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The Chart That No "US Manufacturing Renaissance" Believer Wants To See

Tyler Durden's picture


With inventories of unsold cars at or near record highs and the Big 3 up to their old tricks of channel-stuffing (as we have vociferously exposed), it seems time has run out for the US manufacturing renaissance. The 'if we build cars, they will come and buy them' mentality has hit a literal wall as not only are dealers bloated with stock, the buyers have dried up. As the following chart shows, the average number of days it takes to sell a car in the US has surged recently after 9 months of improvement. This is the worst (slowest) pace of sales since August 2009. Not what the 'recovery' faithful wanted to hear...

Not a great sign for US consumption...

(h/t @TomOrlik)


And of course, with channels stuffed at almost record levels...

Confused why the various US manufacturing indices have been on a tear in the past few months? Perhaps the fact that GM dealer lots are so full of cars they just couldn't wait for even more deliveries has something to do with it. Which is also why in addition to reporting sales numbers for November that were largely in line with expectations, amounting to 212,060 (even if total Chevy Volts sold YTD of 20.7K were -0.6% less than in the same period in 2012), or 13.7% more than last year (estimated called for 13.% increase), of which a whopping 51,705 was in the form of "channel stuffed" units to be parked on dealer lots.


In fact, as the chart below shows, in the past three months, GM channel stuffing has exploded and soared by 150K units (the most ever for a 3 month period) from 628.6K to 779.5K. This represents the second highest amount of channel stuffing and is lower only compared to the 788.2K units "stuffed" exactly one year ago.




Next, price cuts, more allowances, lower subprime acceptance standards? Anyone else feel deja vu all over again?


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Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:42 | 4454106 newsguy68
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Capital One Now Makes House-Calls Says It Can Show Up At Cardholders’ Homes, Workplaces -

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:46 | 4454128 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

2007 = subprime home loans

2014 = subprime car loans

2016 = cash for clunkers 2.0

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:49 | 4454141 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

I'm thinking that this should just be a new Fed program -- add a few million cars to the Fed balance sheet (purchased through a "primary dealer" network obviously).

We can call it CARP, after a shit-eating fish, and the Fed can book the cars on their balance sheet at "classic car" prices because (as everyone knows about a Tier-3 asset) you can mark their value to a model rather than FMV -- the model being "We hold them until they are antiques."


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:01 | 4454204 superflex
superflex's picture

Looks like I picked the wrong week to become a car salesman.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:02 | 4454208 balolalo
balolalo's picture



who's the CHUMP?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:20 | 4454293 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

People have stopped buying in anticipation of the upcoming Apple ICar.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:56 | 4454447 holmes
holmes's picture

You would think the 0.01% would be all over these car deals.

Trickle down baby.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 21:37 | 4455264 philipat
philipat's picture

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to become a car salesman."

And don't call me Shirley?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 21:41 | 4455280 philipat
philipat's picture

"You would think the 0.01% would be all over these car deals."

They don't drive American cars. So the 0.01% has that much in common with the rest of the world

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 06:23 | 4456498 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

or worse, a Windows Car-it will go the way of the ZUNE and SURFACE

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:11 | 4454240 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

GM truck inventories are at 156 days and building when healthy, normal levels are 60 day.

And it's by no means just GM or their trucks that are being "stacked deep & that will have to be sold Cheap, and then CHEAPER."

With the exception of premium badge marques (and they may likely join the dealer blues sooner than many believe), the vehicles are absolutely piling up everywhere.

Thus, a big decision harkens for the automakers; to keep up present levels of production, even if it means literally continuously piling on higher levels of cash on the hood so dealers will dare accept them (assuming they have the land size necessary to store them), or to cut production & pull the layoff/idle assembly line lever.

The consumer is broke dick tapped out. Look at the rate of restaurant closings, chain-based and otherwise, recently. It's EPIC.

This is the condition that Bernanke broken markets ultimately end up in. Always.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:12 | 4454513 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Soon the DC US to will be commanding that their American victims buy a GM car or go to a FEMA camp.


"My guillotine get 50 heads per day."

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:12 | 4454516 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Anecdotal data.   We need two new vans for our business.   Went to the local Ford dealership on Tuesday, around 11:30am.    The place was MOBBED with customers.   They have a bell they ring everytime a sale was made - it rang multiple times when I was there.


