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Meanwhile, On The Main Square In Sevastopol: Live Webcast
... The Russians are staking out their claim, after those ships which we wrote about yesterday and docked overnight at the main Crimean port, have unloaded their cargo.
#Ukraine, apparently not tanks but APC (armored personnel carrier) on the central square in #Sevastopol #Crimea pic.twitter.com/yOxWSSOeJ3
— Paolo Alfieri (@Paolo_Alfieri) February 25, 2014
Russian Navy armored vehicle in the main square of #Sevastopol #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/kpkfSNZAjj
— Pedrodon (@stopnarcotics) February 25, 2014
Then, there's this from the Guardian:
Sevastopol installs pro-Russian mayor as separatism fears grow
Moscow shows its influence in Crimean city amid fears the whole peninsula could seek deeper ties with Russia
Authorities in the southern Ukrainian city of Sevastopol have installed a pro-Russian mayor as fears grow that the Kremlin may be stoking separatist sentiment in the region.
Sevastopol's city council handed power to Aleksei Chaliy, a Russian citizen, during an extraordinary session on Monday evening while more than a thousand protesters gathered around city hall chanting "Russia, Russia, Russia," and "A Russian mayor for a Russian city."
Fears are spreading that separatists in Sevastopol, and the Crimean region of which it is a part, could use the power vacuum in Ukraine to seize greater autonomy and deepen ties with Russia.
It was not immediately clear whether local security forces would back Chaliy, but earlier in the day Sevastopol police chief Alexander Goncharov said that his officers would refuse to carry out "criminal orders" issued by Kiev.
At least four checkpoints manned by armed police were in place on major roads into the city to stop the arrival of extremists, according to local media reports.
Ukraine's interim president, Olexander Turchynov, warned on Tuesday that the country faced a "serious threat" from separatism.
And elsewhere, the following poster can be found:
Sevastopol issues this poster today, as Nazi symbols spread around Ukraine - #Euromaidan #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/lu53sZETzM
— GrahamWPhillips (@BritinUkraine) February 25, 2014
And there's this:
UKRAINE SEVASTOPOL - Russian deputy says Yanukovych is a legitimate president, pro-Russia protest. COMING SOON 1630gmt/No.932958
— AP Video Alert (@AP_VideoAlert) February 25, 2014
Live webcast:
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Another barbecue?
Bullish!
SILVER BITCHEZ!!!
Without a presence on the Crimea, Russia risks being trapped in the Sea of Azov (i.e denied access to the Black Sea).
The Crimea has historically controlled access to/from the Don and Dnieper Rivers.
From the 100 year war to the Crimea
With the lance and the musket and the Roman spear
To all of the men who have served with no fear
In the service of the King!
If you think the Ukraine might be a shit place to be in the near future, believe me, it ain't as shitty as this place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAZyirfvE_s&feature=c4-overview&list=UU-Y8tHCwNCHYzGL8iw5IOXA
Obama's Cuban Missile Crisis is coming very soon, let's see what level of confidence a homosexual president can muster in the sheeples
Well, lets see here.
Egypt, syria, jordan, and israel go on their own to build a pipeline to turkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Gas_Pipeline
Egypt, and syria are total wrecks and quatar, saudi arabia are responsible for it and have also admitted to wanting to build a pipeline of their own.
Ukraine is a huge gas transit area for the rest of europe...
Now it's a wreck too...
Anyone else see a pattern here?
The Egyptians are the first responsible for being a wrecked people. Syria has a harder case given its geostrategic position and mix of ethnicities, longstanding hangovers. Nearby Iran has Hezbollah in there wrecking it from he inside out.
Bring the popcorn! This will spiral out of control in a matter of days. You can`t just go in with the tanks in another sovereign nation, its an act of war. This will get ugly.
And there is also this:
On 5 December 1994 at a formal ceremony in Budapest (known as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances[6]), may be summarized as follows: Russia, the UK and the USA undertake to respect Ukraine's borders in accordance with the principles of the 1975 CSCE Final Act, to abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, to support Ukraine where an attempt is made to place pressure on it by economic coercion, and to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council.
Join Europe? Ukraine hasn't got enough debt if its own?
A video surfaced a few days ago of Russian Military vehicles traveling the highways to the Ukrainian border. Didn't make too much news in the Western world.
That looked like a platoon, it wasn't an invasion force. Look at all the "giant" US material movements that are on youtube from the 2nd round of Iraq - those are generally single brigade/regiments not even single division sized movements.
You're probably right, but there's less to move when it's in your back yard.
Semper:
Not a flag officer, huh?
Russia is reinforcing its legally leased base to prevent the munitions and arms from being taken from the base in the turmoil. They are protecting their legally held property and working for peace . . .
Care to prove that untrue?
-30-
By stationing APC's in the town square? Seems a bit of a stretch.
So it's protecting their legally leased base by shipping weapons there?
Obama and Netanyahu simply will not stand for such a provocation to their own interests. And please don't point out the hypocrisy of the American base at Gitmo in Cuba... that's different...
Tell me Zero - what are Obama's "interests" in Crimea or Ukraine?
Netanyahu's?
Something to do with global domination and faster delivery times...
