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Tesla Enterprise Value Just 25% Below That Of General Motors

Tyler Durden's picture


A well-placed Morgan Stanley "Utopia" upgrade here, a 'gigafactory' promise there, sprinkle in a 37% short-interest and what do you have? Telsa is surging once again (up 17% today)... breaking above a $30 billion enterprise value - just 25% below that of GM, based on Bloomberg's data.


Tesla is now 60% of Ford's enterprise value and over 75% of GM's...


Chart: Bloomberg


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Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:55 | 4476243 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Right, because they are the "future".  Anyone know who will be providing the fire insurance on that new battery plant?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:58 | 4476257 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Unicorn Dung & Cold Fusion Powered Lithium Ion Gigafactory, with technical support from TEPCO & Satoshi

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:58 | 4476265 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

Neither company is worth it.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:04 | 4476292 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

But Tesla delivered an incredible 6900 vehicles last quarter with their incremental cost of production INCREASING ON A PER UNIT BASIS.

Once they are able to grow lithium in lithium orchards, off to the races.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:04 | 4476309 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You would think that the miners would eventually take the fuck off wouldn't you?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:08 | 4476334 jcaz
jcaz's picture

LOL- exactly-  go ahead, build the biggest battery plant in the world, that's just awesome...  Now go tell the Lithium miners you need 30% more production out of their asses- poof!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:59 | 4476625 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Just wait till these buyers get the bill for a new battery in 5-years and government subsidies have finally rolled off. 

I'm always unhappy when the next 75K major tune-up is required, but at least mine doesn't cost around $8K.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:18 | 4476741 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

in hell you NEED a flaming fireball for a vehicle


so the valuation is of course more than fair

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:03 | 4476933 Pool Shark
Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:10 | 4476345 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Once they start putting in engines that can run off-grid in these things, with an on-board energy source that's load-n-go, and a low maintenance design with an established supply chain for replacement parts, forget about it!  The sky's the limit. 




oh wait

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:24 | 4476434 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It makes me so proud to live in the country that exports "Tweets" to the world; instead of Diesel-Electric locomotives. Sigh.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:47 | 4476579 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Let's not forget that their strategic partner on this gigabatteryfactory2come, Panasonic, is essentially de facto bankrupt at the present time.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:26 | 4476709 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Perhaps Panasonic could start growing strawberries like its old competitor Sharp electronics does.!

Funny how all the Japanese electronic companies that dominated their fields went bust in a few years.  Sony is abandoning the TV business.  But the export driven economy of China will be more resilient?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:06 | 4476949 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



So, what will Mt. Gox wind up doing?...

[maybe they'll sell role-playing game cards...]




Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:38 | 4476820 TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

They probably went with Panasonic because they got some sort of desperation "save us Elon!" deal out of them.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:01 | 4476927 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

It doesn't matter! This is a Potemkin factory we're talking about. 

Elon Musk is laughing at you, Barack. Please know this.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:00 | 4476921 StarfishPrime
StarfishPrime's picture

I keep hearing about these per unit costs increasing and wonder.. does anyone have any information about GM, F, etc. early growth problems? Did they also have issues with increasing unit production costs in their early years?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:29 | 4478534 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It depends on the model. IIRC, all things being equal, and given the tremendous capital costs required to build a factory, acquire the tooling, assembly line, robotics, etc., economies of scale put break even point well past 85,000 vehicles sold annually for a minimum of 7 years (so 595,000 units).

And the factory has to be able to switch to building different models in essentially the same platform (see reasons VW/Audi went with new MQB program of platform sharing).

This varies on per unit margins, etc., obviously, but is very approximate way of looking at economy of scale needed to recover massive initial capital outlay.

With Tesla, their last quarterly report indicated unambiguously that their costs per unit of fabrication WERE RISING, which if true, is quite the vexing dilemma to have, especially since their new hopium growth model to profitability rest on dramatically ramping up production and sales globally, and given that they are floating a Unicorn Plan to build a gigafactory able to produce enough lithium batteries (where basic math presents an issue as not enough raw material is available to do what they claim they will do) to meet their production/sales growth target.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:59 | 4476275 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Until they release a pick-up truck, they shall be considered metrosexuals around here.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:11 | 4476353 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The overt and implicit sexuality in Big manly truck commercials for metrosexuals used to be hilarious.

