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The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And Destroy Reputations"
In the annals of internet conspiracy theories, none is more pervasive than the one speculating paid government plants infiltrate websites, social network sites, and comment sections with an intent to sow discord, troll, and generally manipulate, deceive and destroy reputations. Guess what: it was all true.
And this time we have a pretty slideshow of formerly confidential data prepared by the UK NSA equivalent, the GCHQ, to confirm it, and Edward Snowden to thank for disclosing it. The messenger in this case is Glenn Greenwald, who has released the data in an article in his new website, firstlook.org, which he summarizes as follows: "by publishing these stories one by one, our NBC reporting highlighted some of the key, discrete revelations: the monitoring of YouTube and Blogger, the targeting of Anonymous with the very same DDoS attacks they accuse “hacktivists” of using, the use of “honey traps” (luring people into compromising situations using sex) and destructive viruses. But, here, I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself." Call it Stasi for "Generation Internet."
Greenwald's latest revelation focuses on GCHQ’s previously secret unit, the JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group).
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums. Here is one illustrative list of tactics from the latest GCHQ document we’re publishing today:
Other tactics aimed at individuals are listed here, under the revealing title “discredit a target”:
Then there are the tactics used to destroy companies the agency targets:
Critically, the “targets” for this deceit and reputation-destruction extend far beyond the customary roster of normal spycraft: hostile nations and their leaders, military agencies, and intelligence services. In fact, the discussion of many of these techniques occurs in the context of using them in lieu of “traditional law enforcement” against people suspected (but not charged or convicted) of ordinary crimes or, more broadly still, “hacktivism”, meaning those who use online protest activity for political ends.
The title page of one of these documents reflects the agency’s own awareness that it is “pushing the boundaries” by using “cyber offensive” techniques against people who have nothing to do with terrorism or national security threats, and indeed, centrally involves law enforcement agents who investigate ordinary crimes:
Greenwald's punchline is disturbing, and is sure to make paradnoid conspiracy theorists crawl even deeper into their holes for one simple reason: all of their worst fears were true all along.
No matter your views on Anonymous, “hacktivists” or garden-variety criminals, it is not difficult to see how dangerous it is to have secret government agencies being able to target any individuals they want – who have never been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes – with these sorts of online, deception-based tactics of reputation destruction and disruption.
The broader point is that, far beyond hacktivists, these surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they’ve been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats. As Anonymous expert Gabriella Coleman of McGill University told me, “targeting Anonymous and hacktivists amounts to targeting citizens for expressing their political beliefs, resulting in the stifling of legitimate dissent.” Pointing to this study she published, Professor Coleman vehemently contested the assertion that “there is anything terrorist/violent in their actions.”
At this point Greenwald takes a detour into a well-known topic: Cass Sunstein. Who is Cass Sunstein? Recall: "Obama Picks Cass Sunstein (America’s Goebbels?) To Serve On NSA Oversight Panel."
Government plans to monitor and influence internet communications, and covertly infiltrate online communities in order to sow dissension and disseminate false information, have long been the source of speculation. Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviser and the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government. Ironically, the very same Sunstein was recently named by Obama to serve as a member of the NSA review panel created by the White House, one that – while disputing key NSA claims – proceeded to propose many cosmetic reforms to the agency’s powers (most of which were ignored by the President who appointed them).
But while until now there was speculation that Sunstein's policies had been implemented, there was no proof. That is no longer the case:
... these GCHQ documents are the first to prove that a major western government is using some of the most controversial techniques to disseminate deception online and harm the reputations of targets. Under the tactics they use, the state is deliberately spreading lies on the internet about whichever individuals it targets, including the use of what GCHQ itself calls “false flag operations” and emails to people’s families and friends. Who would possibly trust a government to exercise these powers at all, let alone do so in secret, with virtually no oversight, and outside of any cognizable legal framework?
What is perhaps most disturbing is the level of detail these modern day Stasi agents engage in, paradoxically proposing social subversion without realizing they themselves would be susceptible to just that. And all it would take is one whistleblower with a conscience:
Under the title “Online Covert Action”, the document details a variety of means to engage in “influence and info ops” as well as “disruption and computer net attack”, while dissecting how human being can be manipulated using “leaders”, “trust, “obedience” and “compliance”:
The documents lay out theories of how humans interact with one another, particularly online, and then attempt to identify ways to influence the outcomes – or “game” it:
Greenwald's conclusion is spot on:
These agencies’ refusal to “comment on intelligence matters” – meaning: talk at all about anything and everything they do – is precisely why whistleblowing is so urgent, the journalism that supports it so clearly in the public interest, and the increasingly unhinged attacks by these agencies so easy to understand. Claims that government agencies are infiltrating online communities and engaging in “false flag operations” to discredit targets are often dismissed as conspiracy theories, but these documents leave no doubt they are doing precisely that.
Whatever else is true, no government should be able to engage in these tactics: what justification is there for having government agencies target people – who have been charged with no crime – for reputation-destruction, infiltrate online political communities, and develop techniques for manipulating online discourse? But to allow those actions with no public knowledge or accountability is particularly unjustifiable.
So the next time you run into someone in a chat room or a message board who sounds just a little too much like a paid government subversive... it may not be just the paranoia speaking. For the full details "why not", read the formerly confidential slideshow below.
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I don't see where you and I disagree. I feel that same pain of living in a world of manipulation and seeing others succumb. Look, you either feel the way you express online, or you don't and are just a troll. Well, I suppose the statist government would likely align itself with the troll than the person that has the same disgust as you. I think you can see the evolution of that iteration in Syria and what is being fomented in the Ukraine. It is there, and you just have to decide if you are going to believe it with surrender, or reproach it as you also seem to do in your post. I can clearly see that you understand it, you just have to decide to do it, regardless of what every zombie around you is doing. It is not easy, but it must answer something within you.
What I believe ranger made crystal clear is that the conflicts you listed, and all that you may believe you are fighting for now, or even "need" to fight for, are the same things we've always fought for, just louder on an ever shrinking planet... Nothing much has changed under the sun. Same tired enemies, committing the same old 'atrocities' with each new "revolution" bringing old promises, again.
Having new more efficient means for communication or insurrection or manipulation is simply that. And shouldn't imply there's some NEW war against humanity taking place. Internet spying or trolling are new tools to accomplish the same old things.
An institution may worry much more should people, say, do something absolutely crazy like question our "role" within this system, or the systems' role on this planet or our systems of merit and reward... For instance.
Edit: Ranger's post runs deep. This one hardly does it justice.
