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Things That Make You Go Hmmm... Like "Anti-Gold Idiots"

Tyler Durden's picture


This next paragraph contains what Grant Williams believes is the fundamental principle of investing in gold and silver, which so few people genuinely understand — despite the multitudes of commentators expending countless thousands of words.

"So these anti-gold idiots are just that, idiots, or else they have the memory of a goldfish, because currencies come and currencies go, as sure as night follows day. It is the natural order of things. And as you can see, it's not about trading gold to get rich or getting long gold or buying one by two call spreads or getting fancy, it literally is about protecting yourself in the end. It's not like Williams got rich. He just stayed rich. Everyone else got poor."

It's not like Williams got rich. He just stayed rich. Everyone else got poor.

That's it. Right there.


If you talk to most people in the West about gold, they have no idea about the price or its recent direction. Narrow your sample audience down to those with a passing interest in finance, and they will likely know that gold is an awful investment whose price only goes down. (Had we conducted this little survey in 2011, the results would have been different, but that only illustrates the point.)

Ask a random group of people in the East about gold, however, and the conversation is completely different.

In this part of the world, people talk about how much gold they (or their parents or their grandparents) own. They will tell you stories of the first time they handled a gold coin (usually as a child), and they will know the price but not have much of an opinion on how good or bad gold's performance has been — it will be far less relevant to them. They just know that you don't trade gold; you own it.

To further illustrate this point, let's talk about our old friends the world's central banks.

The chart showing the 25 largest central bank holders of the world's gold looks like this:

If we take a look at the changes in those holdings between 2008 and 2013, an interesting phenomenon emerges: central banks in the East, as their reserves have grown, have been accumulating gold:

Since 2008, the central banks of China, Russia, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, and the Philippines have increased their gold holdings on average by 119.67%.


Central banks continually rubbish gold as a worthless asset class because it constricts their ability to produce money at the push of a button. Not only that, but it offers their citizens the means to reduce their reliance upon a nation's fiat currency — one has only to look at the goings-on in India last year to see what THAT looks like.

Deep down, though, central bankers know what gold is for and why you hold it. They know.

In 1999, a group of central banks came together through the Washington Agreement on Gold to jointly manage sales of the precious metal.


The Washington Agreement worked when central banks were selling their gold because there were always buyers, at lower and lower prices — those were the investors soaking up the bullion.

NOW we have a bunch of central banks aggressively trying to BUY gold; and what they're finding (unsurprisingly) is that the investors aren't sellers, so the only people left from whom to acquire gold are the traders — and they have a very limited supply of actual metal

When Western central bankers rubbish gold as a "barbarous relic" or, as in the case of Ben Bernanke shortly before he started his job at The Brookings Institution left office in January, admit to a complete lack of understanding of it, does it not strike you as strange that, having accumulated significant stockpiles of gold over the years, they aren't in a hurry to swap any of it for paper money (well, with the notable exception perhaps of the United Kingdom, thanks to the antics of Gordon Brown, King of the Idiot Chancellors)?

It shouldn't.

Gold is held by Western central banks for exactly the same reason individuals ought to hold it: protection.

Central banks are accumulating gold because it cannot go BANG! like fiat currencies do.

Individuals should be doing the same — not being sidetracked by the distractions.

It's not about price. The story Jared shared with us demonstrates that beyond any doubt.

If you own gold, it will do all the heavy lifting for you when the time comes

And that's where Grant Williams gets really deep in his latest excellent letter...



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Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:27 | 4460173 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Updated for Yellen -- Barber-less relic.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4460221 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Gold trolls.  We call them gold trolls.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:56 | 4460267 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Great start to this piece, and he sorta piddled it away.  Die Kinder need to understand this.

Holding gold and silver will not make you rich.  Even in hyper inflation they will hold relative value with other durable goods and real assets.

The wipe out of debt will make some feel rich, and may well be a useful reset, as the Tylers often suggest.  Here's a salient example.  There are often tales about someone buying a whole city block in Germany for one gold coin.  Did it happen?  Maybe, but not because of inflation.  Real estate should rise with gold and silver.  If someone wants or needs to get out of Dodge immediately, then ready money talks, but remember, Weimar was way before Der Feurer, so I'm a skeptic.

Logic, mein leibshens, it's not just for breakfast anymore.


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:03 | 4460313 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

you're right and silver will not make you rich but holding real estate will? hehehehehe......I guess that may be just what your definition of "real estate" is? and as usual your timing........your ability to get rich in real estate or gold or silver or paper of any type depends on this particular environment and at this particular time, I think I'll take my chances with gold and silver bullion.......