Went to go sign paperwork today to have vans ready for our guys.    Again, multiple customers at the desks.   these folks spanned all age groups.    It wasn't what I would have expected.    Maybe two aberrant days....

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:33 | 4454583 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

As some know, I have a client who owns a chain of dealerships (imports and domestics, including 4 Ford franchises) - I promise all that dealers are now blowing out much of their inventory via leases - heavily subsidized - at a lease to sales ration of something close to 80% to 20% (just a decade ago, you could flip that ratio).

The consumers who NEED a new vehicle are leasing new cars, and the average transaction prices are now declining due to manufacturer AND dealership incentives - and the SUBPRIME customers are now being courted heavily again.

The used car market is going to be absolutely flooded with 2 and 3 year old, low mileage, off-lease cars in the near future, and then used car prices will plunge like a lead anchor, further pressuring new Dar prices downwards.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:33 | 4454588 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The average cost of a new car is more than most people make in a year. It's going to be leasing from here on out.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:30 | 4455011 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

That is interesting. Bought a car today and the salesman asked if we wanted to buy or lease. I had never been asked that question before.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:27 | 4455003 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Just bought a new Honda Civic sedan for my wife today. We went in to the dealership after a movie on Monday (my company is now synched with the Government and has it as a new holiday) just to take a look and to find out if we wanted leather or cloth. We were going to make a purchase in 2 months when a child graduates from college and pass on the older car. There were a few new 2013's available and we ended up buying one of them much cheaper than I thought. It ended up being $1,000 less than Edmunds True Market Value. There were not many people in the show room and the salesman was more aggressive than what I had been used to in the past.

Out the door we paid about $60 less for this car than the identical Civic model we bought new in May of 2007 even though the car now has many more features. I got an "e price" from a competitor just to check how good of a deal I might have been getting. My dealer matched the price and I think was very happy even though he indicated that they were losing money on the sale. Don't you love these guys? They wanted the deal so bad that they were willing to "lose" money. I think there is weakness and I was able to work a deal.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:17 | 4455725 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Fred, it's great you got a "good deal", and edmund's tends to the high side while kbb tends to the low.  Know this; The euphoria you feel right now will be paid for by the loss of a paycheck of the workers who assembled, and built the components for, your wife's new Honda Civic.

They really are amazing machines, kinda like iPhones.  Thing is, the market is saturated, the channels are stuffed.  Outside autos, where is credit (growth)?

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 00:15 | 4455927 Seer
Seer's picture

Well, That was completely out of character!  Honda's have engines.  Flinstones ONLY use foot power! (I'm sensing a fraud here!)

I've NEVER bought a new vehicle.  Closest was about 4 years old.  Um, well, I think that my tractor might have been a bit newer (though, still, used- heavily).

"They wanted the deal so bad that they were willing to "lose" money."

They already lost money, they just didn't want to lose more by sitting on inventory.

My 24-year-old Corolla still manages to get me around, AND, its fuel mileage is still competitive with the higher fuel-mileage cars being made today.  I keep telling myself that being able to work on it is also a plus, that is, until I start scraping my knuckles and cussing....

Latest "new" car was a 20-year-old diesel truck.  A mere 248k miles on it.  It'll outlast me... and, I've got money left over to actually use it :-)  OK, it's my farm truck, but...

The moral of the story is to obtain whatever it is that provides you with the most utility to make your life work.  As I tell the anti-Hummer folks, a Hummer (which I do really hate), if packed with people, can actually be more efficient on a miles-per-gallon-per-person basis than say a Prius with only one person: problem is that Hummers are rarely packed with people- poor use of tool makes the tool look like a poor tool (and poor tools are, well...)

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 03:53 | 4456394 thestarl
thestarl's picture

Pound for pound Seer the Corolla kills em.My wifes corolla 14 yrs old 225k on the clock regular services never missed a beat 

For a little 4 cyl got some balls to

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 22:46 | 4455585 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Call me crazy, but I sorta feel like a visitor to this place called earth.  I look around, and I see many wondrous things.  I use these wondrous things, in fact, I'm using one right now.

Under the surface, there lie intractable issues that no one here is willing to address.  I don't mean you, TIS.  In fact, I suspect we may be fellow travellers.

