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EU Offers Conditional "Aid" For Ukraine's "Catastrophic, Pre-Default" Economic State
"There is no money in Ukraine's Treasury account," exclaimed 'Interim President' Oleksandr Turchynov to the Ukrainian parliament; adding that the Ukraine economy is in a "catastrophic state."
- *THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH BANKING SYSTEM AND HRYVNIA: TURCHYNOV
- *PROBLEMS WITH PENSION FUND ARE "COLOSSAL": TURCHYNOV
- *UKRAINE'S ECONOMY IS IN A `PRE-DEFAULT' SITUATION: TURCHYNOV
Hardly surprising given the months of protest; but with Russia 'conditionally' postponing its EUR2bn 'loan', the Europeans are riding to the nation's aid with promises of EUR20bn (if Ukrainian authorities meet certain conditions). But, as the map below shows, a great deal of the nation's wealth lies in the eastern (pro-Russia) region.
- *NEW UKRAINE GOVT'S PRIORITY IS TO RETURN TO EU PATH: TURCHYNOV
- *RUSSIA SHOULD RECOGNIZE UKRAINE'S EUROPEAN CHOICE: TURCHYNOV
Russia is on hold but the Europeans are willing... conditionally...
The European Commission has said it is ready to conclude a trade deal with and offer aid to Ukraine once a new government is in place in Kiev, Reuters reported Feb. 23. An EU official added that the European bloc could give the country more than 20 billion euros (some $27 billion) if Ukrainian authorities meet certain conditions, The Wall Street Journal reported. According to the official, this figure is a conservative estimate of the potential assistance Ukraine could receive from EU members. Russia is currently holding out on economic aid to Ukraine as it waits to see how the country's political crisis plays out.
But as a reminder, a great deal of the nation's wealth resides in non-pro-Europe eastern Ukraine...
The Economic Consequences of Ukrainian Federalism (via Stratfor)
For a country like Ukraine, the appeal of federalism, which divides authority between the central government and its constituent regions, is undeniable. Located in Europe's borderlands, Ukraine has been contested by its neighbors for centuries, a competition that has left it internally divided along linguistic, cultural and religious lines. Broadly speaking, Ukraine is divided between the east and the west, with eastern Ukraine favoring Russia and western Ukraine favoring Europe. Ukraine's regions are also distinct economically. The country's industrial base is located in the east. The east's close proximity to Russia creates strong cross-border trade that enriches regional economies. According to Ukraine's government statistics service, manufacturing contributes at least three times more than agriculture to the country's gross domestic product. Thus, eastern regions generally have higher per capita GDP rates. In 2011, the per capita GDP in the eastern region of Dnipropetrovsk, the country's most important industrial center, was 42,068 Ukrainian hryvnia ($4,748), while it was only 20,490 hryvnia ($2,312) in Lviv region, which is one of western Ukraine's industrial centers.
Seven of Ukraine's 10 largest private companies by revenue are either headquartered or maintain the majority of their operations in eastern Ukraine. These firms are owned by some of Ukraine's wealthiest and most influential individuals. Three of these 10 corporations -- mining and steel company Metinvest, energy firm DTEK and its subsidiary Donetskstal -- are based in the eastern industrial city of Donetsk and are owned by Ukraine's wealthiest man, Rinat Akhmetov. Interpipe, the company that controls 10 percent of the world market share of railway wheels and more than 11 percent of the world market share of manganese ferroalloys, is based in Dnipropetrovsk and belongs to businessman and politician Victor Pinchuk.
The country's most important businessmen are embedded in the east, where their businesses make disproportionately high contributions to the Ukrainian economy and national budget. Westerners staunchly oppose federalism because they believe it would threaten their economic and security interests. Others believe it could dissolve Ukraine as a country, leaving the west weak and defenseless against the Russia-backed east. Whether or not these concerns are misplaced, federalism would in fact benefit eastern regions disproportionately by giving them more control over state revenue, aggravating the socioeconomic tensions between the regions.
However, the Ukrainians are keeping their options open...
- *`WE ARE READY TO HAVE A DIALOG WITH RUSSIA:' TURCHYNOV
- *UKRAINE TIES WITH RUSSIA SHOULD BE ON EQUAL FOOTING: TURCHYNOV
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"a great deal of the nation's wealth resides in non-pro-Europe eastern Ukraine..."
Must be liberated by the Euro.
Ukraine should default.
Force Russian banks to take $30+ billion loses. It will ignite Russian financial crisis and Kiev-like riots in Moscow. (Ousted Ukraine President Yanukovich's residence is open to anyone. I wonder what Putin's residence looks like.)
Then Ukrainians can start building new democratic Ukraine.
Well, Well, Well... WHAT A Surprise...
The FIATS And The GOLD... A-L-L G-O-N-E ...
You were expecting them to leave it untouched so Yanu won't be pissed when he gets home?
OK, So Lets Make A Deal...
EU Gets The Lazy Shitty Iphoned & Chernobyled Western Half, And Russia Gets The Prize High GDP Eastern Half...
You sound like Kremlin bots. Are you?
It is not that easy for Putin to invade and take control over Crimea as Kremlin bots and paid bloggers suggest.
42% of Crimea are Ukrainians and Muslim Tatars and the majority of ethnic Russians don't want Putin to invade Crimea.
