This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And Destroy Reputations"
In the annals of internet conspiracy theories, none is more pervasive than the one speculating paid government plants infiltrate websites, social network sites, and comment sections with an intent to sow discord, troll, and generally manipulate, deceive and destroy reputations. Guess what: it was all true.
And this time we have a pretty slideshow of formerly confidential data prepared by the UK NSA equivalent, the GCHQ, to confirm it, and Edward Snowden to thank for disclosing it. The messenger in this case is Glenn Greenwald, who has released the data in an article in his new website, firstlook.org, which he summarizes as follows: "by publishing these stories one by one, our NBC reporting highlighted some of the key, discrete revelations: the monitoring of YouTube and Blogger, the targeting of Anonymous with the very same DDoS attacks they accuse “hacktivists” of using, the use of “honey traps” (luring people into compromising situations using sex) and destructive viruses. But, here, I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself." Call it Stasi for "Generation Internet."
Greenwald's latest revelation focuses on GCHQ’s previously secret unit, the JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group).
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums. Here is one illustrative list of tactics from the latest GCHQ document we’re publishing today:
Other tactics aimed at individuals are listed here, under the revealing title “discredit a target”:
Then there are the tactics used to destroy companies the agency targets:
Critically, the “targets” for this deceit and reputation-destruction extend far beyond the customary roster of normal spycraft: hostile nations and their leaders, military agencies, and intelligence services. In fact, the discussion of many of these techniques occurs in the context of using them in lieu of “traditional law enforcement” against people suspected (but not charged or convicted) of ordinary crimes or, more broadly still, “hacktivism”, meaning those who use online protest activity for political ends.
The title page of one of these documents reflects the agency’s own awareness that it is “pushing the boundaries” by using “cyber offensive” techniques against people who have nothing to do with terrorism or national security threats, and indeed, centrally involves law enforcement agents who investigate ordinary crimes:
Greenwald's punchline is disturbing, and is sure to make paradnoid conspiracy theorists crawl even deeper into their holes for one simple reason: all of their worst fears were true all along.
No matter your views on Anonymous, “hacktivists” or garden-variety criminals, it is not difficult to see how dangerous it is to have secret government agencies being able to target any individuals they want – who have never been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes – with these sorts of online, deception-based tactics of reputation destruction and disruption.
The broader point is that, far beyond hacktivists, these surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they’ve been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats. As Anonymous expert Gabriella Coleman of McGill University told me, “targeting Anonymous and hacktivists amounts to targeting citizens for expressing their political beliefs, resulting in the stifling of legitimate dissent.” Pointing to this study she published, Professor Coleman vehemently contested the assertion that “there is anything terrorist/violent in their actions.”
At this point Greenwald takes a detour into a well-known topic: Cass Sunstein. Who is Cass Sunstein? Recall: "Obama Picks Cass Sunstein (America’s Goebbels?) To Serve On NSA Oversight Panel."
Government plans to monitor and influence internet communications, and covertly infiltrate online communities in order to sow dissension and disseminate false information, have long been the source of speculation. Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviser and the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government. Ironically, the very same Sunstein was recently named by Obama to serve as a member of the NSA review panel created by the White House, one that – while disputing key NSA claims – proceeded to propose many cosmetic reforms to the agency’s powers (most of which were ignored by the President who appointed them).
But while until now there was speculation that Sunstein's policies had been implemented, there was no proof. That is no longer the case:
... these GCHQ documents are the first to prove that a major western government is using some of the most controversial techniques to disseminate deception online and harm the reputations of targets. Under the tactics they use, the state is deliberately spreading lies on the internet about whichever individuals it targets, including the use of what GCHQ itself calls “false flag operations” and emails to people’s families and friends. Who would possibly trust a government to exercise these powers at all, let alone do so in secret, with virtually no oversight, and outside of any cognizable legal framework?
