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Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Is Finished
Just in case one was wondering for a reason not to take "Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange" too seriously, here is the latest news that has largely slammed the coffin shut on what was once the largest Bitcoin exchange. From MtGox:
Dear MtGox Customers,
Thank you for your patience this week while we are working on re-initiating bitcoin withdrawals. In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building in Shibuya. The move, combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress.
As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon as possible to keep everyone in the loop.
We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and continuous support.
Best regards,
MtGox Team
This is what a dying virtual currency exchange looks like...
In summary, all BTC withdrawals re-frozen for another week...blamed on a small group of protesters hanging around out front of the offices looking for their money... another day in bitcoin land...
As we noted when they last froze withdrawals:
Bitcoin is no longer in Phase 1 of its evolutionary cycle. I believe Phase 2 for Bitcoin began in earnest back in November 2013, when the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs held its first hearings on the topic. Those hearings made it clear that, at least for the moment, no significant roadblocks would be put in place to prevent people from transacting with one another using the crypto-currency. Phase 2 also saw the largest Bitcoin investment to-date, a $25 million infusion led by Silicon Valley VC firm Andreessen Horowitz, as well as acceptance by major U.S. retailers, with Overstock being the most significant. Bitcoin is becoming serious, and serious means serious accountability.
As a free market currency, the market will decide the products required to keep the Bitcoin protocol open and functioning to its highest potential. The disruption of Mt. Gox will be another test for Bitcoin. A test which certainly represents a psychological challenge, but probably not much more than that. Bitcoin will survive and come out of this stronger than it was before, just as it has done so many times in the past. However, I do not believe Mt. Gox will be so fortunate.
For Mt. Gox though, I think it’s pretty much game over.
As Max Pelham noted (Coinwatch),
"People will be leaving Mt. Gox either way, the trust isn't already very high, and with this now people are going to trust them even less,"
"I think Mt. Gox is going to lose relevance even more now, they're not very forthcoming in their public relations, their technical problems and their withdrawal problems aren't going away. Even if they fix it now, the withdrawal problem still remains with USD and Euro withdrawals."
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d-d-ouble post.
ALL THE MORE REASON THAT BITCOIN AND SATOSHI IS A FRAUD.... HOE.
No one knew "what" every other time "what" came, but it came nonetheless.
BTC survived the death of SilkRoad which was no small feat.
Dear May, Silkroad was a vendor, like Sears. Mt. Gox is an exchange, like Citibank.
The more you know...
Just as Mt Gox bites the dust, the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust has filed Amendment #2 of their S-1 preliminary prospectus with the SEC. Here is a sampling of the risk factors.
Currently, there is relatively small use of bitcoins in the retail and commercial marketplace in comparison to relatively large use by speculators, thus contributing to price volatility that could adversely affect an investment in the Shares.
If a malicious actor or botnet obtains control in excess of 50 percent of the processing power active on the Bitcoin Network, it is possible that such actor or botnet could manipulate the Blockchain in a manner that adversely affects an investment in the Shares or the ability of the Trust to operate.
As the number of bitcoins awarded for solving a block in the Blockchain decreases, the incentive for miners to continue to contribute processing power to the Bitcoin Network will transition from a set reward to transaction fees. Either the requirement from miners of higher transaction fees in exchange for recording transactions in the Blockchain or a software upgrade that automatically charges fees for all transactions may decrease demand for bitcoins and prevent the expansion of the Bitcoin Network to retail merchants and commercial businesses, resulting in a reduction in the price of bitcoins that could adversely impact an investment in the Shares.
To the extent that any miners cease to record transactions in solved blocks, transactions that do not include the payment of a transaction fee will not be recorded on the Blockchain until a block is solved by a miner who does not require the payment of transaction fees. Any widespread delays in the recording of transactions could result in a loss of confidence in the Bitcoin Network.
