling or maintenance.  Some of the daycare workers were even cussed out by the non hired protesters, and that made the news.

 

Then there was my grandfather.  Back when he was a foreman on a road construction crew, the union was stirring shit up.  The crew didn't want to go union, but the union guy was adamant.  It got to the point where he threatened to burn the camp down, which resulted in my grandfather threatening to kill him, sicking the dog on him, and finally a court injunction against the union. 

 

For the most part, unions are corrupt parasites. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:39 | 4439470 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

And some "progressive" trolling here voted you down.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:00 | 4439493 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

They're as progressive as Marx and Engels.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:50 | 4439504 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Two of 'em!  (At this point.)

 

And just to reiterate to whomever it was, the union that I encountered that had leadership that consisted of decent people was ineffective.  They didn't know how to play politics and didn't care to line people's pockets.  Accordingly, they got nothing major done.  I would characterize them as well meaning but misguided.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 00:40 | 4441376 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

I had a boss (very successful millionaire multiple business owner) once that was adamant about his plants not going union. He explained to his employees that he wanted to be fair but to also make money (ergo why you are in business) and that he would handle any issues that couldn't be settled between employees and management. He also told me secretly that if the workers ever organized that he would promptly shut down the business. Why? Because they would inevitably drive the business in the ground so why not go ahead and take it down early and still keep his gains.

Smart fucking man.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:00 | 4439385 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Unions have never had their act together.  Just watch On the waterfront with Marlon Brando.  I was in one for 8 years and the best thing that happened is I quite nine months before the company decided to shut down and send all those union employees to the unemployment lines.

And what the hell ever happened to Jimmy Hoffa?  Just like all those suicided bankers, the war is over.  You have lost middle class.  Welcome to the 21st century.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:00 | 4439387 stant
stant's picture

union is the kiss of death, everyone that voted for it around here had thier plant close a few years later and moved to china

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:51 | 4439512 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I have never worked in a union at companies that have sent their plants to china or other dirt cheap labor markets anyways. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:01 | 4439389 markar
markar's picture

They should have used electronic voting machines. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:03 | 4439391 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Fuck the UAW. BTW, Fuck VW as well. The worst new car I ever owned was a Passat, made in Germany of 100% German parts. Used to have to take it in every three months or so for the quarterly recall fixes. For years.

Replacing the air filter was an hour long job with many small cuts to the hands.

 

It was the only car that I ever owned that wore out the rear pads at a ratio of 3 to 1 to front pads. The first service period [3 months after new] they replaced the front rotors and calipers. This made the car barely drivable. They were never able to increase braking performance. The car was a death trap if you had to stop suddenly.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:02 | 4439393 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Why would anyone pay union dues to a bunch of useless parasite thugs. Unions and Government , I See no difference, other than a monopoly of force. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:16 | 4439418 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Seasmoke

Correct you are. The tip off here is that management was actually supporting the union on this one. Nice!

Here is a great article by Tom DiLorenzo about the mythogy of the Union.

https://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=511

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:22 | 4439429 machineh
machineh's picture

'The tip off here is that management was actually supporting the union on this one.'

An excellent reason, from the workers' point of view, to vote no.

Our  management's crony is our enemy.


Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:37 | 4439464 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

In politics they call this 'bi-partisan".

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 01:15 | 4441439 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And both have legal monoplies.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:14 | 4439409 adr
adr's picture

If the UAW got its hands on the VW plant they would have amped up thier attack on every other plant, using union dues to finance the operation to get more union dues. Another great Ponzi scheme.

Fhe UAW serves its management and the politicians that protect them, not the workers. Most of the workers barely do work, knowing they get paid if they lift a finger or not. They are sloppy and build garbage. The UAW contracts with suppliers even if they make incompatible parts and force engineers to figure out how to make them work. You emd up with garbage like the Chevy Cruze where virtually every car coming out of the plant requires repairs before it goes to a dealer.

The answer is always the same, destroy central control and the monopolies it creates amd you help the worker. We need more real car companies, not government supported boondoggles like Tesla.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:27 | 4439433 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Right, and the big banks paid their portion of TARP back. Pure urban legend bullshit. Again, if we stay stupid nothing will get better.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 13:55 | 4442312 RKDS
RKDS's picture

And yet our "anti-business" government never stops any of these gigantic corporate mergers...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:15 | 4439412 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

But 838 workers voted, or didn't vote, to not not join the union.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:33 | 4439650 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

robertocarlos

"If you're not against me dont cross this line. If yes, do."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbUvFCj_qqo

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:16 | 4439414 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:27 | 4439434 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Labor has enough thieves going after their paychecks. 

Why should they hire new ones? 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:43 | 4439485 thomasincincy
thomasincincy's picture

now if only the .gov could balance it's budget

lmao

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:28 | 4439437 Rentier88
Rentier88's picture

lol UAW slapped in the face by VW workers and VW even allowed them full access to the plant and workers..

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:32 | 4439446 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

I wonder if VW management in their Germany HQ told the Tennessee locals to cooperate with the UAW as part of their strategy to repatriate jobs to the fatherland: "We can no longer afford to employ American labor."

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:33 | 4439450 4 wheel drift
4 wheel drift's picture

raus mit den hunds...