I think Tickhound got it. What I'm saying is:
what a lot of people consider free independent thinking is not free, independent or thinking, it's a controlled message, a meme that has long ago been planted within culture, being picked up by that person.
that people are not showing any courage to do anything, and that the reason the world continues as it does is because of that lack of courage.
that to truly break free, you have to see the macro / micro / super macro / super micro and be able to see options at those levels that improve the well being of others.
that because we're not doing anything of any consequence, the people in charge are not even concerned, they're not troubled, they're still in control and strongly in control... most people will tell you the same narrative the people in charge want you to believe, so their message is not being challenged, and not at a deep / fundamental level. They don't have perceived control, after millenia at this, they have absolute control, over your mind and your actions... which is why you need to think and do with imagination.
humanity is not on the verge of winning this battle, we're on the verge of losing this battle. Unless a lot of people step up to the plate and are willing to die to see the change that's needed in civilization, politically economically and socially, we're trapped at the mercy of those in charge. And unless people can see that the systems they so fundamentally believe in are actually tools of those in power, we're not going to make it.
I'm afraid we're fast approaching Feudalism at this point. Everything the oligarchs take, we moan a bit, but in the end, we let them take it, we don't resist, we don't fight, we "object" your dishonor. We object. Well, that's not enough. Pensions here, bank accounts there, homes, jobs, lives, our children... when will it actually be enough to create action? Not sure it will, since most people have been taught to worry about their own well being, their safety, fuck thy neighbor. So we're fucked, by our many neighbors.
That's the problem. We waited so damn long to do something, the disease is global and virulent. Think of yourself as an antibody that has to resist the disease... are there enough antibodies doing something to fight off this assault? NO, there are not. Everyday we comfort ourselves in the bullshit narrative that one person can't do anything, so what is a person to do? Nothing, is always the answer. Yet we know we're lying to ourselves, because we can cheer the few who take up the cause and try, vainly to oppose the monster.
When you have a global parasite strangling the host, you need a global response to repel the parasite. And I'm afraid we don't have the kind of people we need on this planet to fight the kind of enemy we have on this planet. That's what I'm saying.I will do my part, but unless I see more courage from others, I know I will die fighting with too few against the many. You don't even need trolls, there are so many in civilization with so little courage, they will do the hit for the oligarchs, squeal on you, chastise you for your courage and independence, disown you, mock you, envy you, hate you, have you killed. We're surrounded, if you look carefully. Haters everywhere.
wow-i'm blowen away by your post. at all my intellectual levels you nailed it. you are a true artist. did someone lock you in a room for 20 years so you could post the truth. very few artists can create without influence. the world is 99 percent tools doing the tasks that ultimately kill themselves(mentaly for sure). well said, kudos for your insight to the HUMAN DILEMA of our time (and as always).
and this is the main reason i visit ZH, to get info and insight from people like ranger. thank you...
also to vent my frustrations, which does nothing to solve the problem.
i do believe that at some point enough will die for liberty(knowing damn well that the battle may be lost) rather than live a life of slavery...
parting shot-I REFUSE TO BE A VICTUM! say it. believe it...
pony express
Thank you New Game. See you at the brawl.
agreed, one of the most insightfully brutually fucking honest subthreads i've read in quite a while on the intertubes.
Tipe E. Canoe, thanks Man.
The way of revenge lies in simply forcing ones way into a place and being cut down. There is no shame in this. By thinking that you must complete the job you will run out of time. By considering things like how many men the enemy has, time piles up; in the end you will give up. No matter if the enemy has thousands of men, there is fulfillment in simply standing them off and being determined to cut them all down, starting from one end. You will finish the greater part of it.
-The Hagakure
How could anyone down vote that? It's generational responsibility at it's most basic.
Thank you Kobe Beef for posting that, it's a great quote.
Ranger: Dead on. Our choices - if we even have any left - are few, because there's no escaping the matrix of political corporate media which controls all. You say that we are fast approaching feudalism, but consider, we never left it. We were led to believe we were free, democratic, or whatever virtuous platitude with which the owners of society wished to clad the truth.
If, as you suggest, the battle is already lost and humanity is defeated (really: chemtrails, Monsanto, Fukoshima, etc.), then there is no choice but to acquiesce, play along and hope or pray for collapse, which many of us have been doing.
Consider this choice: Grow a garden in your own yard to feed yourself, or, knowing that food supplies will be stretched to the limit this summer, grow vegetables on a much larger scale, acres. The latter choice would involve a balance between helping others and massive profits. The former choice is pure self-preservation. I've made the decision to opt for the former. The acreage was available to me, but, as your final line so eloquently states, "haters everywhere," and who needs to feed haters?
I'll find out this fall if I made the right choice. I'll have enough for myself, but not for anyone else. If tomatoes, broccoli and eggplant are $5/lb. and everyone's suffering except me, what then?
I'll have a greenhouse for the winter.
Screw everyone else, and that includes your friends and family who mock you, deride you and deny the truth.
Save yourself.
Thanks for the erudite and well-reasoned post.
Fre et. al.:
If Ranger were correct, Ukraine wouldn't be happening. Neither would Venezuela. Nor the many other places where humans have decided to "Live Free or Die."
Ranger's post is nothing but a bromide for people who have given up the fight. They lost - and want to convince themselves they never had a chance to win.
It excuses them from admitting failure in their personal struggle.
As the flames of Ukraine and Venezuela spread, there will come a time when even the Deep State of the US will succumb to its own corruption.
Don't misplace your failure with that of humanity as a whole.
-30-
And what's so unique about Ukraine or Venezuela that make you distinguish them as something new or truly revolutionary? Useless if all they do is further entrench the same institutions and systems that actually benefit from this type of thing.
All I see is the volatility, that ancillary benefit we've been convinced is "productive."
Events like these are no threat to the establishment. They're just window dressing for the establishment.
Ranger is not suggesting everyone simply charge forward to die... Particularly if the goal presents no real fundamental challenge to system.
It may be called revolutionary, but it cannot be called 'new'. When the time comes that men throw off leadership- that can be called new.
MarsInScorpio,
I didn't say there were no brave souls, I said there aren't enough, and I didn't say there were no brave Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Icelanders, Cypriots, Ukranians, Egyptians, Canadians, etc.
I said there were few in the United States. ;-) Feel better? The world is waiting in turmoil, for the Americans to attack the monster in this part of the world, but too many people have better things to do than concern themselves with global crises.
Globally, humanity is disorganized. If we could organize for global dissent and arrest the thugs across the globe, we'd be in a much better world.
I am not saying we just leave a world in anarchy after we're done, even though that may be what we ultimately decide is best collectively, but I am aware we have lots of reconstruction work / reorganization work to do during and after the liberation. It's long duration work, so there will be some interim situations that will ultimately be discarded. There are ideas on all of this, but that's part of my issue... we're not even really discussing the procedures / protocols, we're talking about nonsense.
