Ron Paul: "Leave Ukraine Alone"

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Ron Paul via The Ron Paul Institute,

Last week Ukraine saw its worst violence since the break-up of the Soviet Union over 20 years ago. Protesters occupying the main square in the capitol city, Kiev, clashed with police leaving many protesters and police dead and many more wounded. It is an ongoing tragedy and it looks like there is no end in sight.

The current conflict stems from a divide between western Ukraine, which seeks a closer association with the European Union, and the eastern part of the country, which has closer historic ties to Russia.

The usual interventionists in the US have long meddled in the internal affairs of Ukraine. In 2004 it was US government money that helped finance the Orange Revolution, as US-funded NGOs favoring one political group over the other were able to change the regime. These same people have not given up on Ukraine. They keep pushing their own agenda for Ukraine behind the scenes, even as they ridicule anyone who claims US involvement.

A recent leaked telephone conversation between two senior government officials made it clear that not only was the US involved in the Ukrainian unrest, the US was actually seeking to determine who should make up the next Ukrainian government!

Senator John McCain, who has made several trips to Ukraine recently to meet with the opposition, wrote last week that the US must stand up to support the territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea.

Why are US government officials so eager to tell the Ukrainians what they should do? Has anyone bothered to ask the Ukrainians? What if might help alleviate the ongoing violence and bloodshed, if the Ukrainians decided to re-make the country as a looser confederation of regions rather than one tightly controlled by a central government? Perhaps Ukraine engaged in peaceful trade with countries both to the west and east would benefit all sides. But outside powers seem to be fighting a proxy war, with Ukraine suffering the most because of it.

If you asked most Americans how they feel, my bet is that you would discover they are sick and tired of the US government getting involved in every crisis that arises. Certainly the American people want none of of this intervention in Ukraine. They understand, as recent polls have shown, that our interventionist foreign policy is only creating more enemies overseas. And they also understand that we are out of money. We could not afford to be the policemen of world even if we wanted to be.

And I bet if we asked the Ukrainians, a vast majority of them would prefer that the US — and Russia and the European Union — stay out their affairs and respect their sovereignty. Is it so difficult to understand why people resent being lectured and bribed by foreign governments? All we need to do is put ourselves in the place of the Ukrainians and ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in the middle of a tug-of-war between a very strong Canada on one side and a very strong Mexico on the other. We would resent it as well. So let’s keep our hands off of Ukraine and let them solve their own problems!

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LawsofPhysics's picture

But Ron, we got debt for sale!

Cult_of_Reason's picture

Ukraine has the largest in-ground deposits of natural gas in Europe but they were inaccessible until fracking began last year.

Unknown User's picture

Whatever it is that they have we will trade it for their debt to us.  Is it a deal?

Cult_of_Reason's picture

Why NG prices are down by ~10% today?

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ron Paul is correct as usual.  Our country should have voted him in as president...  We had many opportunities.  *Sigh*

BKbroiler's picture

ZH populist nonsense. Sure, hands off, so Ukraine goes to the russians, who then use it to strong arm Europe (because of a non-interventionist policy) in to submission via their gas lines.  This prompts, among other things, a new depression in Europe, which drags the US withi it since the Fed has to come a bailin'.  

Non-interventionism is a naive policy in this day and age.  You either play the globe or you don't play.

Tortuga's picture

That's just it Bk, seems all we have been doing is playing; since the korean police action, while the enemy is chopping off heads.

Now that's naivete.

 

BKbroiler's picture

The US is not energy independent.  We are not resource independent.  Without continuing to pillage the whole world via economic and military might, we're screwed.  People might not like that, but it's the reality of our time and there's no going back, American non-interventionism never even existed, it's a myth.  

Bosch's picture

You are correct, they've obviously never heard of the Barbary Coast Wars which kicked off in 1801. 

 

 

BKbroiler's picture

Or the Manifest Destiny. or the war of 1812. Or with Mexico in 1840.  And non-stop ever since.  America's entire history is one of imperialism.  So what, our system is a good one and good systems spread.  We may have our weaknesses, and although the new ZH crowd  has this weird love affair with Putin, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want Putin in Obama's seat.  He might be a dolt but he's our dolt.  And if there's one thing Putin's not it's anti-interventionist.   I don't understand how the same crowd can like Ron Paul and Putin so much.  weird.

