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Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Is Finished
Just in case one was wondering for a reason not to take "Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange" too seriously, here is the latest news that has largely slammed the coffin shut on what was once the largest Bitcoin exchange. From MtGox:
Dear MtGox Customers,
Thank you for your patience this week while we are working on re-initiating bitcoin withdrawals. In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building in Shibuya. The move, combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress.
As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon as possible to keep everyone in the loop.
We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and continuous support.
Best regards,
MtGox Team
This is what a dying virtual currency exchange looks like...
In summary, all BTC withdrawals re-frozen for another week...blamed on a small group of protesters hanging around out front of the offices looking for their money... another day in bitcoin land...
As we noted when they last froze withdrawals:
Bitcoin is no longer in Phase 1 of its evolutionary cycle. I believe Phase 2 for Bitcoin began in earnest back in November 2013, when the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs held its first hearings on the topic. Those hearings made it clear that, at least for the moment, no significant roadblocks would be put in place to prevent people from transacting with one another using the crypto-currency. Phase 2 also saw the largest Bitcoin investment to-date, a $25 million infusion led by Silicon Valley VC firm Andreessen Horowitz, as well as acceptance by major U.S. retailers, with Overstock being the most significant. Bitcoin is becoming serious, and serious means serious accountability.
As a free market currency, the market will decide the products required to keep the Bitcoin protocol open and functioning to its highest potential. The disruption of Mt. Gox will be another test for Bitcoin. A test which certainly represents a psychological challenge, but probably not much more than that. Bitcoin will survive and come out of this stronger than it was before, just as it has done so many times in the past. However, I do not believe Mt. Gox will be so fortunate.
For Mt. Gox though, I think it’s pretty much game over.
As Max Pelham noted (Coinwatch),
"People will be leaving Mt. Gox either way, the trust isn't already very high, and with this now people are going to trust them even less,"
"I think Mt. Gox is going to lose relevance even more now, they're not very forthcoming in their public relations, their technical problems and their withdrawal problems aren't going away. Even if they fix it now, the withdrawal problem still remains with USD and Euro withdrawals."
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Lies.
Not for ONE SECOND did ANY bitcoin supporter say a word about MtQox being no good even after I repeatedly, for months,
called it MtQox.
Not a one. Every last bitconner was taken by surprise. That's a fact.
EVERY EXCHANGE ON EARTH is equally vulnerable to bitcoin showing BITCOIN ITSELF HAS NO VALUE.
Zero. Zip. negatory.
Only that which has an ATOMIC NUCLEUS is money AND THIS IS WHY. No algorithm, no bank account, no hacking possible, the GOLD IS IN YOUR HAND OR YOU ARE A BROKE ASS MUTHAFUCKA.
As for Y2k it took programmers more than 3 solid years to fix it all and they all worked very hard & in advance of the event. I watched it. if they hadn't a ton of shit would have shut down.
+21,000,000
I have laughed by ass off at all these bitcoinsters like Fonestar trying to backpeddle and claim that they knew that Mt. Gox was compromised or doomed months ago, when I have NEVER read any such post by any of them before this week.
Liar, liars, virtual pants on fire.
Not to worry: with enough eyeballings on the case the truth must blobbing up eventually.
You have most certainwise bitten into the crust of the mattering thing with US 'american' citizenism eternal nature vigor.
doublepost
+1
Shibuya, bitchez!
So much for the store of value and "Gold 2.0": Bitcoin continues its troubles now related not only to the herd mentality chasing the bubbles, but to the fatal flaw in the core of it praised crypto-currency architecture. Meanwhile the real and one only Gold is breaking out with topping $1,322 intraday. Realisation that there is no substitutes for Gold will be another factor to ignite this new Gold Bull leg. China was first here again and bought record amount of 247 tons of Gold in January. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/bubble-chronicles-drug-site-silk-roa...
"If a malicious actor or botnet (a volunteer or hacked collection of computers controlled by networked software coordinating the actions of the computers) obtains a majority of the processing power dedicated to mining on the Bitcoin Network, it may be able to alter the Blockchain on which the Bitcoin Network and all bitcoin transactions rely by constructing alternate blocks if it is able to solve for such blocks faster than the remainder of the miners on the Bitcoin Network can add valid blocks. In such alternate blocks, the malicious actor or botnet could control, exclude or modify the ordering of transactions, though it could not generate new bitcoins or transactions using such control. Using alternate blocks, the malicious actor could double spend its own bitcoins and prevent the confirmation of other users’ transactions for so long as it maintains control. To the extent that such malicious actor or botnet does not yield its majority control of the processing power on the Bitcoin Network or the Bitcoin community does not reject the fraudulent blocks as malicious, reversing any changes made to the Blockchain may not be possible."
WTF ?!?!
I am so glad this does not pertain to my physical gold and silver.
You're an easily fooled subject. I want to personally thank you for being a slave both mentally and physically. Do you know how to read anything other than my government propaganda. Kim Jong Un loves your dedication to his cause. I will send you more paper rectangles, my dear subject.
Oh, I'm going to feed you and your family to the dogs in the end. Enjoy your paper rectangles and enjoy the warm sensation of hiding your golden coins in your rectal cavity until I send my thugs to take them from you by brute force.
Sour grapes much? Loser.