Early elections and punishment to officials for separatism have been demanded in the Crimea
http://maidantranslations.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/early-elections-and-punishment-to-officials-for-separatism-have-been-demanded-in-the-crimea/
"Rally in Simferopol Crimea. Pro-Maydan." (Note EU flags)
https://twitter.com/Annie_Yalta/status/437596151605641217
Rally of Crimean Tatars in Simferopol. (Note EU and Ukrainian flags) https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/437554811287134208
"In Crimea, the protesters demanding the dissolution of Crimean parliament and the dissolution of autonomy, and the demolition of the monument to Lenin." (Note EU flags)
https://twitter.com/radiosvoboda/status/437626178182979584/photo/1
(Note EU flags)
https://twitter.com/Kateryna_Kruk/status/437651883126431744
Crimean PM not at all secessionist today: "We should prevent any outbreaks (of pro-Russia) radicalism in Crimea"
(Video in Russian) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjDxFcPyR0
"There is no money in Ukraine's Treasury account,"
.. which is perfectly okay
and is actually the first step toward prosperity
hugs,
jakloo
Victoria Nuland, real last name Nudelman,,,,yea, that's right, she is Tribe.
For all the little bites Putin has taken out of Obama's ass in the last year, O got him back pretty damn good. Not only did he take his baby, but he did it durig his grand celebration of pompousness. Now Russia has to look like a warmonger for trying to get back control of a region that holds one of it's most strategic ports, and one that it has always held de-facto control of. Lesson here: Ukrainians are not Syrians.
I suspect much of that money has been snucked out is being used to buy RE in NYC and Florida.
Ukranians may not be Syrians, but they are 1.) broke, 2.) facing FAR superior forces, 3.) geographically convenient, 4.) much of the population lean toward Russia, and 5.) of those who prefer to look toward EU, how many actually want to be destroyed.
Ukraine is similar to Syria in that is is not a homgeneous country.
Putin has not lost any points in the chess match that I see yet, he still has plenty of pawns on the table, most of the leverage, AND the will to act.
Ukraine is in a very bad place, and the usual cast of Internationalist characters just may cause the country to be laid to waste. Just watch.
Next move: Turn off the Nat Gas - Check!
Fun to speculate Putin's next move but nobody really knows what lies ahead other than it will probably be messy. And if Obama and Barroso get ass raped, it's a bonus
Classic Example of of “Problem ~ Reaction ~ Solution” At Work
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=3733
UKRAINE: Another CIA-Coordinated Color Revolution In Progress"You sound like Kremlin bots".
You sound like WH bots.
You give some links from Twitter as a confirmation of your erroneous opinion? It's very funny. Your the last link (in Russian) is a big confuse. In this video, there is nothing against Russia, not one word. On the contrary, they say that the radical opposition has broken the law and therefore to blame more than the legitimate authority.
Ask please your bosses, they must replace the link and distributed to all the WH trolls (like you) other, "more right" links. LOL
Police returned from Kiev to Crimea - Sevastopol. People came with flowers, to meet the police as a heroes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4W2PwP0FBQ#t=138
The crowd is yelling 'Thank you' in Russian
Maaaan.... please.
Look, this is Sevastopol yesterday, Defenders Day (former Soviet Army Day) http://sevastopolis.com/uploads/images/z/7110_cam14.jpg
Any questions about flags?
Chernobyl is in the most prosperous region, therefore logic tells you that radiation is good for the economy. Soon San Francisco and Seattle will be booming... Did I miss something here?
In that case, Fukushima should take 1st place, but hey, at least they are sharing.
A local fish company here in Seattle sent seven species of Salmon , caught in Washington and Alaska, to a lab to test and two came back with cesium contamination. They said it is OK since banana got more radioactivity ( in the form of potasium 40 ). Anyone know how the body metabolize potassium versus cesium ? Even one particle of cesium ingested will be enough to enhance mutatioin as it radiates 24/7 in your body. I refuse to eat anymore fish from Washington and Alaska. I still eat local shrimp and crab. I am trying to locate fish from the East coast or the GOM but it is so damn hard.
Meawhile instead of dealing with the worsen Fukushima problem, the Abe government has refused to return the plutonium stock pile to the Us despite the repeated request of the Obama adminstration. In addition, it is accelarating its uranium enrichment program. Unlike Gemrnay which acknowlege its WWll crime sin, Japan is changing its school textbook and whitewashed its WWll crime. It is busy building its military and changing its constitution so it can wage war again. What a fucked up evil country.
Nah, give Ivankiv Raion to Belarus and let Russia and Belarus deal with it. Most of the radiation went to the NW in Belarus and the rest of Europe.
Your exactly correct, and I think the EU and the US overplayed their hand. All the money is gone and they need money (that 27 billion isn't enough), and you can bet your last dollar Russia isn't going to give them one red cent. If the EU and US want them, let them deal with that shit hole.
In theory, only.
In practice, there is the gas line. So I very much doubt the Russians will let the Ukraine go, with or without any Ukrainians left alive.
I'm suspecting this too -- Putin will announce Ukraine bailout. He must bailout Russian banks and oligarchs.
the opposite can happen too actually.
According to that map "all the money is in Kiev" actually.
And I believe the industrial center...Kharkov...is in the North not the East.
I do agree this is a very "fluid" situation.