Bosch's picture

Makes two of us.  

If Putin was in Obama's seat they would hate him just as much, but because he's Russian doing the same shit they hate in an American everything's cool.  Because that makes it more legitimate. Or something. 

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Makes three of us.  Putin != Ron Paul.  I too do not understand why Putin-thug is popular here at ZH.

Scarlett's picture

Putin shows the vulnerabilities of the empire; maybe that's why?

blueRidgeBoy's picture

Scarlett, which empire?  Russian or American?  Or both?

Zymurguy's picture

BK,

I don't think people love Putin on here... folks just think it's funny that a red commie bastard so easily manipulates and shames our gentle president.

We don't seem to be able to control either one of them.  They both act like dictators.  The difference is that Obama fucks up everything he touches and we are suffering from it.

El Vaquero's picture

 

I don't understand how the same crowd can like Ron Paul and Putin so much.  weird.

I don't like Putin, but I do respect his abilities and I do throughly enjoy watching him make Obama his bitch.  I think that his demonstrated ability to outmaneuver people in geopolitics is what makes some people like him.  It is charisma that works on irrationality.  Or it is simply watching our dolt fail miserably while Putin does, for better or worse, succeed at being a strong leader.  People are drawn to success. 

 

But Putin is former KGB, and that should never be forgotten.

 

Now then, Ron Paul?  Yeah, I like the guy.  I respect the ideals that he seems to have stood on.

BKbroiler's picture

I do throughly enjoy watching him make Obama his bitch

Thank you for summarizing the thoughts of this whole swath of morons.  Because you don't like Obama, you want to see America fail in it's endeavours overseas.  We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward, and your hatred of the president is so blinding you actually take sides with a tyrant.  But you like Ron Paul so that makes it less treasonous,  I guess.

El Vaquero's picture

Uh, no.  Because America's endeavors overseas are largely corrupt and destructive, I want to see America's endeavors overseas fail.  US meddling is going to bring death and destruction to Ukraine if we are not careful. We are supporting a nation moving to the IMF so that it can get raped by Western bankers and the EU.  Watch the following video and take full note of what Victoria Nuland says:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y0y-JUsPTU

 

I've got news for you:  Putin isn't the only bad guy out there.  We are also the bad guys in this shitfest.  It is impossible for a lot of people to swallow, but we are one of the villains. 

Zymurguy's picture

I don't think you get it, BK.

We DON'T like seeing the US fail.  That's why we're so mad and enraged about what is happening with our country.

Obama and his academia based cabinet of wayward wannabe's just can't seem to do anything right.  There's a big difference between theory and practicality.  Their efforts are doing far more damage than good - which could be their actual goal, who knows.

silvermail's picture

"We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward,..."

We're trying to support a nation moving westward instead of eastward, so we can rob these people with impunity and without hindrance. We do not care about the opinion of these people their will and their choice. We need slaves and vassals. Our main goal - to be able to live well at someone else's expense. Not so, my friend? LOL

TheMeatTrapper's picture

@BK

Since George Washington was a strong advocate of a non interventionist foreign policy, was he "treasonous"?

Listen up you idiot fucking dolt. You and people like you have NO FUCKING business spending money we don't have and condemning my young son to a life of debt slavery so you can send other people to fight useless wars for people who hate our guts in the name of 'manifest destiny'. 

Fuck You.

Clear enough?

Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"...and I do throughly enjoy watching him make Obama his bitch."

Putin plays chess, what does Obama play (with)?

James_Cole's picture

If you asked most Americans how they feel, my bet is that you would discover they are sick and tired of the US government getting involved in every crisis that arises. 

Mr. Paul hasn't been watching enough CNN lately, they had an interestingly nuanced message for the peons on cockblocking Putin, er I mean the evil local .gov in Ukraine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

TuPhat's picture

BK, I think you are in a twisted reality. and Bosch, 1801?  Should we all really be worried about that still?

Pure Evil's picture

It just gives him a soapbox to stand on while he lectures to the kiddies.

