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Ukraine Military Reveals Protesters Stole Weapons Cache; Guilty Of "Terrorist Acts"

Tyler Durden's picture


With Putin hoping that they can just keep it from going full civil war for a few more days, Ukraine continues to slide towards a dismal result. This morning sees the next level of escalation in the break-away Western region:


And with that, the 'excuse' the military needed to get involved as Interfax reports the Ukraine's SBU starts "Anti-terrorist" operation in the Western region of Ivano-Frankvisk. With 25 dead and 241 injured, according to the AP, we suspect these numbers are sadly just the start.


Via Interfax,

Volodymyr Porodko, deputy head of the Ukrainian Security Service, said weapons and ammunition have been stolen from the Ukrainian Security Service department in Ivano-Frankivsk.


"A total of 268 service pistols, two rifles, three assault rifles, 92 grenades, and some 15,000 cartridges were seized in the Ukrainian Security Service department in Ivano-Frankivsk," he said while meeting with foreign ambassadors in the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry on Wednesday.

Russia is starting to comment:

Extremists are to blame for the events happening in Ukraine, however opposition forces, which refused the compromise, and Western countries, which interfered in the domestic affairs of Ukraine, bare some responsibility as well, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.


"Of course, the blame is on extremists, who tried all these weeks and all these months to bring the situation to such forceful scenario but considerable share of responsibility is also on opposition activists, who refused compromise, gave the authorities demands outside the legal frame and in the end turned out to be incapable to fulfill what has been agreed," Lavrov said at a news conference following a meeting with his Kuwaiti counterpart.

Ukraine CDS spiked to 4 year highs...


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Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:09 | 4452168 GVB
GVB's picture

Go get 'em Boys

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:11 | 4452179 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

It was 19 Saudis with box cutters I bet.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:15 | 4452195 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

C'mon Ukes, we can let you borrow our Patriot Act to take care of those domestic terrorists.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:31 | 4452219 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

What's happening in Kiev right now is Putin's worst nightmare.

If it can happen in Kiev, it can happen in Moscow.

Many have forgotten about the fraudulent Putin's elections, but not Russian people.

Most of the Kremlin's efforts were focused on Moscow, where an exit poll suggested that United Russia had won less than 30% support. But after a long delay the result came in at 46.5%, supporting Stalin's famous maxim that it is the counting rather than the voting that matters. The internet boiled over with stories of election-rigging. In some regions turnout appeared to exceed 140%. In Chechnya United Russia scored 99.5%. A similar result was reported in a Moscow psychiatric hospital.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:33 | 4452277 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

"If it can happen in Kiev, it can happen in Moscow."

It could (and started to) happen right until a year ago when all Zio-sponsored NGOs were banned and expelled from Russia.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:47 | 4452330 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Do you really think Russian opposition is not paying attention to what is happening in Kiev and not organizing against your beloved dictator Putin?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:54 | 4452363 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Do you really think your neocon shilling is cleverly opaque?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:56 | 4452385 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Repeat: "one can't be an ignorant Putin's sheep without a neocon du jour."

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:34 | 4452543 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Facts for the brainwashed by Russian propaganda Putin's sheep:

1. "The authenticity of the recording has not been confirmed" WAS DIRECT Zero Hedge's quote.

2. The audio WAS leaked by and originated from FSB.

3. Zero Hedge IS full of beans, as one opinionated and obsessed with Putin "winning" Tyler Durden often quotes RIA Novosti as if it were a credible objective source.

RIA Novosti is the largest "news" (propaganda lies) agency in Russia. It operates under the Russian Ministry of Communications and Mass Media. In December 2013, Putin appointed Dmitry Kiselev to be the president of RIA Novosti and Russia's chief propagandist.

Russia's Chief Propagandist

 Even by the standards of Soviet television, the Russia Channel has been churning out propaganda that would have made their Soviet predecessors blush.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:43 | 4452590 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Unable to admit that he was wrong, he instead totally dances around his claim (in bolded text) that the recording was fake.

Of course, this little fact forces a reality check that destroys totally the story.

I can't quantify the value of his work, but I can tell you it is vastly overpaid.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:54 | 4452606 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

If you don't like the facts, attack the messenger, and it will go away. Right?


Judge Who Jailed Ukraine Protesters Shot Dead


"Zero Hedge has done it again -- spreading and promoting RUSSIAN propaganda lies."

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:04 | 4452659 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

I'm sure Russia like any other country employs propaganda. What irks me is the only good source of imformation on TV was RT until my cable carrier dropped it, the bastages

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:22 | 4452770 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Russia Today (RT) is sponsored by the state-owned Russian news agency, RIA Novosti.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:17 | 4453062 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

If it can happen in Kiev, it can happen in DC. There would just be a lot more waddling involved, and people would have to get off the couch and stop watching American Idol. Oh shit, nevermind. It could never happen in DC.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:05 | 4455665 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Volodymyr Porodko, deputy head of the Ukrainian Security Service, said weapons and ammunition have been stolen from the Ukrainian Security Service department in Ivano-Frankivsk.