Why don't you read up a little and figure out where Victoria Nulands' "Fuck the E.U." comments came from and what happened subsequently... here I'll help get you started...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/25/the-us-played-hardball-against-uk...
Peacefull protesters poke out the eye and cut a hand off captured policeman
http://oko-planet.su/politik/newsday/231572-evrotvari-vykololi-glaz-i-ot...
Nice dickishness, cunt. I'm unconvinced and unimpressed. Are you capable of expressing a coherent thought on the matter yourself?
Hint: there are no such interests in said region. This is the meddling of the Global Banking Empire, not a nation state on the other side, nearly, of the globe.
Now go make me a sandwich.
They are one and the same... or haven't you noticed?
Now enjoy the shit sandwich!
yes. you don't protect a base, during an insurrection or coup, at the base. A perimeter would be nice.
By the way, Crimea is an autonomous province and I suspect has asked for a Russian troop presence.
The East and Crimeans do not want to be the new government in Kiev. Do they have a right to self-determination, or not?
Russia offered a plan which would essentially have meant Russian and EU investment and trade deals. The EU rejected it.
The EU and NATO has been forcing the issue and destabilizing the country - not Ivan.
But Ivan isn't backing down here. I guess it's up to the American public if it thinks a war over Crimea is reasonable.
I don't think it will happen.
Johnny:
"A perimeter would be nice." Thus the reason why the vehicles are beyond the base's lines . . .
OR
The photo was taken while they were driving between some points that we don't know because we don't know the city's lay out. So when I looked at the cirty square in the live webcast I didn't see any military vehicles in the square.
I agree that the US public will not support a war for the Crimea. They don't even know where it is.
This is the EU's baby - let them print more euros to pay for it.
The said part of that is that our criminally inspired FED will front dollars to provide them with the ability to do so.
-30-
I agree with most of your post but this part:
"I guess it's up to the American public if it thinks a war over Crimea is reasonable"
is pretty much laughable. Our govt doesn't give a fat rat's ass what "the public" thinks about anything. Our "leaders" think ONLY in terms of political expediency. Will it help their cause? Will it help re-election? Absolutely nothing else matters, right or wrong, good or evil; what am I, the politician, or my party gonna get if I do this is their only guide.
Didn't the CSA have the same problem with the US, 1860? Wasn't Lincoln 'just trying to protect' it's legal base in the middle of Charelston harbor? Gee, what happened there? Didn't the south tell Lincoln NOT to stock the fort? Then what happened? Russia may have some legal right to their leased property, but this smacks too much of them just wanting to pick a fight, beat back the peasants, and install their own puppet. Kind of like the US does all over the world.
The problem was/is Nuland conspiring with the agitators. Putin has a legitimate gripe to that extent. The 200 troops are a tripwire - Show the townsfolk the Russians care. Any mob that tries to get too frisky will be in serious trouble. Any force dedicated and/or competent enough to overrun them brings the Russian army in from the north.
Sad thing is, I can see both sides of this. Stalin murdered millions for collectivization. When Hitler's troops rolled in they were greeted with flowers. The "forest war" of the UKP lasted until 1956 for very good reasons. Russia is not popular in west Ukraine for a lot of reaons.
OTOH you have the ethnic Russians in the east. Much less a part of the "old Ukraine", much more sympathetic to Russia, and more wary of the basket case the EU has become. Siding with the EU for them is a bad deal - their industries would be subject to all kinds of arbitrary idiocy from Brussels, while Moscow is less burdensome (in some ways).
No. it's not necessarily an act of war. And the shot callers aren't going to execute an act of war (at least not yet).
1) The Russians have bases in Ukraine - that means there are binding treaties in place in regards to transit rights, irrespective of who the legitimate head of State in Ukraine is (plus a ton of MIC factories (which means more transit rights).
2) Who the head of State of Ukraine is right now is legally ambiguous, which would actually imply that there has been no change in the head of State. (Read Art. 111 of both the 2004 and 2010 Constitutions).
3) Budapest Memorandum - Holy of Holies & Irony of Ironies, it gives all the foreign signatories the right to send in troops in order to maintain territorial integrity- so what happens if Sevastopol declares independence - the Russians can legally send in troops (but so can the Americans) which is why Russian railroad lines, and what is happening on the Russian side of the border (unreported) is so critical. Assuming trains move west at ~80km/hr how many hours will it take to infiltrate 2000 Russian tanks and legally seize all territory east of the Dnieper river, and how long would take the US's far slower and more limited air and sea lift capacity to position the same amount of men and material in Western Ukraine? There is a lot of shit going on right now that simply isn't being reported. The question is how long ago both sides started dusting off the Cold War ground invasion of Germany plans and swapped maps...
So you declare independence and everyone else gets to invade you... somehow that doesn't seem right.
To bad America is still at war against Al Qaeda in so many other regions...
/s
Urban et al.:
WTF is with you people??!!
MAD - MAD - MAD!!!!
There is not going to be an armed showdown over the Ukraine - or anything else involving Russia, US, or China.
NOBODY is prepared to cash in all the chips and commit suicide for the sake of a bunch of bankrupt Slavs.
What drives you people to harp on your hot war lunacy??