Now listen here children......I'm the adult and you're the morons.

Bosch's picture

Just merely proved his point, no need to be worried about it.  Except that was the first war against muslim terrorists, whom we are still fighting 200+ years later. 

FredFlintstone's picture

Define "screwed". If TPTB layed out their "plan" to the American people I feel confident that the majority would choose to lump it rather than be a party to the continued raping and pillaging the world.

BKbroiler's picture

f TPTB layed out their "plan" to the American people I feel confident that the majority would choose to lump it

only until they lost their job or their Ipad.  And TPTB laying out their plan is a fantasy.   The lion won't be informing the gazelle of his intentions.  

TuPhat's picture

They are the Lion, I got that much.  But the world is the gazelle and that includes the people of the US.

FilthyHabits's picture

Mr. Broiler, faith in nothing; gives you nothing but fear.

Amazingly enough, I have faith in my fellow Americans. We are a free and armed nation. We can, and will create opportunities that will far outweigh the need for fear based controlling psycho-babble. If put to the test, we can and will create/invent ways to make energy, regardless of other controlling nations, with the ability to defend house by house.

I think what people may be trying to communicate with you is: If you stop lying, stop killing, speak the truth maybe, just maybe others wont be as angry with you.

Putting it in simple terms. Would you want to fight Bruce Lee or have a dinner with him. He was a very peaceful man, loving, centered and I would never fuk with him - I would get my ass beat. Your argument is akin to, acting like a child, through fear, telling lies to get out of trouble, without understanding that he will one day have to look in the mirror and realize that he is a punk ass bitch. I say grow up. Invent. Believe in yourself. Become independent. Arm yourselves; Heavily.

Then, try to invade, manipulate, or take something from us.

No Fu*king way.

 

FilthyHabits's picture

As ignorant as you think I may be child; You might get an asswoopin soon. Maybe you should go to war for us, I'll buy you a GoPro.

China is a Cancer ridden, toxic, financial zone of disease about to crumble. People will revolt.

E.U. is going to eat itself soon if the bankers keep it up. Germany will revolt war will follow

Africa will soon finally believe that virgins are not the answer. 50% of population will die within 15 years.

Persians will kill themselves.

Russians, now I hope Russians can just communicate with us. Hostility is not needed. I miss Moscow.

South America will just breed. At least I live in -20F Weather, you guys don't like that much do you.

 

Talleyrand's picture

"Without continuing to pillage the whole world via economic and military might, we're screwed."

What do you mean "we", Kemo Sabe?

BKbroiler's picture

I mean those of us who depend on the economy, which functions based on our conquests.

Talleyrand's picture

Then you are truly screwed.

TuPhat's picture

BK, In case you don't read ZH, let me be the one to clue you in; The economy is not functioning anymore.

tgmur10's picture

WHAT!!!!  You sure they didn't say anything on CNN.....

SgtShaftoe's picture

For your reading pleasure I have linked an article that shoots the shit out of your argument.  Remember the colonialist european nations that drew a bunch of arbitrary lines on the map of Africa to "tame the savages", and in the French's case, to "save them"?  How many millions of lives do you think are acceptable losses to engineer your centrally planned utopia?  How many children would you kill to bring about your ideal geopolitical configuration?  Really, I want to know!

The Black Swan of Cairo

http://fooledbyrandomness.com/ForeignAffairs.pdf

BKbroiler's picture

nice blog, douche.  Fooled by randomness indeed.  

How many children would you kill to bring about your ideal geopolitical configuration?

Oh you know me, probably all of them.  Children suck.  But it's not about our geopolitical engineering, dummy.  Russia is not staying out of anyone's business, neither is Iran, China, etc...   Isolationism is impossible in today's world, or at the very least, is a slow death sentence.  The few countries that do practice it do so under the protection of other, inteventionist countries.

SgtShaftoe's picture

Well if you've got such a hard-on to rewire the world, I invite you to go pick up a rifle and do the dirty work yourself.  I've seen enough death, lost enough friends and don't particularly care to be shot at anymore. 

