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Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Is Finished
Just in case one was wondering for a reason not to take "Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange" too seriously, here is the latest news that has largely slammed the coffin shut on what was once the largest Bitcoin exchange. From MtGox:
Dear MtGox Customers,
Thank you for your patience this week while we are working on re-initiating bitcoin withdrawals. In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building in Shibuya. The move, combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress.
As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon as possible to keep everyone in the loop.
We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and continuous support.
Best regards,
MtGox Team
This is what a dying virtual currency exchange looks like...
In summary, all BTC withdrawals re-frozen for another week...blamed on a small group of protesters hanging around out front of the offices looking for their money... another day in bitcoin land...
As we noted when they last froze withdrawals:
Bitcoin is no longer in Phase 1 of its evolutionary cycle. I believe Phase 2 for Bitcoin began in earnest back in November 2013, when the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs held its first hearings on the topic. Those hearings made it clear that, at least for the moment, no significant roadblocks would be put in place to prevent people from transacting with one another using the crypto-currency. Phase 2 also saw the largest Bitcoin investment to-date, a $25 million infusion led by Silicon Valley VC firm Andreessen Horowitz, as well as acceptance by major U.S. retailers, with Overstock being the most significant. Bitcoin is becoming serious, and serious means serious accountability.
As a free market currency, the market will decide the products required to keep the Bitcoin protocol open and functioning to its highest potential. The disruption of Mt. Gox will be another test for Bitcoin. A test which certainly represents a psychological challenge, but probably not much more than that. Bitcoin will survive and come out of this stronger than it was before, just as it has done so many times in the past. However, I do not believe Mt. Gox will be so fortunate.
For Mt. Gox though, I think it’s pretty much game over.
As Max Pelham noted (Coinwatch),
"People will be leaving Mt. Gox either way, the trust isn't already very high, and with this now people are going to trust them even less,"
"I think Mt. Gox is going to lose relevance even more now, they're not very forthcoming in their public relations, their technical problems and their withdrawal problems aren't going away. Even if they fix it now, the withdrawal problem still remains with USD and Euro withdrawals."
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Hides, pelts, fur, tobacco, food, tools etc.
WELL... some medicines are very powerful per mg & don't expire for a long time, or ever if kept properly
They could pass as money in pill form having both intrinsic value & ease of storage & handling, depending.
Im sure if Boris were here he would say:
fone sex star love bitcoin, but bitcoin no love fone sex star
Bitcoin love fonestar long time.
Bitcoin love fonestar long time.
Hope you have happy ending....
Really. I would love to see some form of competing currency being successful. Anything that jabs it up the Feds ass is ok by me.
"Really. I would love to see some form of competing currency being successful. Anything that jabs it up the Feds ass is ok by me."
Same here, but that is just not going to happen any time soon. After the revolution, war, or whatever, maybe.
" Bitcoin love fonestar long time."
That was great, I said something like this to you just the other day only I worded it: "Bitcoin love you long time" because that is what prostitutes said to GI's back in Nam. Prostitutes don't love you, they just take your money for a happy ending.
I actually hope you know the difference between rented love and the real thing FS, because I believe you have fallen in love with a whore.
i hope you had enough sense to dump (for a nice profit when btc was over $1100) your btc on the zh dummies here who fell for your 'enthusiasm' for btc - also known as pump.
for the next step, you should introduce the 'averaging' rationalization. you know, like this: if you bought at $1100, buy more at $500 because your total cost will be $(make up your # here) and you will make that much more when btc goes to the moon.
But if you sold just a few at $1100 after buying at $140, your average cost goes down in a much nicer way ... and your national fiat balance and oz's of Gold got healthy too ... :-)
mtgox leads the way and other exchanges follow... this was on the way up and will be on the way down...
LOOK AT THAT CHART. Let it burn into your memory.
As I have been writing that IN ANY MARKET...ANY MARKET...Exponential growth leads to an Exponential Collapse.
You must understand this concept. This is the most important concept and lesson which I can teach.
It crosses all disciplines of study. In any Adiabatic System Exponential Growth leads to Exponential Collapse.
It happened with Bitcon.
It will happen to the United States Dollar.
This chart is prescient of the future for all Fiat Currencies.
Understand it.
Be prepared.