Kim Jong Un is a visionary and does not harbor such feelings. I leave these things to the unwashed masses such as you 'Tool'. Good name for a good peasant. I am thrilled that my programming techniques have worked so well for you, however, I sometimes have feelings of guilt as you are so misguided. You willingly drive yourself and your family straight into a wall at full speed while I and my fellow leaders profit from your lack of foresight. Please have some more paper rectangles on me. Enjoy them while I purchase more Bitcoin.
My buddy Hitler was right. "What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
Cheerio :)
Chuck Norris has released a new coin. But the encryption is so strong that
... no one can mine it.
NorrisCoin encryption is so powerful, only a roundhouse kick FROM Chuck Norris can mine it from the fabric of space-time & the coins are so immensely concentrated in value only a finger-throat punch from Chuck Norris can be used to start a NorrisCoin transaction anywhere in the universe.
Sounds like a polite version of Tulving's gold shipment status updates after he has your money.
The theory that the CIA/NSA/whateverthefuckA created Bitcoin seems more and more plausible each day. Watching Bitcoin crash and burn will give something the central banks can point to so they can say "See, we're still the safest form of currency.".
Competing currency outside of a central banking system is 100% impossible.
Blood, with the exception of derivitaves?
What? Even I, Kim Jong Un, am surprised at your witless thought processes. You even help me in building the FUD for me! Thank you! You're a good boy. I shall not feed your family to the dogs on this day. You're welcome. Egad. I may have to allow the teaching of deductive reasoning in my homeland once again, as you people scare the shit outta me.
Sounds like a preview of the dollar...
Does anyone else read it as "mount goatse" for some reason?
I read it as MtQOX because anyone who was foolish enough to "buy" bit "coins" got mounted by many, many dirty Qox.
Mt.Gox is trading at this hour at $121/coin, down from $1,250.00 not long ago, a loss of 90%.
The chart will soon need a logarithmic scale. :-/
The chart will soon need a logarithmic scale. :-/
Needed it a long time ago but now it will need TWO. One for the bubble-view & one for the pennypips view.
I wonder if anyone has killed themselves in Second Life as a result. The death of the character is virtual, but teh pain is real.
Haha. Any idiot buying a fake coin for $800 deserves their face ripped off.
You're a good slave. Keep using my paper rectangle tulips. Oh, by the way, thanks for believing in all my government bullshit. Bitcoin will prevail as always and you, my poor peasant, will be wondering how you ended up with a nice big pile of worthless paper. Good boy. Thanks for following orders.
I don't own paper, you jackass. You're also a hypocrite since BTC is a USD deriviative. I doubt you wake up each morning and look to add to your weight of BTC. No, you look at the dollar/paper price of it.
And, how, my dear peasant is BTC a USD derivative? Since you lack the foresight of a leader such as me, Kim Jong Un, you will eventually see how things will be priced in BTC, not the dying paper ponzi that you believe in. When my dear Chinese friends stop buying your US TBonds, your ass will pucker and you will cry as all peasants who follow orders do. No, my poor mentally-challenged subject, BTC is not a USD derivative. You see, even as the BTC white papers and code are widely available for all to read and decipher, you do not do so, instead, relying upon my directives. You are a perfect slave. Oh, I have printed more paper rectangles with some of my dead friends on them for you. Please enjoy them while you play 'hot potato' with them.
If they're so great why are you trying to get me to buy them? You'd think you'd want to buy them all yourself.
You're rationalizing your bad decision to buy fake coins.
I am in no way trying to get you to buy Bitcoin. Please Corky, do not buy them. Bitcoin is for the leaders, not the followers. You are half correct in that I do want to buy them all for myself, although this is impossible. But it good for us all to have dreams of wealth. I'm glad that you are able to have some understanding given your limited mental powers. As long as you follow the orders you are given, everything will be alright. I fear that my enforcement of the 'do not question the authorities' doctrine has been too effective for certain subjects such as you. But we will always need someone to place my groceries in the paper bag. This shall be your fate, I am afraid.
Dear phonestar,
You lost.
Get over it.
SINCE ALL holders of BTC seek profits in dollars, ALL use of BTC is a derivative of USD.
Which of these bitcoins should I buy?
http://coinmarketcap.com/
The one that pays you to buy it.
QQCoin
Cuz the bill still croud loves it. Not cuz it's money...
BTFD BITCHEZ!!!!!!!!!1
Based on what I've studied and read. The only way I would buy BTC is "off exchange" or directly from someone selling them or imediately transfer the coins from an reputable exchange to a personal encripted dark wallet on my own external storage device.
This is the correct way to do it. It's the digital equivalent of holding physical -- if it's not in your wallet, off-line and under your control, it can be taken/spent by the exchange, hackers, etc. Not significantly different than fiat in the bank, but without any insurance protections.
Greed & stupidity.
What good is a casino chip with no casino? Bitcoin's strength was the payment network, not the medium of bitcoin. The bitcoin itself was pure fantasy fun gambling. With no casino, the speculation is pointless. Mt Gox was just the first exchange to go under. It won't be the last.
Please, hold on a second, this is for all you Bitiots.
lollolololololololololollololololololoololololololololoololololollolololololoolololololololo
Toldyaso
Any idea who hacked Mtgox? My bet is that it was someone with NSA level computing power. The Fed don't like competition. LOL. If you are going to challenge Goliath it's best to have a good slingshot first. Missing is not an option.
Any idea who hacked Mtgox? My bet is that it was someone with NSA level computing power. The Fed don't like competition. LOL. If you are going to challenge Goliath it's best to have a good slingshot first. Missing is not an option.