If a malicious actor or botnet (a volunteer or hacked collection of computers controlled by networked software coordinating the actions of the computers) obtains a majority of the processing power dedicated to mining on the Bitcoin Network, it may be able to alter the Blockchain on which the Bitcoin Network and all bitcoin transactions rely by constructing alternate blocks if it is able to solve for such blocks faster than the remainder of the miners on the Bitcoin Network can add valid blocks. In such alternate blocks, the malicious actor or botnet could control, exclude or modify the ordering of transactions, though it could not generate new bitcoins or transactions using such control. Using alternate blocks, the malicious actor could double spend its own bitcoins and prevent the confirmation of other users’ transactions for so long as it maintains control. To the extent that such malicious actor or botnet does not yield its majority control of the processing power on the Bitcoin Network or the Bitcoin community does not reject the fraudulent blocks as malicious, reversing any changes made to the Blockchain may not be possible.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514058712/d56232...
I noticed the Fonestar Brigade ignored this particular comment.
Oh, that's right, we're all just a bunch of barking seals here to question anything concerning BTC.
Right, because failing to respond to something for thirty minutes is some sort of admission of failure.
So what? Those are mostly legitimate concerns (botnets actually can't mine significant abounts of bitcoin though--CPU and GPU mining has been long eclipsed by dedicated chip mining, and those things don't have user interfaces to allow people to screw up the security).
Gold and silver can be stolen or manipulated too. They can also be mined in great quantity with new technologies (asteroid mining is coming sooner than most people think) That doesn't mean you shouldn't own them.
Yea but it takes A LOT more than a $500 ASIC machine to get gold out of the ground in any great quantity. There hasn't been much gold mined in the history of man. There have been about 3.75 Olympic size swimming pools that has ever been mined. And yes asteroid mining is further off than you think. That is about 15 - 20 years down the road. If the democrats stay in office then it's 150 years down the road.
15-20 years away is a LOT closer than most people think. And I think it is likely to happen even sooner than that, though as you say, politics may well interfere.
Hatching yet another get-rich-quick scheme, tmosley?
You clearly know very little about the logistics and current technology of space travel. Absent some fundamental new developments in space propulsion, particularly regarding the necessary technology of boosting massive payloads both to AND from orbit, the commercial and practical utilization of asteriodal metals is an indefinitely far-away dream, the claims of some pump-and-dump boosters notwithstanding.
It's only close if you are part of the population that has lived at least 30 years already.
LOL- you really think MtGox is a one-off? Silly rabbit.....
So buy the Bitcoins on Mt. Gox When it goes belly up redeem your "coins" and sell them for $500 on a different exchange. I said before it would get hacked and people were telling me IT'S NOT POSSIBLE and almost calling me stupid and telling me to shut up. These are those cases where I enjoy being right. The virtual currency will not survive. It's a nice experiment but there is no value behind it (not that there is much behind the fiat USD either) and it won't last. None of them will last.
Indeed. Look, aside from trading funny or witty quips (to play "Ego games"), I think that the core of the debate is something like this:
1. TD is right that MtGox is no longer THE exchange, and may not survive as an exchange at all.
2. If MtGox does survive, it will be just another player, left to actually have to "work" to regain market share. No more "easy money".
3. The Nietsche adage of "What does not kill you, only makes you stronger" still holds true and applies not only to Bitcoin, but to all CCs (Crypto-Currencies). Other exchanges are more robust and getting more so with time. The CC Ecosystem has taken the MtGox blow, is adapting and evolving accordingly.
4. Having mortally hurt the prime exchange (US-based MtGox), Fed & Friends (NSA and its black hat group of hackers) will shift their sights on the next tallest pole in the CC tent. The strategy is clear: To bring down the tent by going after one tent-pole after another, until the market loses faith in CCs altogether or enough to make it a proverbial Tulip Craze phenomenon. Or so their theory goes.