All of these experienced exponential growth and haven't collapsed (yet). Time will tell if Bitcoin is a brief experiment or if it follows an S-Curve.
What a clown.
Mtgox was a cornerstone in the bitcoin pyramid scheme. Now we wait for the rest of it to topple. Fonestar, do you have any reason to believe bitcoin will actually be USED by a major portion of the population or are you just waiting for it to go to 6 figures for no reason whatsoever?
Only someone like fonestar could see the virtue in a currency losing 50% of its value in less than 30 days. But hey, in his model of the financial universe the world revolves around him and screw the rest of you. You all are just bit players in his perverted passion play.
I doubt fonestar is really as utterly stupid as he sometimes seems. It is far more likely that, like most humans, he has a very, very hard time admitting when he is wrong. It is a universal problem. I have been wrong so many times, I no longer have that problem. Practice makes perfect fonestar, keep trying and you will get there too.
LOL, The only people who LOVE bitcoin are the pump and dump experts who bought it for $0.10 and sold it for $1000. There is one born every second.
It's bit finger time in Shibuya...
(scared to ask why she has a box of fingers)
Because she likes to get fingered.
These Johns no pay after sucki fucki! I think you pay, yes?
I just signed up for an account on the site as I wanted to see if I could buy some bitcoin for $135. They want more documentation than my bank or broker ask for opening an account. Plus they say that it would take a week or two to verify my credentials.
If you like your bitcoin you can keep your bitcoin. The average family will save 30-40% on bitcoins. If you cant afford the price we will have a subsidy to help low income buyers.
it's all free with mah bee tee cee?
Though I do have some major questions about the validity of bitcoin, I think it certainly has some good points. What was off when I was on here arguing with Fonestar and the like was that it was way over valued when over 1000 bucks considering the its short track record and so many unanswered questions. It was nearly the market cap of all the investable silver at one point. Hey look where we are now, less than half, but it still isn’t where it needs to be considering the immense risk people are taking when buying in. No the Fonestar types can act like this is no big deal and it will turn around any day, but I have even more questions about that now. I talked about the unforeseen problems with bitcoin, here is a great example. No the exchange does not=Bitcoin, but this is something I never even thought of as being an issue. What about all of the other unknowns. Granted some of you geniuses may not have any reservation with Bitcoin because you are all knowing, but at even current prices, for me, it is still not worth the risk.
Plain and simple. Bitcoin is a mania.....a passing fad.....a little like Pet Rocks or Cabbage Patch dolls. At least mother nature and humans actually labored at making those things.
Keyword......" L A B O R E D ". Bitcoin is made by a calculator. A handcrafted fluted stemware containing a rare French wine will always.....either in their seperate pieces or together will be worth more than a mass produced Chinese made plastic cup full of Mad Dog 20/20.
What you have here are narcissistic, techno-geeks looking to rebel against a system and a world that cannot be defeated, who are trying to pass off digital wampum amongst themselves and hopefully bamboozling the billions of ignorant sheeple out there looking for the next, great thing in high rate return investment vehicles.
Aside from the unique way it is conjured up.....(actually not that unique if you ask Janet Yellen)......Bit-tards are the newest, faddiest version of the money changers. And as such....they should be despised and shunned.
But.....that's already happening. As it will always happen to currency not directly tied and measured to the value of actual human labor and real mother natured designed natural commodities.
Bit-Tulip mania. Get 'em while they are hot.....until they're not.
LOL
That's exactly what Krugman said about the interwebz.
I urge you to try out crypto. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad...
"I urge you to try out crypto. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad....." sez Skin 666
"I urge you to try out fiat credit notes. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad."
sez Chairman of the Federal Reserve
"I urge you to try out try out credit cards. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad."
sez Jamie Dimon
"I urge you to try out Fannie Mae backed loans. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad."
sez CEO of Fannie Mae
"I urge you to try out Credit Default Swaps. When you see how easy it is to use and pay for stuff, you will realise that this is no fad."
sez Blythe Masters
One of these comments is not like the others. I'm just having a hard time telling which one. Maybe someone out there can give it a crack.
Meh, Bitcoin is a ledger. As long as the participants agree to the parameters it doesn't really matter if they use match sticks, shiny rocks or digital entries. In fact it is none of your business what they use if you are not involved in their transaction.
are you nuts? If I have enough BTC to pay for gas yesterday and today it's 80% lower than it was yesterday, it's not easy to pay for stuff - it's DESTROYED.