Any idea who hacked Mtgox? My bet is that it was someone with NSA level computing power. The Fed don't like competition. LOL. If you are going to challenge Goliath it's best to have a good slingshot first. Missing is not an option.
How hard can it be to hack your own program?
They got burned by running old software that allowed for some part of the transaction ID's fauxed... They Prolly got robbed long time... RIP Mtgox...
"Those hearings made it clear that, at least for the moment, no significant roadblocks would be put in place to prevent people from transacting with one another using the crypto-currency. "
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think that they are the source of the manipulation caused volatility. These idiot techies are just adding to the fire.
Just checked my PMs.....Yep! Still there. I wish you all luck in getting your shit back.
Bitcoin will never die. But for you haters, please keep using my paper rectangles with pictures of dead people drawn upon them. You're all good slaves.
Even I, Kim Jong Un, cannot stop Bitcoin. This is why I buy Bitcoin myself while giving the peasants paper rectangles.
Dinner is ready. Turn off your X-Box and come upstairs. Please clean your room when you go back down for the evening, honey. That basement smells like the devil.
Now, now my dear dim-witted subject. Please try not to get upset. I know that change is difficult for you peasants to undergo, however, you do not have to buy the Bitcoin, you see. You will do as your imbecile peasant forefathers did and you will gladly take from my hand what I feed you without question. This in turn, assures that I will buy Bitcoin while you take the paper tulips that I print every day. You are bold, and I do admire your brave, yet feeble-minded attempts to learn. The world will pass you by, my dear subject.
Oh, Kim Jong Un will allow you to send something new called ‘Email’. I know this will be hard for you to use, as you can’t hold it in your hand. It’s scary because you can’t hold it in your hand and it’s sent instantly without cost. This will make you weep, of course, but it is the future. Does Kim Jong Un also have to explain that there are automobiles that you don’t have to crank by hand to start?
They said the same thing about S & H green stamps, which were smaller paper rectangles.
o/t
In place of Mt. Gox disappearing, QuifeBook instead:
Internet website Facebook is Finished
- ZH June 2015
(just projecting into the future, using the power of visualization/concentration of thought to cause this global cyst to disappear. "Thank you, Keeper of all that is Good and Evil, for making FB crumble and wilt into oblivion in utter destruction and humiliating total and complete vile ruin. amen).
I heard this quote on the very financially savvy (/s) Yahoo! finance, "How much revenue will SackBook's new aquisition What'sAPP generate? WHO CARES! It doesn't have to earn anything!"
$16Bill for 0 rev's is cool.
Buy eyeballs now, for rev's later.
Heard this before somewhere, at all time highs...
my favorite comments are the ones about how people will get to their bitcoins using their smartphones. ROFLMAO,
really? you honestly think your solar charged cell phone is going to do diddly? Just how foolish are the folks around here?
those cell towers only have so much battery power before they need just from the local power co. the towers go down your smart phone is as useful as a door stop to access anything.
People under the pressure of adversity yearn for an easier future. I understand the temptation to believe in something like bitcoin. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is, and people are not inherently trustworthy. That is why government is the oldest human institution.
Dear Mr. Inflammation,
As you are sheltered behind my wall of propaganda regarding the 'evil' ways of the western world, this thing of which you are afraid is already happening and working in the world. I have graciously provided an article for you to read. I expect great parties in my honor for allowing you this privilege of reading an 'outside' news article.
You see, as not all peasants in the world are controlled by me, the Great Kim Jong Un, or my equally-evil USA Government, there are great masses that do not have the conveniences of 'banking'. This is why they already use cellular phones for sending payments. I know, you are aghast at such bold initiatives, but please leave the heavy thinking to leaders such as me. Your fate is as a follower, not a great leader such as me. Please do not buy Bitcoins as this is scary new technology which is beyond your comprehension.
Here is how some other people conduct 'banking and payments' my dear peasant.
http://theconversation.com/bitcoin-fuels-africas-banking-revolution-16044
I shall grant you 5 paper rectangles for your ignorance and blind faith in supporting your USA Government regime.
That was a fine vintage of /sarc. I could see you giving MillionDollarFucktard_ a run for his bonus.
These are the same n00bs who think that global warming is a hoax, because they can't read a thermometer, and who also think drawing flat lines on curved charts & "head and shoulders" patterns of nonsense are "technical" analysis.
The Fed is rigging markets but with morons like this, they're practically BEGGING to be robbed. ZERO challenge.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6477219/remix-e-trade-baby-loses-everything
Looks like Bitcoin is just a test drive for "solutions" soon to come. A bit like Cyprus.
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/666-will-be-embedded-its-number-hi...
I wonder ...
why the Bitcoin Foundation pegs its membership fees to the dollar?
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/support
Anything that is as disruptive as Bitcoin will take it's share of arrows and be the focal point of hatred, as paper rectangle fans are too used to holding their paper tulips. But this, too, shall be a footnote in history, as we move one more step above the apes and start using digital currency. Can you imagine that we once mailed letters? I mean you morons would write out actual letters and mail them from the post office! I'm sure all you losers were screaming about how evil email was and saying, 'If I can't hold the mail in my hand, why would I want it?". But you have been proven wrong and you will again, my poor, stupid subjects. Please keep believing in my corrupt system and keep doing my work for me, while I buy all the Bitcoin I can get my hands on.
