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Meanwhile In Non-Pro-Europe Ukraine

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The bad feelings concerning Russia run deep in the Western parts of Ukraine (as they topple statues of Lenin in growing numbers) while in the East they see themselves much more as Russians. These feelings run very deep in the region and memories do not fade so easily as the mayor and police chief of Kerch vigorously defend the Ukrainian flag in the clip below - deep in the eastern Crimea region (that Russia has already suggested it is willing to go to war over). Russian President Vladimir Putin has now been placed in a very difficult position, as Martin Armstrong notes, the entire set of circumstances creates the image of events in Ukraine that have diminished the power of Russia, which is a matter of pride and the only stable resolution remains a split along the language faultline. The critical question then is - will Putin let it go?

 

In the west they are toppling Lenin statues en masse

 

 

But in the East, the mayor and city officials in Kerch, Crimea defend the Ukrainian flag...

 

The big question- of course - will Putin let it go? (via Martin Armstrong),

Russian President Vladimir Putin has now been placed in a very difficult position. As the protesters in Ukraine gathered the support of the police against the mercenaries, they turned the tide of politics for the moment. Putin’s Sochi Olympic moment has been overshadowed by the bloody mess in neighboring Ukraine thanks to the insanity of Yanukovich trying to oppress the people as in the old days. Yanukovich has demonstrated that ultimate power always corrupts ultimately. There must be checks and balances.

The entire set of circumstances creates the image of events in Ukraine that have diminished the power of Russia, which is a matter of pride. The situation may appear that it is slipping out of control and Russia will just walk away. Indeed, it’s hard to imagine that Putin will just walk away and leave Ukraine to its own devices. There is political pride that is at stake here and Putin said in 2005 that the fall of the Soviet Union was “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe” of the 20th century. Putin’s view of this is not economic, but only political. From that perspective, we must understand that if the USA split apart as was the case with the Civil War, there is a sense that a loss of prestige and power will engulf the nation unless the lost portion is regained.

There are lessons from history on this point to demonstrate this is not my personal opinion. Take the Roman Emperor Aurelian (270–275 AD) who fought to regain the European portion that separated from Rome known as the Gallic Empire and in the East defeated Zenobia who established the Empire of Palmyra. Putin’s desire to retake the former nations that were part of the Soviet Union is in accordance with history and would be an exception if it were not true.  Therefore, to allow Ukraine to slip out of Russia’s orbit would make Putin no better than Mikhail Gorbachev, who presided over the Soviet empire’s dissolution in 1991 and allowed the very thing he sees as a great geopolitical catastrophe.

There can be no question that Putin wants Ukraine to join Russia’s economic attempt to create the offset to the EU with his Customs Union that includes Belarus, Kazakhstan, and soon, Armenia. The Customs Union is his counter economic response to the European Union’s much larger trading bloc. On this score, economics is the battleground.

It is true that only after Yanukovych broke off with the EU moving away from a European Union integration accord last November and chose Russia instead that the protests began in Ukraine. Putin applied pressure and Yanukovych responded taking the nation toward the Customs Union rather than the EU that would have no doubt curtailed trade to a large extent and reduced the prospect for greater entrepreneurship in Ukraine. The emergence of small business in Ukraine does not match the oligarchy monopolies inside the Russian economic model. However, this was more the straw that broke the camel’s back than the spark that ignited the revolution.

I have explained in the Cycles of War that Russia and Ukraine have deep historical links dating back to the Kievan Rus, from whom the very word “Russia” emerges. They were the days of the 11th and 12th centuries and they are traditionally seen as the beginning of Russia and the ancestor of Belarus and Ukraine. Kiev was the first real capital of Russia before Moscow. Therefore, we have a mother-country complex involved as well.

According to the Russian business daily Kommersant, they cited a source in a NATO country’s delegation back in 2008 that reported Putin had told President George W. Bush: “You understand, George, that Ukraine isn’t even a state.” Indeed, Ukraine has been the real mother-country to Russia for most of the last 900 years prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Certainly, parts of what is now called Ukraine have been controlled by many various countries as the borders have constantly change including Poland, Lithuania, the Khanate of Crimea, Austria-Hungary, Germany, in addition to Russia. Putin has often referred to Ukraine as “little Russia.” So clearly, there are serious issues here that warn that the immediate result in Ukraine may not yet be permanent independence. I have suggested that Ukraine split along the language faultline BECAUSE history warns that Russia is not likely to simply fade into the night. This is the ONLY solution that may allow Ukrainian independence and Russia to maintain its pride.

Strategically, Crimea, the southern part of Ukraine on the Black Sea, was part of Russia until 1954. At that time, Crimea was given to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, supposedly to strengthen brotherly ties. However, the majority of the population were Russian – not Ukrainian! Therein lies part of the problem. This “gift” of Crimea to Ukraine would be like the USA giving Texas to Mexico and Texans would suddenly all be Mexican. Would they “feel” Mexican or American?