-30-
Damn straight there won't be a hot war. Nobody in their right minds will take on the Russians on what is practically their home turf. EU/US will back down.
That's not harping on hot war- there is a vast difference between a showdown and a conflict. The fact is that Russia will use the various tools at its disposal to protect its borders and its interests. The military is only one tool, but it doesn't turn on a dime. Both sides draw up war plans with every conceivable enemy, and none of them (except MAD) can be instantly implemented.
In a related vein, actions speak louder than words. Mr. Lavrov and Mr. Ed can talk up a storm, but Mr. Ed will take Mr. Lavrov far more seriously if his intelligence reports indicate that the Russians are preparing (and therefore implicitly prepared) to follow through on words with actions. If Mr. Ed is being told that the Russians are in no position to intervene, Mr. Ed will presume he has more latitude than he would otherwise. Nash, Harsanyi and Selten didn't win an award in memory of Alfred Nobel for their advancement of lunacy, it was awarded for the advancement to dismal science by the application of game theory.
Well said.
I think this crisis is related to the Syrian crisis and it all has to do with the Arab States and The United States muscling in on the European oil/gas market.
Don't forget China.
Yup, that's pretty much what I already said: 4471442
PIIGS --> UPIIGS --> TUPIIGS (U=Ukraine, T=Turkey)
"When the NatGas + Oil flows from the ME to the EU via Turkey, it will cease to flow via Ukraine: "Check Mate, Boris" was my prediction.
Wax on, wax off. Pipe On, Pipe Off.
location. location, location... if link below fails: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/04/28/the-map-shows-palestinian-loss-of-land/
'Palestinian Loss of Land to Israel: *1917 (the reason for WWI?), **1946(WWII) , ***1947 (Israels`Independence War(?)s); 1948-49 (Armistices` Agreement+Moar ?), ****1967 (Six-Day War), present 2012... '
http://1.bp.blogspot/-wJU_qG8j_HI/UmgTXIZ8F6I/AAAAAAAAGfk/xxMZrrXTw4w/s640/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469.jpg
now the pattern with all it's nascent historic chronology and bibi's, faux`naif serendipity... misplaced, or lost and found in a gutter on Tel Aviv's-- Rothschild's Bvld.... "Levant Basin Province Assessment Areas" http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/leviathan-gas-field-levantine-israel/ Note: Click on Right Top Panel Map
{(Gaza, Palestine?)(EU broken Cyprus, and Turkish military might, not to mention Erdogan's fallin out since Israel commando raid on humanitarian ship for gaza prison camps(?))(EU broken'd [can Greece and Turkey reconcile?]Greece)(Lebanon nearing a Civil War?)(Syria stuck in ahard place)(Tukey fighting for it's Political [ussa gulen] Life with USSA special alQueda CIA`agent... saudi businessman-- the eminent financier of terroism and global jihadi--- Yasin al-Qadi!)}
http://www.ahistoryofgreece.com/worldwarII.htm
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=turkeys+cyprus&qpvt=turkeys+cyprus&FORM=IGRE#a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasin_al-Qadi
jmo
Obama's Cuban Missile Crisis is coming very soon, let's see what level of confidence a homosexual president can muster in the sheeples
________________________________________________________
'American' ability to fabricate a cocoon of fantasy to shield from the most immediate reality always stands impressive.
In this case, it is probably boosted by the presence of a negro in Washington and 'americans' cant take it that a negro match them in the display of 'american' talent.
Putin's Cuban missile crisis is coming very soon. Not Obama's.
That is Russia that is being besieged, not the US. Most obvious fact that 'americans' cant take in order to preserve their comfort of mind. That is the kind of things the greatest thing to have ever happened to humanity, 'americanism' leads human beings to blind themselves at.
Summary of the situation:
- A government whose legitimacy by elections was acknowledged by 'americans' was prevented by 'american' nations to deploy the necessary forces to subdue an insurrection. In similar cases, 'american' nations have proven they do mess around. 'Americans' lock down the insurrecting area, encircled it with the military and get the work done.
-The rioters were supported by foreign interests, that deployed agents on the ground to organize the forces and help the progression.
-The rioters were drilled in urban warfare and included numerous nazi factions.
Despite this situation, 'american' nations simply deprived a legitimate government of the opportunity to defend itself. That was the proverbial 'american' right to self defence.
This situation is not yet cleared that 'americans' are stepping up the game by questioning the legitimacy of russian bases like the one in Sevastopol.
It is a matter of years before 'americans' start calling for Ukraine to join the NATO.
The 'american' negro in Washington is sweeping the floor with the white power icon Putin who is losing ground to 'americans' as no other russian or ussr president before.
Yet 'americans' must dismiss this obvious fact.
The situation is cruel to 'americans' as they are facing the vanity of the 'american' covenant.
What 'americans' are doing in Ukraine is traditional 'american' business, same stuff they have been doing since 'americanism' became a reality on 1776, July, 4th.
'Americans' keep crushing people left, right and center. But what is new, 'americans' no longer receive their share of the loot. Up to now, 'americans' were used to be bribed in ignorance, 'american' increased advance to hegemony usually translated into a better life style for 'americans'.
Today, 'americans' keep crushing but the biscuits are no longer there. Where is their share of the loot?