FreeNewEnergy,
Do not despair on my account... you are misreading my intent. I'm not saying we've lost all hope, I'm saying we're running out of time, so we better hurry the fuck up.
Re Fudalism, I didn't go into details, but Yes, you're right, we never completely escaped it, it morphed in expression and we've been trapped in its grip throughout. My point was, the camouflage is going to be pulled back and the mode of expression become much more brutal. Concentration camps, labor camps, indentured servitude, multi-generational debt, rent based living, no property rights, 2 class society, etc. It's almost here.
I don't know how people are reading that we should surrender... I was merely pointing out that we're now in an uproar because it's all too apparent, the corruption and chicanery, but it was also apparent long ago, if people would only have looked / listened. All I was trying to say is we have allowed the beast to feast, and allowed our own starvation, so we are that much weaker in the battle... but we vastly outnumber them if we all tried. It's a call to wake up and recognize the pattern of deceipt, both imposed and self-inflicted. I don't continue to fight because I know we've lost, I'm positive we have a chance to win and ultimately, if not this millenia, if we're still around next millenia, we will win, but we really need to wake up and recognize where in the timeline we really are. We are in deep shit. 40 years into the transition towards a more brainwashed Feudal society. Coumpounding 280 years of falsifications. We could have seen it in 1980, or 1776 or earlier, but no one wanted to listen. Anyway, we have plenty of opportunity, but it's not going to come about because of hope, but action. Time really is running out in the sense that the struggle is only growing larger, the obstacle greater. What happens if they collapse the currency and everyone is desperately trying to find food and shelter? What if they start mass arresting people randomly to put them in camps or to kill them for depopulation memes? How many would volunteer to bring down the oligarchs then? I am afraid less will volunteer then, not more. Self-interest has been too deeply ingrained.
Haters everywhere was intended to point out that a lot of people believe the propaganda, they don't want to let go and learn the ugly truth, so they hate you for having the audacity to remind them. You and I will feed whomever we can same as we share the planet with them now... only thing is, we really need people to start building their courage so we can overcome this inertia to at the least look at the fucking facts of the situation, recognize the reality. You are welcome to do what you think is right, and truth be told, I might not offer help to the haters before I offer help to the enablers. There are so many who are making the situation worse by not taking action, by not facing facts, and for that, I definitely feel a bit of anger.
Something most people don't recognize, we're actually responsible for 3 lives at any given instant. Your own, and 2 random individuals in the next 2 generations to be born. You can think child and grandchild, but I intentionally mean detached from your being. Apart from that intrinsic responsibility, you have whatever responsibilities you choose during this lifetime, such as family, friends, strangers, etc.
I've said it before and i'll keep saying it. I'm 50 now. I've lived a valuable life. I've learned exactly what I wanted to learn when I was a child... who am I, why am I here, why are there poor people in the world, why are there so many callous / indifferent people in the world, how did our civilization get to this point. I've done everything I could to share my questions and understandings with everyone I've met. Now, I'm only focused on finding solutions and helping enable that future, not for myself, but for the future generations. I am fine with dying, but I will not die a useless death. I will do the best I can to make a difference before I go. I've never really been afraid to die. It's just another part of having been born. So bear that in mind. Do what you can, to help those who will be born to receive this civilization we are leaving behind. We owe it to them, and would you rather leave them the Dark Ages, the Great Depression, or a glowing future full of hope, opportunity and prosperity?
Thank you for your contributions today, Ranger. They meant a lot to me. Criminal spray operations aka chemtrails...
You were too polite with me. I hardly grazed your thoughts.
But I'll offer this in addition anyway. Were it even realized that capabilities exist to actually SOLVE problems in "untraditional" yet more practical ways... Right now I doubt it could be enough. Your post suggests even what we define as "problems" have become so interwoven and distorted with "way of life" that even attempts to solve them can cause a convenient paralysis.
Helping me and others to discern is a challenge... I appreciate the patience.
You're right. I often say to people that it's not that we're bad at solving problems, we're trying to solve the wrong problems. To an honest and sincere heart, the problems are easy to find, and the solutions take time to come upon. But you have to seek with a sincere heart. Interestingly, You and Tip E. Canoe are basically pondering similar subjects. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-24/conspiracy-theory-true-agents-i...
My answer to both of you is the same. Remain open minded, observant, always skeptical, continue questioning everything you hold in your head / heart, and keep trying to get to the meat of the matter. As soon as you're convinced you've found an answer, you're pretty much useless, and someone will control your thoughts. So ask yourselves...
What are you trying to accomplish in this lifetime, Why, for Whom, and How can you achieve that intention. I'm not interested in helping you if you're trying to become rich. There are others who can do that for you. I'm here to communicate that we can all be rich, prosperity. I am here to end poverty. I am here to end human suffering. I am here to help bring love back into humanity. And I am willing to die trying. That's my quest. I've spend my whole life analyzing, questioning, challenging, thinking on my own, doubting the teachings of others, but never really doubting that I can help improve lives (rich and poor).
Obviously there are vast riches in the world, and it's a matter of how they're distributed. And knowing those who have the resources will not want to hand it over, the quest then becomes, how can it be multiplied / replicated / replaced. How can it be duplicated without having to take it from those who won't relinquish it anyway. So that's the problem for me, and the solution is a work in progress. Along with the practicalities of a material solution, there are societal issues of control / stability / equality, and reorganization to distance ourselves from the hierarchical pyramidal systems / organizations. So there are the main issues... how to organize, how to produce, how to reproduce, and how to ensure equal distribution.
As long as there is human suffering on this planet, I know there's more I need to do. As long as I remain true to principles and ideals of love / compassion, I know there's clarity even in fog. I know, because I took the time to develop skills on how to avoid the deception, not fall for the propaganda, not become complacent, not become self-obsessed.As long as you remain vigilant against the corrupting influences, the path is pretty apparent.
If you can keep your goal pure, the truth will show itself. If you muddy your ambitions, with lust / greed / self-interest, then you are liable to lose your way. I guess it merely comes down to, when you detach from seeking a preferred answer, you can see the answer that is really there. And this is the answer both You and Tip E. Canoe fear you will not recognize.
By the way, Alec Baldwin said something interesting the other day: "I started out as an actor, where you seek to understand yourself using the words of great writers and collaborating with other creative people. Then I slid into show business, where you seek only an audience’s approval, whether you deserve it or not. I think I want to go back to being an actor now."
Stay clear of show business, and remain an actor, and you will know what to do, when and why. Peace.
Etienne de la' Boetie, from A Discourse on Voluntary Servitude, 1548
Acetinker,
The problem is, the overlords read the same passage and in 1549, connived to mandate participation. And to a great extent, they make it very difficult to not participate in supporting them. And so, in many ways, we have been left with little option but to grab them by their collars / arms / legs and bring them down.