I think pretty much everyone agrees that "Ukraine" should remain a unitary State.
Obviously default is an inevitability.
Too bad they gave up their nukes.
Then again...
Russia’s oligarchy is alive and well. Russian oligarchs and bankers are in control of the state and economy. It is hard to imagine Putin will not bailout Russian banks.
"I'm suspecting this too -- Putin will announce Ukraine bailout. He must bailout Russian banks and oligarchs."
- I'm suspecting this too -- that now in Ukraine there will be full freedom.
- And I'm suspecting that the first full freedom in Ukraine - it will be freedom from all Ukraine gold reserves!
- I'm suspecting that, it is one of the main conditions under which the EU is ready to give Ukraine a little of freshly printed colored papers.
Hello EU "western values", Goodbye our Gold reserves! LOL
Any gas that doesn't get thru Ukraine is now EU's problem. I assure you that it will get thru.
1) Washington Convention
2) Creditanstalt part Deux - or perhaps you haven't been watching (central) EU banks exposure since they made asses of themselves in Hungary
Then Russia will just bail out its banks ($30B is not that much), and raise gas prices to Europe to make up for the loss.
Problem->Solution.
If Russia handles it correctly, the Fed will bail out he EU which will bail out the 'new' West Ukraine nation which will bail out the Russian banks!
again..."they have rail lines."
and that sure looks like an awfully big river running right down through the middle of the country there too.
"build a huge port in the South...start exporting."
Yep $30B isn't much. The Fed prints more than double that every freakin' month to prop up the banks.
Russia's 'Black Majik Woman?' picks ups Vlad's mystical sticks???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLLXUaqZxg
You mean force Russia to repatriate their money in the form of Ukraine territory?
"Force Russian banks to take $30+ billion loses. It will ignite Russian financial crisis and Kiev-like riots in Moscow."
Dear
Cult_of_Reason,
if you think that the loss of 30 billion will lead Russia to a crisis, then, you are think only on the half of your brain.
I think he was thinking with his whole brain already, plus his feet.
Sovereignity for sale
"a great deal of the nation's wealth resides in non-pro-Europe eastern Ukraine..."
People forget their history so easily. Hitler's generals sacrificed the cream of their remaining armour at a little old place called Kursk, site of the largest tank battle in history and a stone's throw from Kharkiv.
Much blood has been spilled over centuries for control of the Crimea...
just take the jew money already
the debt is your best friend
next come the industries and agriculture
monsanto and chevron
will be the two most spelled words in
liberated ukraine
Rothschilds [& tribe]... 2 the rescue!
When Putin starts sending pallets of Russian passports to the eastern Ukraine, then you know the T80´s won´t be far behind. The "have to protect our felllow Russian citizens" ploy worked during the Russo-Georgian conflict.
Only T72 and older worked well enough there...
That's the post-1994 business model.
what is it that the jews have done to you? This hatred diminishes us all.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
~~~
Oh but... I'm SURE that ALL of that 'BORROWED' money was agreed upon by the 'MAJORITY' of 'DEMOCRACY'...
Excuse me for a minute... I have to go out into the FIELDS to WORK TO REPAY all that 'money' that was lent to me [with interest ~ & out of THIN AIR]... without my consent...
Wow. No offense but you have alot of catching up to do.
edit - this comment was meant for Unpopular Truth. Sorry Tahoe!
I don't consider it hatred. First off, it is a small percentage of them and the Neocons aren't all Tribe, just that a large percentage are. The want total world domination. It is written. Exposing the plan for what it is is both fair and needed if our Republic is to survive.
If a group of people are fucking you over, it's only logical that you will at least dislike them.
Look around, it may help you understand.
Fallacy of Composition. Many people that are Bankers are Jews, therefore The Jews ruined your life.
I worked with Israelis and 80% of them are clueless, lazy, Mama's boys who spend all of their spare cash and holiday time sending it to Momma back home or visiting Israel. Terrible betas with women. Almost as bad as the Chinese who win the prize.
Sure there are the powerhouse business men and such, but all Jews are far from your mythical group that fucked you over.
Most of them couldn't fuck over a warm candle.
The real enemy are socio-path/psycho-paths. They come in all different flavors. They are parasites that live off their populations. One tool they use is Divide & Conquer and the appeal to natural human tribalism. They seem to have a biological flaw characterized by no conscience and no real empathy for other human beings, including members of their own families. they see people as pawns to be used. They will do & say anything to get what they want. They are often slick talkers/manipulators and work themselves to the highest positions in government.
An example of such an individual was LBJ. While he was on a train and waving at cheering crowds as he passed, he called the people cheering 'dumb stupid b*stards' in a low voice. He lied to get into the Vietnam war, costing the lives of tens of thousands of Americans and millions of Vietnamese.
He wasn't Jewish, but he was a psychopath.
There are neo-con psycho-path/socio-paths who are Jewish.
I know quite a few people who are Jewish. Regular middle class Americans. Clueless, like most Americans.
Zakarpattia has 3 of the most important natgas transit pipes to Europe. If it received the transit fees for itself it would be very rich. The map ignores this fact.
Transit fees don't amount to what it might seem. The Republic of Georgia has the same expectation/problem. The money invariably goes to the source!
semperfidelis
Zakarpattia, if you take a close look at the map, also borders on four other countries.