One way to cope with the brutal reveal over the reality of the 'american' covenant is to take shelter in fantasy.
The fantasy is that 'americans' are being trashed everywhere. They are losing in Ukraine, Putin is beating down Obama, that is why them, 'americans' no longer received the due share of the loot. Because the loot isnt there.
The reality, though, is that 'Americans' keep advancing, they are dominating more and more the world. But it no longer comes with bribery to its citizens the way it did in the past.
Tough, tough world for 'americans' to live in that 'american' world is.
.
This assessment is correct.
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. All those years when the big scare was sold of the commies blobbing up via Domino Theory machinations, and yet it turns out that the US and its vassal states habe been the ones knocking over the dominoes.
Ignore the red, white, and blue rhetoric and instead examine the results. Take an inventory of the number and location of Russian military and naval bases in foreign countries and you'll complete the task quickly. Do the same for US bases in foreign countries and you'd better make some coffee because you have a long list to enumerate.
Elections and "democracy" are good when the outcome favors the US and its vassals. Any different outcome indicates the presence of evil which must be stopped for the sake of humanity.
Even a proper election outcome "democracy" must be closely watched. When such a government makes decisions which favor the interests of its own country over the interests of the US and its vassals, it can only be explained by a manifestation of evil which must be eradicated promptly.
Ah, but the rioters were downtrodden people yearning to breathe free, just like 1953 Tehran, 1960 French Indochina, 1980 Afghanistan, et cetera.
The rioters were freedom fighters and the cause of humanity required providing them with training, advice, and five billion dollars.
The government lost legitimacy when it rejected the embrace of debt from European Union US vassals in favor of a better deal from evil empire Russia. What priorly would have been self defense then became oppression and, of course, the big threat to humanity of "killing its own people".
Somehow it will be revealed that the Sevastopol base is the first domino in the resurgent blobbing up of Big Poppa Commie.
All part of the recipe, baked into the cake from the beginning.
Being A Global Force For Good® costs money. But hey, it's all for "democracy" and humanity reaps the benefits, so don't criticize the Good Guys.
Ye should've kissed the Blarneystone before ye went out there, aye?
PR Guy, I get your point, but that is actually the type of place I enjoy. It requires being used to cold and wind, which I am. The Northern Islands like Shetlands and Faroe Islands, or the Northern Coasts of Scotland. I love the cold fall weather up there and the grey skies and wind whipped seas. It requires a certain type of person, but hiking these coasts in Sept. when the gales begin has been a favorite vacation pastime for me. I knw most head for sandy warm beaches, I prefer the grey wilds on the North Atlantic and North Seas.
@Herd Why would Russia be trapped in the sea of Azov? They've got a couple of hundred km of the Black Sea coastline. They could build a new base at Novorossiysk
tanks upcoming...
Those aren't tanks, theyre APC type vehicles (armored personel carriers). Not a lot different than what theyre giving small town cop shops around America (unfortunately).
Unless there is a threat that requires them (opposing armor or anti-tank weapons) - - -you wouldnt think the Russians would roll main battle tanks.
Meanwhile in Israel, an unintentionally hilarious photo of Merkel.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bibi-merkel-photo-makes-waves_783416.html
Rumors were that Merkel was the result of a Stasi medical experiment using Der Fuhrer's sperm...
Fucking HITLER [do know that, among other things, he burned my waffles this morning]? ~ bastard!
Godwin's Law
Godwin's Law was demonstrated within the article when they displayed the Poster that had the Flag with a Swastika on it and made it an issue to point that out.
You did read the article, right? You did...Did you?
LOL that was the best laugh. That is the Money shot of the year
Thats why she went for a doctorate in quantum chemistry.
It wasn't Hitler's sperm that was used, although they did manage to save some DNA from a dingleberry found between his tightly squeezed butt cheeks. That would explain the rather pinched look on her face.
I have the full story on the Merkel artificial incemmenation. I will post it if you want it.
Feel free.
Funny on soooo many levels.
that really is miraculous, fuck that nazi bitch and that zionist child raper
Embarassing to be laughing my ass off at work and not even being able to show to the colleagues what I'm laughing at, or explain why it is funny.
There Will Be Blood
They scuttled their fleet the last time shit got serious, a real pussy riot.
Ukraine near default, needs $35 billion, see Mish post
Special Olympics!
Nah...just coctail hour.
Tyler can't take it, the EU won, won BIGTIME !!
Yeah, just like Libya and Syria.
How's that turning out?
I think the partitioning of Ukraine was agreed with Russia before this started. There is no way in this fucking world they could have not seen this coming. They simply cannot be that stupid.
Now, the timing was probably an up yours from Kenyan guy to KGB guy over Syria. But the partitioning was probably negotiated and agreed upon months ago.
President Wilson would have agreed. National self determination bitchez.
"They simply cannot be that stupid. "
I remember a fella talking about an easy victory in Iraq and the oil paying for itself. A man with no military experience. A fellow traveller of the cunts who had been inserted by a foreign power in the Office of Specal Plans.
But, the notion these men, who worked for Netanyahu, might be loyal to Israel first, would be deemed "hate". But they were a necessary but not sufficient cause of the deaths of very many people.