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:35 | 4439456 mumcard
mumcard's picture

   even though the UAW had the cooperation of Volkswagen management  

 

Don't these idiots know they can raise the pay and benefits to their workers without a leeching middle man?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:36 | 4439459 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

German management doesn't want problems at home with their unions.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:37 | 4439463 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Aha, so maybe we can steal Germany's manufacturing like China did to us?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:40 | 4441124 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yes you  can... win this race to the bottom.

USA! USA! USA!

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 14:22 | 4442387 mumcard
mumcard's picture

It's all about finding a seat when the music stops.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:13 | 4440448 css1971
css1971's picture

More like, they are legally required  to deal with them at home in Germany and are accustomed to doing so. Unlike the US, the german mangement don't necessarily see workers and unions as adversaries.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:35 | 4439457 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

I have much less disdain for private sector unions than for the public employees union squids.   Of course, current unions are all thug Demonrat controlled but that's another argument.  Public employee unions should be outlawed.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:41 | 4439471 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We’ll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

Refrain:
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

 

Maybe they should switch to something a bit more modern.

Something less Wobbly.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:42 | 4439481 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

The organizing of workers had its place in the transition from the early industrial revolution, still somewhat based on feudal thinking, to the modern world.  There are so many laws in place that pretty much duplicate anything unions can do for worker safety and conditions that they are redundant.   They are simply a vehicle to enrich union management, coerce money from the workers for political power and influence and support the democrat party.  

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:53 | 4439522 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Gave an inch and they took 10 miles.  The selfish early generation of unionized workers cared not for their progeny.  Conditions always improvve on their own over time, that's the way efficient markets have always worked out.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:08 | 4439738 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

"Conditions always improve on their own over time". Are you fucking kidding me! Companies would rape your mother and eat your dog if it meant more profits.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:14 | 4439745 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Tha's a little over the top, now isn't it?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:18 | 4440252 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Capitalism provides bread, but with no moral basis." Dostoyevsky

He wasn't saying that it is inherently bad; just that it wants mitigating.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 01:24 | 4441456 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Spoken like someone who has never owned a business.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 14:05 | 4442323 RKDS
RKDS's picture

The strength of laws, according to frightened "conservatives," is constantly in flux:

 

If a law is proposed to prevent gun-related violence, laws are like a wet paper bag.

If a law is proposed to protect workers or the environment, laws are like a titanium bank vault.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:39 | 4439472 surf0766
surf0766's picture

They will say this is because of them being racist.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:40 | 4439475 Biff Malibu
Biff Malibu's picture

Hi, I belong to a union.  I have been in 2 unions in 2 different organizations.  In the first organization the union was pretty much all that is wrong with unions.  Like Animal Farm, the bosses of the union became worse than the management they were supposed to "protect" us against.  I couldn't wait to leave that organization, in large part because of the union, to go to another organization.

In the second organization, we have confirmed fraud and corruption going on in management.  In this case, our union is working to expose the fraud and corruption and bring those responsible to justice.  In this case it's a good thing.

Overall, I'm very unhappy with the political leanings of the overall union to which it belongs.  It is very staunchly liberal.  I'm a conservative.  However every time I turn on Fox news, I hear some Republican talking about how unions are destroying this country.  The only problem I have with that statement, is very few workers have union membership anymore.  I have a hard time believing that such a low percentage of employees can cause such widespread economic problems. 

My message to republicans is this...stop bashing us, at least 3/4 of the guys I work with vote republican even though they spit in our face.  We go to church, love guns, are married with kids, etc etc.  Stop treating us like shit, and embrace us.  I hate that a crap load of my money goes to support democrats.  Even the head of our union (at the national level) says, we only support those who support us.  About a quarter of our money does go to conservatives that support us, but the rest goes to democrats.

Now you may commence flaming.

Biff

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:46 | 4439492 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Like I've written above, private sector unions have their place.   Most are corrupt sadly and part of the demonrat progressive machine.  Still, there's a time and place for workers to have their say.   However, the truly despicable squids are the public employee unions who are leeches from the lesser paid productive class and allegedly work for them.  There is no profit being made "management".   They are true scum.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:58 | 4439712 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Make sure your family turns EMS away should they ever show up to save your worthless ass. Of course, only if you want to stay intellectually consistent. You're a tool.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 18:00 | 4440412 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Evidently you are a poor reader and thinker.  I don't believe I insulted EMS workers.  I insulted the concept of public employee unions and the rip offs they are.  We, the taxpayers, are in essence "management".  We make no profit from the labor of these employees, we have no "concessions" to give.   Moreover, these civil servants have historically received the good benefits and job security as a trade off from high salaries.  Now they get it all and do better than those in the private sector.

BTW, most EMS workers are in the private sector.

You're an idiot.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:49 | 4439503 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I became disenchanted with unions when my 'voluntary contribution' went to a young swim instructor in Chappaquiddick.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:57 | 4439534 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

I would never spit on you.  I believe in your abilities DESPITE your union membership.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:28 | 4440169 Biff Malibu
Biff Malibu's picture

thank you

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:30 | 4440173 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

you're welcome

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 14:19 | 4439758 Tortuga
Tortuga's picture

The declining union membership/management still has the $$$$ to pay the progressive party 448 million$ in the last election cycle.

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