I was in the silly con valley when the city-trucker boom exploded.  Bang...suddenly everyone had a Tacoma....


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:03 | 4476936 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

A fucking Tacoma??? 

Nobody who hauls actual stuff drives a Tacoma in the Midwest. They're for the owners of large non-union subcontractors.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:18 | 4476396 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Fuck it! If an app with 60 employees and no revenue is worth $19 billion, then why not! It's all fake money anyway....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:42 | 4476547 Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

I think Zuckerberg must've been trying to bang one of the secretaries there, and wanted to impress her.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 18:16 | 4477544 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture


"bang one of the secretaries there"

I always figured Zuckerberg was more like Sheldon Cooper.

Any Big Bang is theoretical...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:03 | 4476651 verbot
verbot's picture

good point.. i know the article and general discussion over mr.musk's endeavours center over valuation/marketshare all fomenting offtopic opinions for some reason..

general motors has to intentionally "wound" every model they make due to the engineering excellence of the 21st century. how many fine engineers went mad over having to ruin perfection of design to fit a planned model of sales?....

tesla is missing the chance to take over the industry from such poor stewards as general motors ford etc.... this is where i look to mr.musk and ask how did Henry Ford change America? not one exotic supercar at a time and history is on my side. as a potential investor i would ask why tesla is prevented from making downscale hybrids and commuter electric vehicles for the MASSES? 

why are there not enthusiast kits from tesla to encourage homebrew solutions and application of electric and electro-motive hybrids all across america?

finally i ask why are no other "analysts" covering the factual gaps in the tesla story?

history is our guide and tesla is more akin to diamond reo if one needs such analogies.

if you read this Elon let henry ford guide you..


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:27 | 4476777 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Or put a gasoline motor in them and drop the price a tad.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:15 | 4476989 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"as a potential investor i would ask why tesla is prevented from making downscale hybrids and commuter electric vehicles for the MASSES?"

Because, with the battery alone costing $30 - $40K, the "MASSES" aren't going to pay $50K for a car when they can buy a perfectly-good gas-powered vehicle for less than half that price.

Face it; electric vehicles are a boutique product for a niche market of quiche-eating elite.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:15 | 4477265 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

To justify valuations, they should start selling BitCars (the fastest way to travel between Farmvilles).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:56 | 4476245 Ulterior
Ulterior's picture

Bitcoin dejavu

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:56 | 4476248 666
666's picture

Personally, I'd rather own a Tesla than a GM product. And I've already got an asbestos suit to drive in!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:26 | 4476448 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

And you understand that you will actually have to replace the battery, and you know how much it costs? right. you took all that into account? As far as the General Motors product goes; do what engineers do, and buy a Ford. They're actually built right.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:38 | 4476517 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Renting cars over the years shows a distinct difference. GM is junk and Fords are not too bad. Still prefer Japanese autos though.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:47 | 4476576 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

That's right; but the rental fleet is a maximum of two years old; after that the GM stuff starts showing the results of their "let's save another 25 cents, Alfred, we don't really need a "high quality bolt"; that's when you really get buyer remorse.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:24 | 4476763 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

i like the way GM builds their eletronic engine control modules cases with dissimilar metals

then jams them in the front fender above the plastic wheel skirt

and voila, splashed with salt, promoting more service and parts replacement dollars



edit:the cases split open , the bolts rot off, and the little cover over the eprom rots right off in case nobody knows that

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 01:17 | 4479089 Vice
Vice's picture


Oh yeah, you mean Found On Roadside Dead.

Didn't realize you were speaking in acronyms!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:28 | 4476783 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

GM products are UAW products. Not buying anything made by a domestic union, given the choice.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:57 | 4476251 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Dow 46,000 just around the corner.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:01 | 4476289 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

yes, and not in a good way...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:58 | 4476258 max2205
max2205's picture

But the forward PE is 2, its a buy right

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:58 | 4476261 DavrosoftheDaleks
DavrosoftheDaleks's picture

Is TSLA debt free outside of the normal inventory financing stuff?  Do they have any publicly traded debt?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:16 | 4476389 e1618978
e1618978's picture

Balance sheet looks pretty strong, but not quite good enough to count as "debt free".  $840 million in cash + receivables, $1.6B in total debt.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:55 | 4476607 DavrosoftheDaleks
DavrosoftheDaleks's picture


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:59 | 4476270 slotmouth
slotmouth's picture

Critical Hype!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:00 | 4476278 superflex
superflex's picture

The idiots at CNBC are hot on TSLA since Consumer Reports gave it a 99/100.