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:15 | 4460350 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes but,

  real estate usually comes with a mortgage, which WILL get wiped out.  As you say, it's all timing.  It makes a lot of sense to borrow to buy silver, unless the depression hits full force before the inflation.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:13 | 4460611 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I wouldn't bank on mortgages getting wiped out.  More than likely the banks will not take the hit.  When there is a revaluation of the currrency, they re-adjust existing mortgages into the new currency.  Which means your mortgage increases by same factor of the devaluation of the currency.  Gold should increase by a greater factor but the timing may be off and you could find yourself underwater and selling your gold prematurely.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:25 | 4460662 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

It is a no win situation. If chaos ensues, gold will be worthless. Water and food will be currency. All of this arguement is pointless and meant to enrich someone. Get free bitcoins from and sell them on a high. Buy some water, MREs and bullets.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 01:29 | 4460922 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yes, but Bitcoins don't work when you need a tangible for the barter of water and food; water and food spoil, Gold and Silver don't.

"...or else they have the memory of a goldfish, because currencies come and currencies go, as sure as night follows day...."

And food and water and bullets and MRE's come and go as well, it's about penultimate non-perishable tangible mediums of exchange.

That's the point.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 01:35 | 4460937 The Vineyard
The Vineyard's picture

Gold has no future.  Nor does silver.  Invest in flame throwers and pumpkin pie.  Bitches.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 08:41 | 4461321 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture



You would be correct about real estate vs gold, all else being equal.

However, when the financial system blows up and people can no longer get loans, you will see real estate prices tank because if they don't then quite simply, no one will be able to buy real estate. 

If you have real money though, and bide your time, you should be able to scoop up some insane deals compared to the previous valuations with free credit priced into them.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 18:15 | 4463392 fiatmasochist
fiatmasochist's picture

awesome blog...great writing, unique analysis.........


Fri, 02/21/2014 - 05:41 | 4461151 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

While you morons are scurrying to your bunkers, I'ma be rounding me up a stable of bitches.  Cuz bitches are gonna be the commodity of the future, bitches.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 15:09 | 4462709 sixbilliondollarman
sixbilliondollarman's picture

Naw, I think I'll stick to PMs & FMJ lead...the flamethower is good idea after your pumpkin pie stash is discovered hopefully within a few hours while without electricty [so it's still edible to the mauraders]...other than the entire block of "any neighborhood" south of 8 mile road  in downtown Detroit on Holloween ...will be where your house is located...all gone. No contructive comments & shitty blogs get scrutinized by voters I see.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:00 | 4503050 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

aw, but I don't like pumpkin pie. Apple?

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:48 | 4460981 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

I dispair reading the same claptrap.

What are you thinking? Of course gold in itelf is worthless if you have nothing to eat or drink, except that you might barter more successfully than you could with fiat paper.

What are you trying to say? That you can eat paper money or that you should save in water and ham??

Bticoin? Idiot.!



What is the purpose of your writing?

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 03:32 | 4461075 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

Bitcoin is gold for the Y generation. But what will be left of that gen if there's a general shortage of power after the shtf? Nothing, their PCs and mobiles will be useless. 

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:00 | 4460976 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm sorry, but NEVER (and it's quite rare that I use that word) take out a contract with the intent of not fulfilling it.  I don't care how fucked up the other party is.

That said, I have a slight angle on this, and that's that I opted to keep open the possibility of the mortgage collector not showing up.  I opted to take advantage of low interest rates so that I didn't have to deplete more of my "boating" funds.  I will make every payment that I am obligated to make, and should that ever so slight possibility of no mortgage collector showing up occur then I'm up.  I did NOT enter into the contract with the intention or expectation of it being terminated early, I only knew that it was a remote possibility.