Oh, thanks again for thinking like a slave, while believing you are free. I will end up feeding you to the dogs.
You are the epitomy of stupidity bcking. I must say you have a very appropriate avatar though.
The boldness of youth is soon tempered by the fires of adversity.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free
d00d, that's you.
I have gold & silver, you have electrons.
You're fucked.
Dinosaurs never admit they were wrong. They just die in silence....
The Bitcoin Channel
Bitcoin hasn't disrupted shit but for the sad, sad bag-holders who got in at 1200 and will be bankrupt.
Eternal shame & a stiff breeze of poverty is their life lesson.
MTGox is playing out exactly like this one did...many years ago.
People made a killing at first, many didn't think it was all BS, How could this great company be telling all of these new lies everyday to cover it all up??? People bought shares all the way for a year, as it dropped, from $240 to .001 cents finally truth came out. Nothing was ever there at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bre-X
Bre-GOX strikes again!
Anyone doing bitcoin exchange arbitrage?
That would be hard. Although you can still buy bitcoin at MtGox, you cannot get possession of the bitcoin you buy there, so you cannot sell them at a higher price at another exchange.
Looking at the difference between the bitcoin price at MtGox and other exchanges, it looks to me like the market is saying there is about a 80% chance that MtGox will default.
roach-motel - arbitrage can't work if one side is blocked from transactions.
no insider trading here!
BITCOIN WAS AN IQ TEST
YOU FAILED
I'm afraid this is the crystal clear truth.
Ah, you are half correct, my dimwitted subject. Bitcoin IS an IQ test and YOU failed. This is why you are a subject and loyal follower. Not a leader. Five paper rectangles shall be granted to you.
Ouch, I guess that's what a run on BTC exchange looks like.
Here is the latest update from Mt.Gox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ9wNT21c_s
I'd recomend all Bitcoin wipeouts to put together a class action suit and include Max Pump-n-dump Keiser in it.
Bitcoin , Bit-chez.
140/BTC bitch(ez)!
Told ya so. That's TWICE now. - Thu, 02/20/2014 - 18:14
http://flic.kr/p/kyKgtF 2014 feb 28 0406 EST: $6 BTC, that's right, SIX DOLLARS
bankruptcycoin for the epic FAIL
The coins have disappeared
The coins have disappeared
I'd have to say if you asked Mr. Exter where BitCoin belonged in his pyramid, he'd punch you repeatedly in the throat until you passed out.
The thing about virtual currencies is, you need to be sure what it is you're buying. If there is not some legally cognizable right that transfers with the "currency", you're giving your money away. Gold and silver have obvious utility as "money", since you can hold it in your hand. Land, coffee, livestock, etc. Contracts give you the right to acquire or transfer goods. Do bitcoins give you any rights? Does anyone even know? Are you just buying pixels?
If you own bitcoin you have the right to send it to other people. Nothing more, nothing less. And this is nothing more or less than the rights you get from owning fiat currency.
As we goldbugs say "if you do not hold it, you do not own it". The same goes for fiat currency (if in the bank it is not yours, as Cyprus clearly showed us all). The same goes for bitcoin, and this is the cause of the problems we now see with the MtGox exchange:
To ensure delivery of both bitcoin and fiat currency when people trade bitcoin the exchange needs to be in posession of both the bitcoin and the fiat traded at the exchange. Since the US government seized several million US$ of the MtGox client funds, MtGox have had major problems paying out fiat currency to those of their clients who wanted delivery of their fiat currency. This caused the price of bitcoin on MtGox to be about 15% higher at MtGox than on other exchanges, because their clients were purchasing bitcoin, as it still was possible to take delivery of bitcoin. So effectively people chose to take a 15% loss to get their capital out of the exchange.
But then recently MtGox stopped delivering bitcoin too. They claimed this was because they found a bug in the bitcoin protocol making it possible to double spend. Turned out that this was an issue that has been known for years which is easy to mitigate against. But the faulty outdated software at MtGox could not mitigate against this, and combined with lack of proper internal controls at MtGox it is likely that MtGox has been defrauded of large amounts of the bitcoin they hold for their clients.
Now it is impossible for MtGox clients to get their capital out from the exchange, and some of their clients are selling bitcoin in panic, hoping they will at least get some of the fiat currency in the coming bankruptcy proceedings. This has caused the price of bitcoin at the MtGox exchange to drop to about 20% of the price on other exchanges. And this presents an opportunity for arbitrage that only MtGox can use: Buy bitcoin for US$1 million at their own exchange, transfer the bitcoin to another exchange and sell for US$5 million. Rinse and repeat. The price pressure at other exchanges indicate that somebody are selling large amounts of bitcoin at several other exchanges, and IMHO it is likely that it is MtGox via a proxy. The money they earn this way may be enough to save them from bankruptcy.
"And this presents an opportunity for arbitrage that only MtGox can use"... incorrect.
Anybody can buy "GoxBTC" - by funding a MtGox account and buying. Until Monday, it could be done by obtaining a 'synthetic' "GoxBTC" position on, say, Plus500 or Ava. That's what I did over the weekend before Plus500 stopped quoting goxBTC and shifted to BTC-e (all it's done is prevent me from accumulating more: the position is still being updated).