That tends to offend me enough to not worry about someone's inane, bizarre sense of what is racism and what is direct observation of abject, treasonous cuntery.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/01/lie-factory
Go play your childish us/them shit somewhere else!
Sounds like you haven't joined a team.
The EU has some general elections coming up with a massively building anti establishment slant. EU might "win" Ukraine, might lose the UK too, and Holland and who knows where else. Troll!
I don't think Holland will leave the EU, the UK might, and should. Now let's see if the UK (essentially a mini-EU) will let Scotland go, or if they will use EU-tactics to keep them in...
Getting harder all the time, keeping the hope of a one-world government alive.
clearly you dont see that this is all part of the one world govt plan. everything is.
No, not everything. There are forces pulling in the other direction as well. Who knows how things will eventually shake out? Increased complexity requires increased energy - a one world government will be exceedingly complex. We've had about 500 years of consolidation of human society into nation states and then supra-nation states; might go on, might collapse.
You don't look so good.
that was sarcasm on my part spas. back to the sarc tag (sigh)
C'Mon Man!... I expected more out of you :-)
ok lets pretend im serious. so spas, what makes you think it would require more energy? with the advent of the information revolution, wouldnt it be much easier to control the masses through technological advances such as AI, robotics, etc? the one world govt actually looks like its closer to achieving its goals.
My bad.
Without your smiling face, I just couldn't tell.
There are no winners in the EU, except for corrupt politicians.
Precisely.
Nigel Farage says it's by design...
If only. Sadly, the reality/truth is that the Central Banksters (CBs) win. Each time, every time. Till... "heads roll". Figuratively or literally.
p.s. Unlike most, I prefer the unvarnished truth over wishful thinking or other forms of self-delusion.
If the Ukraine has any sense or balls about it, they will stay united and use the leverage to reinvent themselves as a powerful hub for both east and west!! But these bullshit blue/red team cheerleaders will probably succeed in breaking shit up, issuing some new bullshit currencies, and holding some crony elections, backed by kangaroo courts and big corporate interests!!!
Ukraine, throw off the shackles and issue a currency backed by gold and silver, and your people will be free, throw out the IMF/EU bankers and Russian bankers and use the natural gas infrastructure and your superior strategic location as an asset to your national aspirations and your citizens!!
Good Luck!
And just where does a broke, basket case country go to get gold and silver?
Oh man, I don't have the time to post everything possible, but come on, where did the colonial people get their gold and silver in the late 18th century in America??? where, they of course incentivized their population to trade in gold and silver, they demanded foreign commodity and export deals where in gold and silver!!! Ohhh fuck it!!!
The point is.......gold and fucking silver is already money dipshit, start using it!! Small government, huge cilivian markets, and tourism, trade, very low taxes, im sure a gold and silver "pass thru" fee, would be in order paid by both Russia and the EU for all that Nat Gas delivery, would help too!!
It's called fucking REAl capitalism, I know most humans on this planet don't recognize it these days, because they think every fucking thing has to be sanctioned and overseen by big brother government, but news flash........it doesn't!!
Oh but I know, times have changed right, things are "more complicated" now, we've all evolved right! Globalization blah blah blah!!!!!! Like the roman fucking empire didn't know a thing or two about globalization, or the British empire after that!!! Geeeezus when are we going to have the next "awakening" on this planet, please let it come quicker!!!
Pie in the sky, is all you a blabbering about, but come back to reality.
Say you are suddenly in charge. You relize you have a $100 economy, but you only have $5 in gold & silver.
What's next, Comrade?
Demanding to be paid in gold or silver is just great. Paying in gold or silver, maybe not so great. Last I checked, commerce was usually a 2-way street.
If I were in charge over there I would excise a Natural Gas Pipeline Transit Tax...PAYABLE IN GOLD....AND retirement of Debt.
That is where they can get the Gold.
Blow up just one Pipeline. The Russians and the EU will understand the implications.
The fact that it sounds good and feels good is all that really matters...
<sarc>
[sigh] If only. Alas, poor Ukrainians were not raised/bred over the centuries (by their Feudal and Religious masters) to be Buyers & Sellers (Merchants), the way the Turks have.
We've all heard of a Turkish Bazaar. No ever heard of a Ukrainian bazaar.
If the Ukraine has any sense or balls about it, they will stay united and use the leverage to reinvent themselves as a powerful hub for both east and west!!
They have a most strategic position...They hold the CHOKEPOINT for Russian Natural Gas. Blow up just one fucking pipeline.
Then they can tell both the Russians AND the EU to go fuck themselves.
The EU starves without Natural Gas.
The Russians starves when they cannot sell Natural Gas to the EU because of a lack of capacity for delivery.
All that it will take is detonating one lousy Pipeline.
They hold the Geographical card. What they do with it is up to them.
Tyler can't take it, the EU won, won BIGTIME !!
when nato had dumped 2000 tons of depleted uranium on ukraine soil.
when they have deconstructed all history.
when they have like syria and libya reset the year to zero.
when all the gold has been rothschild liberated.
when bp and chevron rule.
when monsanto help the people of this massive bread basket,help them not to starve.
when the un steals 1000s of kids for the jewish blood sacrifice.
maybe then will the eu have won big time.
oh we are kidnapping goyim children and sacrificing them at the alter?!?!? why wasnt i told about this???? such fun!!