You can't do math. 80% losses are real. It means you can't spend the imaginary value because sure as fuck, no one else thinks it's worth what it was the day before.
eTulips!
If you like your btc you can keep your btc. The average family will save 30-40%. If you cannot afford to purchase one there will be a subsidy. Btc are A human-rite.
I thought by all your shouting btc was not able to be manipulated. Well the bankers have all the control over btc. Yes you will cry its the exchange. What the hell do you call an institution that you deposit currency in and expect to withdraw currency when you want. Uuummmm it will come to me wait wait. Oh yeah a BANK. Yes water carriers the exchanges are just banks. And why is Mt having a bank holiday? Exactly the same reason any bank does. Is controlling is demise. Long live the electronic banking industry.
The death of MtGox is the best thing that could happen to Bitcoin at the moment. This is the third time since I've been paying attention that they've caused problems; better that they leave the scene and we remain with more reliable exchanges.
pay no attention to the other failed exchanges behind the curtain
Booom! Down goes Frazier!
Aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd it's gone..........
aaaaand what? Ya, it's GONE!
Why anybody would want to exchange their virtual currency for fiat currency is beyond me.
They're "taking profits". What they're taking profits in is a question that eludes them.
Because it only loses (currently) only 3% of it's value annually and it can buy you a tank of gas!
Because it only loses (currently) 3% of it's value annually and it can buy you a tank of gas!
Granted, fiat sucks, but the last time I attempted to make a withdrawl from my bank, guess what? I got my fiat with no problems, charges, or funny business. Then I went and spent it wherever I wanted for whatever I wanted. Legal or otherwise. That's why.
Since this is an article about BitCoin, I'd like to share some relevant thoughts. While I am generally opposed to Fonestar's philosophy and specifically on matters of human commercial interactions, I admit I have been known on ocassion to Up-Vote some of his more truthful and jovial comments. Sadly however, most of the time I find myself robotically scrolling through the comment section obsessively Down-Voting every one of his entries, for legitimate reasons of course, but mostly out of spite, for him having put me in the position to have to waste my time like that. Hey, but deep down I'm sure he's a well-meaning fellow and not afraid to speak his mind. ZH just wouldn't be the same without our beloved Fonestar. Any others with similar thoughts on BitCoin?
Deleted.
+1 brotha ... you actually said a few things I have been thinking. Agree or not, I can dig people who speak their mind, whether or not I agree. And yes, he gets plenty of down votes from me for being an outright ass sometimes.
CANDYMAN-CANDYMAN-CANDYMAN?
Fone B Star Bitnobee - you're our only hope!
Shitcoin!!!! Drug and weapons dealers will have to go somewhere else now.
Bitcoin is great for narco-trafficking and weapons deals!
Let's say fonestar gave you a briefcase filled with a cool $1 million and said, "need this in Tehran tomorrow". What would you do?
And that's a good thing?
And that's a good thing?
No it's a great thing!
Depends on how much Fed cock you have in your mouth at any given minute.
If you have bitcoin you have double-barrel cocksucking: one from the Fed, one from the Treasury. Bitcoin = loves the Fed cock
No one wanted bitcoin except to get lots of dollars, thus proving my point. The ponzi is over. Epic fail
Phone the FBI
and tell them you just gave me half a million dollars for some narcotics deal with Iran.
.gov collaborator?
Idiot/scammer collaborator?
Just an idiot?
Australian, Oliver North proved that, with the right connections, drug/arms deals with our enemy (Iran at the time) is perfectly fine.
North was working for? G.W.
No. GHW Bush, Dubyah's father.
i would take the money and you'd never see me again
All your pumping and chearleading here... all a complete waste of effort.
Hide in Texas somewhere.
Have the CIA fly it in, what do you think?
Fedex! At least it would not lose HALF it's value on the trip over.
Fedex! At least it would not lose HALF it's value on the trip over.
Thank fuck for that!
Now Bitcoin can move on to bigger and brighter things...
This is why decentralized exchanges will be the next step in the development of the cryptocurrency community. Centralized exchange are the weak point in the crypto world right now. Once that happens there will be no stopping cryptocurrencies. Also fully anonymous cryptocurrency blockchains and transaction networks using the coinjoin technology will make cryptos impossible to control or stop.