I think ORI and LoP have thought about these things for more than a minute or two, also.

There are others I won't name who, one the surface, seem legit, but are not.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:03 | 4454215 OH10DESERTER
OH10DESERTER's picture

2009 = Cash for Clunkers = trade steel for China to continue to purchase Treasuries

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:47 | 4454132 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Can you say "rent a wreck"?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:53 | 4454169 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Years ago I needed a slightly long term rental (like a month) so I checked Ugly Duckling Rent-a-car ... their rates were higher than renting from the Dollar/Herz/Avis crowd, so fuck renting a wreck.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 00:49 | 4456024 Seer
Seer's picture

Hell, I have too much experience driving wrecks as it is (my own), why the hell would I want to rent one?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:48 | 4454137 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

The good news get to do the same job as your grandfather. The bad news earn the same wage. GO AMERICA!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:03 | 4454211 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

There are many more things to manufacture than cars.

And ... by golly ... with the cost of transportation and wage parity approaching ... well ... I'm turning over small manufacturing opportunities and looking at them.  Is it time?  Maybe not yet.  But ... maybe in the next few years.  

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:43 | 4454110 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:11 | 4454259 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

They sell direct to consumers. Can't channel stuff when no downstream outlets exist....


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:22 | 4454264 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Its only up a mere 3.5 billion dollars of market cap on the prospect that they MAY sell 35k cars this year....  


Its basically free here at 220 considering its going to 1000.



Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:07 | 4454496 Seer
Seer's picture

As questionable as they may be (and I'm being polite here) at least they're not Twitter.  This shit has al the feel of the dot-com bubble: as a matter of fact it's all one huge bubble-fuck combining a LOT of shit bubbling up.

BTW - We need laws to outlaw Tesla vehicles from operating on/over wooden bridges.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:23 | 4454556 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

There's nothing like the feeling of parking your car in your garage, getting into some comfortable clothes after a rough day, pouring a tall drink of water/ale/bourbon, unwinding, maybe taking a cat nap, and awakening to the sound of firetrucks and the pungent aroma of burning house.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 00:54 | 4456035 Seer
Seer's picture

As an optimist I'd see it as a means of avoiding having to clean out the garage :-) (though I don't have one, well, I've got an open bay kind of thing for the tractor)  WIN WIN!

KIdding aside, can you imagine how busy firetrucks are going to be when we have a bunch of urban people maintaining their own power systems?  It's this reason why I tend to think that decentralization of electricity is going to go up against big insurance and... lose.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 10:17 | 4457019 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I know of someone who this happened to (what I describe above); it wash't recently, though, and it was a Ford SUV - something about leaves & debris accumulating in the engine bay, and a relay having to do with the cruise control or intermittent wipers stalk someone causing heat high enough to combust that material after the vehicle stops moving & is shut down.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:45 | 4454116 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Will O buy up ALL inventory and give a car to every GOVT. employee or every signup for OhCare?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:46 | 4454129 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Can I have a new bicycle, instead? My Surly got stolen. :(

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:52 | 4454162 Froman
Froman's picture can have a new Surley Fat Bike!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:37 | 4454377 DadzMad
DadzMad's picture

Ouch!  Sorry to hear it.  Their touring and trail bikes are really popular here in Madison in the winter.  Some cool studded set-ups.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:03 | 4454475 Seer
Seer's picture

That SUCKS!  I HATE bike nappers!

I've got a decent older touring bike (questionable whether it was built with that in mind, but the long stays result in it working as one) and, though not all that valuable, I wouldn't want to have it get away.  Stored in my shop's rafters for now: miss my bike-riding days.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:04 | 4454223 headhunt
headhunt's picture

So... an 'obama car' much like the obama phone, a new GDP growth segment; government assistance.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 21:00 | 4455117 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

All O-Cars will come with "Explosive" extras!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:46 | 4454122 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Even Mercedes is sending me and calling me with offers for 2 free payments and 2 years all maintenance paid for

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:50 | 4454426 Seer
Seer's picture

Hold on a bit longer and I'm sure you can pick up an over-priced one at half-price.

Most folks tend to suggest that 1993 was the last real good year for Mercedes cars.