This is just a binary bet:
Not for nothin: if the gox folks were smart they would be 'greenshoe-ing' the market - sitting below the bid and catching the nuffnuffs as they commit seppuku, while simultaneously shorting BTC-e and BitStamp (with leverage) on BitFinEx. Perfect inside-arb opportunity - an the perfect answer to any liquidity probhlems that they face as a result of the US government.(So for USD account holders... it's your overlords who helped cause this - karma, bitchez).
After the smoke clears, whatever BTC are in MtGox wallets ARE 'BTC': they are fungible - once released - with non-Gox BTC. And as such they have a value equal to BTC-e/BitStamp - the only difference is a default discount.
Geoffery T...not so. 80% of BTC exchanged where on MTGOX. It's dead. Poof, it's gone. The bankruptcy will kill any hope of your hopeful virtual fungibility. This was a Ponzi scheme and anyone buying this crap now is beyond stupid.
it's magical from the pixelpixies! How else are you suppposed to fly back down safely after climbing the giant beanstalk from your obviously magical handful of beans?
Last night I attended a FinTech (Financial technology) meeting in San Francisco with a VC development accelerator for Bitcoin companies. I wanted to learn more about Bitcoin and how it was developing. What I learned was:
I still don't believe Bitcoin can be a substitute for gold but it does have some useful characteristics and is likely to continue to grow exponentially.
I wanted to learn more about Bitcoin to see how it would compete with my own gold currency start up Goldbullliondebitcard.com
I am happy to see mtgox go away. False advertising, lies, BS. Karma was due these fools.
Elsewhere btc will drop until mtgox are done and gone. Then it should head back up.
Just my guess is all.
Ironic that we're intently discussing an exchange named after a trading-card game.
Idea: How about an index of virtual currencies, each named after a fictional creature? You could call them "Pocket Monies"...or PokeMon. Here are some hypothetical PR slogans:
"PokeMon: the ETF...gotta catch 'em all!"
"Pikachu, I choose you!"
Pokemoney! Brilliant! You better jump on that before someone else beats you to all those 12yr olds allowance money.
One thing about these btc threads, they are great for laughs!
MadEuro!
Yenzirru!
Swing Bhat-a-bhata
Barbarian Bolivar (instant classic) and of course... Peso-chu!
Word "Ponzi scheme" will be replaced by "Bitcoin scheme" in the future.
"Ponzi scheme" will be replaced by "US Dollar scheme". I, the great Kim Jong Un have fixed it for you. Five paper rectangles with pictures of dead guys drawn upon them shall be granted to you.
One gimmick after another.
I wonder how many other handles Fonestar had in the past.
I am not fonestar, but he is my brother from another mother. I'm amazed that you believe there are no true Bitcoin believers. You, sir, are a slave. You must be reading horse shit spewers like Krugman. Don't forget what he said:
"The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's".
Ah, my poor, naive subject. I shall grant you 5 paper tulip rectangles for being such a good slave.
Remember, if it happened to the BIGGEST exchange... Your shitcoins are never safe.
Lesson learned...
A GOLD coin in the hand is worth 2 in the exchange.
GOLD- Everywhere you want to be.
Bitcoin is so 2013.
Sing it Roy, sing it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jonf4JMK81k
Good.
IF it even worked, then it might be an alternative to PayPal. If I could buy bitcoins from my checking account, use them to buy a magazine subscription a minute later, and carry no bitcoin balance, that would be fine. Except, why not just move the money direct from my checking account to the magazine, if it's that easy?
Bitcoin as a commodity or asset is just asking for trouble, and when you ask for it, it comes.
The crazy part of all this is that there are fools out there dumb enough to STILL buy shitcoins for $572!
It should read:
$.572 to be kind. I can see a shitcoin being worth the price of one arcade game. Do arcade games still exist?
I've seen some neogeo's in a movie theater lobby.
I miss Virtua Fighter.
There is a place for a non-counterfeitable digital money. But to succeed, it must first know what money is. Money is "a promise to complete a trade".
BitCoin is a record of "wasted electrical energy".
A properly managed Medium of Exchange (MOE) exhibits zero INFLATION everywhere at all times. It is freely "certified promises to complete trades". BitCoin obviously doesn't have this property.
Properly managed MOE certificates are created with the origination of the trading promise and extinguished on delivery as promised. If delivery is not accomplished, a DEFAULT has occurred. DEFAULTed certificates are reclaimed through INTEREST collections. This is how the value of the money is guaranteed to never change over time or space ... that's what zero INFLATION means. The governing relation is: INFLATION = DEFAULT - INTEREST. Certificates exhibiting this characteristic are perfect items of barter.
There is one huge problem with a properly managed MOE: Government's are not accepted into the trading marketplace because they never complete their trading promises ... they just roll them over (a DEFAULT) and ever increase them (which can only lead to collapse).
Anyone can create a MOE and a properly managed MOE can have no competitors ... just equal players. A properly managed MOE is not much different than a properly managed insurance portfolio. And as you all know, there are many privately managed insurance portfolios.
Credit cards are the closest thing we now have to a properly managed MOE. But they are useless for long term trading promises. And they are too profitable to compete with a genuinely properly manged MOE. But it won't be long when they get a run for their money. The "swiping" devices are a commodity. And the network is already built and freely accessible ... it is the internet. The only component needed is a non-conterfeitable certificate ... just what BitCoin claims to be.
Todd Marshall
Plantersville, TX
Meh
Never. Money is a trade, not a promise. A promise is a debt. Money is anti-debt, it is the actual thing of value.