Ranger, I know you from somewhere. That said, yeah, they connived alright, but the people acquiesced in a big way- either by ignorance or allegiance to perceived personal gain.
We, collectively, reap what we sow- which right now, is nothing.
most people actually think and express exactly what TPTB want people to express and think.
indeed. now consider this: now that tinfoil is going mainstream, what's a tinfoiler supposed to express and think? maybe the patterns have been beta-tested already on tinfoil honeypots across the intertubes?
Tinfoil hats were soldier helmets all this time? Makes sense.
Tip E. Canoe,
I replied to You and Tickhound here. It seemed to me both of you were circling the same topic.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-24/conspiracy-theory-true-agents-i...
The Internet is new territory but the tactics of divide and rule are a proven and effective tool for conquer and enslavement.
Developed by the Romans and perfected over centuries by the British Empire, the thumbprint of the GCHQ in this case and the circulation list to the Crown’s territories: Australia, New Zealand and Canada could strongly support the contention that the City of London is the undeniable mother ship for such an infiltration.
That the USA was included with her vassal states suggests it is no more than just another occupied feudal territory hollowed out by a relentless and successful central bank hijacking of the American destiny...From Hamilton’s The First Bank of the United States to President Jackson’s successful crushing of The Second Bank of the United States, through the American Civil War, Lincoln and Garfield’s assassination, The Federal Reserve, 1933, JFK....the trail of bodies, death and financial destruction all possess the stealthy forensic tell-tale markings of one fiat banking superpower: the British Crown.
‘Special Relationship’ sounds better than highjacked zombie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship because there can be no American Republic in the service of global empire.
As the Internet becomes the global nexus for communication, resources, trade and finance it becomes the final theatre of battle for centrally planned control through hatred, deception and manipulation. The new frontier for control is perception. Define perception and you define reality.
Order from chaos. This is the final push.
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove[1]):
clearly our only hope is to create the maximum number of stand up comedy acts as is humanly possible.
also we must the use of the hashtag "/sarc" otherwise this clarifies "meaning" and allows for the "device" or "analogue platform" to "hone in on its target."
Francis Sawyer never had a chance. That guy was clear as bluebird call in his views. "with attention to detail" no less.
We need to sow "the confusion that is living life itself"...talk about things like "how we really don't get it" and "where we're headed is where we're at after all."
This "protocols" will simply regard it as "gobbleygook" and create "nothing but question marks" as a response.
Build up an "insane clown posse"...throw in various musical contrivances that have no bearing whatsover on the plot.
Basically "admit to the hopelessness of it all by blowing shit out our ass."
You know "i'm evil plan Zorg of the People Prelate and I have come here to rule over you. Respect me or pay the ultimate consequence."
Stick that in your friggin' algo bitch....
+1
For...
The new frontier for control is perception. Define perception and you define reality. -- palmereldritch
The holy grail of the propagandist. But the "new frontier" is simply the internet. Propaganda has been around as long as divide and conquer...
I prefer true chaos rising from false chaos.
If the chaos can be controlled or dicverted to a pre-determined end, it's false, the illusion of chaos. The real deal is a different story.
BTW, good post.
Want chaos? Create a shortage of necessities. Create the Chaos, Save the Day
Morris explains it rather well in just over 5 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f91KpPEcDg
the state is deliberately spreading lies
Now there's a motherfucking shocker.
"Fracture Points". Divide and conquer. Imagine!
It is upsetting, albeit not remotely surprising, and for two other reasons I didn't see mentioned in the article.
The first is that it breeds suspicion and distrust of all dissent. I myself have been accused of being a secret psy-op mole-person-whatever multiple times, for the simple fact that I disagree with someone. They think that what they think is so obvious and so certain that anyone with a differing view is a plant. Because of this, those few communities where honest dissenting thought is allowed to be discussed and debated (such as Zero Hedge, albeit moreso in the past) become echo chambers. Dissenters aren't just in the out-group, but actively trying to destroy you. And the concerns are warranted, because how can you tell the difference?
The second is that these so-called "hot button" issues will keep coming up, again and again. When was the last time you read the ZH comments section where there wasn't the same pro-vs-anti-zionist bickering, someone promoting or condemning AGW, claims about religion being exclusively a tool for social control, 9/11 debates? To keep from becoming an echo chamber, we ought to allow these discussions, but because of these problems, TPTB really will try to tear us apart over this.
So what to do? I have a rant on this I'll post as a reply to this. Read it if you like.
To those who are regarded as "conspiracy theorists," and the rest of us who know them, I'd like to have a brief word with you. I wish to extend a hand of reconciliation and propose an alliance.
A lot of people, especially those dancing around the terrible truths of our modern society, struggle with this aspect of what we might term our counter-cultural or anti-authoritarian movement. They are presented with and see clearly the evidence of the most conspicuous and public conspiracies - the Fed, regulatory capture, the big bank criminal cartels and their manipulation, and so on. If they didn't see that stuff at least, they wouldn't be anywhere near us. But then they get to the other questions, the ones that tend to be divisive even among those who wholeheartedly reject our current evil system. I mean the proposed conspiracies of 9-11 truthers, and Holocaust revisionists, and Climate Change deniers, the Zeitgeist atheists, and so on.
I think the motivator behind most of these theories isn't necessarily the evidence. People who believe these are conspiracies do dispute the evidence, but in my experience that isn't what's central to their claim. Their main reason is that they see these things being used as they are: tools for social control. They see quite plainly that 9-11/The Holocaust/Climate Change/The Moon Landing/religion/etc. are parts of a story that The Powers That Be use to control us. And they're right: those things ARE tools for social control.
The Moon Landing is a physical proof of American superiority and dominance of the world, the triumph of progress and technology over all obstacles, optimism incarnate. Climate Change ties every single activity in the country together and says that impacts everyone else, implying that it's legitimate to regulate and control EVERYTHING everyone does. The Holocaust is used as both a proof of the evils of any political system outside of our own and as a cover of political correctness, so that anyone who condemns the actions of Israel or their lobby or some Jewish person is an anti-Semite. And 9-11 is the central excuse for the creation of the surveillance state, the legitimizing event that allows the government to spy on everything we do and blow up American citizens with drones for being called a "terrorist" by the President, without trial. Religion is used as an opiate for the masses, a way to secure placidity in a population and provide them with a sense of community and well-being that's beneficial to those in charge.