A young person, with stamina and a long-enough time frame, might do well buying real estate in that district, think gas stations (etc.) for trucks that may cross that area.
Thought the EU was near bankrupt? Oh ya, the printing press...
The Fed is generous.
The Fed is generous to the well connected.
FIFY
You guys keep thinking of the EU as a state. It Isn't. It is a collection of states. The EU being bankrupt has no meaning. States within the EU can be or become bankrupt. e.g. Greece,
"Thought the EU was near bankrupt? Oh ya, the printing press..."
Europe cannot give Ukraine anything other than unemployment ...
And how much of that $20 billion goes straight into Moscow's pocket?
And might one of those conditions be that the neo-serf Ukranians would then be on the hook to ECB for the huge transfer payments to Moscow +interest + f/x risk?
FWIW - I underestimated the situation.
The escalation from $2B a week ago to $20B today, will continue to escalate in a rinse repeat of the PIIGS melodrama with ECB boys fingering the dykes.
I checked FY reports for exposure and political coverage from MIGA, EIB, and OPIC- ugly given the usual undercapitalizations but no black swans, then instead of individually checking the ECAs, DFIs, and Commercials - I got lazy and looked at IMF and BIS aggregates. There's not enough pseudo-insurance (incl. derivatives) to around, and $20B isn't going to cut it if they actually experienced a bank run last week and want the FSA to eat, much less heat or commute. However, based on Q3 2013 data -- institutions (and noticeably more than "F*CK the EU" would imply) were already cutting Ukraine exposure and there was noticeable flight (which would explain why Armstrong has been harping on Ukraine since seemingly forever, albeit in a political context). So the clusterflock of gray swans is swarming - and I'm guessing the multilaterals' armies of dismal scientists are going to be as busy as the Russian army tomorrow morning.
Moscow has pockets?
It will go into the pockets of the politicians & oligarchs.
I doubt the population of Moscow will see much of it.
aide? you mean financialisation, austerity and rent payments,
where do i sign up?
"UKRAINE TIES WITH RUSSIA SHOULD BE ON EQUAL FOOTING: TURCHYNOV"
' "There is no money in Ukraine's Treasury account," exclaimed 'Interim President' Oleksandr Turchynov to the Ukrainian parliament'
These statements, by the interim president, appear to be contradictory.
She has the country, its land and its people.
Russia could take it, but at a high price. The Ukrainians would revolt against the Russians.
I don't see a peaceful resolution to this not matter the players or the moves.
"UKRAINE TIES WITH RUSSIA SHOULD BE ON EQUAL FOOTING: TURCHYNOV"
' "There is no money in Ukraine's Treasury account," exclaimed 'Interim President' Oleksandr Turchynov to the Ukrainian parliament'"
Translation from Ukrainian: Russia should continue to subsidize the shattered economy of Ukraine. But not because we are pro-Russian, but because we have no money! LOL
Pretty sure Russian aid comes with conditions also.
Government 'Aid' is never truly aid, more of a bribe to TPTB in whatever country is receiving it, no matter which government is supplying it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/euromaidan/wiki/index
Nice link Johnny! From the perpective of gay pride, no less. Now I see where you get your last name!
Everybody is getting in the act. Friday it was a post saying the Mossad was behind the scenes. Strange bedfellows it seems!
Johnny McCain - Soros, AIPAC, oligarchs, IMF, open border pro-amnesty pro-drug cartel MIC stooge.
Yes, and it's obvious where you get your last name, too.
That piece of shit behind McCain's right side is Chris Dodd wannabe Chris Murphy from the once but no longer great state of Connecticut. He's all the rage in cry baby lib circles in CT. All you CT constituents should be asking him what the hell he is doing carrying nut job Johnnie's water in Kiev. But you won't.
@ Johnny Cocknballs
From your link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/euromaidan/wiki/index
"Ukraine was the center of the first eastern Slavic state, Kyivan Rus, which during the 10th and 11th centuries was the largest and most powerful state in Europe.
Sorry. but Ukraine never was the center of the first eastern Slavic state, Kievan Rus.
Because first of all, the word "Ukraine" came much later - in the 16th century. And secondly, the state with name "Kievan Rus" in the history of planet earth is non-existent never.
The phrase "Kievan Rus", appeared only in the 18th century, as the title of the eras of development of ancient Rusi.
Ambassador Pope Carlo Pasolini, describes in his diary Kyiv city, as a capital of the state "Rus". And nothing more.
Trying to portray Ukraine as mother Russia - it was a fake , written by pseudoscientific historian Grushevskii.
This is an attempt to invent a story of a state that was not.
Grushevskii worked commissioned by the Austrian intelligence . As a result, he received from the Government of Austria citizenship, good pension and a nice house.
Idd, the Rus referred were Nords (Vikings) that ruled over a slavic and turk population (remember, we're talking about the turn of the millennium here).
Putin 1 vs Amerika/Euro 0
now that the Sochi games are complete, lets watch how Putin will handle these MOFO's. It will be a very interesting few months ahead.
I was trying to make this point to a Ukranian working for a state department NGO. The Ukranian gov froze the accounts of the NGO's so he was trying to solicit bitcoin donations to fund the rebels. I tryed telling him that Urkaine would cease to exist if they joined the EU, but with no avail. Cognitive dissonance was strong with this one. Here is what would happend:
1) The east breaks off and takes most of industry with it.