"A total of 268 service pistols, two rifles, three assault rifles, 92 grenades, and some 15,000 cartridges were seized in the Ukrainian Security Service department in Ivano-Frankivsk," he said while meeting with foreign ambassadors in the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry on Wednesday."


If the protesters haven't liberated some self propelled artillery by this point, they're not trying hard enough.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:26 | 4453107 william114085
william114085's picture

RT is the "CNN" of the Russia

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:10 | 4452689 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Cult:    I for one agree with you on that very interesting thought.

However, should such revolts start in Moscow the government response would be crushing way beyond what we see in Kiev.

The result could be an even stronger iron fist rule of Russia.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:18 | 4452738 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Last time Kiev had protests (Orange Revolution), Putin squeezed democracy in Russia.

Right now he is scared and tightening the screws in Russia and cracking down on DozhdTV, Russia's last independent television station.

And it was not a coincidence that Putin has ordered a propagandist makeover of RIA Novosti (essentially an arm of former Soviet KGB, now called the FSB) to broadcast Goebbels-like propaganda lies to Russian people 24-7.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:54 | 4452370 albanian
albanian's picture

too match reason NOT GOOD for you.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:59 | 4452405 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

"too match" or "too much" ?!?

Just trying to understand what you are trying to say?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:54 | 4452368 john39
john39's picture

desperate times for zionism.  increasingly people see what is really going on in the world, and fight back.  i think we are on the verge of truly historic events, where the global shadow government is exposed and destroys itself.   God willing.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:14 | 4452473 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Oh sure, it's the Jews fault! Don't you ever get sick of being stupid?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:16 | 4452486 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Don't you ever get sick of being jewish? 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:45 | 4452603 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Hey buddy, think you oughta read the rules regarding how you're supposed to write on this forum and treat your betters with a little respect. Next time I'm reporting you, stupid goy.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:51 | 4452621 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

"stupid goy"  who is getting banned here Tyler?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:02 | 4452645 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I DO treat my betters with respect...which may explain the problem you're having.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:08 | 4452665 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

You're just not a fast learner are you? Now, we've all had enough of your nazi bullshit, so why not just shut the fuck up before I lose my cool and report your redneck ass? NOW STFU!!!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:17 | 4452726 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

If you were a real jew, you would have proclaimed anti-semitic a long time ago...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:25 | 4452800 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

I really hate having to pull out the big guns, as its done so often, it seems to have lost a bit of shock value. But okay- fuck you anti-Semite! It's people like you, that get people like me killed by pitchfork carrying peasants throughout history.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:05 | 4453008 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And it's people like you that have gotten everyone else killed throughout history (or enslaved) often down to the last woman and child, sometimes crucified, raped and hung on barn doors (Eastern front) or buried in mass graves (Polish Intelligensia). Sometimes, people carry pitchforks for a good reason. Heck, your own leadership are willing to have you mass murdered to get their way (and a state).

You know, an apology for killing a US president or Austrian prince wouldn't go astray either... 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:31 | 4453133 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Oh sure, the Jew is responsible for all them bad actions of the simple goy. Bwahaha! Maybe people like you ought to learn to think, and not trust people like the big bad Jews.
By the way: we're living in a predatory system which will never change. Accept this small bit of Jewish wisdom, and see that there will never be Jesuses or Utopias. It's all created by Disney, my friend. Time for goy to grow up and quit believing fairey tales.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:45 | 4452922 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

BTW your use of "redneck" in that context can easily be construed as a violation of Section 261 of the Swiss Federal Penal Code. So why don't we all be happy with Articles 7,15,16,17,20,21,34,35 and the other protections of fundamental rights enshrined in the Constitution. Besides, Bibi and the gang won't be happy if they find out that some khazer is going to send maintenance costs through he roof.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:19 | 4452728 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Sorry, but that really sounded childish, kinda like Tom Hanks in Money Pit where he tells Shelly Long " It's a big house! We can share it! You stay on your side i'll stay on mine" hahaha then you call him a goy! Pitiful>_<

Talking to you suckato!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:30 | 4452847 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Hahaha! You're a very clever mouth breather. Where's all the hate coming from? Any of you ever have a bad experience with Jews? Get ripped off? Raped? Killed by one? Didn't think so. So it just boils down to one thing:ENVY. I'm sorry we aren't stupid like you. Sorry we don't live beyond our means. Sorry we don't buy gold teeth. Fucking losers.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:46 | 4453217 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It's only slightly retarded to blame an entire race for something a few greedy bastards do.  I bet you will gladly execute little children because of how they were born.  I hope we meet someday.  The pleasure won't be yours.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:31 | 4452546 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

No, of course not.  Jewish people who happen to commit crimes are not guilty of those crimes becuse it is antisemitic to accuse a Jewish person of committing a crime, irrespective of whether or not a person who committed a crime happened to be Jewish because blaming 'Jewish people' in the way we commonly blame 'other groups' is nazi nazi hitler hitler godwin's law cumming all over your face...