Here is my personal take on another point:
A. The Fed's PR job is made easier by an unlikely 'ally', who is (ironically enough) officially its "mortal and eternal enemy": A Subset of Goldbugs, that I shall call 'GoldHounds'. Whereas many goldbugs/goldfans are clever and reasonable enough to realize that CCs are their 'friend' insofar both are enemies of fiat currencies from CBs, GoldHounds are SO extreme in their views, that they are downright 'rabid'. They treat everyone as an enemy, if they do not worship at the altar of gold. When they line up with the Fed/TPTB and start taking potshots at Bitcoin and other CCs, they become a defacto "friend of Fed". Alas this group of "financial extremists" is SO stubborn and inflexible, so fanatical, that they won't even consider or accept their unintentional role in aiding the Fed/TPTB to fight the CC. This is both unnecessary and sad, but such is the way of extremist and zealot psyches -- no matter what "fait" of "flag of convenience" they fly.
B. I accept the possibility that some Fed Trolls are criticizing Bitcoin under the guise of being GoldHounds. IOW, the Gold community has temporarily been 'infiltrated' by "FedTrolls.gov", since they love to create FUD wherever they "play". FUD is their #1 tool and weapon of choice. Only the truly lucid and logical minds can resist and counter-attack them, w/o also attacking its own side (CCs).
True libertarians/Libertarians will use a mix of variables from [1], as they recognize that they all have a time and place for their use. Even if they favor some variables more than others, they have no qualms about the use or the success of the other variables -- who are ALL "fighting Club Fed". True libertarians/Libertarians will cheer for the success of any of the variables in [1] -- unless they are either mentally handicapped, or... "they have a dog in the fight".
C. As I have said numerous times before (more so than anyone else here)...
"Bitcoin and other CCs are part of the solution in fighting the cartels of fiat currencies", because:
[1] Parallel Economy = Self-regulated = Barter + Cash + PM + CC = Decentralized, self-regulating with voluntary standards (evolving after a messy Infancy)
[2] Official Economy = Central Control by CBs = fiat everything = fiat (bonds + currency + derivatives) = Pyramid Scheme By, For, Of the Elite/Oligarchs = Economic Bondage, Economic Totalitarianism
I hope this provides some clarity and allows people to focus their arguments on the REAL enemy. And those boys & girls who just "gotta", may now resume their trading of funny or witty quips (to play "Ego games"). :-)
That doesn't count as bearish. I'm waiting for you to declare Bitcoin and all Virtual Currencies a bad idea and that those considering BTC should intead put their money in more gold or silver. I'm looking for total capitulation.
fonestar did pick up some more Maples recently but still thinks Bitcoin and Litecoin will outperform. Go ahead and quote fonestar, he's been right so far.
Fonestar, you told me to buy BTC at 1100 and i did, now your saying 400-500 wtf. I trusted you man
fonestar did say that. Where fonestar actually buys is known to fonestar. Just hold and you'll be okay.
Word for the day: illeism, referring to oneself in the third person. There seem to be various reasons for this, ranging from humility to affectation to some sort of psychological dissociation, and so on. Place your bets.
As long as you don't compile an publicise lists of "your greatests comments on ZH" as a certain other poster who shall remain nameless used to do, I don't really care.
He thinks he Richard Nixon... or Queen Elizabeth.
Hmmm I wonder what Bob Dole would have to say about that...?
"Just hold and you'll be okay."
Like pets.com?
Please tell fonestar more fascinating historical quips about tulips and pets.com! Did you also graduate from Chris Duane's liberty academy or whatever?
LOL, Chris Duane, I fucking hate to admit it but that is the first [semi] intelligent thing I have EVER seen you post. So due to my code of honor I was forced to give you your first up arrow [from me] for that zinger. I guess the old saying is true that a broken calendar is right once ever other cycle [or 5,122 yrs]
Ah, silly Chris and his quixotic online jihad against Bitcoin.