Unbiased my ass.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:01 | 4476285 Spungo
Spungo's picture

To be fair, Tesla does make awesome products that people want. GM, not so much. Which company will go to zero first? I think GM will go bankrupt first, so it's not really a shocker that GM and Tesla have market caps in the same ballpark. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:02 | 4476301 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

So, GM goes bankrupt first, then Tesla goes bankrupt?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:27 | 4476458 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Exactly. Congratulations on seeing through the hype.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:43 | 4476548 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

At least I know now the value of a company should be calculated on the nearness temporally of its impending bankruptcy to the impending bankruptcy of GM. Extraordinary financial advice.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:39 | 4476532 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

So, GM goes bankrupt first, then Tesla goes bankrupt?

When GM goes under it will be sold off as parts. When Tesla bites the dust it will be liquidated.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:09 | 4476339 adr
adr's picture

Really, people want Teslas? They sold 22k cars, most of which were booked presold and not delivered. Econuts and your average wealthy psychopath like Tesla, mostly for the smug factor, but the car has a very derivative design and probably the worst designed interior of all time. The giant square computer monitor in the center console is a "brilliant" design choice.

The model X may not happen and if it does it will just cannibalize sales of the Model S. By the time the $35k Tesla hits the road just about every car manufacturer will have plug in EVs and hybrids that will eat Tesla's lunch.

Wall Street is running a classic pump and dump on Telsa right now and Elon is perfectly happy with that as he cashes out his shares for billions.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:29 | 4476469 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Two brilliant young engineering majors at Oxford, in England, have just started trial manufacturing of the electric motor that'll make Tesla's look like Model A's; and yes, the major Japanese Manufacturers are visiting them as we speak.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:42 | 4476545 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Motors and not the problem with electric cars, it is the battery. Until you come with a breakthough in battery storage density and recharge rate, EVs are dead in the water.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:51 | 4476594 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

What you say is true; but this motor enables a simpler more effecient drive line; and hence a somewhat cheaper vehicle; thus a better business venture; to the extent that the buyers are willing to put up with the battery problems; which as you say, are large and apparently relentless.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:41 | 4476846 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I would believe soemthing could come out of the Oxford area because most of the F1 teams are there and the tecnhology is very good.

SillyCreep Valley exports tweets, Facebook page views and spyware - software and hardware that will steal any secret that you or your company has.

I foolishly turned on Limbaugh during lunch in the car and he is talking abbout Apple's shit hardware.  He is Apple freak. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:03 | 4476302 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

If you happened to be a pathological optimist who planned to sell your "investment" to a greater fool, which stock would you rather own:  GM or Tesla?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:05 | 4476314 EtTuEtTu
EtTuEtTu's picture

I'm too slack to juxtapose them on a chart; but the bullish case has Tesla vehicles sales growth rate as greater than the Model T, or the iPhone from v3 to present.



Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:06 | 4476319 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

It's encouraging to see that you can be valued at 30 billion by Wall Street, while not actually making any money whatsoever.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:09 | 4476340 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re;  valued at 30 billion by Wall Street

Well, this isn't really just a Wall Street problem.

This is a gambling problem.     What we call "Wall Street" is just the casino.    The mob takes their cut, but the gamblers and their pathological optimism sets the price.  

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:31 | 4476476 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Keep a stiff upper lip, don't forget your Solar Topee, and march resolutely forwards, Smedly, and the world is yours.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:12 | 4476359 Spungo
Spungo's picture

"So, GM goes bankrupt first, then Tesla goes bankrupt?"

Yes. Tesla's current ratio is 2.2 according to yahoo. GM's current ratio is 1.31. Tesla sells high end cars to people who tend to become wealthier during recessions (sitting on huge amounts of cash then buying everything at a discount). GM sells vehicles to the poorest Americans, the people who are most affected by recessions and rising interest rates. Tesla could see some decline in sales during the upcoming crash, but GM's sales will fall off a cliff completely. 