What is perhaps most disturbing is the level of detail these modern day Stasi agents engage in, paradoxically proposing social subversion without realizing they themselves would be susceptible to just that. And all it would take is one whistleblower with a conscience:
Under the title “Online Covert Action”, the document details a variety of means to engage in “influence and info ops” as well as “disruption and computer net attack”, while dissecting how human being can be manipulated using “leaders”, “trust, “obedience” and “compliance”:
The documents lay out theories of how humans interact with one another, particularly online, and then attempt to identify ways to influence the outcomes – or “game” it:
Greenwald's conclusion is spot on:
These agencies’ refusal to “comment on intelligence matters” – meaning: talk at all about anything and everything they do – is precisely why whistleblowing is so urgent, the journalism that supports it so clearly in the public interest, and the increasingly unhinged attacks by these agencies so easy to understand. Claims that government agencies are infiltrating online communities and engaging in “false flag operations” to discredit targets are often dismissed as conspiracy theories, but these documents leave no doubt they are doing precisely that.
Whatever else is true, no government should be able to engage in these tactics: what justification is there for having government agencies target people – who have been charged with no crime – for reputation-destruction, infiltrate online political communities, and develop techniques for manipulating online discourse? But to allow those actions with no public knowledge or accountability is particularly unjustifiable.
So the next time you run into someone in a chat room or a message board who sounds just a little too much like a paid government subversive... it may not be just the paranoia speaking. For the full details "why not", read the formerly confidential slideshow below.
»
- 124243 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
finished reading all that, ZH Trolls? Over to you now,
....aaaaand GO!
Ananonymous Harry Wanger blogging MillionDollarBonus kinda infiltraitors?
The first rule of Online Covert Action is: you don't talk about Online Covert Action.
What a circle jerk.
I just read that Sonny Liston took a dive... and now this!! I'm crushed!
it's been blatantly obvious from the beginning
I have a couple LinkedIn Groups and they get hammered by requests to join by blatant Sock Puppets -there usually is an easy way to spot these Mr socko's - just look for the people with only one job listed or those whom type in all lowercase, Oh ya, or Criminal Justice majors -- keep wading through the crap
Cass Sunstein aka Mr Samantha Power is a douchebag. Feel free to rebut
SunSwine is a filthy slut and a neo-con progressive that eats young children. The psychopaths he works for are worse.
Cannot rebut the truth about Cass Sunstein and Valerie Jarrett.
Valerie Jarret - most powerful woman hardly anyone has heard of. What a scummy entourage bath house brings with him.
more accurate to say, what a scummy president this cabal of evil shitbags put into power.
Valerie Jarret....aka....Madam President.
Dude makes a wicked ham sando .
Anybody who down arrows this...
They used to call this stalking and it is supposed to be punishable under law...
That was way back in the days when we had law.......
Don't shoot 'til you see the blue of their skinny pants!
Big brother is watching and actively trying to influence the conversation. Shocker. Would you go down without a fight?
I see zombies everywhere. On the lirr. Walking down 7th Ave. The government trolls are probably 40% of the uniques of zh. They are probably bored with the lack of critical thinking they find. They probably have think tanks Trying to figure out ways to fight an adversary who doesn't know they're in a fight and wouldn't care if they did.
We're/they're all Fucked. Grow a garden. Enjoy the sunshine and family while you can. dirt naps for everyone eventually
The closer I get to the 'nap' the less I give a fuck!
Sockpuppets , who knew ?
I knew Flak was a plant! lulz
Not sure about Flakey being a plant, I think more likely he/or she is a late 20's dude living in momma's basement just stirring shit up whenever he can. His form of entertainment maybe.......
with a serious hard on for the global warming scam. all these guys have one signature issue they just can't leave alone.
Better to know a lot about something as opposed to nothing about everything as seems the case with you...
BTW, you forgot, oil, NG and energy in general...
The Working Group II (WGII) contribution to the Fifth Assessment Report on impacts, adaptation and vulnerability will be considered in Yokohama, Japan, on 25-29 March 2014. One month.
Tick Tick Tick
Clearly, you ain't a True Detective...
I'll give you a hint, google Flakmeister...
Should be obvious who the real one is....
lol...tell me something I don't know.
I've been called a global warming denier, a rabbi, a shill, a globalist and a white supremacist razzzist all on one thread, its quite an accomplishment...ROTFL!!!
In that case, will you please decide what you are? ;-)
I'm vacillating between full blown anarchist and smaller government type right now. And I'm not sure I'll respect myself in the morning whichever way it goes ;-)
Rabbi nmewn, just what the fuck is a nmewn anyway ???
nmewn?, nmewn?, anyone?...