That's why bitcoin or dollars can't be money, only currency at best, and gold or silver, medicine or tools, dried foods, etc., are money.
Fee Simple, well located income producing real estate is superior. It pays dividends.
#LEARN
If you can find it. Most governments have no interest in permitting this.
Wrong. But replace "fee simple" with "allodial title" and you're close to correct.
The only problem with this is, no matter what kind of "title" you have, when the predators-that-be become as openly arrogant and predatory as they are today, ultimately NOTHING matters except your ability to evade them or destroy them (as well as produce and trade the real physical goods and goodies you need to survive, prosper and live a sufficiently satisfying life).
If you don't have allodial title, you don't own the property (speaking in so-called "legal" terms here, which is nothing but fiction of course). And that is why you must pay rent every year (property taxes), and are subject to arbitrary eviction whenever the predators-DBA-government decide they want your land.
BTW, the only state where you can easily get allodial title is Nevada. You must not have a mortgage and the land must be outside any city or town. With greater effort it seems you can also get allodial title in Texas... and maybe Alaska.
+10^4096
Why can't people understand the obvious?
"Why can't people understand the obvious?"
Simply because their peace of mind and happiness are reliant on their lack of understanding.
Is this a hiccup or a heart attack? Certainly feels more like the latter, especially if your bitcoins are tied up in Mt. Gox.
But disruptive technologies have a way of powering through situations like this. There were lots and lots of microcomputer makers that went bust before and after the PC standard emerged (and even Apple, which survived and thrived entirely outside the realm of the PC).
I can't say for sure that bitcoin (or even some undreamt-of successor) will be like that. But I wouldn't bet against it.
Bitcoin will survive and prosper. The sure sign of that is the overwhelming number of Bitcoin haters on this site. The vast majority of people never create wealth nor do they have the foresight to see the changes that are coming until they are run over and wondering what happened.
Bitcoin has never been broken. MtGox needed to go away. It was an fluke they survived this far.
I and my fellow leaders are buying all the Bitcoin we can while they are cheap. The followers on here will weep when we are vacationing with our bevy of beauties on the beach and they are packing groceries for grandma.
A deep, heartfelt thanks for all of you slaves for allowing me to obtain more Bitcoin at a reasonable price.
Five paper rectangles shall be granted to you all.
The fact that you see BitCoin ownership as a profit opportunity proves it is an "invalid medium of exchange" in your own mind. If you can't "vacation with your bevy of beauties" with the dollars you exchange for BitCoins today, you won't be able to do it when you complete the round trip. Your only chance is to get the resorts and beauties to take BitCoins for their services. If they're paying attention, they won't do that. They would know that BitCoins stand for "wasted electrical energy" ... not "promises to complete trades".
Look lady, I'm not sure what crawled up your skirt, but I think you need to get back in the kitchen and make me a sammich. 'Wasted electrical energy'? WTF? Are serious? Wasted Energy? How about wasted energy for creating a multitude of things? How about wasted energy for digging up gold? How about wasted energy for printing those paper rectangles with pictures of dead guys drawn on them? How about wasted energy to keep the peasants fed and clothed? Wasted energy to broadcast that bullshit CNN and government sponsored programming to your house?
You do realize that this is just the infancy of Bitcoin, and yet, you can travel the world with nothing but Bitcoin to be used to pay for everything from air travel to lodging and food. This, my friend, is just starting. You will see. This is too revolutionary of an invention to go away. It will be a thrilling ride for sure, but ultimately, the utility and advantages will win in the end.
I shall grant you 5 paper rectangles with pictures of dead guys drawn upon them! Please enjoy them at a government-approved store that I control.
And...it's gone. All of bitcoin just died.
Finally, ...for 20th time.
bcking go back to your mom's basement. You haven't a clue how to make money. Cash in your 100 bitcoins and put that paper hat back on in make someone a hamburger.
I hope you realize that most people you call "bitcoin haters" here in ZH are about 90% positive about bitcoin, but don't like ONE aspect of bitcoin - that lack of actual intrinsic value.
The fact that you SPEND time, effort, money (or electricity) to create bitcoin is only half a solution, and unfortunately is the wrong half at that. The problem is, the process is not reversible... the end result has no intrinsic value, even if making them does require the expenditure of time, effort and resources. You cannot convert the bitcoin back into the electricity that created it. If you could, most of us you call "bitcoin haters" would be "bitcoin adopters", because then bitcoin would be almost perfect.
What I'm saying is, most of us here in ZH who considered bitcoin hopefully, love the idea of "trade" without fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve debt-bits or debt-paper, and were thus very receptive to the idea of bitcoin. Only after long hard personal reflection did we decide not to participate - but still, we wish you the best of luck. We rather bitcoin advocates have good results than predators-DBA-centralbanks.
However, you should try to understand why we decided not to risk our savings on bitcoin. To us (but not you), the lack of real, physical utility matters. We want our savings in a form that has utility as well as not created by or benefiting human predators.
That's why we can wish you well, but not participate. And that's too bad, because like I said, the bitcoin approach has a LOT of great features, and pretty much only lacks one feature we consider absolutely crucial. Yes, we also freely admit and understand that the feature we want (a real, physical, valuable good) has drawbacks too. It is [perhaps] easier to steal than bitcoin, for example. We also freely admit that trying to create something like bitcoin that is backed by gold has the same problems as gold --- the physical gold must be stored somewhere (so the bitgold units could be exchanged for the physical gold that backs them), but that just creates targets for the predators to steal all the gold that backs the bitgold units. And even if that could be solved by storing the gold in (say) Singapore or somewhere where the predators-that-be are positive towards gold and financial liberty, that can change (and predators-DBA-other-governments might invade simply to support the fiat-bankster system).