There is also Russia’s Black Sea Fleet that is headquartered in the Crimean city of Sevastopol, which is less than 200 miles northwest of Sochi where the Olympic Games are being held. It is hard to imagine that the Ukrainian government could even end that lease without major consequences. Russia would no doubt be forced to move its headquarters east to Novorossiysk, yet this will have a serious geopolitical loss of face. Just last December, Russia proposed a deal of providing cheaper natural gas to Ukraine in exchange for better terms on its lease in Sevastopol. This is another reason there should be serious consideration of a split handing back the Crimea to Russia.

With the crisis over Syria that is the Saudi attempt to get a pipeline through Syria to compete with Russia on natural gas sales to Europe, Ukraine also presents a very serious problem for Russia. Natural gas sales to Europe are a key source of foreign exchange for Russia, yet a large portion of that gas actually passes through Ukraine. An independent Ukraine may present an economic threat to Russia if those pipelines were to be shut off. Nevertheless, Gazprom is also hedging its bets by building a new South Stream pipeline that crosses the Black Sea on the seabed from Russia to Bulgaria, bypassing Ukraine. This could relieve that geopolitical-economic threat, but it is not immediate. Clearly, this comes at a time that is serious in light of what the USA and Saudi’s are trying to pull off with the overthrow of Syria pretending they care about human rights when in fact it is all about that pipeline.

The Ukrainians really do not “feel“ that they are Russian and they have toppled statues of Lenin everywhere.  Why? Historically, Josef Stalin brutally subjugated Ukraine back in the 1930s. He confiscated all the wealth liquidating the farmers that were known as kulaks. The bad feelings concerning Russia run deep in the Western parts while in the East they see themselves as Russians. These feelings run very deep in the region and memories do not fade so easily. We still have the word “vandalize” that comes from the North African Vandals sacking Rome back in 455AD. China still hates Japan for their brutal invasion. These feelings and memories do not really exist in the USA most likely because of the very diverse ethnic backgrounds creating a melting pot rather than one group that remembers another.

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Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:07 | 4467763 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

I've heard of toppled Lenins before but they always get reerected somehow. Why bother toppling them in the first place.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:29 | 4467800 stant
stant's picture

they should have tried to sell them to komyfornia or any of those other bolshevik states. makes some cash. of course they be stolen eventually and sold for scrap but thats beside the point

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:56 | 4467829 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Russians must stop believing three ‘stupid’ myths about Ukraine

Efforts like those Moscow tried in 1994-95 collapsed in Crimea despite the presence of pro-Russian politicians. They will collapse again.

http://www.ukrainebusiness.com.ua/news/11327.html

Is Vladimir Putin Behind An Army Of Internet Trolls?

Elder reports that the emails are between Vasily Yakemenko, the first leader of the youth group Nashi (who now, of course, works for the Kremlin), Kristina Potupchik, and other activists — and show that Nashi was paying bloggers as much as 600,000 roubles ($20,000) to leave hundreds of negative comments on anti-Kremlin online stories. Other leaked emails show that the group appeared to be "buying" pro-government articles in Russian newspapers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-nashi-anonymous-opyoungbustards-2012-2#ixzz2u7Yo6vD9

It makes you wonder how much Kremlin has paid to these pathetic Kremlin propagandists: “Tyler Durden,” "Stefana Karinskaya," Martin Armstrong, etc.

Russian propagandist “Tyler Durden” is as desperate as "Stefana Karinskaya."

https://plus.google.com/102328271756379958894/posts

Confirmed Kremlin Twitter Bot

https://twitter.com/Powermanium/status/437260920654282752

A new Ukraine is the Kremlin's worst nightmare
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhI7zg4CAAETGcf.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhJK87qCUAEodfZ.jpg

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:57 | 4467866 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"These feelings and memories do not really exist in the USA most likely because of the very diverse ethnic backgrounds creating a melting pot rather than one group that remembers another."

Yeah?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 14:49 | 4467870 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Krasheninnikov concludes: “Let’s not deceive ourselves and learn to see the world more or less adequately: Russia already for a long time is not an empire. Ukraine is a separate state. And the more quickly we (Russians) come to terms with this situation, the more rapidly we (Russians) will find the solution of our own internal problems.”

____

P.S. Pro-Kremlin propaganda media and paid bloggers as "Tyler Durden" and Martin Armstrong are trying to portray the issue in Ukraine as West vs. East or Ukrainian speaking vs. Russian speaking.

But the real division in Ukraine is between (freedom and democracy) vs (goverment corruption and PoR -- party of Yanukovich).