Darkcoin is already implementing the coinjoin algorithm to make tracing a transaction impossible.
Article: http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/02/darkcoin-anonymous-cryptocurrenc...
"This is why government regulated exchanges will be the next step in the development of the cryptocurrency community."
FIFY and you can then kiss all those lauded advantages of crypto digital fiat over gov backed digital/paper fiat bye bye.
De-centralized bank accounts don't exist - exchanges require bank accounts. Your proposition can't exist.
Mt. Gox is on it's last breath
Dying a certain death
Fonestar will yap
But the "coins" he can't tap
Maybe it still buys meth?
What happened to Bitcoin? What is your point?
Bitcoin is on its way out
There's little left to doubt
It's really quite funny
It never was money
Grab your gold and watch the rout
Just fucking die shitcoin. No one will miss you.
I guess there's more than one way to kill a competitor to US FRN's....
Didn't see that one coming.... no not really. Everybody saw it coming. Everybody that is except for..... FONESTAR!
I'm sorry, but this thread if for Bitcon holders only, please step aside. Aaaaaaannd it's gone.
Are you an idiot? He has been calling for a Mt. Gox failure for months.
And to answer my own question, yes, you are an idiot. You let your personal biases, hatred, and fear get in the way of making rational decisions.
You're a liar - he's made no such comment EVER until this incident was already public.
were those protesters 'virtually' hanging out front, or were they really out front expecting bitcon to fall from the sky?
All mana tapped and no cards in hand. Fucked.
BTC everywhere is taking a pounding. I wonder if the "Magic" is gathering?
BTC-e doesn't look too pounded to fonestar.
You sound like Elmo talking in 3rd person all the time.
I admit... it's funny to watch you get your ass handed to you.
Mt Gox were always doomed - when goverment ageencies and finacial intitutes issued warnings it was on Mt gox !
everyone knew what was going on there for the last 5 months people have been warned that mt Gox is a ponzi sceme ?
What they neglected to mention was that bitcoin - was not
Mt Gox were always doomed - when goverment ageencies and finacial intitutes issued warnings it was on Mt gox !
everyone knew what was going on there for the last 5 months people have been warned that mt Gox is a ponzi sceme ?
What they neglected to mention was that bitcoin - was not
Don't worry boy they will all follow suit. Whichever "exchange" you use will also go the way of the Gox. They reel you whores in, then fold up the tables and skip town. You better have your lawnchair ready to go sit outside their building.
Remember, if it happened to the BIGGEST exchange... Your shitcoins are never safe.
Lesson learned...
A GOLD coin in the hand is worth 2 in the exchange.
GOLD- Everywhere you want to be.
When you consider the 1200 high, it's pounded hard & deep in the ass with no lube.
With horsecock.
Ya can't fight city hall, i.e., the NSA!
almost couldnt comment on this as i nearly tripped over a small pile of silver in my office...
Yes, my physical silver is quite happy in my safe.... All tucked in and warm and cuddly!
they have to make a case for centrally produced virtual coin..
Just what the world needs -- a currency generated by computer. When the NSA has capacity that takes a $2 mil water bill per mth to cool. WTF!
Looks like Mt. Gox needs a Mox..
Let the fraud prosecutions commence.
Sure, except prosecute who for what? Bitcoin is an intangible asset. What laws apply? Good luck finding a prosecutor who gives a crap, and if you find one, good luck to him figuring out who to charge with what.
Most likely the same cartel that hammers gold and silver is shanking bitcoin. The gov said "If you sheeple want your bitcoin you can have your bit coin" and then wammo! Ha Ha!
It appears to me that most of the scamming and screwing of btc users are actually the big btc insiders, whoever they actually are.
precisely: all the more reason NEVER to use it. Gold & silver have atoms, intrinsic value, and a lower entry cost is GOOD since you still get the ATOMS.
Bitcoin has no such advantage: the lower the price, the faster the drop in price, the more dangerous they are to hold or use which means you shouldn't hold or use them at all.
MtGox Bitcoin:Last:$137.31
I warned Mr and Mrs Gox over and over again about their alcoholic tech guy but they would'nt listen.
I was finally approved for trading last week. I joined coinbase instead.