Would love to have a nice Unimog- best Mercedes ever!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:47 | 4454130 Cochise
Cochise's picture

Would be helpful to show timelines that don't start at the bottom of the market. In the same way you would ridicule someone for showing a value chart where the timeline starts at the height of the market. 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:47 | 4454131 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

WEATHER ... strikes again!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:53 | 4454164 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Makes sense.
The weather down here in south Florida plunged below
70F for our annual 10 days of winter.
My local dealers overflow lots, are overflowing onto
wasteland around the local airstrip.
Same as it was in 2009.
Looks like the Treasury was trading on inside info when they got rid of the last of its GM shares last autumn.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:47 | 4454134 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Before long people are going to be wearing capes that have never been washed and going showerless and peddling cheap trinkets.  Just like the renaissance fetivals they hold where idiots put on stupid outfits and talk funny and try jerking off turtles.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:51 | 4454156 DavrosoftheDaleks
DavrosoftheDaleks's picture

I guess you haven't been to Philadelphia.  That's the status quo here.  FYI, I'm long cheap trinkets and short turtles.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:49 | 4454419 BandGap
BandGap's picture

+1 for "jerking off turtles".

I never knew.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:48 | 4454136 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Great interview with Karl Denninger on Obummercare and the economy...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:49 | 4454139 Sleepless Knight
Sleepless Knight's picture

The best car today is any one thats paid for.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:47 | 4454413 Seer
Seer's picture

Actually, the best one is one that works the best for you and costs you the least to operate.  If you owe a lot then it's the bank that's on the hook.  NOTE: I have no outstanding car (or tractor) loans.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:49 | 4454143 DavrosoftheDaleks
DavrosoftheDaleks's picture

Need to add to article the price of used cars has fallen quite significantly of late too, wish I could remember where to find the chart.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:03 | 4454218 dtwn
dtwn's picture

According to Manheim Consulting, it looks like used vehicle prices have been sorta flat (but on a down-trend) over the past few years:

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:44 | 4454399 Seer
Seer's picture

I'd wager that the low-fuel-mileage vehicles aren't devaluing anywhere near like what the SUV kinds are.

Trucks, on the other hand, defy things a bit in that they have a bit more utility (if one is talking about a REAL truck, none of the silly "racing" kinds of trucks).

I often look at used tractors (a fetish of mine) and I see someone selling a 35+ year-old tractor for more than what they were when new.  And this one wasn't even one of those "restored antique" jobbies that folks tend to pawn off as having some value.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:45 | 4455061 seek
seek's picture

People are holding onto cars longer, and they're lasting a lot longer as well. Not surprised they're holding value. Plus cash for clunkers wiped out a lot of competitive vehicles.

I'm mentioned many times here my brother runs an automotive related business, primarily recycling engines. He's been in business 20+ years and is shutting down this year, between longer lasting cars that are junk when they're older (not worth repairing as too many parts need to be replaced when they do wear out) and cash for clunkers wiping out the future used fleet, he doesn't have enough business to sustain himself, and he was the last man standing in the area.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:57 | 4455102 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Chalk up another win for Chalky!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:52 | 4454159 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Channel stuffing really says a lot about a company. They're making this quarter look better at the expense of next quarter looking worse. When the company is only focused on the next 3 months, do you really think that company will exist 20 years from now?

/short GM

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:01 | 4454462 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

When Internaional quit making the 'Scout' the employees on the assembly line got such a bad attitude that the last months production was practically undrivable.  This is probably not a good time to buy a vehicle if you want it assembled correctly and not missing parts.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 00:02 | 4455892 Seer
Seer's picture

It's desperation time, pure and simple.  Growth is dead.  Kind of hard to make stuff work in a grow-or-die environment when growth is dead.

The intense competition for resources is making it tougher to think long-term.  It's not necessarily anyone's "fault."

We pulled so much future growth forward that there's no more steam.  And in an "economies of scale" business climate this is going to hurt a lot: economies of scale in reverse are, despite how big companies are, going to put a big squeeze on margins.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:54 | 4454172 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Economy seems to be tapering.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:52 | 4455088 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Spending Money for anything other than food, shelter, and heat seems to be tapering.

Forward, Nazobamunism!




Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:54 | 4454173 Spungo
Spungo's picture

"2016 = cash for clunkers 2.0"

What about a cash for clunkers housing program? They set your old house on fire and give you a tax credit to build a new one.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:10 | 4454249 drink or die
drink or die's picture

I believe that's what a war is (minus the tax credit).

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:55 | 4454180 wmbz
wmbz's picture

Credit score 300? No problem... We will get you done, son!

Zero down 72 month finacing. Upside down and ass backwards in your current car? No problem, we are the bank!

Just get your butt down to Slick Willies Chevy GMC. We treat you like family!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:52 | 4454435 BandGap
BandGap's picture

No shit, a local coomercial says that even if you have a dunghill for a credit report, if you have a $10 an hour job they'll get you into a car.

They are just great people, trying to help out single moms and all.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:02 | 4454469 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Hard to refuse, when you need that car to get to your $10 job, your Medicaid and Food Stamp hearings, the court hearings when they try to steal your kids and the WalMart outside of town that has the only fodder you can afford.  

Best advice: start now figuring out how you're going to stop them from reposessing it when the SHTF.  There'll be nothing they can do with it anyway, so FEITCTAJ.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:05 | 4454228 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Emperor Obama Issues Another Executive Order

President Obama on Air Force One Wednesday will sign an executive order to streamline U.S. exports and imports, according to the White House. The directive “cuts processing and approval times from days to minutes for small businesses that export American-made goods and services by completing the International Trade Data System by December 2016,” the White House said.


If it walks like data mining, talks like data mining, then it's data mining.



Wed, 02/19/2014 - 20:50 | 4455078 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Jeez, I think we have all had enough of this illegal cocksucker!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:56 | 4455870 Seer
Seer's picture

Fine, enough witrh your constant jabbering and fucking do something about it.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:12 | 4454256 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Come ON...  GM?  GM is for the bottom 80% peasants.

How is the higher end German automotive bling selling?

There are two separate economies in the US.   One for top 20% and one for the bottom 80%.    

Can we have some information on the economy that matters?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:38 | 4454381 Seer
Seer's picture

Bottom 80% can't afford shit.

I would figure that the majority of the sales are likely fleet (replacements).

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:04 | 4454477 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

What percent is it that can only afford a toyota corrola?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:46 | 4455834 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm hoping that you're not knocking Corollas.  I've got one.... it's about 24 years old (I"d like to be able to buy a remanufactured engine to drop into it when the current one dies).  But, no, I cannot "afford" a new car.  As a matter of fact, I've really never been able to- I've always bought used.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:36 | 4454372 Seer
Seer's picture

Not seeing the problem here.  Turkeys and stuffing always go together.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:41 | 4454392 nakki
nakki's picture

Obviously Tesla is the company of the future. Just ask Elon and their non-gap accounting staff. Only up 15% after hours. GM good luck selling that 75k Silverado.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 18:06 | 4454493 SimpleSimon
SimpleSimon's picture

They are stocking up for a promotion campaign - signup for Obamacare, we will give you a Obamacar.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 21:08 | 4455145 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"Congratulations, sir. This newest Executive Order gives you personal ownership of every residential building in the US."
"Great! Kick out the people in there now. I have a lot of Mexicans and Chinese ready to move in, and they are paying cash!"

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 19:07 | 4454732 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

the work as fallen off a cliff this year, 2014 is the slowest start for my business in a decade......looks like it's back to digging the hole again.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 21:25 | 4455227 Vidbizz
Vidbizz's picture

Of course car sales are tanking...we all gotta pay $350+ /month more for fucking health insurance. 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:54 | 4455863 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, it's Obamacare that's responsible for this long-term economic downturn.  The pre-Obamacare channel stuffing either didn't exist or was a statistical fabrication in order to show that Obamacare isn't responsible for the downturn.

In the Philippines (my wife is from there- I often reference it because I'm familiar with it) there's no Obamacare YET, mysteriously, cars are VERY expensive!

The US was fostering inflation around the globe since Nixon dropped the USD from the gold standard.  Since then it's been "hide the shitty USD."  Well, it's now no longer possible to play that game, our dependence on bilking other countries is coming back on us.  But, yeah, maybe it's Obamacare...  Feel free to overthrow the govt and stick in whatever puppets you want, but when it turns into a pile of goo as well I don't want to hear some other lame excuse for why it failed...

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