As Abe Foxman would say, the majority of those who killed the Czar, and who made billions by robbing Russia and Ukraine of their wealth after the collapse of the USSR "just happened to be" Jewish.  Henry Ford and Charlie Lindbergh were simply full of hate, therefore nothing they wrote had any truth to it...

hitler and stuff.


By the way, sarc tags are the new irony.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:37 | 4452567 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

As a group, responsible for more killing, genocide and debt slavery than any other people on earth. Tough record to beat.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:54 | 4452628 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Debt slaves deserve what they get. Fuck them! Ever heard of living within your means, dummy?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:18 | 4453071 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

By your logic, then, the Jews of Europe who could not afford the $1000 debt of Weismandel's bargain deserved what they got (beit the gas chamber, labor camps, or ghettos).

Even within the loony and genocidal end of the Zionist ideological spectrum- you're pushing the limits... which begs the question - whose puppet you actually are?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:29 | 4452838 Tim_
Tim_'s picture

The jew was born to murder the world.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:49 | 4452613 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Why don't you go pedal your hate on storm front. Nobody wants to hear your bullshit here. Now shove the fuck off bitch.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:25 | 4452796 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

With all your down arrows it sure seems someone wants to hear it. They have been ejected from nearly 100 Countries for one reason or another. Some more than once :-)Plus anyone with a half a brain knows that storm front is definitely compromised hasbara!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:43 | 4452918 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Compromised?! Please do tell what that means. Ejected from nearly 100 countries?! Bwahahaha! You're a very sad little man aren't you?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:42 | 4453201 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Compromised?! Please do tell what that means...



“Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers and P’rushim! You go about over land and sea to make one proselyte; and when you succeed, you make him twice as fit for Gei-Hinnom as you are!"...

Matt 23:15  Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 14:11 | 4453345 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Uh oh! The gigs up! Lets get outta here!

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 02:10 | 4456236 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

The gigs up!...


Ya know, I didn't say the preceeding.  It was said by one of "your own".  And at least He had authentic creds that showed direct lineage to Abraham through Isaac.  There's not a one of you guys today that can prove descendency to Abraham since the Romans destroyed "your" records in 70ad.  In fact, you're as likely to be related to Ishmael as your "enemies" are through Isaac.  So yeah, the gigs up, time to get outta here.



Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:24 | 4452794 Tim_
Tim_'s picture

"A Real Case Against the Jews" by Marcus Eli Ravage

"You accuse us of stirring up revolution in Moscow. Suppose we admit the charge. What of it? Compared with what Paul the Jew of Tarsus accomplished in Rome, the Russian upheaval is a mere street brawl" (p. 347).

"You make much noise and fury about the undue Jewish influence in your theaters and movie palaces. Very good; granted your complaint is well-founded. But what is that compared to our staggering influence in your churches, your schools, your laws and your governments, and the very thoughts you think every day?" (p. 347).

"You have not begun to appreciate the real depth of our guilt. We are intruders. We are disturbers. We are subverters. We have taken your natural world, your ideals, your destiny, and played havoc with them. We have been at the bottom not merely of the latest great war but of nearly all your wars, not only of the Russian but of every other major revolution in your history. We have brought discord and confusion and frustration into your personal and public life. We are still doing it. No one can tell how long we shall go on doing it" (p. 347).

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:39 | 4452892 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Maybe you oughta feel a little embarrassed posting things like this. If its true, it just goes to show we are your superiors. Such a small group having such an influence over so many others. Kinda like affirmative action for the white people.
Jew> wasp> Asian > Latino> blacks. Haha! We're at the top of the food chain goys.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:41 | 4453194 Tim_
Tim_'s picture

I am an antibody to the jewish infestation of the White body politic.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 14:08 | 4453332 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Bwahaha! I wouldn't appear as boastful, if I were you. We've all been to Walmart. 95% of the white race is no more than a cleaner version of the volks that populate Africa. Utterly worthless.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 23:03 | 4455659 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Zionism != Jewishness.  Check yer premises.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:34 | 4452281 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture

Destabilization fails when the Ukranian police start killing the terrorists in their streets.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:58 | 4452401 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

It did happen in Moscow, in 1993: Perhaps Americans forgot the events took place when tanks were shooting at the Parliament building and scores were left dead, but Russians didn't.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:01 | 4452648 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"is Putin's worst nightmare."


Don't worry, right near the end of the Olympics things get escalated and Russia will "help out".

Putin will PR another bare chested nature trip.

Putin's ZH mancrush team will have to change another set of pants....


As the world turns....  Could be a soap.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:13 | 4453044 silvermail
silvermail's picture

@ Cult_of_Reason

You speak here lies and distortion of facts, in the best tradition of card crooks of propaganda from faux news.
In your lies, you try to do substitution of concepts the two different concepts:
- Results of voting for United Russia party, as a Party.
- Results of voting for Putin personally, as President of Russia.