Its shorthand for enemy within. I thought of it in the context of when I traded a lot, how the emotions of fear & greed were working on my mind, for good & bad.
Now to anyone who knows what it means (as I don't trade like I used to), it can mean many different things to many different people, under all sorts of circumstances...from the fantastical to the real.
Which is still kinda cool, for a screen name, some people thought I was Japanese for a long time...lol.
nmewn; an obstipated cat.
I hear you on that one. I go back and forth. "What's the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist? About 6 months..."
anarchism is a broad family of political points of view. I had a lot of fun lately listening to a debate between eastern european anarcho-capitalists and western european anarcho-syndacalists - you could have thought they were from Mars and Venus, respectively
meanwhile libertarian thought as such has a strong American cultural component, and seems to resonate only in the UK. at the same dabate a couple of guys said something very interesting about that, that I can only summarize as: "Libertarians seem to believe that you can strip the state from it's legislative and executive branches and nevertheless keep a sound, functioning judicative up and running". and that was the kindest remark - besides "useless" - they had for libertarians
I don't mind the trolls and the agents on a blog like ZH. what freaks me out is the true believers that don't evah change their opinion even when faced with new facts
and the old nihilists. young men are entitled to feel nihilistic, from time to time
WOW, you got me beat by one, Nice Job!!!
Out of all this covert lying and media runiation along with red sates blue states and black vs white etc. what do these idiots hope to gain?
Not much of a surprise ...
just another confirmation.
What a F&*King WASTE of money and brainpower...power really does absolutely corrupt!
That crossed my mind too. Using money taken from productive people to do this, most of which we borrow anyway. Unbelievable.
Who the fuck cares? (rhetorical question)
Think for yourself. Enough of the truth is evident regardless of the noise. And screw the details... that is where idiots get distracted.
This is fight club folks. Bring the .GOV trolls. Makes for a better comments section. Game on.
at the bowling alley we would fight for shits and grins. bloody nose black eye and moar beer. all good fun.
love to put a gob stooge in the mix!
Right on brother. Trolls are easy to spot here. And they are a lot of fun to decimate.
Please look up where the word 'decimate' comes from.
I want 'em all gone, not just 10%
You will notice a strange phenomenom amongst people who don't know what the fuck they are doing and can't even identify problems, let alone solve them. And that is, they will do everything except what matters. They will spy on folks, paint the walls, install new carpet, etc, etc. Ii have seen this over and over in my illustrious career...
05:00 and I wake up to a troll infestation... what a way to start the morning.
There are too many central banks, printing too much money, for too many governments, funding too many .gov shills on all sides. It would have been nice- as long as they were disclosing shit, to disclose what the rest of the world was up to, since it's probably more of the same.
But (as far as I know) only the US is capable of such blatant and grotesque Powerpoint abuse. The trolls and the Powerpoint Rangers both need to be removed from the public payrolls. Doesn't anyone write memos and reports anymore? Or has going 140 characters without a severe case of graphic incontinence become a skill worthy of a Senate confirmation hearing among the taxpayer funded desk-jockey class?
Edit: Coffee works wonders for typos (as well as computer screens).
*sigh* 9:35 meeting I run, every.fucking.day, for the employees reporting to me...full report on daily changes to a/r, a/p, bank deposits, eft, and a/r aging balance...along with recognizing birthdays and other company news of the day with some sorry assed humor thrown in.
Yes, there are still a few of us that actually write memos and reports.
Government is too big, period. It's only getting bigger.It will not shrink on its own. We the people will have to march on and occupy DC, shutting down the seat of power, in order to effect change. When the hell is that ever gonna happen? OK, sorry. Back to TeeVee..."bring me a beer, Honey!"
Create more jobs, hire a troll for the .gov and give him 85 grand a year with all the bennies and retirement @40 w/full pay..wtf do i sign?
I am not a troll.
prove it
I'm not trying to Impress you... But I'm Batman!...
Is that James Holmes holding up the note before he entered the movie theater? We'll probably find out through one of million plus files that "Ed" managed to abscond with that James and "Team Sandy Hook" had a short stint at NSA or Langleyville?
Too weird for words people.