2) Gas is re-routed to the south stream through the Black Sea and Bulgaria
3) French and German agricultural subsidies annihilate western Ukranian agriculture just as they did in every east europe country that joined
4) neo-nazi Svoboda takes power and a race war ignites as eastern-Ukraine becomes a failed state
Or a mixture of all the above. East Ukraine starts rioting and rejecting Kiev's authority, Ukrainian government tries to suppress them, Russia does a Georgia style operation, essentially annexing the Russian part, and leaving the rest a totally broken empty shell for the EU to fund perpetually. The NGO/rioting game can also be played from the other side.
This scenario offers the best hope for the Russian speaking and leaning East and South. Otherwise - nazi's from the West (with a friendly nudge and push from their EU / US puppet masters) will bring genocide to the East (it already started - just look at the very first "law" that this "free parliament" adopted - cancelling the Russian language as an "officially allowed" language on the "current" territory of the Ukraine). The only option left for the Easterners - NOT to be on that "terriotory".
Agree with this scenario. Ukraine has 50,000 border guards who report directly to president, who exactly is the president they report to? Will they defend the Russian/bylorussian borders?
Russia won't make te emergency loans in the current environment, who will fund the central Ukraininan government? If the Russified east and south do not submit to central control, who provides their funding? Does Russia convert Ukrainian currency to Rubles before they formally annex east and south Ukraine? Does central gov try to buy loyalty of easterners with western loans?
I'm sure Fed will be air lifting money for Ukraine before Euroland can get their presses running. YELLIN's ancestors were probably money lenders in Ukraine back in the good old days.
Chevron is going to do some exploratory drilling in west Ukraine to have a look at some shale structures there. It will take 5+ years to assess it.
Bear in mind three years ago the same thing was done in Poland, and at that time Poland was thought to possess Europe's richest shale oil/gas deposits.
The drilling in Poland came up empty. ENI and Exxon have pulled out. There's nothing there. Same might prove true for Ukraine.
Great post "CrashisOptimistic". I read a few years back about Polands new energy independence and soon to be huhe gas export industry. Now I see from your post that this was all a pie in the sky dream. The great Polish Gas boom was presented by the western press as all but a sure thing.
A fracking boom in west Ukraine would of course require recoverable reserves worth the huge capital investment. For this, the German bankers and ECB would have to get the printing presses geared up.
As I expected, fracking may not be the world's great energy revolution.
The great lesson of oil is to understand that it is not everywhere, and most places where it is . . . actually means was. Already drilled. Already drained.
Then when the arguments start, one agrees with them. You will NEVER run out of oil. There will always be Coke can sized bubbles of porosity underground with a Coke can sized bit of oil in it, and you can go get it if you want. So as long as that little bubble is there, you haven't run out of oil.
A typical well costs about $9 million now. That's what you'll have to spend to get that Coke can. North Dakota will still be flowing oil in 50 years. Exclamation marks !!!!!!. "We have 50 years of oil in North Dakota!!!" But in year 5 or so from the start in 2010 it will start to decline its daily rate. And in 50 years it will flow 1 barrel . . . per year.
Nah man, fracking is The New Coke. The can is too big to fail.
I believe the tried and true method used by the economic hitmen of the west is to lend the $$ to Ukraine then suck the economy dry.
And Ukraine can kiss those 'transit fees' good-bye once Putin's Gazprom turns the spickets off on the east side.
The have 2 or 3 other transit routes to get the gas to Europe. Thru the Balkans and up to Austria and Northern Italy. Through the Black Sea undersea line to Southern Italy. And I think the third is through Scandinavia. They all bypass the Ukraine.
well, having raped Greece to save the golden fleece of German and French banks, and their even more fragile counterparts in Italy and Spain, the EU/ Merkel cabal can make a nominal gesture to save the 200 Billion hole in the Ukranian economy.
If Putin can spend 50 billion for Sochi why can't Merkel spend 20 B to save Kiev?
Of course, 20 B can go to 200 B very fast...but then, the G20 has said, we will inject 2 Trillion to save the world.
Whats a few billion amongst EU Oligarchy friends of Ukraine, all to help it join the EU gravy train !
Putin you are all hocked up to funding Sochi, can you raise the ANTE to save your buddy Yankovich and Crimean Ukraine and your Ruthenian oligarchy gravy train?
Land of the most fertile agri business in East Europe...
One man who believes the Euro has a future : George Soros: 'I Believe In The Euro' - Business Insider
Syria and Ukraine all part of the East West emerging divide.
Dood. Russia exports 6.5 million barrels/day of the good stuff at $110 brent.
That's 261 BILLION dollars per year every year -- and that's just OIL, that's not even including GAZPROM flow.
You think they need to give a shit about 20 lousy billion dollars?
the Russian economy is very opaque and corrupt.
Learning to count "ins and outs" is what allows us to appreciate how the cookie crumbles.
You could say the same thing about Saud or USA, big revenue earners, until you see the government/Oligarchy spend side or the private "casino" bet side.
If the shit pile of debt in Russia were not so high, scam and Cyprus type games included, WHY would the Ruble be tanking?
Just saying... I don't believe the Russian accounts are as much in surplus as you make them out to be.