Take my word, I know better than you what is happening in Russia and what mood among Russian citizens.
Most of the population of Russia support Putin completely.
Another part of the population supports Putin partially.
And only 5% of Russia do not support Putin.

I often hear statements like you professional liars and provocateurs what the Russian people do not support Putin.
But the election results say otherwise.
I often hear statements like you professional liars and provocateurs that Putin's elections were unfair.
But the results of the vote for Putin in Europe and in all other countries of the world, say the opposite.
I mean those voting, which took place in the Russian embassies around the world - in Berlin, London, Paris, Washington and so on.
In all these countries, under the close supervision of Western observers, the majority of Russian citizens voted for Putin.

For this reason, your lies can deceive only the very illiterate Western citizens.
But here on the ZH, you will not find these illiterate people.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:21 | 4452226 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

A global heat map would be pretty hot right now.

India is starting to heat up. Looks like they want to cancel the upcoming general elections.

Not good all around...10 fingers nto enough...Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Thailand, Ukraine, India starting, Sudan, Central Africa...on and on. Plan is clear.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:36 | 4452287 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the sad irony might have been had the USA pursued an aggressive policy towards the Assad regime...I should say "executed upon its aggressive policy"...that would have been very "bullish" for existing authorities.

Instead we backed down and now we have global anarchy ensuing.
I think you'll see some serious gun slinging on Wall Street over the next six to nine months as these conflicts start spreading all over the place.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:45 | 4452322 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


the sad irony might have been had the USA pursued an aggressive policy towards the Assad regime...I should say "executed upon its aggressive policy"...that would have been very "bullish" for existing authorities.

Ummm, you may not be aware of it, but the existing authorities in Ukraine (you know, the democratically elected government) are the ones the US is trying to overthrow with paid lackeys.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:27 | 4453117 silvermail
silvermail's picture

In Ukraine, about 20 policemen killed. 11 of them died from gunshot wounds. Others were beaten to death mob thugs or burned alive.
How are called those who kill police from firearms?
How are called those who throw in police and public buildings, Molotov cocktails?
Why all the Western media so stubbornly want to be called conventional armed Bandits and Terrorists only as:


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:30 | 4452845 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

You forgot your sarc tag vet!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:29 | 4452830 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Yes Sir, I just wonder when they officially call it "world war"?hopefully NOT after the nukes fly, lest we may not get the message

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:16 | 4452204 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Have you ever cut yourself with a boxcutter? Those things are nasty you know!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:19 | 4452213 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Let's send in Homeland Security maybe mellow them out a little....burn off a few million of their "billions of rounds".

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:13 | 4452466 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Hey TahoeBilly,

I remember we exchanged some views on the Pussy Riot tools awhile back.

Check this shit out- The riot girls recently tried to do one of their horrifically bad songs in Sochi, and they were, umm.... "dissuaded" from doing so...


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:33 | 4452859 spellbound
spellbound's picture

Video taken down.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 15:20 | 4453685 gallistic
gallistic's picture

Better see it before the bureau "disappears" it down the memory is priceless.

Try this one; it worked for me just now.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:12 | 4452182 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's funny how everybody who disagrees with the goobermint is labeled an extremist. It never occurs to them that the policies they pursue are what is extreme. 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:14 | 4452189 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Yup...and no politicians here in the US of A aside from Ron Paul has the balls to call the Federal Reserve financial terrorists for taking from the poor and giving to the rich. Anybody that stands in the governments way will be called a terrorist and needs to be terminated immediately.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:15 | 4452200 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

American need to stop ignoring their responsibilities.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:26 | 4452248 FriendlyStranger
FriendlyStranger's picture

How do you defeat the television?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:30 | 4452265 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Turn it off.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:35 | 4452283 FriendlyStranger
FriendlyStranger's picture

It has the masses under its mesmerizing spell.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:38 | 4452295 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I can rebel only for myself.

When we're all out in the streets, something will have changed for all of us.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:43 | 4452594 forwardho
forwardho's picture

That something will be hunger.

As long as the many are fed they will obey.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:30 | 4452266 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Take out the source.  (I can't be the only one who read "The Monkey Wrench Gang")

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:53 | 4452358 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I resemble that remark...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:52 | 4452351 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I used mine for target practice.  It didn't work well after a dozen 45/70 Government rounds...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:55 | 4452381 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


I used mine for target practice.  It didn't work well after a dozen 45/70 Government rounds...

Nothing works well after that kind of hammering.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:06 | 4452441 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

You should see what 1/2lb of tannerite does to about 'Over The Air' TV.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:29 | 4452261 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

For those who do not understand what was meant by the militia too, all one needs to do is share Section 13 from Virginia's Bill of Rights:


That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:33 | 4452276 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Correct.  So remind me, how does the government get away with handing out guns to foreigners in Mexico again?

The civil power is derived from the governed.