But as signifcant as this information is in getting back our Freedoms, are enough of us in this Country even awake?
And does it even matter anymore when we see our President and Congress taking us to the brink of World War III and nobody but nobody even blinks when you talk about what we are seeing?
I'm very suspicious of alot of the new "pro-gun" hotheads that have been popping up on alot of the regular news outlets. Very quick to suggest "action" and often naming names but the posts don't get removed for some reason. Very "spammy" in the way they articulate. Its getting really weird out there.
Ah, I see what you're saying now, my bad.
I've seen that too. I think they're trying to provoke violence. Violence they can use, fight against, redirect, manipulate, etc.
I'm very suspicious of alot of the new "pro-gun" hotheads that have been popping up on alot of the regular news outlets.
Smiley it's good that you are suspicious and stay that way. Don't know if you remember the 4th of July stunt that Adam Kokesh was going to pull in the Nation's Capital by bringing firearms to Washington D.C. loaded as a statement for the 2ND Amendment.
Needless to say many of us knew who this guy was beforehand and where it was headed. A number of people deluged his "very professionally" done website with mail calling him a lunatic and that if he were to March on Washington and bring fellow protestors with him it would be open season with the Park Police. I think it was a set up, some have disagreed with me, but I wrote him one hell of a note telling him that if he got any fellow demonstrators shot marching from Arlington Va into D.C. he'd be hearing from a very large group of 2nd Amendment followers.
Needless to say your's truly finished it by saying you can demonstrate with signs and letters more effectively bringing attention to your message than loading a gun in front of hundreds of very well armed Park Police.
Anybody seen Mr. Kokesh lately, or know what happened to him? Read some of the bios out there on him and where he came from or should I say where he "comes from".
Keep staying suspicious but at the same time keep communicating your good judgement when you know paid people have bad intentions.
Kokesh is out of Federal Prison now, about a month ago, the feds dropped the Felonies, and he plead to a misdemeanor, got 2yr probation/parole [same difference in the feds and I have NEVER heard of 2yrs being given out], and now he is traveling all around the US on a book tour while on Fed Parole. Now without going in to a big tirade on this, "If" anyone thinks that this is how the Feds operate when YOU VIDEOTAPE yourself Commiting a FELONY in DC by loading a gun on Pennsylvania Ave, and then just hit you with the Misdemeanors, well I don't know what to tell you.
So YES IMO Adam Kokesh is Hal Turner 2.0, period end of sentence, and anyone that supports him and or is around him is an ENEMY of anyone that Supports Freedom.
Where do my thoughts come from, well I spent 5 yrs and 4 months in Federal Prison for Failure to pay that sales tax on the private sale of a Firearm, so I know how the system works, and I will tell you that his shit Stinks of a FUCKING RAT, and I look forward to one day soon saying it to his Face.
kokesh is definitely, at a minimum, not what he claims to be.
He and Alex Jones may have the same boss.
ADAM IS THE MAN
might be a fun sign to follow him with on his Grand Parole Tour, especially if you can sneak behind him when he's mugging in front of the camera.
triple entendres are always good for a proper mindfuck on MIL-trained brains.
An upvote for you. Always make the assumption that someone trying to talk you into an illegal act is a fed on a fishing expedition. Because it is.
Guilty, sorry. I get pissy from time to time.
it all make ya kinda wonder if a wall phone, a hand written message and a walk/drive to the neighbors/friends/family home(s) is
where it is at...maybe it is time to truely just say no and disconnect. i spend 180/month for two cells and internet.
fucken eh x 12=2160/yr, hmmmm.
I highjack my internet with an antenna and pay 50 a month cell phone.. no smart phone either..fvkem
...maybe it is time to truely just say no and disconnect
You know NG I thought the same as you many times on this subject, but I look at it as a two edged sword.
They can use it as the ultimate instrument of manipulation abuse and blackmail that it is, but they also leave themselves with a thousand cuts as well.
Ed Snowden and his colleagues understand that point all too well and that's why the cracks through time and attrition eventually turn into "deep fissures". The lack of respect and betrayal takes it's toll and becomes a burden for everyone that has to participate in it especially when it is your livelihood and the people paying your paycheck don't even know it.