For what it's worh, I've done pretty well for having little wealth.  Sold at the top of the market.  Leveraged my cash to buy real property (many acres), Ag land, with a low-interest mortgage.  Meanwhile, "boating" funds have gone up: the alternative would have had me cash them in only to repurchase at a higher cost later, and, um, that's not how you look to do things.  And in regards to my property (which is holding its value), unlike other "investments" (or wealth protections), it is capable of earning money no matter its valuation.  In the future I'll likely have more ability to acquire silver from you than you from me :-) (but nowhere in this equation is all my hard work, which, sadly, I'm failing to see others suggest as a means of sustaining themselves in the future- kind of TPTB-ish)

As you say, timing is key.  I recall many years ago some Morman who went out and rang up all sort of debt as he was sure that "the end was near" and he wouldn't have to repay.  Jail.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:04 | 4460315 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

It may not be enough to make a person rich but it will give a great oppurtunity to buy other goods and assets come the reset of the monetary system that is fast approaching.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 01:51 | 4460968 natronic
natronic's picture

I don't think it's that fast approaching I still think we are 5 - 7 years from a reset.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:46 | 4461703 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Five years is not fast approaching?  What is your concept of time?  If you were told you have 5-7 years to live, you would think that quite abbreviated, methinks.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:14 | 4461002 Seer
Seer's picture

Good advice.

I'd already exchanged poker chips for Ag land and a modest amount of equipment/tools.  Have ample water, shelter and, am working on the food part (and for that food part to generate revenue).  And I was never "wealthy."

It's all about acquiring things that will enable you to see more days on this planet.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 21:09 | 4478325 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

in comfort, not like The Road.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:10 | 4460336 IPA
IPA's picture

I think you could buy several blocks in Detroit for an oz of gold right now. 

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 06:59 | 4461215 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

True. But the cost people are expected to pay in the US to keep their home (sorry, rental) - through property taxes - is a joke. Where else on earth could you buy a block for less than it costs to pay the powers that be each year for the privillage of keeping it? Infact, where else can the government take your house for not paying paying a yearly tax on something you bought and own outright (Don't shoot me, I'm sure there are heaps, just none spring to mind).

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:47 | 4461706 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

you could, but you still wouldn't own them... think about it

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:02 | 4460760 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture




Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:26 | 4460802 oooBooo
oooBooo's picture

The problem is that people get desperate for pressing needs like food when wage inflation can't keep up with price inflation. So even in an inflationary environment they may let things go for cheap. 

The best hyper inflation assets are probably storable food and booze. Especially booze. Whiskey, wine, anything really. Gold and silver are good for the far side of the reset. In the middle there may be few buyers or many. Depends on how fast wages keep up with price inflation. If wages can kind of keep up people will seek to dump their money for gold and silver as soon as they get it. If the wages don't then what they get will go for food, fuel, anything needed to survive. 




Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:22 | 4461237 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

"The problem is that people get desperate for pressing needs like food" +1

I think when things get really bad this will be the issue and not water (there are countless ways to get water, even in the desert). The sad things is that there's an abundance of natural food out there that people have no idea about. Yes, I'm talking about eating ants that are almost as sweet as honey and also the grubs that taste like... well... grubs. A lot isn't palatable to our western tastes, but hey the French made snails trendy - maybe the Australian Aboriginals should get some marketing advice from them ;)

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 03:14 | 4461060 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

I don't want to get rich by holding gold --- I just don't want to have to be eating dog for for breakfast, lunch and dinner --- like the clowns who cling to their stocks, bonds, properties and cash --- when it is OBVIOUS that all of those will be worthless when the SHTF

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 11:26 | 4461848 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

all you need to know about anti real money establishment...

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 16:51 | 4463047 DerdyBulls
DerdyBulls's picture


Real estate should rise with gold and silver. 

And "Real estate prices always go up..." Sorry. Is there a correlation between inflation and interest rates? Aggregate demand for real estate is driven by interest rates and incomes. Income does not keep up in significant inflationary environments. When the price of capital increases, the less of it is demanded. While I think it's a good idea to own real estate as a store of value and income production I would never own it with the notion that appreciation is a constant, especially in inflationary times. And to classify it with PMs seems odd. PM prices are driven by fear levels predominantly.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:46 | 4460303 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

"Anti-Gold Idiot" is a redundancy.  


Gold & silver are real money.  Period.  It may take a little bit of palm-of-hand-to-chin-and-eyes-to-ceiling gazing for some to grasp this simple concept.


Whatever one may think or feel regarding "what to do" in this unnatural economic and financial malaise... rest assured that if you hold any kind of hard asset, you - as a wisened ant - will be much better off than your naive neighbor grasshopper.  They will dance and sing to the tune of fiat counterfeit "assets" until the cows come home, but in the end... they will be left out in the cold.


Bachus Aesopus

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:50 | 4460846 Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture

cnbc trolls

clumpus-a real asshole

bloody stump man


I swear they work for cnbc...

They call anyone who likes gold Moon howlers.

Then they report/flag your posts to get you kicked off...