They no longer have my consent motherfucker.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:41 | 4452307 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The goobermint gets away with it because the majority of Merikans simply don't care as long as they get their monthly check. The pigs have been fattened, soon they will be led to the slaughter.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:43 | 4452537 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

For the legion of low-intellect lefties who want to demonstrate their stupidity by quibbling about the English language meaning of "well-regulated" I would recommend reading the works of Fletcher (1698) and Stanyan (1714) beforehand.

Then read the correspondence between Mason and Washington regarding the Virginia Militia. Back then, gun-toting rednecks worldwide brought their own black guns, powder, and high-capacity bags of balls, along with their own BEER for the weekend chug & shoots. The Virginian officer corps had a predilection for RUM (which created some desires for slightly better "regulation" among those with responsibility for victory). However, to this day in Switzerland, while most of the black rifles are paid for by the State, the gun-toting rednecks still have to bring or buy their own ammunition and BEER at the range (outside of certain State-sponsored parties where some brass is included with the price of admission).

Well-regulated doesn't, and never did, mean what most people think it means (but then Vizzini was a pompous asswipe)


EDIT There's also Eliot's Debates, which details ad nauseam many of the nuances of the actually debate over the text and ramifications of Second Amendment through the various State ratifying Conventions. Or if you want to go really hardcore Virginian, there is David Robertson's Debates and Other Proceedings of the Convention of Virginia, convened at Richmond, on Monday the second day of June, 1788, for the purpose of Deliberating on the Constitution recommended by the Grand Federal Convention, to which is prefixed the Federal Constitution

Copies of both books should still be available from the Google Plagiarization & Intellectual-Property-Theft bot.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:47 | 4453070 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Andrew Fletcher

Abraham Stanyan on page 159

Andrew Fletcher

A good militia is of such importance to a nation, that it is the chief part of the constitution of any free government. For though as to other things, the constitution be never so slight, a good militia will always preserve the public liberty. But in the best constitution that ever was, as to all other parts of government, if the militia be not upon a right foot, the liberty of that people must perish. The militia of ancient Rome, the best that ever was in any government, made her mistress of the world: but standing armies enslaved that great people, and their excellent militia and freedom perished together. The Lacedemonians continued eight hundred years free, and in great honour, because they had a good militia. The Swisses at this day are the freest, happiest, and the people of all Europe who can best defend themselves, because they have the best militia.

.... Read the rest of the work to see how describes the difference between good and bad militias. Abraham Fletcher Abraham Stanyan’s Account of Switzerland (1714) described, “a well regulated Militia, in Opposition to a standing Army of mercenary Troops, that may overturn a Government at Pleasure.” He portrayed the Bern militia as consisting of “the whole Body of the People, from sixteen to sixty,” explaining: Every Man that is listed, provides himself with Arms at his own Expence; and the Regiments are all armed in an uniforme manner, after the newest Fashion; for which Purpose, there is an Officer called a Commissioner of Arms , whose Business it is, to inspect their Arms and Mounting, to take Care they be conformable to the Standard, and to punish such as fail in those Particulars. The Swiss experience figured prominently in the American Revolution and afterwards in American constitution building. In his Defence of the Constitutions (1787), a survey of ancient and modern republics and other political models, John Adams divided the Swiss cantons—regardless of whether they were “democratical” or “aristocratical”—as having two institutions of direct democracy: the right to bear arms and the right to vote on laws. Bern had a democratic militia system: “There is no standing army, but every male of sixteen is enrolled in the militia, and obligated to provide himself a uniform, a musket, powder, and ball; and no peasant is allowed to marry, without producing his arms and uniform. The arms are inspected every year, and the men exercised.”






Wed, 02/19/2014 - 14:30 | 4453248 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

danke vielmals. I didn't have those two in soft-copy, now I do.

Elliot's Debates- The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution

Debates and other proceedings of the Convention of Virginia

A discourse of government with relation to militias (1755)

An Account of Switzerland: Written in the Year 1714 (English Version)

Edit: WHY FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND EXPRESSION IS SO IMPORTANT AND USEFUL -- this was easy to find since "fyrd" or anything else relating to militia as far back as Alfred the Great just is so popular on ZH:

from May 2013 (with appearances by Francis Sawyer, Joyful, Ghordius, tip e, and a bunch of the other usual suspects)

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:16 | 4452721 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Anyone see the number of guns stolen?  I would be many smallish neighborhoods in the USSA have that many guns.  I would bet that many guns and that much ammo is sold every hour 5 days a week in the USSA.

Molon Labe.  But in my case they better bring the Coast Guard because all was lost in a tragic boating accident.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:17 | 4452208 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

EXACTLY....  Knowing whom the establishment Washington politico's lable extremists here in the media it is clear that the government propaganda media is against anyone that threatens the crony and corrupt status quo....

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:23 | 4452235 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"It's funny how everybody who disagrees with the goobermint is labeled an extremist. It never occurs to them that the policies they pursue are what is extreme."