I say let 'em, so that we can keep breaking them down to show them what a destructive and unproductive force they have become in our lives using a technology that has had so many positive benefits -especially in capturing things that this Government has done to us that otherwise would never have been captured or witnessed by the public through the lens of the MSM.
When the Shit hits the fan, just be an Army of One... :)
you have to have a certain Sense of Humor to Post on ZH.. Trolls can't replicate a sense of Humor
The Government folds when everybody sits down in the Roads and doesn't go to Work. the riots are just for Color..
The preference is, the spoken word, not written like here, recorded for posterity (or deleted, never to be seen again) by whoever.
But everyone should already know that by now ;-)
I have a taliban throw-away that I bought for $5 that gives double minutes. I paid $40 for 400 x 2 minutes. I currently have over 500 minutes on my shitty little phone,,,enough to last me a year or more. I have no contract, no identity on a server and only my contacts know who I am.
I don't constantly finger fuck the phone. It's in my pocket in case of emergencies only, but people do call me because I'm a techno-phillic Charismatic.
PhoneStar is a paid Government Schill I bet. TO Discredit Bitcoin.
God this is a fucking nightmare.
Jim Cramer: "I'm not a paid goverment shill, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night..."
WINNING!!!
Went to the Bank today,
A 20+ year old "Executive" gave me a lecture on the need for heightened security and strong passwords, etc. (I amight add as my account was being creamed since I went away, for almost 3 months to current - and they didn't believe who I was over the telephone, despite secret passwords, etc.)
I asked him, :What's the point of all this when the Americans NSA and all the government agencies are allowed to access any account they wish at anytime, by the Bank itself so they don't need passwords?
He replied: But they are government and they are allowed!
We are doomed.
But, at least, now I know.
Ho hum
Now you know ;-)
American citizen to a sheeple: "How could you allow them to take your family and put them on a train?"
Sheeple: "But they are government and they are allowed!"
"There will be blood, the question is whose."
What someone said in a discussion:
"..I am not in a position to make a stand...a difference...or be a hero..
The nazis are in control totally weaved thru the top end and the bottom end...and us mids are strapped by regulations threatened by prison..
"
I work at a bank. I deal with zeros like your "executive" every day. It saddens me.
Fuck Obamcare. Fuck Global Warming. Fuck the FED. Fuck the endless and unconstitutional "Wars" in Foreign lands. Fuck the IRS. Fuck 99% of Congress. And Fuck butterscotch pudding; I hate that shit.........
Longsoupline?
he was agnostic on butterscotch pudding if my memory serves correctly.
Butterscotch pudding...
Should be used to over feed congress in a giant pay per view showing till the end; no bathroom breaks.
How dare you sir. That is not remotely in keeping with tradition.
Next thing you will be calling for a ban on queefing.
I like butterscotch pudding though.
Fuck butterscotch pudding
+1 for a new meme
Huh.
Oh, ye of blind faith. Did you expect the government to be honorable?
Why is it that the only thing government can do right is to find ways to fuck with us?
because they are fucking fuckers, thats why.
When your only tool is to fuck with people...
Why, there here to help themselves of course.
Here's a good one, don't know if you caught it when I posted it a few months back but its "generally" a good way to spot them, they do have their habits of conformity ;-)
kafkatrapping:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122
thanks for the link bro.
hadn't read that before...very insightful.
word of the day :: panchreston : an argument from which anything can be deduced because it is not falsifiable. The subject must be prevented from noticing that this logic convicts and impeaches the operator of the kafkatrap!
Here's an interesting take on that.
The gnostics had an interesting take on this, too, and were persecuted for their beliefs (generally a sign that you're on the right track).
so did "Don Juan", he called them the flyers.
“All we can do is discipline ourselves to the point where they will not touch us,” Don Juan advises.
Thanks for that, interesting link.
butterscotch pudding or butterscotch anythig fvkin sx shit
stick us all in the cage and poke us with a stick you mutherfvkers!
just another day in the life of Mossad
As long as people can be kept occupied venting their anger verbally they won't be calmly sighting in their scopes, maybe squeezing off a few practice rounds.
Believe you me, my ranch is well defined; sighted out from a mile.
Provide controlled venting. Part of controlling the opposition.
In Gold We Trust.