Just as a FYI - part of the reason for the low price on Mt. Gox is that lawyers have been telling Mt Gox customers that they're better off converting their accounts to fiat in bankruptcy proceedings, since the law is established with respect to accounts denominated in fiat. This is causing people to sell within Gox (because they can't withdraw BTC or fiat, so all anyone can do is transact inside Gox) which is pushing the price down.
See... Now (or soon) is the time to buy.
What does it mean to "own" a bitcoin? What do you own? How do you know you own it? Kinda like owning an alpaca farm in New Zealand.
It's kinda like owning a coin you get at Chuck E Cheese (CEC) and creating an exchange to buy and sell CEC coins. Unbelievably, and unfortunatly for children that are good at playing video games, no one will pay $1,200 for a CEC coin....
It's a ledger entry. Everyone has a copy of the ledger. There is no central point of control, and no need to trust ANYONE.
But I guess you, like so many here, prefer the feeling of Janet Yellen's thick cock between your cheeks.
" There is no central point of control, and no need to trust ANYONE."
Laughed at with no comment necessary.
More like no comment possible, because you are a laughing ignoramus who has no idea what he is talking about.
umm.... fail.
A ledger entry isn't money, or even currency.
There is no value whatsoever to it: since all BTC are equal they are all equally worth zero.
Is it really any surprise? All the central banks have decided Bitcoin needs to go. I am sure there were/are many state actors working to take it down.
As the Japanese like to say: please dont be alarmed!
If you think about it the value in the Magic the Gathering trading cards wasnt all that much different - it was worth something as long as other people were ready to pay real money for it (and quite a lot in its heydays). Well at least they are somewhat pretty to look at and you might still be able to play a game or two with your friends (although I never found the game appealing enough to really bother) so in a way they are a better store of utility than say tullips...
Of course now in hindsight everyone's going to realize what a ponzi scheme bitcoin was. I can only say: no shit sherlock!
Bzzzt Fail .... eg. Madoff created a ponzi scheme, based on USD .... MtGox looks like a ponzi scheme, based on BTC.
There is a more subtle argument that FRN's pretending to be USD (silver), is also a ponzi scheme based on USD ...
At any rate, both USD (silver) and BTC are currencies - not ponzi's. Lots of scam's, and frauds of all kind built using both of those currencies though.
Equating USD to silver is quite incorrect. USD is universally recognized as fiat currency, while silver is universlly recognized as real money.
Technically, legally, the US measure of a dollar (not FRN) is a weight of silver.
It's not used today but that I know of, it was never revoked.
I'm not American so maybe I missed it.
bu..bu..but...
b1tcoynez haz tha 1nvULn3rables!!!
bitcoin ... ultracoin
wondercoin powers ACTIVATE
form of ... EPIC FAIL
At least for the moment no roadblocks will be put in place by the rulers?
OK, at what moment will they be instituted? At $1200? Anyone really want to take that risk? With their own money?
Who could be that dumb?
What's worse:
expecting btc / cash delivery from MtQox
or, expecting gold delivery from the Qomex for 'gold' or 'silver'?
(quotes are the mattering thing on this issue)
Serves MTGOX right.
Read my previous post on the issue. Anyone who knew anything about mtgox clowns would not touch them with a barge pole. They were ripping people off at 15% inflated BTC prices - they knew people were converting back to BTC in desperation to get money off their exchange before it imploded.
Elsewhere BTC is trading at around $580
I've read it three times and can't see where the article says, or suggests, that Mt Gox is "finished." That seems like an extremely misleading headline. I am ready to admit I'm an idiot if it's right there in front of me and I keep missing it.
It seems pretty likely that Team Mt. Gox is busy selling all the bitcoins they hold to the other exchanges for a higher price and refunding to their clients at a lower price, if at all. Of course they deserve the arb for all their hard work. I think it is pretty clear they are done. But who knows, there are still many fools out there based on some of the absurd comments here.
Lloyd Bitfein is doing Gox's work!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
It's right in front of you.
Seeing what's happened to MtQox & bitcoin itself on every exchange, ESPECIALLY the daily spread for localbitcoins being 500 to sell and 1500 to buy, 2000 to buy today, ANY concept whatosever that Fail is not the only future, is the concept that gravity will turn sideways and produce space-time leprechauns to mow your lawn.
It's that far-fetched.