.
If you'd stop throwing away those invitations to Bohemian Grove and actually attend, you'd know about these things.
Sheesh, kito, get with the program. You can't expect to dominate the world if you're going to procrastinate.
shit man, i thought it was junk mail advertising for a time share program. i didnt know!!!!
The EU and Russia are in a very precarious place, Mr. Wilson. Ukraine is a Geographical Chokepoint.
Doesn't that map look like the artery branches near the Heart?
when nato had dumped 2000 tons of depleted uranium on ukraine soil.
All the more reason to detonate a Pipeline...
when they have deconstructed all history.
All the more reason to blow up a Pipeline...
when they have like syria and libya reset the year to zero.
And will do the same to the Ukraine unless Ukraine acts agressiviely by blowing up some Pipelines...
when all the gold has been rothschild liberated.
Again being indebted and enslaved breeds resentment and all the more reasons to exact revenge...
when bp and chevron rule.
When they cannot transport their goods for sale then bankruptcy is assured...
when monsanto help the people of this massive bread basket,help them not to starve.
If Monsanto tries there it will fail...
when the un steals 1000s of kids for the jewish blood sacrifice.
What does the word, Holocaust, mean in the Hebrew Language? "Blood Sacrifice" perchance? The Jewish people act out revenge upon the goyim for World War Two...The people of the Ukraine will be no different...
maybe then will the eu have won big time.
The EU and Russia have lost. No Mr. Wilson. The Ukraine has won...if they are clever enough to realize it.
funske:
I couldn't help but notice you and the so-called Tony Wilson used identical first lines for their respective posts.
First Conclusion: Another example of gov paid multiple personalities working the same site.
Second conclusion: They have no creativity whatsoever . . .
-30-
.
Third possibility, which is the pattern I've seen: Tony Wilson includes as his first line the part of the comment to which he is responding.
Third possibility, which is the pattern I've seen: Tony Wilson includes as his first line the part of the comment to which he is responding.
Fourth possibility. That weed you're smoking is making you paranoid. I agree Tony copy/pasted the comment to make it clear waht he was responding to.
Sheesh
That's pretty damn small for an APC. Or do they all have to ride on top?
If one was looking at the open end of the 20mm, Its size would increase by an order of magnitude.
It's a BTR-80. 8x8 amphibious APC (notice the high mounted exhaust and intake)
Crew of 3 and holds 7 others. 7.62 and 14.5 guns.
I guess there hasn't been a sense of urgency for the Russians to build MRAP vehicles yet. Give it time though.
Real men wear helmets not berets for a reason, and those things are headbangers. The trade-off is that they are a smaller target and more maneuverable than an MRAP (particularly in an urban environment), they're also a lot less expensive and more environmentally friendly for the tree hugger or logistics/purchasing freaks (and blue-horseshoe has recommended them a couple times).
That said there is legitimate debate about strategy and tactics (my brother preferred his multiple platoons of half a dozen slow up armored Humvees with the big target sign painted on them, I always preferred three or at most four locally sourced beaters, different tools for different jobs-- but we're both still alive, so either can work).
That's cute, Urban.
I guess you were fortunate enough to never need any lads in silly hats to extract your ass from some.. unpleasantness that some salt of the earth ignorant cunt nco got you into, then.
Good for you. Glad you and your bro are in one piece. No bullshit.
But just the same, you shouldn't talk like that, though. It's just a little rude is all.
I hate the word "need" - on occasion it certainly was desirable and potentially might have yielded better results. But it is what it is (to paraphrase Butler- Joseph, not Smedley). More tactically, there are two drawbacks to large unit employment when an acceptable result can be achieved with a small unit- higher turnover which decreases performance and cohesion- including between the ranks, and increased casualties (on both sides and combatant and non-combatant alike). The smartest strategist I ever worked for/with was a foreign graduate of CGSC in 1964, but he never would have succeeded in his endeavors without achieving a superior level of professional cohesion among his staff (his right hand and core deputies have all been behind him for decades and followed him from the military into government and into other endeavors). In regards to Gen. Douchebag I think we would both agree that whether due to personality defect or some inherent inefficiency in the US general staff organization development implementation- he falls well short of being a cohesive and effective leader. It's good that he set a goal for success in the banking sector upon retirement, but he has failed miserably at adding enterprise value and building those organizations, regardless of however much money he may have pocketed in the process. I don't have anything against either NCOs or USMA grads- I was grudgingly promoted from rebel to iconoclast because of demonstrated results, and then similarly bought myself the title of eccentric- sorry if it comes across as rude sometimes at FightClub. I do, however, have issues against certain individuals (Gen. Shitsacki is another one, but more for his butchering of the VA- which he, of all people, should NOT have failed at, than for his dysfunctional and queer promotion of the whole beret thing - which was really kind of gay).
The last APC didn't fare so well against a barrage of molotov cocktails.
"The last APC didn't fare so well against a barrage of molotov cocktails."
Indeed. How much does APC and everything in it cost and is thus lost in such incidents? What happens to all the live ammo incide after the temperature reaches a certain point?