In the early 80's there was a chain letter going around like those old ones from the 40s and 50s where you sent some small item to the person whose name was on the top of the list, put your name on the bottom of the list and sent it on. In the case of this one, you sent a small amount of money (cash) to the person whose name was on the top of the list and put your name on the bottom. The person in the level above you sold you your space at the bottom of the list and you tried to sell it on. Some people made a lot of money. You'll recognize this as a pyramid scheme. I bring this up, because being young and foolish, I bought into this right at the end, and then tried to sell a place to my brother-in-law. He got a piece of paper and put his name on the top. He asked me why he should buy a spot on my list when he could just start his own. I had paid for my place with a check and cancelled payment the next morning, so I got out unscathed. Most didn't.
More like gold and silver, friend.
You really need to learn the differences between asset classes before you invest in ANYTHING, by the way.
Exactly! Just HOLD he says. LOL. Don't use it for its intendend purpose. HOLD IT. That should really increase its value. You hold gold because it is a store of wealth. I would never hold a bunch of 1's and 0's.
Can you go and spend gold coins at 7-11? Why are you holding them then?
You hold gold because it is a store of wealth. Why are you holding bitcoin?
Because it's condensed technology, labor, and intellectual property. And a new internet payment protocol. And a register of deeds. Oh and a store of value. Just those pesky things.
Bitcoin has only been around a few years and has been very volatile. How is that a store of value? You bitcoiners refuse to see reality.
$0 - $500 in five years doesn't seem like volatility to fonestar. Seems more like massive profits.
I don't get it Fonestar. You preach to the heavens and all that will listen about the bitcoin revolution and the destruction of the fed. In your next breath, you are telling people to speculate on Bitcoin and short the dollar.
You tell everyone to buy bitcoin even while it has lost 50% of its vaue. You made it clear that you will hold bitcoin. I am assuming that you are just waiting for profits.
Again, where did Bitcoin lose 50% of its value?
It was over $1000. Now its $500-600. Can I send you a calculator?
Clearly, your calculator doesn't do exponents so don't bother. fonestar has one that does.
would you just fuck off already
Its becoming a chore to junk you continuously
Not happening.
You hold gold because it is a store of wealth. Why are you holding bitcoin?
Because Bitcoin is a great way to short the dollar and Bitcoin beats physical gold for transactional utility hands down.
Yeah, it lost 50% of its value and it is a great way to short the dollar. Bitcoin is good for quick transactions, but these are not reasons to hold it ever.
When did it lose 50% of its value? Can fonestar send you a free calendar?
It was over $1000. Now its $500-600. Can I send you a calculator?
fonestar bought most of his Bitcoins < $50. What type of calculator is this?
Bitcoin isn't about you Fonestar. It isn't about the few people who "mined" the easy coins or the few people who bought <$50. It is about the people who may potentially adopt bitcoin. People like you are making it very difficult for people to buy into it. You words are telling me that you see bitcoin as a get rich quick scheme. So much for your bitcoin revolution.
Again, fonestar isn't here to get you to buy Bitcoins. Doesn't care either what they late adopters do.
Why are you here and why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person in every comment?
Why are you here and why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person in every comment?
The most wonderful thing about fonestars is he's the only one.
True moron, and cosmic waste of time.
There is one born every minute. Billions of SUCKERS.
Serious question. Can what happened to mtgox happen to all exchanges? If so, I would never put a penny into it.
BINGO! If you think it can't you don't understand the nature of hacking and cracking. Never mind that the people who took MtGox down are still out there and we don't know who they are. It could be the Russians, Chinese, Americans or all of them put together. They all have something to lose if the dollar is devalued or supplanted by something they can't control.
It's a good thing there is only one of you. The world can not take that many dishonest thieves at one time.
Good for you, but what price have you been hyping bitcoin at?
Kind of miss the old gold and silver trolls compared to this spectacular assclown.
William the Bastard, abiggs, Spaulding Smailes, Goldenmiddlefinger, bob dabolina, etc...
You miss them so much you emulate them.