What else is left.
Nothing, that you can Trust.
maybe Silver.
Ho hum
Agreed.
All of this has a numbing effect.
From what well will we draw our strength?
What words will give us hope?
...with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
Men sure believed it hundreds of years ago. I won't discount those words even today.
When you're drowning in an ocean of corruption, the blame game is beyond easy.
Notice how blame is apportioned at ZeroHero. It's all about banksters, corps, lobbyists, and of course the wealthy. Apparently even if the wealth comes from reasonable products and reasonable prices since distinctions aren't made.
The political class? Oh they're just unimportant lackeys. If we just had honest ones they would save us from the bad people and well uh, ya know ourselves. That's right 7 billion little Swedebots, or is it Danebots now, (I've heard dark rumors)coming up as ordered.
I don't get that sense at all, kellyhero: if anything, I think that ZH (and the rabble like me in the comments) are very clear that the political class is the root cause of the problem... and that the banksters etc are simply responding to skewed incentives and fixing the game because the political class allows them to.
Obviously ZH is not an all-out anarchist forum, but most folks get a sense of what's up with the megalomaniacal sociopathic baby-killers that are the main contestants for political power.
+1 GeoffreyT.
We anarchists don't look so 'mindlessly utopian' now, do we?
As we have been saying since the fucking 4th century BCE (specifically, Chuang-tzu: "A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a State"), when you put in place a system that rewards those who crave power, you wind up being ruled by psychopaths.
inb4 "Who will build the roads?" The question of infrastructure provision under anarchy was answered in about the 14th century: read a fucking book.
And last but not least: bear in mind that the folks who did Abu Ghraib and Auschwitz were not anarchists. It takes a State to perpetrate industrialised carnage, and it will never want for sociopaths to act on its orders.
Anarchism - no leader.
No leader - no war.
personal responsibility and honest exchange.
Scary for the parasitic class, hence the demonization of the word.
The Mongols killed more people, by far, than Hitler, without anything what could be called a 'state'.
Anarchism is the idealism of people who have little understanding of evolutionary or behavioral psychology. And it is pointless to argue with them. They have a theoretical answer to every real problem, and a dogmatic belief that anyone opposing their view merely loves government, and/or can not free their minds... reading books is great. When was the last time you read one criticizing your position?
Idealism without Pragmatism tends to Extremism which is antithetical to the ideal.
Look up Democide
Murder by state
over 250 million dead, mostly at the hands of their own state in the last century alone (University of Hawaii study for the numbers)
If the word anarchy scares you (TPTB are masters at redefining words), then call it consensual governance, or do you have a problem with that too?
you need to read more carefully and react less before you understand. I have considered anarchy quite carefully.
More to the point here, I at no time claimed governments did not kill people.
So why would you suggest I did if you were honestly trying to respond. You didn't consider a thing I wrote.
Idealists don't have to, neither do the religious.
Why consider any other argument when everyone opposed to it is mistaken, right?
No disrepect intended; but I've broken my one of my own rules - don't argue religion with the religious, don't argue philosophy with Ayn Rand devotees, and don't argue with anarchists.
I've seen all these movies. Believe in whatever fantasy land you wish.
Your problems will still be here when you return.
Johnny! Where did you pull this one from?
I must tip my cap for what is likely your most consise and insightful post...
Maybe there is hope...
Learn to clean up the white space though...
when you put in place a system that rewards those who crave power, you wind up being ruled by psychopaths.
+1 for striking the root. the eternal problem seems to be that, over time, power always seems to attract itself to itself and create a magnetic field that is greater than the sum of its parts. if this is true, then the question is how to put in place a system that shortcircuits those connections in the first place.
Years ago Richard Gage was touring around making a brilliant case that fires couldn't have caused WTC7 to fall. I followed local newspaper stories in every city he went to. Any time a paper mentioned his talk, an extraordinarily well worded person would take on the comments section using brilliant methods to severely insult/attack anyone who would make comments about Gage. No possible way these were just random hometown smart aleks.
"an extraordinarily well worded person would take on the comments section using brilliant methods to severely insult/attack anyone who would make comments about Gage."...
Magnum can you elaborate more on that one. Are you suggesting that this was coming from inside or outside his camp?