How many trained soldiers does it require and are thus lost in such incidents?
Contrast the APC costs, personnel requirements, etc. to the costs and personnel required to throw a case or two of discared beer bottles filled with petrol and stuffed with rags...
It costs less in reclaimed garbage and cheap petrol and dirty recover oil to incinerate the APC and everything and cook/suffocate everyone in it.
Asymetric Warfare: learn it, love it; live it.
Useless talkings
Terrorism is a tool of war, as are APCs. A war on terror is like a war on bombing.
I have heard that the US APCs/MRAPS do have automatic fire suppression systems. Perhaps the Russian ones are the same? If so, instead of Molotov cocktails, they'll have to upgrade. I sure wouldn't want to have to hit a Russian APC again and again and again until the fire suppression system is exhausted. That would be a very good way to get killed. Instead, let me offer another idea:
Remember the "sticky bombs" in Saving Private Ryan? Yeah, well instead of an explosive, use large amounts of thermite and put it over the engine or just put a few over the roof. Normal fire suppression systems are going to have a difficult time with lot of thermite going off. It has its own oxidizer, and I bet it would melt through the armor of an APC within just a couple seconds if you set off a big enough mass of it.
Not as cheap as a few gallons of gas and some empty bottles, but it is still a lot cheaper than an APC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBSc9ZXWAuw
Look man, I see no one else has addressed this, so let me say a couple of things.
Fire suppression systems are not designed for the outside of the vehicle. They are designed for the engine compartment and the cabin, so yeah, it is a very good practice to avoid strapping anything flammable to the outside of your vehicle.
If the outside of your vehicle is burning, it is not an absolute, immediate emergency. You can keep operating for a longer time than most might think, so long as your air intake is not sucking up straight smoke. Even then, you can just shut it off and still last a very long time.
The burning substance on the outside might actually burn out without much effect, unless your tires catch on fire, but that takes a hell of alot more than people think. In that case you probably need to break contact, burning tires and all. Wheeled vehicles have run-flat and/or self-inflation capabilities, so you will be able to roll. Of course, tracked vehicles do not have this problem, and even if your track pads did catch on fire, you can quickly put them out by simply moving a little.
Another serious concern is any external fuel tank, but forget Hollywood, in these vehicles, most external tanks have armor plating over them and are designed to be resistant to exploding or burning from relatively low-level action such as small arms fire, and molotovs. Many armored vehicles have internal fuel tanks.
If you do not have the ability to "button up" and close hatches, your TC (Armor) or the "gun" (MRAP) is going to start getting Kentucky fried, and that will affect you inside the cabin very quickly. I am talking about humans exposed in the turret, burning.
If you are buttoned up, you can still breathe inside, and the heat of the external fire will not cook you for a long time, but God forbid some jackass in your crew sets off the cabin fire suppression system (or it goes off automatically). You will find yourself in a demented, mad scramble to dismount and escape the Halon, even if there are 5000 heavily armed and angry Ukranian Nazis firebombing your vehicle.
Only because Militia did not return fire.
It all depends if you use it to its full potential, and actually use the 20 mm machine gun that comes with it.
20mm=canon, for taking out stuff, not people.
Yet it will still blow the ever living shit out of a person and will have a very profound psychological effect on everybody else who sees what it does.
I sure as fuck wouldn't want to get shot with one.
Fuuuuuuck no! Though it might be preferable to being gutshot by a 38spl and dying over a period of 2 or 3 days.
Oh, and for future reference, it looks as though that's not a 20mm but a 'mere' 14.5mm.
That's still bigger than a 50BMG.
So 'don't bring an elephant gun to a squirrel hunt'? I'm not sure if that is the way the old adage goes...
Dr. Engali: "The last APC didn't fare so well against a barrage of molotov cocktails."
Armor works in concert with trained & co-ordinated infantry, to protect each other and advance on/destroy an enemy.
Bottomline - - - cannot assume that what happened in Kiev will be repeated in the Crimea with regular Russian army and Spetnaz (special forces) troops deployed.
Thank You!
I was about to go off on a rant.
I really should be tolerant of people who do not know better, but some people actually think that these vehicles are used to slowly drive up to crowds and get massively molotov'ed!
It has been my experience that it is difficult for many Americans (the U.S. type, anyway) to differentiate between a police action and a military action.
When you use soldiers, you are not exactly conducting a police action, and that is not how these vehicles are employed. A well executed military operation with mounted and dismounted elements can bring some devastatingly serious heat.
Unlike the inept Ukranian police, APCs and IFVs use standoff. If they are ever that close, they are blasting through at high speed and crushing people. They can go through every single pathetic barricade I have seen in the press coverage of Ukraine's "Orange 2.0".
The vehicle's heavy machine guns (or cannons if applicable) can provide either "support by fire", or they can "attack by fire". If the engagement is within small arms range, 9 times out of 10 there are dismounted infantrymen manuevering, utilizing the base of fire provided by the APCs or Infantry Fighting vehicles. In a close urban fight, it is a perfect certainty that you will have a dismounted element.
I sure as shit am not talking about throwing fuel in a bottle with a burning wick at a slow or stopped target that is 20 feet away and not mowing you down with bullets.
gallistic - - - and thank you for your post, it was detailed and well written.