Serious Assholes!


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:55 | 4460277 superflex
superflex's picture

Greek lightning

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:05 | 4461493 Australian Economist
Australian Economist's picture

It's spelt 'Guano'

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:01 | 4460299 deflator
deflator's picture


Updated for Yellen -- Barber-less relic.

He needs lining up.


Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:32 | 4460817 Stoploss
Fri, 02/21/2014 - 03:56 | 4461090 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

They should update the charts to reflect who actually holds the gold.  Germany has a claim on some gold that is held in US vaults, but they seem to have a hard time getting it back.  Possession is 9/10, they say.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:28 | 4460176 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

What's Israel's gold holding?

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:38 | 4460212 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

Israel holds it all [by way of the 'Samson option']

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:43 | 4460232 Vuke
Vuke's picture

>>What's Israel's gold holding?<<


Whatever the U.S. can supply.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:01 | 4460755 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

Joke #1, that chart about gold holdings is based upon what? The reports of central banks? 

Joke #2, the mossad already took all the gold under WTC7 (in black GMC's about an hour before the 'attack'

Joke #3 they'll be getting the rest smuggled in up the ass of american politicians


Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:30 | 4461243 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Interesting. Linking jokes one and two, did the US gov actually report a reduction in holding? I mean we all know they are full of shit anyway having hypothicated the gold several times over, but here is something concrete that was there one day and 'gone' the next. Did it show in official reports?

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:50 | 4460252 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:28 | 4460177 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Turkey and Portugal have more gold than the UK?!?!

They were an empire just 100 years ago. My god that place has gone to hell.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:36 | 4460206 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Brown sold off all of their gold. Maybe he was afraid England might capsize

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4460224 Silver Bullet
Silver Bullet's picture

Yeah, Brit's are literally fighting to death over scraps of food in London. Oh, what will they ever do without pieces of metal.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:00 | 4460297 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Think "Asset Allocation":  Water, Food, Shelter, Cash, Tools, Meds... Gold, Paper Assets (bonds, stocks).

Given that most Brits earn just enough to get by and vacation in poor Spain/Portugal, I can see that they've got little left for gold.  Note that life changes significantly for 90%, when a country is no longer an empire.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:30 | 4460187 Sardonicus
Sardonicus's picture

Meanwhile shit coin is heading through the 80's at Mt Gocksucker

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 05:19 | 4461135 FinalEvent
FinalEvent's picture

So what's your point?

Bitcoin being shit?
Or Gox being shit?


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:27 | 4475996 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Ironically today the spread on localbtc was LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL bitcoin price.
Usually it's massive, like 500 to 1500 or 500 to 2000. I'm seeing high 925 low 493.7, close 638.1 at 20:26 EST
For whatever reason the MtGox chart was showing 101.6 as the low, but it's still pretty bad.
50 is just around the corner and then 5 and then 0.5.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:35 | 4460201 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Nancy Grace: "Whiy are these fool buyin' all o' that boool-yawn?"

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:10 | 4460335 deflator
deflator's picture

rhetorical questionin' bitchez killz me.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:05 | 4460983 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

All you need to know about Nancy Grace...

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 08:40 | 4461325 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

i hate that bitch

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:26 | 4475990 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

But she's got GREAT dieting advice.
nancy grace vs Joe Rogan

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:38 | 4460207 BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

Only one thing to say about this article: AMEN!!!!

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:39 | 4460213 monad
monad's picture

Gold bitchez

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4460228 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Agreed.  Gold bitchez.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:56 | 4460280 superflex
superflex's picture

We've got a down arrow monkey.

Gold Bitchez

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:19 | 4460796 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Must be pornstar trolloling his bitshit, er coin, or ta su ki aki trolloling, ah well some lil spot in the middle east:-)

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:57 | 4460283 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Those down arrows..[sigh]...bitchez just don't get it.


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:22 | 4460654 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Up arrows to the gold fishez!

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 14:04 | 4462474 Lionhearted
Lionhearted's picture

Precious Metals bitchez.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4460226 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Hold. No trade.

No counter party a holder. Death to the FED.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4460227 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Exactly, if you're buying gold for any other reason besides insurance, then you're buying it for all the wrong reasons.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:44 | 4460236 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I'm buying it because I think it will make me a shit tonne of money.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:46 | 4460246 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If you own gold then you already own money.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:59 | 4460294 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

The money that no one else knows about.  

Imagine when they do....