This is why it seems like "real, physical gold" is better than the best "bitgold" we could possibly invent. The advantage of "real, physical gold" versus "bitgold" is... the very fact that it is scattered all around the world in little bits and pieces (coins and wafers). And as a consequence, the predators-that-be have no practical way to steal it, or dominate it. Though sure, they can make life a pain in the butt by deeming physical gold to be "illegal" in certain locations... at which point we'll either "spend it elsewhere" or save silver, platinum, palladium or any of dozens of other durable physical goods. Even the most delusional predators-that-be aren't stupid enough to attempt to make the entire freaking periodic table "illegal".
So, we admit that even our pet gold (and other precious metals) have potential drawbacks. Frankly, the wisest form to hold wealth is productive machinery that can forever convert raw materials into real, physical, valuable, utilitarian goods. However, for those folks who prefer to save in some simple form, we prefer gold and other precious metals [or materials].
Incidentally, we share your attitude about fiat paper lovers --- they are sure to get continuously screwed as time passes. And given how obvious is the corruption of the fiat system today, a reasonable person could [almost] feel like they deserve what they get.
Bitcoin and the like is not the final answer. But as far as we're concerned, you are free and welcome to convert your savings into computer bits or anything else you wish. Good luck with that.
Ann,
the worst part is that BTC is not liquid
At no time in their history did MT-GOX ever let people out, or get their money back, MT-GOX was always ran like a PONZI scam where they took in new money and that was used to give back peanuts to people who wanted out.
So long as new suckers came to the show it surivived, in the past 3 months of course new idiots quit buying BTC, so it imploded,
But even a year ago MT-GOX only allowed $1k/day, or $50k/month out and even that was hard to get OUT, ..
Essentially BTC was NEVER liquid, and thus it was NEVER real money, or real wealth.
Lastly, like the GUY said BTC can't be used for collateral, imagine that, because it had no intrinisic value.
BTC will be forgotten and a year on ZH folks will deny ever hearing of it, just like beanie babys and cabbage patch dolls.
*
Is p2p crypto-currency a good idea? Yes, but not when it comes from the NSA, I would prefer it to come from Stalin, Mao, or PUTIN, rather than GS or JPM.
Well, as someone who never bought into bitcoin, I have no idea which people and companies related to bitcoin were honest and which were scam artists. Since scam artists infect every aspect of life, I don't reject bitcoin just because a couple operators are corrupt. So my comments were 100% about bitcoin and crypto-currencies in general, not specific to these yokels, and not even specific to bitcoin.
I totally agree that any of us with brains and ethics will (and must) avoid anything promoted or operated by predators-that-be, whether DBA "government" or "corporation" or even "individual".
I would LOVE to believe the honest, ethical beings of earth could create some kind of crypto-currency that did not require backing by real, physical, valuable, utilitarian goods, because that would solve the one hassle with precious metals. But like I said, any "money" or "currency" that is not a real, physical good just can't work in any widespread way given the existence, much less dominance of the human predators-that-be and predator-class.
Can individuals who know each other extremely well keep track of who owes who how much with some kind of virtual "currency"? For a while, yes. But eventually one of them (or one of their family or employees) will take advantage of the trust and take advantage of both of them.
Earlier in my career I was involved in collaborative ventures with people who had VASTLY more to gain by continuing to be trustworthy and collaborate... but simply could not resist to grab and run when they had an opportunity to steal and benefit by immediate theft, even though that destroyed their long term potential. This taught me about human nature - you can't even trust most humans to be honest when being honest benefits them enormously. Do exceptions exist? Certainly. But not nearly enough. And believe me, you can't always recognize those who are weak or dishonest in advance. I believe some of them were 100% convinced in their own mind they would be honest... until they weren't.
The main problem is human beings.
And like you say, the human beings DBA GoldmanShafts, JPMorons and USSA are the worst (and most dangerous) predators ever. Though I wouldn't trust anything that had anything to do with any of their comrades either.
I also agree that bitcoin (and probably all crypto-currencies) will come to be compared with tulips and other fads and manias. I believe, given the nature of humans, that the only viable means of trade is trade of real goods for real goods (whether precious metals are one of the goods or not).
All that computer power spent solving worthless problems. Seems like such a waste to me. If only it could have been harnessed in a meaningful way.
Wait! all those high powered video cards could still be melted down for the gold content.
So this is what happens when the underlying instrument retains value but the exchange on which it's priced is rejected, creating the illusion of lower prices for the underlying. Kind of like what's been going on in Comex gold/silver, no?
a KINGDOM for my Quatloos jailed in MtQox!!
Quatloos the f&cking Hope Diamond vs Bitcon
So When they payout Mt. Gox will pay@ their listed price which is 20 percent of the going rate. Seems about right to me.
20% of what?
The lawyers last week said to file claims in USD early.
BTC will go to zero, and if you get 20% of zero how much is that?
Best off is-was to have an early claim in the form of a lawsuit and name the price you paid in CASH, and demand that amount be returned in CASH. Hire the best BITCOIN FUCKER lawyer you can find "CALL SAUL"
MT-GOX is 80% of BITCOIN, the ENTIRE bitcoin world will go down in flames now.