And, if the world economy tanks, given that Russia does no value added, just sells RM, it would face a huge rentier gap... oil prices could fall for two or more years, as in 1980s.... thats what caused the USSR collapse.
Oil price fall is what destroyed the Soviets. Oil price fell because Alaska and the North Sea came online. There are no more Alaskas and North Seas, and there are an extra 1 billion people consuming oil now.
History doesn't teach many lessons for a world that hasn't existed before. A world of 7 billion and oil scarcity hasn't existed before. Also, measuring things in money isn't real relevant in a world where it is explicitly printed from thin air.
Measure things in oil. Measure all things in oil, and only oil, and things become much more clear.
a major depression in DC/EM could cause the Oil to fall below 80$/bbl for two or more years. We are in times of big swings and uncertainties.
Two years ----> and the russian oligarchs implode...its fragile, Putinistan.
Falak, you said it yourself higher up this same thread: this is a major ramp-up of the grand East-West demarcation. Time to pick sides. Russian oligarchs know this all too well and they'll need to readjust if they want to remain oligarchs. For at least the last 10 years oligarchs in Russia have had to pledge allegiance to Vlad in order to keep their businesses and status. Do you really think that Kremlin after Yeltsin has ever considered the possibility of The Cold War being done and over with? That's just plain naive...
Major rule of the game is that he who owns the resources makes the rules. Now think about the mother of all bombs that can be launched if this Zionist orthodox-bashing shitshow continues and spreads in scope and means: one sunny day Gazpromia announces it's black gold and LPG is no longer redeemable in inflatable FRNs, but only in hard currency. You think Putin might actually be smarter than he looks and there's a reason Russia is stockpiling the barbarous relic along with China instead of exporting it?
You don't need to believe a word of my jibberish. Read this:
http://www.mining.com/from-russia-with-gold-54907/
You have to understand we are in a scenario where ALL empires are in attrition ; the US in ME from their past hubristic plays, the Russians in ex-soviet republics because of their past hubristic plays, the Chinese in Asia and Japan in Post Plaza Accord deflationist doldrums imposed by Reaganista PAx Americana dictat that fueled their FIRE bubble of the 90s.
This financial crisis is showing up all the dead bodies of all these empires now lying on the beaches of the world.
When deflation chimes bring panic reactions on the Titanic as "thieves fall out"...
Tipping times for the Oligarchs and despots and also for the "collateral" damage to sheeple of Syria and Ukraine sitting on the fault lines of crumbling imperial divides.
Your link didn't work for me. Another:
http://goldminersreport.com/library/from-russia-with-gold/
Thank you for the backup link.
Funny that mining.com doesn't support direct links to their articles; instead you're supposed to use the internal search engine on their page. Canadians...
falaker, Russia survived $12/barrel, so falak off.
P.S. Putin already falaked Berezovsky, Khodorokvsy, Gusinsky and other falaking "russian" joogarchs.
It wasn't Putin it was Gorby, it killed his regime and imploded Russia under Elstine.
If the Russia of today is rich its thanks to "globalization" and energy hungry world all built by NWO/USA.
If the rug gets pulled under THAT mantra which makes the world go round, Putin will be back to Elstine times and could then be rolling along to Gorby chimes. Big regression.
Putin's russia is rich 'cos the WEST buys its oil and gas....That's the bottom line.
If the West goes into deflation the EM economies go into DOUBLE deflation. And that includes Chindia and Russia.
The Pax Americana world is despotic but its the only game in town today.
I DONT PICK SIDES, I watch the dynamics of power plays today; and the underlying ethics of that "whats mine stays mine and whats yours stays negotiable" hubristic mindset dynamics, and I try and use the past to enlighten my grasp of the future.
Apart from war, which would be nuclear if its Russia/China vs West, the economic mantra of an alternative to Pax Americana has still to develop.
Today, Chindia and Russia are PEGGED to the petrodollar of Western world...
As long as the IMF controls the alternative to pure USD reserve it WONT be Putin's monetary hold that defines the NEW currency. The west has teeth and it'll bite and scratch to the end.
This may be tipping times but the world won't change over night.
The West may deflate, it may hit stagnation but it won't just roll over. Unless there is people's revolution...And that means Kiev comes to Western lands!
"20 B can go to 200 B very fast" Especially if you send the Vampire Squid into the Ukraine on the heels of the IMF.
they should just split and leave the free loaders in the west to the EU which itself is imploding based on its current form.
This is going to be very interesting to watch from a geopolitical stand point. I'm on the edge of my chair now.
Oh sure why not, one more bankrupt country to join the already bankrupt 'union!'
That Dutch fat fuck von Baalen and his Belgian neo-fascist fake liberal side-kick Guy Verhofstadt have a blank cheque from Brussels in their pocket to buy more votes!
And, of course, the famous Euro would be right behind ("if", of course).
A few years ago there was a move to have Ukraine join NATO. That fucking disaster didn't happen, fortunately...NATO is fucked up enough.
Watch and quiver as this EUSSR clown decides single-handedly for the whole of Europe that it's in our interest to pick a fight with Russia and that it's a good idea to add a yet another corrupt and bankrupt country to the growing list:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQnXo2HMriQ
The demagogy is absolutely disgusting and almost reminiscent of Hitler, Stalin or Mussolini! Now where is that fucking unelected bankclerk how looks like a damp rag...?