I wouldn't buy either company, but I hope Tesla survives. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:12 | 4476367 dbTX
dbTX's picture

Another Delorian moment ?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:38 | 4476828 EtTuEtTu
EtTuEtTu's picture

At least Delorean had the (in)deceny to be face deep in blow, Musk made his money via quasi-usury (paypal).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:14 | 4476378 venturen
venturen's picture

rumor is the FED will declare Telsa TBTF and gve them access to the FED windows...or is now called loading dock?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:16 | 4476387 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Unless Tesla develops a hybrid they will fail and go bankrupt.  

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:24 | 4476437 adr
adr's picture

In the next year the BMW i3 and i8 hit dealerships along with the VW E-Golf. Volkswagen might also bring the electric Up to the US. Then you have the electric hybrid hypercars like the McLaren P1 and the Porsche 918 Spyder.

In the volume market Tesla can't hope to compete with the likes of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and the rest. Kia is going to have an electric Soul, Mitsubishi will have a plug in Outlander. With no dealer network people will not feel comfortable owning the car because there will be no reliable service centers. Your local mechanic isn't going to touch a Tesla. The competition will force Tesla's margins into the low single digits.

The market for luxury electric cars is going to be very crowded and the luxury market is very fickle. As soon as there is something with more street cred, the old product is abandoned at breakneck pace. Two years of i8 production is already sold out and it makes the Tesla model s look like a Chevy Cruze.

Wall Street doesn't care about facts or real business. The entire point if the stock market is to fleece people, facts get in the way of that so they are ignored. Wall Street says Tesla is worth $350 a share so let it be done.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:31 | 4476482 forwardho
forwardho's picture

I am beyond amazed at this and others.

It serves as a window into how much liquidity is chasing the market.


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:53 | 4476601 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yes. everywhere you look you're reminded that it's a bubble stock market; there's really no doubt about that.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:59 | 4476629 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

wait untill they all head for the exits.


I have got to think the only people who are buying here are shorts covering or being forced to buy em in and funds buying with other peoples money. 


Seriously, we all know Testla is one of those stocks that can easily go limit down any day and gap open down another 50%. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:49 | 4476878 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wow. Two years of the BMW i 8 production is sold out?  Stunning looking car.

BMW supposedly has an i5 in the pipeline as well.

I am not a huge Prius or Toyo fan but their batteries last long than I expected.  They do degrade.  I know someone who owns one and they slowly degrade.  The fuel mileage is nothing special either.


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:30 | 4476473 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

and GM is worth? and Tesla California is worth?...whatever the Fed says it's worth.

The Global City Imperative: The Power of Self Absorption

Empire focuses on the past, what the majority can see, assuming it is a guide to the future, statistical extrapolation, until it can't. All advances are the result of extending vision beyond the willful resistance and expectation of an insecure majority, seeking safety from an unknown future, nature.

Memory is time created by switches. The universe is essentially noise, chaos, from which order is perceived, in dimensions. Static bits may be employed as constants in another dimension, variable current allows bit division by zero, and two bits can make a switch, or any number of switches you want. You don't need miniaturization.

The Bay Area is the empire's latest and greatest prototype for the future, the past, looking back to New York and London, driving RE price inflation with a facade of tourism breeding tourism downhill, taking primary resources in the opposite direction for international trade with other global cities doing the same, driven by a spy network out to control all transactions globally, Wall Street of the West, passageway to the East, crashing global economies stupid enough to accept the false assumption of fiat money, hollow inflation.

(Wiki: The Economist Group is 50% owned by Pearson PLC via The Financial Times Limited. The bulk of the remaining shares are held by individual shareholders including the Cadbury, Rothschild, Schroder, Agnelli and other family interests as well as a number of staff and former staff shareholders)

The Internet is being employed accordingly to trade in personal information, competitive knowledge advantage eliminating privacy, that's it. The bait is entertainment in the form of gambling, sex, movies and other forms of consumption, misdirection, nothing new. No one collecting its paper inflation had anything to do with building the communication bridge they are exploiting.

The city can drain and refill the indoor city pool and drop 10 million gallons of water on the golf course if it can arbitrarily raise water rates by 500%, granting outlying areas their own water back with an extortion mark up, if it has the lowest tap and the pumps. And if the slaves are dumb enough to use its money, they will work harder for inflationary deflation of whatever assets they have remaining, until nature responds decisively.