It's not isolationism, it's called international commerce, kinda like China's foreign policy till now, or the foreign policy that was prescribed by OUR FUCKING FOUNDERS IN THE GOD DAMN CONSTITUTION!  But you're probably one of those that thinks the constitution is an outdated document.  The cowards that advocate violence and war, then call it "foreign policy" are always too spineless and limp-dicked to actually participate in their bloodlust.  That's the job for the kids to get their asses blown up.  

2 wrongs don't make a right.  This whole paragraph is likely wasted typing since you're not even able to determine with your vapid little rotten brain that the website fooledbyrandomness.com belongs to Nassim Taleb.  Jesus fucking Christ, people are fucking stupid!

BKbroiler's picture

OUR FUCKING FOUNDERS IN THE GOD DAMN CONSTITUTION!

Take a breath, man.  Of course our constitution says that.  Find one that says "we will conquer as much as possible by all means possible" for me.  The point is we've been imperial since the early 1800's, as soon as we had any power to wield at all.  Your theory is just that, and your understanding of history is not-so-good.  But there's no need to get angry, that makes it look like you're losing the argument. My point is that we have never had a non-interventionist policy in this country and that most of those who all of a sudden think it's the way to go, are really just angry that Obama is president.  Get over it, 2 more you and you can have Hillary. ;)

FredFlintstone's picture

You make a valid point about Obama altering the viewpoint of people who may have ignored the imperialism of the US. However I think 6 years of Obama have shattered the illusion for millions (more) that voting matters. The Republic has been exposed as a facade concealing a fascist regime controlled by unknowns.

SgtShaftoe's picture

I'm so glad you're worried about my feelings.  Don't worry, I'm not angry.  It's just my military character coming out. It comes out when stupidity abounds. 

Yes, we've been imperial since the 1800s and fascist since Lincoln.  We did in fact have an anti-foreign imperial government (if not counting the massacre of indians) in the beginning.  But human nature is always attracted to conquering foreign lands. I think your history education is actually the one lacking.

Ah, and the meat of your argument:" non-intervention = anger that Obama is president." 

Utter and complete bullshit!  People are angry at their soldier family members being maimed, killed and wrecked by decades of war.  People are pissed at the covert operations to topple governments since WWII.  By any fair accounting, the United States government has perpetrated as much murder as the Nazis or Stalin.  Millions of children, millions of innocents.  That's why people are pissed.  The troops are tired of being used as fodder.  The people are tired of their country's treasury being raided.   They're also pissed because the illusion of their freedom is being pulled away.  They're seeing the crime of those in power.  It hardly matters who is elected president.  They're interchangeable parts, and the real control is elsewhere. 

You don't even know what you don't know.  I'd recommend a field trip to some shit hole like Afghanistan where you'll receive gunfire and IED attacks to understand the results of your interventionism. 

For a history lesson, may I recommend:

Civilization - Nial Ferguson

The rise and Fall of the Roman Empire - Edward Gibbon

The Wealth of Nations - Adam Smith

Nemesis - Chalmers Johnson

The Sorrows of Empire - Chalmers Johnson

LocalBoy's picture

In the mid eighties the congress, on consent of the people, set a policy of non intervention into the civil war in Nicaraugua.......
So our beloved central government with the whores from Wall Street in tow simply dumped dope in our cities to fund what we would not. 

"We" have not been imperial - that belongs to the dupes and catspaws. Those who make excuses for it, that cant accept the responsibility of self government. 

 

SgtShaftoe's picture

I didn't vote for it, and there was fuckall I could do about it, so I don't agree at all that the American people had a part in it.  They've been gaming the American people psychologically for decades. 

 

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting)

Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I disagree with your first para, but your second para is the inane raving of a man who slep through the past 12 years, if not longer.

The gas lines werent in play before?  What kind of idiot could claim that?

 

Why don't you fuck off to Syria and intervene there. 

BKbroiler's picture

I might be inane but Ukraine's leader being toppled might change the rates on the gas, making it more "in play" than before.  So I guess I'm that kind of idiot.

Maybe I will go to Syria, you could come with me.  Putin's very popular there, you'd love it.  It's his kinda place, sets a fine example for what Ukraine could be if evil muricans weren't intervening.