LOL, everyone here is so pessimistic they aren't even bothering to do a 5 minute google search and figure out what's really going on. Turns out there was a double spend sort of vulnerability found in Bitcoin and Mt. Gox claims they are working with the Bitcoin developers to figure out a fix for it.
The actual vulnerability which was found only affects people who are trying to do multiple transactions at the same time, where basically an attacker is able to make it look like a transaction was rejected when it really was not, thereby making it possible for exchanges to end up paying out people twice or more. The short term solution is put in a delay between retry attempts that lasts longer than the attack.
Since Mt. Gox has not already solved the problem by doing this, it is clear that they have having some other problem other than this, most likely that they're out of cash or something, which is not the responsibility of the Bitcoin protocol itself. But yeah, sure, let's all shout "I told you so, Bitcoin is finished!", because clearly a software update and a bankruptcy of one exchange couldn't POSSIBLY solve all this.
Another believer who keeps on believing.
lol
Talking about bitcoin on this site is like talking about PM on a CNN comment site. The intelligence of the ZH community is only exceeded by its bias. Some of us have been prepping for a long time and hold enough ounces of silver to choke a horse. I choose to hedge a little by purchasing and holding some bitcoin. I wished things were as absolute as all you shmexperts think they are, but they aren't. A leming is a leming, be it sheeple or a prepper. Remember, you aint right till your right. I choose to think for myself. When hyperinflation really kicks in, people arent going to be buying harps and piano's to get out of their fiat when there's something like bitcoin available. Buying PM will be difficult at the price its going to be when the sheep awaken. PM is primary, everything else is a hedge. So if Im wrong, I lose a little money and still have enough PM to choke a horse. if Im right, I'll have even more money to buy PM with.
When hyperinflation kicks in no one will be able to keep the grid up, any grid, to use bitcon. No phone, no power, no email, none of it. Gone. Shut down. For years or forever.
Dumbass, we don't need to figure it out - we got a fix already, called GOLD, whose atoms have NO flaws in being used as money.
If you need to bug-fix it - it isn't money. If you need to use it on a fiat exchange for dollars & yen, for euros & nonsense, you aren't using money, you're using DEBT VOUCHERS for CURRENCY VOUCHERS which are just another kind of debt.
The merry-go-round-of-Fail.
A delay that lasts longer than an attack? IDIOT.
An attack could BE ENDLESS.
Take a good look at that chart...
You are looking at the future of ALL buttcon exchanges.
I find this all rather amusing personally. What's that you say? Reggie Middleton is bringing btc out of the shadows and adding "trust". Yeah, how's that ultracoin doing? Which ultracoin you sensibly ask? Reggie's ultracoin of course, and I must say his crowdfunding project is looking comically grim:
http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/fund/discover/21-software-developement/1...
Wow!!! He has raised a whole $155.00 from all of five dummies, er I mean donors!!! Whoo hooo!! Too funny.
Apparently, the sheep are not quite as terminally stupid as I thought. So that's something anyway.
I am unable to see how the continued existence of bitcoin is compatable with the inexorable deterioration of the world economy, which virtually everyone here on Zero Hedge assumes to be a certainty. If standards of living further erode, if resources become more expensive and difficult to acquire, if social unrest becomes more prevalent, if globalism is doomed and nationalism resurgent, if war is ever more likely, if Ukraine-like scenes are in store for cities around the world—all statements I agree with, by the way—then there is no way on earth that a significant number of people will be able to use electronic toys to purchase the end products of global distribution chains with a digital currency. The whole idea is preposterous.
The world of the last twenty years—the world of the internet, asset bubbles, and globalism—that world is falling apart. Bitcoin was just the latest extravagance to be added to an already overcomplex entanglement of civilizational detritus. It's own exigencies will destroy it. I seriously doubt there will even be much of an internet left by 2020, nevermind a Bitcoin exchange. The trend of the future is towards the more concrete, not the more abstract; towards clear and classical thinking, not utopian Kurzweilian excogitations. The idea of Bitcoin is predicated on the belief that the future will be just like the last 5 years, only more so. I just don't see that happening.
You got the doom part down pat, now it is time to get the rest
Wow, that is quite a hoard of Beanie Babies. You must really like tiny stuffed amimals.