The empire answer is always an artificial environment, a war on climate in a glass house, until it’s too late. Each iteration separates humanity from nature, making it a spectator, replacing the natural feedback loop with itself, self absorption. At the end of the iteration, those who graduate are those who marry to raise children to do the same, seek the future, and the city destroys itself.

Empire proliferation of specialists normalizing extortion is no accident. The consuming majority benefits by stealing from the individual producer with initiative, casts the latter out for noncompliance, replaces fact with ism mythology ingrained since preschool, and cannot be held accountable under majority rule. Only the individual is accountable, for system failure, ensuring no change in the process, brilliant!

In city school, you are stupid if you think before you act, listen to your parents, or don't do the stupid sh- everyone else is doing. In city college, you are stupid if you are not good at lying, cheating, and stealing. Only criminals get caught, by not joining a peer pressure group to avoid scrutiny under the law. Those prisons are not full of white and blue collar criminals creating artificial scarcity.

A civil marriage between law enforcement, RE price inflation, and public education, willful ignorance, cannot raise your children. You cannot know why your children are here and their goals must be accommodated. Every plan hatched outside of marriage fails every time. Plan to adapt accordingly, in real time, because nature overwhelms the majority attempting to control it, in real time, despite the majority's every attempt to ignore the obvious.

Implicit addressing, the matching algorithm, solves a lot of problems in life. With it, you can wire right around dc, leaving it to compute itself, and dc cannot escape itself unless you choose to let it do so. Your children correct your false assumptions, bridges to the past, and build new ones to the future, for their children to examine.

If you build two bridges ahead, it doesn't matter what the majority does, because it is always trapped in a woulda-coulda-shoulda prison of self-absorption, analyzing the past, unable to adapt in real time. If it seizes your work and you move ahead, the majority falls further behind. You decide whether the majority lives another day.

With 60 miles of coastline, my own schedule, and the top floor of the port administration building at my disposal, of course I was the majority's enemy. Taking my crew on a fishing charter, with food and beer supplied, on the empire's clock and dime, was the last straw. They had no idea that I had the top floor of Navy Headquarters at my disposal, and the port demolished the maintenance department, in favor of another empty hotel.

No one can tell you how to marry or raise your children, because they cannot know why you are here or where you are going. You can expect your children to test your false assumptions, to make integral and derivative decisions transparent. Their function is not to conform to standardized empire tests, and your function is not to feed them to law enforcement if they do not.

Technical advance, automation, has once again convinced the majority that marriage is no longer practical, except as a means to advance socially. The result is always self-centered single people in civil marriage always negotiating a compromise, falling further behind. Nature doesn't negotiate and it doesn't meet you in the middle, but it will let you think you have conquered it, until it doesn't.

Marriage is not about compromise, no matter how many times single people pretending to be married tell you it is. Marriage is about agreeing on new goals, developing common priorities, to become one, and working diligently toward them, away from the past, toward whatever future you want to share together.

Without intelligent labor building capital, there is only inflation, falling living standards, income inequality and economic collapse. Single people, in civil marriage or not, cannot make the rules for marriage, no one can, or you get what you see, a cluster-, slaves from the past telling the next generation of slaves what to do next.

The majority can employ as much software, as many robots, and all the derivatives it wants; go to the gym, apply make-up, go on another diet, or buy a Tesla; issue all the paper it wants and offer up as many scapegoats as it likes. Empires are resistors, and resistors have their uses.

Both the past and the future are whatever you choose to make of them, because Empire History is a lie, through and through. Raise as many Hitlers as you like. "If we stop doing things, won't that make us dumb?"

You might want to rethink education, or not. The do-gooders, belonging to peer pressure groups themselves, are worse than the evil-doers, because their answer to false hope is false hope, do as I say not as I do. The evidence of faith is love, acts of faith. Is democracy empowering the community on Ellis Street?

Without original experimentation, there is only compliance to the past. The point of instrumentation is not replication. Why would you leave the experimentation to the morons in ivory towers? What is the Fed doing now? I'll take the kids the empire doesn't want, the ones that want to work, to find themselves in the future.

The military poses no more threat to labor than someone working out at the gym poses a threat to a laborer. Reverse engineering doesn’t work because the empire is already two bridges behind when it begins, to go backwards. The only difference between today and 2007 is the part of the majority going over the cliff, waking up too late, again.