I wonder if it would be racist to call that "Israel Syndrome"?
LOL, yeah, sure I do.
I've been a consistent promoter and defender on PM's for 15 to 20 years (buy and hold, cost average in). Never told anyone to go "all in" on gold or silver at all. BTC is potential pile of shit in my estimation (huge counter party risk). Sorry you have trouble getting that through your thick head.
OK, I have agreed with a lot of your assertions on this thread, Stonefart, but gold is known worldwide to people with IQs from 50-250 as money. I would bet that less than 1% of the people on this earth have ever heard of BiteCoin. Gold's transactional ability far exceeds BiteCoin on the street.
Just saying, keep it real.
Fonstar, bitcoin is a service. A VERY difficult and confusing to use service. In its current form, it will never be adopted by a significant number of people. There is no reason to expect bitcoin to increase in value except if speculators throw a bunch of money at it again. Is that what you are hoping for? So much for your bitcoin revolution you snake oil salesman.
What is so confusing about it? fonestar still remembers opening up QT client for the first time, lights going off in his head "this is going to big... oh yeah!"
Several times, right when I was about to get a boner, I thought the same thing. Then...like Bitcoin...perpetual disappointment.
Shh, Foney is in full-panic mode, don't confuse him with rational facts.....
It's really not that hard. You download a wallet utility and make wallets. You buy bitcoins and put them in the wallets.
It's so easy, the Etrade baby could do it, if he had any bennybux left after losing everything in the stock market.
It's so easy that only people whom use a computer daily for work can use it, which is a minority of the population.
I am pretty sure the Indian guy behind the counter would take them.
At last check, the majority of 7-11's here in the northeast are owned and operated by indians and asians so i bet i actually could spend gold coins there
Can you go and spend gold coins at 7-11? Why are you holding them then?
I can Fonestar. It would be rather stupid but they are a Legal Tender and they do have a Face Value.
A One Tenth Ounce American Eagle is Ten US Dollars. It can never be less than Ten Dollars.
Does a Bitcon have a US Dollar Face Value, a value guaranteed never to be worth less? (Rhetorical)
Have you ever walked into a Sandwich Shop and bought a $5.00 Meal for a US Silver Quarter? I HAVE.
My merchants do not accept Bitcon. I have not ever been able to do that once with a Bitcon. It looks as if I never will.
depends what I want but it will probably be silver, and soon.
For now they take dollars but that won't last.
Never will the day come when 7-11 takes bitcoin.
Oh but you do hold 1's and 0's silly. You have no stocks, online bank account, 401k, IRA???? If you have no 1's and 0's I feel sorry for you.
I am being nitpicky, but you can request delivery of the actual (paper) stocks. However, feeling "sorry" for those without 1 and 0s leaves those holding real estate, PMs, equipment, commodities, vehicles, etc. Feel sorry for them?
I have gold, cash & silver in hand.
The trading account is a write-off unless the market moves a certain way & the bank is solvent the day I want to get tangibles for the claims stored there. i consider it likely it all goes to zero but the bets were low-cost for me to enter so I did it. They are not money. They are bets only. No different than lotto tickets.
no IRA, 401k, as in Canada it's RRSP but no to that as well.
1's & 0's are a trick, a trap, and you should feel sorry for those IN THEM, not avoiding them. Those of us smart enough to avoid them CAN NOT be robbed at the push of a button -everyone else will be.
Look at the bright side, you still have your bits that you can eat... NOT!
The Good News: Since you bought Bitcoin on his recommendation, Fonestar will gladly reimburse you for your Bitcoin losses, plus pay you an additional 10% for your trouble.
The Bad News: Your reimbursement will be paid in S&H Green Stamps.
Virtual currencies are as old as currency itself. People will continue to think of ways to make virtual currencies as long as there are humans (or other intelligent species).
dup from below: i hope you had enough sense and foresight to dump (for a nice profit when btc was over $1100) your btc on the zh dummies here who fell for your btc 'enthusiasm' - also known as pump.