They know.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:24 | 4452239 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Just what 'goobermint' are you referencing ?  The one in Kiev or the one in Brussels/D.C. ?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:30 | 4452267 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

All of the above. In this day and age do we really need goobermint?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:48 | 4452333 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I'm pretty much ok with my town collecting the trash. They do a good job.

Other than that...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:55 | 4452631 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

NEVER give your town power over something this important, that should be governed by profit motive alone.   That's right garbage collection is too much power for politicians and I know first hand..

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:36 | 4452874 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I spend half my time in a rural area. The county ran several trash dumps and couldn't keep them going. Many of them shut down because of budget issues. So now, some people have to drive 30-40milles to the nearest still operating county run dump to drop off trash.

On the other hand, a private contractor provides trash bin pick up service throughout the county. Its a large area (lots of farmers) that is spread out geographically. Yet, the private contractor is doing very well and you spend less with them each month than when you burned gas taking your trash to the local county dump when it was still operatng. The private company has a 4 or 5 year contract. If they don't provide good service at a good price they will lose their contract when it comes up for renewal.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:59 | 4452408 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I haven't seen a good argument that explains why we EVER needed government. The negatives have always washed out the positives.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:02 | 4452652 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

There are very few 'public goods' that need to be provided by government rather than groups of people voluntarily contracting for those goods/services. (Tom Woods had an interview with someone discussing this recently on the Tom Woods Radio Show podcast.)

'National defense' may be one public good with a government role, but America seems to have bought a lot of insecurity rather than security since going imperalist in the 1890s.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:11 | 4452680 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I used to be of the same mind, even though the quality and quanity of defensive and offensive capabilities are beyond the pale, the power of acceptance still resides with the people as a whole. Iraq and Afganistan are great examples of the impotence of the military. In a country like the US, I feel the military would be an even greater failure. 

It is a long way to the shores of America.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:47 | 4452325 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Is there a difference?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:27 | 4452251 kralizec
kralizec's picture

The Brits called the Founders terrorists and traitors, one should take this as high praise from mortal enemies.

Perhaps getting this weapons cache is their Lexington & Concord moment.

So long as Russia stays out of it and the West shuts the hell up, maybe the people of Ukraine have a shot at determining their own independent future!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:37 | 4452293 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Perhaps getting this weapons cache is their Lexington & Concord moment.

More likely to be their 1953 Tehran moment.

The US government is big on "democracy", unless their chosen puppets aren't elected.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:16 | 4452716 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The American founders were intelligent and well educated men who knew history. They understood the dangers of democracy (thus created a republic).  A democracy is the best political system for creating a dictatorship.  Take control of the 'schools' & the media, and you can control the limits of what people are able to think . . . and thus how they will act. It takes a minimum of physical force & resources to control and subjugate people, because they will do it to themselves.

To make a nation truly strong & prosperous, people would be encouraged to truly think for themselves & make the best of their own abilities. Such a people could not be stopped & would have little to fear.

Unfortunately, most 'leaders' lust for power over others - so don't want their own people to be strong & independent human beings.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:17 | 4452492 omi
omi's picture

From what I've heard, people in Ukraine don't really support the violent demonstrators, but they don't support Yanukovich either. 

Small business has been really hurt by some laws that were obviously passed to benefit some insiders (happens in USA all the time too). One particualr case from a friend of a relative said that they've passed a law that a small business must have an office of at least 5x5m. But many people work either selling stuff outside or importing goods, and now they suddenly can't run their business as their customers are literally forced to buy from bigger guys that benefit from the laws passed.

At the same time, there seems to be a pattern similar to other paid demonstrators that have western sources. But many people are pissed off too. I have to say that Ukraine gov't has been extremely patient, in US or even 'peaceful' Canada, those demonstrators would be locked up after maybe two weeks. And probably shot at if they were taking apart public squarts, breaking builds, occupying offices.

Few weeks ago, I saw a clip from Russian TV as the organizers (probably western) were teaching people how to make and throw molotov cocktails. Yesterday, there was a clip posted of that in action.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 15:40 | 4453818 silvermail
silvermail's picture

If I come to the U.S. and start throwing heavy stones and Molotov cocktails at the police, how long will I live after that?

And how much I'd have to throw heavy stones and Molotov cocktails, before I'll be shot dead by the police?

How after will be to write about me in the newspapers:

- "Civilian man" was shot dead by the Police? the

- Or maybe: "Activist" was shot dead by the Police?

If my actions in the United States called "terrorism", then why in Ukraine, exactly the same actions are called "protests civilians and some activists"?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:28 | 4452530 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Half the people in the Ukraine want to be ruled by the EU.  The other half wants to be ruled by Russia.  Fuck both sides.  They should want to rule themselves.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:20 | 4452749 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Perhaps they would benefit most by playing the middle. That is, having trade arrangements with both sides and not aligning with either of them.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:12 | 4452183 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

His Kuwaiti counterpart. That sounds encouraging...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:13 | 4452187 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Look Latvian and Russian ones....