Oh well, there is always ebay, or swap meets for beanie babies......
is there somewhere I can get a list of all those pumping, pimping, $1000+ btc?
I need it for the trials.
What are you talking about lady?
Ouch, what a come back; lol, that's the best you can do? and you were trying so hard in your own limited way.
I'm hard alright, and it's not because I have to take those little blue pills that you depend upon to 'get it up'. Bitcoin makes me hard like a rock. My ways may seem 'limited' to the feeble-minded who are unable to see the value in things such as Bitcoin, but eventually you will use it as well. Within a few year's time it will be part of the dailiy fabric of transactions on and off the internet. I'm still amazed why you despise it so much, but this just shows the depth of the brainwashing you have received from my evil brothers in USA government. You're a strong, yet stupid peasant. Don't forget to wipe that brown stuff off your mouth after kissing your master's ass.
You will be fed to the dogs one way or another. Five paper rectangles shall be granted to you. Spend them wisely, but only at the stores that I allow you to spend them at.
Seriously, can we assume some kind of permanent health impact on longs? I'd hate to think all they lost was money. I mean , Darwin and all.
Why are you even using a computer. You can't really hold the bits and bytes that create the posting, so therefore it doesn't exist. Kind of like the bank where you keep your paper rectangles. You understand, my half-witted friend, that those paper rectangles themselves aren't really in the bank either, don't you? Or do you? Ultimately, it's all just bits and bytes, as Bitcoin is bits and bytes. You're just too brainwashed by my USA government friends to understand the dramatic change that is underway. Please don't buy Bitcoin. Leave it to us thinkers and leaders. A leader is not a leader without followers, and you, my numbskulled peasant, are a follower.
Remember not to put the eggs on the bottom this time boy. I want them in a separate grocery bag.
yeah but those rectangles are backed by white people.
your btc is backed by vermin
I see the humor in your racism, but I will be laughing while my dogs feast upon your liver. And my bitcoins will be in the six and seven figures while you are cashing in your Obama bucks for Top Ramen.
lol, glad it didn't escape ya. now go back to eating dog
You have it wrong, lady, the dogs shall feast upon you!
Be sure to spend your paper rectangles only where instructed and report all transactions to the authorities. Please double bag my groceries next time as well young lady.
"Be sure to spend your paper rectangles only where instructed and report all transactions to the authorities."
Hey rocket sientist, whoops sorry leader. This just shows how intellectually bankrupt you are. Do you even understand what Mt or any of the echanges are? Let me educate you. What do you call an institution that you deposit currency or pixydust in, and expect to withdraw it at a later date? Its a BANK. So your peer to peer currency is controled by bankers. How is that any different than the current banking system? Mt is having a banking holiday as we speak. Try a withdraw right now. So the only difference is that BTC cant be mass produced, yet. It has no more protection from big brother than any other etransaction. Do you really believe the NAS is not tracking all BTC transactions? It was a good idea theory. But in reality it is a flop. And as for your dog a little kibble and it will be mine.
Oh and the cant be mass produced I mentioned. It seems that one of the reasons for MT's banking holiday is they sold the BTC on deposit. And now dont have enough to cover any deposits that want withdrawn. Can you say leased out. No diferent than any BANK in the world leasing out gold. Ask the Germans how thats working out. So please tell me again how much better this scam is.
I do feel sorry for you my intellectually challenged friend. I have nothing against people with Down's syndrome such as yourself, however, if anyone purchases their Bitcoins through any of these exchanges, they deserve to lose their money. It's quite simple to purchase your Bitcoin 'out of the system' which is what Kim Jong Un does every week. Who in their right mind purchases through these places? WTF? You clearly know nothing of BTC. It can't be mass produced numskull. Did you bother to even read the documentation and understand how it works, or do you always just get your information spoon-fed to you by your mom?
The sheep have a simplistic thought process and you are a good sheep. Someday when your vagina has fully developed, you might be able to walk AND chew gum at the same time.
Five paper rectangles shall be granted to you! I will let you know where I will allow you to spend. Thank you for being a good slave.
Wow just like a simpleton to make personal attacks. Learn to read I said its not yet mass produced. You clearly have no understanding of what is possible with technology. so keep buying BTC off grid LOL. Thanks for showing all how much of a midget you really are.
"Leave it to us thinkers and leaders"
OK ha,ha,ha,ha
Boy did I underestimate how stupid all of you Bitcoin haters are. I'm gonna need more dogs to clean this mess up.
now that's a brilliant PR method to get more to buy in to a fledging virtual product:
YOUR TEAM IS STUPID! MY TEAM IS SMART!
COME OVER TO MY TEAM AND BE SMARTER!
genius dood
Foney should at the very least host this POST 24/7 for the rest of his life.
Again, please, someone help me understand:
How is the shitcoin still trading for $550??
lemme guess, no shortage of assholes, + the twinkevoss twins prop
Please, I beg of you, do not buy my bitcoins. Leave them for the forward-thinkers who know and understand value and technology. Please stick to using what you are instructed to use by the authorities. They have your best interests at heart.
Don't forget to skip and sing when they guide you to the ovens to incinerate your entire familiy or send you to the 'showers' to fill your lungs with Zyklon B. Breath deeply as your masters instruct you to do.