Anyone that followed the run-up from $200 to $1100 knew it was a classic trap, to entice people. And sure enough, about 80% of the way through the rally the media jumped on board. A dead giveaway that we were looking at a 'distribution' phase. I.E. you hoard BTC that were bought between >$100 and $700, and then sell them bit by bit to newcomers to the scheme, for $800+, of course.
Bitcoin = Pets.com circa 2014
Pets.com was a company with stocks. Bitcoin is a currency. Are you high?
Dogecoin is a currency as well... Your point?
Dogecoin is a massively successful currency. The above post was trying to confuse currencies with stocks. How is that not clear?
Cool, when will I be able to buy something with my huge stack of Dogecoins? Like food or gas? Not interested in drugs or shit from Overstock.com. Thanks.
There will be lots of places in the future. It doesn't matter that idiots in the present lack vision.
Oh, OK. So BTC's profitability is strongly correlated with being able to find a 'Greater Fool'?
You sound like a wannabe dictator.
When 100,000 other retailers start taking crypto, I'm sure you will remain disinterested.
Rather, you will continue to use dollars, and support Satan's work on earth.
Thanks. You are very helpful.
Retailers will only take bitcoin if they can convert to dollars. So please tell me, assuming I'm an average joe, why bother going through all the trouble of getting bitcoins and buying something with them?
You eliminate the possiblity of identity theft, have lower transaction fees, and cut the banks out of the equation.
They will stop trading them for dollars when their vendors start taking bitcoins.
Deleted
You realize 5 years ago everyone was against SDR's. Here you are promoting the living version of it...
100,000 retailers are going to take my Dogecoin? Much wow. I'm going all-in
They'll be retailing fresh skittles from the unicorn-poop cornucopia.
FRNs are currency too... but if given the choice I'll take gold or silver eagles every time...
It's about as much a currency as the pile of dog crap in my yard. It's a mathematical formula, an algorithm created by some geek (or group, who really knows?) named Satoshi Nakamoto. It has the illusion of being currency only because a very small segment of people use it as such. A few years ago an artist named Thomas Kinkade started mass producing his paintings. His paintings which were a bit pricey early on can be found on eBay now for a fraction of the original price. Bitcoin will go that way just like the Pet Rock and Beanie Babies. And yeah, it's like pets.com in that it's failure will be due to flawed fundamentals. In the end it's all about mathematics. You can pretend to defy the laws of nature for only so long.
LOL- Foney, dude.... What day- EXACTLY- do you think we're all going to "see the light"? Will it be your 10,000th desperate plea about BitCoin on ZH?
Seriously, Foney- go get a JOB, spend less time trying to pump up the value of your three coins- the dream is over, you're gonna have to go work for a living.
The Winklevi thank you for your time and money- as with any great Ponzi, the early and big players make out, leaving the dupes babbling in their wake.....
This is just getting sad, Foney...
Not so fast, snakeoil-man!
By the POWER OF SATOSHI, all bitcoins are EQUAL.
therefore when MtGox bitcoins are lower than 200, SO ARE THEY ALL.
What the Fuck!?!?!?!
How can a Virtual Currency Just Disappear into the Ether, no Different than One's Thoughts?
How can a Virtual Currency Just Disappear into the Ether, no Different than One's Thoughts?
Kind of like common sense, huh?
It's called Fractional Reserve Banking. Gox were doing what the banks have been doing for 400 years.
As bitcoin cannot be printed out of thin air, once there was a run Gox couldn't print its way out of trouble.
Coming to the Fiat Central Banking System soon enough...
Skin, now that is an interesting point, and it occured to me that this situation actually reveales the strength of BTC. Just like bail-ins, seen as bad, actually reveal a strong banking system, as long as they are used only on un-insured deposits. When an institution goes belly-up, it is supposed to take it's investors down with it.
Exactly donsluck!
There can be no fraud with the protocol, only the exchanges.