The above paragraph is completely true, even indisputable to anyone who opens their eyes. But here's my contention: none of that has any bearing whatsoever on the truth of those events. We shouldn't reject the historical reality of the Holocaust because people use it as a tool for their agenda. It's myth-building and propaganda in the truest sense, but that doesn't require the events to be an orchestrated fiction. Slavery and colonialism are used, albeit less successfully, in much the same way - notice how all critics of Obama are racists by definition, and certain demographic issues are ignored in the name of multiculturalism. But this has no bearing on whether slavery and colonialism happened. They did. And, in my view, so did the Moon Landing, and the Holocaust, and an al-qaeda-orchestrated 9-11, and ongoing Climate Change. Religious experience, too, can be authentic while elements of religion are utilized for deeply evil purposes.
This is the takeaway. I'm not here to tell anyone what to think on these conspiracies. I just want to emphasize this fact: the use of some event for political purposes and mythic propaganda does not have any bearing on the truth or falsity of that event. Colonialism can be a historical reality AND be a myth abused for social control. We can be causing Climate Change and yet have it be exaggerated, distorted and abused to excuse authoritarianism. If anything, it's much SMARTER to use true events as your justification for authoritarianism. If the lie is exposed, you're in deep shit. You're much better off telling a lie of logic, that "if A, then B," even when it's not true, and then have A be true. People are much more susceptible to correlation/causation fallacies than they are to believing a highly-orchestrated historical falsehood. Why make one when you can warp the truth more effectively?
I don't think that makes me one of the "sheeple" (a term which, I might add, really needs to be retired). I think it means I have a different interpretation of events than you do. I have looked at the evidence. I have questioned the official story. I am fully cognizant of the fact that those in charge are evil; the idea that they would perpetrate a false flag like 9/11 and kill thousands of Americans gives me no pause or hesitation. If they thought they needed to, they'd do it. I just don't think they needed to. All they'd have to do is let those we trained and funded and who openly hate us actually accomplish what they publicly said they'd do. If they got wind of it, they'd just have to sit on the info for a day or two. You may well disagree, which again is totally fine. If we both agree that they're sociopaths who'd kill the people they're sworn to protect and use these events as tools of control, why get on each others' cases about our interpretations?
I propose a common cause. We can, of course, continue to discuss and debate the above issues. Nothing wrong with that. I am opposed to the typical tactics of political correctness used to shut down any honest debate The Powers That Be deem as beyond the pale. This, too, may be shocking to those new to our efforts, but opposing these forms of social control mean that a wide variety of opinions can be allowed. Those of us who are quite certain the Holocaust happened can make common cause with Holocaust deniers on these political questions, because we agree on that part, and I don't think they ought to be fined or jailed for disagreeing with me.
Let's forge an agreement to work together, even though we may differ on these issues, because we both acknowledge and oppose the social control. It is the abusive social control we agree upon, the social control that is the problem; the other questions, while important of themselves, are secondary in this political regard. We all agree that the people in charge are evil, our current system is evil, and it ought to be reformed, or replaced if reform fails and they drive it into the ground. Let's start being the kind of society we hope to form, the kind of people we want others to be. If we oppose authoritarianism, let's not be authoritarian toward each other. Let's at least show each other the kind of respect that those in charge refuse to give us.
You lost me on your 23rd paragraph. Might need to send that one to editing, bro.
Well, there's no requirement to read it. Feel free to scroll past. I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
Big fat miss with your comments on 9/11.
Carry on, soldier.
Keep to the five sentence rule. If you can't get it done with that....reassess.
Forgot to include the undeniable truth of the "so-called magic bullet". It's kinda sad that some people are still confused about that whole Kennedy assasination thing.
Apparently you are....
They did it, OK? 911, they did it. There isn't any debate because the facts preclude it. The rest of your thesis might be valid. BUT, they did IT!
I have reached a different conclusion than you. As I said, we both agree they're sociopaths with an evil agenda, and I'm perfectly okay with you thinking they did it. I don't think you're an idiot or a crackpot; I just disagree. My whole point is that if we hope to get past all this crap, in particular the use of moles to spread dissension, we need to not be at each other's throats over a secondary issue.
No, the battle you seem to be fighting is the one to keep highest level US complicity (and others) in the 9/11 event from reaching the broader American consciousness.
"It ain't what you don't know that'll get you. It's what you know for sure, that just isn't so." -Mark Twain
Um, western governments are taxing and regulating,where they arent subsidizing mandating and prohibiting, all sorts of things based on global warming being caused by humans. So there is an anti-denier coalition too. I have them tricked though. Buying' ALL foreign manufactured stuff now. Who says only the Internet can route around error?
d_senti:
You FAIL!!!
the Litmus Testhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21pPpYw_axQ
methinks the doth protest to much
So now I'm not only a mole when I say something disagreeable, but also when I say that we should work together. Sigh. Add another one to the list I suppose.
Can't we all just get along.......??
Spoiler alert; NO......!!
The human brain interprets reality the way it wants to - it is often prone to illusion.
Most people interpret reality the way they have been taught to. Very few actually interpret reality the way they want to. And much fewer still come close to true reality, if indeed such a thing can exist, given our understanding of physics at this time. It's too easy to call it illusion, people just really need to be more suspect of their own beliefs / opinions, and truly consider information from many opposing views, to see if they've been duped. I'd say we've been deceived. At such deep fundamental levels, we're not able to grasp at any reality. So many of us flounder in old traps.
Hitting em out of the park.
"lex parsimoniae"
Hitting em out of the park.
"lex parsimoniae"
Hitting em out of the park.
"lex parsimoniae"
Interesting triple haven't had that happen before.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/09/11/the-nsa-is-...
HIS NAME....
WAS FRANCIS SAWYER>
Not sure about the moon landing. The conspiracy theory may be BS -I don't know. haven't studied it that closely. Not sure about global warming and climate change - I think they are BS, but I don't know. I'm no expert. Not sure about chemtrails. I think they are real, but I don't know. What I see in the skies of dallas - very often -bothers me. I don't see how they can be "contrails".
I am quite certain that kennedy was not killed by a lone assasin -Lee harvey oswald. I am pretty sure Sirhan Sirhan was a patsy who did not kill RFK-at least not alone. I am pretty sure that MLK was not killed by the lone assasin james earl ray.
I am almost certain the "Holocaust" is about 80-90% fabricated and that there were no gas chambers that systematically killed 6 millions jews. that's what real evidence (and lack of credible evidence) tells me.
I am 99% certain that 9/11 was an inside job and we we have been fooled in the biggest con of the century ( likeley along with the Holocaust" myth/exaggeration.)
I will not agree to "work together" with people like you who are apparently trying to control and misdirect the masses from the truth. If 911 was an inside job, and the Holocaust is the "Holohoax" then we live in an Orwellian world of thought control where it is obvious that the media, educational instiutions, Wall Street and our Government are all controlled and manipulated by an evil and powerful group of elites who are playing us like the sheeple we are -for their own evil, selfish purposes.
no comment
but +1
Let me set you straight:
We landed on the moon, we can point a laser at a reflector we placed on. It allows us to meausure the distance to moon to extraordinary precision...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
Global warming, hence climate change is real....