All labor has to do is not show up and the majority kills itself, because it spends all its time synthesizing artificial scarcity, presenting lower quality and higher price as the value to be emulated, to accommodate growing extortion, until it hits the wall of diminishing returns and collapses. Automation simply accelerated its demise.

Think for your self, and then act, to learn to think. Walk onto any campus at any grade level and look around. Look at the assumptions of any police force anywhere, neighborhood by neighborhood. Individual freedom is not a function of property, authority, paper, shiny metals, or anything else a peer pressure group covets.

The majority is waking up 50 years too late, to the fact that a constitution is not a check on government. Take a look at government’s market share and the value of its economy adjusted for lost purchasing power.

What is your price to belong? Which way is the future, the exit/entrance to the solar system? What is heat's relationship to time? What is a parallel pole?

“We shall give this rebellion a thorough trial. We shall permit it to run its course…during this brief interlude between eternity past and eternity future, called time.”

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:37 | 4476512 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Is it fair to compare a car company to a finance organization....wait...GM still makes cars?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:37 | 4476514 The Most Intere...
The Most Interesting Frog in the World's picture


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:44 | 4476560 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Some Light Sport Aircraft can run for an hour on a charge.

If that can be done I suspect that electric anything is soon to be passe.


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:45 | 4476567 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

This is nothing more than Obama/Bernanke paying back supporters.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:03 | 4476652 delivered
delivered's picture

It's deja vu all over again. Just like in the late 1990's, the sky is the limit for any of these new, high flying, wonder companies that are going to change the world overnight. Don't worry about competition as growth in these markets will never end (and provide more than enough room for new competitors). Another recession/collapse, not an issue as the world's CBs have "fixed" all of the problems in the finance/banking world. Consumers, no problem here as they will always find a way to spend, save the day, and have ever increasing optimism (at least as reported by the government). Housing, the eternal source of "free money" as prices will continue to increase no matter what the economic conditions as the correction from 2008 through 2010 was simply a "one off" event that will never happen again (as remember, home prices in the US always go up). We live in utopia now and never have to worry about another economic correction as TPTB have it all figured out for us.

I would love to implement a bear investment strategy against the likes of Tesla, Twitter, FB, etc., etc., etc. but while I'm afraid to be long in this market, I'm scared to death to go short. The powers working against bear strategies are just too strong right now in the US market as just the slightest news, deal announcement, PR, etc. sends a stock to the moon and the shorts to their grave. You would think that eventually economic fundamentals would take hold and investors would come to their senses but this always takes longer than anyone anticipates. Until then, its just another day of market mystery and mayham that even Scooby Doo, Freddy, Velma, Shaggy, and Daphne won't be able to solve. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 18:00 | 4477471 falak pema
falak pema's picture

empires love their conquistadors.

They back them to the hilt once they have attained visibility and status of Legion commander for Emperor and empire.

But when the Empire starts hollowing out from the middle then the Legions are left without back up, in the forest of barbarians who become their enemies there where before they were just sheeple consumers. 

Think Legions in post combat stress disorder or investors in bubble euphoria when the floor collapses under their feet.

Titanic turns to Medusa raft.

Lets hope that Tesla can produce a true business plan.

God knows the world needs a new energy paradigm for electrical and transport sectors.

Even if its late its better than the fossil fuel conundrum persisting as the third nail in humanity's coffin along with the financial and digitalised prisons already in place.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:11 | 4476705 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Lithium Catalyst: This Week Is Tesla Lithium Battery Gigafactory Week. 

 Tesla brings the spotlight to the Lithium Battery industry and Lithium as strategic commodity. Numerous reports have shown that further rapid production development by Tesla Motors is impossible without the advance in production of Lithium Batteries. Only economy of scale can bring the cost benefits allowing Tesla Model E for electric cars mass market to happen. Tesla Model X roll out was affected as well due to the shortage of Lithium Batteries. Elon Musk replies to the challenge in style with the announcement of the Lithium Battery Gigafactory with still mysterious partners involved and a lot of rumours about the talks with Apple.
  Lithium batteries mass production means much lower prices and it will be the new long awaited catalyst for Tesla Motors and Electric Cars market in general. Situation will be even more interesting with serious development of Lithium Power Storage Batteries for Wind and Solar industries. Elon Musk's foundation of Solar City helps to bring this story up to the scale as well.
  AutoGreenBlog reports:
"The production volume is expected to be at least 30 gigawatt-hours-worth per year. That's more storage than all the lithium battery factories in the world combined produce now."