There are no bankster bailouts in crypto
No, your thoughts can't disappear, the NSA has them on tape backup.
pass the buck
not the fucks
and so wisdom is received
from knucks!
About time we were reminded that it is better to hold physical Magic: The Gathering cards.
One word:
Black Lotus
I bought my first one when they were at $80. The best return so far has been Tarmogoyf though. $5->$120 in a few short years.
LEEEEEeeeeeroyyyyyyy JJJJJJENkinzzzzzzzz
the Fonestar of MtG
FED no like competition. Will make sure Bitcoin least trusted transaction medium on earth.
Also: US Gov. now one of the largest holders of said Bitcoin due to previous arrest of certain individual.
Above is Dangerous combination.
Growl.
I once met up with a bear camping.
He knocked down my tent.
There was a latern in the middle of our campsite.
He was about 2 feet away.
His breath was misty.
I played dead like bitcoin.
So how much money was lost in aggregate?
None.
There was some lost bitcoin though.
People spend cash on trying to capture these coins though, or they buy them outright.
Isn't the exchange down? Or at least exchanging bitcoins for cheap?
So there was money lost. How much?
/s, thought it was obvious.
Just getting phoneystar's goat.If he has finished buggering it.
The best part of BTC is following the chatbox over on BTC-E. I can tell you we are not at capitulation yet. Quite a lot of bitcoinerds talking about buying now 'before the price returns to normal'. Yeah, they are of the opinion that $1000 is now the normal price, and anything less is a deal. But what I love most is their arguments for buying BTC!
Get this, they will mention the plight of the USD! And NOT mention GOLD! But mention BTC!
That, IMO, is very telling.
They completely underestimate how far desperate governments will go to keep the party going. Perhaps crypocurrencies are the future. But, they are not out of the forest yet. Long way from it. Between now and then, it's just a trade... like everything else.
Yes.
Well all is not a total loss; you can at least plant your BiteCons in the ground, and up will grow a pretty tulip...what's that? You can't even do that? LOL, what a bunch of dumasses!
YEAH. FUCK YEAH. I gots some bits on my hard drive and can buy overstock.com cheap shit. Yeah, f you Obama. I win.
fonestar's first purchase off Overstock was a CRKT M16 Tanto in AUS8. Hardly what I would call "cheap shit". Purchased with Bitcoin.
A discontinued $100 knife? You go boy!
It's OK they have your name and address now. Next they will supply it to the IRS and then they will charge you with the appropriate capital gains tax. LOL Good luck with that.
There is no Capital Gain for buying something at a discount. What are you writing about?
Shit. I guess that the IRS needs to go after everyone who uses a God Damned Coupon.
Yeah. Right. The IRS needs to garner all of those Club Card Records from the Grocery Stores and Back Tax, with penalties, everyone who uses a Club Card....for a "Capital Gain"
In their fucking wildest dreams...
Now if he sold what he bought...at a profit...then there would be a Capital Gain. It is only the Gain that is taxable....Not the total Price.
This reminds me about another stupid analysis by Simon Black on Bonds today. He claims that If you Bought a Bond at 4% and the Inflation Rate were 3% that a Capital Gain Tax of 25% would wipe out any profits. While I agree that Bonds are a Piss Poor Buy...THAT IS NOT TRUE. The Tax would be Levied on the 1% PROFIT. 25% of that would be paid in taxes. Thus you net 75 Basis Points.
But what can you expect from the Math Challenged?
LMAO. I am not a Bitcon proponent. But man...You are grasping at straws there buddy. What in the hell drugs are you on?
So if you buy a Bitcoin for $0.50 and you sell it for (spend) $500.00 there is not capital gain or profit? And you are calling me stupid? Better check your meds. Looks like someone is selling you the cheap stuff.
BitShit was finished when it started....
there are only 2 forms of real money....PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER.......PERIOD
disclaimer - please leave it alone Fonestar........