Yes, as you wrote, such a force can be very potent. In addition, they can employ attack helicopters, and helicopters for quickly inserting troops into strategic locations. One can imagine the contingency planning & prep being done now.
Hopefully, it won't come to that. But the Russians probably see control of Sevastopol & the region as vital to their long term survival.
The Russians just stopped in to refuel and get a "go" order of burgers and fries for the crew....
The Crimea is historically Russian after all, I believe.
It used to belong to the Turks, but was lusted after by the Russians who needed a warm water port and regularly invaded with the region changing hands frequently until the late 19th Century when they finally wrested it from the dying Ottoman Empire and only got a really good grip on it during WWI. Without a warm water port they were landlocked for half of the year and this region is absolutely vital to their interests. They will certainly fight to keep it. This region has been fought over for at least 300 years. It belonged to the Crimean Tartars before they invited in the Turks.
"They will certainly fight to keep it. This region has been fought over for at least 300 years. It belonged to the Crimean Tartars before they invited in the Turks."
300 years ago, all U.S. lands belonged to indigenous peoples - Indians. But the British was needed these lands and for this reason they destroyed the native population, via classical genocide.
Can't blame that one on the British. We did our best to exterminated the indigenous ourselves after the Civil War, long after we were a nation. The same thing happened in Austrialia, Latin America, Polynesia. In fact, it is so common I can only come to the conclusion that it must be instinctive in our species. It makes perfect sense. If you're going to take over someone else's territory you kill off as many of the current owners as possible in the process. You take their women, if you don't have enough of your own, as the founders of Rome did with the Sabine women, but you do your best to eradicate the indigenous. After all, who is there now to say this is not our land?
"Can't blame that one on the British. The same thing happened in Austrialia, Latin America, Polynesia. "
But you can only blame the Russian, is not it? LOL
Old Testament Biblical instruction: kill all the Non-believers.
New Testament Biblical instruction: love thy enemy.
Looks like the Old Testament faith continues.
In other words, it was hotly contested. Just as it is now. Slavic and Turkic people have lived side by side for centuries (not always peacefully, but neither always at war)
"In other words, it was hotly contested. Just as it is now. Slavic and Turkic people have lived side by side for centuries (not always peacefully, but neither always at war)"
In other words, all land in the world, at different times, was hotly contested.
Gotta give it to the Russians, they don't f-around with rhetoric and bullshit negotations...they just occupy.
Occupy Sevastopol!
Dude, that is brilliant! We need to get all the Lenin (Lennon) worshipping, hygienically challenged trust fund babies onto planes and enroute, pronto.
Position their new "tent city" correctly and we should get a delightful thinning of the herd before it's over.
Get the meme out onto twitter. Tell them they'll get a free Che tee shirt if they show up before Friday.
+1 for "hygienically challenged"!
Cue the drum circles to loosen their bowels
I think the state department and Obummer should declare Russia a rogue nation who obviously has killed at least some of its own citizens (somewhere along its long history) and under our rightand and implicit responsability afforded by R2P (right to protect), we should invade Russia......Oh shoot, what am I saying;...they actually do have an army. Scratch that......Sarc off.
It's not nice to fool with Mother Russia.
I would bet that we don't send a carrier battle group into the Black Sea considering the fact the aircraft carriers are obsolete weapons of war. Power projection with carriers doesn't work when the adversary has sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.
draw a range of 1000 nm around Sevastopol and get back to us on that whole "US carriers can't project power there" theory
Nice use of Nazi swastika...very subtle!
And nice 1940's Soviet art style. You don't suppose they are trying to tell them something, do you?
Yeah...I'm still waiting for the poster of Putin with radiant sunbeams emerging from his shining head like a halo. Maybe gazing wistfully off into the future.
Forward!
You mean thunderbolts coming from his arse.
Haven't there been some WH/MSM propaganda photos of Obozo with halo, wings, etc.
"Nice use of Nazi swastika...very subtle!"
The Russians lost millions of people in 'The Great Patriotic War'.
Such talk & symbols definitely hit a nerve with them, particularly with older people.
Was sad to hear of the damage to the memorial in Kiev to those men who died stopping the Nazis in WW2. You couldn't see it without feeling reverence (even though it has the Soviet era propaganda aspect to it).
The ground in that region has been soaked in blood & tears.
The casualty numbers don't lie. More humans died in the Russian theater than in the rest of the war.
How many millions of Russians did the Soviets kill,
by their own homeland security department?
"How many millions of Russians did the Soviets kill,
by their own homeland security department?"
And while America was friends with Stalin and received grain from Russia at a time when people in the Soviet Union, died of starvation.
But I think you do a little at school and for this reason confused between the concepts of "Russia" and "Soviet Union."
Hungary bitchez... it's a chess match but team Obozo is still playing checkers...
"Hungary bitchez"
Not really. I just had lunch.
"Obozo is still playing checkers"
Obama is still playing with HIMSELF.
Fuck chess! It's an old game mastered by autistic weirdos. Why do we put such credence in this fucking board game! It doesn't teach you anything... It just teaches you chess.
Poker on the other hand....