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:45 | 4452320 Ulterior
Ulterior's picture

what does Latvia has to do with this you douchebag?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:14 | 4452190 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

""A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - jump fuckers...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:17 | 4452209 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Pretty much says it all.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:27 | 4452253 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Remind BO.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:38 | 4452297 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Listen, I know guys with bigger arsenals in their basements than what is listed here. You see more arms and munitions at a local gun store.

"Terrorists" just don't think big anymore.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:14 | 4452193 Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder's picture

Is this situation based on ethnic/regional lines or is it purely ideological? I'm most curious about the composition of the police force? If this is based on ethnic/regional groups, does the police have members of those groups? The point being is how many police belong to these groups or have the same ideological beliefs as the protestors, but continue to act as police and attack the protestors purely out of job security? They need to keep collecting their paycheck? How many people sell out their beliefs to keep their job? The implications for the US are obvious, how many police will continue to be police when the SHTF? 

(sorry for the repost, I asked this yesterday but it was buried too far down in one of the threads).

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:17 | 4452211 youngman
youngman's picture

I would say some have turned because they did get the 1500 gun stash...I assume some police lead them to it...and opened it up...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:50 | 4452616 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That's usually the way it works, and most certainly the way it worked in Libya, Syria is a bit more confusing but then the Israhole Ass Force can't seem to stay out of their sovereign neighbor's airspace, so it's hard to tell who they're actually trying to help or hurt in that proxy slugfest.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:58 | 4452639 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Americans loaned personal weapons to England after Dunkirk.


I could spare one or two for my favorite tall blond Ukrainian ..

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:48 | 4452331 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

I've got very limited knowledge of thge ethnic makeup of Ukranians versus Russians, but I believe they are very similar on the usually critical ethnic/religious fault lines.  To your last question, I think the # of police that do their jobs after the SHTF depends on the credibility of the currency those officer are paid in (fiat, or food/commodities).  Only a really bad tyrant would depend on local police to put their boots on the thoats of their neighbors.  Plan for Fedcoats from other regions, with RESCUE tanks, to be actively confiscating weapons and herding folks off to camps.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:52 | 4452347 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Is this situation based on ethnic/regional lines or is it purely ideological?

It's based on US government anger that the democratically elected government of Ukraine declined to fall into the EU/NATO trap. This will make it more difficult to saddle Ukraine with even more debt and then loot Ukrainian resources.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:16 | 4452202 youngman
youngman's picture

I was thinking the same thing last night...How they were going to harvest some guns......the molitov cocktails were not going to win the need firepower....1500 guns can get you 1500 more if you know what to do...

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:28 | 4452257 Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder's picture

I don't know the gun laws in Ukraine, but it's interesting to see people acquire weapons when they need them. So much for disarming the population....

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:34 | 4452282 ConManipulation
ConManipulation's picture

Remember, folks:  If you don't have fully automatic rifles and grenades on Day 1 of the Revolution then do not fret; you will have them by Day 2 of the Revolution.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:39 | 4452303 AL_SWEARENGEN

With rare exceptions aside, without arms the people of a nation are reduced to that of annoying fleas when faced with oppression from within or without. Throwing paper rocks and flaming bottles will not turn the tide.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:04 | 4452432 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Ukraine gun laws (from wiki-wrong-sometimes):

In Ukraine a license is required to own firearms. If a citizen is:

  • 21 years of age (18 if the license is for hunting)
  • has no criminal record
  • has no history of domestic violence
  • has no mental illness or history of mental illness
  • has good reason (target shooting, hunting, collection)

...then that person may be issued a license.

Once a license is issued, all guns must be kept unloaded and in a safe. If a person owns more than three firearms, the safe must have an alarm on it. Citizens are permitted to own non-fully automatic rifles and shotguns as long as they are stored properly when not in use.

Handguns are illegal except for target shooting and those who hold concealed carry permits. Handguns are only allowed in .22, 9mm, .357mag and .38 calibre, which are the common sporting calibers. Concealed carry licenses are available, but are not normally issued unless a threat to life is present and can be proven

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:06 | 4452444 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

So there's a gun registry, no real hand guns to speak of and most likely sparse personal longarm ownership.  This also means a society that is probably really short on gun use experience.  They'll need numbers on their side and they will sacrifice 10x to the police/military if they want to prevail in a full out civil war.  They need to start raiding armories, etc.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:19 | 4452744 novictim
novictim's picture

"...then that person may be issued a license."

...or MAYBE NOT.


Doubtless, the authorities in Ukraine have been slow to issue gun-permits for the past many months.



Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:16 | 4452205 Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder's picture

It's interesting to compare this with the situation in Thailand. If I understand the current state in Thailand, it is protestors vs police, however the Army seems to be siding with the protestors and protecting them.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:19 | 4452214 stant
stant's picture

i wonder about those ak 47 the us bought several months ago. rumoured to be stored at bluegrass army depot

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:27 | 4452215 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Grammy acceptance speech censored ( :

It took a pop singer, Lorde, to declare in her Grammy Award acceptance speech last month that the emperor has no clothes: “Planet Earth is run by psychopaths that hide behind slick marketing, ‘freedom’ propaganda and ‘economic growth’ rhetoric, while they construct a global system of corporatized totalitarianism. As American journalist Chris Hedges has identified, a corporate totalitarian core thrives inside a fictitious democratic shell. This core yields an ‘inverted’ totalitarian state that few recognize because it does not look like the Orwellian world of Nineteen Eighty-four.This corporate totalitarian core is spreading outward from America. Planet Earth is being rapidly militarized by the world’s major and significant states, including their police forces. Meanwhile, state surveillance is becoming universal and torture is outsourced to gulags.” The TV channels censored her speech and cut it off by substituting pre-recorded content.

On youtube her song Royals has over 199,000,000 views.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:40 | 4452290 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I really like Lorde, but I think the "censored Grammy speech" is a plain hoax. Wish it wasn't

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:41 | 4452306 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Please explain 'hoax'.  How so?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:45 | 4452321 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It didn't happen. Even the Paul Craig Roberts identifies it as a "likely hoax."

Clearly, I don't "know" that it's a hoax.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:49 | 4452338 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Even the Paul Craig Roberts identifies it as a "likely hoax." "

Not in today's article.  Link?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:54 | 4452364 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The "likely hoax" disclaimer appears near the top of the "American Stasi Police State" article on the front page. If you don't see it, your browser may be displaying a cached version.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:08 | 4452426 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

OK, I see it. Clearded cache.  No explanation.  Strange.  Motive?


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:10 | 4452457 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

It reads as scripted and as Lordes is part of the "organization", I have strong doubts. We like to think the musicians are rebels, but they are all part of the dialectic. Do you really think the overlords would allow free content in any medium? Have you not paid attention to the changes in the industry starting in 1950? 

They want you to have heroes, heroes they have created. 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:13 | 4452469 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"They want you to have heroes, heroes they have created."

True dat.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:36 | 4452565 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If the labels can make money off of an artist, they will allow (and encourage) all kinds of "anti-social" behavior. This has been demonstrated for many decades.

I really do think Lorde came out of left field. I think she's likely as "aware" as a 17 year old can be. She's just a kid, but a rather novel talent.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:02 | 4452427 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Citing Naomi Klein? Ugh.

Can we stop with the listening to the Tits and Ass?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:20 | 4452217 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

What did anyone think the Ukrainian government was going to allow a breakaway seperatist region to take root in Lviv without a fight? This is typical playbook stuff when power and control is threatened. You bring in the big guns when the little guns fail.

We shall see how effective moltov cocktails and improvised napalm bombs are this time around unless the EU/NATO counter with tanks and troops.


Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:44 | 4452314 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Given the Fedcoats thirst for blood and willingness to intervene anytime, anywhere, I would expect a formal announcement within 2 weeks.  I also expect the US already has boots on the ground.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:54 | 4452367 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"We shall see how effective moltov cocktails and improvised napalm bombs are this time around unless the EU/NATO counter with tanks and troops."


The Taliban is still in business.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:22 | 4452438 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The Ukrainians are not radical Muslims who are having a my supreme being's dick is bigger than yours cockfight here. Those type of people never stop until completely exterminated.... They can't ever be wrong on that point because if they might be...........

I wouldn't compare either side in this proxy tug of war to the Taliban regardless of the rhetoric of freedom fighter vs extremist/terrorist legitimate government vs. opposition because the fervor is not at that level.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 11:35 | 4452559 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Don't bother.  moneybots is a troll.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:01 | 4452649 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

RPG 7 bit different than gas in a bottle..

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:02 | 4452653 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The EU would require unanimity, and given that Germany's economy would be reduced to less than that of ancient Greece in a matter of minutes or hours, it's not likely to happen, but NATO is slightly less rational and perhaps they're smoking hopium and suffering delusions cock-surety in their new imperial glass edifice in Brussels (particularly if the Carlyle group's EPS projects are looking shitty, and there being so many windows to break and all...)

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 12:13 | 4452703 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It won't be the EU or NATO directly if organized troops and tanks are rolled in. The only country that fits the bill for that type of escalation is Moldova. It is right next door has a sizeable Ukrainian population along with a sizeable Moldovan population is southwestern Ukraine and is neither in NATO or the EU so it avoids all these tangling alliances problems while having legitimate skin in the game as cover.

Moldova is also aligned in the EU/NATO sphere of influence and want to become a 'made' member.

My chips are on Moldova being sucked in next if this goes totally south for the opposition movement in the Ukraine.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:21 | 4452222 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Probably more neo-con nutjobs trained at Guantamano.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:22 | 4452227 FriendlyStranger
FriendlyStranger's picture

How many wars and rumours of war do we still need? 

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:25 | 4452242 pan
pan's picture

Condos in Kiev!  BTFD!

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 10:32 | 4452274 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture

Civil War? Are you serious? Ukrainian police are killing filthy terrorists. About time!

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