Nobody gives a shit about MtGox moron (save the drool squad on Zerohedge).
man i asked u to leave it alone...
yeah, ok - i be the moron...
now leave it alone.... and i upticked u out of compassion...
Silver and Gold = 5000 years of history.............................
...and the use of currency goes back thousands of years too. Because currencies fail doesn't mean they're useless in the meantime... unless of course you plan on living to the ripe old age of 5,000 years.
fonestar, at least you admitted that paper currencies fail. Of course, they ALWAYS fail. The PMs have NEVER failed. Currencies fail so often that it is prudent, especially in times like these, to hold a portion of your wealth outside of currencies. By the way, we should all remember that BTC is a currency.
"Fiat currencies fail, so we must keep using this fiat currency rather than using something that can't be printed arbitrarily."
Sounds about par for the course for the peanut gallery here.
Hey tmosley, where did you get that quote? It is not from the comment you are responding to, so what's the deal? You're just a garden variety troll?
How does I paraphrase?
lolidunno
I guess that means that you will stop being a deceitful moron right after quoting and paraphrasing have the same definition......as in never. Besides, you did not "paraphrase" you twisted the commentor's words into a lie of your own making. And that makes you a big fat liar! No news there I guess.
I am starting to get the feeling that tmosley and the former ZH poster "Trav777" were inadvertently combined, through a Star Trek transporter accident (probably involving the presence of the metal silver), into one wildly insufferable and arrogant prick.
Trav.
Ha.
Maybe Trav is the real Satoshi?
How ya been?
Money is whatever buyers and sellers are willing to exchange for shit for brains...
name calling is a sign of intellectual weakness and cowardice...
especailly when its on a platform where getting your ass slapped or shot is removed from the equation...
just pass me by or challenge 5000 years of history with a rebuttal sir...
I have no rebutal to your assertion that Gold and Silver are money and have been for 5000 years.
90% of my wealth is in gold and silver.
But crypto offers something different. It has far more utility than physical gold and silver as a means of exchange.
So the way I see it, crypto will be used as the means of exchange, with users then being free to store wealth in PM's. Hopefully we will also have electronic gold and silver in the future. Free market competition can only be good for everyone.
Just dump fiat
Gold and silver are a store of value. If bitcoin held it's value (was stable) and could be reliably exchanged then it would offer something of value. But to date it's like a hot potatoe. As soon as you get it the smartest thing you can do with it is get rid of it.
Cryptocurrency gives me unprecedented chances to lose all my money with no delivery of any goods, to be spied upon at all times for all transactions, and to risk volatility so huge I could lose 90% of input cost to output spending power.
It's amazing. In fact, it's AMAZEBALLz with a side-dish of awesomesauce.
name calling is a sign of fonestar.
I just have to admire your determination and positive attitude fonestar, even though you are totally full of shit.
Finally something I can agree with you on.
Normalcy bias. Cowrie shells were used for longer and and over a greater geographic area than PMs. I own gold, silver, and bitcoin, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the possibility that any of them could lose substantial value.
Incorrect: it's experience-bias, knowing that a form of money evolved, later, not earlier, meeting proper needs of civilization.
Sea-shells have little intrinsic value. They could be decorations or could be smashed to dust to add to soil for calcium enrichment, perhaps a couple of other things.
Silver & gold have far, far more uses & rarity is a factor in total value of all gold therefore of each unit.
Also sea-shells are so unique you can't get matching weights & patterns, composition, of each, whereas with gold refining you can get identical units.
This is critical, not a "minor" detail.
No, that's currency. MONEY is whatever has intrinsic value AND acts as currency or a store of wealth - ideally both at the same time.
Nonsense. Anthropologists have proven that people had money before there was silver and gold.
ok man, ok...
try paying your bills with sticks and stones...
hey, i guess cave men did it...
thanks for the history lesson though....peace
Yes, but pretty rocks and shells just didn't work out in the long run like gold and silver have.