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 01:46 | 4460952 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

"I'm buying it because I think it will make me a shit tonne of money."
By not holding it, rich people are sure to lose a shit tonne of money.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:00 | 4460298 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes Doc, why is it so hard to explain this?  Ammo won't make you rich  Being insured by Smith & Wesson is great protection.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:26 | 4460397 D-2
D-2's picture

Analogy of the day.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:01 | 4460300 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Whenever these conversations of real money vs a currency come up, I always think of the same thing.

A simple thing really, known by many at one time, forgotten by most now:

Ilsa: A franc for your thoughts.
Rick: In America they'd bring only a penny, and, huh, I guess that's about all they're worth.

Understood by only a few ;-)

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:16 | 4460322 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

This reminded me of you nmewn.

Bumper sticker on an electrican's van:

  The government is NOT your baby daddy.

Unfortunately, it is, but that can be cured;)'

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:17 | 4460355 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...its a lot like ignorance vs stupidity ain't it?

Ignorance can be cured ;-)

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:13 | 4460348 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


I noticed last year that Henry Kinssinger and Hank Paulson travelled together to China and meet the new President Mr Xi Jinping on the 24th of April.

Looking back to the 1970s we know that it was Henry Kissinger who negotiated with the Saudis to create the Petrodollar after President Nixon closed the gold window in August of 1971.

It is interesting to note that gold started its big move lower around the 10th of April and then two weeks later Kissinger and Paulson (former Goldman CEO and for U.S. treasury sec) show up in Beijing to meet the new President.

I remember at the time reading about this meeting but the Western media did not publicise that much. I thought it odd that these two heavyweights in American finance and politics went together to China to meet the new President.

My point is that it could have been these two who negotiated with the Chinese government and probably reassured President Xi that the price of gold would be driven lower so they could accumulate as much gold as possible.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:24 | 4460385 nmewn
nmewn's picture

DP, I'm under no illusions of what all (meaning any) government will do to maintain their power base along with a docile class of serfs who will do their bidding.

This is where we have always agreed.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:58 | 4460556 logicalman
logicalman's picture

It's important to understand that the so called elites in all countries are basically the same greedy psychopaths and that the guy in the street in all these counries are basically the same, mostly honest, straight forward folk that just want to get on with their lives and make an honest living.

Let's start the REAL war.

The balance of power is hugely on the side of Joe Public as soon as Joe wakes up.

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 20:19 | 4473056 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Gonna be a while before Joe Sixpack, Wei Too Poor & Yusef bin Robbedblind finally figure out they're on the same team, and the kings are on the other.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:27 | 4460393 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

China remembers the mongol hoardes riding off with their precious metals.  They have been taking back that gold pile and then some.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:50 | 4460516 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

Mongol hordes! What about the Japanese prior to WWII? Read "Yamashita's Gold" to see the efficiency of modern pillagers. They even brought in the Yakuza so they could shake down the Triads for their gold & jewels. Hirohito was so meticulas that he sent a team of accountants to tally it all up. I would love to know where it all went. I suspect that much has been used for payoffs and blackops, much dumped in the markets to support fiat and much hidden in private cellars.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:02 | 4460568 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

All wars have been made for land, oil, and gold. 

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:11 | 4460995 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

And, one war was fought for Helen...

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:31 | 4460812 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Interesting point.  But it could also be that they were explaining  the power that comes to a fiat economy (like the US and China) when they control the price of Gold.

This is the question that keeps me up at night:  Why would China act any different than the US Fed after it is accepted as a world currency.

Maybe Kissinger and the worthless Paulson were explaning how the manipulation is done....

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:13 | 4460999 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Or, they could have been begging for asylum after TSHTF!

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 05:21 | 4461136 FinalEvent
FinalEvent's picture

I'm glad I can buy your gold with my worthless money.

Point is that few see that you don't want to trade 1oz gold for 1.000.000USD

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 20:19 | 4473053 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

But gold IS money, how can that money MAKE money?
paper is just debt notes,  it isn't money.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:44 | 4460237 gann1212
gann1212's picture

the party with gold is just about to get started  imho. as the market tops and people realize that gubmints are not their friends the metals will soar. we are about to see something we have never seen in our lifetimes ha ha. starting time hmm about one week

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:09 | 4460326 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Started?  You must not have been buying during the crash of '08.  It's doubled since then and if you tarded the markets right you could have made the more.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:45 | 4460239 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Brown likely sold his physical to keep the English banks one could be as stupid as he appeared to be durring 'Brown's Bottom'.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:50 | 4460258 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

If any ZH'ers live around St Louis, might want to take note of the low flying helicopters around Feb. 24:


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:00 | 4460295 superflex
superflex's picture

SE Missouri is a giant metal belt.  Hydrothermally altered rock full of lead, iron, copper and zinc.