"Tyler Durden" keeps posting videos of maybe 30 to 50 paid thugs (in Ukraine they call them "titushki") in Kerch (Kerch population 146K vs 2M in Crimea and 46M in Ukraine), but selectively does not post videos of thousands of pro-euromaidan and against Russia protesters on the streets in Crimea today.

Crimean PM not at all secessionist today: "We should prevent any outbreaks (of pro-Russia) radicalism in Crimea"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjDxFcPyR0

Note that Pro-Kremlin propagandist Tyler Durden's map of "toppling Lenin statues" intentionally cuts off Crimea, but

"In Crimea, the protesters demanding the dissolution of Crimean parliament and the autonomy, and the demolition of the monument to Lenin."

https://twitter.com/radiosvoboda/status/437626178182979584/photo/1

 

Info about Titushky (or Titushki -- criminal groups of Yanukovich goverment and PoR)
https://www.google.com/search?q=titushki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky

 

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:03 | 4467881 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You are a particularly egregious individual.  

 

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:24 | 4467949 john39
john39's picture

the borg are a collective

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:43 | 4468012 superflex
superflex's picture

Are the EU bankers and Jewish interests behind the Cult of Reason internet troll?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:42 | 4467831 semperfidelis
semperfidelis's picture

How arrogant does Russia look on the world stage calling for a military invasion of Crimea? Ukraine is a sovereign nation, recognized by Russia and all countries at the UN. What if Obama called tomorrow for an armed invasion of the Baja peninsula claiming it has `strategic interest` for the USA? How would the US look? You must be delusional to think that bringing down a flag actually has anything to do with Russian foreign policy.

 

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:59 | 4467863 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Not to belabor the point, but the USA has invaded many countries for lesser reasons...

(no, I didn't down you)

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:41 | 4468006 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

This “gift” of Crimea to Ukraine would be like the USA giving Texas to Mexico and Texans would suddenly all be Mexican. Would they “feel” Mexican or American?

Remember the Alamo!

Come and take it

Over my dead body bitches!!!

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:43 | 4468014 semperfidelis
semperfidelis's picture

Does Russia claim Alaska as well?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:47 | 4468027 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Except it wouldn't be like the Texas example.  The Crimea was formely part of Russia, it is 60% Russian and mostly Russian-speaking.

It is the United States that has no moral or historical justification to be meddling there.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 15:03 | 4468240 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Any comparisons between the US and Europe don't fit. Our borders have been in place for 150 years. Borders have been shifting in Europe for a 1000 years. Ethnic groups are tossed from country to country after each war. When you have 25% of the Germans outside of Germany after the WW1 border adjustments what are the chances of a WW2? Pretty good I think. Same deal here. Let Ukraine, Russia and the EU sort it out.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 14:41 | 4468164 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Speaking as a Texan with a strong allegiance to the Americas but with zero allegiance to the US Federal government, I think there would be a lot to be said for Texas leaving the so-called Union and forming an independent alliance with Mexico. I personally identify much more strongly with the people and cultures of Mexico than I do with the people and cultures of New York, Boston, Chicago and Washington DC.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 20:58 | 4469238 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

Thank you fellow Texan and I heartly agree.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:57 | 4468051 semperfidelis
semperfidelis's picture

I agree with the American foreign policy as much as I do with the Russian one. It the end both will suffer a major FUBAR event.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:02 | 4467879 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Direct invasion with troops is not the only way to take over.  What if a "leader" suddenly arose in Eastern Ukraine and called for secession from the rest of the country?  The Ukrainian govt. moves to put him down, more riots, Putin steps in to side with those secessionists (which he calls "freedom fighters" at that point) and... done deal.

Russians play chess.  We play checkers (sometimes, we simply eat the checkers because we don't know any better).

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:06 | 4467889 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Crimea is viewed as Russian territory.  Even Ukraine and the US does not bother to debate that point.   It houses their naval fleets.....

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:45 | 4467846 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Will Putin let it go? Sure, sure he will. " Okay, you can have my food and my money, come right on in and take it; pay no attention to the .45 Automatic in my right hand; it's just a movie prop".

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:56 | 4467862 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Did Lincoln let the Confederacy break off?

Will Barry let Gov Perry break Texas free from the USA?

To ask the question is to answer it.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:09 | 4467765 Truther
Truther's picture

Putin will show who the real chess player is. Winning as usual.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:13 | 4467772 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

since putin takes usa and eu clownbux he is hardly winning anything at all. putin blows joo bankers

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:01 | 4467876 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Have a bad night, Buzz?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:20 | 4467784 william114085
william114085's picture

Mad Vlad is just a pawn....same as Berry the Fruit

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:34 | 4467815 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Just waiting for the Olympics to end and then the forces will be unleashed.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:44 | 4467841 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

Yeah Putin will show them. His society is falling apart.....