Yanukovich escapes by helicopter cctv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIh3_1TFp4
distribution of wealth in Ukraine
http://modernsynthesis.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/800px-ukrainian_salary_map.png
the eu can do for western ukraine what they did for greece
Baroness Catherine Ashton of the e fucking u.
a rothschild stooge a bp and monsanto agent.
another cunt that has a circumcised prick
Ashton is such a worthless kurva.
All we need to know -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AshtonClinton.jpg
Jesus H Christ man, puked in my mouth.
They found a woman they could put next to Hillary to make Hillary look good. LOL! Who dresses this woman? Her outfit looks like a thirft store cast off. These people are so ***ing evil.
Freddie you've aged!
They both have the vacant smiles and hollow stares of soulless bloodsucking harpies.
Soulless greasesucking harpies too. That's even scarier for a Bearing. No escape!
OMG, I cannot believe she is actually moar ugly than Hitlery. I bet Hitlery Hit on her for a chance at carpet munching.
Agree with everything except the circumcised prick. She only uses uncircumcised dildos on her husband.
In five years or so we'll find out how much the Fed gave Ukraine.
Roll the tanks Vlad.
Bailing out the pension system and Hyrvnia is better than losing access to the Black Sea and all that real estate.
Of course, you could keep Southeast Ukraine and leave Northeat Ukraine and Chernobyl to the Eurocrats and Brussels.
See how those EU lovers like bail-ins and mealy mouthed politicians and Brussles Banksters who practice a more obtuse, varnished, and dishonsest form of Kleptoligarchy.
I'm pretty sure the U.S.A. has the most dishonest and propagandized steaming crock of bullshit Kleptoligarchy on the planet.
Gotta go, there are some great Walmart commercials on the boob tube about them supporting American factories...
Go the Icelandic way I say. Fuck the banksters
all chinesse eyes are on syberia, yummy
russians can have eastern part of ukraine
I do not know why you got red.
Nor do I know why Putin is buddying-up w/ China. China is Russia's real problem longer-term. Siberia has many resources that China would be delighted to own...
Then why didn't they go for it when Soviet defuncted and shut down?
Putin is gonna shut off the gas.
The EU will pillage whatever is left (if they join), just ask Cyprus.
The EU has a great track record with pensions... just ask Poland.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/poland-confiscates-half-private...
BUT YOU GET A TRADE AGREEMENT!!!
The USA has already begun to make preparations for war. Ms. Rice, US foreign secretary today warned Russia in no uncertain terms that putting troops on Ukrainan soil would not stand. And to make it even better, she said the East will not be allowed to form a new independent state with freedom from Kiev's revolutionary un-elected government.
So the USA has revealed it's stance, the Ukraine must submit to a government run by revolutionaries funded by the USA to overthrow a government that won the last election, in an election the EU certified as free, open and fair.
This Mr. Rice, imperial ruler of the world, has made a mistake, that bitch failed to notice that Russian military has huge forces in Crimea, an area claimed by Kiev as part of Ukraine. So, pretext for war already exists.
I see the game plan is going according to plan.
1. fund, arm and train a small group of extremists, including nazis to overthrow the elected government.
2. once the government leaves, recognize the revolutionaries as legitimate government.
3. Announce that Kiev has absolute power and anti revolutionary districts must submit to Kiev.
4. announce no break up of Ukraine is possible
5. threaten war if the people of East and South Ukraine refuse to pay taxes to Kiev and submit to the unelected revolutionary forces.
6. [this is where we are today]. Announce that Russia must not put troops onto Ukrainian soil at risk of US Attack against Russia. This precludes any military support for East and South Ukrainian people seeking freedom and democracy. The East and South are to be militarily crushed to make way for the revolutionary government's complete control/
7. [where we soon will be]. Announce huge bailouts of Kiev, and announce a request from Kiev's new government for a mutal defense treaty [NATO] protection against Russia.
All this is the "End Game" I mentioned already several days ago. NATO will absorb Ukraine.
What we do know for a fact is Karkov and the East, along with the Crimea, is majority Russian, and not loyal to this revolutionary government. Claiming self defense, they both have voted to begin local control of their areas, to recruit individuals to aid police in protecting their territory from armed gangs that the USA will try and send East and South. This is where war can begin. When Kiev tries to exert authority of the revolutionary government over people who do not want to be ruled by Kiev. The USA and Kiev are the same entity now. Will they go to war? Russia has announced, after a top national security meeting, that they WILL go to war in Crimea. As to the East and Odessa areas, I suspect they will await Kiev's offensive, and then react accordingly. Lucky for Russia that they just converted their air defenses to the S-400 and the new upgraded TOR-M2 with new missiles. These can cover the East from Russian territory and the Russian Navy in Crimea has the same navalized missiles in the fleet. A no fly zone by revolutionary Kiev will be destroyed.
I posted a few days ago, that this is not a game, this is what wars are made of. Russia will not take a step back this time. They announced war for the Crimea, the East is likely the same. If the USA and EU are drunk on power, then god help us.
USA may have just found their reason to start WWIII...
It is so easy to start a World War in Europe.
Those Europeans are always at each other's throats.
The USA is going to send troops to the Ukraine? LOL! It will never happen. The public and Pentagon smacked down any ideas on Syria. 8 Russian ships between the US Navy plus one Chinese missile cruiser sent a message too.