Contrails are harmless.....
JFK, RFK and MLK were all done in by lone gunmen....
The Holocaust was very real (don't believe Francis Sawyer or David Irving)....
9/11 was primarily incompetance and indifference exploited ruthlessly for benefit, WTC 7 is a different story...
There is no such thing as climate change. Ask all the frozen solid woolly mammoths their opinions.
There is no such thing as climate change.
It's NOT settled.....not by a long shot.
Sorry.....secret agent man Flak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iaR3WO71j4
Head meet sand.....
Found Waldo!
well you're right about the moon, and deliberately wrong about 9/11. Global warming, regardless of causes, isn't "real". JFK certainly involved more than one weapon from more than one direction and you have to be a liar or incredibly obtuse to think otherwise at this point. The Nazi Holocaust of Jews was greatly overstated for political gains. [recall that the Auschwitz figures were adjusted down by some millions and that the Nuremburg kangaroo court blamed Germany for what we now know the {mostly Jewish} Bolshevik NKVD did to Polish officers in the Katyn Forest.
dunno about contrails - they certainly can exist harmless and by a simple process, but youer suggesting they are {all} harmless makes me want to look into the matter.
Also, organized Jewry/Zionists were essential to getting the United States into the First World War - in exchange for a homeland for the Jews in a land already occupied by 800,000-1,000,000 Arabs. We just arent supposed to talk about it.
I know you feel like a champion of morality, smiting the evil thoughtless racists of the world. But you're dishonest, brainwashed, and unwilling to consider evidence that you nevertheless dismiss.
You either want to ascertain what is/was true, or you don't. Some of the people you attack do not, but a lot do.
You clearly do not. Some of your claims and rejoinders are absurd.
Are you saying the Holocaust never happened? It certainly appears that way...
either 6 million (holocaust) or less (denier)
Is this your stance?
Edit: It certainly appears that way...
Well, if you use discredited analysis to downplay the magnitude, it does sort of smack of denialism, n'est ce que pas?
But why ask me, ask David Irving, he learned the hard way...
The fact you just lumped together all of those theories shows me you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
What a waste of keystrokes...
Yeah, that's fair assessment...
They use winning a gold medal at the olympics for social control. Right now most of Canada is worshipping anything to do with ice.
Good points, but you're going to lose to the ADD majority that uses the internet for information.
as for WWII - if the original story about the # killed at Ausch. was changed by millions, if the narrative of the Katyn Forest massacre was false, a deliberate lie by the Soviets and promulgated by the American press, and blamed on the Germans, at the Nuremburg show trials, even though the Germans had invited in the press and Red Cross to examine the mass graves in an area of Poland they had only recently taken from the {mostly Jewish} Bolshevik Army....
And no - revisionism isn't "denial" - it's challenging past narratives with new, or neglected, but reliable evidence. Those who use bad evidence are not revisionists, they're dissemblers. Global warming certainly is not "proven" in the sense you mean it...there is a scientific consensus, and it may not be wise to ignore it given the potential downside, but it is simply absurd to claim that the matter is settled.
Why would you spend so much time criticizing those who have doubts about official narratives. Indeed, it is your lack of doubt which is the primary problem when faced with a coercive, manipulative government and out of control, murderous deep state.
Fonestar and MillionDollarBonus come to mind.
As does that jagoff rick santelli...
And Theta_Burn
Dig back more than 2 yrs on old Dick, who he works/worked for
Who he blames/blamed for the subprime crisis
How he developed his ranting Santelli hr hit pc....on the exchange floor
But your right, ZH has portrayed ole Rick Champion of common sence these last couple yrs
Santelli is a frequent commenter is he? ;-)
With the amount of threads he gets? o.O
MillionDollarBonus sure... But do you really think a disinformation agent would pimp bitcoin??
MillionDollarBonus sure... But do you really think a disinformation agent would pimp bitcoin??
I don't think so with MDB. He is was too obvious on his pro everything statist postings ( yes I click on the link and read them sometimes) and it is satire. He is probably laughing his ass off when people take him seriously. He is way to obvious to be trolling. No one, not even Paul krugman himself, talks like that.
(Dis-info) Agents and the like, are fuckin traitors to the good people of the world...plain and simple.
They are the bottom feeding, scum sucking rats, that for a low wage - sell out good people who are just trying to make sense of this life and help others out which could even be their (agents) own family?!?!
I completely agree. Takes some serious loss of respect for humanity to become a mole.
I was always a little suspicious about Kito.
yeah you suspiciously ate his sandwich.
Lol....... Two of them.
Kito confessed to being a jew.
Oh vey... Really guy?
kito's comment
"Well Francis I'm Jewish and I support Ron Paul's foreign policy.....so I guess Francis THERE IS A DIFFERENCE....."
what is your point? Other than to note that Kito said he is Jewish and supported Ron Paul's foreign policy? The same Kito that is the first one to say that Francis Sawyer should be allowed to say whatever he wants on here?
I waited a half hour for your reply so I could eat you alive Tim. Smart move getting back under that rock.
Sometimes you wanna go ~ where everybody knows your na-a-ame :-)
~~~
@fonz
One thing that francis_sawyer [ALWAYS] did was to provoke you into thought... All he ever did was to present [in a very methodical way, as if he were presenting a case in a courtroom] facts, links, timelines, historical reportages, & as the case may be 'misreportages'...
I believe the reason he 'annoyed' many 'current' posters [on ZH], was because he eventually made you paint yourself into a corner of your own doing... He often used your own words against you...
francis_sawyer posted on MANY different things... At least half of his posts were 'jokes' & 'one liners' [strictly for laughs]... That's NOT a unique thing here on ZH [as this place is, for the REALLY TUNED IN], is COMEDY CENTRAL [which is an analogy that francis_sawyer often used]... He <3'ed 'LongSoupLine' and used to egg him on all the time... He used to try and find many DIFFERENT ways to tear into MillionDollarBonus [even though we all knew that MDB was a ruse]...
Besides the jokes, f_s regularly posted on things like home gardening, 'off grid' living, football handicapping, & other things... He used to praise hedgeless_horseman all the time & ask him questions... By the way ~ I wonder what happened to h_h?...
f_s used to REGULARLY invite people to do a 'lookup' on his posts [which is something that can EASILY be accomplished by anyone with an account]... He did it [KNOWING] that if you REALLY bothered to read the body of comments thru & thru, that although he was asking tough questions, he was NOT bigoted... Alas ~ the TRUTH is too much to bear for many people with pre-concieved notions, or worse... AN AGENDA...