Ok, say Gage is going to be in Kansas City next week. The local paper mentions it. Comment section gets a post from some local in Kansas who says something like "gee I had no idea about this. I find it interesting". Next thing you know some clever wordsmith (from Tel Aviv?) proceeds to rip the local boy a new ass with a mix insults using scientific terms to lend credibility.
Happened over and over anytime a local paper mentioned (national media doesn't talk about the subject of course).
Yep. That sounds about right.
I've been to a number of AE/911 events, and it's interesting what comes out prior, during and after visits where the AE crowd is asked to speak. You get individuals that will start out to give a very coherent understanding of the science and then the conversation or (what you thought the person understood) "deliberately" drifts and gets misdirected from the science facts.
Much of it is obviously used to discredit as we've seen here recently on the GW Blog regarding NYCCANs High Rise Safety Initiative as an example. AE911 has done an excellent job over the years of sticking to it's technical base in the science peer reviewed papers and journals they have written to much to their credit. However many have said that they don't understand why it hasn't been able to reach the number of people that it should have by now.
Several factors contribute to that. Unfortunately many individuals, Americans in particular don't have the understanding of basic high school physics, or if they haven't been around it for many years lose sight of what they had previously learned. This is probably the function of many contributing factors besides lack of formal education and relates to what this thread is all about.
I thought one of the most important aspects of AE 911Truth's work culminated when they completed "Experts Speak Out" that brought in the clincal psychologist views of how "congnitive disonance" plays a very signifcant role in our perception of what we understand to be true when faced with opposing or contradictory beliefs which they demonstrated very well in the context of the collapse of the 3 towers.
My own experience has been the same with many professionals from different vocations and educational backgrounds. When you challenge them on the science that in many cases they know and understand to be true they will (sometimes not always) choose the fictional version of the government's narrative even if they know it is irrational because of the taboo nature of the subject matter and the idea that an elected representative could be capable of that level of deception or cover up.
Nice post. I remember well a video of a Colorado psychologist who spoke about this. Thanks for the thoughtful message.
sorry this is standard procudure, for instance you local newpaper backs obama, you write a stinging letter, full of facts well written, articulate, but the letter that gets published is by some moron, who calls obama names and misspells words. (get it so far) the paper prints one letter for one against. the same thing they do with economics experts, the smart ones who disagree with the government policy are not asked to contribute, (when dissent is needed to fill a chair its woefully poorly thought out dissent) and the supporter of government policy gets a lot of nice softball questions, the upside for being a government stooge is that with a bit of exposure you can write a book or two, and make a living out of it. you might even get a column repeating statist nonsense that will syndicate in those papers which support the president. any president really. and if you're from a presitigous college and you have the wrong opinions, they might decide to retire you next year, rather than lose a couple million in government research grants.
at the moment the tv news is a corpse which the ice has melted and nobody cares, just bury the body. meanwhile the blogosphere is the ripe young widow there for the picking.
How is this prez not impeached, for Sunstein alone? Send him and his squatchy wife to gitmo.
Gitmo is too nice, send their asses to general population in Angola (the prison or the country).
Who knows if more than half the postings here are from government guys working for agencies that hide behind acronyms. That would mean that people besides Tyler are making money off Zero Hedge.
Journalistically, its a "scoop"; but realisitically......it's a moonlanding
This is further evidence that their "truths" are nothing more than bullshit......
map the location of zh trolls as the guy earlier suggested, or at least if they are "anonymous" status
my god can it burn to the ground yet
Boy is the "Disruption Operational Playbook" the divide and conquer code book of everything we've witnessed from OWS and beyond!
Dear infiltrators,
Liberty, Article 3, Section 3 and guillotine. Discuss...
Sincerely,
One of those guys that is aware of your crimes
The longer the truth is suppressed the more extreme the reaction when it breaks free. It's a basic law of physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Free Francis Sawyer.
Suppose the whole ZH site is a honey pot, built for a certain community of opinions. One site among many used for organizing and sorting the citizenery of the planet. I have often wondered why it always says ABC Media at the bottom of every page.
.
It's called a copyright notice, pretty much standard boilerplate.
news for twitch: the entire internet is a honeypot...with 31 flavors to give you "free choice" of course.
so pick your fav flav and start lickin'.