Is the US gonna lob some Tomahawks? Use some of that scam stealth techology? The creator of the F-16 has said stealth has always been a scam. Good luck against Russian S300/S400 anti aircraft missiles.
Who will be there to fight for NATO? Germans? British? Poles? I doubt anyone will show up.
Who says the war would start by putting troops there? As you see, the MSM is already softening up the publics heart with pics of the dead Ukrainians that fought for freedom. Now all it takes is an evildoer to go back in mettling with "democracy" and there you have it. In theory, yes there cannot be a war there. But with our debt so high, and crash on the way, sometimes you just need "a reason"...
If the "MSM" is so worried, let all the homos in the MSM go fight. That would eliminate 99.9% of the MSM. Send Cooper first, waving a rainbow fag, er, flag.
Correct Freddie. No one in the West will fight for the Ukraine.
Well Do Chen - I think it is really more like - no one with an IQ above 30 in Europe will fight for the EU. They might sucker the Poles into it but I doubt it.
American troops and hopefully their families will say bullshit to fighting for the IMF-ECB and the Fed but teh scukers do it all the time. The public and Pentagon said Nyet to fighting against Syria.
The Poles, other Eastern European countries should send their tanks against evil Brussels aka EU.
shutup
Hey I did not know Ukraine was threatening to attack the USA! Wow. How are they going to get here to attack us?
What total bullshit. Bath House Barry and his masters need to fucking GO.
So, does this explain why Iran's Navy went blue water? To pull US patrols onto it and away from the region? Also, just noticed that China has more ships in its Navy than the US....are these ships capable of launching the new Chinese/Russian anti-ship missles? If so, a large group, like a Carrier, may not be the best thing to have on the water....
Have these groups 'lulled' the US into think they are superior to draw them into open war? Then unleash their fury.....like the chinese anti-satellite missles (we depend upon GPS for everything we do), the anti-ship missles, their new stealth/fighter technology....not to mention their manufacturing capabilities and the fact that they have all the gold and have lulled the population of the USofA into an 'entitlement' state that may prevent them from fighting....
Interesting times. No matter what, I think this is the ultimate goal and whether it happens now or sometime in the near future really makes no difference. The sooner it starts, the more it benefits the USofA as we may have a chance to change and adjust....
It makes me sick as an American to have such an evil and corrupt govt run by non-Americans that I would be cheering for the Russian and Chinese navies. I just hate bullies and it is nice to see that someone else is standing up to the bullies to hopefully stop The Fed/IMF/BIS/Rothschild/Rockefeller klan from looting another country.
According to the American behind the cheaper F-16 and A-10 - stealth is bullshit and always has been. The technology or idea was from a Russian academic. Stealth can be detected by long wave radar - just like what the Brits had in the Battle of Britain.
The most interesting bit about Syria was Russia had 8 ships off the coast of Syria between the US Navy. My guess is they could have splashed any Tomahawks and sunk the US Navy ships. What was even more interesting is China had at least one big missile cruiser there as well.
China and Russia will be crazy to allow the olgigarch IMF/ECB/Fed/ponzi FIAT West take out Syria or Iran. My guess is they will go to the mat over Syria and Iran. Russia will go all the way on its ports in the Ukraine and eastern Ukraine. The eastern Ukrainians will seceed. I sure as hell wish we could.
Susan Rice is insane...
"Rice said recent developments in Ukraine, including a peace agreement signed Friday, reflect the interests of the United States and Europe. 'We are going to have a unity government. We are going to have near-term elections. We are going to have constitutional reform.' she said."
What's with all this "we" shit?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/susan-rice-says-russia-should-not...
Yeah, when did Rice join the Ukraine government?
Fuck that fucking whore!
She's just reading the script. Who knows what they have on that bitch.
Rice? Not with my dick LakeCity
Nice analysis Jack
Agree!
Bath House must be stopped again. Of course he probably wants woar, since the US will be a smoking ruin.
US OUT of Ukraine! EU OUT of Ukraine.
As far as I am concerned, it's between Ukraine and Russia to settle it.
Vlad may have to fight the Vampire Squid, God help us all.
Corrupt and bad no doubt, but the previous government won the election. It was announced Ukraine going to have a fresh election soon. And those protestors probably do not have enough number to win a national election. So, I am wondering what those revolutionaries are thinking. Maybe Russia does not have to do anything. Just sit and wait for the election to be held.
100% wrong, Jack. Countries with nuclear arms do not get attacked....especially if they have lot's of bomds and delivery systems.
Any doubts, refer to N. Korea and Pakistan. Soon, Iran will be added to the list of immune countries, then, just maybe, we can start minding our own business.
No Russian troops on Ukrainian soil? They are already there in Crimea and other Black Sea ports.
I don't know how this gets resolved peacefully, there is NO CHANCE Russia allows what it perceives to be an enemy to have gatekeeper access to the Sea of Azov and part of its fleet as well as taking control of its ports on the Crimean Peninsula.
Cue Russian false flag attacks of harmless Russians in Western Ukraine.
Every one gets a bailout. Everyone!!! Load up on those bonds folks. They're probably yielding more than Detroit's.
whatever the squid owns is money good automatically. their insider knowledge, banking and political influence knows no bounds. however, whatever they unload on the muppets, i.e. you, is not money good. sorry, you can't win.