Sadly ~ there is no way to verify this anymore because ZH has erased all of the comments that f_s ever made... So now ~ all that's left are people like Flakmeister & VD who never fail to hone in like a laser & portray f_s as a villian [though the green & red arrows prove that MOST people around here, including yourself, are capable of reading between the lines]...
francis_sawyer was doing fine until VD showed up on the scene... Strangely ~ VD showed up just about the time that the 'new policy' came into effect [around May 2013]... VD, now, regularly brags about having being responsible for 'deading' f_s... [as evidenced by this very thread ~ where VD breathlessly jumped in & got pole position]... VD is smart though ~ In this case, he managed to, somehow, toss in Cass Sunstein with f_s [which is kind of like posting that you hate both Obama & Ron Paul] ~ lol
~~~
Anyway ~ ZH folks... That's what you're left with... VD, a self proclaimed addiction sufferer [where the withdrawl effects are adderall psychosis], who jumps threads in a concerted effort to be the FIRST IN LINE to remind everybody who the 'BAD GUY' is...
"Adderall is no joke! Messed me up v badly..."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-22/all-drugged-overmedication-and-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-21/world-burning-around-them-fed-w...
If this comment gets deleted, you'll KNOW the truth...
Kito confessed to being a jew.
My drivers license lists me as a Caucasian.....so what does that make me?
What the hell does the word Caucasian even mean anyway?
I always have trouble keeping the tribes of Judah and Zebulon apart. They look so alike....it's hard to tell.
Oh lookie, a Francis wannabe....
He was also into some good music, which used to be a thing around here. Long gone are the nights of sitting in IRC listening to Marla spin tunes and participating in the real conversations that took place.
Oh well, all bubbles burst in the end.
LOLOL... Yea "Hy"... It sure is a shame that FS is never around anymore... If only to defend his sullied name... God bless.... I'll say hello to your good friend kito for you.... lol, too much
you can have sympathy for the jews, as they are not in charge of themselves, and they are going to get a messiah that they really wont like.
"confessed"?
Jesus its not a crime. Kito is predictably unwilling to be honest about Israel or disproportionate Jewish power, but in his shoes neither would I. Seems like a pretty good guy - able to maintain a sense of humor even when dealing wiith aggressive, and unequivocally racist, trolls.
Why is that? Just curious.
They haven't met you in real life yet? I mean really, it's the only logical step after they fail at controlling the message online..
Big brother is watching, and trolls are on the internet....I was hoping for a bit moar....
Sit tight. As long as Obama doesn't start WWIII with Russia in the next few moths we probably have 999,500 of the 500 documents Glenn Greenwald has already released courtesy of "Mr. PayPal's" stash.
.(dup)
Fonzanoon,,
What else were you hoping for from Snowden? Really?
The launch codes for ICBM's?
.
.
I think you soured out... and I think I know why.
Can you say "HASBARA" Good vee--dee I knew you could!
Every jew is a potential spy. Every jew is a potential saboteur. Every jew is a potential assassin. They are called sayanim.
By Way of Deception by Victor Ostrovsky
"The Mossad - believe it or not - has just 30 to 35 case officers, or katsas, operating in the world at any one time. The main reason for this extraordinarily low total, as you will read in this book, is that unlike other countries, Israel can tap the significant and loyal cadre of the worldwide Jewish community outside Israel. This is done through a unique system of sayanim, volunteer Jewish helpers" (p. xi).
"Sayanim — assistants — must be 100 percent Jewish. They live abroad, and though they are not Israeli citizens, many are reached through their relatives in Israel" (p. 86).
"There are thousands of sayanim around the world. In London alone, there are about 2,000 who are active, and another 5,000 on the list" (p. 86).
"One thing you know for sure is that even if a Jewish person knows it is the Mossad, he might not agree to work with you — but he won't turn you in. You have at your disposal a nonrisk recruitment system that actually gives you a pool of millions of Jewish people to tap from outside your own borders. It's much easier to operate with what is available on the spot, and sayanim offer incredible practical support everywhere" (p. 87).
"The one problem with the system is that the Mossad does not seem to care how devastating it could be to the status of the Jewish people in the diaspora if it was known" (p. 87).
My, I never knew we had a bigoted asshole of such impeccable credentials in our midst. You clearly have been at it for a while...
Do you own an original first edition of "The Protocols of the Zionist Elders"?
Pollard grew up with what he called a “racial obligation” to Israel, and made his first trip to Israel in 1970, as part of a science program visiting the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot. While there, he was hospitalized after a fight with another student. One Weizmann scientist remembered Pollard as leaving behind “a reputation of being an unstable troublemaker, the worst case of this kind in the history of the summer camp”. After completing high school, Pollard attended Stanford University, where he completed a degree in political science in 1976. While there, he is remembered by several of his acquaintances as boasting that he was a dual citizen of the United States and Israel and claiming to work for the Mossad and to have attained the rank of colonel in the Israel Defense Forces. None of these claims were true.
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/glenn-greenwald-using-snowde...
"every jew" certainly goes way too far, but then so does your selective outrage.
The US does not have legions of Palestinian or Arab versions of Richard Perle, Alan Dershowitz, Doug Feith, Bill Kristol, or the dually loyal Jews who infested the Office of Special Plans to lie us into a war on Iraq, for Israel, in accordance with position papers they had written - for Israel, and which were the Likudnik progeny of the Oded Yinon plan, accepted by far-right Zionism. Which, Flake, is both unequivocally racist and megalomaniacal even when merely secular Jewish nationalism, but especially odious and frightening and purposefully deceptive when married to Jewish religious myth. A million people died, largely because of a Zionist 5th Column and their confederates in the media.
Fuck you, Flake.
Open your eyes.
They are wide open, which is why I see you for exactly what you are...
No, Flake - you see only what you expect to see, and discount the rest.
Not only am I a more intelligent a thinker than you imagine, I am a more intelligent thinker than you can imagine.
I am also more honest.
If I actually could have hate for the set of all X, I'd simply say so.
his name is tyler....our name is tyler your name is tyler ...my name is tyler... we are tyler....get the idea that true protection of life and liberty is in building local community? now we just define broad easy rules of society...hmmm. where is thomas jefferson's hemp stash when we really need it... first a big sheet of vellum and some quill pens and ink..
oh is that right?? already been done?? couple hundred years ago ya say??? darn and i had a great opening line all made up... guns? you mean folks had guns at one time!?
wow...
thanks ZH turning up the deep thought lately...
his name is tyler
You were just here last week.....is this a test sir?
francis was no agent. You, on the other hand....
Joseph Stalin's Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States
"In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system."
"Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty."
How long have you been paid by the GRU, or are you a "company" man...
I guess Solzhenitsyn was full of it?