Courtesy of qz.com

http://qz.com/179708/map-where-the-worlds-biggest-vodka-drinkers-are/

the Russian penchant for heavy drinking is becoming a major health concern. A recent study (pdf) published in The Lancet found that heavy vodka consumption in Russia is alarmingly tied to early deaths. And Russia—its men especially—is plagued by early deaths. Over 25% of men die before the age of 55, and about 20% of all deaths amongst Russian men are due to alcohol-related causes. ”High mortality [in Russia] absolutely is caused by hazardous alcohol consumption,” Dr. David Zaridze, one of the study’s authors.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:29 | 4467963 toady
toady's picture

You paste that like it's a bad thing. The US, and all the countries with aging demographics and budget shortfalls WISH they had stats like that!

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:31 | 4467969 john39
john39's picture

that's what chemtrails and big pharma are for.

and just rolled out obamao-care just to be sure.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 15:08 | 4468252 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Along with GMO foods and what passes for real food in the grocery stores.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:15 | 4467774 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Martin Armstrong has got a few things wrong about Yanukovych. The man bent over backwards to accommodate the protesters, whom would be identified as terrorists were this happening anywhere else in the world.

Pat Buchanan's got a great article on the Chronicles website on the unrest in Ukraine.

https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/ukraines-crisis-not-ours/

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:32 | 4467810 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

And then the British, CIA, and Mossad snipers fucked it all up.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:12 | 4467904 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I guess you missed the videos of Ukrainian policemen with rifles shooting at the protesters....  But since you say it was the CIA it must be true.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:49 | 4468031 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

did you see the videos of the peaceful protesters shooting at the police?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 15:45 | 4468369 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"I guess you missed the videos of Ukrainian policemen with rifles shooting at the protesters.... "

I guess you missed the videos of Ukrainian policemen with rifles shooting at the protesters.... who shot at police with sniper rifles and throwing in the police and to government buildings, Molotov cocktails. Do not you, my liberal friend?
Or do you think that the police in the United States will never shoot at anyone who is a threat to public order, the foundations of government and the lives of those cops?
Or do you think that in the U.S. all who according to the government is a terrorist, was killed only via missiles with drones of US democratic government?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:08 | 4467892 Skin666
Skin666's picture

A Kleptocrat is a Kleptocrat.

 

Look at the inside of his palace as shown yesterday on ZH, and you see how much this cuntsack politician was able to skim off productive citizens. Corruption is endemic across the world, and it's becoming increasingly clear to the brainwashed masses.

 

Roll the motherfucking guillotines, nothing changes otherwise...

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:53 | 4468042 agent default
agent default's picture

Go tell that to the Fed.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 16:15 | 4468468 Boomberg
Boomberg's picture

If only we could see the multiple world-wide compounds of our rulers, Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, Brian Moynihan, and others. Not one of them has contributed one decent thing to society, skimming all of their wealth with gambling beyond our wildest imaginations, with the money from the labor of 401K contributions, mortgages, and pension plans. The banker compounds make the Ukrainian compound look like an outhouse. 

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:58 | 4468056 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Buchanon is spot on in that article. Not our fucking rodeo. Fuck You McCain, you senile old prick

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:17 | 4467779 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It is likely no coincidence that these events heated up during Sochi.  Putin could hardly start rolling tanks in the middle of that.   Somehow I'm guessing they are gassed up and ready to go.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:21 | 4467786 Jon Steed
Jon Steed's picture

putin just waiting for that last fire cracker at sochi to end the games and then.  now we invade.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:44 | 4467838 Flagit
Flagit's picture

you mean diesel?

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:54 | 4468044 agent default
agent default's picture

Nah, they are multifuel.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 16:26 | 4468508 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Maybe.... but this isn't 1956 or 1968. I don't think it is going to play out the same way...

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 23:29 | 4469656 pot_and_kettle
pot_and_kettle's picture

Watched the closing ceremonies in Sochi.

 

Now on the lookout for the opening ceremonies in the Ukraine.  Less pleasant, they'll be, but a more fireworks methinks.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:17 | 4467781 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Love seeing lenin being toppled, fucking awesome.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:23 | 4467789 OwnSilverPlayMusic
OwnSilverPlayMusic's picture

Totally agree just as long as statues of Barroso don't go up to replace them.  If Ukranians actually want to be free, joining the EU would be as great of a mistake as cowering to mother Russia.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 13:28 | 4467961 john39
john39's picture

meet the new boss...  you know the rest.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 14:22 | 4468123 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

Ukrainians got it already wrong once with Western Europeans, when they welcomed Nazi "liberators" in second world war. The cheer didn't last very long.

Sun, 02/23/2014 - 12:31 | 4467807 The.Harmless.Who
The.Harmless.Who's picture

 

 

Wow, Yid, you're breaking ranks here! 

 

Lenin was a yid! 

 

Awyoe - the Talmud didn't command this. It expresses hate and contempt (much like the FED doctorine) on the Goyim.  

 

 

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