No I hate the things but I heard they were going up un value, some guy paid $1200 for a green shamrock bear on Ebay. I got like $250k worth of these things. Soon I'll be a millionaire.
Bitcoin currency holders need to face the bitter truth: bitcoin has no intrinsic value. If there is a way to convert bitcoin holdings to hard assets like gold coins, the insiders are going that route.
All money returns to its intrinsic value. Paper and virtual. Right Voltaire?
There is no such thing as 'intrinsic' value.
ALL value is subjective
oh my look at the comment list ---- bitcoin is massive !!"!!
I would guess that Bitcoin and all other virtual currencies have been/will continue to be attacked because they threaten the existing order. Currently, the exchanges are being attacked because that's the easiest method...no sense having a currency if it isn't redeemable/tradable anywhere. I would further guess that the NSA is working diligently to develop other methods of crashing virtual currencies.
Those methods will be rolled out in the future, especially if exchanges manage to plug the current holes.
And I guess the NSA is behind this because they are the ones who stand to benefit. Other up-and-comers (e.g. China) have chafed under the US' reserve currency status. Bitcoin furthered their goals by providing an escape out of the dollar system. Note though: to the extent that China couldn't control Bitcoin et al., they would've had to attack it as well, but at some later point.
"I would guess that Bitcoin and all other virtual currencies have been/will continue to be attacked because they threaten the existing order."
It is not necessary for Bitcoin to be attacked for it to fall in value. All that is necessary is that people stop buying it. This is because every security needs "positive buying pressure" to maintain its value, since there are always people wanting or needing to sell. For example, Bitcoin miners needing to sell some coins to raise money to pay expenses, exchanges need money for day-to-day operations, and individuals lose interest in this particular speculation and take profits or accept losses.
So there is no need to invoke grandiose conspiracy theories. Events can be explained by the normal workings of the market for a highly speculative security that is losing its initial speculative frenzy.
"So there is no need to invoke grandiose conspiracy theories. Events can be explained by the normal workings of the market for a highly speculative security that is losing its initial speculative frenzy."
Yes, it is certainly possible that Bitcoin is falling in value due to straight-up market forces. But there are at least two reasons to doubt that:
1) It seems to me that more and more retailers/institutions are adopting Bitcoin, not to mention rich individuals investing either in Bitcoin explicitly or in its development. Where is the collapse of demand here?
1a) Note: the "hits" on Mt. Gox and Silk Road came first. If this introduced uncertainty into the future of Bitcoin (and reduced demand), that was an after-effect. (and as I assert in #2 below, was the entire point)
2) There's nothing "grandiose" about this...thing. I can't even call it a "conspiracy" since actions against Silk Road at least were overt. It doesn't involve or necessitate mulitple "conspirators." The US government-financial complex is the one that benefits, and they quite simply sent their electronic brute squad out to whack Bitcoin. Easy-peasy.
I'm not an IT guy, so I'm sure my ignorance is about to show (if there are any IT people here, please correct me).
There are multiple levels of attack that actors (read: NSA) can or have used:
- The currency itself. My understanding is that Bitcoin and others are double-secret encrypted, or something. Attacking them directly would probably be the most difficult tactic.
- Exchange sites are static and localized (?). Attacking them is as simple as DDS attacks, which any retard could do (after all, isn't this "Anonymous' " preferred method?)
- Internet infrastructure. Not necessarily the hardware (though that's possible too), but the nodes that surround exchange sites. Even if the currency and exchange sites are fool-proof, what's to stop the US from maliciously re-directing all traffic away from the exchanges?
- User viruses. How about introducing viruses that attack not the currency nor the exchange sites, but the computers of Bitcoin users? This would create a "chilling effect" of using the currency, in addition to stopping specific usage.
I'm sure IT people can come up with many other methods of attack. My point is, virtual currencies are too easy to attack and the vested interests' stakes are too high. War is being waged on virtual currencies, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. They won't be allowed to succeed.
Good replies.
NONE of this applies here.
The sole #1 attack on bitcoin is that exchanges are linked to FIAT BANK ACCOUNTS. Freezing them has been the most powerful downward pressure on bitcoin and added so much volatility NO ONE on Earth could use it as a unit of currency.
seems to me "more and more" people are rejecting bitcoin and those claiming to accept it really don't give a flying fuck for it.