"The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And Destroy Reputations"
Your tax dollars at work. Keep paying for them to ass rape you.
Fast twitch:
"Suppose the whole ZH site is a honey pot, built for a certain community of opinions. One site among many used for organizing and sorting the citizenery of the planet. I have often wondered why it always says ABC Media at the bottom of every page."
So big fukken deal. Everyone dies. Didn't you get the memo?
Where's a fifty mile wide asteroid when you really really need one.
Come and get me, douchebags!
How could anyone be afraid of a minion of someone named Cass? Him and Oblowjob are
Effeminate Nazis.
Yes, but a large group of well armed thugs listen when these fucks tell 'em what to do.
It does make a difference.
So be afraid, and censor yourself. The terrorists win.
What a pure waste of money.
Think of the stupidity of the average person, then remember half the population is even dumber. In terms of ROI, this shit probably ranks a resounding success by .gov standards.
tonight scott pelley interviewed schmidt of google about the internet in china. do you think he mentioned once the role of american internet suppliers in helping the chinese secret police squash dissent in china. no they had a nice chat about how the internet was going to end all dictatorships. and the added paraphrase, the people in china arent' concerned about freedom of speech and press, they want to have a say in the economic policy. we aren't happy with the economic growth.
i could not believe it, well yes i could, the media is in complete control of obama central and this should scare the shit out of you ducklings, tonight they read the manifesto to the american gulag, you can complain about the economy all the want, but kiss off the bill of rights. while the news anchor smiles and collects his million dollar pay check. the 1% are doing to your blog, what they have already done to the MSM.
the presidents plan of economic sanctions against the american middle class is a the new cold war. overthrow their tyranny.
the people in china arent' concerned about freedom of speech and press, they want to have a say in the economic policy.
+1 for sussing out & reporting on the latest subliminal newsspeak.
behold the public release of v.2.0 of The Great Firewall:
Global Blanket
brought to you by The 5Is & Friends
product development : Googlag Android Group, Inc.
marketing/PR : firstlook.org & Partner Orgs
counsel: Orwell Huxley Heller Dick LLC
bridge financing: JP Rock & Co.
public pretty good privacy password : Jobs
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"
Internet is a double edged sword
PTB need it to install the control grid they drool over
People have used it as a peer to peer communication tool, free from top down censored control, a new printing press
It's a race between the two sides
Get informed, spread information, while you can
It's a double edged sword, yes.
The other edge is that TPTB and business now rely on it too.
Imagine what would happen to the stock prices of Fartbook and Goggle if the web is shut down.
Use it to best advantage, knowing this.
Greenwald calls this unjustifiable, and it is. But it is also much more than that because these are acts of subversion, violence and war against their own civilian populations. These agencies were made for war. By subverting, misleading, and manipulating society into disasterous decisions it leads them into societal suicide. This is absolute, flat out treason.
These agencies are supposed to protect us from this activity, but sociopathic freaks like Cass Sunstein are performing them on us. Sure it's possible to do this stuff but nobody ever asked themselves if they should be spending billions of our money to do it, because they're all brain damaged and don't think like that. I would add that the new CFPB (aka 'money police' run by the FED) are no doubt doing the same things, as is any other agency that has a cyber unit.
Next month Sheriff Joe Arpaio is supposed to announce new "universe shattering" fraudulent BHO birth certificate findings as well as documentary proof of at least two official criminal frauds that have been found.... who knows. But while in the line of working on the investigation for Sheriff Joe, detective Frank Zullo recently followed a particularly nasty and persistent internet troll's IP address all the back to the DARPA Disinformation Department.
On Carl Gallup’s Freedom Friday radio show, Mike Zullo said they’ve traced the IP address of “RC” to DOD’s DARPA disinformation department.
" The Obots have gone eerily silent ever since. Why? Joe Arpaio is releasing all his investigation’s results in less than a month, during the month of March. The heavy hand of the law is clamping down on them and they just have a few days left till the curtain comes down for them." -- citizenwells.wordpress.com
This is why we have a 2nd Amendment.
No worries. NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, etc. will cover this thoroughly so that the sheeple are well informed. /s
I am not a troll - I am an inmate simply awaiting my sentencing.