Not so sure about the St Loius area though.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:32 | 4460432 seek
seek's picture

Great way to find any buried caches of significant size... ground penetrating radar that looks 100s of feet deep.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 08:23 | 4461300 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Rothschild Inc. extracting their last pound of flesh from Amerika before they turn it into Kiev.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:57 | 4460281 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Yes. Protection for / from the zombie apocalypse. I've been getting ready and feel I've laid down a decent base. In fact, have believed for some time that we should not fear the crunch--the crunch is the solution.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:57 | 4460284 Hughing
Hughing's picture

Paper money is here to stay, like a zombie virus. It is a paper planet now. It will be treated like timber or crops for awhile and then, well, paper is a jealous, treacherous, bitch and will take gold and every similar option out.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 21:58 | 4460290 BudFox2012
BudFox2012's picture

I'm not so sure this time.  This time it might be wise to invest in 7.62 x 39 or <insert favorite calibers(s) here>

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:06 | 4460320 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Paper bugz...

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:09 | 4460330 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

What is it about gold?  I have told every one of my friends that they should buy a few gold coins for insurance.  99% sneer at the thought as absolutely ridiculous.  1% say they just can't scrape the money together (even though they own half a dozen pieces of property).  So what is it?  Why does the name gold evoke such negaitve feelings?


Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:24 | 4460386 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

I remember hearing some CNBC wank say "I don't know anyone that owns gold." They are all potential future buyers, there are no sellers.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:15 | 4460623 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Some people do not feel worthy of its presence.  Sarte's masochism if you will.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:24 | 4460388 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Most people think what they are told to think, sadly.  Some few are able to think on their own.  More get told what to think by them, and thus come to the right conclusion without knowing WHY it is right.

Amazing that we are able to progress as a race at all.

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 19:40 | 4472886 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

And yet, you're in bitcoins - only reiterating the nonsense.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 22:32 | 4460412 deflator
deflator's picture

The past 150 years of persistent economic growth is an anomoly(from Krugmans Nobel prize winning book) in contrast to the rest of human civilization. There isn't even a straight uninterrupted decades worth of persistent economic growth to be found anywhere else in the history of human civilization. Why now? Krugman says the past 150 years of uninterrupted with barely a blip on the chart of straight lower left to upper right persistent economic growth is entirely attributable to our greater understanding of economics. According to Krugman, creating money by decree is and will always be reponsible for more energy(your labor is energy btw) and technology that consumes it.

 The past 150 years of persistent economic growth has a longer lifespan than any living human. This is the short answer to your question. The long answer is the past 150 years of persistent economic growth is entirely attributable to the past 150 years of growth in crude oil, coal and natural gas and the surplusses of energy derived from them and the technology that consumes them.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:58 | 4461048 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I think it takes a knack to be into PMs.

For me, it was a grandfather who left to me old US Au and Ag coins. As a kid, I was fascinated by them. As I grew older, he explained to me what it was, and what it was for. My dad accumulated PMs and I of course, was accumulating any kind of numismatic item I could lay my hands on. I remember collecting Ag US coins after 1964, as a 10-yr old kid. Before my mom died she kept giving me Au she had stashed, apparently. Her family had lost everything during the civil war, but held on to all their PMs as possible. One cousin restored the old (small) plantation our ancestor had built. Guess what he found? Yep.

Anyway, for whatever reason, the family I came from had a quiet, private appreciation for the metals. It has to go back to our ancestor in the 1860s.

I can remember the first Eagle I ever handled. The sculpture (Liberty). The color. The weight- the weight meant something, even to a small kid...

That's why I do it. Accumulate as conditions permit. Lay low. If you saw where I lived, you would never know, because I was taught to stay low-key. No sports cars, no McMansions.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

Keep Stackin!
Keep Packin!

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 18:41 | 4472628 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a SOLID good job of brainwashing.
Jolly good!

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:00 | 4460562 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

No matter how you look at gold it's an encyclopaedia of history, it has memory and even if it is buried for centuries it comes out an adjusts to reality without losing any lustre.

It's the ultimate hedge against insanity.

It's the chairman of MY central bank.

It has no central office.