They can't handle inventory vs bitcoin, they can only speculate & without hedging they will go bankrupt.
There's seems to be a lot of misunderstanding in this thread about the difference in bitcoin dying and one exchange dying. Mt. Gox had been marginalized in the bitcoin world for months. This is the culmination of all their false promises and bad blood that had generated. The death of Mt. Gox really is a bullish thing for Bitcoin as it takes out the last known really bad actor.
Bitcoin adoption has continued to be positive in 2014. After the china debacle turned out to be about as eventful as Y2K, things looked fairly positive until this Gox thing. They are incompetent, there is nothing else really going on here. People are going to get burned and those will likely be turned away, but it isn't stopping the rate of adoption at all.
I'm not sure why there is still so much hatred for bitcoin by people not even invested in it. It isn't going to die and it isn't going to go to zero no matter how many LOLs you put after your doom and gloom. If you don't see the value in cryptocurrency protocols by now, you're all going to miss the boat when one of them gains more mainstream adoption and becomes the preferred method for exchanging stocks, contracts, and other trust-based materials.
As an aside for those that claim it's a Ponzi - I suggest you go bitch on the WhatsApp article some more. A select group of early investors and developers who wrote a protocol to make it easier for people to chat, something they could already do on other chat protocols, somehow became worth 3 - 4 times the entire Bitcoin market cap in the exact same timeframe.
Yes, that's stupid to me as well, because I don't see 19 billion dollars worth of value in a fucking chat app that has almost 0 revenue and no ads. But someone does, and someone paid for it, and now to millions of facebook stockholders, it is worth what they just paid for it whether they want it to be or not.
Bitcoin is a lot more revolutionary than WhatsApp is and will ever be. The protocol that is. But you all stay blind to the potential if you wish.
Excellent post ... but the banker shills and ZHers that this the Exchange or Bitcoin (alt.coin, et.al.) is an issue (while not understanding the blockchain) will never give your post credit, no mater that it is due. They would rather put all there eggs in stcok/future speculation denominated in Central Bank issued fraud (credit). My guess would be that the biggest mouths on here have never once done a BTC transfer to another entity on the otherside of the planet (avoiding multiple bank fees, swift account fees, paperwork,filing, translations, chops/stamps, etc.) . These are the same people that don't belive in holding physical PM, but instead belive that their GLD ahares and IRA gold really exist. They will continue to side with JPM and their fiat overloards, while the rest of us remain free from the banksters using the blockchain to exchange and transfer wealth freely.
http://ledracapital.com/blog/2014/2/17/bitcoin-series-19-bizarre-shadowy...
I love the link.
Revised -- too much coffee and using a fucking POS iPad with a keyboard:
Excellent post ... but the banker shills and ZHers believe that this Exchange or Bitcoin itself (alt.coin, et.al.) is a major issue with the technology (while not understanding the blockchain or what it does).
They will never give your post credit. They would rather put all there eggs in stock/future speculation denominated in Central Bank issued fraud (sovereign credit). My guess would be that the biggest mouths on here have never once done a BTC transfer to another entity on the otherside of the planet (avoiding multiple bank fees, swift account fees, paperwork,filing, translations, chops/stamps, etc.) These are the same people that don't belive in holding physical PM, but instead belive that their GLD shares and IRA gold accounts really exist. They will continue to side with JPM and their fiat overloards, while some of us remain free from the banksters fees and control by using the blockchain to exchange and transfer wealth freely (and so far legally).
http://ledracapital.com/blog/2014/2/17/bitcoin-series-19-bizarre-shadowy...
Keep trying CP, your post still sucks.
I don't need to stand in front of a train to know it will kill me if I do so & stay there.
Same with bitcoin: it's SMARTER that I've never used it. To do so, to use it, is to DEMAND my pockets be emptied by robbers.
The dumbest thing you could ever do is to try it just to prove a point. All you will prove is you are robbed.
Money is gold & silver, not electrons or paper.
You seem massively confused. Trying to equate Bitcoin and WhatsApp is tricky in any case, and I don't know where WhatsApp gets revenue after a cheap app download (and nobody on Earth knows why Facebook would pay that much for WhatsApp except it's all funny money anyway), but Bitcoin doesn't get the app revenue or any significant revenue at all. It's like hording old text messages because you think someday they'll be worth billions. However WhatsApp works that's not it.