   It means that only Tesla's Gigafactory will take all Lithium supply allocated today to Lithium Batteries and the production of high purity Lithium will have to double. Industry insiders know that Nevada in no way is able to produce even any close amount of Lithium required, so it will be taken from international market.

Lithium ETF LIT is breaking out to the upside after the long consolidation phase and double bottom reversal in 2013. We are finally reaching the stage we were writing about for years here, when security of Lithium Supply will become the main priority not only the price. Companies like Ganfeng Lithium from China were quietly rumping up its production facilities to meet upcoming Lithium demand and acquiring strategic stakes in Lithium developers like International Lithium with projects in Ireland, Canada and Argentina. ILC.v has waken up recently in the market and we will monitor the developments next week. Junior miners with solid Lithium projects and access to the Capital with strong strategic ties to Lithium industry end-users will be the beneficiaries of this new Bull stage in Lithium market.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:18 | 4476742 tempo
tempo's picture

disposing 100 million batteries per year, no problem (lead/acid very sweet)

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:19 | 4476745 Wags
Wags's picture

Chevy & Ford each make & sell more pick-ups each month than Tesla sells in a year. Yet Tesla is woth a gazillion dollars?

BTW if it wasn't for California Air Pollution Board Eco-Credits Tesla would be a flop. . And why do I have support wealthy indiviudally with a $7500 & $2500 Fed & State Tax credit? And why should I watch a single driver tooling around in a $85000 dollars car in California's HOV.

Crony Capitalism

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:27 | 4476776 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

There are winners and losers..   just "survival of the fittest" bling.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 23:28 | 4478761 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Low interest rates from QE has also kept payments on these overpriced toys reasonable. When rates rise Tesla may become part of history.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:49 | 4476881 thefirstabomb
thefirstabomb's picture
All this talk about their battery innovation is a load of crap.  Battery technology has been the anchor slowing down tech innovation for years.  I would be more excited if they actually come up with some ground-breaking new battery technology that lets them hold a much larger charge or at least charge at a much much higher speed.  Until then, I feel like it is just a pump and dump (hoping to dump it to apple)

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 16:31 | 4477042 yogibear
yogibear's picture

If they can keep the stock hyping and MoMoing with the Elon Musk garbage they can surpass the value of Apple and XOM at some point.

Just everyone jump on and take the ride up. 


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:04 | 4477212 jtlien
jtlien's picture

Waiting for someone to put the new Toyota hydrogen tank in a Camry ICE.

Fill it with Ammonia.   This will give a car at 1/3 the cost of the Tesla, with ICE range, with potential refill stations everywhere.   The ammonia will burn to nitrogen and water.

You can yank out the cat converter and use the money to buy the tank.   Most ammonia in US made from nat gas, not 50% coal like tesla electricity.   No need to mine one of the rarest elements on the planet (Lithium).


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:16 | 4477269 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'm short since friday at 195 and I need a hugh....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 23:24 | 4478718 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Good luck, it is a shit stock. Hope you make it to the other side. I live in the Midwest and I have never seen a Tesla car on the road. The price this stock is selling at is stupidity on steroids!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 19:27 | 4477916 InanimateCarbonRod
InanimateCarbonRod's picture

Nice call Mr. Jonas.  Or shall we call you Mr. Henry Blodget!  Is it 1999 again?  Yet another reason why the CFA is worthless.


Tue, 02/25/2014 - 23:20 | 4478732 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Seriously! I started out commenting and writing about Tesla with stand back fascination but now I must throw a flag. Talk about overvalued, this stock rates right up their with the other jokes of the day like Twitter, Amazon, and Facebook. A fifty fifty chance exist that Tesla will not even be around in ten years.

When all the hoopla ends, the question is whether larger competitors will simply overwhelm and crush Tesla, or will Tesla instead position itself to grow and maybe take over a competitor to help propel it forward. Remember this is a field where many have failed, one great example was the Delorean. More on the subject of Tesla and Elon Musk in the post below,

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!