It's everything today's leaders are not.........honest and dependable.

Thu, 02/20/2014 - 23:10 | 4460609 spqrusa
spqrusa's picture

Hmmm. Long Au - stackerz will soon be rewarded for their patience. Long BIP38 BTC - BTC is like real estate. There is only so much of it and in BTC's case it is all beach front property. I can't say that for most of the alts.

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 18:40 | 4472621 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Friday-lulz on a Thursday. Varry Naice. Make most glorious electrons for Bitkoinistahn!

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:15 | 4460776 limo_888
limo_888's picture

Gold/silver is money, everything else is just toilet paper (sooner or later)!

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 00:17 | 4460792 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Of course skepticism is warranted, but here is the only useful interview that I have seen relating to the return of German gold.

Interview with Carl-Ludwig Thiele, Member of the Executive Board of the Deutsche Bundesbank, published in Handelsblatt on 19 February 2014.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 05:57 | 4461167 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

And the interesting part of Thieles answers was: The gold is not returning to Germany. It was never stored in Germany it only existed as a BuBas balance sheet position.  A list of gold bars (which might never have existed) is forming the most important "Activa" position in BuBas balance sheet.

My assumption that these bar never existed is bolstered by the fact, that the numbered gold bars arriving in Germany do not coincide at all with the list of bars. Having this knowledge the logical consequence of any serious auditor looking at BuBas balance sheet would be to question BuBas balance in total. Unless the BuBa can not prove the fact, that the gold bars listed on the Fed document do really exist and that the BuBa is capable to get physical possesion of the bars within a reasonable time (that is in the world of auditing longest a week which is needed to organize and execute the shipment of the gold).

So we have now the poof that BuBas balance sheets are rubbish. Not worth the paper. Simply for two fact:

1) The numbers on the list of the gold bars stored at the Fed are not identical with the few gold bars delivered into the custody of BuBa during 2013. All red lights would flash for a serious auditor.

2) BuBa is not capable to reach physical possesion withing acceptable time which is normally one week longest. Proof is the delay on the fix agreed shipment schedule.

These two facts establish a situation that would make the balance of any given enterprise poooof! The executives having signed such a fraudulent balance would go to jail given the enormous numbers involved. Thats for sure.

BuBas balance is toast in the opinion of any serious auditor. Thats a fact.


Fri, 02/21/2014 - 01:43 | 4460948 boeing747
boeing747's picture

Already have PMs, I will accumulate 'toilet paper' early next year. First six months after 'big bang' are most difficult because janet stops printing 'toilet paper'.


Fri, 02/21/2014 - 02:28 | 4461018 silverstud
silverstud's picture

Where the fuck is Australia?


I have a few kilos



Fri, 02/21/2014 - 03:18 | 4461063 boeing747
boeing747's picture

In a deflation collapsing, food and water will be discounted since less people afford them. So make sure you have enough 'toilet papers' within your immediate reach even when 'Bathroom out of order'. For most families, a full backyard of sweet potatoes and some free-ranch chickens will take care. Sweet potato leaves are tasty and anti-cancer.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 03:31 | 4461072 LaurentDeLyon
LaurentDeLyon's picture

When somebody wants to place itself at the level of someone that is better than him, 2 solutions : either he disqualifies, decrease, diminishes, depreciates the other, either, he elevates himself. For sure the 2nd option is much more noble, self-criticism, humble, but .. tiring - the same for moneys - good job Grant

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:16 | 4461229 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Gold is freedom.  Under the current central banking system, you are not free.  You are hoping that when it all comes crashing down, you will be set free.  Let us hope so, but this time IS different.  Unlike the 800 years of financial history written about by Reinhart and Rogoff, this time all the countries are busted and are willing to do whatever they have to do to maintain the current power structure.  

Central banking is like no longer in its infancy, the world has gotten smaller, and its reach is all pervasive.  It's like Sauron in the Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf says, "There is only one Dark Lord, and he does not share power." 


We went from feudalism, and vastly powerful religions, to indentured servants, slavery, Jim Crow, fiat currencies, credit cards, a globalized economy, open borders, and now the NSA in your bedroom.  You are not free.  You will never be free.  If you think a little thing like too much debt is going to make the Dark Lord give up and go away you are absolutely nuts.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:18 | 4461230 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Gold is freedom.  Under the current central banking system, you are not free.  You are hoping that when it all comes crashing down, you will be set free.  Let us hope so, but this time IS different.  Unlike the 800 years of financial history written about by Reinhart and Rogoff, this time all the countries are busted and are willing to do whatever they have to do to maintain the current power structure.  