But Sunstein knows what is best for you. Don't you see that? He's a hardcore leftist, and is therefore morally superior and more intelligent than you.
Which part of that don't you understand?
Just search Google for HB Gary and read about them on wikipedia. My Ron Paul site was hacked by a personna Each computer has multiple IP numbers and personnas. Taken over by the US Air Force. Just a needle in the hay stack of snooping by the NSA
Aaaannndd..., they're here!
and have some shitty power point slide templates. i've used a few of the above in my own sleep-inducing presentations, though nothing quite as elementary on how to troll (although they do have some fancy looking graphics!)
fuckers!
Man, e-James Bond had better be a far more skilled trainer in the black ops of Trolling than PPT. That blue on blue pitch book chart of social media vectors + clipboard filler slides? horrible.
power point slide templates...
I remember seeing a version of slide 44 on a government agency's business card. A picture of 3 gears, each engaged with one another. The bright engineer of that set up actually thought it would convey a productive device, displaying co-operative interaction. In reality it said more about the true uselessness and impediment to progress of the agency than anyone could have dreamed of.
Yup! And "By their friuts shall ye know them":
The TDs work their nuts off to produce a quality product, which is why we owe the blog side an equally hi level of posts.
Those who habitually add Noise or Derail, are degrading the overall level, as you have to go through tons of fluff or crap to get to decent posts. Ditto for low-brow posts. Sorry, I'm a snob that way.
Nothing wrong with a controversial or provocative remark, but hopefully it adds enough value to move the yardsticks forward.
Yeah, they've been around a long time, though I do think they stepped up their game the past year or so.
This is one of the reasons I never accept "relationship requests" here. It's happened a half dozen times, and it's always someone where I have no fucking clue who they are.
I'm pretty sure if a handful of the IT-ish people here on ZH had access to IP address logs on users, we'd have a field day exposing the disinformation agents and the companies they work for.
I admit I know very little about this kind of thing, so this may be a stupid question but: couldn't the TD's, who would have access to that type of thing, get rid of those profiles relatively easily if they wanted to. It took a little bit of waiting to get a log in here, why is that if not to make sure it's an actual person? And also, when people like Francis sawyer get banned, if they enjoy arguing with people on here enoug to do so much of it, what's stopping them from making a new gmail account and setting up a new account? Cuz it would be pretty fuckin obvious if he was still around. I would appreciate any of y'all's answers because I am pretty curious about it
Assuming there was a discernable pattern and they wanted to make the effort, I'm sure the TDs could do this. The flip side is that the longer the sockpuppets post, the more exposed they become, so there's probably some value in letting them run free.
As far as I know, the login thing is to kill spammers. Not that it doesn't happen, but real spamming on ZH is a rare, rare thing.
Nothing is stopping Francis 2.0 from setting up a new account under a different IP, but if the same postings reappeared, the outcome would be the same. It's also possible if the TDs knew something via the IPs, they could discuss exposure.
For what it's worth, there are other forums that are likely honeypots where if you discuss certain things, you will get zapped instantly, so ZH's high tolerance for crap actually lends credibility. (Hint: say "tavistock" on godlikeproductions and you're gone. GLP and abovetopsecret also both went down during the federal government budget shutdown to the minute when the federal websties went offline. This rabbit hole is deep.)
Don't think I've ever been to those sights, but I def won't now. Good to know. How could they be that fucking a vinous though. Seeing as how only like 17% of the govt actually shut down, you would think that would be one of the last things that would shut down.
Don't think I've ever been to those sights, but I def won't now. Good to know. How could they be that fucking a vinous though. Seeing as how only like 17% of the govt actually shut down, you would think that would be one of the last things that would shut down.
FS lives!!! But he can't be his own sweet self for the obvious reason that he would be spotted in about 12 seconds. But don't be depressed. There are apparently many other anti-Semites willing to take his place. They're just not as entertaining as he could be. And that's the thing about banning. Are we all just screen names and avatars? Or personalities and belief systems, "prejudices" if you will, that can be spotted a mile away if anyone bothers to look closely enough. FS does lurk around from time to time, but it can't be much fun for him as he can't be himself, or at least his online self. And as for the people who think MBD was a gov't troll, man that's a whole other galaxy of cluelessness.
And if there are spies here? Spy away you limp dick cocksuckers.... Your day is coming no matter what kiddie games you play...
Milliondollarbonus, you've been outed!
Shhh! He's one of us. He's the covert agent designed to trick government informants into thinking that ZH'ers are just peachy with the status quo. They'd never, ever, suspect that he was being sarcastic.
Don't forget Fonestar.
I'd like to, but I keep being reminded.
Of course they're doing it. It's good to have proof though. So, Tyler / ZH admins. Could you please pull together a list of troll accounts, do an IP mapping and profile the browser and other information for analysis??? It would be interesting to see an anonymized data set to see what we're dealing with.
Can a fingerprint be generated?
Are they using TOR, or some sort of VPN service, or are they out in the open?
Come on guys. Do the world some help. If you need help or ideas, contact me. This could be interesting.
agents would mask their IP or even misdirect it (to poss innocent parties), so that's a futile request...
Browsers can be fingerprinted, and other tricks can be used to unmask hosts. Check out BEEF (Browser exploitation framework).
i promise you the NSA, when need be, exploit the exploitation and misderect when necessary..
says the .gov troll lol
I agree that Cass is an assmaggot of the devil.
The NSA uses code written by Booz Allen, LM, GD, NG, etc. There will be problems. They may be powerful, but they're not omnipotent. I'm sure there's some element of sloppiness.
If you haven't looked before, go check out Bruce Schneier's site. www.Schneier.org For a couple months, he's been floating each NSA tool and discussing how they can be broken, detected, etc. This would make a great collaboration. ZH should contact Bruce and ask him to post a challenge to identify these bastards.
those are the codes that can be referenced, but what about codes that no one is yet aware of?
A one-time pad in trained hands is theoretically uncrackable.
FYI
A lot of work, but hey, if it's worth it.......
Dude, come on. They're the government. MI6 from James Bond was fiction, not reality.
defeatable.
BYOB
build your own browser.
You can too...http://www.hotspotshield.com/
The people using Tor or a VPN are probably real (not spy) people. The spooks can easily fake any sort of real address.
Out the serial downvoters!
Yeah, even my sweet-ass website that gets 2 viewers a day is even blocked at the DoD... www.TopTheNews.com
DUDE! I laugh EVERY time i see ur avatar: Robot Trader's Mom!! LMFAO (again)
Twitter is full of em. I wonder how much they get paid to spam bammercare? I asked one of the trolls but they wouldnt break character
A lot of that shit is AI. They even have AI machines doing telemarketing now. Some of them are pretty damn creepy.
they wouldnt break character...
...So there is life after being a Disney charactor in the park.