Central banking is like no longer in its infancy, the world has gotten smaller, and its reach is all pervasive.  It's like Sauron in the Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf says, "There is only one Dark Lord, and he does not share power." 


We went from feudalism, and vastly powerful religions, to indentured servants, slavery, Jim Crow, fiat currencies, credit cards, a globalized economy, open borders, and now the NSA in your bedroom.  You were never freee.  You are not free.  You will never be free.  If you think a little thing like too much debt is going to make the Dark Lord give up and go away you are absolutely nuts.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:55 | 4461269 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

take your smiddywesson and do us all a favor.

Gold is a pump


nothing more

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:53 | 4461263 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Gold trolls? Yes the people that believe ths crap spewed here are the gold trolls. In fact I would argure they like soup nazis


Yes we'll call them the gold nazis. Only they see the truth.

They pump - they dump as the ZH hysteria sends the stupids into the gold shops buying anything nailed down only to quietly sell the pump and move to Google and Apple in a beautiful cycle of whack the idiot.

People who see gold for what it is are not trolls - They are realists my firends - not trolls.

They are traders - holding gold from 1900 to 1180 was an idiots game palyed by idiots.

You see - when Zero hedge pumpers were pumping 49 buck silver and 1900 gold the wisest of us sold into the crescendo.

We even told you and you flamed. Only a few days later did you see yorur folly as the herd left the building.

Now that gold has bottomed the usual suspects (pumpers fully loaded and on the pump) come sliming their way back into the dialectic.

Don't be fooled by the pumpers this time. Ys you are idiots. Just make sure you remember it. Pick a target and sell.

Unless of course you like have your head handed to you by the scumbags pumping this trade

Mon, 02/24/2014 - 16:44 | 4472181 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

It's not a trade.

No target, no sell.

It's for barter later for tangible goods. Those paper fiats will be gone. No longer legal currency. THAT is when to exchange gold for something else, NEVER for paper.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 07:57 | 4461270 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Now that you have suckered all the idiots into bitcoin and raped them

you turn back to gold.

I have to admit


You really are deuchebags

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 08:13 | 4461289 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Peter Schiff: Gold Even More Bullish Under Yellen Than Bernanke or Greenspan!

 Peter Schiff continues his battle with the bubble media and discusses the solid values of Gold. Economic data is getting softer day by day now and Taper for The Taper is on the agenda again. Meanwhile gold stocks are leading this rally. Barrick Gold is breaking to the upside on the analyst upgrade yesterday, Royal Gold is going up anticipating  the Gold price action and McEwen Mining has printed The Golden Cross.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 09:31 | 4461404 MarcusAurelius
MarcusAurelius's picture

I believe that it should be part of anyones portfolio but it can take a very long time for a currency to become worthless. The assumption here is that the US Dollar will become just another fiat? I doubt that. It is still used to settle most commodities and unless this becomes questionable (which right now it is not) there is no real alternative to the US Dollar. 

Would you say that Oil is perhaps more valuable than gold? I could make a very good argument that it is. How about corn or wheat? What about water?

The US feeds most of the world. I suppose that China will likely take this role over too right? With 7 billion people on the globe and rising. The Chinese have always been known for their agricultural production right????

The US has a far more dynamic economy than Britain ever had and the world is still very dependent on it. That will not change any time soon.  

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 15:06 | 4462652 MagicMoney
MagicMoney's picture

You have the same paradox of value that classical economist had. What determines value? The diamond-water paradox. Why does a diamond sell at a much higher price than water when water is essential to life itself? Marginal utility 101.   Oil while very important is a consumable. Once consumed it's vanished. Money is the store of value, unit of account, and medium of exchange. Oil is very important, but it's supply varies dramatically as it is consumed, and produced, so it doesn't make it a good unit of account. People prefer money stability, not necessarily "price stability". Those are too different things associated with other influences. That's why gold would be more inclined to be considered money than say that of oil. Doesn't mean that gold will always be the most valuable, as in the case of early America, beaver pelts held very high value, comparable, or even higher than that of gold, but the country didn't really trade on beaver pelts to an extent that it became money in the long term.


And yes... Gold is a hedge, not a investment in my view. It's a hedge against fiat currencies.

Fri, 02/21/2014 - 10:32 | 4461634 GIABO
GIABO's picture

"A fool and his money are easily separated" P.T BARNUM


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